You don't know the base running rules. You only roll when you want to steal. No where does it say you must roll every time there is a runner on base. It's only a one page rule set. Take a look.
You are contradicting yourself but okay. If you are a Slow or a. Very Slow runner? As I explained in my video, VS and S runners can go from first to third under the right conditions. Please don't say they can't. Show the chart like I did it is clear as day. It is only on a double that a VS runner can not score from first base. There are two types of singles an S+ and an S and they are both different. One is easier to advance on than the other.There two types of singles a single in the gap or down the line and a single right at an outfielder. Great job on the video, BTW. Talk to you soon. Every batter is different.
OK, you posted this 4 year ago...but you touched on something that absolutely drives me nuts. If there's a problem with the rules - even if it's just perceived - and the "solution" is that you just make your own rule, then what in the hell are we doing here?
Yes, I do believe the ratings should all be filled in. I speculate from my early observation this a bit more advanced than SOM basic, but not quite to the level as SOM advanced or super advanced. I recently posted in another forum about this game doing the 50/50 anomaly K amd BB correction in version 3 with the "rare ?" play using the modifier die reading. My disappointment is the game goes straight to the string of putout rolls if not a K or BB. However: if not a K, BB, or HBP then it's a ball in play with the possibility of a hit not always a straight out. I'm a bit OCD about the cosmetic logic of a game. The same Inside Pitch the alternative results go off into all kinds of non cosmetically correct result directions. If it isn't a homer and the alternative is a popout or etc. cosmetically just seems off compared to the ball that fails to clear for a homer is a deep flyout. I have a database for baseball retrosheet data for over 20 seasons. So, I take the board game probabilities and and analyze that against the real life data expectations.
ALL games make it yes or no on base running. You are only splitting hairs here. Strat says you go or you don't. APBA basic you can go or you can't. POP say yes you can go or no you can't. IP says you can go or you cannot. They all do it in a different way.
Yes, they all do it in a different way. Most games aren't necessarily designed or required for the base stealer to attempt a steal each time the option is available to get their numbers. I hope this isn't the case with Deep Drive Baseball. The new games coming out on the market have a big advantage to design off a lot more available data compared to what APBA, SOM, Replay Baseball, and etc. had when first developed. However: the new games go a drift in logic cosmetically. If it's not a K, BB, HBP, or HR then it's a ball inplay not an automatic out. Even SOM not being a ball in play design by default is left after you miss the K, BB, HBP, or HR rolls as a BABIP result, geeez!
I cannot explain that singles are not all the same in any other way. Sorry but good luck. You realize you are spending a whole video being negative about good game. We can do that to any game out there. What is the purpose though? How do we win by knit-picking a game most minute detail. Just not worth my time or yours. Now I am regretting asking you to take a second look at this game/ I just wanted you to highlight the things you like not go off and tear it a. new one. A disclaimer at the beginning does't allow for 50 minutes of tearing something to shreds.
to be honest I was as fair as I think I should be and your over reacting because you like this game... I did say several times these were small issues, and did mention many things that were good about this game... I don't really think I spend 50 minutes blasting it... you better watch it again. I was positive in some aspects, but again I did mention the fact that these were minor issues and that the core game could be good.. and that if these things were fixed it could be a 7 or 8 our of 10 ... so your comment I think was a little bit over the top... This is right from the 2 page game rulebook by friend.... If a runner is on 1st and 2nd base is empty, they may attempt to steal. ........... ((it then goes on to explain how to adjust the steal rating....)) Roll the percentile dice and check on the Steal Chart . It will then tell you if the runner steals, is thrown out, or doesn't go.... IF.... like you do and you choose not to roll this outcome then when you DO DECIDE to have the runner try to steal you will have a small chance the runner goes, a small chance the runner gets thrown out, and a super big chance the runner does nothing and does not steal the base... Nowhere does it say to roll ONLY roll when you want the runner to try and steal... Which makes sense that you would roll everytime because if you do decide to have the runner attempt a steal it is such a small chance the runner actually goes... if you wait for that one time to have the runner steal and there is a 60-70-80-90 percent of the time they DON'T GO.. Are you honestly telling me that you decide to have the runner attempt a steal and yet there is a 80-90 percent chance they can't steal is good game design?????? Not for me it's not...
I think you are nit-picking some issues. By the way, I think the stealing system is designed to regulate steals. It might be an auto steal system so that guys like Ron Theobald (0-7 one year I think) will steal. The use of the d20 is such an elementary fix that the base event becomes a non-issue. Not only that, those of us who play baseball sims often make rule modifications and doing so does not bother us. Also, VS runners can advance on the SI + as you mention so it isn't a big deal. The SI + is probably designed to reflect a player's rbi ability.
I’ve never played this game, but… no stat on the card? Sorry, but I’m with the designer on this one. Here in Manhattan, the speed limit is 25 mph IF NOT POSTED. ‘Nuff said; what could be more clear?? NOT having speed limit signs cluttering the landscape ON EVERY BLOCK makes total sense; it’s a smart design decision. In design, often less is more.
yeah... sure I could of just posted a video where I just blast the deep drive system for 5 minutes straight and not give anyone example or reasons why... maybe that is what you expect on the internet man.. where someone just blasts something for no reason for 5 minutes... if so go elsewhere to get your info....
Great in depth details about the game, do you do this for all the sim games, because this would help out alot for us to know before we purchase and to see if we would still enjoy it. I dont want to buy every game just to waste money and find out I dont like it. This helped out alot
I've never played this, but I had similar issues with Dice Baseball. Having to check for errors after any result from a batters card slowed the game down, especially since most players have error rating in the 90's, so a very low chance of errors but more die rolls kind of sucks.
Thanks for the info... I was curious about the game, and may purchase it, as it seems like a good value. I would only wish there were more seasons. I don't have a big problem with the objections raised here. I would get used to blank being average, and the baserunning has two out decisions factored in. I do like the 'home brewed' solution of an extra 20 sided die to decide on steals and other items. The game is not perfect, but again what is. There isn't a game out there that couldn't be improved with some tweak or another, and it seems like a good value, thanks again..
I don’t like 50/50 Pitcher/Batter games. It seems like a gross oversimplification of what goes in. And I’d like to know more about the design mechanism. If you just use the pitcher or batter card do you get stats that are twice as good as real life - and so rely on the 50/50 chance to average them out?
One of the main factors that is missed about 50/50 games. The design is to normalize for sample sizes in each batter to pitcher matchup. A pitcher has 1000 BFP against a batter with 250 PA in the sample size matchup or it can be vice versa a 200 BFP pitcher versus a 250 PA batter. Every game whether based on batter to pitcher first, pitcher to batter first, BABIP type games designed around non balls in play like pitcher K, BB, HBP, and HR, all in some form or fashion are designed trying to get back to a form of 50/50. The math is just to hard to get around a pitcher and batter both come away with the same final result off a given matchup conclusion. I don't mind the BABIP game concept, but those same games if not K, BB, HBP, or HR go off on a tangent of results when in theory if not one of those results it should be based on the chance to get a hit off the ball put in play. LOL, SOM is a 50/50 model, but if you don't roll a K, BB, HBP, or HR the only other alternative results are really BABIP results, as it should be. LOL, the designed BABIP games aren't even fully designed to replicate what the design is trying to accomplish.
When a game is pure 50/50 it's based in the overall on a batter that hit .300 in a .250 league in 500 at bats will get a card that hits .350 overall. He will hit .350 in 250 at bats get the league average off the pitcher cards for .250 in 250 at bats. Batter in real life 150 hits in 500 at bats in the SOM (.350 * 250) + (250 * .250) or 87.5 + 62.5 = 150 hits. Of course, there is some variance, randomness, a few 50/50 outliers, and etc. Keep in mind when all the sample sizes are pro rated for all their cards the overall batter side is .250 and the overall pitcher side is .250. This is in simplified terms there are a few more caveats that go into the game like defense. However: the genius of the defense system is it's condensed to the pitcher cards dependent on their team defense. Plus, it is condensed to the point the rolls to get some form of defense is limited, but accurate counting numbers versus numerous roll after roll settling for a defensive play.
@@johnnysmoke612 I think I must’ve been a bit in a bad mood when I wrote that a long time ago - because I do believe that the statistics work out. But I think some of the other systems provide a more immersive experience.
@john-lenin I don't disagree if the game doesn't require too many dice rolls to get accomplished. Like I said, these new games have some nice ideas, but getting back to being 50/50 they lose some logic cosmetically. I like the concept of the BABIP designs, but they contradict their own design when a ball in play is a automatic out if a failed K, HBP, HR, or HBP. Come on! The other thing is getting less precision with smaller dice possibilities. SOM is in general 216 card chances × 20 splits or 4320 chances. Most if not of all the other games are based on just 2 six siders and a 10, 20, or 100 sided modifier, still short some precision. Plus, using FAC is sampling without replacement condensing randomness to a degree.
6:40 “So let’s get into it.” Finally...wait - false alarm. Try 10:00
Yeah that was painful. He has 3 good points to share but repeats himself too many times.
You don't know the base running rules. You only roll when you want to steal. No where does it say you must roll every time there is a runner on base. It's only a one page rule set. Take a look.
You are contradicting yourself but okay. If you are a Slow or a. Very Slow runner? As I explained in my video, VS and S runners can go from first to third under the right conditions. Please don't say they can't. Show the chart like I did it is clear as day. It is only on a double that a VS runner can not score from first base. There are two types of singles an S+ and an S and they are both different. One is easier to advance on than the other.There two types of singles a single in the gap or down the line and a single right at an outfielder. Great job on the video, BTW. Talk to you soon. Every batter is different.
OK, you posted this 4 year ago...but you touched on something that absolutely drives me nuts. If there's a problem with the rules - even if it's just perceived - and the "solution" is that you just make your own rule, then what in the hell are we doing here?
Yes, I do believe the ratings should all be filled in. I speculate from my early observation this a bit more advanced than SOM basic, but not quite to the level as SOM advanced or super advanced.
I recently posted in another forum about this game doing the 50/50 anomaly K amd BB correction in version 3 with the "rare ?" play using the modifier die reading. My disappointment is the game goes straight to the string of putout rolls if not a K or BB. However: if not a K, BB, or HBP then it's a ball in play with the possibility of a hit not always a straight out. I'm a bit OCD about the cosmetic logic of a game.
The same Inside Pitch the alternative results go off into all kinds of non cosmetically correct result directions. If it isn't a homer and the alternative is a popout or etc. cosmetically just seems off compared to the ball that fails to clear for a homer is a deep flyout.
I have a database for baseball retrosheet data for over 20 seasons. So, I take the board game probabilities and and analyze that against the real life data expectations.
yes thanks..
ALL games make it yes or no on base running. You are only splitting hairs here. Strat says you go or you don't. APBA basic you can go or you can't. POP say yes you can go or no you can't. IP says you can go or you cannot. They all do it in a different way.
Yes, they all do it in a different way. Most games aren't necessarily designed or required for the base stealer to attempt a steal each time the option is available to get their numbers. I hope this isn't the case with Deep Drive Baseball.
The new games coming out on the market have a big advantage to design off a lot more available data compared to what APBA, SOM, Replay Baseball, and etc. had when first developed. However: the new games go a drift in logic cosmetically. If it's not a K, BB, HBP, or HR then it's a ball inplay not an automatic out. Even SOM not being a ball in play design by default is left after you miss the K, BB, HBP, or HR rolls as a BABIP result, geeez!
I cannot explain that singles are not all the same in any other way. Sorry but good luck. You realize you are spending a whole video being negative about good game. We can do that to any game out there. What is the purpose though? How do we win by knit-picking a game most minute detail. Just not worth my time or yours. Now I am regretting asking you to take a second look at this game/ I just wanted you to highlight the things you like not go off and tear it a. new one. A disclaimer at the beginning does't allow for 50 minutes of tearing something to shreds.
to be honest I was as fair as I think I should be and your over reacting because you like this game... I did say several times these were small issues, and did mention many things that were good about this game... I don't really think I spend 50 minutes blasting it... you better watch it again. I was positive in some aspects, but again I did mention the fact that these were minor issues and that the core game could be good.. and that if these things were fixed it could be a 7 or 8 our of 10 ... so your comment I think was a little bit over the top...
This is right from the 2 page game rulebook by friend....
If a runner is on 1st and 2nd base is empty, they may attempt to
steal. ........... ((it then goes on to explain how to adjust the steal rating....))
Roll the percentile dice and check on the Steal Chart .
It will then tell you if the runner steals, is thrown out, or doesn't go....
IF.... like you do and you choose not to roll this outcome then when you DO DECIDE to have the runner try to steal you will have a small chance the runner goes, a small chance the runner gets thrown out, and a super big chance the runner does nothing and does not steal the base...
Nowhere does it say to roll ONLY roll when you want the runner to try and steal...
Which makes sense that you would roll everytime because if you do decide to have the runner attempt a steal it is such a small chance the runner actually goes... if you wait for that one time to have the runner steal and there is a 60-70-80-90 percent of the time they DON'T GO.. Are you honestly telling me that you decide to have the runner attempt a steal and yet there is a 80-90 percent chance they can't steal is good game design?????? Not for me it's not...
Good point
I think you are nit-picking some issues. By the way, I think the stealing system is designed to regulate steals. It might be an auto steal system so that guys like Ron Theobald (0-7 one year I think) will steal. The use of the d20 is such an elementary fix that the base event becomes a non-issue. Not only that, those of us who play baseball sims often make rule modifications and doing so does not bother us.
Also, VS runners can advance on the SI + as you mention so it isn't a big deal. The SI + is probably designed to reflect a player's rbi ability.
yes... but as I said there are better ways to handle this then make players roll dice for NOTHING... that's my problem....
I’ve never played this game, but… no stat on the card? Sorry, but I’m with the designer on this one. Here in Manhattan, the speed limit is 25 mph IF NOT POSTED. ‘Nuff said; what could be more clear?? NOT having speed limit signs cluttering the landscape ON EVERY BLOCK makes total sense; it’s a smart design decision. In design, often less is more.
Unless you are a tourist or don’t live in Manhattan
It looks to me like the SI + results are grater ranges than the SI results.
This video could have been five minutes long. Maybe less.
yeah... sure I could of just posted a video where I just blast the deep drive system for 5 minutes straight and not give anyone example or reasons why... maybe that is what you expect on the internet man.. where someone just blasts something for no reason for 5 minutes... if so go elsewhere to get your info....
I'm not even a baseball fan, but as an aspiring game designer I do think you do a damn good job of talking and critiquing sports game design, id!
thank you very much...
Great in depth details about the game, do you do this for all the sim games, because this would help out alot for us to know before we purchase and to see if we would still enjoy it. I dont want to buy every game just to waste money and find out I dont like it. This helped out alot
I kind of did this when I did my top 16 baseball board games I own... I talk about their strengths and weaknesses... hope this helps..
I've never played this, but I had similar issues with Dice Baseball. Having to check for errors after any result from a batters card slowed the game down, especially since most players have error rating in the 90's, so a very low chance of errors but more die rolls kind of sucks.
Thanks for the info... I was curious about the game, and may purchase it, as it seems like a good value. I would only wish there were more seasons. I don't have a big problem with the objections raised here. I would get used to blank being average, and the baserunning has two out decisions factored in. I do like the 'home brewed' solution of an extra 20 sided die to decide on steals and other items.
The game is not perfect, but again what is. There isn't a game out there that couldn't be improved with some tweak or another, and it seems like a good value, thanks again..
you got it man... not a bad game and a good value if you play it alot..
What your best baseball game
I don’t like 50/50 Pitcher/Batter games. It seems like a gross oversimplification of what goes in. And I’d like to know more about the design mechanism. If you just use the pitcher or batter card do you get stats that are twice as good as real life - and so rely on the 50/50 chance to average them out?
One of the main factors that is missed about 50/50 games. The design is to normalize for sample sizes in each batter to pitcher matchup. A pitcher has 1000 BFP against a batter with 250 PA in the sample size matchup or it can be vice versa a 200 BFP pitcher versus a 250 PA batter. Every game whether based on batter to pitcher first, pitcher to batter first, BABIP type games designed around non balls in play like pitcher K, BB, HBP, and HR, all in some form or fashion are designed trying to get back to a form of 50/50. The math is just to hard to get around a pitcher and batter both come away with the same final result off a given matchup conclusion.
I don't mind the BABIP game concept, but those same games if not K, BB, HBP, or HR go off on a tangent of results when in theory if not one of those results it should be based on the chance to get a hit off the ball put in play. LOL, SOM is a 50/50 model, but if you don't roll a K, BB, HBP, or HR the only other alternative results are really BABIP results, as it should be. LOL, the designed BABIP games aren't even fully designed to replicate what the design is trying to accomplish.
When a game is pure 50/50 it's based in the overall on a batter that hit .300 in a .250 league in 500 at bats will get a card that hits .350 overall. He will hit .350 in 250 at bats get the league average off the pitcher cards for .250 in 250 at bats. Batter in real life 150 hits in 500 at bats in the SOM (.350 * 250) + (250 * .250) or 87.5 + 62.5 = 150 hits. Of course, there is some variance, randomness, a few 50/50 outliers, and etc. Keep in mind when all the sample sizes are pro rated for all their cards the overall batter side is .250 and the overall pitcher side is .250. This is in simplified terms there are a few more caveats that go into the game like defense. However: the genius of the defense system is it's condensed to the pitcher cards dependent on their team defense. Plus, it is condensed to the point the rolls to get some form of defense is limited, but accurate counting numbers versus numerous roll after roll settling for a defensive play.
@@johnnysmoke612 I think I must’ve been a bit in a bad mood when I wrote that a long time ago - because I do believe that the statistics work out. But I think some of the other systems provide a more immersive experience.
@john-lenin I don't disagree if the game doesn't require too many dice rolls to get accomplished. Like I said, these new games have some nice ideas, but getting back to being 50/50 they lose some logic cosmetically. I like the concept of the BABIP designs, but they contradict their own design when a ball in play is a automatic out if a failed K, HBP, HR, or HBP. Come on!
The other thing is getting less precision with smaller dice possibilities. SOM is in general 216 card chances × 20 splits or 4320 chances. Most if not of all the other games are based on just 2 six siders and a 10, 20, or 100 sided modifier, still short some precision. Plus, using FAC is sampling without replacement condensing randomness to a degree.