Wilson is an excellent Pastor: Objective about the Truth and not Politicaly Correct at all. He's MacArthur without the filter and MacArthur barely has a filter. LOL. All three great Pastors. 👌
having just listened to a sermon by Doug Wilson where he spoke of envy as 20/20 blindness.. Piper right here critiques Wilson and some of the people around him oblivious to the fact of who's sitting right to his left
I don't quite understand why people get so up in arms about Doug Wilson. Perhaps at times they are not hearing what he is actually saying but although I don't always agree with him 100% (and sometimes I am just undecided) but for the most part he seems to be of an orthodox reformed persuasion. For example his position on covenant baptism seems to align with Westminster not Rome.
There's a fine line between guarding your doctrine closely and finding unnecessary reasons to divide the body of Christ. I think we're skewing that line both in this thread and even in the panel discussion. Our theological discussions can't take on an arrogant or bitter tone! Are we engaging those who think differently with humility and love in an effort to arrive at a clearer understanding of truth or are we just trying to be the thought police for all of Christianity?
@@apracity7672 Mark Driscoll was fired from his church for being abusive. Matt Chandler bent the knee to the woke culture. John Piper has done the same at times, but to nowhere near the extent.
how prophetic this video is...faithful...I think we all know who has proven himself faithful. Also, it dawns on me now that Chandler built his whole persona and mannerisms off of Piper...he just took Piper's wokism to a new level.
except neither are "woke" since the "woke" are really those who are really asleep and deluded, the opposite of Piper & Chandler who are vastly greater and more godly than their clueless critics.
I have a high regard for Dr. Piper as a theologian and God's servant but after this comments he said of Doug Wilson and the Presbyterians, I have lost some of that high regard I had for him. He says that Doug Wilson is "confused" but Dr. Piper is the one who is confused! Compared to Rick Warren (which Dr. Piper loves so much), I would take Doug Wilson anytime. I have used Matt Chandler's materials for our Bible study group, and I have found out what a confusing Bible teacher Matt Chandler is. I will never use his materials again; the whole bible study group did not like him. And lately, what about Matt Driscoll? He fall from the pedestal of Mars Hill. What Dr. Piper say about Matt Driscoll's fiasco? Nothing. So, Dr. Piper should not condemn the Presbyterians. They are not weird people. There are also genuine Christians among Presbyterians. As a Christian, I still love Dr. Piper inspite of his comments.
harpels agree, I don't understand when Piper says he has got the people around him that are dumb, i mean, wow how in the world Christian say that to his brothers? Let us be clear that not to use strong words against your own brothers and sisters. come on! heretic? when you say heretic, they are the one who wants to divide the church with some weird doctrines! is Doug Wilson like that? I don't think so. pls guys wake up! don't judge people like you know everything and you are the God of Judgment!
+Ben Booth I really doubt Matt Chandler understands what the heck John is talking about. Matt is a preacher, not an exegete or Theologian, you know, like 99.99% of the preachers out there.
blessings in Christ, Is John Piper worth a high regard? He is merely an antonimonion who is deceiving people with his false teachings of Christian 'hedonism' John Piper uses grandiose words and movements that tricks people and uses the sensual worlds music system to do this as well alongside the partnerships with Federal Vision, IHOP, Bethel, Hillsong, Beth Moore, CS Lewis, contemplative prayer mysticism, etc that John Piper loves and endorces. th-cam.com/video/snGefwQNvR8/w-d-xo.html link is ES Williams an elder at Spurgeons Tabernacle making the case that John Piper is an antoniminion and to be avoided as piper perverts the grace of Jesus Christ.
Appreciate the video! My mom balled her eyes out at the end, and this was her first time ever watching anything Lotr hobbit. So she loved it, the dwarves especially. We’re watching Lotr now and she’s loving it even more.. but always has a special place for the dwarves ❤️
I continue to be amazed at the number of atheists who comment on Christian TH-cam videos. It's not that I'm sorry that they're around, or that they anger me, or that I take offense because they belittle the cross, and cause, of Christ. I just don't get it, that's all. If I were an atheist, a true, bonafide, died in the wool atheist, I can't think of anything I'd rather do LESS than surf TH-cam clips of Christian content and comment on them. Weird.
@b22505 As a proponent of the FV, I disagree pretty much completely with "The New Perspective on Paul." One thing about the FV is that it is a common "vision" for certain things. For example, I've never even read a book by Rich Lusk (but I "hear things"). Doug Wilson (and to a lesser extent Peter Leithart) are the one's I have heard/read. Would you say these men, particularly Doug Wilson, the writer of the Joint FV statement, are in error? If so, in what way?
Clearly John Piper doesn't understand Federal Vision or he wouldn't be saying what he just said. But again he hangs out with Mark " Vision caster" Driscoll.
The Auburn Avenue Presbyterian Church (AAPC) was found to be promoting Federal Vision. It was about to be kicked out of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) when it resigned and joined Doug Wilson's following. Douglas Wilson, Steve Schlissel, John Barach, and J. Steven Wilkins, the pastor of AAPC, do not teach justification by faith ALONE, nor do they teach that justification is an event; they hold that it is a process. I am very disturbed by Piper's simplistic analysis of their position.
@b22505 This is a wrong understanding of the FV. They do certainly teach justification by faith alone. I grew up in the PCA, am the son of a PCA minister, and have now sat under Pastor Wilson's teaching for 5 years. I understand the doctrines of grace, and that is precisely what Doug Wilson teaches. There has been MUCH slander spread on blogs, which the PCA unfortunately listened to a little bit. When it comes to trials, every FV minister has been acquitted, most recently, Peter Leithart.
Because there's a evangelical debate over people like Doug Wilson and nt Wright where some are even saying that NT Wright is going to hell for preaching a different gospel, hence the question of lumping Doug with nt. This discussion got pretty heated and has cause a goood amount of animosity between christians. So John Piper understood, I believe, the cultural sensitivity to the issue, and as well the grave accusation the question is asking, which essentially is asking if Doug is a heretic.
@foucachon (Cont.) One issue is the confusion about the benefits of the covenant of grace. FV says that anyone baptized into the visible church receives all the saving benefits of the covenant of grace, forgiveness of sins, the imputation of Christ’s righteousness, effectual calling, regeneration, faith, justification, adoption, sanctification, including an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of Heaven even if they are not elect. I consider this to be baptismal regeneration.
Atheist Description: Code word for displaying hatred for Jesus and his salvation, but claiming they don’t believe in any god, but primarily picking upon Jesus. Claiming to be wise, but willfully ignorant. Fearful, trapped in sin, rebellious and angry because they are not satisfied with God. Generally blames Followers of Jesus for their hatred.
Received your pm. Thank you for the kind words. I will definitely look into it. In the end, the truth trumps any inclination, and biases we have. If it exposes him, I will change my opinion about him. Take care, and God bless.
NT Wright ABSOULTELY preaches a false gospel. He denies penal substitution which is the heart of the gospel. He says the idea of the Father punishing the Son is pagan. Thats the definition of heresy and a false gospel. If you cant call that a false gospel the word has no meaning.
John Piper, this was your prayer for Donald Trump on Jan 20, 2017: "Until that day Lord, in your wonderful providence, “The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will” (Proverbs 21:1). So, guard him from folly. Guard him from stupid decisions that would damage people, damage America, damage the church. Guard him. Superintend him and the congress in such a way that, beyond their explanation, things turn in a direction that makes for the kind of good that, even though it may not have faith in it, would have the form of faith in justice and love." Thank you, John, for praying this for Donald Trump. The Lord Jesus answered your prayer, and brought us 4 years of brilliant leadership (not perfect, mind you) that the church is still reaping the benefits of (does Jun 25th ring a bell?). Tell me, John: have you ever thanked God for answering your prayer?
Piper says that the problem with N.T. Wright's gospel is that it is too confusing, but then he admits that Doug Wilson can't clearly distinguish unregenerate and regenerate, saved and unsaved, salvation or going to hell. Now I'M confused!
That seemed to be confusion on Piper's part. Baptists equate those in the covenant with those God saves, but Reformed Christian's see those in the covenant as those professing faith in the visible church. So we baptize our household, including our babies, because we don't leave them at home on Sunday. We bring them to church where they sing and pray and hear a sermon and read the Word, and so are visibly part of the covenant community. Baptists tend to put themselves in a situation where they have to judge what is only visible to God, whereas Presbyterians evaluate what is visible to humans and leave the rest up to God.
I really don't think Doug's position is confusing at all. No more so than perhaps Martin Luther's was confusing to his peers. I am not saying, by the way, that Wilson is a modern-day Luther, only that reform always challenges and confuses at first.
The only way to answer anyone is to present the gospel. Doug Wilson preaches a gospel that makes provision for the flesh. But God doesn't allow any sinner into his heaven. The cross separates us from our sin and the resurrection makes us alive from the dead. We followed christ into heaven unhindered by our sin nature. Our new natures were filled with Christ. This is the great good news for sinners to rest in while Christ works his perfect life in and through us.
Chandler is a CRT apologist, who apologizes for being white. Piper is an emotionalist, who has naturally swung left openly over the last few years. Driscoll is not qualified to even be a pastor anymore. Not to mention he supposedly has visions of people in his congregation and then exposes them in front of everyone. These three men are complete hacks compared to Doug Wilson. They’ve all shifted in their theology in huge ways. Whereas Doug Wilson has been pretty consistently standing up for Gods word unapologetically his entire life.
Fair but at least Piper I believe is still relatively orthodox and faithful. Like, he can still say stuff that is true and a blessing. Not sure the same can be said of the other two. And I think the fact that Piper stood up for Wilson back then shows something in his heart that’s different than where the other two already were.
personal interpretation would be the right term. You know, somehow it`s the same. I don`t know where to find all the stuff in the bible, I just know it`s in there. So I read and listen to it and the spirit sorts it all out until it becomes clearer and clearer. good he gave us the spirit, isn`t that great. Smart move, scolars in pride don`t get it. Marvellous our God.
Brother Doug has "a lot of stupid people arpund him", like who? You cannot just make statements like that and not elaborate, specifically when you call someone/people stupid, and in the Church..! . Wow, Brother John, accountability can be rough for all of Us, right
"if a person doesn't follow what "god" has revealed to him then he will put under the bus all those who challenge him."" Can you point me where he specifically said that? Like a video, or a written statement of his? Thanks. Also, when responding to me, just type your comment directly to me. If you just tag my name, and write your comment at the top, I won't be receiving it.
Funny to watch Piper mock Doug AND his teachings. This is something Piper is constantly telling Doug not to do. More on Federal Vision here: www.youtube.com/@navigatorsway/about
@foucachon I too was in the PCA, but resigned because of the infusion of Federal Vision teaching. I have studied FV fairly extensively, listening to and reading the positions and commentary from the leading proponents of FV. I grieve because of the error that is being taught. The error extends from sacerdotalism to the doctrine of Union with Christ. There is overlap between NT Wright's most unfortunate new perspective on Paul, but there are significant differences too.
It's hilariious watching Chandler and Driscoll fanboy in the background. Just a few years later, Chandler would take over Acts 29 and fire Driscoll. The policy of "defend other Calvinists at all costs" has reaped so much bad fruit in the Church. Time to eject the counterfeit JC for the real JC.
I understand why you disagree, but look into it. The book of John is very clear on this subject. The Word became flesh, the Bible became paper. The phrase "the Word of God" is used many times in the Bible and not once is it EVER referring to the Bible. The Bible wasn't compiled yet, some of it wasn't even close to being written yet.
@foucachon Rich Lusk was a member of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Austin Texas when I lived there and attended that church. Peter Leithart was a teaching elder in Robert Raburn's church in Tacoma, and I have attended there although I don't recall meeting Mr. Leithart. This is a poor forum for discussing this because of the limited number of characters allowed for a note, and there are a lot of issues which should be addressed. Many of them have been addressed elsewhere.
Yeah, I'll have to say I agree with you there. But I think calling their ideas and interpretations (which is what I think Piper implicitly meant) dumb is a fair statement, I think his motives in saying this was not that these people are dumb but that their ideas are.
Jesus said call no man a fool or you are in danger to go to hell. They all need the holey spirit to understand the bible. Guess they all read other books relating to the bible to get an opinion. The bible states it is not for personal opinion. Ask Jesus to reveal the book and you will understand what it means. They all give in to doctrines of man, not to say of demons and devils. The pride of live aspect, I wanna be right to earn my way in. I wanna be somebody in the eyes of the Lord. Humble?
@regelemihai yup, look up Mark Driscoll and Vision Casting. He has been known to say and do unbiblical things, stuff like if a person doesn't follow what "god" has revealed to him then he will put under the bus all those who challenge him. I already don't trust the man since he is a Charasmatic continuest.
John Piper is completely wrong to measure the worth of N T Wright's work against the standard of "Reformed Theology"; his work should be measured against the Bible, and the New Testament in particular. There are, unfortunately, many Protestants who have made the Reformers more or less as Canonical as Scripture! Its not; Calvin and Luther got lots of things wrong.
I think he only does that because NT Wright claims that he holds to classic reformed theology along with the likes of Piper et al. So Piper's response is to say 'Hang on a minute, I really don't think you can be claiming to be part of this camp when you believe this, this and this...'. And when's all said and done, Piper would equate Biblical Christianity with what the reformers taught anyhow, seeing as the reformers were shining lights of Biblical exegesis amidst a time when the doctrines of man held sway within the church. But for sure, it's always an inherent a danger to become followers of Paul, or Apollos, or Calvin when we ought to respect them as great teachers, but fallible all the same. I think that's why many Calvinists or Arminians don't particularly like to label themselves as such.
bayreuth79 Reformed theology is in a box that it hinders them to see things clearly, unless they really try. they won't understand in the line of Calvin's theology.
bayreuth79 sorry, some mistakes were there, I meant they can get out of their box if they try to understand other's view without their presupposition in Pauline epistles with their Calvinism. meant to say i am on your side.
Oh Johnathan....haters will hate...this was intended to be about Doug Wilson...then rip on NT Wright...then you rip on Doug Wilson's people...yup...John..you sir are being nominated to win hater of the year.
Piper, I love your preaching and you are a real bother in Christ. But you need to realize that Federal Vision is heresy, not reformed Presbyterian theology.
@foucachon (Cont.) Baptismal regeneration is not Biblical. The benefits of salvation are attributed SOLELY to the elect members of the invisible church, not to the non-elect members of the visible church. This is only one of the areas in which FV is confused and in error.
It's slightly more complicated then that in that we view baptism rightly understood as a sacramental union between regeneration and the ordinance. But insofar as baptists only recognize baptism as the ordinance of water baptism, yes, getting wet in a ceremony doesn't save. But insofar as baptism is more than just the water ceremony and is the regenerative work of God in the person, not tied to the moment in time that the ceremony takes place, yes baptism saves. Here I think it is more a matter of what exactly baptism is defined as. I think WCF 27.2 is helpful to keep in mind for the Presbyterian nuance.
To be Honest i find everything that Doug Wilson preaches is a load of shit. He speaks like an obviously intelligent man,but his views are narrow minded,,judgmental and incomprehensible..The average Christian has no hope of deciphering his meaning..He talks in riddles on every subject.. But then the bible is full of riddles...
MrOphachew The only direction signs i see in the bible are "Wrong way..Go back" and "Road closed". As far as Doug Wilson the only sign for him is :"Steep Descent"
I tried to send you a link to you personally. But can't. Check out Chris Rosebrough "Fighting for the Faith" Podcast in itunes. The title is "Mark Driscoll wants a mountain of bodies..." Listen to it. Its actually Mark Driscoll audio. you can hear it from the man himself. Dont worry its free to download or stream..
Why does John Piper think he is the standard for who is preaching "a quaote another gospel"? John Piper and Mark Driscoll should join the WWF they like to fight others and they are actors that like to keep a lot of drama going.
Doug Wilson has "people around him who are dumb"? This is why I could never be an Evangelical (especially of the American variety). I'm afraid I do not see very much charity when it comes to people who disagree with them theological (inside or outside of their own theological circles). There is an obsession with doctrinal conformity, but with no central authority, anarchy reigns. Thousands of Protestant denominations is proof of that!
thank god for his saving grace and mercy on all of us. cuz calling ppl dumb and other things is questionable i don't listen to any of them anyways--- not necessary read the bible yourself bible says we are all ministers what if you were marooned on a deserted island with no church, piper, wilson, or haggee--- im sure you'll be just fine ppl. jesus is all you need in the end instead of some name calling, opinionated, persona
Listen carefully to what John Piper says here! It is clear that for him the "Gospel" is identified very clearly with "historic Reformed theology". In fact, this seems to be his criteria for determining between "Gospel" and "false gospel". I wonder if Evangelical Christians are aware that there is one thousand five hundred years of serious Christian thought before the Reformers? How can we be sure that the "Reformers" got it right? The Bible is all about interpretation.
Eh, a couple of things. I don't think Piper is Reformed, not even Reformed baptist. He doesn't hold to any historic Reformed confessions, like the London Baptist confession. I think he is just more soteriologically a Calvinist, but doesn't hold to other Reformed distinctives like covenant theology. As such, he definitely doesn't hold to historic Reformed theology. And the Reformers never claimed to be inventing a new theology, they were constantly pointing to scripture and church history to show that their views were nothing new and that indeed it is Rome that had drifted away from orthodoxy over the years. People often accuse Calvin of over relying on men like Augustine, and historic statements like the Canon of Orange seem to be quite clear early declarations of what we call 'Calvinism' today. Mind, whether they were right in this claim is a matter to be debated, but we need to evaluate what they were claiming to do, and not blindly believe Roman propaganda. I think perhaps baptists have a harder time with church history, but Reformed Christian's aren't all completely ignorant of it.
i love pipers heart, praying for him and his son.
Wilson is an excellent Pastor: Objective about the Truth and not Politicaly Correct at all. He's MacArthur without the filter and MacArthur barely has a filter. LOL. All three great Pastors. 👌
well said haha
Agreed
Well, these three didn’t age well. People can hate on Wilson all they want, but at least he’s been consistent throughout his entire ministry.
Wilson has stayed the same and all three of these guys have gone off the rails.
Piper not so much but the other two yes.
By the grace of God.
@@thelastoferrathen613 amem
True!
In what sense? I would argue all of them have grown which is a good thing (this includes growth through their setbacks) right?
having just listened to a sermon by Doug Wilson where he spoke of envy as 20/20 blindness.. Piper right here critiques Wilson and some of the people around him oblivious to the fact of who's sitting right to his left
And now who’s sitting to his right as well! Wilson’s one of the most consistent guys left...
@@bens2801 can you guys explain?
@@moriartythethird5709 Matt Chandler is really into Critical Race Theory and Mark Driscol's church broke apart due to factional infighting.
What about the trajectory of Mark Driscoll?
Got em
He says Doug has people around him that is dumb while he sitting with Matt chandler and mark Driscoll
I get it!!! John Piper is Larry David's uptight brother.
This is what you call irony
I don't quite understand why people get so up in arms about Doug Wilson. Perhaps at times they are not hearing what he is actually saying but although I don't always agree with him 100% (and sometimes I am just undecided) but for the most part he seems to be of an orthodox reformed persuasion. For example his position on covenant baptism seems to align with Westminster not Rome.
_"I don't quite understand why people get so up in arms about Doug Wilson."_
He doesn't apologize to the culture for believing in Christ.
Wow, current Chandler should sit down and get some instruction from Doug Wilson.
"...although I am concerned about the trajectory."
Fast-forward to 2022.
Trajectory indeed. The irony is remarkable.
Back when John Piper had more of a spine!
It's so ironic that he says this in between two guys that have gone apostate, or least completely compromised theologically.
There's a fine line between guarding your doctrine closely and finding unnecessary reasons to divide the body of Christ. I think we're skewing that line both in this thread and even in the panel discussion. Our theological discussions can't take on an arrogant or bitter tone! Are we engaging those who think differently with humility and love in an effort to arrive at a clearer understanding of truth or are we just trying to be the thought police for all of Christianity?
The irony is that 13 years later, Doug Wilson has shown himself to be more faithful than all three men on that stage.
how so?
@@apracity7672 Mark Driscoll was fired from his church for being abusive. Matt Chandler bent the knee to the woke culture. John Piper has done the same at times, but to nowhere near the extent.
Remember, Not by works lest any man should boast.
we need to remember also
Matthew 7:15-20
James 3:13
@@colina4699 update. Chandler is out as pastor.
how prophetic this video is...faithful...I think we all know who has proven himself faithful. Also, it dawns on me now that Chandler built his whole persona and mannerisms off of Piper...he just took Piper's wokism to a new level.
except neither are "woke" since the "woke" are really those who are really asleep and deluded, the opposite of Piper & Chandler who are vastly greater and more godly than their clueless critics.
@@russedav5 satire or serious?
Chandler has fallen big time
“Surrounded by people who are dumb,” as the dumb ones fist bump
I have a high regard for Dr. Piper as a theologian and God's servant but after this comments he said of Doug Wilson and the Presbyterians, I have lost some of that high regard I had for him. He says that Doug Wilson is "confused" but Dr. Piper is the one who is confused! Compared to Rick Warren (which Dr. Piper loves so much), I would take Doug Wilson anytime. I have used Matt Chandler's materials for our Bible study group, and I have found out what a confusing Bible teacher Matt Chandler is. I will never use his materials again; the whole bible study group did not like him. And lately, what about Matt Driscoll? He fall from the pedestal of Mars Hill. What Dr. Piper say about Matt Driscoll's fiasco? Nothing. So, Dr. Piper should not condemn the Presbyterians. They are not weird people. There are also genuine Christians among Presbyterians. As a Christian, I still love Dr. Piper inspite of his comments.
harpels What's wrong with Chandler?
harpels agree, I don't understand when Piper says he has got the people around him that are dumb, i mean, wow how in the world Christian say that to his brothers? Let us be clear that not to use strong words against your own brothers and sisters. come on! heretic? when you say heretic, they are the one who wants to divide the church with some weird doctrines! is Doug Wilson like that? I don't think so. pls guys wake up! don't judge people like you know everything and you are the God of Judgment!
+Ben Booth I really doubt Matt Chandler understands what the heck John is talking about. Matt is a preacher, not an exegete or Theologian, you know, like 99.99% of the preachers out there.
blessings in Christ,
Is John Piper worth a high regard? He is merely an antonimonion who is deceiving people with his false teachings of Christian 'hedonism' John Piper uses grandiose words and movements that tricks people and uses the sensual worlds music system to do this as well alongside the partnerships with Federal Vision, IHOP, Bethel, Hillsong, Beth Moore, CS Lewis, contemplative prayer mysticism, etc that John Piper loves and endorces.
th-cam.com/video/snGefwQNvR8/w-d-xo.html
link is ES Williams an elder at Spurgeons Tabernacle making the case that John Piper is an antoniminion and to be avoided as piper perverts the grace of Jesus Christ.
Appreciate the video! My mom balled her eyes out at the end, and this was her first time ever watching anything Lotr hobbit. So she loved it, the dwarves especially. We’re watching Lotr now and she’s loving it even more.. but always has a special place for the dwarves ❤️
I continue to be amazed at the number of atheists who comment on Christian TH-cam videos. It's not that I'm sorry that they're around, or that they anger me, or that I take offense because they belittle the cross, and cause, of Christ. I just don't get it, that's all. If I were an atheist, a true, bonafide, died in the wool atheist, I can't think of anything I'd rather do LESS than surf TH-cam clips of Christian content and comment on them. Weird.
@b22505 As a proponent of the FV, I disagree pretty much completely with "The New Perspective on Paul."
One thing about the FV is that it is a common "vision" for certain things. For example, I've never even read a book by Rich Lusk (but I "hear things"). Doug Wilson (and to a lesser extent Peter Leithart) are the one's I have heard/read. Would you say these men, particularly Doug Wilson, the writer of the Joint FV statement, are in error? If so, in what way?
Clearly John Piper doesn't understand Federal Vision or he wouldn't be saying what he just said. But again he hangs out with Mark " Vision caster" Driscoll.
all of these people are insane
Where can I download the entire video?
Wow! I’ve never heard John Piper call anyone dumb. That cracked me upppp.
The Auburn Avenue Presbyterian Church (AAPC) was found to be promoting Federal Vision. It was about to be kicked out of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) when it resigned and joined Doug Wilson's following.
Douglas Wilson, Steve Schlissel, John Barach, and J. Steven Wilkins, the pastor of AAPC, do not teach justification by faith ALONE, nor do they teach that justification is an event; they hold that it is a process.
I am very disturbed by Piper's simplistic analysis of their position.
9 years later... crec stands in the gap as pca slides into the abyss, right behind the sbc
"He has people around him that are dumb"
Yes, others in the Federal Vision discourse are dumb.
In this video, Piper is also surrounded by dumb people
I can't get over the fact that Matt Chandler and Mark Driscoll fist bump behind John's back and he doesn't seem to notice.
Someone asked if Doug Wilson preach another gospel.... on Mark Driscoll's church .
@b22505 This is a wrong understanding of the FV. They do certainly teach justification by faith alone. I grew up in the PCA, am the son of a PCA minister, and have now sat under Pastor Wilson's teaching for 5 years. I understand the doctrines of grace, and that is precisely what Doug Wilson teaches. There has been MUCH slander spread on blogs, which the PCA unfortunately listened to a little bit. When it comes to trials, every FV minister has been acquitted, most recently, Peter Leithart.
The look on Matt Chandlers face when Piper immediately responds. He was lost 10 years ago. Geez.
What do you mean?
The true gospel is not complicated or confusing
Thanks God for John Piper.
Why are you yelling John Piper.?
Because there's a evangelical debate over people like Doug Wilson and nt Wright where some are even saying that NT Wright is going to hell for preaching a different gospel, hence the question of lumping Doug with nt. This discussion got pretty heated and has cause a goood amount of animosity between christians.
So John Piper understood, I believe, the cultural sensitivity to the issue, and as well the grave accusation the question is asking, which essentially is asking if Doug is a heretic.
He really missed his calling to replace Billy Mays!
Because he is John Piper, that is what he does
@foucachon (Cont.) One issue is the confusion about the benefits of the covenant of grace. FV says that anyone baptized into the visible church receives all the saving benefits of the covenant of grace, forgiveness of sins, the imputation of Christ’s righteousness, effectual calling, regeneration, faith, justification, adoption, sanctification, including an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of Heaven even if they are not elect. I consider this to be baptismal regeneration.
Since being born again I have steered clear of Piper and did the same with Keller.
@54Johnno What in particular about their view of justification?
can someone tell me what conference this is?
Atheist Description: Code word for displaying hatred for Jesus and his salvation, but claiming they don’t believe in any god, but primarily picking upon Jesus. Claiming to be wise, but willfully ignorant. Fearful, trapped in sin, rebellious and angry because they are not satisfied with God. Generally blames Followers of Jesus for their hatred.
Of course Doug Wilson does not preach another gospel on the other hand John Piper is still asking God to give him the gift of speaking in tongues!
Received your pm. Thank you for the kind words. I will definitely look into it. In the end, the truth trumps any inclination, and biases we have. If it exposes him, I will change my opinion about him.
Take care, and God bless.
2021 and the wheat and the tares have been separated
NT Wright ABSOULTELY preaches a false gospel. He denies penal substitution which is the heart of the gospel. He says the idea of the Father punishing the Son is pagan. Thats the definition of heresy and a false gospel. If you cant call that a false gospel the word has no meaning.
John Piper, this was your prayer for Donald Trump on Jan 20, 2017: "Until that day Lord, in your wonderful providence, “The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will” (Proverbs 21:1). So, guard him from folly. Guard him from stupid decisions that would damage people, damage America, damage the church. Guard him. Superintend him and the congress in such a way that, beyond their explanation, things turn in a direction that makes for the kind of good that, even though it may not have faith in it, would have the form of faith in justice and love." Thank you, John, for praying this for Donald Trump. The Lord Jesus answered your prayer, and brought us 4 years of brilliant leadership (not perfect, mind you) that the church is still reaping the benefits of (does Jun 25th ring a bell?). Tell me, John: have you ever thanked God for answering your prayer?
Awww Dr.Piper is so adorable :)
Piper says that the problem with N.T. Wright's gospel is that it is too confusing, but then he admits that Doug Wilson can't clearly distinguish unregenerate and regenerate, saved and unsaved, salvation or going to hell. Now I'M confused!
That seemed to be confusion on Piper's part.
Baptists equate those in the covenant with those God saves, but Reformed Christian's see those in the covenant as those professing faith in the visible church. So we baptize our household, including our babies, because we don't leave them at home on Sunday. We bring them to church where they sing and pray and hear a sermon and read the Word, and so are visibly part of the covenant community. Baptists tend to put themselves in a situation where they have to judge what is only visible to God, whereas Presbyterians evaluate what is visible to humans and leave the rest up to God.
I really don't think Doug's position is confusing at all. No more so than perhaps Martin Luther's was confusing to his peers. I am not saying, by the way, that Wilson is a modern-day Luther, only that reform always challenges and confuses at first.
John Piper still seeking God to speak in tongues. His stock just went down immensely
Why?
The only way to answer anyone is to present the gospel. Doug Wilson preaches a gospel that makes provision for the flesh. But God doesn't allow any sinner into his heaven. The cross separates us from our sin and the resurrection makes us alive from the dead. We followed christ into heaven unhindered by our sin nature. Our new natures were filled with Christ. This is the great good news for sinners to rest in while Christ works his perfect life in and through us.
Chandler is a CRT apologist, who apologizes for being white.
Piper is an emotionalist, who has naturally swung left openly over the last few years.
Driscoll is not qualified to even be a pastor anymore. Not to mention he supposedly has visions of people in his congregation and then exposes them in front of everyone.
These three men are complete hacks compared to Doug Wilson. They’ve all shifted in their theology in huge ways. Whereas Doug Wilson has been pretty consistently standing up for Gods word unapologetically his entire life.
Fair but at least Piper I believe is still relatively orthodox and faithful. Like, he can still say stuff that is true and a blessing. Not sure the same can be said of the other two. And I think the fact that Piper stood up for Wilson back then shows something in his heart that’s different than where the other two already were.
@@ReformedSooner24 it’s only a matter of time before Piper has his own Alistair Begg moment.
personal interpretation would be the right term.
You know, somehow it`s the same.
I don`t know where to find all the stuff in the bible, I just know it`s in there.
So I read and listen to it and the spirit sorts it all out until it becomes clearer and clearer. good he gave us the spirit, isn`t that great.
Smart move, scolars in pride don`t get it.
Marvellous our God.
WHY IS HE SHOUTING?
Still in preaching mode, I guess :)
He always shouts; even when he whispers
Hes talking in front of a crowd
Brother Doug has "a lot of stupid people arpund him", like who? You cannot just make statements like that and not elaborate, specifically when you call someone/people stupid, and in the Church..! . Wow, Brother John, accountability can be rough for all of Us, right
Belief is real. That's what is being attacked. Zing.
Piper standing up for Wilson is pretty heartwarming tbh.
@ConnectionABQ I think they were kind of making a joke about that.
"if a person doesn't follow what "god" has revealed to him then he will put under the bus all those who challenge him.""
Can you point me where he specifically said that? Like a video, or a written statement of his? Thanks.
Also, when responding to me, just type your comment directly to me. If you just tag my name, and write your comment at the top, I won't be receiving it.
Haha. Does anyone else think this video is hilarious? Love these three guys together.
Totally agree, I'd love to see it more often.
Funny to watch Piper mock Doug AND his teachings. This is something Piper is constantly telling Doug not to do. More on Federal Vision here: www.youtube.com/@navigatorsway/about
@foucachon I too was in the PCA, but resigned because of the infusion of Federal Vision teaching. I have studied FV fairly extensively, listening to and reading the positions and commentary from the leading proponents of FV. I grieve because of the error that is being taught. The error extends from sacerdotalism to the doctrine of Union with Christ.
There is overlap between NT Wright's most unfortunate new perspective on Paul, but there are significant differences too.
Fist pump. What goofballs.
It's hilariious watching Chandler and Driscoll fanboy in the background. Just a few years later, Chandler would take over Acts 29 and fire Driscoll. The policy of "defend other Calvinists at all costs" has reaped so much bad fruit in the Church. Time to eject the counterfeit JC for the real JC.
I understand why you disagree, but look into it. The book of John is very clear on this subject. The Word became flesh, the Bible became paper. The phrase "the Word of God" is used many times in the Bible and not once is it EVER referring to the Bible. The Bible wasn't compiled yet, some of it wasn't even close to being written yet.
@foucachon Rich Lusk was a member of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Austin Texas when I lived there and attended that church. Peter Leithart was a teaching elder in Robert Raburn's church in Tacoma, and I have attended there although I don't recall meeting Mr. Leithart.
This is a poor forum for discussing this because of the limited number of characters allowed for a note, and there are a lot of issues which should be addressed. Many of them have been addressed elsewhere.
great preaching on job and his friends ;)
@cheesypasta The Resurgence Text and Context back a few years ago... brilliant stuff... you need to get the whole message...
true, hope it has been some help. God bless
Yeah, I'll have to say I agree with you there. But I think calling their ideas and interpretations (which is what I think Piper implicitly meant) dumb is a fair statement, I think his motives in saying this was not that these people are dumb but that their ideas are.
Jesus said call no man a fool or you are in danger to go to hell.
They all need the holey spirit to understand the bible.
Guess they all read other books relating to the bible to get an opinion.
The bible states it is not for personal opinion.
Ask Jesus to reveal the book and you will understand what it means.
They all give in to doctrines of man, not to say of demons and devils.
The pride of live aspect, I wanna be right to earn my way in.
I wanna be somebody in the eyes of the Lord. Humble?
Couldn`t have said it any different. Please read comment above bro.
@regelemihai yup, look up Mark Driscoll and Vision Casting. He has been known to say and do unbiblical things, stuff like if a person doesn't follow what "god" has revealed to him then he will put under the bus all those who challenge him. I already don't trust the man since he is a Charasmatic continuest.
Whatever Mark does does not link to a case for cassasationism. The Word alone is the final authority on such matters.
This doesn't have anything to do with Weeds or Kevin Nealon.
"Vision caster?"
And they all fall down.
John Piper is completely wrong to measure the worth of N T Wright's work against the standard of "Reformed Theology"; his work should be measured against the Bible, and the New Testament in particular. There are, unfortunately, many Protestants who have made the Reformers more or less as Canonical as Scripture! Its not; Calvin and Luther got lots of things wrong.
I think he only does that because NT Wright claims that he holds to classic reformed theology along with the likes of Piper et al. So Piper's response is to say 'Hang on a minute, I really don't think you can be claiming to be part of this camp when you believe this, this and this...'. And when's all said and done, Piper would equate Biblical Christianity with what the reformers taught anyhow, seeing as the reformers were shining lights of Biblical exegesis amidst a time when the doctrines of man held sway within the church.
But for sure, it's always an inherent a danger to become followers of Paul, or Apollos, or Calvin when we ought to respect them as great teachers, but fallible all the same. I think that's why many Calvinists or Arminians don't particularly like to label themselves as such.
bayreuth79 Reformed theology is in a box that it hinders them to see things clearly, unless they really try. they won't understand in the line of Calvin's theology.
Explain? I'm not sure I am following the grammar of your statement
bayreuth79 sorry, some mistakes were there, I meant they can get out of their box if they try to understand other's view without their presupposition in Pauline epistles with their Calvinism. meant to say i am on your side.
GeonBeen Park there is a good video on youtube if you type John piper vs NT Wright it will appear. It's done by Dr. Leighton Flowers.
Oh Johnathan....haters will hate...this was intended to be about Doug Wilson...then rip on NT Wright...then you rip on Doug Wilson's people...yup...John..you sir are being nominated to win hater of the year.
Doug is biblically qualified but Piper isn't
2020. Doug Wilson is 7-0! Up💉😷😷💉🤮🙏🙏. The rest didn’t finish the race
Attacking Doug Wilson's 'people around him' is a cowardly, backhanded, way of attacking him.. He has more truth ( by the grace of God) than t
Piper, I love your preaching and you are a real bother in Christ. But you need to realize that Federal Vision is heresy, not reformed Presbyterian theology.
@foucachon (Cont.) Baptismal regeneration is not Biblical. The benefits of salvation are attributed SOLELY to the elect members of the invisible church, not to the non-elect members of the visible church. This is only one of the areas in which FV is confused and in error.
I'm confused... Cuz Doug Wilson doesn't believe in baptismal regeneration. He condemns Rome and the Church of Christ for believing that.
I'm more concerned about Piper's trajectory. btw presbitarians do not believe baptism=salvation, so that is a straight up lie right there.
It's slightly more complicated then that in that we view baptism rightly understood as a sacramental union between regeneration and the ordinance.
But insofar as baptists only recognize baptism as the ordinance of water baptism, yes, getting wet in a ceremony doesn't save. But insofar as baptism is more than just the water ceremony and is the regenerative work of God in the person, not tied to the moment in time that the ceremony takes place, yes baptism saves.
Here I think it is more a matter of what exactly baptism is defined as. I think WCF 27.2 is helpful to keep in mind for the Presbyterian nuance.
familiar spirits. divination
Doug Wilson is a Paulists
To be Honest i find everything that Doug Wilson preaches is a load of shit. He speaks like an obviously intelligent man,but his views are narrow minded,,judgmental and incomprehensible..The average Christian has no hope of deciphering his meaning..He talks in riddles on every subject.. But then the bible is full of riddles...
No riddles in the Bible. Only direction signs.
MrOphachew The only direction signs i see in the bible are "Wrong way..Go back" and "Road closed". As far as Doug Wilson the only sign for him is :"Steep Descent"
What is that?
Look it up.
It's called Christianity.
Wake up.
I tried to send you a link to you personally. But can't. Check out Chris Rosebrough "Fighting for the Faith" Podcast in itunes. The title is "Mark Driscoll wants a mountain of bodies..." Listen to it. Its actually Mark Driscoll audio. you can hear it from the man himself. Dont worry its free to download or stream..
..in his little finger than these..
Piper is disqualified from leadership due to his kid rejecting the Faith. And he keeps really bad company with Driscoll.
Fool doesn't translate to idiot or dumb but rather it refers to a person who doesn't obey the law.
Why does John Piper think he is the standard for who is preaching "a quaote another gospel"?
John Piper and Mark Driscoll should join the WWF they like to fight others and they are actors that like to keep a lot of drama going.
Federal vision is new and only distorts the Gospel at its best. Not another gospel, but a diluted one
Doug Wilson has "people around him who are dumb"? This is why I could never be an Evangelical (especially of the American variety). I'm afraid I do not see very much charity when it comes to people who disagree with them theological (inside or outside of their own theological circles). There is an obsession with doctrinal conformity, but with no central authority, anarchy reigns. Thousands of Protestant denominations is proof of that!
thank god for his saving grace and mercy on all of us. cuz calling ppl dumb and other things is questionable
i don't listen to any of them anyways--- not necessary
read the bible yourself
bible says we are all ministers
what if you were marooned on a deserted island with no church, piper, wilson, or haggee--- im sure you'll be just fine ppl.
jesus is all you need in the end
instead of some name calling, opinionated, persona
What about Matthew 12:34? Is that questionable?
he just complimented Doug Wilson why are you guys crying? lol
ah..... Chandler is someone who I don't think is trustworthy on modern racial/social/political issues.
Mark, where is he?
Listen carefully to what John Piper says here! It is clear that for him the "Gospel" is identified very clearly with "historic Reformed theology". In fact, this seems to be his criteria for determining between "Gospel" and "false gospel". I wonder if Evangelical Christians are aware that there is one thousand five hundred years of serious Christian thought before the Reformers? How can we be sure that the "Reformers" got it right? The Bible is all about interpretation.
Eh, a couple of things.
I don't think Piper is Reformed, not even Reformed baptist. He doesn't hold to any historic Reformed confessions, like the London Baptist confession. I think he is just more soteriologically a Calvinist, but doesn't hold to other Reformed distinctives like covenant theology. As such, he definitely doesn't hold to historic Reformed theology.
And the Reformers never claimed to be inventing a new theology, they were constantly pointing to scripture and church history to show that their views were nothing new and that indeed it is Rome that had drifted away from orthodoxy over the years. People often accuse Calvin of over relying on men like Augustine, and historic statements like the Canon of Orange seem to be quite clear early declarations of what we call 'Calvinism' today. Mind, whether they were right in this claim is a matter to be debated, but we need to evaluate what they were claiming to do, and not blindly believe Roman propaganda.
I think perhaps baptists have a harder time with church history, but Reformed Christian's aren't all completely ignorant of it.
Doesn't John Piper think you can lose your salvation...?
Doug Wilson is a mad-man lol
This stuff is starting to turn my stomach
Doug Wilson is evil.