Side Note: 70 and 90 recoil go left, so there's a chance that 75 and 95 go left because they follow those big left angles. That still doesn't make a lot of sense though because 85 recoil doesn't tend right even though 80 does. The 75/95 dilemma is beyond my comprehension.
He was specifically addressing new weapons introduced into the game with "deterministic" recoil as of season 23, I believe. As mentioned by Maven, this is over time, keeping trigger depressed. As previously mentioned by sourcing coolguy's vid to get more independent explanation. Also keep in mind the weapon version. For example, reissues, using ikelos SMH, there are 3 versions in game. The latest version v3, if reissued in S23, would have deternistic recoil applied. V3 wasn't so what we are talking about actually doesn't apply. Just using for the discussion here. What it does mean is that S23 and moving forward, keep deterministic recoil in mind for all new weapons & especially reissues!
Genuinely very groundbreaking information. I recall my experience back on console searching for the perfect recoil direction stats to use, but always finding that certain guns just veered more intensely than others. Never realized 'bounce intensity' played such a big role in that.
Idk, i am confused by this shit. My ros arago iv is worse with arrowhead break than with a chambered compensator. If i add arrowhead break it pulls so hard to the left its crazy. It middles out with less recoil. Thank god i got like 5 god rolls of this thing so i could figure out whats best but recoil didnt tell me. Shooting a wall told me.
This is a great vid! I'd really like to see some more footage of guns from season 22 onward and see if the general trend is for 85 or 100, or if there is any main trend on that. Testing per gun now is neat in theory but also makes finding the right barrel + counter balance a bit more work if it's going to be per gun due to deterministic. Hopefully there is a pattern to make it a bit simpler.
So useful, thanks for sharing, I learned a bunch of things in this video. Its made me reconsider the recoil stat completely, I always thought that higher number = better. It would be quite useful then, if the Relic had a firing range so you could test and reshape more easily. But you can't fire your weapons at all in the Enclave, not even outside.
I noticed that i just couldn't get it right on some guns regardless of having many rolls and using mods on and off, and instead now i rely more on the perks. Rapid Hit and Keep Away are even more valuable on pulses, for example
I don't know who or what to believe anymore so for the past few season's I've been weighting out every gun I use in pvp. Thankfully I don't play a ton of it, & I use a lot of the same weapons, but that's the only way I've figured out to set my recoil. Just sit there & shoot the weapon & add or subtract/change perk accordingly. It's a drag but it's better than missing shots in the heat of the moment.
@@JeighNeither I've been playing more PVP this season and I've been testing a lot of weapons. I can tell you with absolute certainty that guns that I've got hundreds of kills on just do not get the kills they used to and other guns I've never touched are suddenly better, which is really weird. I think I need to start over kinda when it comes to recoil beyond like ten meters.
Does stability has anything to do with the recoil? Because, i always try to max out stability which usually made the firing aim stability better, hence easier to control the recoils...
A little. Not much. Stability and Recoil are 2 completely separate things. Recoil controls how much your gun kicks from side to side. Stability controls how much it kicks up.
It would be helpful to understand the relationship between recoil and stability in light of this revelation. My understanding has been that stability is the degree of weapon kick as you shoot, while recoil is the direction the weapon kicks when firing. Still valid? Thoughts?
I'm pretty sure deterministic recoil is only on the new weapons as from last season? older weapons will still abide by the old recoil values they always have done.
Its very strange that they made each gun have unique recoil. I had noticed that some of my full auto guns felt harder to shoot now. I saw the one example had a big jump to the side when you start firing even at 100 recoil direction. Does that mean if you tap fire instead of holding down the trigger it will keep jumping rather than balancing out?
I'm ok with the idea that I'm going to play around with my favorite guns, get a feel for them, and tinker a bit to dial them in rather than just looking at a couple of stats and then slotting in the mods that make the numbers go to the right place. It'd be nice to have an actual shooting range for this, but it feels like a Guardian would rather put bullets downrange than play with a spreadsheet.
I cannot believe we had this wrong the whole time. Someone with a capture card and free time to set the record straight. I just tested and everything she said is correct.
So bungie honestly hates when we figure anything out. So they change it afterwards, shotgun spreads and barrels, sniper cone angles, rangefinder, aim assit and zoom etc..
I want a video on all the Season22 weapons that have Determinstic Recoil, and most optimal recoil Stat for them Especially all the new Prophecy weapons
Well, here’s the thing maven and others. I think if a gun’s programmed recoil is left, that would mean recoil compensation you’d want it to pull right on the graphic yes? [edit 7:19] okay so I said the above before reaching that time stamp with the example of the auto rifle. But yes that is what I had thought we should be doing
old recoil equation for random recoil weapons: \sin\left(\left(x+5 ight)\cdot\frac{2\pi}{20} ight)\left(100-x ight) NEW recoil equation for random roll weapons: \sin\left(\left(x+5 ight)\cdot\frac{2\pi}{30} ight)\left(100-x ight) plug these into DESMOS online graphic calculator to see the new curve
The new comp strand pulse is a 4 burst and I really wanted to luv it but no matter what recoil direction I put on it I would miss shots with it and finally quit using it. Deterministic recoil is so bad and ruins some guns 4 me. Thanx 4 the video maven.
Deterministc Recoil made half of the guns an auto-dismantle choice for me in PvP Lethal Abundance is literally unusable in PvP now, even though I have 2 PvP godrolls The only way to make use of deterministic recoil is through scripts that auto-correct for the spray patterns
Still don't get it, am I an idiot? Or the way the recoil is measured on this game makes no sense at all? That's why I don't look at the recoil stat anymore, I just don't know who it works.
Belisarius behaves very differently to randys with 74 recoil, that goes right and 84 is the worst recoil possible on the gun coz it then kicks hard right but 89 is the best for it
Good summary but I think the conclusion might not cover all grounds but due to limitation of deterministic guns and not your research. Simply put recoil direction tilt the recoil pattern probability to one side. Previously all guns had one vertical pattern so the left and right recoil is obvious. Now that the recoil pattern is no longer absolutely vertical, this changes a lot of things. To find further evidence, I suggest you look into non-deterministic recoil weapons. IIRC, different recoil values prefer different direction in alternate pattern similar to the recoil graph. You can also test using controller with lower FOV to amplify the small differences. That said the new system was made so that you can learn to keep adjust your control to keep the reticle on target easier. In the future if we get different direction pattern then we might find that 75 is better than 85 or 80 might keep the recoil vertical. So the video is absolutely correct. With current direction 85 tilt the pattern vertical so it’s better. 95 don’t really tilt the pattern so the gun recoil shows its nature better.
Side Note: 70 and 90 recoil go left, so there's a chance that 75 and 95 go left because they follow those big left angles. That still doesn't make a lot of sense though because 85 recoil doesn't tend right even though 80 does. The 75/95 dilemma is beyond my comprehension.
Oh we gotta smarty pants@@Newton1221
Coolguy "recently" did a recoil video showing some very crazy recoil situations as well. Recoil is just a fickle thing in this game.
Which video is this?
It was a little while ago and he went over several guns. Feels like 2 or 3 months ago but I could be wrong.
He was specifically addressing new weapons introduced into the game with "deterministic" recoil as of season 23, I believe.
As mentioned by Maven, this is over time, keeping trigger depressed.
As previously mentioned by sourcing coolguy's vid to get more independent explanation.
Also keep in mind the weapon version. For example, reissues, using ikelos SMH, there are 3 versions in game. The latest version v3, if reissued in S23, would have deternistic recoil applied. V3 wasn't so what we are talking about actually doesn't apply. Just using for the discussion here.
What it does mean is that S23 and moving forward, keep deterministic recoil in mind for all new weapons & especially reissues!
@@Ridgelinehunter007 ahhh that make a lot of sense. Thank you
Genuinely very groundbreaking information. I recall my experience back on console searching for the perfect recoil direction stats to use, but always finding that certain guns just veered more intensely than others. Never realized 'bounce intensity' played such a big role in that.
I think they said deterministic recoil was for S22 and later seasons in the twid, so ammit doesn't have deterministic. Either than that good video.
That's correct. Only new and reissued weapons after deterministic recoil was implemented will have it
Idk, i am confused by this shit. My ros arago iv is worse with arrowhead break than with a chambered compensator. If i add arrowhead break it pulls so hard to the left its crazy. It middles out with less recoil. Thank god i got like 5 god rolls of this thing so i could figure out whats best but recoil didnt tell me. Shooting a wall told me.
After last season all new guns will have determined recoil anything before this season won't have it. Thanks for the vid great job
Funny how a friend of mine recommended this video knowing they love details like these.
Guess there's always something new to learn after all.
Sooo glad that you took the time out to do this video- gonna learn a lot from this so thanks Maven 😇
Every video you do is well done. I've learned a ton, and appreciate all the research. Showing what you're talking about drives the point home.
Thankyou..this helps a lot....well done
Fantastic video. By far the most informative video I’ve seen in ages
your vids are top shelf. very detailed and well explained. keep it up!
thanks ^.^
Top 10 informative video on d2 ever. Such a help.
This is a great vid! I'd really like to see some more footage of guns from season 22 onward and see if the general trend is for 85 or 100, or if there is any main trend on that. Testing per gun now is neat in theory but also makes finding the right barrel + counter balance a bit more work if it's going to be per gun due to deterministic. Hopefully there is a pattern to make it a bit simpler.
So useful, thanks for sharing, I learned a bunch of things in this video. Its made me reconsider the recoil stat completely, I always thought that higher number = better.
It would be quite useful then, if the Relic had a firing range so you could test and reshape more easily. But you can't fire your weapons at all in the Enclave, not even outside.
Good to know. Thank you for putting this together!
Very useful information....thank you 👍🏼
I noticed that i just couldn't get it right on some guns regardless of having many rolls and using mods on and off, and instead now i rely more on the perks. Rapid Hit and Keep Away are even more valuable on pulses, for example
I don't know who or what to believe anymore so for the past few season's I've been weighting out every gun I use in pvp. Thankfully I don't play a ton of it, & I use a lot of the same weapons, but that's the only way I've figured out to set my recoil. Just sit there & shoot the weapon & add or subtract/change perk accordingly. It's a drag but it's better than missing shots in the heat of the moment.
@@JeighNeither I've been playing more PVP this season and I've been testing a lot of weapons. I can tell you with absolute certainty that guns that I've got hundreds of kills on just do not get the kills they used to and other guns I've never touched are suddenly better, which is really weird.
I think I need to start over kinda when it comes to recoil beyond like ten meters.
Amazing! Perfectly presented and informative, this really helped me
Once again outstanding info and presentation. You rock, Maven!
Nice video!
Thanks. Used to test recoil in D1. Haven't thought about it in awhile. Thank you. Great video.
Always very good information. Thanks for your work. It is appreciated 😊
Does stability has anything to do with the recoil? Because, i always try to max out stability which usually made the firing aim stability better, hence easier to control the recoils...
A little. Not much. Stability and Recoil are 2 completely separate things. Recoil controls how much your gun kicks from side to side. Stability controls how much it kicks up.
@MavenPhoenix I believe it also deals with one's flinch resistance as well.
SO good information. Was always wondering why my Gnawing Hunger felt SO good. Between it's 85 recoil and Zen Moment, it just doesn't move at all.
Thank you for the video Maven. I always learn something new from you.
Thanks so much for this! Really appreciate the work you've put into this too -- super glad to have found your channel. ❤
So very helpful. Thank you! Keep up the amazing work! 🙂
Good stuff, thanks! :)
The change to deterministic recoil wasn't retroactive, so old guns use the old system.
Awesome info! If I wanted to look through snipers for bounce intensity what would I use for this?
Very well explained👍
Woah! I had NO idea. Thank you for the vid!
It would be helpful to understand the relationship between recoil and stability in light of this revelation. My understanding has been that stability is the degree of weapon kick as you shoot, while recoil is the direction the weapon kicks when firing. Still valid? Thoughts?
Thank you for your work and explaining this!
This is crazy info right here. Thanks for letting me know
Great vid. Now it makes sense to me
Great content as usual! Thanks!
Thanks, this was very helpful!
Thanks for the info!
This shit is crazy. Just when I thought I had a rule of thumb for all my recoil needs, you prove that it was baloney all along
I'm pretty sure deterministic recoil is only on the new weapons as from last season? older weapons will still abide by the old recoil values they always have done.
Its very strange that they made each gun have unique recoil. I had noticed that some of my full auto guns felt harder to shoot now. I saw the one example had a big jump to the side when you start firing even at 100 recoil direction. Does that mean if you tap fire instead of holding down the trigger it will keep jumping rather than balancing out?
Is Ammit AR2 a Season 22 weapon? If not, that would explain it, as deterministic recoil was only implemented for weapons introduced in S22 or later.
Damn good work right here 👏
My goddess Maven THANK you!! ❤
You are Awesome!!!! Thank you!!
Yeah, deterministic is only for season 22 and later
What then would be the recoil to shoot for on the Lethal Abundance and the Belisarius-D?
Thank you
I will not be surprised if recoil gets altered again in the next few months.
Always appreciate a new video where I can learn something thanks Maven!
I'm ok with the idea that I'm going to play around with my favorite guns, get a feel for them, and tinker a bit to dial them in rather than just looking at a couple of stats and then slotting in the mods that make the numbers go to the right place.
It'd be nice to have an actual shooting range for this, but it feels like a Guardian would rather put bullets downrange than play with a spreadsheet.
I cannot believe we had this wrong the whole time. Someone with a capture card and free time to set the record straight. I just tested and everything she said is correct.
thanks gor info
good stuff thanks.
This is why u are the best d2 youtuber
thx ^.^
So bungie honestly hates when we figure anything out. So they change it afterwards, shotgun spreads and barrels, sniper cone angles, rangefinder, aim assit and zoom etc..
I want a video on all the Season22 weapons that have Determinstic Recoil, and most optimal recoil Stat for them
Especially all the new Prophecy weapons
Well, here’s the thing maven and others.
I think if a gun’s programmed recoil is left, that would mean recoil compensation you’d want it to pull right on the graphic yes?
[edit 7:19] okay so I said the above before reaching that time stamp with the example of the auto rifle.
But yes that is what I had thought we should be doing
old recoil equation for random recoil weapons:
\sin\left(\left(x+5
ight)\cdot\frac{2\pi}{20}
ight)\left(100-x
ight)
NEW recoil equation for random roll weapons:
\sin\left(\left(x+5
ight)\cdot\frac{2\pi}{30}
ight)\left(100-x
ight)
plug these into DESMOS online graphic calculator to see the new curve
Good info, thanks. It's frustrating that Bungie make these things so opaque and counter-intuitive, though.
Huh? Case by Case basis in my Destiny? LETS GOOOOO
The new comp strand pulse is a 4 burst and I really wanted to luv it but no matter what recoil direction I put on it I would miss shots with it and finally quit using it. Deterministic recoil is so bad and ruins some guns 4 me. Thanx 4 the video maven.
I see @maven video, I auto like 🙂
So how does stability play into this?
Stability controls vertical bounce. Recoil controls horizontal bounce. It's a similar concept, but they are 2 different things.
Recoil is predominately the direction, while stability is the distance in that direction.
Mave is my fav, smartest d2 player of all time. Ty mav, good job guardian.
Thanks Homegirl!!
Deterministc Recoil made half of the guns an auto-dismantle choice for me in PvP
Lethal Abundance is literally unusable in PvP now, even though I have 2 PvP godrolls
The only way to make use of deterministic recoil is through scripts that auto-correct for the spray patterns
So underrated
That's so interesting
Still don't get it, am I an idiot? Or the way the recoil is measured on this game makes no sense at all? That's why I don't look at the recoil stat anymore, I just don't know who it works.
Is that a new profile picture? I swear it was something else not too long ago
It is
Belisarius behaves very differently to randys with 74 recoil, that goes right and 84 is the worst recoil possible on the gun coz it then kicks hard right but 89 is the best for it
Good summary but I think the conclusion might not cover all grounds but due to limitation of deterministic guns and not your research.
Simply put recoil direction tilt the recoil pattern probability to one side. Previously all guns had one vertical pattern so the left and right recoil is obvious. Now that the recoil pattern is no longer absolutely vertical, this changes a lot of things.
To find further evidence, I suggest you look into non-deterministic recoil weapons. IIRC, different recoil values prefer different direction in alternate pattern similar to the recoil graph.
You can also test using controller with lower FOV to amplify the small differences.
That said the new system was made so that you can learn to keep adjust your control to keep the reticle on target easier.
In the future if we get different direction pattern then we might find that 75 is better than 85 or 80 might keep the recoil vertical.
So the video is absolutely correct. With current direction 85 tilt the pattern vertical so it’s better. 95 don’t really tilt the pattern so the gun recoil shows its nature better.
The recoil in the game is so illogical. I'm goin to ave to check all my PVP guns now.
A lot of what Bungie does is illogical
Not sure why Bungie thought the masses wanted deterministic recoil. I'm hoping they walk this one back.
Great breakdown Maven, thanks!
Stability
gg
Does anyone know WHY Bungie made this change? Seems pointless and actually worse than the old way.
comment for algo
thx ^.^
Jake sucks lol