One Mic Made Three Ways - Warm Audio WA-47, Modded WA-47, and Signal Art 47 from Scratch.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- In this episode, we compare a stock WA-47 with a Signal Art modded WA-47, but also hear a from-scratch version of the mic, the Signal Art U47 Premium Reference Edition.
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Stock: warmaudio.com/...
Modded: www.signalarte...
From Scratch: www.signalarte...
Special thanks:
avnsys.com/
sono-tone.com/
Free Download for All 8 Years of CSL Downloads and PDF guides: www.creativesoundlab.tv/alldownloads
I just bought the stock mic so I will convince myself that it sounds the best!
I know the feeling
Dude, just sprinkle a bit of saturation and vow to never use it on kick, yer golden.
I love this comment
😆
The relationship between studio craft (both engineering & mixing), and individual mics, is worth thinking about. Ultimately our goal is to produce tracks that present the music in an enjoyable way. But when we audition specific mics, we're not as focused on that goal. In this vid we're listening hard to how the freq response of these mics sounds on solo'd instruments. The 'shimmer' that makes the SA version sound appealing, is brought about by a smooth prominence in its freq. response. Thing is, when we produce mutlitrack music, for every track (instrument or voice) that jumps forward in our mix, there are a bunch that have to graciously recede behind it, in the soundscape. (We know that every instrument can't be jumping with 'shimmer', or the mix gets harsh.) I guess what I'm getting at is: When we evaluate mics, we're all prone to favour the ones that have a bright prominence, in their response. But when we use our mic locker for actual mixes, we need a _lot_ of mics that won't compete with the 'cut' of the current lead melody! Anyway, I try to remind myself of that, every time I watch another demo that makes me lust after beautifully flattering mics.
Very beautifully said.
Just listened in my DAW. You can clearly hear a difference between all 3 mics. I could not hear the difference so much or as pronounced through TH-cam. I do appreciate the shootout. I have for months been wanting to hear the difference between the 3 versions and I am surprised Chad does not have some before and after clips on his site. It's one of the reasons I have been reluctant on doing the mod or buying one one his mics. After listening in my DAW I will say this. The mics are subjective as to which mic one would like. The signal Arts sounds more open than the stock or the modded version but for me it lacks the warmth. The stock has warmth for days but it's that warmth that covers the detail in the sound a bit. The modded mic seems to tighten up that low end a bit and opens the mic up without being too anemic in the low end. I guess you can always use eq to add warmth or low end to the signal arts. The warmth of the stock is one of the things I like about the stock mic. The signal arts is a bit more detailed because of the openness of the sound and the lack of low end compared to the other mics but I don't think it's worth 1k more. You can get the stock mic used for about $699 and if a tube swap and eq don't do it spend a few hundred more on the mod. If I was going to spend 2k or more I would be looking at maybe a Heiserman or Flea U47 clone. That said any of these mics could work it just depends on taste. I could see how the signal arts would stack better because there wouldn't be as much low end build up but eq cuts can get the stock pretty close to the signal arts. Again thanks for taking the time to compare. You are the only one that has done so.
Thanks for this comment. I’m a former pro audio engineer and had a company that sold vintage gear. I’m listening to the TH-cam video going, “Is this voodoo? I only hear a very slight difference. Have I totally lost my critical listening skills? Is my hearing shot?” I have suspected that doing these shootouts via TH-cam with very similarly voiced mics is somewhat futile. You confirmed it. You need uncompressed audio to fully hear the difference.
@@dodgedforgottenn He has the audio files in the descripture for Download.
dude nice timing! just got a wa47 and it's already got me reconsidering how i'd been tracking. i'm really enjoying playing with polar patterns and getting more "good" information from sound sources pre-DAW. not that having a more expensive mic is fixing my bad habits, but i do suspect that having a more substantial tool in the toolbox on the front-end is leading to less fussing in the box. great episode!
Yeah better tools help the process for sure. The WA-47 is just a great balanced mic. Not too bright and not too aggressive of a tone.
I liked the mod'ed WA47 across board, it had great presence, an exciting top-end, a solid low-end and a larger-than-life quality. The Signal Art was really expressive on the drums though...
Nice!
@@creativesoundlab wait till you check out stager sr-2n / sr 1 ribbon mics .... insanely awesome
I have one of the Signal Art Premium Reference 48. It is incredible.
OK the signal art is exquisite.. the amount of detail and the realism was something I didn't expect to be honest.
Damn, that Signal Art with its Heiserman capsule really sounds good
Yeah, but Eric Heiserman is an ass, so I won't use his stuff.
i can hear the sublte difference. Good thing there's tons of plugins to enhance a microphone tone
amazing work. I will definitely send my wa-67 to get modded. The SA U47 sounds amazing!!!!!!
Nice work! Chad made a really nice mic here. I had so much fun playing around with his SAE48 when it was in here. It was nice to hear it next to my friend’s FleA 47 when I filmed my video.
I actually remembered you talking about getting custom sounds by talking to a mic builder and the advantages of getting a custom fit mic. Thanks for the inspiration!
@@creativesoundlab Yeah, being able to customize a mic to your desired spec is amazing. Even my FleA 49s are to my spec with K47 capsules instead of the stock M7s. The M49s I've used and loved all had K47s in them and I found the M7 a little darker than I would like, so when I bought them I was able to have them made closer to the microphones I wanted to replicate. Glad my thoughts and experiences gave you a bit of inspiration.
Oh cool! This one here is the m7
Creative Sound Lab yeah, the SAE 48 in my video did too.
Found a b stock wa 47 and im so glad I found this video! For the price way worth the mod upgrade. And in the future will definitely upgrade to the premium! God bless! 😍😍😍
Really cool you did this video. I am about to send a mic to him to repair/mod. I just found his company and hear he does outstanding work. I would love to own one of his 47’s. Those mics went from good, to better, to best. Each gaining more mojo and body to my ears. Thanks again buddy! Cheers!
wow the premium signal art on the kick had such a huge difference. I didn't hear it quite so much in the other comparisons but this was leaps and bounds better.
I have a matched pair of Chad’s 47’s and they’ve been absolutely fantastic for my records.
Nice!
Now I want a Signal Art! I do like how the stock sounds but every time the mic is switched the sound gets better. But in my honest opinion, the SA 47 reveals so much more detail and warmth. Especially on the guitar.
I can hear barely any difference at all, I must have crap ears!
@@Superdelphinus I heard very little on vocals but guitar the bottom end sound richer to me.
I’d love to see the WA 251 comparison next!
I have one and omg!!!!! Awesome.
You're getting pretty good at playing them drums brother! Thanks for the vid
As always a fantastic video that informs educates and surprises us. I personally loved the sound of all 3 mics, more top-end shine and 'magic' as they swapped through the 3, but yeah the stock is as useful and valuable for many applications. Thanks Ryan.
The signal art reference mic sounded like a finished album compared to the stock Warm Audio mic
Hey man I've watched all of your vids and I just wanted to say thank you. I´ve learned a lot. Your work is absolutely phenomenal. Cheers from Chile!
The Signal Art is easily the nicest on this singers voice. It tames the mids that are more pronounced with the first two.
Good ear. I hadn't heard that before now.
Thanks, Ryan, for educating my ears and helping me learn from Chad and Signal Art. The Sylvania 5741 tube he picked for the Modded WA-47 is precious "warm, larger than life" as Chad describes its sound. I hear something in the long resonance of the cymbal on the drum kit that might come out in the midrange of the voice - if you picked a singer who dropped down into that range. It sounds almost 3-D; maybe that's what the dual pentode tubes don't match in the more classical '47 model that Signal Arts put together from components. Can a tube do that? It made my hair stand up.
I just bought a WA47 and I am totally blown away by it. Best sounding mic I have ever put on someones vocals. They loved it too. Thanks for the vid! I am gonna try it out for a live performance in my studio this friday. Got an acoustic guitar, ukulele, and some electric guitar. I will probably just use it on vocals though. Maybe set it to omni for the uke though and capture both.
Yeah I thought it was a solid mic. It makes things easy to record.
No question. Signal Art all the way.
Nice!
The place I engineered at for over 10 years had 3 original 47’s. The SA sounds like one of those in particular… the one we deemed was the “OG standard/most even sounding”… there was one that wasn’t quite as euphonic(could’ve been a tube thing) and another one that had a low mid bump which was incredible on vocals.
We could easily get better than that with the “even sounding” 47 & a pultec though.
Signal Art U47 + an Audioscape EQPA would beat a $10k vintage mic.
I’d love to hear the S.A. against a Beesneez.
good video. Sounds like the Moods bring some mids front in general in all takes. making it more beefy and full sounding .cheers
Preferred the modified Warm mic on vocals and the Signal Art on drums. Thanks for the comparison!
Love my Signal Art U47 :)
Make a video pls. There is nothing besides this video on the signal art u47
Really impressed with the Signal Art mic here, sounds classic. I changed my avatar picture hope you still recognize me, haha!
To put things in context they all sound great. The clarity on the signal art u47 is just spectacular though.
EDIT: I actually preferred the modded mic on drums
I kind of have a theory on why that may be, actually. The WA-47 circuit (as well as the modded WA-47 circuit) is actually closer in design to that of a C12 than to anything from the '47 lineage, although it is voiced and tweaked to come a little closer, sonically, to a 47. It has a K47 capsule and therefore not the brightness or extended top end of a C12 or 251; nonetheless, it still has some of those 'smoothness' characteristics of a C12. And to be honest, in a perfect world, I would reach for a pair of C12s over drums well before I would reach for a pair of '47's, generally speaking... so I think it kind of speaks to that design element, in that the modded WA's can make really pleasing overhead mics.
Wow, very cool insight Chad. I didn't know that.
Thanks for the video. The vocalist’s high range didn’t allow hearing the deep warm tones in lower frequencies, a strong point with the U 47s.
The Modded is more detailed than the original and the Signal Art sounds the best by far, its reconcilable with eyes closed, but also maybe a little louder than the others? I used to have the Wa47, did not like it and sold it.
Yeah, it's possible I didn't get the volume correct. Download the files though and you can level it out in your DAW.
I think the modded mic is a good compromise, though the high end shimmer of the signal art u47 is absolutely gorgeous
Yeah, it's got a wonderful shimmer but not harsh.
I actually like the modded version better than the premium, version, especially on the kick and drums.
Modified WA-47 was worst on all sources. Signal Arts was open in the highs in a way I liked, but the stock WA sounded a little smoother on vocals to me. a little more focused and a bit shelved off in the highs, which I liked about it. a little more "Ribbon" sounding. The Modified WA had a pinched midrange I did not care for. For what its worth, the stock WA-47 seemed fine to me and I wouldn't saw the Signal Arts offered a better sound, just a little different. A little more transient and open vs. a darker, more focused sound. The WA stock wins on drums to me because the other two accentuated the stick tip on the ride WAY too much, but I like dark OH mics.
Reading all the comments here I’m glad to read yours ! I preferred the smoothness of the stock one in the majority of the examples. Could be a bit biased because I own a stock wa47 but I’m always open to find better options ☺️ but here at 800€ in France, it’s hard to beat ! My go to large diaphragm for sure 😊
Amazing, I know this will be great!!!! nice 1!
I have some videos, of the mic with just a tube upgrade. NOS JE USA 5751 (€50)
Nice. Yeah the tubes can make a huge difference. Night and day.
Curious what pre amp was used for these recordings?
To me the standard WA47 sound the best - more flat frequency response. The other two have an artificial emphasis in their frequency responses.
I like the mod version best. Big tight low end while being more openness than the stock. I like the high end of the signal art but miss the low end oomph.
The modded mics sound really better, more body, more low end, the high end is full and smooth... Really nice. (edit) I prefer the WA modded on the drums over the two others, the premium si to mid rangy to me.
Do you remember the signal chain for this recording? The mic pre etc... the signal art sounds great
15 years ago I made the mistake and bought SE Electronics Z5600A. I thought I was getting a "quality mic". Hated it for a long time. Now after modding the hell out of it I feel it has it's place in my mic locker abd words for some things but seriously... The cost to make it was peanuts to what I paid for it.
Hey what cab/speaker are you running that Bass through? I'd love to know that signal chain
mine has stopped working. after 2 years. has power. gain at max on interface has the tiniest of tiny levels showing. Possibly need to replace tube? any thoughts Dear Sir?
Do you use a boom mic to record these videos? What mic is it, or what recorder? I would love to know. thank you
I can hear the difference on TH-cam. The signal Arts reference 47 doesn’t have that dark top end that I’m used to from 47’s. This was especially apparent on the guitar, but it was clear on the vocal too. I expect that this is more like what tube U47’s sounded like 40 or 50 years ago. I liked the additional clarity, but it doesn’t really sound like what I have gotten used to as that U47 sound. You would have to be much more careful with mic placement, and sibilant vocals with the Signal Arts mic. The mass manufactured WA47 has a pleasant enough character to it. It’s just not quite as detailed.
I'm looking forward to hearing the WA67 modded by S.A
Interesting. Thanks for this. I wonder if Signal Art does a U48 or a 3 pattern? I use fig8 too much to make that my main workhorse.
Yes go to their website, they make a 47 and a 48 one with Cardioid/omni and one with Cardioid/fig 8.
At the price point the Signal Art is offered at I think I'd rather go with a Mojave Audio MA 300 or MA 1000. I just don't hear $2000 worth of quality out of the Signal Art imo
The mod isn't anything really special tbh, wish it was! But the Signal Art U47 has that 3d depth that you expect from an excellent mic like that....like your sitting there in the room and you can feel the acoustic vibrating against your chest as pluck the strings! Pretty impressive! On the guitar. On the drums, it didn't have that warmth that I heard on the only U47 I had the opportunity to use, ever! But fuck if my memory is absolutely correct. Although I've heard 1000's of recordings(raw of course)of different U47's, and of course the 3 major vsti microphones that copy it(Slate, Antelope{and all of theirs sound different, however the Quadro one sounded best TME}, and Townsend Labs-which sounded the hands down best between the 3 Modeling mics! Slate and Antelope tossed it back and forth depending on the mic, and modeling, the U47 Sounded best on the Slate, where the 251 sounded best on Antelope! But overall I think Slate might have an edge on Antelope as far as tone is concerned in their modeling. However, both fall flat compared to Townsend lab. At the same time I'd pic up the Slate for $500 Xmas price, no question about it! And their SDC modeling mic for $150? Every studio should have a dozen! Seriously! Their that good! Back to the mics, I honestly would rather get a Townsend Labs mic instead of paying for the Signal Art U47! The regular U47 I could see owning, I don't think as of this video, that the SA Mod is worth the extra cash, and might even hurt the sound of the mic on certain instruments, like drums, and bass! Acoustic Guitar, and singing....I like the SAU47 best, but drums and bass the regular old Warm sounds way fucking better, and anything with bass frequencies is harder to get right IMO..so it's not worth it, unfortunately! And the snare sounded way worse with SA U47! It sounded like it was recorded with a SM57, which is terrible for a tube mic to sound like...IMO!
Is there any explanation on what was replaced on the modified microphones?
YESSSSSS!!!!!
Very nice microphones. I own WA47, I like the modified version, and I really like the ART mic. Where can I get a price to mod my Wwa47 or the ART mic. thx for sharing.
www.signalartelectronics.com/
@@creativesoundlab thx for replying
I'm getting one of these :)
Yeah they are great mics for sure.
With the signal art it sound like they are better musicians
I can't hear the difference, they all sound good. I think my hearing isn't very good.
You're not alone
maybe a better headphone?
Ath m50x, I try to hear a difference. I think yeara of playing in loud bands, and I also never took care of my hearing. Wish I had cause my mixes seem like they are getting worse. I try so hard too, it is frustrating. Thinking about getting my ears professionally cleaned. Has anyone tried that?
luckyrobotgamer DOGE I got my ears cleaned but for a different reason I had to get custom fitting flat hearing protection made. After the cleaning I felt like I could hear a bit more high end for 1 day after that everything was normal again so I don’t know if it will help.
luckyrobotgamer DOGE just keep mixing and ask other people to critique your mix so you know where the problem areas are and what you need to compensate for while mixing.
is the mod wa47 with pio cap and Sylvania 5751
How do you find the WA-47 man?
Do you know make/model of guitar?
As far as I understand, you send him an 'old second hand car' and get back a Rolls Royce?
It is a nice story, but you don't 'hear' silver wire or silver solder. It seems most modifications are mainly cosmetic, or 'good to know'. Sorry, no mods for me! (There is a lot of psychology in audio, 'if it is expensive, it MUST be good'!)
U47is much nicer but i dont know price difference! Usually warm price is amazing for all!
Umm, I think it’s $900, 1400 and 1900 for the three.
This is so stupid, but the from scratch mic would be perfect if had as beautiful of a headbasket as the real U47. The sound is end game type amazing!
Yeah true. There is something sexy about the originals. Chad talks about this on his website but I’ll try to paraphrase. It basically comes down to cost and even noise issues that are avoided.
@@creativesoundlab I understand. Neumann puts a big chunk of the production costs to make the exterior look beautiful. Personally I wouldn't mind paying 200$ extra for that kind of aesthetic, but I am probably pretty alone with this.
Could you hear much difference in a crowded mix.
Walter Kasper Yes especially if they’ve all been recorded with a good mic. Vocal stacks, for example, really showcase the differences.
Yeah, even more so. Elements just seem to jump out of the speakers.
I know almost exactly what Chad Kelly does as far as modding and building from scratch (because I've modded/built 100's of mics over 12 years as a hobby) but out of respect for what he does I won't divulge won't say what it is. :-)
He lays out a very detailed and lengthy statement on exactly what he does to the mics on his mods on his signal art page. For the price of the mods and all involve, it’s an incredible value. He even mods the PSU and 7pin cable, all included. You should take a look at all he does. It’s open source.
The stock WA-47 was awful on the kick drum but it was the best on bass guitar. Very strange!
So manzzzzz can y like tell people that I’ve moved on to also making clones. Bc new stuff is dumb. So I really haven’t moved on
Joey rocks!! NaughtyNala.com for more of his music