Watch Prof Lieu's stream where she announces her reasons for leaving her teaching position at RISD in order to focus 100% on Art Prof: th-cam.com/video/TOLuEBiD3-Q/w-d-xo.html
I'm not in arts academia and never have been, but after listening to this, I became even more enthusiastic for the ArtProf model. So I ran over to Patreon and showed my support. Keep up the inspiring work.
I am sorry to hear about the abuse from senior staff! This happens too often and I’m happy to hear that you’re going independent with Art Prof and exiting the toxic environment!
I’m glad you’re talking about this. I had an art professor that was very abusive. She’d yell and scream at students, tell them they weren’t as good as they thought they were, and then she’d flirt with the young guys. She yelled at one young woman that her work was shit. I went to the department head about it, telling them that she was clearly emotionally unstable (I’d been a therapist) and nothing was done. At the end of the semester I told her she was leaving a trail of bloody students in her path. A couple years after I was gone I found out that she was made the department head! It took me around 10 years to get the destructive things she said to me out of my mind, and I was paying to LEARN! It was so stressful. Nuff said😤😤😤
It’s like your describing my art college teacher back in 2008 word for word! She was horrendous, constantly belittling all of the students and their artistic abilities, women especially, & constantly flirting inappropriately with the young male students. I also was unfortunate enough to have her as my college advisor, & as a naive 18 year old, I ended up taking her advice to drop two particular classes that I wasn’t doing well in due to health problems (I had missed classes & wasn’t allowed an exception due to health problems, another issue in general in academia), which then caused me to lose the entirety of my funding. She smugly told me I should have known this would have happened myself after I confronted her about her “advice”, thrilled to have helped get rid of me from the school. Not only was it an elitist cesspool all on its own, but professors like this were constantly being elevated to higher & higher positions in these settings.
This isn’t happening only in Art Colleges. This is happening in all areas of the curriculum. It is quite disgusting. Adjunct and teaching professors are abused, looked down on and paid poorly.
Wow. This video really speaks to me. I got my MFA from a great art school in NYC and was represented by a great gallery in Chelsea and never even got my foot in the door for adjunct limbo. Adjunct limbo is if you're lucky! I never even got a serious look. I got tired of sending out applications and eventually had to come up with a new game plan and teach art at the high school level...which involved getting certified and taking a lot of tests but I've got benefits and a middle class salary now but I miss NYC. Your videos are excellent. Thanks.
I’m so glad you’re talking about this. I’ve been an adjunct for the past 25+ years, and every semester, I worry that I’ll not be rehired or have the number of courses I teach significantly cut. And, of course, there is the whole being devalued situation despite the fact that most of us have the same or better credentials and experience the “regular” tenure track professors do. Anyway, I could go on and on. By the way, I have a Ph.D. and multiple publications and conference presentations in addition to University service.
I was sexually harassed by a 'famous" tenured artist professor during my MFA program. He made my official complaint dissapear (I was not the only one) I generally loved my MFA program but this was a dark stain. I hope ME TOO and a growing awareness of racism is changing this behavior.
That's horrible, we're so sorry you had such a bad experience-- I feel like so many people can relate to this. Hopefully we can begin changing the way people behave in environments like this - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
No one should take a job that doesn't pay a living wage. Too long (starting in the late 70's) the general working class has had the corporate mentality of us working more than one job forced down our throats. One used to work a lifetime at one place because they cared and treated you as family. Now, you're just a number--a tool through which they (the corporation, the university) makes money. It's time to retire this mindset since it's never served our purpose. Prof. Lieu, I'm very thankful for who you are and what you believe in. I'm also glad you were such a great mentor to all your students during your 16 years at RISD and to all of your future mentees here on Art Prof. God bless you and all whose lives you touch. You are a blessing to the World. ❤ --KateColors
I’m some one who loves art, but can’t afford to take classes and can’t go back to school any time soon. I just got into art prof in the last month, because I’ve been stuck at home, and I am so grateful! Thank you for your honesty, transparency, and inspiration!
Thank you so much for watching! Welcome to the Art Prof Family, we are so glad to have you. We would love for you to join our Discord Server, we have tons of conversations everyday about art, and you can post your work for critiques from our staff and other people too! Here is the invite link: discord.gg/g5XQRpT - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
I'm in the academics, but not in art and not in the US, and it's the same issues here. I'm about to get my phd degree after five years of part time teaching in my university, and the fact that each year or semester, it's the same struggle and worry about if i'll have some work or not is really tiresome. I think i could not do that for my whole career. Thank you so much for speaking about this topic which is not very known outside the doors of the academic world! And thanks so much for launching art prof! It really helped me soothing a regret i've had to never be able to afford to go to an art school! I learned a lot with your videos and website! Thank you to all the team!
I am chuckling at this talk because this is me. My way of compensating for the fear of vast yearly financial changes dependent upon how many gigs I may or may not get was to live in my SUV...10 years now. Because I don't pay rent, I am able to make it work. I don't have to worry about losing my home or not being able to pat rent. Also, I am a veteran and so I have health care. I love Clara Lieu! So glad you stepped out and then stepped up as Art Prof. And that you are doing these kinds of talks. I link to your videos frequently so students know you exist beyond the institution.
Thank you for speaking on this! Glad you’re leaving a toxic environment behind and excited to see you continue to share your passion and expertise in a healthier, more collaborative platform!
Seems like it should be neither “you get rehired every semester” OR “we can never fire you ever even if you begin to suck at your job” but rather, like every other job I’ve ever heard of, you get hired, and as long as you keep doing your job well, you keep your job!
Adjunct prof here! I work full time in a nursing home dementia neighborhood doing an LPN job for $13/hour working 12 hour shifts on Fridays Saturdays and Sundays and last semester taught 4 classes between 2 schools on mondays-thursdays. This semester I will be teaching 3 classes. I teach at 2 schools that are both an hour away from me. One school pays me $3500 a class and one pays $2700 a class. Last semester I had to drive between schools which was 30 minutes from eachother. I may stop teaching so I can get a job that pays more and has a schedule that has weekends off. Between all of my jobs and as much as I work I'm thrilled when I make around $35000 a year. I get no personal time to work on my art and the lack of security and academic freedom is very stressful. Also the switch to teaching online takes the best part away which is the interaction with students!
Watching and responding. When I was in grad school there were huge issues in the program I went to. We wrote a letter with all of the specific problems in the program and named specific professors. We had multiple professors who would literally not show up to class, just forget about our class or meetings. We had all the grad students read and sign the letter and sent the letter to the president with a request for a meeting. Speaking with students still in the program it seemed the president took the meeting quite seriously and started making changes to the program. No-one got fired but we also stated we didn't want anyone to be terminated.
In the schools I've taught at I've often been the only differently abled teacher/ My fellow artists/teachers who were also queer, poc, differently abled, Immigrants, or religious minorities were all adjuncts and the full time were overwhelmingly white/ male/ cis/ able-bodied
I am glad you are bringing this topic to light. I am very lucky as I have been full time high school in a good district for just going on 25 years. I have also been teaching adjunct for the past 7 years. We get 4,000 per class Which is amazing. I could never only adjunct. I wouldn’t be able to quit high school, which I am ready to do, because I wouldn’t be able to afford to live. I love art and love teaching but wow it can be stressful. I am so very sorry this has happened to you but I think it is what needed to happen for your own growth. I have followed you since your blog. I have learned so much and you have helped me to improve in my art and my teaching. I look forward to many more years of Art Prof!!!❤️
I have always had trouble with the lack of transparency concerning my experiences, so i comment on a 3 year old video :D When i started my studies in a material related department at a "renowned" european art school, i was already in the beginning of my 30s. Before I did a traditional craft education and worked several years in this profession. It really did not take a long time until i was the contact person for many other students, while I earned the money for my fees with my craft jobs. In the beginning I thought as well "Oh there could be a job in sight, so maybe I need to proof myself", but at a certain point (years) i got really fed up, also since many of the teachers did not really take their job very serious. Some were on residencies for one or two semesters, without any replacement. The technicians on the other hand were burned out, which is of course the reason why I often had to jump in. Not any kind of critic was possible, since there always had been sanctions for the students who complained before. So it became an incredibly toxic environment. Not only for me. Many years later I applied as a studio technician at another art school and got extremely far in the application process. But already during the talks with a few technicians from other workshops, the extreme hierarchy between the intellectual and the technical jobs (ok not surprising) at this school had been pointed ou to me several times. As well as the massive work load. In the end someone with a bigger exhibition record got the job, clearly not because of her technical knowledge. Even later some students I knew complained about the amount of bad advice or broken works. In the end I was happy that I didn't get the job, because I don't think i would have liked to be in such an environment again, so no bitterness, even if it sounds like it. Overall the level of absurdity concerning the value of my knowledge and skills in this profession (now 20 years) pushed me to let go of all kind of rules (aesthetic, conceptual etc.) that had been expected from my predominant material. Now i feel much more free, but would not have minded to get demoralized a little bit less from these kind of institutions :-)
This happens in the IT world as well, contract vs full time. It is very upsetting. When you are picking a college one of your criteria should be how many professor s are tenured in your department of study. Don't go to a school that doesn't have 90 to 95% tenure or full time staff in your department. If the school can't recruits new students they will have to change there ways.
That's a very good point!! Thank you so much for watching-- if you enjoyed this video, you might also like this one about toxic artist stereotypes: th-cam.com/video/Uqy7kNyyivk/w-d-xo.html - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
Its not that bad here in Germany. But to get high academic positions in any field you have to have personal connections and lick boots and kiss butts. Plus the perfect degree as basis. Thats why you go to uni here, to make connections buddy up with profs. It already starts with internships...
When I was a student, I was unfortunately exposed to school politics because I was an ambassador. We had one so-called professor who was so awful that the students started a petition. They approached me with it, and I told them I was just going to turn a blind eye but could not join their protest because of my position as an ambassador and tutor. It SUCKED that I had to keep my opinion to myself because it may affect my position as the middle (wo)man between students and faculty. I also caused a stir when another ambassador joined me to help another student who was hungry. The school didn’t want the image of impoverished students getting out there.
Art Prof: Create & Critique I’m still incredibly proud of the students who go there. When there is injustice, like a recent sit-in to protest extremely low wages the school pays some employees, things change. When students do things here, it makes the news, and the school is shamed into making changes because they’re tied to so many powerful people, world renown research, and national politics with the Presidential debates. They don’t want to hurt their endowments.
Building upon the latest comment and Prof. Liu's reply, why can adjuncting negatively impact full-time employment? Additionally, does "years of adjunct" experience after graduation also matter?
It's very hard to explain, but once you are at a place as an adjunct for "too long," about 5 years, you're past your prime in academia. Makes no sense, I know! Usually people I knew who got full-time jobs had about 1-5 years of adjunct experience, rarely more than that. After that, for most adjuncts, your ships have sailed. -Prof Lieu
Studying art is not financially sensible especially if you're borrowing tons of money. Art colleges should disclose to their students the reality that they won't be able to make a decent living with art degrees.
I've been adjuncting off and on since I got my MFA in 2013 and I've had to teach in multiple schools, teaching classes that don't interest me, and feeling thoroughly depressed about the state of my career. I feel grateful I could get insurance from ssdi because the school's sure won't provide it.
Makes me wonder about academics outside of art school. I never went to Art School (except partially pursued a Studio Art at a University that had an Art Department), but the University that I did get an English degree from, I do remember there were a few adjunct professors and I never understood the 'adjunct' type. I just assumed it was technical term, but every professor did the same amount of work and got the same amount of privilege. There was a Gender Studies class I took and the professor was an African American Adjunct Professor, and I remember seeing the interaction between my advisor (who was a full-time english prof. white male who would get opportunities to travel a lot via the school) and I did notice there was a hierarchy even in the observed interaction.
I have always wanted to be a professor, but I never had any idea about this situation. If offered an adjunct job is it a good stepping stone to being a professor or should you find something else and keep applying for a job as a professor.
I hope that my comment here is helpful to some. If you are looking at adjunct teaching positions look at the state schools first over the private institutions. The state schools have to conduct national searches. These schools must comply with state regulations and all positions have to go through a social equity board to insure that someone's brother, best friend, spouse etc. is not being hired simply because they know someone on up in a high place at that particular institution.
Yes, very important to look at a range of schools! To clarify for others seeing this comment, note that there is a difference between applying as an adjunct vs. a tenure track full-time position. For a tenure track full-time position, all schools, regardless of whether they are private or state do national searches. It's for the adjunct positions that do not do national searches. -Prof Lieu
i am a preschool teacher and the same thing was going on at the last school i was at - loved teaching but hated all the politics and it felt like they didn't care as much about the kids as they cared about how the school looked to prospective parents.
You can if you apply for a full-time position and get the job, but that's totally separate from being an adjunct. And unfortunately, most of the time being an adjunct can impact you negatively if you apply for a full time position at a school you are an adjunct at. -Prof Lieu
I am full-time NTT and yes salaried with benefits, but we are also exploited so much we are made to work like 60 hours/week for pennies and there is NEVER any appreciation from the admin. We are second-class citizens, but I know for a fact that my situation as a full-time is still a thousand times better than an adjunct. Academia is turning into dirt very rapidly.
Yup, they always say, "do it for the love of learning! Do it for the students!" But that shouldn't be an excuse to overburden and underpay hardworking professors. -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
seems like an adjunct is something you do for a short while to gain experience and resume bonus and then move on. not something to rely as a paycheck on.
It's sad to see you guys who have passion in teaching. When my experience as student was exactly what you said about tenured profs. One just mumbled down a script for 2 hours. The other was some well renowned ass**** who called student "dumb" and "retarded". Another had no clue how to teach and just got the position bcs he's been in the field for decades. We had one teacher who was trying to get a position as Prof. Extremly passioned and hard working I think she really wanted to renew the faculty, but she had unrealistic expectations for the workload of her students.
I have been in the academic system as an adjunct and know how colleges exploit them. Universities charge huge dollars for student tuition and pay so little to adjuncts that adjuncts are paid so little they are often eligible for food stamps. I got out, too, and am happily in Adult Education (teaching high school equivalency).
It is such a corrupt and unfair system, we are so happy you have found happiness outside of academia! Thank you so much for watching this video, we are glad you resonated with it :) - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
I could never understand the idea of a tenured professor - why would it be good? I cannot think of any other job, where if you are doing crap job and show no results you would still be employed... Why not just have more full time professors?
It's true, at least in this day and age, the all-or-nothing hiring mentality of art schools is really counterproductive. -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
I know this was filmed along time ago but….. my God Prof Lieu I’m so pissed that you were overlooked so many time. Yes I’m biased lol but geesh how many wonderful teachers were or are In that position!! Did they ever say why they passed on you for the two interviews you did get? Well it was destiny anyway, because all of us around the world now benefit from your amazing teaching!! Their loss and our gain!!
People rarely ever follow up about why you don't get a position, it's terrible. But I agree, we're all better off having Clara with us! -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
I have experienced most of what you went through or talked about, not as an adjunct, but as a teacher. In spite of watching this video a year later, I just had to comment. I'm wondering and hoping that something did come out of it.
I'm sorry to hear that you have experienced this horrible treatment as well. Academic jobs still have the same challenges, but Clara has been succeeding at turning Art Prof into her full time job. -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
Watch Prof Lieu's stream where she announces her reasons for leaving her teaching position at RISD in order to focus 100% on Art Prof: th-cam.com/video/TOLuEBiD3-Q/w-d-xo.html
I'm not in arts academia and never have been, but after listening to this, I became even more enthusiastic for the ArtProf model. So I ran over to Patreon and showed my support. Keep up the inspiring work.
Thank you for your support!! -Prof Lieu
I am sorry to hear about the abuse from senior staff! This happens too often and I’m happy to hear that you’re going independent with Art Prof and exiting the toxic environment!
I’m glad you’re talking about this. I had an art professor that was very abusive. She’d yell and scream at students, tell them they weren’t as good as they thought they were, and then she’d flirt with the young guys. She yelled at one young woman that her work was shit.
I went to the department head about it, telling them that she was clearly emotionally unstable (I’d been a therapist) and nothing was done. At the end of the semester I told her she was leaving a trail of bloody students in her path. A couple years after I was gone I found out that she was made the department head! It took me around 10 years to get the destructive things she said to me out of my mind, and I was paying to LEARN! It was so stressful. Nuff said😤😤😤
Really bad to be kept 10 years in that position. Legislation is needed.
It’s like your describing my art college teacher back in 2008 word for word! She was horrendous, constantly belittling all of the students and their artistic abilities, women especially, & constantly flirting inappropriately with the young male students. I also was unfortunate enough to have her as my college advisor, & as a naive 18 year old, I ended up taking her advice to drop two particular classes that I wasn’t doing well in due to health problems (I had missed classes & wasn’t allowed an exception due to health problems, another issue in general in academia), which then caused me to lose the entirety of my funding. She smugly told me I should have known this would have happened myself after I confronted her about her “advice”, thrilled to have helped get rid of me from the school. Not only was it an elitist cesspool all on its own, but professors like this were constantly being elevated to higher & higher positions in these settings.
Nursing instructors do the same
@@ttapioca5who was that?
This isn’t happening only in Art Colleges. This is happening in all areas of the curriculum. It is quite disgusting. Adjunct and teaching professors are abused, looked down on and paid poorly.
"This is happening in all areas of the curriculum." ABSOLUTELY.
Wow. This video really speaks to me. I got my MFA from a great art school in NYC and was represented by a great gallery in Chelsea and never even got my foot in the door for adjunct limbo. Adjunct limbo is if you're lucky! I never even got a serious look. I got tired of sending out applications and eventually had to come up with a new game plan and teach art at the high school level...which involved getting certified and taking a lot of tests but I've got benefits and a middle class salary now but I miss NYC. Your videos are excellent. Thanks.
I’m so glad you’re talking about this. I’ve been an adjunct for the past 25+ years, and every semester, I worry that I’ll not be rehired or have the number of courses I teach significantly cut. And, of course, there is the whole being devalued situation despite the fact that most of us have the same or better credentials and experience the “regular” tenure track professors do. Anyway, I could go on and on. By the way, I have a Ph.D. and multiple publications and conference presentations in addition to University service.
I was sexually harassed by a 'famous" tenured artist professor during my MFA program. He made my official complaint dissapear (I was not the only one) I generally loved my MFA program but this was a dark stain. I hope ME TOO and a growing awareness of racism is changing this behavior.
That's horrible, we're so sorry you had such a bad experience-- I feel like so many people can relate to this. Hopefully we can begin changing the way people behave in environments like this - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
@flower meadows not really possible now
No one should take a job that doesn't pay a living wage. Too long (starting in the late 70's) the general working class has had the corporate mentality of us working more than one job forced down our throats. One used to work a lifetime at one place because they cared and treated you as family. Now, you're just a number--a tool through which they (the corporation, the university) makes money. It's time to retire this mindset since it's never served our purpose.
Prof. Lieu, I'm very thankful for who you are and what you believe in. I'm also glad you were such a great mentor to all your students during your 16 years at RISD and to all of your future mentees here on Art Prof. God bless you and all whose lives you touch. You are a blessing to the World. ❤ --KateColors
This is 100% my present reality. So sorry you had to go through this but excited to check out Art Prof!
We're so sorry-- hang in there! - Mia, Art Prof Staff
I’m some one who loves art, but can’t afford to take classes and can’t go back to school any time soon. I just got into art prof in the last month, because I’ve been stuck at home, and I am so grateful! Thank you for your honesty, transparency, and inspiration!
Thank you so much for watching! Welcome to the Art Prof Family, we are so glad to have you. We would love for you to join our Discord Server, we have tons of conversations everyday about art, and you can post your work for critiques from our staff and other people too! Here is the invite link: discord.gg/g5XQRpT - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
just joined thanks to this invite! :)
I love how open you both are.
I'm in the academics, but not in art and not in the US, and it's the same issues here. I'm about to get my phd degree after five years of part time teaching in my university, and the fact that each year or semester, it's the same struggle and worry about if i'll have some work or not is really tiresome. I think i could not do that for my whole career. Thank you so much for speaking about this topic which is not very known outside the doors of the academic world!
And thanks so much for launching art prof! It really helped me soothing a regret i've had to never be able to afford to go to an art school! I learned a lot with your videos and website! Thank you to all the team!
Ugh, yes, it does seem like this is the case no matter what field you are in! Tysm for your support!!! -Prof Lieu
I am chuckling at this talk because this is me. My way of compensating for the fear of vast yearly financial changes dependent upon how many gigs I may or may not get was to live in my SUV...10 years now. Because I don't pay rent, I am able to make it work. I don't have to worry about losing my home or not being able to pat rent. Also, I am a veteran and so I have health care. I love Clara Lieu! So glad you stepped out and then stepped up as Art Prof. And that you are doing these kinds of talks. I link to your videos frequently so students know you exist beyond the institution.
Thank you for speaking on this! Glad you’re leaving a toxic environment behind and excited to see you continue to share your passion and expertise in a healthier, more collaborative platform!
I'm sorry about your experience. I hope you have great success doing Art Prof.
Seems like it should be neither “you get rehired every semester” OR “we can never fire you ever even if you begin to suck at your job” but rather, like every other job I’ve ever heard of, you get hired, and as long as you keep doing your job well, you keep your job!
Thank you so much for what you do! You changed my life ❤️
So glad to have you discussing this. I recently quit adjunct teaching too.
We hope you found some solace in this video!!! Onwards and upwards, we wish you all the best :) - Mia, Art Prof Staff
Adjunct prof here! I work full time in a nursing home dementia neighborhood doing an LPN job for $13/hour working 12 hour shifts on Fridays Saturdays and Sundays and last semester taught 4 classes between 2 schools on mondays-thursdays. This semester I will be teaching 3 classes.
I teach at 2 schools that are both an hour away from me. One school pays me $3500 a class and one pays $2700 a class. Last semester I had to drive between schools which was 30 minutes from eachother.
I may stop teaching so I can get a job that pays more and has a schedule that has weekends off. Between all of my jobs and as much as I work I'm thrilled when I make around $35000 a year.
I get no personal time to work on my art and the lack of security and academic freedom is very stressful. Also the switch to teaching online takes the best part away which is the interaction with students!
Watching and responding.
When I was in grad school there were huge issues in the program I went to. We wrote a letter with all of the specific problems in the program and named specific professors. We had multiple professors who would literally not show up to class, just forget about our class or meetings. We had all the grad students read and sign the letter and sent the letter to the president with a request for a meeting. Speaking with students still in the program it seemed the president took the meeting quite seriously and started making changes to the program. No-one got fired but we also stated we didn't want anyone to be terminated.
Yikes, this is a story I’ve seen over and over again, doesn’t matter which school or subject. -Prof Lieu
In the schools I've taught at I've often been the only differently abled teacher/ My fellow artists/teachers who were also queer, poc, differently abled, Immigrants, or religious minorities were all adjuncts and the full time were overwhelmingly white/ male/ cis/ able-bodied
I am glad you are bringing this topic to light. I am very lucky as I have been full time high school in a good district for just going on 25 years. I have also been teaching adjunct for the past 7 years. We get 4,000 per class Which is amazing. I could never only adjunct. I wouldn’t be able to quit high school, which I am ready to do, because I wouldn’t be able to afford to live. I love art and love teaching but wow it can be stressful. I am so very sorry this has happened to you but I think it is what needed to happen for your own growth. I have followed you since your blog. I have learned so much and you have helped me to improve in my art and my teaching. I look forward to many more years of Art Prof!!!❤️
I have always had trouble with the lack of transparency concerning my experiences, so i comment on a 3 year old video :D
When i started my studies in a material related department at a "renowned" european art school, i was already in the beginning of my 30s. Before I did a traditional craft education and worked several years in this profession. It really did not take a long time until i was the contact person for many other students, while I earned the money for my fees with my craft jobs. In the beginning I thought as well "Oh there could be a job in sight, so maybe I need to proof myself", but at a certain point (years) i got really fed up, also since many of the teachers did not really take their job very serious. Some were on residencies for one or two semesters, without any replacement. The technicians on the other hand were burned out, which is of course the reason why I often had to jump in.
Not any kind of critic was possible, since there always had been sanctions for the students who complained before. So it became an incredibly toxic environment. Not only for me.
Many years later I applied as a studio technician at another art school and got extremely far in the application process.
But already during the talks with a few technicians from other workshops, the extreme hierarchy between the intellectual and the technical jobs (ok not surprising) at this school had been pointed ou to me several times. As well as the massive work load.
In the end someone with a bigger exhibition record got the job, clearly not because of her technical knowledge. Even later some students I knew complained about the amount of bad advice or broken works. In the end I was happy that I didn't get the job, because I don't think i would have liked to be in such an environment again, so no bitterness, even if it sounds like it.
Overall the level of absurdity concerning the value of my knowledge and skills in this profession (now 20 years) pushed me to let go of all kind of rules (aesthetic, conceptual etc.) that had been expected from my predominant material. Now i feel much more free, but would not have minded to get demoralized a little bit less from these kind of institutions :-)
thankyou for sharing this is so important to talk about
This topic was so informative and so factual. Praises to you!
We are so glad you think so!! - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
This happens in the IT world as well, contract vs full time. It is very upsetting. When you are picking a college one of your criteria should be how many professor s are tenured in your department of study. Don't go to a school that doesn't have 90 to 95% tenure or full time staff in your department. If the school can't recruits new students they will have to change there ways.
That's a very good point!! Thank you so much for watching-- if you enjoyed this video, you might also like this one about toxic artist stereotypes: th-cam.com/video/Uqy7kNyyivk/w-d-xo.html - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
Its not that bad here in Germany. But to get high academic positions in any field you have to have personal connections and lick boots and kiss butts. Plus the perfect degree as basis. Thats why you go to uni here, to make connections buddy up with profs. It already starts with internships...
When I was a student, I was unfortunately exposed to school politics because I was an ambassador. We had one so-called professor who was so awful that the students started a petition. They approached me with it, and I told them I was just going to turn a blind eye but could not join their protest because of my position as an ambassador and tutor. It SUCKED that I had to keep my opinion to myself because it may affect my position as the middle (wo)man between students and faculty. I also caused a stir when another ambassador joined me to help another student who was hungry. The school didn’t want the image of impoverished students getting out there.
That’s horrific, so awful that I am not surprised when I hear terrible stories like this from academia. -Prof Lieu
Art Prof: Create & Critique I’m still incredibly proud of the students who go there. When there is injustice, like a recent sit-in to protest extremely low wages the school pays some employees, things change. When students do things here, it makes the news, and the school is shamed into making changes because they’re tied to so many powerful people, world renown research, and national politics with the Presidential debates. They don’t want to hurt their endowments.
Building upon the latest comment and Prof. Liu's reply, why can adjuncting negatively impact full-time employment? Additionally, does "years of adjunct" experience after graduation also matter?
It's very hard to explain, but once you are at a place as an adjunct for "too long," about 5 years, you're past your prime in academia. Makes no sense, I know! Usually people I knew who got full-time jobs had about 1-5 years of adjunct experience, rarely more than that. After that, for most adjuncts, your ships have sailed. -Prof Lieu
As an adjunct you make just enough to be able to keep your job. I had to move back with my mom at 28 when I was an adjunct. It’s ridiculous.
Ha, I also was living with my parents when I was an adjunct at 28. It's the hard truth. -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
Studying art is not financially sensible especially if you're borrowing tons of money. Art colleges should disclose to their students the reality that they won't be able to make a decent living with art degrees.
I've been adjuncting off and on since I got my MFA in 2013 and I've had to teach in multiple schools, teaching classes that don't interest me, and feeling thoroughly depressed about the state of my career. I feel grateful I could get insurance from ssdi because the school's sure won't provide it.
Makes me wonder about academics outside of art school. I never went to Art School (except partially pursued a Studio Art at a University that had an Art Department), but the University that I did get an English degree from, I do remember there were a few adjunct professors and I never understood the 'adjunct' type. I just assumed it was technical term, but every professor did the same amount of work and got the same amount of privilege. There was a Gender Studies class I took and the professor was an African American Adjunct Professor, and I remember seeing the interaction between my advisor (who was a full-time english prof. white male who would get opportunities to travel a lot via the school) and I did notice there was a hierarchy even in the observed interaction.
School of Visual Arts in NY has NO full time faculty positions. ALL teachers are adjuncts. The tuition for undergrads is 43,400 USD
Booooo! 👎 👎👎 -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
I have always wanted to be a professor, but I never had any idea about this situation. If offered an adjunct job is it a good stepping stone to being a professor or should you find something else and keep applying for a job as a professor.
Thank you, Dr. Lieu, for posting the disturbing truth.
No wonder you had depression. This is so good for you to out what happened to you
2/3 of faculty adjunct 🤯🤯🤯
I hope that my comment here is helpful to some. If you are looking at adjunct teaching positions look at the state schools first over the private institutions. The state schools have to conduct national searches. These schools must comply with state regulations and all positions have to go through a social equity board to insure that someone's brother, best friend, spouse etc. is not being hired simply because they know someone on up in a high place at that particular institution.
Yes, very important to look at a range of schools! To clarify for others seeing this comment, note that there is a difference between applying as an adjunct vs. a tenure track full-time position. For a tenure track full-time position, all schools, regardless of whether they are private or state do national searches. It's for the adjunct positions that do not do national searches. -Prof Lieu
i am a preschool teacher and the same thing was going on at the last school i was at - loved teaching but hated all the politics and it felt like they didn't care as much about the kids as they cared about how the school looked to prospective parents.
That's a really good way of putting it-- almost as if the students were pawns :/ - Mia, Art Prof Staff
Is there a way for an adjunct/part time professor to gain full time status? Or are they stuck in that position forever 👀
You can if you apply for a full-time position and get the job, but that's totally separate from being an adjunct. And unfortunately, most of the time being an adjunct can impact you negatively if you apply for a full time position at a school you are an adjunct at. -Prof Lieu
I am full-time NTT and yes salaried with benefits, but we are also exploited so much we are made to work like 60 hours/week for pennies and there is NEVER any appreciation from the admin. We are second-class citizens, but I know for a fact that my situation as a full-time is still a thousand times better than an adjunct. Academia is turning into dirt very rapidly.
Yup, they always say, "do it for the love of learning! Do it for the students!" But that shouldn't be an excuse to overburden and underpay hardworking professors. -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
seems like an adjunct is something you do for a short while to gain experience and resume bonus and then move on. not something to rely as a paycheck on.
It's sad to see you guys who have passion in teaching. When my experience as student was exactly what you said about tenured profs. One just mumbled down a script for 2 hours. The other was some well renowned ass**** who called student "dumb" and "retarded". Another had no clue how to teach and just got the position bcs he's been in the field for decades. We had one teacher who was trying to get a position as Prof. Extremly passioned and hard working I think she really wanted to renew the faculty, but she had unrealistic expectations for the workload of her students.
I have been in the academic system as an adjunct and know how colleges exploit them. Universities charge huge dollars for student tuition and pay so little to adjuncts that adjuncts are paid so little they are often eligible for food stamps. I got out, too, and am happily in Adult Education (teaching high school equivalency).
It is such a corrupt and unfair system, we are so happy you have found happiness outside of academia! Thank you so much for watching this video, we are glad you resonated with it :) - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
I could never understand the idea of a tenured professor - why would it be good? I cannot think of any other job, where if you are doing crap job and show no results you would still be employed... Why not just have more full time professors?
It's true, at least in this day and age, the all-or-nothing hiring mentality of art schools is really counterproductive. -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
I know this was filmed along time ago but….. my God Prof Lieu I’m so pissed that you were overlooked so many time. Yes I’m biased lol but geesh how many wonderful teachers were or are In that position!! Did they ever say why they passed on you for the two interviews you did get? Well it was destiny anyway, because all of us around the world now benefit from your amazing teaching!! Their loss and our gain!!
People rarely ever follow up about why you don't get a position, it's terrible. But I agree, we're all better off having Clara with us! -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
I have experienced most of what you went through or talked about, not as an adjunct, but as a teacher. In spite of watching this video a year later, I just had to comment. I'm wondering and hoping that something did come out of it.
I'm sorry to hear that you have experienced this horrible treatment as well. Academic jobs still have the same challenges, but Clara has been succeeding at turning Art Prof into her full time job. -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist
Maybe it's because I'm 72, and my Bucket list is now spelled with an F, but I can't imagine how you manage to pay your bills and survive this??
Haha, it's wild to imagine!! - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
not just racism but probably jealousy as well
Absolutely, and that combo never goes well together (or separately) - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
It's exploitation. Glad you got out.
Indeed!! - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
How awful!!! This needs to be exposed big time....I can name two professors that actually taught me..out of 10
Oof, I relate to this.... - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
I’d like to see all adjuncts walk off their jobs simultaneously.
Ugh that would be AMAZING - Mia, Art Prof Staff
That’s so true about the no teachers of color.
I know, it's insane! - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
It’s usuary, like zero hour contracts. SHAKE THE DUST OFF YOUR 🦶 FEET. move on you are so worth more. Back heel them as my Irish dad us ed to say,
Haha, I love those sayings! - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
QUEEEEEEEEENS
And yet the tuition keeps going up
What a world, what a world :( - Mia Rozear, Art Prof Staff
I think you may have been discriminated against
In 2003, only 27% of tenured faculty at 4 year institutions were women. By 2016, that number had actually declined to 26%.
the question is, does it look good to the old farts who donate money to the school? Money, money, money...
It's also an issue in public schools! -Lauryn, Art Prof Teaching Artist