Anyone who delves deeply enough into this subject with an open mind, and examines all the evidence, and lack thereof, critically with an unbiased viewpoint, comes inevitably to the conclusion that Jesus is a mythological figure with no historical basis. Historical scholars have known for hundreds of years that Josephus' _Antiquities_ had the references to Jesus inserted much later, and yet Christian apologists continue to mislead honest truth-seekers by referring to those passages as proof of the historicity of Jesus. Christianity should only be taught in the same context as other mythologies, e.g. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, et al, because that is all it really is, and when one studies all the mythologies of the peoples in that area, one can readily see the similarities.
Hi William Allman, actually there are reasonable and unbiased people who are neither convinced that Jesus was a historical figure, nor convinced that he was purely mythical. To those people including myself, both claims do not appear to have met their burden of proof, therefore we are agnostic on the point. Let either side meet their burden of proof, then we will follow them.
+Michelle Wong I was, of course, referring to those of reasonable constitution who understand that nothing can be known with 100% certainty and are thus satisfied with what is _most likely_ to be true, rather than those eternal fence-sitters known as agnostics, of whom I counted myself one until encountering a philosophical argument which compelled me to stop being a fence-sitter.
William Allman, please note: It's hard to say what's most likely when the data is so corrupted and tampered with or simply doesn't exist because of the nature of history preservation or lack thereof in unstable times. If Jesus was just a real-life carpenter with no miraculous powers nor huge cult following at the beginning, and all the miracle stories sprung up later, why would you expect that contemporaneous historians like Philo would record anything much about him? Also: Matt Dillahunty (as an example amongst many) is not convinced of either position. You are the one bringing up 100% certainty, no one else mentioned it, and your "100%" straw-man is not the test which I or Dillahunty or countless others espouse. There is too much water under the bridge to know, so I sit on the fence with valid reason. I believe you go too far in coming down on the mythicist side of the fence. Even Richard Carrier has publicly said that it's perfectly reasonable to be agnostic about it. The focus of Carrier's attacks are against the positions espoused by Ehrman and the majority consensus of scholars which come down strongly on the historicist side. You are welcome to convince yourself to come off the fence, but please hold off your attacks against the agnostics until (and if) more data comes to light.
+Michelle Wong I'm curious to know what straw man you're referring to, since I did not state your position but only my own. I don't really care what Mr. Dillahunty's, or anyone else's, position on the matter is, it's not a popularity contest. I conducted my own research into the matter several decades ago and, as I said earlier, was not entirely convinced either, or was agnostic (as you put it) until relatively recently. I am not claiming to know for certain but have merely satisfied myself of what is most likely to be true, based on all the available evidence. You may think the data is so corrupted and tampered with, or "too much water under the bridge to know", but as I said, I'm not talking about _knowing_, which _implies_ 100% certainty, and I probably had resources (such as university libraries) which you have not utilized, and I have a high degree of confidence that my conclusion is most likely correct, but like any good scientist I am open to new data which may cause me to revise that conclusion.
William Allman, you have not met your burden of proof (greater than 50% chance likelihood) to my satisfaction. Until such time that you come up with better evidence, I say good day kind sir.
+Jedi, Hey, wacko, don't go murdering any infants while you're on some religious rant: "This is what the Lord Almighty says...Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Samuel 15:2-3).
Yeah, kind of telling when he goes boss mode for the things everyone feared back then: death, illness (the mysterious kind & demon-based, and what do you think water-to-wine meant about the water back then?), oceans/seas (drowning in deep, dark water), and like icing on a cake, he freakin' flies off the ground like superman -- into the damn clouds, or as everyone retarded by this fine piece of literary stupidity, heaven!!! Nice work, whoever wrote Acts! ...and wouldn't you know it, angels have the best weaponry of the time: swords !!! One that SPINS, too !!!! And Jesus is said to be coming back on the best warfare transportation of the day.....a BIG, FINE ASS WHITE HORSE MUTHAFUGGA...BEWARE THE WHINNIE AND H2H COMBAT !!!!
@@scottlouissmith2382 I would like to share a testimony of mine with you of being in the presence of my savior Jesus . Years back I was at church and my pastor had just got done praying over me . She had then announced that Jesus was there . I could feel him behind me filling me up with pure love . I had even reached out to hold onto his hand . It was the best day of my life . Remember Jesus is the only way to heaven . Whoever believes in him will be saved .
I tried to read the Bible from beginning and I noticed from the genesis chapter that there were other people apart from Adam and Eve, and I said waaa? That was it!
+Jedi, If you only believed in harmless fairy tales about a talking snake, talking donkey, 900-year-old men, virgin birth and zombies...it would just be absurd but so what? You have a right to be as gullible and ignorant as you like. But your fake holy book tells fanatics to murder children and infants, murder gays, murder witches, to take slaves and whip them as a punishment, and tells credulous idiots that they can drink deadly poison--which ends up killing them. Your holy book is a source of evil in the world...and again...is proven to be false by science, archaology and biblical scholars. The ignorant, superstitious savages who wrote your fake holy book knew less about how the world really works than the average child today. You've been lied to, and your book of lies is harming people. I shouldn't have to tell educated people in the 21st century that liars are more likely than talking snakes, 900-year-old men, zombies--or hundreds of other ridiculous claims in your book of mythology. Even you can understand why that's true. We have LOTS of evidence of liars--and ZERO evidence for virgin births, talking snakes, demigods, etc. It's a shame that you're unable to differentiate truth from fiction.
Million and million of martyrs died for Jesus, how unwise was for them not to read the bible, they gave their life for no reason, how stupid we millions of orthodox Christians are today not to read the bible as you did. I don't mean to be ironic, just want to put some contrast! Bible is not a cooking reciepe, this should be obvious from most of the bible which is impossible to even understand let alone interpreting correctly! If knowledge was the salvation God would send an angel, explain it all and voila planet earth was saved. If knowledge was the salvation, my father would have given me a notebook of advises and voila I would had avoided all the stupid things I said and did in my life.
Thank you Dr Price for showing that how they alter background stories in Superman to fit new needs and how this could have happened in the Jesus story as well.
Love it! Love Price! Love how seamlessly, the context of Jesus, fits a super hero comic book. Love how a secular, unbiased look at religion, could’ve saved so many lives in the past present and future.
Critical thinking is the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment. It is done to discover what is true - without fear of retaliation. Neither Yeshua nor his father, Yahweh, would approve of such a practice.
The early Gnostics viewed Jesus as more of a metaphor and a pathway to finding the inner truth in ourselves. They all pretty much were influenced by Paul's writing and Paul writes like one who is experiencing Jesus in a vision instead a real life man.
Jesus hallucinates a meeting with Satan in the desert after starving himself for over a month. Satan is supposed to be Yahweh's obedient slave but Jesus is supposed to be Yahweh in human form. St. Paul was a known epileptic who suffered a grand mal seizure that triggered a blast of lightning inside his brain circuits and a voice asking him why he was persecuting the Christians. The actual words that Saul reported hearing were "Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecute me? - "me" meaning Yahweh, the Hebrew god. What I'm seeing here is abnormal electrical activity throughout Paul's brain. A short circuit in the firing neurons of a man probably troubled by a guilty conscience. Furthermore, the voice Paul hears inside his head cannot be from Yahweh, who is all powerful and cannot suffer persecution at the hands of his own creation.
The only reason to believe Jesus might have been historical is simply the overwhelming scholarly consensus. But when weighing the evidence, the more parsimonious case is that he is mythical.
Same could be said for Pythagoras, Homer, Socrates, Buddha, Confucius, Sun Tzu, Hannibal, Qin Shi Huang, Queen Himiko, Catherine of Alexandria, Ambrosious Aurelius, Muhammad, Ragnar the Viking, William Wallace, etc.
Socrates's existence is on a much firmer basis than that of Jesus, since it is attested by several different eye witness accounts from historical authors who were alive at the time such as Plato, Xenophon and Aristophanes. Along with that, there is no real utility in inventing a Socrates, whereas we know that many figures are invented for religious reasons. What is imponderable with respect to Socrates is not so much his existence, but whether he or Plato was actually responsible for the thoughts ascribed to him by Plato.
The methodologies and criteria which Richard Carrier utilizes also seem more a bit more 'scientific' than the majority of those used in the past. History is being treated a bit more structurally and less artistically every day.
tx for the video.. (If i can make one small critique, I would not have broken up the speaker.. I wouldve left his talk as he gave it,, followed with the nice music and awesome art selections you picked. Great either way though, tx again.
Atheos B. Sapien Religion always reaches to thwart, sound reasoning and honesty, but if you must do this to feel good, then just keep at it and good luck.
Strange: on concil of Nicäa in 325 the bishops debated: "Had been Jesus on earth, was he of flesh and blood and the son of god." This shows clearly: all fiction.
Olivia Baklaton As a former traditional, Latin Mass-attending Catholic who has recently done an about-face vis the Abrahamic religions, I can say you're taking this quote out of context. The whole debate at Nicea was about whether Jesus Christ was just a man, or both God and man. So, in the second part of the text you quoted (I don't know whether this quote was in the documents of the council, but let's assume it was), you'd better understand it if you emphasize the word 'AND'. So, they're taking for granted that he was of flesh and blood, and the question they're attempting to answer canonically is whether he was divine.
Hi Gestr, your point is noted about Council of Nicea. Let's see what Olivia Baklaton comes back with, hopefully something solid because I expressed support for Olivia's post and I hope that Olivia did not lead me up a garden path. By the way, I also was once a traditional Tridentine Latin-mass-goer, then I realised it was all BS and I had to do an about-face too. Strange thing is, most of my friends from that church are still there. It baffles me that they haven't smelled a rat like I did. After smelling a rat, I investigated it thoroughly, and yes there is a rat there!
Gestr But there were sects like the marcionites who did think Jesus was a celestial figure. Maybe even Paul, who never refers to the gospel stories, and never refers to any earthly doings of Jesus. It's hard to reverse engineer the birth of a religion so long after the fact, but the syncretist hypothesis that Price likes sounds good to me. It had to come from somewhere, and the Hellenic mystery religions of the era seem at least as likely as a "real" origin, or as a divine visitation.
The most memorable comment I recall Price made regarding whether or not the Bible is the "Word of God," the "Word Incarnate," or the "Word made flesh," etc. is when he compared various Biblical miracles to the statement "it is raining cats and dogs." Price then said, "Do you believe at one time it did rain cats and dogs? And if it did once rain cats and dogs, why did things change [why doesn't it rain cats and dogs anymore]?" I think this is Price's best angle and he could develop it further. I keep searching for videos where he does something similar. Also, I would like to comment that for many evangelical Christians, President Trump was "appointed by God," just as the Kingdom of God was once equated with the King David and the building of the temple by his son Solomon. The Kingdom of God is political, not "religious." So, in this bizarre sense where Trump has been appointed by God, this makes Trump the new "King of the Jews" instead of David, and instead of Jesus. I wonder if Trump will have the audacity to kick the Muslims out of Jerusalem, tear down the mosques they have built, and build a third Temple. After all, Trump has to do what his constituents elect him to do and I am sure evangelicals would be thrilled if Trump built a Temple in addition to moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. I have long since severed my associations with evangelicals, but I can think of one former friend in particular who would be angry and upset if I did not agree with her that the Trump administration is the Kingdom of God on earth.
I wish he would address other non-religious New Testament scholars who disagree with him. I'm thinking here about Francesca Stavrakopoulou specifically. We don't get the luxury of being able to read and/or even understand their journals so this would be a refreshing change of pace. A lot of these presentations seem to take place in a vacuum devoid of any real discussion between the saner heads in their field.
I'm slightly familiar with Dr. Starvrakopoulou and her observations about the garden of Eden story being a metaphor for an event that may have happened to real king. In one of our upcoming videos we are going to go into depth about the garden of Eden story. At this time, I don't agree with her conclusion, but I believe she makes a good case that we should view the garden and temple as significantly tied together.
It's not just the passion narrative, Jesus's entire character seems to be an amalgamation of the Jewish rebels mentioned in Josephus i.e.John of Giscala, Simon bar giora, Jesus ben Ananias, Simon of Perea, The Egyptian, The Samaritan, Judas of Galilean, Theudas the Imposter, Eleazar, etc, and several O.T. prophets and messiah figures such as Joseph, Moses, David, Joshua, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, and Job. And it would appear that Jesus is partially based on Josephus himself.
In our other video, Lena Einhorn talks about the Timeshift and why she thinks the Gospel narrative setting precedes the War. The birth of Jesus coincides with the birth of the Jewish rebellion, starting with Judas the Galilean. It's also interesting that both the Egyptian and Theudas were impersonating or attempting to recreate the acts of the OT Joshua. Carrier and others remark on how the passion selection is set up between Jesus the Messiah and Jesus Bar Rabbas (Son of the Fathers). The sacrificial lamb and the goat (rebel) who is released into the wilderness with sin. It appears that the Gospels are distancing themselves from elements of Judaism they may have been associated with the rebellion.
I wish Bob would comment on this. Considering the common belief at the time -- certainly by Paul -- in a multi-tiered heaven and the reflectivity between the layers of the heavens and the earth itself (as above, so below), it seems reasonable and entirely possible -- given that Paul did indeed see the Savior as being crucified somewhere in the heavens as Price indicates -- that Paul would have reasoned this crucifixion would also have been reflected upon the earth in some fashion? One could play around with the idea in debating exactly HOW Paul would have seen this happening in terms of how it would have appeared to ordinary people in Galilee and Judea ... what form this reflective 'savior' would have taken on the earth plane, but my question for Bob would be, "Would not Paul have searched for any evidence that SOMETHING happened on earth reflecting what was a momentous event he clearly believed had occurred in the heavens?" Maybe Paul did learn of some guy who created a disturbance in the Temple and was executed by Pilate. My point is that Paul might have latched onto this relatively unimportant news event and seen it as confirming what had happened in the heavens above. So he would have noted it in passing in his writings but not emphasized it because the main event he believed had happened ABOVE the earth. So it does seem somewhat likely that Paul did know of some event related to a possible earthly Jesus. In fact, Paul might have heard of this event long before his conversion, and that is what got him thinking along these lines. Maybe that earthly Jesus did believe and proclaim himself as the long awaited Savior, but no one believed him, and Pilate certainly would not have. Clearly, it is very possible Paul would consider such an epic event in the heavens to be reflected in some way upon the earth. Interesting that no one I am aware of has ever commented on this. It seems so obvious.
Dr. Price questions in what era Jesus actually lived and there are some historians that feel the Jesus story came about rather in the 2nd century rather than the 1st! One big reason is the small town of Nazareth where Jesus supposedly grew up wasn't anywhere on the map until the 2nd c. Another reason is there is no mention of the 4 Gospels ANYWHERE in secular history until around 150 AD.
Biblical scholar John Dominic Crossan in :"Excavating Jesus: Beneath the Stones, Behind the Texts" points to references of late 1st or early 2 century in the gospels.
If we humans could keep the social cohesiveness and emotional strength that Religion provides, but accept the foundational stories as the interesting Myths that they are, Religion could be a valuable part of the modern world.
Like murdering children and infants? "This is what the Lord Almighty says...Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Samuel 15:2-3).
I love to listen to multiple points of view and help make informed decisions. Does anyone know if Price ir others deal with so many early christians dying for their faith or worse, getting others to die, for what so obviously now is said to be a myth? Strikes me that someone of the proponents would have recanted the fiction over seeing innocents slaughtered by the religious or political rulers of the day.
This guy is right, Jesus IS myth. The only reason he is considered to be historical is because a whole industry rests on him being a historical figure. There are many reasons that why he is a mythical figure but most important reason is all his teachings go against what all great historical figures have said about spiritual truths and God.
I would like to share a testimony of mine with you of being in the presence of Jesus . Years back I was at my church and my pastor had just got done praying over me . She then announced that Jesus was there . I could feel him behind me . He was filling me up with pure love . I even reached out to hold onto his hand . It was the best day of my life . Being in his presence. Remember the only way to heaven is through the son Jesus . Our savior. God bless
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Can someone write down the names, referenced in the talk, so I can do some research on them please.
Dr Bob... 1981 would be correct for this rendition of Batman. U know I love you. Check out what's on the cinema starring George Hamilton in the excellent Joker movie....xx
The only problem I'm getting with all of this is the vagueness of any details. Please, In your research can you pinpoint an approximate time when the Jesus myth was made up? Who made it up (obviously I understand you won't have any names, but at least a people group - was it Romans, was it Jews - if so, what sect of Judaism?)? and also why the myth was made? what was the motive for someone to make this up? I'm new to this so be nice. :)
Hello David! Great questions. If you watch our video with Richard Carrier "The Gospel According to Carrier" it outlines several reasons why the gospels may have been written. One notable sect not mentioned in the gospels is the Essenes. According to the historian Josephus, the Essenes were influential in every city in Palestine and shared many characteristics with early Christian teachings, including those in the gospels. Josephus also mentions their significant persecution during the Roman war. During the period of the 130 year conflict with Rome, many Messianic figures emerged. This turbulent era forms the context in which the gospels were composed. Dr. Price suggests that the figure of Jesus draws on multiple personalities, including rebel leaders who resisted Rome. However, the Jesus depicted in the gospels isn't interested in opposing the Romans but instead focuses on reforming Judaism. This Jesus remains notably neutral on Rome’s harsh rule. By 70 AD, the destruction of the Temple left the Jewish community without its spiritual center. The gospels offered a new path, a philosophy no longer bound to a specific place. Many early Christian apologists saw the Temple’s fall as evidence of Jesus’s prophecy fulfilled, interpreting it as a sign that Judaism had failed to recognize the true Messianic figure. It’s my belief that all the gospels were written after this event. This figure would have appealed to Hellenistic Jews living in the diaspora.
Unless you consider the other side, orthodox theology, I mean well educated orthodox theologians, your personal believes and thoughts cannot be taken seriously at all! Anyway, people of this kind and all other ones who have slaughtered millions of Christians do not consist a threat for Christianity, everyone is dying but Christianity is here. The only people who do cause damage to Christianity, are people who come in to support Christianity. See pope, protestants, heretic missionaries or debaters etc. Anyway, Christianity is all about "get your cross and follow me", is not about debates and history and full biography and explaining the dinosaurs etc. All these are easy for God to present however this path takes you nowhere. The point is the repentance and the realization that we are given as much info as God's wisdom decided is needed!
Why aren't my comments being posted publicly? What's up with that? I come in from another browser without signing in and my comment is not there. I'm having the same problem over at Ehrmans channel. I've tested my comments on other channels and they're posting publicly.
Mr Price at the end when you said Jesus us like the Frankenstein monster where pieces of other men from history have been taken and put together isn't that a metafore for a beast and if he is the head figure of western religion doe's that not mean that many have already taken the mark of the beast by converting and also believing in western and Muslim religion ? If you summarize the Numbers of those two religion that could account for almost the whole world meaning many are deceived . please tell me what you think thank you
Price got his clocked cleaned on this topic in the debate. this is why Carrier will never dare debate Ehrman on the same topic and let it be recorded...
Why isn't my comment posting? What's the point of a comment section if you will not allow a comment to be posted publicly? I'm having the same problem over at Ehrman's channel. Mighty peculiar.
TH-cam has a spam filter that sometimes wrongly rejects comments. To stop this do not add links and do not edit. It will also happen sometime when you post a lot of comments. It is called ghost blocking.
Has anybody ever wondered about all the things we are told about in religion like Angels, Demons, Jesus and God, Allah and Satan are all invisible could it be because they are not really real
Whether or not there was an Historical Jesus is beside the point as there is most certainly no God so therefore certainly no god in human form so other than an interesting foray into History and Mythologies it matters not in the end so be happy that you are originated from the stars themselves and we ourselves are the gods.
Price's contention that Irenaeus thought that Jesus lived to be 50 years old is most likely a misinterpretation of the passage in question. However I will grant that the passage is kinda confusing and could interpreted in different ways. My point is that there is really no way for Price to assert that as a fact.
if people said Jesus dont exist, from now on, i will trust and believe richard dawkins as my "lord and savior" he is real, and exist in this earth, i hope dawkins always bless me. Hail Dawkins,
The bible writers used real historical people to tell their myths much like Shakespeare did with his stories. Myths are spiritual truths that have a deep meaning .......
One of those myths is the resurrection of the nation of Israel as the major sign of the apocalypse being close...I wonder, did that happen? And if it did happen, how many other nations destroyed 20 centuries ago have re-emerged ? Let me know what you find out.
11thstory: is 11thstory historical? Is birth historical, like death? Every human is only after birth and before death and resurrection. Man lives to die, sounds no meaning. Worry for the past is useful or Worry for the present is necessary? Worry for the present involves rectification. Man consists of 'inner' and 'outer', meaningful. Death makes man "outer" without "inner". Any "outer" without "inner" is useless. Rectification is to provide "inner".
I'm frankly undecided if there were a Jesus the Nazerite (not Nazerine which means something entirely different). It doesn't matter to me anyway. Belief did not make my life more precious or easier. I have no need of Jesus.
To all in unbelief I would like to share a testimony of mine of being with you in the presence of Jesus . Years back I was at church and my pastor had just got done praying over me . She then announced that Jesus was there . I could feel him behind me filling me up with pure love the purest of love . I had even reached out to hold onto his hand . I never will forget it . It was the best day of my life . Jesus is the only way to heaven and whoever believes in him will be saved . God bless you all .
I used to admire Price, and I agree with his Biblical scholarship and his mythicist stance, but I was disappointed to hear him say that he voted for Trump twice, and would do so again. Sorry Bob, but that demonstrates a serious lapse in judgement. There's no other way around that.
You know if Jesus is real, and or God the Father. I'm sure He is not oblivious to the confusion we are having in earth. As a Father, he will see his children searching for the truth and fix it. If my child is trying to figure out how to cross the street with passing cars, should I just watch from distance and let them figure it all out knowing their struggle to not get hit and/or suffer consequences. No, as a loving parent, absolutely no. I would immediately come to their rescue to prevent further struggle to stay alive because I love and protect. Also, legal authorities will also hold me accountable for not protecting my child. Something is really strange about the principle of Jesus and God as entities that pushed out rules but are remaining quiet as we figure it all out.
tisland Jesus becomes real to those who truely seek him. I did at the age of 24 on 12-26-83. I am still on that journey walking down that narrow road. Its sad men think like this man. I have been shown so much and in this post modern present age of overwelming information, embarrishment of riches, the preserved scroll of Isaiah im surprised to find such stubborn ignorant men. Its obvious this man has never seeked with his whole heart, he just flat out refuses to believe.
tisland great thinking as a farther I'm in line with your views we act as facilitators with a generous heart regardless of the shortcomings of our off springs. love does not require invisible remote spectors
@@jimchumley6568 You say "it's sad men think like this man," but you must admit "this man" does think; and after what appears to me like considerable time and effort thinking about his subject (whether Jesus even existed at all as a single real being), he concludes based on his study that Jesus is essentially a myth. Why you think this is a "sad" situation I do not know. It's what we expect of reasonable, fact-based study of any subject. You, however, sought out Jesus and somehow got "shown so much," but perhaps based on space constraints you don't say precisely what. But based on what you do write, though, I can't agree that Mr. Price is a "sad man."
ruben choychoo Sad, I would argue, is men flying planes into buildings, full of innocent people, on the assumptions they take from a literal interpretation of a religious book, that also shares the globe with 100’000 other religions, past, present and future. Christianity is only currently less crazy than most, but you don’t get a pass from reality just because you happen to follow the slightly more peaceful interpretation of the same books.. That’s fantastic that your a great dad, I highly respect you for that, I just think it’s sad that you are under some delusion that you couldn’t be that great person without the existence of some external being. I can’t think of a more sad situation facing humanity today. You attribute all good things to something else, rather than, the hard work, sacrifices and decisions you made yourself, good or bad. I understand this will probably be met by deaf ears but I do this for those who can imagine outside their own, house, church, small town, and country. I’m not sure that most Christians understand that in other parts of the globe, their are people using the same exact excuses and evidences, for their divine religion, that they themselves currently use. Those other religions are just as convincing, when you are born and raised in their country of origin, just a small bit of rationality can point to why that is.
2 Corinthians 4:4 “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” King James Version (KJV)
Jesus or yes us was Joseph's consciousness along with the 12 others. The Bible is biology and the way our bodies work. All similar stories the same knowledge. The son of man walks teaching conscious free will and one truth SELAH💪🙌💪
The most damning evidence is that Paul, doesn’t seem to know any of the biographical facts that any Christian would know. Born in Bethlehem, son of Joseph and Mary, killed by Pilate, Carpenter, betrayed by Judas, etc.. Yet it is by oral tradition that these facts were preserved so that after the destruction of the Temple, the Gospels could be written. What apologists claim is that Paul was not interested at all in the historical Jesus, just in the Lord Jesus. So Paul, had no interested in miracles, parables or any other details about Jesus life. The whole story collapses right here. That whole story was made up after Paul died. If Jesus was a Carpenter, they would have found a Chair or table Jesus made and the High Priest would have seated right there.. it’s just not credible that Paul didn’t know a single parable, miracle or historical event surrounding Jesus life.
I do believe Jesus saved me from cancer, a car accident and a near drowning....Did I just get lucky? No their is a Creator named Jesus or God...I believe in miracles, I am living proof 🤔🤔🤔🤔🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻❤❤❤❤. May all of you have a nice day, by the way I'm no bible beater, just a human....
As a Christian, I find that of Price and Ehrman, Dr. Price has the more reasonable position. Rejecting the Gospels but saying "He existed though but was just a normal guy" makes much less sense than just saying the story was made up entirely.
I'll bet that there was a historical Jesus, but most of the gospel narratives are made-up by various writers long after Jesus was dead. The stupidest part of the whole gospel narrative (yes - it's hard to pick just one from so many absurdities in those narratives) is the most embarrassing thing they all agree on: *The apostles betrayed and abandoned their friend Jesus to his death by torture. If that didn't happen then the all apostles would not have all admitted to it.* The rest of the narrative is essentially garbage. Jesus was just an ordinary man like the rest of the apostles, and his rising from the dead and then forgiving the apostles, as well as making them church leaders before going off to heaven, is total and utter garbage. Jesus was really dead and he stayed dead. The apostles really did abandon him, but they used lies to make money with a resurrection cult after his death. The early part of the New Testament book *Acts of the apostles* chapters *4 and 5,* documents how the apostles gained wealth and power from their lies about a resurrected Jesus. The first Christian revisionist - Paul - joined the apostles later, and and after much arguing convinced them to allow non-Jews to join their weird little Messiah cult. This long argument between Paul and the original apostles, mostly about circumcision, is documented in the New Testament book *Acts of the apostles.* as well as in Paul's letters from the New Testament. Paul's religious innovation - essential abandoning most of the Jewish religious requirements - was an excellent tactical move considering that the Romans then destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD and killed or expelled most Jews from the region. If Paul hadn't convinced the apostles to allow non-Jews into their cult just before the destruction of Jerusalem, their whole religion would have been wiped from the face of the earth back then. After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, the new non-Jewish Christian revisionists now living outside of Palestine then edited and composed most of the mythology we see in the New Testament today. These later revisionists didn't know much about Judaism, which is why most of their Jesus mythology seems strange even to Jews, even though _the original Jesus was an ordinary Jew - a friend of the apostles - killed by the Romans long before._
Interesting theory, thank you for the comment. The impact of the War must have made a large impression on the writer(s) of the gospel and the development of Christianity. Most of the theological commentary is in opposition to the Jewish religious leaders and to correct the misunderstandings of the disciples. The narrative presents itself as a theological/political discourse. Were the writers were more interested in making a point, than making a fact? The greatest amount (19) of extant fragments (prior to the 4th century) comes from the gospel of John. Only two from the gospel of Mark. The synoptic gospels all have the commentary on the destruction of the Jewish temple, except for John. The story of Lazarus's resurrection (he beats Jesus by one day in the grave) is only found in John's gospel. John's gospel only accounts for weeks. Was it the first of the four? People read the gospels as fact, fiction or folly. I believe that one might read and understand the writing better within the historical context of the time. We are hoping to present more interviews and introduce some additional information to color the discussion.
Can you explain the complexity of Jesus Christ being present at the creation of reality, being pre-figured in the spotless lamb that was to be sacrificed and whose blood was to be put on the door posts and lintels but none of it's bones to be broken, during passover and the Exodus of Israel. And then 15 centuries later the gospels document how Jesus Christ was both the high priest to Israel...and the spotless lamb of God who was sacrificed but none of his bones were broken? How can a couple of dozen writers centuries apart conceive of something that profound? Jesus, both man and God at the same time...Jesus both the high priest who offers the sacrifice and the lamb who is sacrificed at the same time. If you have ANY capacity to reason you would clearly see that no one could just make that up. Hollywood can't even get a sequel right after five years.
What about the Muslim Faith.is that also a mythology.I believe Jesus is my Lord.all these videos try to debunk Jesus what about others like the Islam faith.
I just read that Frankenstein’s monster is currently living in northern Minnesota not far from the Canadian border which he crossed about 100 years ago after walking from northern Norway across the polar ice into northern Canada working his way south and now lives in that small town of Minnesota that’s actually the home of Swedish and Norwegian elves who also left Europe and came to America through the Great Lakes and upper Peninsula of Michigan and on to Minnesota two or 300 years ago. Where he is currently fighting Victor Frankenstein’s second monster who was made from the body parts of Dracula and is now a Frankenstein Dracula hybrid. This is obviously a true story because I see it written in a book so it must be true because they would never write a book that didn’t contain the absolute truth. I think there are three books currently in the series. Frankenstein’s monster now known as Frank Victorsson and in the past 200+ years his scars have faded and his skin is only slightly ashen. The title of the book is Monster Born written by Kris Austin Radcliffe so there you have it a real book written by a real person so it must be true. I forgot to tell you about the werewolves tribe that lives nearby and the two other vampires. All under the protection of the elves.
Jesus loves you all....he died for you and maybe pay a little attention to the book of revelation..proficy is being fulfilled as we speak and was foretold by our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Jesus is in the Roman archives,and found all over Middle East writings,in Ethiopia there is a book written with Gold leaf guarded by soldiers 24/7 recounting Christ.The Roman Empire changed to Christianity after his death.Islam has Christ as one of its five pillars and called him the prophet of the heart.
Jesus this love you have for your father .who will ever understand it .my Jesus this precious union you have with your most beloved father no one will ever understand .even to the ends of time .the love of god the father for his son and the love of the son for his most beloved and cherished father .Jesus save me from myself help me to love you
Even though it's been a year since this Conversation took place William 4000 hrs of research? Long time for nothing. Did it ever occur to you that books are not the all in information gathering, sometimes you have to let go and take the first step. What was it oh yeah Repent Or didn't you happen to notice that little thing. If your heart isnt opened to the father by the son your heart will not be opened by the father to the son.
That's interesting. All these gospels written in Greek as opposed to Aramaic or Hebrew, like the Dead Sea scrolls, can give the impression that the origination of the Christian movement was a form of Jewish Hellenism based in Greece or Alexandria. Of course they would have knowledge of Jewish sects. The Essenes, according to Josephus, were a wide spread Jewish sect that share many gospel and epistle attributes and are not mentioned at all in the Gospels. See chapter eight. www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/josephus/war2.html
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. - Psalm 14:1 KJB Due to IMPORTANCE, He repeats Himself! The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. - Psalm 53:1 KJB
I would not attempt to make the case that Jesus Christ is existing; rather, I would attempt to make the point that if He were existing He would not be willing that it should be possible that His own Christian could be more convincing about Him than He would be willing to be convincing about Himself. Notwithstanding that the anti-Christian would be faulting the Christian for his failure to be convincing about the Christ it makes all the difference that the Christ would not be faulting the Christian for that.
Anyone ,,,,,can say anything! However The prophecy's that Jesus Christ spoke of regarding His return to stop the world from total distruction is quite evident that someone knows something more than we do! Say what you will God is coming to take back what belongs to him and his elect ! Look at what man has done to this world and is going to insanely to continue doing on a biblical scale ! As The Lord has said in Isaiah chapter 42 verse 8 "Behold the former things have come to pass. and new things do i declare: before they spring I tell you of them ! Besides should we believe a man or the Word of God !
I done believing in something I cannot see. Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.
...and this is so true. I believe you. You're probably not a nut. Just an insecure human who needs comforting thoughts of a god who will take care of you during and after your life here on earth. People really don't care about the truth of what they believe. Most people only care about what FEELS good.
Or the gospel writers wrote fiction based on recycled content from Isaiah and Psalms. Even Isaiah is proven to be written by multiple authors and contain fake prophecies written after the fact. You have fiction on top of fiction.
Anyone who delves deeply enough into this subject with an open mind, and examines all the evidence, and lack thereof, critically with an unbiased viewpoint, comes inevitably to the conclusion that Jesus is a mythological figure with no historical basis. Historical scholars have known for hundreds of years that Josephus' _Antiquities_ had the references to Jesus inserted much later, and yet Christian apologists continue to mislead honest truth-seekers by referring to those passages as proof of the historicity of Jesus. Christianity should only be taught in the same context as other mythologies, e.g. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, et al, because that is all it really is, and when one studies all the mythologies of the peoples in that area, one can readily see the similarities.
Hi William Allman, actually there are reasonable and unbiased people who are neither convinced that Jesus was a historical figure, nor convinced that he was purely mythical. To those people including myself, both claims do not appear to have met their burden of proof, therefore we are agnostic on the point. Let either side meet their burden of proof, then we will follow them.
+Michelle Wong I was, of course, referring to those of reasonable constitution who understand that nothing can be known with 100% certainty and are thus satisfied with what is _most likely_ to be true, rather than those eternal fence-sitters known as agnostics, of whom I counted myself one until encountering a philosophical argument which compelled me to stop being a fence-sitter.
William Allman, please note: It's hard to say what's most likely when the data is so corrupted and tampered with or simply doesn't exist because of the nature of history preservation or lack thereof in unstable times. If Jesus was just a real-life carpenter with no miraculous powers nor huge cult following at the beginning, and all the miracle stories sprung up later, why would you expect that contemporaneous historians like Philo would record anything much about him? Also:
Matt Dillahunty (as an example amongst many) is not convinced of either position. You are the one bringing up 100% certainty, no one else mentioned it, and your "100%" straw-man is not the test which I or Dillahunty or countless others espouse. There is too much water under the bridge to know, so I sit on the fence with valid reason. I believe you go too far in coming down on the mythicist side of the fence. Even Richard Carrier has publicly said that it's perfectly reasonable to be agnostic about it. The focus of Carrier's attacks are against the positions espoused by Ehrman and the majority consensus of scholars which come down strongly on the historicist side.
You are welcome to convince yourself to come off the fence, but please hold off your attacks against the agnostics until (and if) more data comes to light.
+Michelle Wong I'm curious to know what straw man you're referring to, since I did not state your position but only my own. I don't really care what Mr. Dillahunty's, or anyone else's, position on the matter is, it's not a popularity contest. I conducted my own research into the matter several decades ago and, as I said earlier, was not entirely convinced either, or was agnostic (as you put it) until relatively recently. I am not claiming to know for certain but have merely satisfied myself of what is most likely to be true, based on all the available evidence. You may think the data is so corrupted and tampered with, or "too much water under the bridge to know", but as I said, I'm not talking about _knowing_, which _implies_ 100% certainty, and I probably had resources (such as university libraries) which you have not utilized, and I have a high degree of confidence that my conclusion is most likely correct, but like any good scientist I am open to new data which may cause me to revise that conclusion.
William Allman, you have not met your burden of proof (greater than 50% chance likelihood) to my satisfaction. Until such time that you come up with better evidence, I say good day kind sir.
This is just hilariously on point. Comparing Jesus to comic book heroes is something I had not previously thought of. Price is brilliant.
+Jedi, Hey, wacko, don't go murdering any infants while you're on some religious rant: "This is what the Lord Almighty says...Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Samuel 15:2-3).
Jedi Pauly Nice cut and paste...and run. You imbecile. I am embarrassed for you.
Fred Azbell Yeah hes brilliant allright!😂LOL!
Yeah, kind of telling when he goes boss mode for the things everyone feared back then: death, illness (the mysterious kind & demon-based, and what do you think water-to-wine meant about the water back then?), oceans/seas (drowning in deep, dark water), and like icing on a cake, he freakin' flies off the ground like superman -- into the damn clouds, or as everyone retarded by this fine piece of literary stupidity, heaven!!! Nice work, whoever wrote Acts!
...and wouldn't you know it, angels have the best weaponry of the time: swords !!! One that SPINS, too !!!! And Jesus is said to be coming back on the best warfare transportation of the day.....a BIG, FINE ASS WHITE HORSE MUTHAFUGGA...BEWARE THE WHINNIE AND H2H COMBAT !!!!
Get this book you won't be disappointed: www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/022627148X/?colid=3GS6JA2CK69CP&coliid=I1SE3PMQSM8O93&ref_=lv_ov_lig_uan_ol
I believed in Jesus for 20 years.
I stopped believing in Jesus for 20 years.
Nothing happened either way.
I've since decided to leave Jesus alone.
Soon everyone will be off this false Roman invented Aberhamic religion Jesus juice!
Scott Louis Smith: I wish it was soon.
Please come back to the lord . He loves you . Why did you leave him ?
@@scottlouissmith2382
I would like to share a testimony of mine with you of being in the presence of my savior Jesus .
Years back I was at church and my pastor had just got done praying over me .
She had then announced that Jesus was there . I could feel him behind me filling me up with pure love . I had even reached out to hold onto his hand . It was the best day of my life .
Remember Jesus is the only way to heaven . Whoever believes in him will be saved .
There is only one way to heaven . It is through Jesus .
I tried to read the Bible from beginning and I noticed from the genesis chapter that there were other people apart from Adam and Eve, and I said waaa? That was it!
Exactly! Cain slew his brother Abel; God tossed him out of Eden and he and HIS WIFE fled to a CITY.... Where the hell did they come from?
+Jedi, If you only believed in harmless fairy tales about a talking snake, talking donkey, 900-year-old men, virgin birth and zombies...it would just be absurd but so what? You have a right to be as gullible and ignorant as you like. But your fake holy book tells fanatics to murder children and infants, murder gays, murder witches, to take slaves and whip them as a punishment, and tells credulous idiots that they can drink deadly poison--which ends up killing them. Your holy book is a source of evil in the world...and again...is proven to be false by science, archaology and biblical scholars. The ignorant, superstitious savages who wrote your fake holy book knew less about how the world really works than the average child today. You've been lied to, and your book of lies is harming people. I shouldn't have to tell educated people in the 21st century that liars are more likely than talking snakes, 900-year-old men, zombies--or hundreds of other ridiculous claims in your book of mythology. Even you can understand why that's true. We have LOTS of evidence of liars--and ZERO evidence for virgin births, talking snakes, demigods, etc. It's a shame that you're unable to differentiate truth from fiction.
Dumi Sani Different times & generations. All you did was just get your feet a little wet.
Million and million of martyrs died for Jesus, how unwise was for them not to read the bible, they gave their life for no reason, how stupid we millions of orthodox Christians are today not to read the bible as you did.
I don't mean to be ironic, just want to put some contrast! Bible is not a cooking reciepe, this should be obvious from most of the bible which is impossible to even understand let alone interpreting correctly!
If knowledge was the salvation God would send an angel, explain it all and voila planet earth was saved.
If knowledge was the salvation, my father would have given me a notebook of advises and voila I would had avoided all the stupid things I said and did in my life.
Jedi Pauly. No one reads posts as long as yours. Too long; didn't read.
Thank you Dr Price for showing that how they alter background stories in Superman to fit new needs and how this could have happened in the Jesus story as well.
TorianTammas Who gave this ignorant fool a DR label. Jesus was right in calling men like this "educated fools".
Love it! Love Price! Love how seamlessly, the context of Jesus, fits a super hero comic book. Love how a secular, unbiased look at religion, could’ve saved so many lives in the past present and future.
Thank you again for taking the time and effort. It is clear that you love delving and are so willing to share and help set others free.
Critical thinking is the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.
It is done to discover what is true - without fear of retaliation.
Neither Yeshua nor his father, Yahweh, would approve of such a practice.
The early Gnostics viewed Jesus as more of a metaphor and a pathway to finding the inner truth in ourselves. They all pretty much were influenced by Paul's writing and Paul writes like one who is experiencing Jesus in a vision instead a real life man.
Jesus hallucinates a meeting with Satan in the desert after starving himself for over a month.
Satan is supposed to be Yahweh's obedient slave but Jesus is supposed to be Yahweh in human form.
St. Paul was a known epileptic who suffered a grand mal seizure that triggered a blast of lightning inside his brain circuits and a voice asking him why he was persecuting the Christians.
The actual words that Saul reported hearing were "Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecute me? - "me" meaning Yahweh, the Hebrew god.
What I'm seeing here is abnormal electrical activity throughout Paul's brain. A short circuit in the firing neurons of a man probably troubled by a guilty conscience.
Furthermore, the voice Paul hears inside his head cannot be from Yahweh, who is all powerful and cannot suffer persecution at the hands of his own creation.
Thank you Robert Price and 11thstory.
The only reason to believe Jesus might have been historical is simply the overwhelming scholarly consensus. But when weighing the evidence, the more parsimonious case is that he is mythical.
Yes, but is the consensus based on assumptions? 400 years ago the consensus was that the sun revolved around the earth.
Same could be said for Pythagoras, Homer, Socrates, Buddha, Confucius, Sun Tzu, Hannibal, Qin Shi Huang, Queen Himiko, Catherine of Alexandria, Ambrosious Aurelius, Muhammad, Ragnar the Viking, William Wallace, etc.
uncleanunicorn Nice use of vocab but empty rhetoric. Just saying...
Socrates's existence is on a much firmer basis than that of Jesus, since it is attested by several different eye witness accounts from historical authors who were alive at the time such as Plato, Xenophon and Aristophanes. Along with that, there is no real utility in inventing a Socrates, whereas we know that many figures are invented for religious reasons. What is imponderable with respect to Socrates is not so much his existence, but whether he or Plato was actually responsible for the thoughts ascribed to him by Plato.
The methodologies and criteria which Richard Carrier utilizes also seem more a bit more 'scientific' than the majority of those used in the past. History is being treated a bit more structurally and less artistically every day.
Apollo ran a tanning salon in Athens. Love Dr Robert M Price.
tx for the video.. (If i can make one small critique, I would not have broken up the speaker.. I wouldve left his talk as he gave it,, followed with the nice music and awesome art selections you picked. Great either way though, tx again.
Thank you for the comment.
winston smith I would of ended the video with a big pile of steaming shit, which came forth from his mouth.💩
The only Mythicist who's an actual bible scholar... _and_ a gentleman
Atheos B. Sapien Religion always reaches to thwart, sound reasoning and honesty, but if you must do this to feel good, then just keep at it and good luck.
Atheos B. Sapien: you're right, there are a number of Mythicists who are actual bible scholars and gentlemen and women.
Strange: on concil of Nicäa in 325 the bishops debated: "Had been Jesus on earth, was he of flesh and blood and the son of god."
This shows clearly: all fiction.
Wow Olivia, I didn't know that. That is very interesting to me, thanks for sharing.
Olivia Baklaton As a former traditional, Latin Mass-attending Catholic who has recently done an about-face vis the Abrahamic religions, I can say you're taking this quote out of context. The whole debate at Nicea was about whether Jesus Christ was just a man, or both God and man. So, in the second part of the text you quoted (I don't know whether this quote was in the documents of the council, but let's assume it was), you'd better understand it if you emphasize the word 'AND'. So, they're taking for granted that he was of flesh and blood, and the question they're attempting to answer canonically is whether he was divine.
Hi Gestr, your point is noted about Council of Nicea. Let's see what Olivia Baklaton comes back with, hopefully something solid because I expressed support for Olivia's post and I hope that Olivia did not lead me up a garden path. By the way, I also was once a traditional Tridentine Latin-mass-goer, then I realised it was all BS and I had to do an about-face too. Strange thing is, most of my friends from that church are still there. It baffles me that they haven't smelled a rat like I did. After smelling a rat, I investigated it thoroughly, and yes there is a rat there!
Gestr But there were sects like the marcionites who did think Jesus was a celestial figure. Maybe even Paul, who never refers to the gospel stories, and never refers to any earthly doings of Jesus.
It's hard to reverse engineer the birth of a religion so long after the fact, but the syncretist hypothesis that Price likes sounds good to me. It had to come from somewhere, and the Hellenic mystery religions of the era seem at least as likely as a "real" origin, or as a divine visitation.
Olivia Baklaton All this was ruled out after his resurrection.
I like the music. I like the images. I like the lecture.
I'm not sure that combining them all together is the best editorial decision.
The most memorable comment I recall Price made regarding whether or not the Bible is the "Word of God," the "Word Incarnate," or the "Word made flesh," etc. is when he compared various Biblical miracles to the statement "it is raining cats and dogs." Price then said, "Do you believe at one time it did rain cats and dogs? And if it did once rain cats and dogs, why did things change [why doesn't it rain cats and dogs anymore]?" I think this is Price's best angle and he could develop it further. I keep searching for videos where he does something similar.
Also, I would like to comment that for many evangelical Christians, President Trump was "appointed by God," just as the Kingdom of God was once equated with the King David and the building of the temple by his son Solomon. The Kingdom of God is political, not "religious." So, in this bizarre sense where Trump has been appointed by God, this makes Trump the new "King of the Jews" instead of David, and instead of Jesus. I wonder if Trump will have the audacity to kick the Muslims out of Jerusalem, tear down the mosques they have built, and build a third Temple. After all, Trump has to do what his constituents elect him to do and I am sure evangelicals would be thrilled if Trump built a Temple in addition to moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.
I have long since severed my associations with evangelicals, but I can think of one former friend in particular who would be angry and upset if I did not agree with her that the Trump administration is the Kingdom of God on earth.
Deborah Khora Hope you didnt severe your association with Jesus. If you did you were never one of us in the first place. Very sad.
Excellent commentary on the story of Jesus. Very well reasoned through.
I wish he would address other non-religious New Testament scholars who disagree with him. I'm thinking here about Francesca Stavrakopoulou specifically. We don't get the luxury of being able to read and/or even understand their journals so this would be a refreshing change of pace. A lot of these presentations seem to take place in a vacuum devoid of any real discussion between the saner heads in their field.
I'm slightly familiar with Dr. Starvrakopoulou and her observations about the garden of Eden story being a metaphor for an event that may have happened to real king. In one of our upcoming videos we are going to go into depth about the garden of Eden story. At this time, I don't agree with her conclusion, but I believe she makes a good case that we should view the garden and temple as significantly tied together.
Absolute class
It's not just the passion narrative, Jesus's entire character seems to be an amalgamation of the Jewish rebels mentioned in Josephus i.e.John of Giscala, Simon bar giora, Jesus ben Ananias, Simon of Perea, The Egyptian, The Samaritan, Judas of Galilean, Theudas the Imposter, Eleazar, etc, and several O.T. prophets and messiah figures such as Joseph, Moses, David, Joshua, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, and Job. And it would appear that Jesus is partially based on Josephus himself.
In our other video, Lena Einhorn talks about the Timeshift and why she thinks the Gospel narrative setting precedes the War. The birth of Jesus coincides with the birth of the Jewish rebellion, starting with Judas the Galilean. It's also interesting that both the Egyptian and Theudas were impersonating or attempting to recreate the acts of the OT Joshua. Carrier and others remark on how the passion selection is set up between Jesus the Messiah and Jesus Bar Rabbas (Son of the Fathers). The sacrificial lamb and the goat (rebel) who is released into the wilderness with sin. It appears that the Gospels are distancing themselves from elements of Judaism they may have been associated with the rebellion.
Soundtrack is freakin awesome!!!!
5:49 Apollo ran a tanning salon in Athens... LMAO
Retcon stands for retroactive continuity, just saying
I wish Bob would comment on this. Considering the common belief at the time -- certainly by Paul -- in a multi-tiered heaven and the reflectivity between the layers of the heavens and the earth itself (as above, so below), it seems reasonable and entirely possible -- given that Paul did indeed see the Savior as being crucified somewhere in the heavens as Price indicates -- that Paul would have reasoned this crucifixion would also have been reflected upon the earth in some fashion? One could play around with the idea in debating exactly HOW Paul would have seen this happening in terms of how it would have appeared to ordinary people in Galilee and Judea ... what form this reflective 'savior' would have taken on the earth plane, but my question for Bob would be, "Would not Paul have searched for any evidence that SOMETHING happened on earth reflecting what was a momentous event he clearly believed had occurred in the heavens?"
Maybe Paul did learn of some guy who created a disturbance in the Temple and was executed by Pilate. My point is that Paul might have latched onto this relatively unimportant news event and seen it as confirming what had happened in the heavens above. So he would have noted it in passing in his writings but not emphasized it because the main event he believed had happened ABOVE the earth.
So it does seem somewhat likely that Paul did know of some event related to a possible earthly Jesus. In fact, Paul might have heard of this event long before his conversion, and that is what got him thinking along these lines. Maybe that earthly Jesus did believe and proclaim himself as the long awaited Savior, but no one believed him, and Pilate certainly would not have. Clearly, it is very possible Paul would consider such an epic event in the heavens to be reflected in some way upon the earth.
Interesting that no one I am aware of has ever commented on this. It seems so obvious.
I can't find the second song anywhere. Is there a video up on TH-cam?
Saul / Paul created the concept of Jesus.
Dr. Price questions in what era Jesus actually lived and there are some historians that feel the Jesus story came about rather in the 2nd century rather than the 1st! One big reason is the small town of Nazareth where Jesus supposedly grew up wasn't anywhere on the map until the 2nd c. Another reason is there is no mention of the 4 Gospels ANYWHERE in secular history until around 150 AD.
Biblical scholar John Dominic Crossan in :"Excavating Jesus: Beneath the Stones, Behind the Texts" points to references of late 1st or early 2 century in the gospels.
11th story--thx so much 4 the replay as I forgot where I read that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was Crossan.
But he's the only one out of 100's of scholar's I've read. Not even Bart Ehrman raises this pt up!
Just found my ultimate comic heroes expert.
Kris You just found an ignorant fool!
If we humans could keep the social cohesiveness and emotional strength that Religion provides, but accept the foundational stories as the interesting Myths that they are, Religion could be a valuable part of the modern world.
Like murdering children and infants? "This is what the Lord Almighty says...Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Samuel 15:2-3).
I love to listen to multiple points of view and help make informed decisions. Does anyone know if Price ir others deal with so many early christians dying for their faith or worse, getting others to die, for what so obviously now is said to be a myth? Strikes me that someone of the proponents would have recanted the fiction over seeing innocents slaughtered by the religious or political rulers of the day.
This guy is right, Jesus IS myth. The only reason he is considered to be historical is because a whole industry rests on him being a historical figure. There are many reasons that why he is a mythical figure but most important reason is all his teachings go against what all great historical figures have said about spiritual truths and God.
The Legend Yes an industry does cash in on JE$U$ but true followers of Jesus know this Lord, Messiah and Savior.
I would like to share a testimony of mine with you of being in the presence of Jesus .
Years back I was at my church and my pastor had just got done praying over me . She then announced that Jesus was there . I could feel him behind me . He was filling me up with pure love . I even reached out to hold onto his hand . It was the best day of my life . Being in his presence.
Remember the only way to heaven is through the son Jesus . Our savior. God bless
Can someone write down the names, referenced in the talk, so I can do some research on them please.
+Johnny TwoShoes Watch it again and write them down yourself you lazy twit.
Jesus ben Ananias - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_ben_Ananias
Dr Bob... 1981 would be correct for this rendition of Batman. U know I love you. Check out what's on the cinema starring George Hamilton in the excellent Joker movie....xx
Great explanation
Plutarch says that Osiris was a being who lived in the circumambient air and not on earth at all.
So?
how long did it take you to debunk Santa Claus and the reindeer and Frosty the Snowman and the Great Pumpkin and Rudolph
a bride for christ oooh please explain because I never heard of this
The only problem I'm getting with all of this is the vagueness of any details. Please, In your research can you pinpoint an approximate time when the Jesus myth was made up? Who made it up (obviously I understand you won't have any names, but at least a people group - was it Romans, was it Jews - if so, what sect of Judaism?)? and also why the myth was made? what was the motive for someone to make this up?
I'm new to this so be nice. :)
Hello David! Great questions. If you watch our video with Richard Carrier "The Gospel According to Carrier" it outlines several reasons why the gospels may have been written. One notable sect not mentioned in the gospels is the Essenes. According to the historian Josephus, the Essenes were influential in every city in Palestine and shared many characteristics with early Christian teachings, including those in the gospels. Josephus also mentions their significant persecution during the Roman war.
During the period of the 130 year conflict with Rome, many Messianic figures emerged. This turbulent era forms the context in which the gospels were composed. Dr. Price suggests that the figure of Jesus draws on multiple personalities, including rebel leaders who resisted Rome. However, the Jesus depicted in the gospels isn't interested in opposing the Romans but instead focuses on reforming Judaism. This Jesus remains notably neutral on Rome’s harsh rule.
By 70 AD, the destruction of the Temple left the Jewish community without its spiritual center. The gospels offered a new path, a philosophy no longer bound to a specific place. Many early Christian apologists saw the Temple’s fall as evidence of Jesus’s prophecy fulfilled, interpreting it as a sign that Judaism had failed to recognize the true Messianic figure. It’s my belief that all the gospels were written after this event. This figure would have appealed to Hellenistic Jews living in the diaspora.
Unless you consider the other side, orthodox theology, I mean well educated orthodox theologians, your personal believes and thoughts cannot be taken seriously at all!
Anyway, people of this kind and all other ones who have slaughtered millions of Christians do not consist a threat for Christianity, everyone is dying but Christianity is here.
The only people who do cause damage to Christianity, are people who come in to support Christianity. See pope, protestants, heretic missionaries or debaters etc.
Anyway, Christianity is all about "get your cross and follow me", is not about debates and history and full biography and explaining the dinosaurs etc. All these are easy for God to present however this path takes you nowhere. The point is the repentance and the realization that we are given as much info as God's wisdom decided is needed!
Jesus is a fictional character from a fictional book.
Thank you for the 20K+ views!
Why aren't my comments being posted publicly? What's up with that? I come in from another browser without signing in and my comment is not there. I'm having the same problem over at Ehrmans channel. I've tested my comments on other channels and they're posting publicly.
We moderate and approve most comments daily, but were a few days late on this video.
Mr Price at the end when you said Jesus us like the Frankenstein monster where pieces of other men from history have been taken and put together isn't that a metafore for a beast and if he is the head figure of western religion doe's that not mean that many have already taken the mark of the beast by converting and also believing in western and Muslim religion ? If you summarize the Numbers of those two religion that could account for almost the whole world meaning many are deceived . please tell me what you think thank you
Respect to a fictional figure that has lasted over 2000 years while we have already forgotten Michael Jackson .
Price got his clocked cleaned on this topic in the debate. this is why Carrier will never dare debate Ehrman on the same topic and let it be recorded...
Why isn't my comment posting? What's the point of a comment section if you will not allow a comment to be posted publicly? I'm having the same problem over at Ehrman's channel. Mighty peculiar.
TH-cam has a spam filter that sometimes wrongly rejects comments.
To stop this do not add links and do not edit.
It will also happen sometime when you post a lot of comments.
It is called ghost blocking.
All holy books are subject to changes and contradictions. Religion is a nice idea ,but so ambiguous and vague you can't take it seriously.
Whats the song?????
A link to our song knowledge. soundcloud.com/11thstory/knowledge
I've subscribed
Heretics in greek means philosophers. To hate the thinkers of the ages tells us how those psycopats thougt.
jesus that was a long intro
Has anybody ever wondered about all the things we are told about in religion like Angels, Demons, Jesus and God, Allah and Satan are all invisible could it be because they are not really real
So you do not believe In Jesus ?
Whether or not there was an Historical Jesus is beside the point as there is most certainly no God so therefore certainly no god in human form so other than an interesting foray into History and Mythologies it matters not in the end so be happy that you are originated from the stars themselves and we ourselves are the gods.
David Holcomb We will see kemosabie!
you're in for a shock then. 😈
Price's contention that Irenaeus thought that Jesus lived to be 50 years old is most likely a misinterpretation of the passage in question. However I will grant that the passage is kinda confusing and could interpreted in different ways. My point is that there is really no way for Price to assert that as a fact.
MathezarT One thing for sure you will never find his bones!😀
if people said Jesus dont exist, from now on, i will trust and believe richard dawkins as my "lord and savior" he is real, and exist in this earth, i hope dawkins always bless me. Hail Dawkins,
I did not understand that comment.
EXCALIBUR 1981 MOVIE AND STEVE REEVES
The bible writers used real historical people to tell their myths much like Shakespeare did with his stories. Myths are spiritual truths that have a deep meaning .......
Rama Yama Thats not truth at all. The followers of Jesus said; we were eye witnesses!
One of those myths is the resurrection of the nation of Israel as the major sign of the apocalypse being close...I wonder, did that happen? And if it did happen, how many other nations destroyed 20 centuries ago have re-emerged ? Let me know what you find out.
Perhaps Christopher Jon Bjerknes is correct.
11thstory: is 11thstory historical? Is birth historical, like death? Every human is only after birth and before death and resurrection.
Man lives to die, sounds no meaning.
Worry for the past is useful or Worry for the present is necessary?
Worry for the present involves rectification.
Man consists of 'inner' and 'outer', meaningful. Death makes man "outer" without "inner". Any "outer" without "inner" is useless.
Rectification is to provide "inner".
The singing ruins this video content. Is there a version available without music?
I'm frankly undecided if there were a Jesus the Nazerite (not Nazerine which means something entirely different). It doesn't matter to me anyway. Belief did not make my life more precious or easier. I have no need of Jesus.
isnt possible that domans used the story to somehow grow their power
Kwstas Askotis Domans?😂 Boy thats a good one! I believe you made God himself laugh.
To all in unbelief I would like to share a testimony of mine of being with you in the presence of Jesus .
Years back I was at church and my pastor had just got done praying over me . She then announced that Jesus was there . I could feel him behind me filling me up with pure love the purest of love . I had even reached out to hold onto his hand . I never will forget it . It was the best day of my life . Jesus is the only way to heaven and whoever believes in him will be saved . God bless you all .
@Ru22eLL and what drugs or seizures are you proposing?
Dear God. Thanks for making me an Atheist.
Me too! LOL!
@Zechariah12.10 Well thanks God for allowing me to WANT TO BE! LMAO!!!!!!!
Jewish cabal owns your Burundi ranch , give it to China if needed to pay the cabal over
I used to admire Price, and I agree with his Biblical scholarship and his mythicist stance, but I was disappointed to hear him say that he voted for Trump twice, and would do so again. Sorry Bob, but that demonstrates a serious lapse in judgement. There's no other way around that.
It's not just a Passion for nothing. ...
I wish William Lane Craig would grow up!!
Agreed
You know if Jesus is real, and or God the Father. I'm sure He is not oblivious to the confusion we are having in earth. As a Father, he will see his children searching for the truth and fix it. If my child is trying to figure out how to cross the street with passing cars, should I just watch from distance and let them figure it all out knowing their struggle to not get hit and/or suffer consequences. No, as a loving parent, absolutely no. I would immediately come to their rescue to prevent further struggle to stay alive because I love and protect. Also, legal authorities will also hold me accountable for not protecting my child.
Something is really strange about the principle of Jesus and God as entities that pushed out rules but are remaining quiet as we figure it all out.
tisland Jesus becomes real to those who truely seek him. I did at the age of 24 on 12-26-83. I am still on that journey walking down that narrow road. Its sad men think like this man. I have been shown so much and in this post modern present age of overwelming information, embarrishment of riches, the preserved scroll of Isaiah im surprised to find such stubborn ignorant men. Its obvious this man has never seeked with his whole heart, he just flat out refuses to believe.
tisland great thinking
as a farther I'm in line with your views
we act as facilitators with a generous heart regardless of the shortcomings of our off springs.
love does not require invisible remote spectors
@@jimchumley6568 You say "it's sad men think like this man," but you must admit "this man" does think; and after what appears to me like considerable time and effort thinking about his subject (whether Jesus even existed at all as a single real being), he concludes based on his study that Jesus is essentially a myth. Why you think this is a "sad" situation I do not know. It's what we expect of reasonable, fact-based study of any subject. You, however, sought out Jesus and somehow got "shown so much," but perhaps based on space constraints you don't say precisely what. But based on what you do write, though, I can't agree that Mr. Price is a "sad man."
ruben choychoo Sad, I would argue, is men flying planes into buildings, full of innocent people, on the assumptions they take from a literal interpretation of a religious book, that also shares the globe with 100’000 other religions, past, present and future. Christianity is only currently less crazy than most, but you don’t get a pass from reality just because you happen to follow the slightly more peaceful interpretation of the same books.. That’s fantastic that your a great dad, I highly respect you for that, I just think it’s sad that you are under some delusion that you couldn’t be that great person without the existence of some external being. I can’t think of a more sad situation facing humanity today. You attribute all good things to something else, rather than, the hard work, sacrifices and decisions you made yourself, good or bad. I understand this will probably be met by deaf ears but I do this for those who can imagine outside their own, house, church, small town, and country. I’m not sure that most Christians understand that in other parts of the globe, their are people using the same exact excuses and evidences, for their divine religion, that they themselves currently use. Those other religions are just as convincing, when you are born and raised in their country of origin, just a small bit of rationality can point to why that is.
@5:50 lmao!!
2 Corinthians 4:4
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
King James Version (KJV)
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mr. Price weaves fantastic stories. He should be employed by Marvel!
Jesus or yes us was Joseph's consciousness along with the 12 others. The Bible is biology and the way our bodies work. All similar stories the same knowledge. The son of man walks teaching conscious free will and one truth SELAH💪🙌💪
The most damning evidence is that Paul, doesn’t seem to know any of the biographical facts that any Christian would know. Born in Bethlehem, son of Joseph and Mary, killed by Pilate, Carpenter, betrayed by Judas, etc.. Yet it is by oral tradition that these facts were preserved so that after the destruction of the Temple, the Gospels could be written. What apologists claim is that Paul was not interested at all in the historical Jesus, just in the Lord Jesus. So Paul, had no interested in miracles, parables or any other details about Jesus life. The whole story collapses right here. That whole story was made up after Paul died. If Jesus was a Carpenter, they would have found a Chair or table Jesus made and the High Priest would have seated right there.. it’s just not credible that Paul didn’t know a single parable, miracle or historical event surrounding Jesus life.
Zechariah12.10 Actually, I’m using a shoe box made by Jesus.
I do believe Jesus saved me from cancer, a car accident and a near drowning....Did I just get lucky? No their is a Creator named Jesus or God...I believe in miracles, I am living proof 🤔🤔🤔🤔🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻❤❤❤❤. May all of you have a nice day, by the way I'm no bible beater, just a human....
We don't care
As a Christian, I find that of Price and Ehrman, Dr. Price has the more reasonable position. Rejecting the Gospels but saying "He existed though but was just a normal guy" makes much less sense than just saying the story was made up entirely.
Euhamerus=You Hammer Us!
I'll bet that there was a historical Jesus, but most of the gospel narratives are made-up by various writers long after Jesus was dead.
The stupidest part of the whole gospel narrative (yes - it's hard to pick just one from so many absurdities in those narratives) is the most embarrassing thing they all agree on:
*The apostles betrayed and abandoned their friend Jesus to his death by torture. If that didn't happen then the all apostles would not have all admitted to it.*
The rest of the narrative is essentially garbage. Jesus was just an ordinary man like the rest of the apostles, and his rising from the dead and then forgiving the apostles, as well as making them church leaders before going off to heaven, is total and utter garbage. Jesus was really dead and he stayed dead. The apostles really did abandon him, but they used lies to make money with a resurrection cult after his death. The early part of the New Testament book *Acts of the apostles* chapters *4 and 5,* documents how the apostles gained wealth and power from their lies about a resurrected Jesus.
The first Christian revisionist - Paul - joined the apostles later, and and after much arguing convinced them to allow non-Jews to join their weird little Messiah cult. This long argument between Paul and the original apostles, mostly about circumcision, is documented in the New Testament book *Acts of the apostles.* as well as in Paul's letters from the New Testament.
Paul's religious innovation - essential abandoning most of the Jewish religious requirements - was an excellent tactical move considering that the Romans then destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD and killed or expelled most Jews from the region. If Paul hadn't convinced the apostles to allow non-Jews into their cult just before the destruction of Jerusalem, their whole religion would have been wiped from the face of the earth back then.
After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, the new non-Jewish Christian revisionists now living outside of Palestine then edited and composed most of the mythology we see in the New Testament today. These later revisionists didn't know much about Judaism, which is why most of their Jesus mythology seems strange even to Jews, even though _the original Jesus was an ordinary Jew - a friend of the apostles - killed by the Romans long before._
Interesting theory, thank you for the comment. The impact of the War must have made a large impression on the writer(s) of the gospel and the development of Christianity. Most of the theological commentary is in opposition to the Jewish religious leaders and to correct the misunderstandings of the disciples. The narrative presents itself as a theological/political discourse. Were the writers were more interested in making a point, than making a fact?
The greatest amount (19) of extant fragments (prior to the 4th century) comes from the gospel of John. Only two from the gospel of Mark. The synoptic gospels all have the commentary on the destruction of the Jewish temple, except for John. The story of Lazarus's resurrection (he beats Jesus by one day in the grave) is only found in John's gospel. John's gospel only accounts for weeks. Was it the first of the four?
People read the gospels as fact, fiction or folly. I believe that one might read and understand the writing better within the historical context of the time. We are hoping to present more interviews and introduce some additional information to color the discussion.
Can you explain the complexity of Jesus Christ being present at the creation of reality, being pre-figured in the spotless lamb that was to be sacrificed and whose blood was to be put on the door posts and lintels but none of it's bones to be broken, during passover and the Exodus of Israel. And then 15 centuries later the gospels document how Jesus Christ was both the high priest to Israel...and the spotless lamb of God who was sacrificed but none of his bones were broken? How can a couple of dozen writers centuries apart conceive of something that profound? Jesus, both man and God at the same time...Jesus both the high priest who offers the sacrifice and the lamb who is sacrificed at the same time. If you have ANY capacity to reason you would clearly see that no one could just make that up. Hollywood can't even get a sequel right after five years.
Paul, what you write is a cogent and concise recap of the Christian cult's beginnings.
I have never seen any evidence that any of the gods existed. However, I have seen 100% evidence that all of these gods WANT YOUR MONEY.
What about the Muslim Faith.is that also a mythology.I believe Jesus is my Lord.all these videos try to debunk Jesus what about others like the Islam faith.
Well you're just wrong, there are no gods, of any religion.
What’s with the mediocre music
I just read that Frankenstein’s monster is currently living in northern Minnesota not far from the Canadian border which he crossed about 100 years ago after walking from northern Norway across the polar ice into northern Canada working his way south and now lives in that small town of Minnesota that’s actually the home of Swedish and Norwegian elves who also left Europe and came to America through the Great Lakes and upper Peninsula of Michigan and on to Minnesota two or 300 years ago. Where he is currently fighting Victor Frankenstein’s second monster who was made from the body parts of Dracula and is now a Frankenstein Dracula hybrid. This is obviously a true story because I see it written in a book so it must be true because they would never write a book that didn’t contain the absolute truth. I think there are three books currently in the series. Frankenstein’s monster now known as Frank Victorsson and in the past 200+ years his scars have faded and his skin is only slightly ashen. The title of the book is Monster Born written by Kris Austin Radcliffe so there you have it a real book written by a real person so it must be true. I forgot to tell you about the werewolves tribe that lives nearby and the two other vampires. All under the protection of the elves.
Jesus - the infinite monster
Jesus loves you all....he died for you and maybe pay a little attention to the book of revelation..proficy is being fulfilled as we speak and was foretold by our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Dr. Price fails to offer any kind of "mythic explanation" but rather a puzzling familiarity with comic book characters for a gentleman of his age.
This is just one video of many he's done covering a lot territory.
What is his Ph.D in? And where did he get his Ph.D?
He has two Ph.Ds.......
PP Strobilus Ph.D in Bullshit!
Jesus is in the Roman archives,and found all over Middle East writings,in Ethiopia there is a book written with Gold leaf guarded by soldiers 24/7 recounting Christ.The Roman Empire changed to Christianity after his death.Islam has Christ as one of its five pillars and called him the prophet of the heart.
Jesus this love you have for your father .who will ever understand it .my Jesus this precious union you have with your most beloved father no one will ever understand .even to the ends of time .the love of god the father for his son and the love of the son for his most beloved and cherished father .Jesus save me from myself help me to love you
A god or creater obviously exists. Just not the ones weve been taught in religions.
Yes, the Flying Spaghetti Monster
Even though it's been a year since this
Conversation took place
William 4000 hrs of research?
Long time for nothing.
Did it ever occur to you that books are not the all in information gathering, sometimes you have to let go and take the first step.
What was it oh yeah Repent
Or didn't you happen to notice that little thing. If your heart isnt opened to the father by the son your heart will not be opened by the father to the son.
Christianity, is a False Imitation, of the Original Gospel, of the Nazarenes, the Jewish Sect, of the first century.
That's interesting. All these gospels written in Greek as opposed to Aramaic or Hebrew, like the Dead Sea scrolls, can give the impression that the origination of the Christian movement was a form of Jewish Hellenism based in Greece or Alexandria. Of course they would have knowledge of Jewish sects. The Essenes, according to Josephus, were a wide spread Jewish sect that share many gospel and epistle attributes and are not mentioned at all in the Gospels. See chapter eight. www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/josephus/war2.html
the guy's scary!
Only to believers. Don't be afraid of the truth.
@@JennyKay513 Jesus loves you . Please come to him .
The only way to heaven is through the son .
all prophet ,massengers is myth
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. - Psalm 14:1 KJB
Due to IMPORTANCE, He repeats Himself!
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. - Psalm 53:1 KJB
I would not attempt to make the case that Jesus Christ is existing; rather, I would attempt to make the point that if He were existing He would not be willing that it should be possible that His own Christian could be more convincing about Him than He would be willing to be convincing about Himself. Notwithstanding that the anti-Christian would be faulting the Christian for his failure to be convincing about the Christ it makes all the difference that the Christ would not be faulting the Christian for that.
Anyone ,,,,,can say anything! However The prophecy's that Jesus Christ spoke of regarding His return to stop the world from total distruction is quite evident that someone knows something more than we do! Say what you will God is coming to take back what belongs to him and his elect ! Look at what man has done to this world and is going to insanely to continue doing on a biblical scale ! As The Lord has said in Isaiah chapter 42 verse 8 "Behold the former things have come to pass. and new things do i declare: before they spring I tell you of them ! Besides should we believe a man or the Word of God !
I done believing in something I cannot see.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.
It is sad that Price ended up being a right winger. He is constantly repeating right wing extremists propaganda. So I can't support his work anymore.
Lol the trouble is i know him personaly and im not some kind of nut. You can say all you want it will not change a thing
...and this is so true. I believe you. You're probably not a nut. Just an insecure human who needs comforting thoughts of a god who will take care of you during and after your life here on earth. People really don't care about the truth of what they believe. Most people only care about what FEELS good.
Jesus was predicted to come in Isiah and Psalms.
Or the gospel writers wrote fiction based on recycled content from Isaiah and Psalms. Even Isaiah is proven to be written by multiple authors and contain fake prophecies written after the fact. You have fiction on top of fiction.