0:27 it’s not just you brother, i have a habit of hyper fixating on any comic/character/show/universe/manga also😂 and DC METAL made not want to read comic books for while
As a comic reading veteran, the concept of spoilers is meaningless to me. I have no problem reading an event from different characters' points of view and mentally reconstructing the chronological timeline later. The Star Wars franchise's tradition of endless prequels is pretty cool to me.
20 year old spoilers are virtually meaningless, I’ll give you that. But there are plenty of more modern comic examples that I personally would hate to have spoiled for me.
Thank you for making this video and saying something that needs to be said more often, and way louder. Something nobody ever mentions, though, is that DC comics is actually WAY more confusing to read than Marvel comics. Especially if you want to go back and read older stuff. For example, I want to read the Post-Crisis era (1986-2011). There are dozens of series that I'm interested in. However, there are numerous event series along the way during those years, practically one a year. All of those series have crossover issues with those events, the series crossover with each other at various points, and they make reference to happenings in each others' series. So, what is the best way to read them? If you try to read them all at once to keep up with continuity, you first have to painstakingly piece together the reading order like a puzzle using Internet research (likely encountering spoilers along the way), and then you have to keep the details of dozens of series, with hundreds of characters, straight in your head at one time. Not to mention the constant shift in tone and writing/art styles as you bounce from series to series. Or, if you choose to read each series one at a time straight through instead, you will then encounter spoilers for other series, references that won't make sense to you, and you'll end up running into the same events over and over again. There simply is no good way to read older series from DC comics, particularly from the Post-Crisis era.
This is why I'm super selective about the comics I read because I can't for the life of me keep up with so many events and crossovers. I'll usually get the epic collection books because they're mostly easy to follow. It's funny you mentioned the ultimate universe cuz I just started reading the new ultimate Spider-Man run (It's great by the way) 👍
I’ll say this: Run sucks? The next one might be better, and will probably use the same characters and/or repeat/reference the most popular storylines. This way a good character isn’t necessarily wasted on a bad run. Next writer just calls all except the most engrained issues non-canon, and starts over.
As a huge comic fan and collector, I have to agree that superhero comics are confusing, but they also don't have to be. I think in general, comics are good enough at providing enough context within each issue that you don't have to read every single issue of that character or team (the biggest exception has to be the X-Men, in my opinion). I also don't think there's any shame in googling why a character said or did something that relies on a previous storyline-- but again, that's just my perspective.
when I was young, I actually read the death and return of superman. it was a single book and it had the whole story from start to finish. That was mid to late nineties I think. Around that time I also listened to Batman 'Knightfall' audio tape. That seems to have been a self contained story too. It featured Bane and some guy called Azrael who took over as Batman for a while.
Comics are just incredibly complicated. I mentioned it in the video, but the only way to go about it is to pick and choose what you read. There's plenty of great stories you can just jump in on, like Year one and Long Halloween. And I especially like Superman: Up In The Sky, but it's still tough if you're trying to find some "continuity"
Im basically new to western comics coming from manga but i must say the comics from NOT the big 2 are amazing,i look fro stuff from Image comis mostly and those stories are sick🤌🏾 The beginning of Hickmans Krakoa is when i hopped on and now i love the X-Men but really annoyed with the whole back to status-quo thing cause its my first time seeing it and im really questioning why this is the thing
It's one of the main reasons I leaned in more heavily towards Manga in my later teens. I was a big marvel guy, keeping up with most things going on around civil war era as I grew up reading spider-man. But it became so difficult and convoluted to read that the idea of reading one big series of a self contained story by a single author (manga) became so appealing. Even now, when I read western comics I tend to lean towards self contained stories.
The goal of these publishers are to keep their characters perpetually young in their prime so they can keep the comics on the shelf indefinitely. That is the main reason I fell off capes in tights stories, simply they are cyclical without any development in characters. Like you, I'm enjoying Hickman's relaunch of the Ultimate Universe What do you think of the idea that Marvel/Dc adopt a manga style storytelling technique instead of the current cyclical arrested development model? I am looking at you Peter Parker! so for example, writer x will take control of batman for a few years. He tells the story of bruce's life span from beginning to his retirement or ultimate sacrifice. Another writer, y, comes in with a pitch focusing on his early years, his training and taking down crime and corruption in Gotham.A decade or so later, writer z comes in with another take, maybe tweaking his echo-system (think absolute batman/ Marvel Ultimate Universe) and so on. This model would be similar to the movies. You have the Burten , Schumacher, Nolan and Reeves flavors to choose from. I ask this because I am getting sick of the whole "sliding time scale continuity", where you can't really get a meaningful resolution to the story or have actual change to the status quo while also constrained by an inconsequential fictitious continuity that gives the illusion of change and development
I asked my brother to explain to me what is canon Batman and it got complicated. I just wanted to know what the true origin story is as I was watching Penguin, so I could potentially have some insight and maybe excitement for things to come, but he said it had changed many times and there wasn't an official origin. I just don't get how they can do that, how can anyone be expected to keep up? In the end, he told me there was a story called "year One" that was the closest thing to canon. Then I realised the telltale game I played was completely different, so what I thought I knew about Batman, is not really applicable. Well I think I prefer Marvel's way of doing things, but I still find the comics hard to read. There's usually a ton of words and it can be really dry. So I've hardly read any. I've read Dragonball all the way through, and Akira, Naruto, My Hero Academia, Shingeki no Kyoujin, Guyver, Deathnote, etc. but I can't read a single Spiderman comic.
Been dabbling into comics with a lot of batman stuff. Gotta say, Reading Orders have been a life-saver in keeping me on the right track, since I come from manga. It's been fun, My current favourites are Batman: The Long Halloween and Nightwing: Year One.
I’ve kinda given up on following continuity. I used to pride myself on being able to name al the green lanterns of earth, only to realize that they added like three more when I wasn’t looking Seriously though, you’re much better off sticking with creators you enjoy. I think that’s more valuable ultimately
@@Sandwichreviewsforthesoul Same guy; T-Shirt by Morrison was 5-years-prior, pre-JL, and Nanotech by Perez was present day, post-JL. A part of the discrepancy between books was the lack of communication between Morrison and Perez, an underlying problem across the New 52. Intended timeline: Classic JL members origins (T-Shirt Supes and Early Batman, Zero Year and Year One), then Justice League (Prequel volume), then present day (rest of the New 52 until Rebirth)
@@Sandwichreviewsforthesoul Morrison’s run on Action Comics is phenomenal and one of the best Superman runs ever. The rest of New 52 Superman is comparatively cold. New 52 Superman has perhaps the most inconsistent characterization in all of the New 52
New 52 Explaination: 5 years have passed since metahumans started appearing on the planet Justice league is pretty much year 5 or after year 5 Batman's respective run covers after year 5 stuff for batman superman's run starts at year one, when he first starts out as superman, which you can take as the start of meta humans appearing. But it is the same universe. Honestly flashpoint was originally just a fun flash story and then they at the last moment decided to make it a complete hard reboot like crisis on infinite earths. But crisis on infinite earths was done because we had 50 years of continuity and was planned 4 years in advance. and was the year-long event where they published crisis and the last issue of the other titles was released each month as they closed out. Also they stuck to the hard reboot after crisis, everything began at ground zero, sure for batman's respective run he had been batman for 5 years and it continued from there but we also had a "legends of the dark knight" series later that covered/showed the first 5 years. for flash, his entire canon stayed and he died in crisis so that Wally could take over. But it was all still a hard reboot, the origins of characters were re-told and there were changes enough that we could call this a different universe, kinda like James Gunn's DC, we are dropped in a world that has had metahumans for 10 years or so but we know nothing about it. that's why crisis worked! Unlike new 52 that still wanted older things to be canon.
While what you're saying is right I'm mainly subbing because I relate to only using clip of Sunny and Community as those are the two comedic shows I consider true classic.
So DC kinda done the right thing right now with a few all in titles. They take place after the last event that was set up by years of other events and yea have entire background information I have to do TH-cam recaps for BUT these ones also keep the hero simple and it's mainly about their core well known traits that are open to all readers
As I mentioned, I don't doubt the Absolute universe will all connect and become confusing eventually. But you're right, as of now, they're just a handful of really good stories
@Sandwichreviewsforthesoul not absolute. I'm talking about prime main DC. Absolute is a gimmick that won't last a couple months. Superman and Batman is gonna be rebooted anyway
Ive allways liked superheros frim movies sjd stuff and started reading comics recently and ive only rad a few superman comicds and and like 10 isues of yhe questions comics fron yhe 80s hut stoped and i don't really like really long comics i rather shorter ones i read the furst issue ofthe questions 2006 mini series where he can like talk to citys
0:27 it’s not just you brother, i have a habit of hyper fixating on any comic/character/show/universe/manga also😂 and DC METAL made not want to read comic books for while
Always good to know it's not just me 😂 Also should've brought up DC metal because that had a similar effect on me.
As a comic reading veteran, the concept of spoilers is meaningless to me. I have no problem reading an event from different characters' points of view and mentally reconstructing the chronological timeline later. The Star Wars franchise's tradition of endless prequels is pretty cool to me.
20 year old spoilers are virtually meaningless, I’ll give you that. But there are plenty of more modern comic examples that I personally would hate to have spoiled for me.
Thank you for making this video and saying something that needs to be said more often, and way louder. Something nobody ever mentions, though, is that DC comics is actually WAY more confusing to read than Marvel comics. Especially if you want to go back and read older stuff. For example, I want to read the Post-Crisis era (1986-2011). There are dozens of series that I'm interested in. However, there are numerous event series along the way during those years, practically one a year. All of those series have crossover issues with those events, the series crossover with each other at various points, and they make reference to happenings in each others' series. So, what is the best way to read them? If you try to read them all at once to keep up with continuity, you first have to painstakingly piece together the reading order like a puzzle using Internet research (likely encountering spoilers along the way), and then you have to keep the details of dozens of series, with hundreds of characters, straight in your head at one time. Not to mention the constant shift in tone and writing/art styles as you bounce from series to series. Or, if you choose to read each series one at a time straight through instead, you will then encounter spoilers for other series, references that won't make sense to you, and you'll end up running into the same events over and over again. There simply is no good way to read older series from DC comics, particularly from the Post-Crisis era.
This is why I'm super selective about the comics I read because I can't for the life of me keep up with so many events and crossovers.
I'll usually get the epic collection books because they're mostly easy to follow. It's funny you mentioned the ultimate universe cuz I just started reading the new ultimate Spider-Man run (It's great by the way) 👍
Being selective is the best way to follow comics, otherwise you’ll go crazy!
You know it brother 🫡
The lack of continuity *IS* the best part of superhero comics.
How so?
Yeah imma need some explaining on that one
@@Sandwichreviewsforthesoul I *think* what he means is the same thing you said: What matters is a good story.
I’ll say this: Run sucks? The next one might be better, and will probably use the same characters and/or repeat/reference the most popular storylines. This way a good character isn’t necessarily wasted on a bad run. Next writer just calls all except the most engrained issues non-canon, and starts over.
As a huge comic fan and collector, I have to agree that superhero comics are confusing, but they also don't have to be. I think in general, comics are good enough at providing enough context within each issue that you don't have to read every single issue of that character or team (the biggest exception has to be the X-Men, in my opinion). I also don't think there's any shame in googling why a character said or did something that relies on a previous storyline-- but again, that's just my perspective.
Absolutely agree! Most comics have a little origin snippet at the beginning anyway, but knowing every bit of context isn't necessary
@ Great video by the way :)
Thanks!
when I was young, I actually read the death and return of superman. it was a single book and it had the whole story from start to finish. That was mid to late nineties I think. Around that time I also listened to Batman 'Knightfall' audio tape. That seems to have been a self contained story too. It featured Bane and some guy called Azrael who took over as Batman for a while.
Comics are just incredibly complicated. I mentioned it in the video, but the only way to go about it is to pick and choose what you read. There's plenty of great stories you can just jump in on, like Year one and Long Halloween. And I especially like Superman: Up In The Sky, but it's still tough if you're trying to find some "continuity"
Im basically new to western comics coming from manga but i must say the comics from NOT the big 2 are amazing,i look fro stuff from Image comis mostly and those stories are sick🤌🏾
The beginning of Hickmans Krakoa is when i hopped on and now i love the X-Men but really annoyed with the whole back to status-quo thing cause its my first time seeing it and im really questioning why this is the thing
Yes! Image, Darkhorse, even DC black label has some great stuff!
It's one of the main reasons I leaned in more heavily towards Manga in my later teens. I was a big marvel guy, keeping up with most things going on around civil war era as I grew up reading spider-man. But it became so difficult and convoluted to read that the idea of reading one big series of a self contained story by a single author (manga) became so appealing. Even now, when I read western comics I tend to lean towards self contained stories.
Self contained arcs are the single reason why I’m still a comic book fan AND sane
Love ya, great work!
Thank you!
It's so true! I've wanted to get into it for so long but can't pull the trigger cuz I can't figure out where to start
Ultimately, it's just about finding self contained storied with good word of mouth!
The goal of these publishers are to keep their characters perpetually young in their prime so they can keep the comics on the shelf indefinitely. That is the main reason I fell off capes in tights stories, simply they are cyclical without any development in characters. Like you, I'm enjoying Hickman's relaunch of the Ultimate Universe
What do you think of the idea that Marvel/Dc adopt a manga style storytelling technique instead of the current cyclical arrested development model? I am looking at you Peter Parker!
so for example, writer x will take control of batman for a few years. He tells the story of bruce's life span from beginning to his retirement or ultimate sacrifice. Another writer, y, comes in with a pitch focusing on his early years, his training and taking down crime and corruption in Gotham.A decade or so later, writer z comes in with another take, maybe tweaking his echo-system (think absolute batman/ Marvel Ultimate Universe) and so on.
This model would be similar to the movies. You have the Burten , Schumacher, Nolan and Reeves flavors to choose from.
I ask this because I am getting sick of the whole "sliding time scale continuity", where you can't really get a meaningful resolution to the story or have actual change to the status quo while also constrained by an inconsequential fictitious continuity that gives the illusion of change and development
I asked my brother to explain to me what is canon Batman and it got complicated. I just wanted to know what the true origin story is as I was watching Penguin, so I could potentially have some insight and maybe excitement for things to come, but he said it had changed many times and there wasn't an official origin. I just don't get how they can do that, how can anyone be expected to keep up? In the end, he told me there was a story called "year One" that was the closest thing to canon. Then I realised the telltale game I played was completely different, so what I thought I knew about Batman, is not really applicable. Well I think I prefer Marvel's way of doing things, but I still find the comics hard to read. There's usually a ton of words and it can be really dry. So I've hardly read any.
I've read Dragonball all the way through, and Akira, Naruto, My Hero Academia, Shingeki no Kyoujin, Guyver, Deathnote, etc. but I can't read a single Spiderman comic.
Try to read ultimate spider-man(2000)
Honestly you have a much easier time reading comics from other companies like image or dark horse
Been dabbling into comics with a lot of batman stuff. Gotta say, Reading Orders have been a life-saver in keeping me on the right track, since I come from manga. It's been fun, My current favourites are Batman: The Long Halloween and Nightwing: Year One.
I’ve kinda given up on following continuity. I used to pride myself on being able to name al the green lanterns of earth, only to realize that they added like three more when I wasn’t looking
Seriously though, you’re much better off sticking with creators you enjoy. I think that’s more valuable ultimately
New 52 JL started as a prequel comic. Everything else was set in the “present” aka 2011
The rest of the league makes sense to me, but was T-shirt Superman and Nanotech suit Superman two different people or the same?
@@Sandwichreviewsforthesoul Same guy; T-Shirt by Morrison was 5-years-prior, pre-JL, and Nanotech by Perez was present day, post-JL. A part of the discrepancy between books was the lack of communication between Morrison and Perez, an underlying problem across the New 52.
Intended timeline: Classic JL members origins (T-Shirt Supes and Early Batman, Zero Year and Year One), then Justice League (Prequel volume), then present day (rest of the New 52 until Rebirth)
I'd never felt like it because it was too confusing, but this makes me want to go back and read through it all! Thank you for the explanation 🙏
@@Sandwichreviewsforthesoul Morrison’s run on Action Comics is phenomenal and one of the best Superman runs ever. The rest of New 52 Superman is comparatively cold. New 52 Superman has perhaps the most inconsistent characterization in all of the New 52
I might continue on if I feel like it, but I'll definitely add Morrison's run to the top of my list!
Well, your first mistake is trying to read comics like a completionest instead of picking and choosing what you want
He's just talking about following a character. He's not talking about wanting to read everything. Just for the story to make sense
New 52 Explaination:
5 years have passed since metahumans started appearing on the planet
Justice league is pretty much year 5 or after year 5
Batman's respective run covers after year 5 stuff for batman
superman's run starts at year one, when he first starts out as superman, which you can take as the start of meta humans appearing.
But it is the same universe.
Honestly flashpoint was originally just a fun flash story and then they at the last moment decided to make it a complete hard reboot like crisis on infinite earths. But crisis on infinite earths was done because we had 50 years of continuity and was planned 4 years in advance. and was the year-long event where they published crisis and the last issue of the other titles was released each month as they closed out.
Also they stuck to the hard reboot after crisis, everything began at ground zero, sure for batman's respective run he had been batman for 5 years and it continued from there but we also had a "legends of the dark knight" series later that covered/showed the first 5 years. for flash, his entire canon stayed and he died in crisis so that Wally could take over. But it was all still a hard reboot, the origins of characters were re-told and there were changes enough that we could call this a different universe, kinda like James Gunn's DC, we are dropped in a world that has had metahumans for 10 years or so but we know nothing about it. that's why crisis worked! Unlike new 52 that still wanted older things to be canon.
While what you're saying is right I'm mainly subbing because I relate to only using clip of Sunny and Community as those are the two comedic shows I consider true classic.
I’ll never stop using clips from sitcoms I love 🫡
So DC kinda done the right thing right now with a few all in titles. They take place after the last event that was set up by years of other events and yea have entire background information I have to do TH-cam recaps for BUT these ones also keep the hero simple and it's mainly about their core well known traits that are open to all readers
As I mentioned, I don't doubt the Absolute universe will all connect and become confusing eventually. But you're right, as of now, they're just a handful of really good stories
@Sandwichreviewsforthesoul not absolute. I'm talking about prime main DC. Absolute is a gimmick that won't last a couple months. Superman and Batman is gonna be rebooted anyway
They are gimmicks, as is everything in comics, but it’s gonna last longer than just a few months, especially with how great it is
Retcon Doomsday Clock!
They really aren’t if you just remember that everything is fanfic of the thing before, until the next thing makes the old one part of its lore.
That’s true. I also like the idea that it’s just one massive multiverse and it’s all happening on some timeline somewhere
Ive allways liked superheros frim movies sjd stuff and started reading comics recently and ive only rad a few superman comicds and and like 10 isues of yhe questions comics fron yhe 80s hut stoped and i don't really like really long comics i rather shorter ones i read the furst issue ofthe questions 2006 mini series where he can like talk to citys
Hey Sandwich great video. Just wanted to let you know that Grant Morrison prefers to use they/them in case you have to reference them in the future
I don’t know how I forgot that, but I apologize and I’ll make sure to use their correct pronouns in future