I did exactly the opposite - I didn't take a promotion that would have accelerated my FI path because it meant leading a team and there are members of that team that would have drained the life force from me and would have violently stomped out my desire to live. The mental toll that would have taken on me would have been too much. My family tried to convince me to go for the role by saying "just don't let it get to you" and each time I have to deal with those difficult individuals, I remind them that my life would have been like that every single day . I have never been so overjoyed NOT to advance my FI path!
Thanks for sharing! And that's a perfectly valid decision. It's definitely not _only_ about achieving FI - this is our life we're talking about, after all. We all need to know ourselves and what we truly want (and don't want) to do.
Not only could I positively imagine a future of not working, the reality now of not working is even better than I imagined. I never dreaded having to work. That would have made the working part unbearable. It’s called work for a reason, but you don’t have to hate it. And the delight of imaging not working drove me to prepare when I was ready to FIRE. It’s been 4 years now and I haven’t regretted retiring early for one second.
A big reason for me for RE was to get away from PIA co workers. So no love loss for me when I left! Wife and I were a couple of DINKs making good money 20 years ago and got crazy aggressive with saving and investing. Also paid off the mortgage in 5 years. This was all before and during the Great Recession so we were buying loads of stock funds at super cheap values. Retired a few years ago at age 53 and have no regrets!
Sometimes friendships fade when the primary reason you are together changes and you move in different directions. The same thing happens when you graduate high school and friends that you spent every day with move on to other things. You may both be going to college but you're having different experiences and you are each developing new friendships.
yea, I hear ya about the friendship part. It happened to me and my wife post FI. We found we also need to keep our FI journey to ourselves when making new friends because they have a strange reaction and there's a feeling of resentment or something. And when they don't know our history of honest independent hard work to get there (our parent's weren't rich), they make assumptions that lead to strange comments from them on the occasion. So we're trying to navigate new friends and just having a hard time discovering how we meet like minded (FI) people in our area with whom we can be open in our conversations to be true friends.. but it seems like they also don't want to talk about it since they've experienced the same situations. Appreciate any advice.
I get zero fulfillment from work and I'm all about the FI, realistically I'll be able to hit it at 60 with saving 50% of my income for the next 11 years. Those 11 years can't pass fast enough.
Sorry to hear work is giving you such poor returns from a fulfillment perspective. Are you then all about the RE as well? Or do you plan to move into different work once you're past FI?
Very candid discussion on FI. I’m 63, a RN, and not close to my retirement goals. I am working on getting rid of debt, moving to an area with a lower cost of living, and also want to consider a better job with greater pay and flexibility. I’ve been overlooked for years at my organization for growth positions. It’s frustrating and this discussion is motivating me for sure. Thank you.
Jasons biggest let down was also my biggest let down when leaving my employer -I can relate! Having worked with a small staff for almost 20 years, the fun and personal daily exchanges weren't enough to parlay in to life outside of the company. I think people just lead busy lives and the fallout is that you become out of sight out of mind. No hard feelings. Sort of. haha
Great video guys 👌 alot of information for people to learn.. I started my saving journey with ETFS when I was 20 years old.... I'm soon to be 35 in couple months and happily now retired... the money I get paid from my etf dividends more then covers my lifestyle and any future inflation...life is beautiful if I can do it anyone can. Discipline with saving is absolute key
Great content! I have to say I was in the right place at the right time. Saved aggressively from 1996, 2021. Many down years the first 15 years the last 10 years went up and rode the wave. 100% growth mutual funds. Shut it down at 58, wife at 55. Have 60% Roth and 40% pretax. Made around 6 figures jointly for those 25 years. Took risk off the table when we retired, 30% Cash 70% growth mutual funds, to ride out any bumps till I hit FRA. Enjoying FI!
New job every 2-3 years helped me tremendously at the early stage of my career. I had fun and learned a lot in different gigs. My pay doubled a few times allowing for a faster path to FI(and RE when the time is right) Great advice!
This was a great episode. I wonder if part of the chsnges in relationships with former work colleagues is a co-worker leaving to RE makes them look at the decisions they have made and are making and it makes them unhappy and resentful? I imagine it has to cause some of that.
I hear you Jason about not being able to keep in touch with old colleagues /friends and even close friends who live apart from you, I find it is the same for me, and I have now built new group of friends and OK with it. Also even with old friends as you and they change we seem to have less common interests thanks for another great episode
Jason, really appreciate your open discussion. And appreciate that you and Lori have set your own path which is non traditional. My FIRE plan is to work another 3 years at a very large tech company to solidify my finances and then move to a startup AI for fun. Trying to determine if perhaps I can make this shift earlier.
On the other side of professional and financial success, with a certain amount of years under your belt, many find they experience what Wayne Dyer called “the Shift” from a life driven and focused on acquisition and achievement to one driven and focused on meaning and purpose. Your conversations seem to be offer a good look into the Petri dish of this transition. Thanks for sharing!
Great episode, thank you! I made most of my FIRE-money after selling a company I co-founded. Probably not a recommended path, but I can very much relate to many of the reflections you guys did here. We did have a number of employees that got some money out of it as well thanks to taking risk in the way you did Jason.
Good content per usual. I dont think what you went through with work colleagues is very suprising. As someone who worked abroad I found this out very quickly. The bond you share is your work and the rest revolves around that. People also invariably get tired of hearing about things that dont impact them directly. Sad fact if life but its reality.
Having spent 30 years in same company (A Dinasoar 🙈) I have seen many people retire, some were very popular, some not, but in all cases in just two weeks nobody ever mentioned them , and in months 99per cent of any regular contact was over , and sadly that is the way it works. When we meet it great but what keep us together is gone, and it's kinda sad🤔
You guys are my favorite FI podcast. I just find your discussions so relatable to my life experience and journey. I am retiring later this year and I'm really excited about it. I feel well-prepared having listened to your many conversations. Thank you!
Great episode, enjoyed the comedy relief of the 'review' 🙂....for fun, please do an episode or short reading the most comedic ones! I'm sure there are more than a few.
Dear both, I really enjoy listening to you from Germany. This is not a topic that is at all common in here, even the idea of retiring before your regular age of 60s are something very rare. And people would give you funny looks if you talk about this , that’s why I need to listen many American channels;) I really appreciate both sides of FI because you are super honest and transparent about how it is. This friendship fading is something I totally expect as well, as everyone is replaceable at the workplace and they will forget about you or your service years in the next days you left after a nice farewell party if you are lucky;) so my question is and maybe an idea for a next episode how do you make new friends ( especially Jason) moving to a new area after reaching FIRE and basically not having that natural social connections like work. I would be very interested to listen to that and another idea how is your day/week/month/ year looks like , travels you make, new experiences you make etc, you name it :) thanks for being you !
FI was always my only goal.....RE was the eventual reward. I got laid off early in my career, and even though finding another job was not that hard at the time, the feeling pissed me off enough that I swore I would no longer be a slave to debt or working. Luckily my wife agreed with that plan, and 24 years later, we both exited the workforce at age 55. We had worker-bee careers in tech and consulting, but nothing with stratospheric $$ potential. Two other guys at my office also retired early within a few months of my departure. We found out about one another's RE path my accident (I ran into one of the guys at an RE seminar....that was interesting), and it was fun to discuss future plans with them. We still get together for lunch.
Thank you as always for your content. I suspect you will both discover that you could have retired earlier. I’ll bet that your investment returns and future income outpace your assumptions. And that your expenses will be less than you’ve modeled. I retired in June, just before turning 49. It is arresting to see work related expenses fall away. Commute costs in particular. And the freedom is pretty lovely. I suspect that my spending will further modulate to preserve this freedom as necessary. As for friends, it is odd how many people slip away from home, school, and work. But you newly have this community of super fans. Thank you both, Jonathan
as a suggestion if your in a field with any type of certification be prepared to change jobs every ti.e you receive one. For example as an engineer when I went from designer to EIT to PE I had to move jobs to get commensurate pay
Great topic guys. Really appreciate your work For myself, I had chances to "level up" in my career but always felt that i would rather invest my way up to financial success (although not really interested in retiring early). I agree with your statement about not needing to a SV engineer to have financial success.
Thanks! A good reminder to all that there are many paths to FI - as well as things that can follow reaching it, not all of which involve RE. Best wishes to you
Would you consider a video about how 2 FI numbers can work? Meaning stop contributing to 401k&IRA at 47 let it coast fire to 2million at age 60(enough for rest of life). But then using and basically depleting a taxable brokerage account(basically enough for only the 13years)for early retirement from age 47-60. I think this can work but means retiring before reaching the 25times FIRE number, would just love to hear someone smarter than me talk about why or why not this works. Thanks for all the great videos!
really good episode love the contrast with yall one intense and one super chill 34 years in restaurant biz...... once i moved on from a job....... dont talk or see 99.9% of them ....... i think the tax issues are something people need to spend more time on... im trying to decide when and how much of a roth conversion to do...... driving myself crazy to lower my taxes when i start to collect soc security plus the mandatory withdrawals for 401k
As a couple moving through the years of working while getting closer to retirement. We all have different triggers which throw us into an earlier orbit of retirement, like learning a new computer system, or an work buddy is replaced with new face who can't do the work or he or she work is sub-par. Life changes comes from all directions. Do you want to deal with another change later in life. In moving to another state, Jason did the tax rate come into play in your decision making along with climate? Will you move in the future from Maine or is family holding you there? Eric
Jason here - Thanks for the comment. You're 100% right that changes come continuously and it's essential to evaluate them! To be sure, the financial implications of moves (such as taxation) must be considered as part of these "where to live" decisions. Taxes were one part, but admittedly not a huge part of my own process. We elected to move to CA about 10 years prior to RE and later decided to stay - for now, anyway. All decisions are subject to continuous re-evaluation, right? If you haven't seen it, here's the two part series Eric and I did on decided where to live: part 1: th-cam.com/video/CoD8Pgbo3EE/w-d-xo.html part 2: th-cam.com/video/XK0_hvad5q4/w-d-xo.html
You can sell monthly covered calls, on dividend paying stocks, like Ford(F), or Kroger(KR), and produce 1% per month, on top of the dividend. People aren't going to stop buying trucks or food, anytime soon.
Hi fellas, thanks for the great show, as always! Question for Jason… I’m curious why you elected not to share your FI plans with some of the colleagues you might have had closer relationships with at work. Just a guess here… but I could imagine it feeling somewhat off-putting if from their perspective you were close yet you had never shared any details about this life-changing path you were on. Perhaps some might have embraced the idea and felt slighted. Did you view discussing the topic with work colleagues as potentially risky job security-wise, or… what was the calculus there?
First of all tks, second it seems to me this success is built on the foundation of great women and great relationships without you would be either alone r in divorce hell. Well done 🍀🍀🍀
Most people refer to savings rate as % of net pay. Just have to remember that health insurnace and taxes on the total needs to go into your FIRE number.
for sure, people look at this a lot of different ways! here's a ChooseFI post comparing some of the most common approaches: www.choosefi.com/how-to-calculate-your-savings-rate/
We've talked about this on the show a bit. While our crystal balls are as cloudy on this topic as any, we certainly both hope we will want to continue to do the show well beyond Eric's achievement of FI!
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA Finals D1 | Fall | ยิงต้องโหด ให้เหมือนโกรธกันมาก่อน](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OnTdfGySmds/mqdefault.jpg)
What steps have you taken to accelerate your FI path? Let us know in the comments!
It’s possible you two don’t realize how much some of us value your videos however I wanted to simply remind you.. thank you.
Thanks so much, Shawn. We both truly appreciate your support. 🙏
Absolutely ❤
I did exactly the opposite - I didn't take a promotion that would have accelerated my FI path because it meant leading a team and there are members of that team that would have drained the life force from me and would have violently stomped out my desire to live. The mental toll that would have taken on me would have been too much. My family tried to convince me to go for the role by saying "just don't let it get to you" and each time I have to deal with those difficult individuals, I remind them that my life would have been like that every single day . I have never been so overjoyed NOT to advance my FI path!
Thanks for sharing! And that's a perfectly valid decision. It's definitely not _only_ about achieving FI - this is our life we're talking about, after all. We all need to know ourselves and what we truly want (and don't want) to do.
Not only could I positively imagine a future of not working, the reality now of not working is even better than I imagined. I never dreaded having to work. That would have made the working part unbearable. It’s called work for a reason, but you don’t have to hate it. And the delight of imaging not working drove me to prepare when I was ready to FIRE. It’s been 4 years now and I haven’t regretted retiring early for one second.
A big reason for me for RE was to get away from PIA co workers. So no love loss for me when I left! Wife and I were a couple of DINKs making good money 20 years ago and got crazy aggressive with saving and investing. Also paid off the mortgage in 5 years. This was all before and during the Great Recession so we were buying loads of stock funds at super cheap values. Retired a few years ago at age 53 and have no regrets!
Sounds like you’re doing great! Best wishes to you for continued success in all things
Good on you, we should all be so lucky.
Sometimes friendships fade when the primary reason you are together changes and you move in different directions. The same thing happens when you graduate high school and friends that you spent every day with move on to other things. You may both be going to college but you're having different experiences and you are each developing new friendships.
yea, I hear ya about the friendship part. It happened to me and my wife post FI. We found we also need to keep our FI journey to ourselves when making new friends because they have a strange reaction and there's a feeling of resentment or something. And when they don't know our history of honest independent hard work to get there (our parent's weren't rich), they make assumptions that lead to strange comments from them on the occasion. So we're trying to navigate new friends and just having a hard time discovering how we meet like minded (FI) people in our area with whom we can be open in our conversations to be true friends.. but it seems like they also don't want to talk about it since they've experienced the same situations. Appreciate any advice.
I get zero fulfillment from work and I'm all about the FI, realistically I'll be able to hit it at 60 with saving 50% of my income for the next 11 years. Those 11 years can't pass fast enough.
Sorry to hear work is giving you such poor returns from a fulfillment perspective. Are you then all about the RE as well? Or do you plan to move into different work once you're past FI?
Very candid discussion on FI. I’m 63, a RN, and not close to my retirement goals. I am working on getting rid of debt, moving to an area with a lower cost of living, and also want to consider a better job with greater pay and flexibility. I’ve been overlooked for years at my organization for growth positions. It’s frustrating and this discussion is motivating me for sure. Thank you.
Sounds like you’re taking all the right decisions to support your goals, Carolyn. Best wishes to you in all things.
Jasons biggest let down was also my biggest let down when leaving my employer -I can relate! Having worked with a small staff for almost 20 years, the fun and personal daily exchanges weren't enough to parlay in to life outside of the company. I think people just lead busy lives and the fallout is that you become out of sight out of mind. No hard feelings. Sort of. haha
Sorry to hear you went through the same! From the feedback I've gotten on the topic it seems really common.
Great video guys 👌 alot of information for people to learn.. I started my saving journey with ETFS when I was 20 years old.... I'm soon to be 35 in couple months and happily now retired... the money I get paid from my etf dividends more then covers my lifestyle and any future inflation...life is beautiful if I can do it anyone can. Discipline with saving is absolute key
Hi Eric and Jason. I always appreciate your open and honest dialogue. Your conversations are what us pre FI people think about daily.
Thanks so much for the kind words and support
Great content! I have to say I was in the right place at the right time. Saved aggressively from 1996, 2021. Many down years the first 15 years the last 10 years went up and rode the wave. 100% growth mutual funds. Shut it down at 58, wife at 55. Have 60% Roth and 40% pretax.
Made around 6 figures jointly for those 25 years. Took risk off the table when we retired, 30% Cash 70% growth mutual funds, to ride out any bumps till I hit FRA. Enjoying FI!
New job every 2-3 years helped me tremendously at the early stage of my career. I had fun and learned a lot in different gigs. My pay doubled a few times allowing for a faster path to FI(and RE when the time is right) Great advice!
That is awesome! Thanks for sharing
This was a great episode. I wonder if part of the chsnges in relationships with former work colleagues is a co-worker leaving to RE makes them look at the decisions they have made and are making and it makes them unhappy and resentful? I imagine it has to cause some of that.
Thank you! I suspect for some of them you may be right. -Jason
I hear you Jason about not being able to keep in touch with old colleagues /friends and even close friends who live apart from you, I find it is the same for me, and I have now built new group of friends and OK with it. Also even with old friends as you and they change we seem to have less common interests thanks for another great episode
Love the fact you guys are thoughtful and genuine!
Thanks, Richard! For better or worse sometimes, we are definitely always being ourselves
Jason, really appreciate your open discussion. And appreciate that you and Lori have set your own path which is non traditional. My FIRE plan is to work another 3 years at a very large tech company to solidify my finances and then move to a startup AI for fun. Trying to determine if perhaps I can make this shift earlier.
Best wishes to you on your journey! We hope you find the startup experience as fun and fulfilling as Jason did. Keep us posted!
On the other side of professional and financial success, with a certain amount of years under your belt, many find they experience what Wayne Dyer called “the Shift” from a life driven and focused on acquisition and achievement to one driven and focused on meaning and purpose. Your conversations seem to be offer a good look into the Petri dish of this transition. Thanks for sharing!
Great episode, thank you! I made most of my FIRE-money after selling a company I co-founded. Probably not a recommended path, but I can very much relate to many of the reflections you guys did here. We did have a number of employees that got some money out of it as well thanks to taking risk in the way you did Jason.
100% on changing jobs and companies every few years to accelerate learning and earnings. This is especially true for certain industries.
I savor your videos. I watch in chunks when I have moments of "me time" throughout the day. I consider the two of you friends I've never met.
Thanks so much, Lori! We truly appreciate your support 🙏
Good content per usual. I dont think what you went through with work colleagues is very suprising. As someone who worked abroad I found this out very quickly. The bond you share is your work and the rest revolves around that. People also invariably get tired of hearing about things that dont impact them directly. Sad fact if life but its reality.
Having spent 30 years in same company (A Dinasoar 🙈) I have seen many people retire, some were very popular, some not, but in all cases in just two weeks nobody ever mentioned them , and in months 99per cent of any regular contact was over , and sadly that is the way it works.
When we meet it great but what keep us together is gone, and it's kinda sad🤔
You guys are my favorite FI podcast. I just find your discussions so relatable to my life experience and journey. I am retiring later this year and I'm really excited about it. I feel well-prepared having listened to your many conversations. Thank you!
Thanks so much for the kind words and your support 🙏
Great episode, enjoyed the comedy relief of the 'review' 🙂....for fun, please do an episode or short reading the most comedic ones! I'm sure there are more than a few.
Only one other like that one but there might be some other funny ones…
Dear both,
I really enjoy listening to you from Germany. This is not a topic that is at all common in here, even the idea of retiring before your regular age of 60s are something very rare. And people would give you funny looks if you talk about this , that’s why I need to listen many American channels;) I really appreciate both sides of FI because you are super honest and transparent about how it is. This friendship fading is something I totally expect as well, as everyone is replaceable at the workplace and they will forget about you or your service years in the next days you left after a nice farewell party if you are lucky;) so my question is and maybe an idea for a next episode how do you make new friends ( especially Jason) moving to a new area after reaching FIRE and basically not having that natural social connections like work. I would be very interested to listen to that and another idea how is your day/week/month/ year looks like , travels you make, new experiences you make etc, you name it :) thanks for being you !
FI was always my only goal.....RE was the eventual reward. I got laid off early in my career, and even though finding another job was not that hard at the time, the feeling pissed me off enough that I swore I would no longer be a slave to debt or working. Luckily my wife agreed with that plan, and 24 years later, we both exited the workforce at age 55. We had worker-bee careers in tech and consulting, but nothing with stratospheric $$ potential.
Two other guys at my office also retired early within a few months of my departure. We found out about one another's RE path my accident (I ran into one of the guys at an RE seminar....that was interesting), and it was fun to discuss future plans with them. We still get together for lunch.
Thank you as always for your content.
I suspect you will both discover that you could have retired earlier.
I’ll bet that your investment returns and future income outpace your assumptions. And that your expenses will be less than you’ve modeled.
I retired in June, just before turning 49. It is arresting to see work related expenses fall away. Commute costs in particular.
And the freedom is pretty lovely. I suspect that my spending will further modulate to preserve this freedom as necessary.
As for friends, it is odd how many people slip away from home, school, and work. But you newly have this community of super fans.
Thank you both,
Jonathan
as a suggestion if your in a field with any type of certification be prepared to change jobs every ti.e you receive one. For example as an engineer when I went from designer to EIT to PE I had to move jobs to get commensurate pay
Great topic guys. Really appreciate your work For myself, I had chances to "level up" in my career but always felt that i would rather invest my way up to financial success (although not really interested in retiring early). I agree with your statement about not needing to a SV engineer to have financial success.
Thanks! A good reminder to all that there are many paths to FI - as well as things that can follow reaching it, not all of which involve RE. Best wishes to you
Would you consider a video about how 2 FI numbers can work? Meaning stop contributing to 401k&IRA at 47 let it coast fire to 2million at age 60(enough for rest of life). But then using and basically depleting a taxable brokerage account(basically enough for only the 13years)for early retirement from age 47-60. I think this can work but means retiring before reaching the 25times FIRE number, would just love to hear someone smarter than me talk about why or why not this works. Thanks for all the great videos!
May the FI be with you!
And also with you!
Great to listen and learn. Thank you for sharing the story.
Thanks!
Shifted to the trades, instant 6 figures.
really good episode
love the contrast with yall
one intense and one super chill
34 years in restaurant biz...... once i moved on from a job....... dont talk or see 99.9% of them .......
i think the tax issues are something people need to spend more time on... im trying to decide when and how much of a roth conversion to do...... driving myself crazy to lower my taxes when i start to collect soc security plus the mandatory withdrawals for 401k
As a couple moving through the years of working while getting closer to retirement. We all have different triggers which throw us into an earlier orbit of retirement, like learning a new computer system, or an work buddy is replaced with new face who can't do the work or he or she work is sub-par. Life changes comes from all directions. Do you want to deal with another change later in life. In moving to another state, Jason did the tax rate come into play in your decision making along with climate? Will you move in the future from Maine or is family holding you there? Eric
Jason here - Thanks for the comment. You're 100% right that changes come continuously and it's essential to evaluate them! To be sure, the financial implications of moves (such as taxation) must be considered as part of these "where to live" decisions. Taxes were one part, but admittedly not a huge part of my own process. We elected to move to CA about 10 years prior to RE and later decided to stay - for now, anyway. All decisions are subject to continuous re-evaluation, right? If you haven't seen it, here's the two part series Eric and I did on decided where to live:
part 1: th-cam.com/video/CoD8Pgbo3EE/w-d-xo.html
part 2: th-cam.com/video/XK0_hvad5q4/w-d-xo.html
Thanks guys. Love your work on this channel!!!
Thank you, Matthew!
This was a great episode. Thank you!
Thanks! Glad you liked it
You can sell monthly covered calls, on dividend paying stocks, like Ford(F), or Kroger(KR), and produce 1% per month, on top of the dividend. People aren't going to stop buying trucks or food, anytime soon.
Thanks for the great content, gentlemen! Well done.
Thanks! So glad you liked it, David
@@TwoSidesOfFI 🔥🔥🔥
Hi fellas, thanks for the great show, as always! Question for Jason… I’m curious why you elected not to share your FI plans with some of the colleagues you might have had closer relationships with at work. Just a guess here… but I could imagine it feeling somewhat off-putting if from their perspective you were close yet you had never shared any details about this life-changing path you were on. Perhaps some might have embraced the idea and felt slighted. Did you view discussing the topic with work colleagues as potentially risky job security-wise, or… what was the calculus there?
First of all tks, second it seems to me this success is built on the foundation of great women and great relationships without you would be either alone r in divorce hell.
Well done 🍀🍀🍀
when you talk about saving rate, is it compare to gross or net income?
Most people refer to savings rate as % of net pay. Just have to remember that health insurnace and taxes on the total needs to go into your FIRE number.
@@timbrendley9826 cheers!
for sure, people look at this a lot of different ways! here's a ChooseFI post comparing some of the most common approaches: www.choosefi.com/how-to-calculate-your-savings-rate/
@@TwoSidesOfFI love page! will check it for sure! thanks
❤❤❤
Has the conversation on how long you both will do this podcast together once Eric arrives at FI? 🧭
We've talked about this on the show a bit. While our crystal balls are as cloudy on this topic as any, we certainly both hope we will want to continue to do the show well beyond Eric's achievement of FI!