I don't understand why these videos and many more like them get "thumbs down", surely when you are trying to help people they would appreciate it. Thank you for a wonderful set of videos and I for one am glued to the screen. Keep safe. Frank.
As I played Marklin as 6-11, I am back on my 40 years bought 2 startersets and rail turnout sets in C-rail coming from early M-rail, this video is very usefull!
I’ve had a stressful week. Thankfully Martin released a new video. I find the videos relaxing and calming. I just find the videos draw me in. :-) I’m so interested in seeing how this will build out. It’s a fascinating and fantastic project. And you’ve done a great job keeping each video a digestible chunk!
Siempre es grato ver el realismo que le pone a sus maquetas. Gracias por su esfuerzo de transmitir sus conocimientos en mundo del ferromodelismo. Saludos desde la ciudad de México.
By the way, Martin, I love your videos and plan on using most of it in my new 13x19 layout. I’ve laid all the track and am working out the kinks in the rails with engines derailing and cars detaching. Plus, I’ve got a large mountain waterfall that I know know how to make look good because of your waterfall video!!! Thanks!!!
The good thing about you being Swedish is that most of the products you use have the name also in Finnish so it's easy for me to get the right stuff and not accidentally get the wrong stuff if I understood you wrong.
I like this series. It would be nice if the title of the videos had the episode number - makes it easier to determine where you are at in the series. Personally I am not interested in train sets but instead am wanting to do a medieval diorama. Regardless though, these videos give me tons of great ideas so I love to watch them. Another thought: Luke Towan did a diorama with an electric remote controlled jeep that might make a great addition to a railroad setup and could be used even to create a horse and buggy remotely controlled for non-modern stuff like I am interested in.
Me gustaria que los videos fuesen mas largos y obiamente a muchos nos gustaria que subiera videos mas seguido. Muy buen canal saludos hasta donde se encuentre.
i personally prefer building the ballast myself but bow does that result for you if i may ask cause i am thinking of getting a second layout with pre ballasted tracks but don't want it too look plasticy
Hi, i love your videos, i have a question, what do you use for the background? i mean the photos of the background, mountain, grasslands... did you buy it or you just printed photos from internet? Thanks
Hi there, a very good video, thanks 🙏 I have a question: I use Trix C-track which is very similar to Märklin C-track. I am considering to add a branchline extension to my layout but the track is in an oval, so no possibility to connect a new branch line to it. So I will have to remove some track and put in a turnout to make a new branchline. These C-tracks are however ballasted with Noch ballast pebbles and I am afraid I would have to remove several tracks before I could put in a turnout and reconnect it all. I al afraid the connection system of these C-tracks will make it difficult to reconnect it all to the existing tracks. Do you have experience with such procedure and maybe some advice? I would be very grateful. Thanks! Greetings from Belgium 🙋♂️ Erik
Hello, I love your videos! So insightful and smartly put together. I am currently planning to purchase the tracks (C-track) from Märklin to use your design of Martinstown. However, I am having a hard time figuring out what tracks to use underneath the station area? It´s very hard to see what kind of track numbers you have used, because the upper layer i s covering for the track numbers underneath. Do you have another layout where these tracks are easy to see? Especially the short stubby tracks are more of a guesswork figuring out? Thanks!
Great video. Thanks. I saw you paintbrush the tracks. Do you clean the top of the track to make better contact with the wheels of the trains? Seems to me in this way the trains will have problems to run smoothly. Thanks in advance.
Tack för de inspirerande filmerna. Blir verkligen sugen på starta med modelljärnväg. Men jag undrar om de där digitala start set:en kan hantera äldre analoga lok (har ett par jag ärvt som funkar). Eller måste jag köpa ett analogt start set för att kunna använda dom?
Loading the layout with AnyRail 6.0, it shows me that the slopes reach also the 7.9%. Are they too high? In all the videos or articles on the web I red that the maximum slope percentage should be no more than 4-5%. It is true?
Hi! Thank you for this feedback. Yes, a maximum of 4-5% is a good advice. Preferrably even 2-3%, but it’s often hard on small layouts. 7.9%? It can be that the height on some track sections is wrong. I’ll look into it. This layout is designed for short engines with 4 goods cars, or 2 long passenger cars.
@@marklinofsweden Hi Martin! Thanks for immediate answer! Yes, I saw that simply loading the .any file from your website and enabling the visibility of the slope %. I also sent yesterday an email to you ( to the address shown in the website), asking about the possibility ( if make sense) to add a real hidden station ( with 2-3 parallel track ) , eventually at level -12
Hi Martin, the folded dogbone is a wonderful concept and it gives a remarkably long run of track in a small space, but regrettably my locos cannot handle the inclines which I calculate to be about 1:21cm which is too steep: they are the British equivalent of the ones you were running (maybe Swedish trains are just stronger). i have been racking my brain to come up with a plan that solves the problem but keeps the essence of the idea, but so far no good. Many thanks anyway. Steve.
If one wanted to save money (and/or doesn't have the means to get decent cut plywood pieces), would it be possible to replace the plywood bits under the tracks with cardboard entirely, or would that just not work with all the liquids involved/simply look very bad?
Hi just wanted to say how much I liked your video's. I got one question: if you airbrush the Marklin C rails does that have an effect on the electrical current through the rails on to the trains? Thanks in advance.
It is impressive how much you can fit into 2x1m .. i am planning a similar layout right now, but i only got 160x100cm and i struggle to fit the oval alone.. xD.. maybe you can answer me this.. how "wide" is the tightest h0 curve?.. i thought its around 60cm.. 🧐 or did i calculate Wrong...xD
Hallo Martin. Fantastic videos. Is there a track plan for marklin or are the railnumbers from marklin and trix the same ? Wat will be the overal Cost for this build ? Greetings from Belgium
Hello, thank you for this video series! I'm starting to develop an interest in model railroading. My question is, if I make a model, is there any scope of using the same tracks for another model in the future as I will have just a confined space, or will I have to buy new sets?
Great inspiration, I'm learning a lot with your videos. I have doubts about the track systems, mainly about the downsides or advantages of all the systems, and about compatible things, other brands locos Will worlk on a marklin layout like yours? Or viceversa. thank you for all of your great videos. Saludos desde España!!!
Love these videos. I am building a Z scale layout using Rokuhan tracks, which I love but have a very light grey track bed. Wondering if anyone can point me what ballast type and color I should use to match them. And if it is OK to give these Z tracks a dark brown wash to make them look better (light weathering).
Your layout is beautiful! I’m loving the beginner series. Is that controller DCC? Is it the equivalent of Digitrax? From North America? I haven’t been able to find much info on it.
Hi Martin, It looks great 👍 verry clear how youre building. Question: Is It possible tot make a light collord ballast with the c track system? So Do you have to paint alle the grey tot light brown Best regards Ed From Holland 🇳🇱
U moet het waarscheinlijk bruin verven. Het is ook mogelijk om het met een dikke laag van ballast te bedekken en daarmee de kleur volleedig te verschuilen.
Tar en fråga på svenska om det är okej. Har precis kommit igång med mitt bygge, en lite mindre bana 90*250 cm. Jag skulle vilja få mitt enkelspår att ha en stigning och sänkning såklart för att få lite mer liv i banan. Jag skulle gärna få lite tips på hur jag på ett enkelt sätt bygga höjning utan att behöva såga till plywood och få det att se bra ut och få det att fungera. Tack för en bra kanal. Det är märklin c-skena jag bygger med
I really appreciate these videos. I am just starting out. Can I buy your materials (plywood sub beds and train sets through you?) as I live in Canada. Regards. Tony Campbell
Wouldn't solenoids work as well where you installed the motors? Also, is it possible to make the pillars out of PVC pipe? It seems like you should be able to do that.
I think this is kept simple for beginners but all these parts new cost alot of money. I also think the depth of the table top will cause problems if you use under baseboard motors like peco or tortoise
@Frank De Ruiter yes the Brand does matter because in Spain acrilic kit doesn't exist, and the copydex seems to me very expensive to use like that.... If I have the Brand and model of glue . Maybe could find the same product that sells un Spain.
@@robverheij561 Märklin has been using the third rail system since 1934 when they invented HO, in analog systems it has many advantages, in digital the main one is that you can do loops very easily, something very complex with two rail system because it would create a short circuit.
@@roguico Thank you for your kind response, but 60 years ago I got a Fleischmann locomotive and yes you will come back to that. At least wants digital, has to think about it for a while. You explain everything very well, mindfully to look at it.
Hi Martin im a starter with a 50 year old Lima set to begin. Like youre channel and im learning a lot here. Do you have a drawing of this track layout?
Hallo Martin I just wanted to let you know about some of the model train news here in Denmark The brand McK are rerealising their Litra ME which is a very sort after model and this time they are making two of them in a NRFAB (Nordic re-finance AB) livery which I thought you might be interested in as it’s the one they run in Sweden but if you are interested you have to be fast when it comes out as they normally sell out in about 6 months because thay only produce 500 (100 in the NRFAB livery) thay are also using the same manufacture as Hnoll (dekas) so that may give you a sense of the quality :)
I don't understand why these videos and many more like them get "thumbs down", surely when you are trying to help people they would appreciate it. Thank you for a wonderful set of videos and I for one am glued to the screen. Keep safe. Frank.
Chinese
There are trolls everywhere .
As I played Marklin as 6-11, I am back on my 40 years bought 2 startersets and rail turnout sets in C-rail coming from early M-rail, this video is very usefull!
I’ve had a stressful week. Thankfully Martin released a new video. I find the videos relaxing and calming. I just find the videos draw me in. :-)
I’m so interested in seeing how this will build out. It’s a fascinating and fantastic project. And you’ve done a great job keeping each video a digestible chunk!
Loving your normal builds very much but this specific series is very much appreciated.
Another great episode. Thanks Martin.
To the water/glue mix I also add a drop of dishwash.
Old guy here in America.All new to me.I grew up with Lionel.I do speak a little German.Great video.
Hello. Very interesting how you build it. A good introduction to this wonderful hobby for beginners. look forward to the sequel. Greetings Tino
Siempre es grato ver el realismo que le pone a sus maquetas. Gracias por su esfuerzo de transmitir sus conocimientos en mundo del ferromodelismo.
Saludos desde la ciudad de México.
Maybe you should - every now and then during the process - present an overview over the entire build.
Thank you! I’ll do that. It’s very good feedback!
By the way, Martin, I love your videos and plan on using most of it in my new 13x19 layout. I’ve laid all the track and am working out the kinks in the rails with engines derailing and cars detaching. Plus, I’ve got a large mountain waterfall that I know know how to make look good because of your waterfall video!!! Thanks!!!
seeing just how easy it is to connect trains to a digital layout gave me a lot of motivation ive been missing :D
Thanks Martin, really enjoying this series.
Love it, thank you, was only thinking today about when Episode 3 would be realised
I really like your work, extreme talent and dedication to the hobby! You make it all seem so "easy" :D
I love your channel! Would love to see more on airbrushing techniques and what equipment to use and how to set up. Thanks
Hello Martin. Another great episode in a great series. Thank you.
Thank you for what you are doing.Very good for begginers like me.
Another great episode... really starting to take shape Martin.
Thanks foe excellent hints on laying track and adding ballast. Well done.
This has been a fascinating series and I have learned quite a lot. Thanks for sharing this.
The good thing about you being Swedish is that most of the products you use have the name also in Finnish so it's easy for me to get the right stuff and not accidentally get the wrong stuff if I understood you wrong.
Great series MoS! It really makes model railroading more accessible. Everyone can build a good looking and good working layout. Just get started!!
Thank you for this episode!
Absolut Cool. Fantastic Tutorial.
Again an astonishing video thank you very much
Another great video, very well put together, thanks 🙏
Remember to remove the paint from the top surface of the rails so your engines can still keep power!
Yes thats important
Thank you for feedback! 👍👍👍 I’ll high light that in the intro of the next video. I didn’t record the cleaning for some reason, so it was forgotten.
I like this series. It would be nice if the title of the videos had the episode number - makes it easier to determine where you are at in the series.
Personally I am not interested in train sets but instead am wanting to do a medieval diorama. Regardless though, these videos give me tons of great ideas so I love to watch them.
Another thought: Luke Towan did a diorama with an electric remote controlled jeep that might make a great addition to a railroad setup and could be used even to create a horse and buggy remotely controlled for non-modern stuff like I am interested in.
I always enjoy the realizm you add to your layouts and scenery
Darauf hab ich gewartet.
Toll
12.48 nice collor.. thumps up! 😉
Brilliant - deceptively simple, so informative, thank you :-)
-Hello, and welcome to another video tutorial! That's the mandatory prelude, pull yourself together man...
Wieder ein tolles Video
Again a great video
Hi Schmidko!
I want write the same! 😊👍
Martin, your channel is brilliant! 😆
Very nice! Greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷! Ferromodelismobarretos
Me gustaria que los videos fuesen mas largos y obiamente a muchos nos gustaria que subiera videos mas seguido. Muy buen canal saludos hasta donde se encuentre.
Great to see again...
How's she goin'? This is an excellent series. Thanks a lot for doing this!!!
Wonderful videos! You should advise to make a cutout under the turnout switch for maintaining or replace.
Top Dog. Proper Governor is Martin. 😁
I only use pre-ballast track now as it is the easiest to lay and worth the extra cost over the old full PVA soak method. ,
i personally prefer building the ballast myself but bow does that result for you if i may ask cause i am thinking of getting a second layout with pre ballasted tracks but don't want it too look plasticy
Hi, i love your videos, i have a question, what do you use for the background? i mean the photos of the background, mountain, grasslands... did you buy it or you just printed photos from internet?
Thanks
Hi! Thank you! The background is manuf by Vollmer. It’s a 3-piece paper background. About a meter tall and 3 meters long
@@marklinofsweden thanks, this will fit perfect in my slot track, thanks for your quickly answer!!!
Würde mich freuen wenn man mehr von dem bettungsgleis sieht und wie man es verarbeitet. Danke
Hi Jens!
Schau mal auf meinem Kanal. Da zeige ich ein paar Tips für Bettungsgleise. Es sind die gelb umrahmten Videos.
@@E_73 danke dir
very good job what you do - thumbs up
Love your video’s
Great Video! thank you
I like Trix because I own a Trix Express model railrod since 1962 :-)
Hi there, a very good video, thanks 🙏 I have a question: I use Trix C-track which is very similar to Märklin C-track. I am considering to add a branchline extension to my layout but the track is in an oval, so no possibility to connect a new branch line to it. So I will have to remove some track and put in a turnout to make a new branchline. These C-tracks are however ballasted with Noch ballast pebbles and I am afraid I would have to remove several tracks before I could put in a turnout and reconnect it all. I al afraid the connection system of these C-tracks will make it difficult to reconnect it all to the existing tracks.
Do you have experience with such procedure and maybe some advice? I would be very grateful. Thanks!
Greetings from Belgium 🙋♂️ Erik
Cut space for the turnout with a Dremel tool. Remove the track section and put in the turnout with feeder wires, preferably solderd. Then re-balast.
Hi Martin, thanks for another inspiring video. Just a quick question: after airbrushing the tracks, what do you use for cleaning the top of the rails?
True. I’ll highlight that starting the next video.
thank you
Of course they had to include marklin components, or else you would have to be Trixofsweden!
Amazing job sir, thanks for your valuable tips ,i wonder if it is too difficult to show us the track plan of this beautiful layout .
Excelente
Hello, I love your videos! So insightful and smartly put together. I am currently planning to purchase the tracks (C-track) from Märklin to use your design of Martinstown. However, I am having a hard time figuring out what tracks to use underneath the station area? It´s very hard to see what kind of track numbers you have used, because the upper layer i s covering for the track numbers underneath. Do you have another layout where these tracks are easy to see? Especially the short stubby tracks are more of a guesswork figuring out? Thanks!
Great video. Thanks.
I saw you paintbrush the tracks. Do you clean the top of the track to make better contact with the wheels of the trains? Seems to me in this way the trains will have problems to run smoothly.
Thanks in advance.
Cleaning is neccesary. I will make an amendment starting the next episode how to do it and why.
@@marklinofsweden Great. Thanks. I'm looking forward to the next video.
Hi Martin, great tutorial. One question, after you spray the rust color, do you clean the top of the track off again? For running the trains
Great video. Thank you very much. This link after "Martinstown website" does not work.
Tack för de inspirerande filmerna. Blir verkligen sugen på starta med modelljärnväg. Men jag undrar om de där digitala start set:en kan hantera äldre analoga lok (har ett par jag ärvt som funkar). Eller måste jag köpa ett analogt start set för att kunna använda dom?
What kit did you use? The only one i was able to find (and which i bought) is Noch Karlsberg, and i built it the way they explained in the manual.
Is it important to wipe of the paint from the top of the tracks, so that the pain doesn’t affect the tracks conductivity?
Yes! I will make an amendment in the intro of the next episode. Thank you for commenting!
What’s the best method for removing the paint from the top of the rails?
Hmm.. Probably isopropanol or Chemically Pure gasoline. It depends on what paint you used.
Loading the layout with AnyRail 6.0, it shows me that the slopes reach also the 7.9%. Are they too high? In all the videos or articles on the web I red that the maximum slope percentage should be no more than 4-5%. It is true?
Hi! Thank you for this feedback. Yes, a maximum of 4-5% is a good advice. Preferrably even 2-3%, but it’s often hard on small layouts.
7.9%? It can be that the height on some track sections is wrong. I’ll look into it.
This layout is designed for short engines with 4 goods cars, or 2 long passenger cars.
@@marklinofsweden Hi Martin! Thanks for immediate answer! Yes, I saw that simply loading the .any file from your website and enabling the visibility of the slope %.
I also sent yesterday an email to you ( to the address shown in the website), asking about the possibility ( if make sense) to add a real hidden station ( with 2-3 parallel track ) , eventually at level -12
@@andrealoleo1681 Hi! I saw your E-mail now. Ok. I’ll try to respond to it tomorrow when I’m back in the studio.
Hi Martin, the folded dogbone is a wonderful concept and it gives a remarkably long run of track in a small space, but regrettably my locos cannot handle the inclines which I calculate to be about 1:21cm which is too steep: they are the British equivalent of the ones you were running (maybe Swedish trains are just stronger). i have been racking my brain to come up with a plan that solves the problem but keeps the essence of the idea, but so far no good. Many thanks anyway. Steve.
If one wanted to save money (and/or doesn't have the means to get decent cut plywood pieces), would it be possible to replace the plywood bits under the tracks with cardboard entirely, or would that just not work with all the liquids involved/simply look very bad?
Hi just wanted to say how much I liked your video's. I got one question: if you airbrush the Marklin C rails does that have an effect on the electrical current through the rails on to the trains? Thanks in advance.
I live in an apt and using folding tables 12ft long. Wish I planned ahead and bought one more and did a U shape setup instead
It is impressive how much you can fit into 2x1m .. i am planning a similar layout right now, but i only got 160x100cm and i struggle to fit the oval alone.. xD.. maybe you can answer me this.. how "wide" is the tightest h0 curve?.. i thought its around 60cm.. 🧐 or did i calculate Wrong...xD
Hallo Martin. Fantastic videos. Is there a track plan for marklin or are the railnumbers from marklin and trix the same ? Wat will be the overal Cost for this build ?
Greetings from Belgium
Hello, thank you for this video series! I'm starting to develop an interest in model railroading. My question is, if I make a model, is there any scope of using the same tracks for another model in the future as I will have just a confined space, or will I have to buy new sets?
Can you solder feeder wires to the rail sides?
Sure. Works fine as well
Would you still glue the track if you know you might not live at the house for ever and need to.move?
Please provide the link for buying these types of train set
Thank you for feedback! Okay.. The link information has been updated now. mrr-tutorials.com/trackwork/trackwork_martinstown.html
Great inspiration, I'm learning a lot with your videos. I have doubts about the track systems, mainly about the downsides or advantages of all the systems, and about compatible things, other brands locos Will worlk on a marklin layout like yours? Or viceversa. thank you for all of your great videos. Saludos desde España!!!
merci :)
By painting the rails what about electrical contact?
Needs cleaning before running trains
Hello Martin!
By the way... woodglue is Holzleim in German, ponal is a brand name!
Greetings, A
Love these videos. I am building a Z scale layout using Rokuhan tracks, which I love but have a very light grey track bed. Wondering if anyone can point me what ballast type and color I should use to match them. And if it is OK to give these Z tracks a dark brown wash to make them look better (light weathering).
Where can I find the Playlist for this guide.. I would be interested in number 1 and 2 as well
super
Your layout is beautiful! I’m loving the beginner series. Is that controller DCC? Is it the equivalent of Digitrax? From North America? I haven’t been able to find much info on it.
Hi Martin, another great video! Can please provide the brand and name of the webcam that you installed. Thank you! Cheers, Dietmar
Hi Martin,
It looks great 👍 verry clear how youre building.
Question: Is It possible tot make a light collord ballast with the c track system? So Do you have to paint alle the grey tot light brown
Best regards Ed From Holland 🇳🇱
U moet het waarscheinlijk bruin verven. Het is ook mogelijk om het met een dikke laag van ballast te bedekken en daarmee de kleur volleedig te verschuilen.
@@gorcbj dank voor uw antwoord. Tussen de rails kan je natuurlijk niet zoveel ballasten denk ik.
👍
Tar en fråga på svenska om det är okej. Har precis kommit igång med mitt bygge, en lite mindre bana 90*250 cm. Jag skulle vilja få mitt enkelspår att ha en stigning och sänkning såklart för att få lite mer liv i banan. Jag skulle gärna få lite tips på hur jag på ett enkelt sätt bygga höjning utan att behöva såga till plywood och få det att se bra ut och få det att fungera. Tack för en bra kanal. Det är märklin c-skena jag bygger med
I really appreciate these videos. I am just starting out. Can I buy your materials (plywood sub beds and train sets through you?) as I live in Canada. Regards. Tony Campbell
Hi Martin,
Could you please post the dimensions of the wood cutouts?
Wouldn't solenoids work as well where you installed the motors? Also, is it possible to make the pillars out of PVC pipe? It seems like you should be able to do that.
I think this is kept simple for beginners but all these parts new cost alot of money. I also think the depth of the table top will cause problems if you use under baseboard motors like peco or tortoise
Cool!
You said you are useing latex rubber. But on the bottle it says acrylate, what is it now?
Hi from Spain, could you give us the name of track adhesive. The one you pure with the Silicon gun. Thanks.
It was latex adhesive. In the UK the brand is Copydex.
@Frank De Ruiter yes the Brand does matter because in Spain acrilic kit doesn't exist, and the copydex seems to me very expensive to use like that.... If I have the Brand and model of glue . Maybe could find the same product that sells un Spain.
Nice to see count dracula has another hobby aside from counting...ha ha ha 4 train 4 train
Could you provide the numbers for the trix packs you used,thank you!
At 1:45 you can see them on the packages. Start set 21528 and two extension sets 62900.
Hi! A full items list is found on mrr-tutorials.com/trackwork/trackwork_martinstown.html
Thank you for the links,that’s a huge help! Any chance you might get the plywood kits any earlier than Q4?🤞
Where can we get these dcc kits? I have tried google, but not much has came up.
Is the turnout decoder possible on analog set?
How can the layout be divided into blocks for automation?
What do you think of 3d printing?
One question, why Marklin would rather not work with this method, rather not have a sliding contact.
Hi Rob! I don’t understand your question. Please clearify.
@@marklinofsweden Marklin is the only one to have a sliding contact.
@@robverheij561 Märklin has been using the third rail system since 1934 when they invented HO, in analog systems it has many advantages, in digital the main one is that you can do loops very easily, something very complex with two rail system because it would create a short circuit.
@@roguico Thank you for your kind response, but 60 years ago I got a Fleischmann locomotive and yes you will come back to that. At least wants digital, has to think about it for a while. You explain everything very well, mindfully to look at it.
Hi Martin im a starter with a 50 year old Lima set to begin. Like youre channel and im learning a lot here. Do you have a drawing of this track layout?
Hello, have you got another way for donation, instead of pattreon ?
Yes. Paypal. Link in video description
@@marklinofsweden ok I'll see with my wife, cause don't have one, and don't want one.
Hello l have an cuestion how fidel can motoris an Turn tabol
May I ask how many trains can run on this plan would also like to run a rail maintenance train on it.
Hi Rob!
I think with Trix MS2 can run minimum 4 Locomotives. 😊
@@E_73, Thank you for your response, but does it have to be Marklin?
Hallo Martin
I just wanted to let you know about some of the model train news here in Denmark
The brand McK are rerealising their Litra ME which is a very sort after model and this time they are making two of them in a NRFAB (Nordic re-finance AB) livery which I thought you might be interested in as it’s the one they run in Sweden but if you are interested you have to be fast when it comes out as they normally sell out in about 6 months because thay only produce 500 (100 in the NRFAB livery) thay are also using the same manufacture as Hnoll (dekas) so that may give you a sense of the quality :)