How to solo on Girl from Ipanema
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- Is this the hardest most commonly played jazz song to solo over? Find out how to play it easily in any key.
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I feel like my music education is so deficient. My college jazz instructor never got into this. I've got some learning to do. Thanks for being so thorough and detailed. Now I'm inspired.
Antonio Jobin, the original composer, never wrote chords for Girl from Ipanema. Somebody else imposed those friggin' chords. Musicians are NOT supposed to play chords because chords are consequential; they depend on arrangement. We are supposed to play MOVEMENTS. Chords are the tyranny of failed jazz educators, who can't see the forest for the trees. You only need a melody and a music key /key change, and only then choose chords accordingly but only if needed and when needed.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 Deep!
Isn't it akin to speaking - acceptably - at age two without being taught grammatical rules of, for example, parts-of-speech, parsing, juxtaposition, phonemes, morphemes, semantics, clause analysis?
Or is it?
Empericist vs Rationalist Approach when it's a question of learning to speak or to play music - any genre... Which approach?
Whole Language Musical Approach?
As an educator, I am often confronted with such conflicting view points - ad infinitum.
What of an "eclectic" approach, without necessarily being pedantic?
Again, excellent thought!
@@wyndhleodumegwu253 The chords are used to build harmony. They depend on the melody and the music key the melody is in. For example, if a song (melody progression) is composed in F major, then the harmony is constructed around it, and corresponding chords are used. Which chords? It depends on the instruments available for the accompaniment. (For example, the pianist can play more complex chords than a double bass player). The choice of chords will also depend on which exact spot in the melody you want to harmonise and how. And which spot is important, is also dictated by the rhythm and the purpose of orchestration: different chords will be used in different arrangements. E.g. Arrangement A for a recital, and Arrangement B for a dance performance. That is called "the arrangement". (For example: dancers like emphasis on the first beat in the bar; but for other occasions, maybe emphasis on 3rd beat in the bar is better. 1st beat and 3rd beat are different emphasis, with different melodic notes on top, and different chord change may be used to shift the emphasis from the 1st beat to the 3rd beat.)
However, if the arranger wants to change the key of the melody (say, if the singer can’t sing high notes of certain keys, as the original melody requires) the chords will change too. So, "talking about chords" without relation to 1. the melody, 2. the music key, and 3. available instruments is like putting a cart before the horse.
The saxophone is a melody instrument. The saxophone can't play a chord at once. But a piano can, and a guitar can. How shall the saxophone improvise/embellish on melody (if needed - improvisation/embellishment is NOT imperative), does not depend on chords directly, but it depends on possible (additional) melodic development.
What is “melodic development”? For example, if the original melody contains a half-note E at the end of the bar, and the arranger decided to go for a certain chord (harmony) below it, one who plays the melody (the saxophonist) may decide to substitute that half-note with a quarter note and several semiquavers that still sound good on top of that chord and, overall, give an impression that note “E” is being played but “with some good touch”. To play that “good touch”, the saxophonist does not need to use notes from the chord that the accompanying piano plays; no, he can borrow chromatic notes to make the melody “step out” further.
As a rule of thumb - the best improvisers/embellishers on melody don't play chord notes used by accompaniment, but they can compose on the spot an alternative take on a part of the melody, and still make it sound authentic and interesting. Although they are performers, they have strong composing abilities, they EXPLORED what that song is about, have a wealth of ideas, and are a cut above other performers.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 My gratitude to you for a very thoughtful and scholarly explanation, which I WILL preserve and, of course, share.
A million thanks again!
Take care, Zvonimir.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 You are completely right , people always forget that " jazz can be taught but jazz cannot be learned " Children learn to talk without any knowledge of Grammar , before learning how to read and write.
More like these...I remember teaching this tune for the first time out of an Aebersold with NO context. I blew over it, things were going well, student was bobbing their head. Then the B section hit and the rails came off. Love the discussion about substitutions. I've never had someone explain it so well. Subscribed. Please make a million of these!
I grew up in Argentina, a neighbor of Brazil, and we never had a problem understanding and playing genres like bossa nova, without complications or mess!
Not all can be played in a "jazzy" way if you want respect the essence and message of the songs.
His MELODY must be respected above the pretense of improvise.
So, don't get complicated with simple things.
Anyways, i enjoy your videos and agree with most of them😊
Hey man........thanks a million for putting this video together !!
I have adored this song since the first time I heard Stan Getz swing it when it came out in my middle school years...... but I have surely crashed and burned on it......TOO MANY TIMES.... as you say. And, I really dig your advice too; "don't write this down"...... just as i was looking for paper and pencil!!!
But what you say makes sense.......let the music take me there.....I love that!!
I will have to work through this video several times to get it "right" in my head........ but you surely have pointed me in the right direction.
VERY GRATEFUL to you......... keep THIS kind of stuff comin' please!!
This was a phenomenal video! Thank you so much. Your the first person who said it out loud..Ipanema is hard as ****
Glad it was helpful! LOL
You’re a legend! I’ve got an audition this week and this is super helpful
Thanks
You've got a relaxing, calm way of explaining stuff. Very good video👍
Possibly I misunderstood you, but that seems too complicated for me. My approach for the bridge is quite simple (key of F): The key goes up half a step to F#/Gbmaj and with the B7 chord changes from major to melodic minor (but thinking it from the 4th step=B, also that makes the B7 a #11 of course). Repeat that for the next 4 bars in Amaj, then in Bbmaj always first major then melodic minor. Yes, the chord played is the relative minor respectively but that''s just a sub Jobim makes all the time. The movement repeats - and that reflects nicely the idea behind the original melody - and it's always major to melodic minor on the 4th step. One could call it a modal approach if you want so.
The D7 is not in the key of "F" and that seems to be where most people really fall apart when soloing on this. This method is really effective when playing this in different keys because I'm only thinking of the "Target" chord. I like to practice this with a loop that transposes randomly every chorus. That is a wild ride LOL.
Wow have I got so much to learn. I have been playing Girl from Ipanema for a while now but had not realized the totally different approach that you discuss here. This is also true with every song I play, it is always a long road with repeat playing until I can play it mistake free. I now realize there is a better way, wish I had learnt this long ago. Having said that I now need to learn Circle of 5ths, Dorian / Aeolian and Mixolydian / Mixolydian etc, .....Lots more learning to be done Lol! and thank you for the great video.
😀
SIRVALORSAX THESE ARE GREAT!!!! WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE OF THESE ON THE TOP 10 JAM SESSION TUNES HAHA! THANKS
More to come!
Great topic! I love bossa nova and in Johannesburg I had the pleasure to jam with a Brazilian friend, he played girl of ipanema, desafinado and another song in guitar and I was playing alto sax. I really like your videos Sir! Regards
Rock on! Thanks
great vid man!
Of course you deserve some feedback!! I liked your presentation. Anyone who has played this song would I think. Thank you and Yes, please. I particularly liked the section with the scales and melody played together. You the Man!!
Thanks
When you are talking chords and keys here, are you always referring to concert pitch?
Yes. I purposefully talk in different keys so that one can understand the relationships that exists between chords
Man, I love how you teach, I'm subscribing, and you share so much information with us which is understandable..and so sensible. When you mentioned, "Satin Doll" I have to say, listen to Wes Montgomery completely re-work that entire song and with some powerful chord sequences. One almost thinks he's playing a different song because of the brilliance at every level. It's on his Wes Trio LP, his first for Riverside records. Peace from Texas.
Will do, be safe
Hi, I dont know any music theory as I just picked up the sax at the age of 54 and it is so hard to find a sax music teacher in this part of the world. You can not even buy your self a Reed for that matter. But I love listening to you. Have no idea why. So thank you.
:)
Great explanation. Would be great to hear more like this.
Thanks
Whew! That is completely complicated. Lady told me that she'd pay me big bucks if I played that song. So I went to the shed for a week and memorized the song as near as possible note for note. Your explanation would've help and shorten my learning time.
Maybe next time.
thanks Man
Big brain time
Good Sir, You nailed it. Totally butchered bridge is us. Took me awhile to get ,,, this was one of those tests no one can really win... we all fall exhausted somewhere along the way. Clever. Wandered too casually into this one,,, and no horn.. You musta taken private lessons. Finally, be cool on all that Sub Dominant, Dominant talk... man.
LOL! I try to keep the technical jargon to a minimum.
love your vids!!
great analysis man. anyone else wish that some day he will just pull up an aebersold or something and just go off for a bit? or better still, one of benjamin harrisons playalongs (available on youtube and free to use on youtube as long as you credit him).
This
Hi Sir Valorsax.Two weeks ago I asked you a question.about this melody...but..you didn't answer me....Could you please...,??
Thank you ! Yes I do like this kinda stuff. Standard analyses with soloing perspective. More with pleasure :)
Cool. Will do. I have a "Blues" video that I'm working on now.
how do I go from c to a to a7? I have been playing almost three years now. I can play almost any song with a treble clef with practice if it is up and down like the girl from Ipanema. I have that song and I can play it pretty well until it gets to the middle of the song and that is where practice comes in I have over twenty song books and play a lot so I never stick with one song for to long. Now it is the holidays here and so now I play them. I have a circle of fifths chart and what you said almost looks like the chart but if I play an A how do I go to an A7. I know how to read music but not as well as you do that is why I am asking. Thanks Pete.
Everyone should look at a Getz transcription. He keeps it realy simple. Memorize the bridge, makes soloing it so much simpler. Don't get crazy on it, embelish it. That way you don't loose your audience...they're simpletons. Make it easy for them. Later...
I love that solo
Cara adoro seus vídeos , sempre com novidades ...som bacana , parabéns
Thanks
....Mr Silversax....I play songs,with my tenor.....by ear...Obviously...I don't read it... For me... playing by ear is not hard. The songs are composed
in a particular key...Then...to
"develop" my ear and the fingering
technic....I play that songs in different keys....but intituively.....Is it a good practice...??
When I began to try to play The
girl from Ipanema....I found.....by ear.... that there was changes in it....
My intuition told me that there was
key changes in the middle section
of the song......Is this correct.??..
...Is this what you we're explaining
here....???
Best regards..!!!... Carlos Roda
Valparaíso. Chile
Yes, there are key changes in this song. If you read music, you'll notice that the key changes are not noted. If you are playing by ear, you have a good ear for hearing these changes. In jazz, we listen to shifting modes and shifting tonal centers. This is because a song may not only change from one major key to another major key but from a major key to a minor key. Practicing songs in all keys is an excellent practice routine especially when there is a singer
@@Sirvalorsax ....thank you Sirvalorsax......!!!!!
Tienes razon, si tienes "buen oido" no necesitas mixolidio ni frigio ni nada. El oido te va guiando junto a la melodia. Si necesitas pensar en armonias y tanta teoria, estas perdiendo el tiempo con el jazz.
Sir Valor, I love your work. I do have an alternate scale naming solution to that F# altered chord. It is also a mode of the g melodic minor.
Absolutely. I would then have to explain that one also. I'll go into more detail about that in a later video. Thanks for watching
Realized I have a friend in Akron that plays tuba, just yesterday. Know a couple weeks back you asked if I knew any horn players in the area, and my mind just went right to saxophone, lol. I mentioned something to him, but he is too self conscious to admit he has any chops--ie he would be too embarassed to play in front of you lol. Dude is weird, seen him nail a whole Moon Hooch bass sax song on like his third attempt, but he won't commit to anything. I tried though. We've got the Dana school of music here in Youngstown, and it has the oldest program focusing on saxophone (as a major) in the country. Bet you could find some terrific horn players there.
I'll look into it. I'm looking for a female harpist now
@@Sirvalorsax nice lol good luck
Ipanema? Performed it many times over the years. Never found it very difficult at all. There are definitely much more challenging compositions, in my view.
I agree but this one has the illusion of being easy, and that bridge.....WOOOOOO!! LOL
Gigs Over!
How about I seeing the improv from a melodic/song perspective and therefore just transposing..that way a song mood can switch from a major feel to a minor mood.. through the changes..I have played this tune for years in third world private/exotic settings and had to be ready to perform in any key.
Stella by Starlight?
👌
Aaaaaa 我希望我學會了閱讀筆記和所有中文語言。但是我沒有。抱歉。You get it
It would be much easier to follow if you write the chords
Here's the legendary musician Bob Strauch's version with his own lyrics: th-cam.com/video/IDxLedytMm0/w-d-xo.html
I also forgot to tell you that I play by ear and I try hard to get it right. It's the only way. I cant afford internet teachers.
Playing by ear is the best way to go. Also transcribing. I use to try to learn a song off the radio before the song was over when I was a kid.
Antonio Jobim NEVER wrote down the chords! (I have his original score of 'Girl from Ipanema'). Chords are made up by somebody else. What has happened to jazz?! Coleman Hawkins said once, "I don't play the chords - I play the movements". Where is that gone now? Are we supposed to chop chords?! What if a sax has to play the melody/voice too? Havoc! Why can't jazz players play like this? → Hear Glenn Zottola playing both vocal melody line and a part of accompaniment: th-cam.com/video/R2n1gjThpes/w-d-xo.html
Wow -- I really love this approach!
Zvonimir Tosic - I am very interested in understanding exactly what Coleman Hawkins means by “playing the movements” instead of the chords. I listened to and enjoyed Glenn Zottola’s Ipanema version. Getz and the 1962 Jazz Samba album with Desafinado inspired me to become a tenor player; it came out when I was in Jr. High School, and I have been playing melodies with embellishments ever since. (Around that time I was also lucky enough to see Coleman Hawkins live in a little jazz club in Greenwich Village in NYC; he was old and frail, but his sound was glorious. I also enjoyed your comments on Triste and Glenn’s responses. I, too, will look into getting his signature SYOS mouthpiece - I love his sound.
I am now studying to internalize more structural theory into my playing - chords, progressions, key centers etc, but your comment here has greatly intrigued me. I would so appreciate any practical help you could give me about finding out how “play movements” in melodies. Maybe you know of some internet or TH-cam resources I could check out. Thank you. ~ David
@@avidor1421 Hi David, I'm glad you liked Glenn's version. I'm not sure if many people know this, but Glenn also plays an exact copy of Stan Getz's last mouthpiece (given to him by Stan's daughter), also a metal Otto Link, and a mouthpiece made to him by Peter Ponzol. All of those create a distinct sound and he is experimenting with all of them.
What Coleman Hawkins means by movements, is, I think, what Barry Harris later explained (he was Hawk's great friend); chords can't be analysed without a constant reference to a song (melody). Without a song, chords are meaningless. The song, and especially the tempo tied to a song, dictate what chords (which includes embellishments) can be played. Let's say, they are mere - suggestions.
The song which moves forward through a certain music key, the player must know the song (Barry Harris would say, "Learn the songs before you play them, the lyrics, all! You must know what the song is about.”). When the player knows the song, he knows the pitch, and only then everything else may be justified. For example, in Zottola's book on Stan Getz, noted are A) original melody by Jobim (no chords there), B) Zottola's embellished line, and somebody in the publishing company added in 'chords' that reflect Zottola's embellishments. Was that necessary? Nope; he made those embellishments based on the main melody line and the key signature (sometimes borrowing for an adjacent key). Are those chords representing embellishments faithfully? Nope - just an approximation. I asked him, and he told me all the arrangement was his own choice done on the spot. He was following the melody.
For example, in a song running in G-major, and on the semibreve on the note of D (before the new section), there is only a handful of things one can embellish it with (if necessary), and make song moving forward. It can be the whole chord played (something based on D, F#, A, etc), a part of the chord (little chord, as Hawks would say), a single note, a small trill between the base note D and the neighbouring note (still part of the scale but not of the chord), etc. The composer did NOT indicate what is the rule, but he did compose the song that it sounds a bit like an "out of tune" recitation of a simple village girl, who is shy and afraid to sing in full voice. The intent is to be respected, an arrangement kept simple(r), freer, (as Getz did it). What Zottola played there? He played a silent D-E trill, to illustrate shiver, insecurity in the voice. When I listened to that, I thought it was ingenious.
Or if we think the only way is a strict and formalised chord form done by someone else, we can then rename the song from ‘Girl from Ipanema” to ‘A Hooker from Brooklyn’, because that is what is done to a song then.
The player plans the approach ahead, to help the song move forward, and is not tied to a certain approach which the more rigid chord structure would demand. Therefore Coleman Hawkins would play “movements, not chords”. Just like Glenn Zottola did.
@@avidor1421 We should note this is not a jazz composition; bossa nova is not mainstay jazz. It can't be 'notated' in the same way. It is only slightly 'jazzed up' samba, which has own rules and one of them is that the melody is king and must carry on, can't be put under the lid, the tempo must be sustained, the syncopated rhythm must be felt during the play. Like a heartbeat. Bossa-nova is not a performance 'in a box': it must be swaying. Many jazz 'licks' and progressions sound stupid in bossa-nova; compare for example version of Desafinado by Getz from 1962, and that from our friend Coleman Hawkins; although great in his own field, Hawk can't play bossa nova; he pushes it into his own field. But it doesn't work.
Hello Zvonimir... and thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed replies. They are full of “meat”, and I have been re-reading them several times to chew, swallow and digest all the nutrition in your words. I get the point; the melody, its lyrics and the intent of the song’s composer leads the improviser forward. And he or she must remain true to the intended forward movement. It is so clear when considering a song like Jobim’s Ipanema - you state that the chords were made up later! Of course, that’s not always the case with other “jazz” standards, but attention to the movements of the melody can still be given top priority, even if chords were present from the beginning. Spending time, as you say, learning the melody completely, is essential if the player’s intention is to sing it through the instrument and share it’s qualities with an audience. Otherwise, one can improvise material over a song’s chord progression that is unrelated to the melody. That’s a choice, and the result can be very satisfying and praise-worthy, too. But I do relate to Hawkins’ “movements” perspective; I’m personally happy living inside melodies all day long. Again, many thanks for your very helpful and elucidating replies. ~ David
Bruh its bossa nova
No D flat? Hm.
Spain?
Brazil.
Where s da solo?.....
bro,its not jazz,it is bossa nova.
Damn dude, you know a little bit huh?
Lol
Always heard “ Lush Life” was one of the most difficult .....would love to hear you play it.
Good call. One of my favorite songs in any genre
I can't follow a Frigian thing this guy's talking about.
Sorry maestro!😮 but..
It is NOT a jazz standard!!
Garota de Ipanema is BOSSA NOVA and has his own rules.
If you try to play jazzy and start to improvise.. YOU WILL KILL this song (cause rub out his essence and destroy his message, like jazz does with so many other songs, he just begins to improvise)