@@TheSkyGuy77 Yep. In Undertale, Napstablook doesn't have a talk sprite either. It just means they find it hard to express the character's emotions through it.
We all know the night is actually Martlet from Undertale Yellow, which is Toby's way of making it canon. My uncle works at Toby Fox, that's how I know this.
I've always felt that papyrus being the knight would be creative twisted mirror to his character in UT instead of being motivated by trying to get into the royal guard, he's motivated by his lonliness and lack of friends
That also mirrors Kris, and can tie the whole theme of escapism? But Papyrus? Idk Me personally I always thought we'd get a meta meta chapter With AUs All I know is everytime I think about Deltarune there's a new angle or theory
@@Panet0nsumletterz I haven't seen him be gross towards her in literally any of his videos. like, at most, he underlined the 'romantic' subtext of snowgrave ( the parallels of the ring, the 'date', the dynamic... even though it's obviously very twisted), and maybe the sidechick comment spamton made ? other than that I have no idea
6:00 Toriel does actually show concern for Kris' recent behavior, as shown in two scenes; first, the "Nevermind" option when she's on her chair in chapter 1, which reads "* Kris, perhaps you should go to bed early tonight... * You do not look quite yourself." Secondly, the infamous Ball of Junk scene, in which Toriel asks Alphys if Kris has been up to anything strange; when Alphys says they haven't, she says "* Well, that is relieving. I have just been... * A little concerned lately."
I feel like regarding the library hiding spot thing, I feel like people are really sleeping on the fact there is a whole ass second floor they could have hid in. Not even from Noelle or Berdly necessarily, but waiting out the very loud obvious traffic jam outside
I think the hardest thing to swallow about Knight speculation (and honestly any Deltarune theory) is the fact that our logic can be perfectly logical and fine but suddenly something small like one character interaction/dialogue dismantles the whole theory lol Schrodinger's theory
The whole "does monsters in deltarune bleed" is basically completelly disproven by a single line from a nameless npcs behind a door as an example of that
@@girosvaldodeskate2214 biggest example lmao I remember that line being so contentious because you have people like "But this scrapped animation tho, it's an AU tho"
@@girosvaldodeskate2214 though if that's the case, then why are monsters' souls are treated anywhere near as valuable as human souls? or even monsters even able to open a dark Foutain?
@@chongwillson972 there is little talk about souls in deltarune, the only exception being spantom, however spamton could be looking for any lightneer souls, since he only seens to target kris because he is the only one he meets As for dark fountains, berdly would nearlly ceirtanlly open one, and queen plan was extremelly clear in using noelle to expand the dark fountain in the cyberworld
@@girosvaldodeskate2214 Spamton takes special interest in our soul actually, I don't know how much to prove this other than Spamton asks to see your soul, you're a lightner after all, this means he does know about souls, but when the fight begins Spamton is shocked and says he has never seen a "[heart-shaped object] like that before" aka a soul, it is not that he has NEVER seen a soul, but it's that he has NEVER SEEN a HUMAN soul, which is different than a monster soul, it is his first time seeing a non-monster soul, which also means that just like chapter 1 darkners, there were lightners in that dark world before us, there isn't much explanation on how that even works tho
about toriel being doting in undertale: remember that's due the specific circumstance of trying to make sure the fallen children don't leave her house and get KILLED by Asgore, and we don't really know what she was like as asriel and chara's mum.
She's actually characterized as overly smothering in Deltarune, as she constantly infantilizes Kris. She always holds their hand, makes them dress in striped shirts which are reserved for children in UT, I could go on.
@@demetriam2408 I never made the connection of Kris having a striped shirt being linked with infantilization but that’s a very interesting take. Even monster kid, whose iconic design trait was the striped shirt, lacks it in their older Deltarune design, because as they said, it means you’re a kid. Odds are high Toriel at least has some say in Kris’ wardrobe as she presumably bought their clothes, it’s very possible she has total say and doesn’t allow Kris to outgrow the striped shirt because she can’t accept that Kris isn’t a little kid anymore. As someone who grew up with a mom who refused to let go of a babying infantilizing mentality, I can get how much that sucks to deal with, poor Kris.
So someting to note about KIng (and I'm happy to see someone actually use his name correctly and not jsut call him The King) is that his throne room is COVERED in cuts and slashes, suggesting a battle. It's theorised that he 'respects' the knight because the knight beat him into submission in a battle. We also don't know how uch he respects the knight, as he only has a sinlg eline of dialogue about him and its vague how he feels about the person beyond wanting the knight to summon dark fountains.
Two extra things for papyknight. Sans is the school janitor so visiting the school wouldn't be too weird for him to visit and he could get keys from Sans. Also, maybe King would respect Papyrus because of him resembling a classroom skeleton causing king to see him as a darkner.
If papy is the knight I could see him kind of like Don Quixote maybe the more modern interpretation where he is a dreamer in a age to far from the glorious past but I could also see the older versions where don was a insane old man who doesn't notice how interesting his life is because he is to focused on it fitting his narrative of old chiveolic tales
@@jfb- I thought he said he was hired by the school at some point but if he doesn't work for the school then my mistake. Haven't played since chapter 2's release and misremembered the janitor line.
ok why is nobody talking about how absurdly on point this guy's impressions of the characters are, I'm literally sobbing at his mettaton and susie impressions
I like to believe that knowledge of the Dark Worlds is more spread throughout the Lightners than we know, and that's a fun idea to go along with it! Alphys could well have been a student of Gerson's as well (Does the game ever say that one way or the other?)
Found this video by chance! So I will be addressing the points you have against Knight Papyrus because Of Course I'd do that. XD Gaster connections! Oh boy, just so you know I have been obsessed with Papyrus for 8 years now, and when it comes to Papyrus connections to Gaster there's actually a lot. There's very "oh well that could be a coincidence" stuff like the fact that the beginning of both of their speech never starts with an * like everyone else and both of them speaking exclusively in all caps. There's also the weird detail that has been re-emphasized multiple times now about how Papyrus never takes off his gloves. Some people take this to mean that Gaster became Papyrus somehow but that's not a theory I believe in because IMO it robs Papyrus of agency. Other connections include like. Okay so hear me out. This is going to sound insane. The memoryheads from the true lab look like melted, fused together gaster blasters (but with googly eyes) with a phone cord attached and there's a point (I believe) where they call you and they also quote lorem ipsum at you. Lorem ipsum is corrupted latin text that when translated results in something similar to the poem about Gaster from ch1's files Is that a cut on your face, or part of your eye The gash weaves down as if you cry The pain itself is reason why (this is the corrupted latin roughly translated) And when you defeat the memoryheads you get an item called the bad memory, where if you eat it and have low health you are fully healed, but if you eat it when you have full/high health it takes away exactly one HP (which is curious because when Papyrus kicks you out of the fight it's always with you at 1 hp). I do apologize if I come across like the pepe silvia meme. Connections to the fountain locations! I didn't catch this in my actual video but someone pointed out that both locations the Knight has made fountains so far are associated with Papyrus in UT, because one is puzzle themed and the computer lab could reference how Papyrus also has a computer of his own that he claims to be popular on (despite the apparent negative follower count which some theorize is Another Gaster connection but I won't get into that) and we do get to see him post on it during the game. The infamous image of his face over a flexing buff guy is something he posted to his account during the game. It's possible that before the Knight reveal of Papyrus (in this hypothetical) we will get our hangout with Papyrus, and we will be endeared to him all over again, which will bring in DR exclusive players and also re-emphasize to existing fans why we love Papyrus. There's also the sort of looming possibility that DR is a prequel for UT (especially since it was conceived first) and the people sort of nervously pointing out that the weird things Sans says about how "you'll never see them again" and the newest Papyrus QNA where he reveals that before they lived in snowdin there was green grass, a surface exclusive feature. WHICH! If this is the case will solve the "He's too nice!" problem, though I personally disagree that he's the nicest fluffiest cloud of cotton candy. He is sarcastic, he is deadpan, he will causally roast the player on multiple occasions, he will roast Undyne and Sans just as easily. But I digress. IF the theory that DR is a prequel and the skeletons came from there to UT is true then it would also explain some things they say, about how "Do you think the worst person can change, if they just have the chance?" and how Papyrus is so adamant to see the good in you despite all the bad you've done in the murder route, maybe because he's been in that position, doing catastrophically evil things, and working every day to become better than the person he used to be. At the very least Sans is concerned for him in DR. OKAY SO! For why Papyrus is overshadowed. You mentioned how you saw my video. People were commenting on that video that "POOR INNOCENT WITTLE PAPYRUS MUST BE BEING MANIPULATED INTO BEING BAD" which is like. So annoying. So typical. Trust me, I am a fan of this character, I interact with things regarding Papyrus. Papyrus/reader section on Ao3? 2/3rds are also Sans/reader fics (and I've read a lot of them, and Sans is almost always the focus). AUs in the fandom? Papyrus is fucking DEAD so Sans is BIG SAD :((( and kills people. Or he just doesn't exist at all. Papyrus in the fandom is almost solely used to prop up Sans. You have to seek out people like me who are mentally ill about him to find stories where he's a major focus and he's not dead, not babied, not pushed aside. As a Papyrus fan, I've started to drift away from UT a bit because the fandom so staunchly refuses to respect him. I love this skeleton, he's the best, I made an over 100 point list of facts about him because some guy made a video where he asserted Papyrus "Displays an unwavering confidence in himself despite his utter lack of competence at every level of everything." The very fact people were saying Papyrus can't have done anything bad of his own free will removes agency from himself and overshadows him. People to this day still make jokes about him only knowing spaghetti exists and being SHOCKED about other pastas when that is literally not even canon, he knows all the other pastas. People talk about the Papyrus phone calls but only when it's in service to exploring Sans. People were like "SANS LIKES SCIENCE" which is directly stated in a Papyrus phone call but in this SAME phone call Papyrus acknowledges that HE KNOWS his brother doesn't tell him anything, but people will still write and interact with Papyrus's character like he's completely oblivious to his brother's shadiness. There's also the fact that when people have talked about this theory before it's almost always a passing mention, not ever seriously engaging with the thematic elements that link Papyrus so strongly to the Knight, which in and of itself is Papyrus being overshadowed. You're genuinely, and sincerely, the very first person I've seen discuss knight candidates who legitimately interacted with the points of my theory without dismissing him outright. So thank you for that! I hope I didn't come across aggressive in my response to your points, I'm just very passionate about this theory, because especially when paired with the DR is a prequel/Skelebros are from DR theory it fills in the HUGE hole we have with Papyrus which is that, despite him having all his dialog and all of his scenes, we don't know a single thing about his past.
Don't worry lol, I've gone full murder board many a time on this channel for Deltarune theories. The Memoryheads are so interesting, because they serve no real purpose in Undertale, so it definitely feels like they're hinting to something Gastery/Deltarune related. This is especially true due to Gaster's recent connection with phones thanks to Spamton. Hell, the dial-up noises they make could even be read as them trying to "connect" to you in the same way Gaster says at the beginning of Deltarune. ("Are we connected?") Given they're amalgamates they must be composed of more than just Gaster Blasters, but what? I'd never considered a double reading into the line "do you think even the worst person can change?" because damn that would hit different if Papyrus ended up being a villain here. If there is definitely one route in Undertale where Papyrus is 100% in need of some more weight it'd be that one. Though even in that case I'd argue that Papyrus being extremely beloved is the reason why killing him is such a big deal there. His death is the tipping point even more than Toriel into driving home just how much of a real monster you've become. I guess it just depends on whether you value the fandom or the actual game's usage more. I can see how the fandom has essentially flanderized him (along with Sans, Toriel, and DEFINITELY Chara) but, as someone who is only fandom adjacent and certainly hasn't been in the trenches like you have apparently haha, it's just a hard pill for me to swallow I guess. There's a point from someone that stuck with me (I think it was SpookyDude in their Kris Knight discussion?) about how the game is being made for the average player. There's certainly nudges for people like us who like to delve deeply into every dialogue box, but the story is probably wisely not focused on being for us. I try to take Deltarune as it is for the most part, so that's why I kind of went hard on that point in the video lol😅 The connections to the fountain locations do make a little sense at least, I probably should have come up with those if I thought harder. I definitely buy into chapter 2's connection now that I think it, as that location does have what are essentially Junior Jumbles with Ice-E even being featured. Chapter 1 I'm still not sold on quite yet though haha. There are puzzles, but that's also core to Toby's game design, so I'm not sure I could really count that. If Papyrus had some sort of link to cards or chess I might buy into it. Papyrus seems like the kind of guy to have had a phase where he got really into learning chess strategies. The part about being "too nice" was mostly focused on his morals rather than his innocence, but I think the case for him being a redeemed villain would explain that too. As for the prequel theory, it was immediately what my mind jumped to when I first played chapter 1, but I've softened on it a bit. Mostly because it would probably require everyone to have a total memory reset asides from the skeletons, who I do at least buy a little bit as having traveled dimensions to show up in Undertale. Though it should be noted that they have "shown up and asserted themselves" in Deltarune as well. Sans has apparently landed two jobs in the short time they've been in town after all, one as the only grocer in town. I've seen it speculated that Sans is making a meta joke about the kickstarter when he describes the place they lived before having green grass. It's also possible he's referring to living at the Castle (with Gaster?) which also has a lot of green plants in the throne room, though to be fair they look more like vines, or the Ruins where the monsters used to live in canon, which has the grass growing where Flowey is first encountered. The skeletons being from Deltarune would be a pretty fun twist though. Anyways those are my thoughts, thanks for sharing yours! Your video helped me lay out this one, so major thanks for that too lol. Most Papyrus Knight discussion I'd found online had not been very helpful in actually laying out the case.
@@guiltyflygon Yee, I'm glad my video helped you. It's always fun to look at what other people are saying so you can metaphorically sharpen your tools and devise counterarguments for what is presented. The average player perspective is something I think I might have glossed over a bit, yeah, but, if we do get that hang out with Papyrus then there's at least a setup for the twist of him as the Knight. I can't wait for the next three chapters to drop, since IIRC, it seems like they're getting close to being finished. I'll have to set some money aside to buy them when that happens. Very excited for the game in general, even if Papyrus doesn't turn out to be the knight, I'm sure whatever Toby has planned will be great.
The idea that deltarune is a sort of prequel also comes from a line from clam girl in as she says (referring to "suzy") " *In life's grand scheme, she might be why you came here in the first place..." I personally feel like that undertale and deltarune are in the grand scheme of things simultaneously a prequel and a sequel not exactly causing the other (minus the gastery bits) honestly I don't know how it would pan out maybe we'll get a post-deltarune undertale update that allows you to new-game plus deltarune via meeting "suzy" or something idk
I think that Mad Dummy could be a knight, if you think about it, the essence of ghosts is to merge with inanimate objects and.. control them. Then what will happen to the ghost if he ends up in the dark world? Will it be light or dark? Perhaps that is why the Spade King recognized the knight. Mad Dummy also uses the Knife against us, but only 1 time and not as their main weapon, it looks like a hint or foreshadowing. Just like a ghost, Mad can easily get into any location, they only needs to hide a knife there in advance. There is even a reason why Mad is the knight, in their world there is no magic and therefore ghosts cannot merge with inanimate objects in the usual way (but perhaps in the dark world, they can merge with the dark ones and control them like puppets, just like us) And I had a feeling that this smile on TV belonged to someone important, maybe... The third fountain was created not by Kris but by Mad the ghost (most likely their name is something else, but we don’t know their real name yet), because Kris doesn’t even have the soul to create the fountain! And this moment was not explained. If they were actually being controlled by someone else, say a ghost who found a way to inhabit people's bodies while they slept. Then this would be a much tougher opponent, because this is a ghost who, albeit temporarily, can control others while they are unconscious. And in the dark world, he generally seems invincible. (If anything, in this crack theory I assume that the Ghosts can possess people or monsters while they are unconscious, but only while they are unconscious. It cannot inhabit inanimate objects due to the lack of magic, but the ghost’s own “body” still consists of magic (otherwise elementals and ghosts would have no meaning in this world, because they are here and this is a fact). Well, or simply Mad cannot find the “ideal” body in this world and resorted to the help of otherworldly forces. Not knowing what kind of destruction this will lead them to)
my opinion on the papyrus knight "he had his time to shine" thing, is that out of the main 6 characters, toriel, asgore, undyne, and alphys have major character arcs, papyrus has a mini one, about not needing to capture a human to be popular or smth along those lines, and sans has nothing outside of genocide. theyre jokey characters, they have their moments, but mostly faff about the whole time. what seperates the two however, is that papyrus has hints of something. undyne never has the talk with him on why he never can join the guard, and that whole thing is entirely untouched, papyrus's story doesnt seem finished in the game of undertale. plus papyrus is definitely tobys favorite so whos to say he wont make his favorite character a major player in 2 games?
I am 1000% confident that no Undertale character will be the knight. It just wouldn't make sense story wise to make a game with a bunch of new characters just to have one of the old ones from the "prequel" hug the spotlight
Kris is trying to find Dess, Rudy is trying to find Dess, the mayor is trying to find Dess, Noelle is trying to find Dess, Asgore is trying to find Dess- the Knight is the friends we made along the way
After Sans asks you to take care of Papyrus, he then goes on to say something like "Thanks for hanging out with him" if you say yes. This is odd, considering you literally never hung out with Papyrus yet... unless... This would be a funny overlooked dialogue if Papyrus were the Knight because chapter one's dark world is filled with board game characters. Entering the dark world would be like participating in the knight's game... maybe Papyrus's game. I dunno, it was just a funny thought-- even though people dislike the possibility that Papyrus is the knight.
I’d like to add a bit to Asgore Knight here, as while I don’t think he is the Knight, I do think he’s the most likely UT character candidate, aside from maybe Chara. To begin, Asgore is compared to the Beast from beauty and the beast twice, as story that happens to heavily involve living objects He also somewhat resembles the center Titan, with pauldrons horns, and what could be a cloak and crown He’s also connected to determination with it being the name of one of his themes Finally, he has an unused special attack where he would raise his trident above his head and slam it into the ground creating shock waves while roaring. With the word “roar” specifically being used. This has similarities to the process of creating a fountain
@@guiltyflygon My guess would be his eviction date given the time limit, which would make the Mayor the enchantress equivalent, and Asgore’s failure to find Dess likely what got him “cursed.” Perhaps the condition to lift his “curse” would be to find Dess before he gets evicted. Either way, while I don’t think Asgore is actually the Knight, I’m excited to see where the parallels lead when we inevitably see him in the dark world
I've been a fan of Alphys Knight for a while now... under the assumption that she is also incredibly unlikely. Yeah, this video basically laid out all of the reasons why. The one thing I want to bring up about Alphys though is how her connect with Gaster manifests. She is arguably has the second most connections to Gaster besides Sans, you can even argue that she has more of a connection than even Sans does. I mean; she is the only other character that gets mentioned directly by any of the Gaster followers and in that same line the Gaster follower mentions her, he also wonders if Alphys will meet that same fate as Gaster. This line haunts me. It is made just vague enough for us to not really know wether the 'creation' Gaster fell into was really the core on not. When I see 'Gaster falling into a dark world' get tossed around, I also wonder how he would 'fall' in. And I think that's just it. 'Fall' can also be used as a word to mean escape into or get lost in. I.E: falling into a rabbit hole, or in the case of dark world, falling into escapism... which also reminds me of Alphys. I am definitely over thinking this. I mean; this thought process was originally meant to grab fuel for another crack theory I had. But I eventually ended up thinking about it so much, I might end up preferring it over other popular knights. (Mostly papy)
Since we know toby had the story for deltarune before making undertale, we know that if any character from undertale is the knight, then toby liked them enough to put them in two separate games. *cough* papyrus *cough*. But it's just as likely that the knight is someone new.
I don't believe in Undertale character Knight, but if it's Undyne, then her motivation could be because she's bored. She talks about how nothing interesting ever happens in this town, so she could create Dark Worlds to create this excitment that the Light World lacks for her. And also she's the only character in the Hometown sections who is made aware of the Dark World's existence, with Kris telling her. But she dismisses it, maybe because if she acknowledges their existence, it could throw suspicion onto her. The fact that she's the only character in the Hometown sections that we can talk about Dark Worlds to could mean something.
I wanna give a counter argument for knight papyrus, specifically what you said about him not being manipulated easily and kinda countering frisks actions in undertale. This is something no one in this fandom ever really points out, his relationship with flowey. No not as in shipping, you weirdos. Sans tells you papyrus has a relationship with a "talking flower." in yellow text. Papyrus calls you later after your date with Alphys greeting you with "howdy." like Asriel and Asgore. He even outright states a talking flower told him everyones numbers to call right before flowey appears. What I'm getting at is YES papyrus can't be manipulated like Noelle and other characters can with your actions, but he can be persuaded to do something, he doesn't through threats, or telling him to proceed, but if you be his friend like flowey appears to have been. I could make an argument that Papyrus is the knight, but he's not the one in complete control, like he's not the final boss,, sort of like Kris isn't the one in control. But that would make my comment WAY more longer than it already is. I think it's best to just wait till whenever he shows up, it could be next chapter or when the knight might be revealed in chapter 7. That being said, I fucking love your crack pot theory of mad mew mew knight. And I wanna bring something up to support that theory that you seem to have forgotten. Undertale came out on the switch in 2018, I think in September but do not quote me on that. Deltarunes first chapter came out October 31st 2018. FOR FREE ON SWITCH MAY I ADD. Is that a Coincidence? I. Think. Not!
I think people are really just throwing Asgore and Alphys under the bus before even considering how absolutely deep those characters have delved into the mechanics of the universe. For Asgore, almost nobody mentions the fact that he is, outside of Flowey, the only character to straight up destroy a menu button. People like to excuse it as simply being for visual-sake, but that's a cheap excuse. Asgore literally broke more of the game than Sans did, yet nobody talks about it because Asgore himself doesn't do the "haha, funny timelines" speech that Sans does. Not to mention Asgore would've been one of the closest characters to Gaster himself, since Asgore was kind of the dude who assigned Gaster's position in the first place. People brush Asgore off because he appears for like, 10 minutes at the end of Undertale, but Asgore himself has so many vital ties and potential that I would hardly doubt that he knows almost as much as Gaster knew. And then Alphys for the same reasons, everything she's done and knew. She's another Gaster linked character, by virtue of being another Royal Scientist and having access to his supplies. She's also the only character that's not meta-wall breaking that understands what Determination actually is. Not to mention, it would be such an awesome twist if Alphys was a villain. I don't think anyone understands how amazing it would be to have female Francis be evil again. I don't think they'll be the Knight, but I do think Toby has major plans for them, especially considering they're both probably the most Gaster-tied characters of the bunch, but also because Asgore straight up has a later chapter in the flower shop with the back of his store. Seriously, there's no way the 6 coloured flowers and the mysterious back doors aren't going to be chapter 6 content.
I would love Asgore getting more delved into. Like you've said, he's such an important character to the universe and yet he keeps almost all those matters private in order to appear as a well put together King. Makes me wonder what secrets he might be keeping in this world. My personal theory is that Gaster needs the memories of people who were once close to him to reconstitute himself and that's why he's brought us into this world as well. It's in my video "Shadows on the Wall" if you want to hear me talk about it.
@@guiltyflygon I'm more of the opinion that this is just another experiment by Gaster. If anything's to show by his followers, they could probably just collect all his fragments themselves if they just hustled, lol. But I can jibe with the memory stuff, although I'm still more of a fan of Gaster just not getting involved at all, like any good scientist. I also forgot to mention, that two other incredibly suspicious characters who haven't been talked about at all in Deltarune, are both the Riverperson, and goddamn Grillby. One character who's literally the only non-fun value tie to Gaster, and another who's directly tied to Sans. Both of them haven't made a single appearance in Deltarune, and Grillby's even teased. Why these two specifically. I 100% think they'll both have some sort of role, maybe chapter 6 and 7. Frankly, I wouldn't mind Grillby Knight. Badass Bartender.
@@FluffiestPrince Grillby as the Knight? Well, some people do enjoy a *Roaring* fire... ;) Asgore and Alphys are two characters who have some knowledge of the existence of resets and alternate universes too, with Asgore only nodding with grim acceptance if you tell him he's already killed you in UNDERTALE, and Alphys saying that she knows alternate universes exist. I suppose the DELTARUNE versions of these two characters don't know about all the same details, but they may still be aware of some info we are not privy to.
* Some extra things for both Papyrus and Mew Mew as they're my favourite candidates: * Papyrus and Sans in Undertale seem to have come from Deltarune, and based on the newsletters and Papyrus' personality it seems like he got amnesia in the journey over. With Papyrus' original character being a rude gangster-y shut-in, I could see that being his Deltarune personality due to everyone ignoring him, which then reforms once he enters Undertale and has forgotten everything about himself. * As for Mew Mew, some extra points for her: * 1. She has a cat spear thing in her fight which could act as her method of fountain creation * 2. A deleted Napstablook sprite shows the ghosts DO have hands, so even without a body she'd still be able to make fountains * 3. BIG SHOT has the Dummy! motif in it, which is mainly a link to Spamton and Mad Dummy puppeteering bodies, but could also reference the fact that some of Spamton's dialogue tells us he does know the knight * 4. The link to fiction makes a lot of sense with her, as if she's also trying to find her perfect body while in the dark world, it makes sense she'd go to places like the abandoned classroom and the cyber world which are all inherently make believe and so will have a lot of creativity in them to suit her body (plus Mettaton already has links to the computer lab with making his ideal body on the computers there, maybe Mew Mew was told about this by him and went there to do the same)
i've been a proponent of papyrus knight theory since that video by InsanelyADD dropped, so i do kinda feel the need to go to bat for it. that being said, i do wanna preface by saying that papyrus is my personal favorite knight candidate, but i don't think he's the most likely (that goes to mayor knight, IMO). let's think about the things papyrus likes in undertale - he wants to be a royal guard, he likes making puzzles, and he wants to generally be seen as a Cool Guy. these are all goals that, for a variety of reasons, aren't really attainable for him in hometown. there's no royal guard (and the closest thing, being the police force, are seemingly glorified traffic guards and pencil pushers), there's no need for puzzles when you aren't trying to capture errant humans, and it's hard to be a Cool Guy when you just moved somewhere and don't know anyone. point being, most of his goals (his dreams, you could say) aren't really attainable in the light world. but the dark world - like it does for the other lightners - offers him an opportunity to fulfill his wishes. the Knight has an association with a royal family, the two dark worlds have both had a good amount of puzzles, and the Knight is generally a pretty imposing and cool figure, both to the darkners and probably to the lightners (perhaps excepting kris and ralsei). i think your very own connotation theory actually makes for pretty solid evidence in support of knight papyrus, in this way. i do also want to make the case that it's possible that papyrus is being manipulated into performing as the knight. we've seen him be succeptible to manipulation by flowey in undertale, and there's a certain other skeleton in deltarune who plays a very similar role to flowey that also seems to be in the market for agents to carry out his will. the possible familial connections between gaster and papyrus only make this jucier, in my opinion. but, like i said, i don't actually think he's the most probable knight candidate. he's just the one that i think is the most fun to think about, partially because we paradoxically know so much and so little about him at the same time. as long as he has some kind of presence in deltarune, i think i'll be happy. thanks for the video!
i love this take, we have very similar taste in knight theories since knight!papyrus is my absolute favorite and i think while it isn't the absolute likeliest it would be so interesting and i do think it's likelier than a few of the more popular knight theories, my second favorite knight theory just happens to be the mayor too
@@zipperooni PAPYRUS KNIGHT NATION RISE!!! TOGETHER WE WILL BE MILDLY DISAPPOINTED WHEN IT NEVER COMES TRUE BUT MAKE SOME BANGER FAN CONTENT ABOUT WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN!!!!!! RAAAAAAAA
Mad Mew Knight is something I did not know I needed to hear. it makes too much sense for something that doesn't make sense. I know it's not happening, and I love it. also, you're presenting all of this information so well that it's making me reevaluate my current Knight speculations, so good job.
My theory is that the knight is a symbol, not a character. Kris makes a Dark fountain from literally a kitchen knife, so we can assume that just about anyone’s capable of making one. so a dark world represents a particular character and that character will be revealed later.
you forgot mettaton has a chainsaw on the cooking show pretty much dunno if he owns one in deltarune tho PLUS he can possess a body like y'know his metal body the box form meaning he can just use a body possess it and use different forms to attack you pretty much metta knight for the win would be pretty cool tbh
He doesn’t even have a dialog sprite, imo that’s a huge reason why he’s probably unimportant to the plot. Even flowey, who doesn’t have a portrait, at least doesn’t use the default speaking noise
Deltarune *is* a sequel to UNDERTALE. DR continues the same themes, characters, gameplay, visual style, etc etc, and you are expected to have played UT before playing DR. Deltarune already relies on you having played Undertale to understand things. For example, in Undertale the monsters are the species they are because of the locations they're associated with. Undyne is a fish because she's from Waterfall, Napstablook is a ghost because we meet them in the Ruins, Alphys is a lizard because she's from Hotland, the Dreemurrs are dragons because they're associated with abandoned places, power, etc etc. That context doesn't exist in Deltarune, if you look at DR by itself Undyne being a fish is a completely arbitrary choice, but that's because you aren't supposed to do that, you're supposed to look at it *with* the context of Undertale. Undyne is a fish because she was from Waterfall, and she's a cop in DR because she was the leader of the Royal Guard in UT. The only reason Toby said it isn't is to not confuse people. If he did then casual fans would be confused as to why Alphys and Undyne don't know each other and theorizing about where Flowey is and why Asriel is (allegedly) around. This is the exact same way it works in the Earthbound games.
@@Quinhala11 I mean, the *only* dragon I've ever seen in relvant media that looked *anything* like boss monsters in UT is the dragon from Never Ending Story. But I can't deny that being a possible reference to their design aswell considering Toby Fox's deep cut references.
@@TyshaggyGaming If they were goats they would have hooves and colored noses, and wouldn't have fangs or fire powers. Their only connections with goats is that their sprites kinda look goat-ish but that's it.
Yo thanks for talking about the papyrus knight cons. I always felt the excuses of papyrus being a shut in and wanting friends. Its still too dangerous and the actions the knight takes doesnt make sense. Papyrus is very open about bragging and posing and such. And any saying he is more of a shut in. That is basically giving him a completely different personality. When all the other undertale characters act similar in deltarune.
Man it's gonna be sad to see Papyrus actually suffering in the Deltarune world considering EVERY. SINGLE. FRIEND this guy had in Undertale either doesn't know him or doesn't exist....he just has his brother. Seeing how many DT character share some elements that could lead to DT Papyrus basically being desperate for friends while still being terrible at making friends and now the MC has a group of friends...He never stood a chance...I hope I'm wrong and Papyrus actually has loads of friends cause rn it feels like the Deltarune world is just everyone is happy in the world except Mettaton and Papyrus, they can go die. Like I can get it being hard to envision not being popular since the fandom loves him but in game he literally is the unpopular guy...hell Sans has more friends in UT with the Bar...
It's interesting that you point out Mettaton and Papyrus are the exception to the happy Undertale characters, because they're also the two characters (plus Onion-san lol) who have side plots we're involved in. Maybe the real end goal of it is to make a statement about us as the player changing their fates in this world.
Re: Alphys. I don't know if I agree that she has no connection to anyone of note... She lends Asgore DVDs and gets flowers from him frequently, and she's co-workers with Toriel and seems friendly with her. Iirc, she got the teaching job on Toriel's recommendation and the two seem close. As such, she's probably a long-term friend of the Dreemurs - I don't think she and Asgore would strike up a fairly close relationship from parent-teacher conferences alone. That's got some implications if true. She was probably around to see Asgore forced to leave the force, and she may even know the Dreemur's other mutual friend, Rudy. That would actually put her in the middle of quite a bit of stuff. Aside from that, the Gaster, Gerson, and Spamton connections are rather notable, but those were mentioned Re: Mew Mew Mad mew Mew is also 100% a Cat/Puppet element. I feel like that's notable, given the widely-discussed and mysteriously-teased Element 6 is to that. Why would Cat/Puppet use the Gaster Number? Maybe the knight is a cat and a puppet too. There's also that thematic resonance where Mad Mew Mew is a ghost controlling a puppet, has themes of determining who they want to be, etc. There's a surprising amount of resonance to this one. And actually, the entire puppet... concept is poked at a lot Spamton's entire deal is essentially a maladaptive attempt to do what Mettaton did in Undertale.
I'm pretty sure Cat/Puppet uses 6 as a reference to CAT6 cables, which are probably the ones we are cutting in Spamton Neo's boss battle. That's why it's both cat and puppet.
So uh how did you actually convince me that Mad Mew Mew could be the Knight? YOU LITERALLY DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THAT MAD MEW MEW AS MAD DUMMY HAS A KNIFE! Literally gonna be keeping it in mind Holy-
I haven't finished watching yet- I'm halfway through the Asgore section, so if you mention this in a minute I'll feel really stupid, but you finished the weapon section so I wanted to bring it up. You know those like... Garden.... Forks...? I forgot what they're called, but they have the four pokey things and sometimes they're really big and sometimes they're small enough you can just grab them in your hands. You know what weapon ALSO has a bunch of pokey things and is arranged somewhat similarly? Asgore's trident! Ah! Ha! Hahaha! So I wonder if he has a garden fork (i'm so goddamn sorry if there are any gardeners in the comments please tell me what this is) that turns into a trident in the dark world. I'm curious, what's the reasoning for the worn dagger being from Asgore's garden? I've never heard of this idea.
no way we see dark world asgore and he's _not_ wielding a garden-fork-trident that's such a cool concept!! and i think the worn dagger being from Asgore's garden is just assumed by some people? he's presumably the one who wrapped/preserved a possession of each of his dead kids in New Home. the description is "perfect for cutting plants and vines," and Chara was apparently fond of flowers, so people assume it was originally gifted as a gardening tool from Asgore to Chara. which, if nothing else, is pretty damn cute to consider
One more thing about the Papyrus Knight theory, in Undertale Genocide when you check him during the fight it describes him as “forgettable” . I know it’s technically related to Undertale and not Deltarune but I still find it interesting enough to mention.
Ok so i dont like papyrus knight. it just seems very lame that we'd get to fight the knight and 2 minutes into the battle he'd be like "WAIT THE ROARING WHOSE THAT" and as soon as we explain it to him he just turns around, thatd be lame, however there are some points you didn't mention. 1st one Papyrus does have a connection to the school through sans, sans is mentioned to be the janitor so he could just. you know. lend papyrus the keys. EDIT: Scratch that upon reading it again he is just talking about being the janitor of his store. 2nd one, when you interact with sans' house the flavor text says something along the lines of "* (No response...) * (... but the distant trousle of bones.) * (Knock knock knock.) * (Faintly.... faintly, a trousle... growing further away...)" i read that last growing further away as him getting too deep into these fantasy worlds, at least when thinking in papy knight. Also i think that proves that papyrus or maybe a secret third brother!?!?!?! exists. And finally i have a 3rd point which like doesnt really matter all that much since the theme is not grandious enough* to be the knight theme, but bonetrousle was originally a theme for deltarune, apparently it was a theme for normal encounters, alongside heartache. Yep just fighthing ponmen with heartache on the background. *(speaking of greatness... the bosses have all described the knight as great, which is either his biggest knock off or his biggest point to him, given his themes of how he thinks he is cool but not really all that much, if they dont actually know him then this is a point in favour, if they do then this is a huge knock off)
Reminder, the whole ending of deltarune was thought of with a fever dream, (which was in my birth year I was destined to love ut/dr) so I doubt he would make the characters he thinks of 4 years in the future as the big bad for a game he had already written the story for
currently known dr maddie lore could also strengthen the theory >maddie makes a dark world >immediately installs a suspisciously asgore-like divorced father as the king and makes sure to get on his good side
i think asgore wouldnt really be out of the place at the library, as he may need to use to computer lab to use the internet and thus nobody would really question and people might not mention it because of how asgores situation may effect kris
Chara is definitely the knight, sans gaster and papyrus are the titans, , Hello! I’m Wing Gaster the Royal Scientist! And definitely lancer is just jockington
Like, which ones? There would have to be a good idea behind it. I don't think I could realistically make a video about the dog bandits being the Knight for example.
I’d like to mention we don’t even know if papyrus exists in deltarune! Sans calls him “my brother.” So Toby doesn’t *have* to make him the brother. (Obviously he probably does or else Toby will get murdered In a dark alley from the fans but it’s still funny to imagine.)
Shit, I might be into the Maddie Knight theory now. IT'S ALL OF THE LGBTQ!!!! Kris is Non-Binary, Susie's a lesbian, Ralsei is QUEER! AND MEW MEW IS TRANS!!!! TOBY FOX HAS DONE IT AGAIN!!! RRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-
Was it confirmed that Susie's lesbian? Well, even if she's not, Noelle (a VERY important character in the story) definitely is, so it still kind of checks out.
I’m pretty sure dullahan’s aren’t knights they’re more like grim reapers. Except it’s not really that clear if they take the souls or if people they visit just shortly die after the fact. They also bring a coach with them in a lot of legends. ( as in a wagon to carry people in, not the basket ball variety)
I just meant moreso that they're people in armor that ride horseback. If you didn't know anything more about them you'd call them a knight... And I don't know much about them so I guess I should know haha.
I personally think the Kris and player dynamic will be basically as interesting if the knight is a different character with their own interesting contributions to the plot
To refute Toriel knight even further, Toby said chapter 3 wasn't going to be overly lore-filled compared to the others. Toriel knight would almost *have* to be revealed in chapter 3 if it was true
some other points against papyrus being the knight speciically: -He's WAYYYY too silly. I know Deltarune is a comedy mostly, as is undertale, but would toby fox REALLY make the suppsoed big bad JUST a dumb joke? -another point about papyrus alreayd having a big role: he was the SECOND major boss fight of undertale, snowdin was VERY MUCH 'the papyrus show' AND he was the one who got maipulated by flowey into bringing everyone along to the king's throne room in the pacifist route!
Funny enough, most of my points were directly addressing the points that were given for Papyrus Knight, so perhaps it's no surprise that neither sets of points are very concrete. The bottom line is, there is literally zero concrete evidence of Papyrus in Deltarune asides from his font being in the files, so whatever theory we want to make about what he's up to is mostly going to be speculation based on themes. Which is totally fine, (I've done plenty of theories like that!) but I don't think that makes refutations against it automatically faulty due to their relative metatextual qualities compared to other Knight candidates that we've actually seen in Deltarune already.
Reasons why Sans is a good Knight candidate: He's Sans
Reasons why Sans is a bad Knight candidate: He's Sans
"Alvin doesn't have a talk sprite...Papyrus doesn't have a talk."
I laughed much more than I should have there lmao
Talk sprites don't mean a character isn't important.
Monster kid doesn't have one
@@TheSkyGuy77 Exactly...but I just mean the sentence is funny. That's a direct quote from the video lol
True, that was a great line
@@TheSkyGuy77monster who?
@@TheSkyGuy77 Yep. In Undertale, Napstablook doesn't have a talk sprite either. It just means they find it hard to express the character's emotions through it.
We all know the night is actually Martlet from Undertale Yellow, which is Toby's way of making it canon. My uncle works at Toby Fox, that's how I know this.
"My Uncle works at Toby Fox." 💀
I know it's a joke but you could've atleast said Fangamer or something more believable 😭
@@SaltheslabI believe that was supposed to contribute to the joke
@@Saltheslab That's the point of the joke, that it's unbelievable and stupid and 100% not true - and everybody knows it.
@@SaltheslabOk but which one is funnier to say?
That you work at fangamer or Toby Fox incorporated?
I rest my case
Your Uncle it's Inside Toby?
*Friend Inside Me*
Love the idea of Mad Mew Mew being the knight... truly a win for unhinged trans women
"Why are you trying to destroy the world?"
"I wanna be a catgirl!"
@@Slenderquil Valid reason, tbh
Finally some good transfem representation
Shes literally me fr fr
@@SagaDraws Girl you're injecting yourself with Determination not estrogen, watch out or you'll melt
I've always felt that papyrus being the knight would be creative twisted mirror to his character in UT instead of being motivated by trying to get into the royal guard, he's motivated by his lonliness and lack of friends
That also mirrors Kris, and can tie the whole theme of escapism? But Papyrus? Idk
Me personally I always thought we'd get a meta meta chapter
With AUs
All I know is everytime I think about Deltarune there's a new angle or theory
“Roaring will reset the timeline or something silly like that”
Jaru would like to know your location.
Asgore wants to cause the Scratch
What’s he gonna do, be gross about Noelle at him?
@@pteroid11 what? was he gross about noelle some time?
@@pteroid11 Wdym by that?
@@Panet0nsumletterz I haven't seen him be gross towards her in literally any of his videos.
like, at most, he underlined the 'romantic' subtext of snowgrave ( the parallels of the ring, the 'date', the dynamic... even though it's obviously very twisted), and maybe the sidechick comment spamton made ?
other than that I have no idea
asgore also visibly moves around town during the story to make a joke about his ex wife or whatever. Just a thought.
That's true
eggs-wife*
Wholesome goat dad catching flak everywhere he goes
I hope Papyrus finally comes in during the end credits. It would be very funny.
Papyrus is Hero mode exclusive
6:00
Toriel does actually show concern for Kris' recent behavior, as shown in two scenes; first, the "Nevermind" option when she's on her chair in chapter 1, which reads "* Kris, perhaps you should go to bed early tonight... * You do not look quite yourself." Secondly, the infamous Ball of Junk scene, in which Toriel asks Alphys if Kris has been up to anything strange; when Alphys says they haven't, she says "* Well, that is relieving. I have just been... * A little concerned lately."
I feel like regarding the library hiding spot thing, I feel like people are really sleeping on the fact there is a whole ass second floor they could have hid in. Not even from Noelle or Berdly necessarily, but waiting out the very loud obvious traffic jam outside
I think the hardest thing to swallow about Knight speculation (and honestly any Deltarune theory) is the fact that our logic can be perfectly logical and fine but suddenly something small like one character interaction/dialogue dismantles the whole theory lol
Schrodinger's theory
The whole "does monsters in deltarune bleed" is basically completelly disproven by a single line from a nameless npcs behind a door as an example of that
@@girosvaldodeskate2214 biggest example lmao
I remember that line being so contentious because you have people like "But this scrapped animation tho, it's an AU tho"
@@girosvaldodeskate2214
though if that's the case, then why are monsters' souls are treated anywhere near as valuable as human souls?
or even monsters even able to open a dark Foutain?
@@chongwillson972 there is little talk about souls in deltarune, the only exception being spantom, however spamton could be looking for any lightneer souls, since he only seens to target kris because he is the only one he meets
As for dark fountains, berdly would nearlly ceirtanlly open one, and queen plan was extremelly clear in using noelle to expand the dark fountain in the cyberworld
@@girosvaldodeskate2214 Spamton takes special interest in our soul actually, I don't know how much to prove this other than Spamton asks to see your soul, you're a lightner after all, this means he does know about souls, but when the fight begins Spamton is shocked and says he has never seen a "[heart-shaped object] like that before" aka a soul, it is not that he has NEVER seen a soul, but it's that he has NEVER SEEN a HUMAN soul, which is different than a monster soul, it is his first time seeing a non-monster soul, which also means that just like chapter 1 darkners, there were lightners in that dark world before us, there isn't much explanation on how that even works tho
about toriel being doting in undertale: remember that's due the specific circumstance of trying to make sure the fallen children don't leave her house and get KILLED by Asgore, and we don't really know what she was like as asriel and chara's mum.
I suppose that's definitely true. Just given the way Susie talks about Toriel in CH1 I feel like she's at least similarly smothering though.
She's actually characterized as overly smothering in Deltarune, as she constantly infantilizes Kris. She always holds their hand, makes them dress in striped shirts which are reserved for children in UT, I could go on.
@@demetriam2408 I never made the connection of Kris having a striped shirt being linked with infantilization but that’s a very interesting take. Even monster kid, whose iconic design trait was the striped shirt, lacks it in their older Deltarune design, because as they said, it means you’re a kid. Odds are high Toriel at least has some say in Kris’ wardrobe as she presumably bought their clothes, it’s very possible she has total say and doesn’t allow Kris to outgrow the striped shirt because she can’t accept that Kris isn’t a little kid anymore. As someone who grew up with a mom who refused to let go of a babying infantilizing mentality, I can get how much that sucks to deal with, poor Kris.
So someting to note about KIng (and I'm happy to see someone actually use his name correctly and not jsut call him The King) is that his throne room is COVERED in cuts and slashes, suggesting a battle. It's theorised that he 'respects' the knight because the knight beat him into submission in a battle. We also don't know how uch he respects the knight, as he only has a sinlg eline of dialogue about him and its vague how he feels about the person beyond wanting the knight to summon dark fountains.
I like to call him the King anyways because it sounds better
Asgore is definitely that kind of guy.
Two extra things for papyknight. Sans is the school janitor so visiting the school wouldn't be too weird for him to visit and he could get keys from Sans. Also, maybe King would respect Papyrus because of him resembling a classroom skeleton causing king to see him as a darkner.
If papy is the knight I could see him kind of like Don Quixote maybe the more modern interpretation where he is a dreamer in a age to far from the glorious past but I could also see the older versions where don was a insane old man who doesn't notice how interesting his life is because he is to focused on it fitting his narrative of old chiveolic tales
@@Plaugus_Screenz Yes!!! Oh my god I've been thinking the same thing
"sans is the school janitor" is a point that's pulled out of nowhere from the fact he's the janitor at his shop
@@jfb- I thought he said he was hired by the school at some point but if he doesn't work for the school then my mistake. Haven't played since chapter 2's release and misremembered the janitor line.
ok why is nobody talking about how absurdly on point this guy's impressions of the characters are, I'm literally sobbing at his mettaton and susie impressions
I mainly do voice acting here on TH-cam so that makes sense haha
@@guiltyflygonalso, yup. Ghosts have souls
@@guiltyflygonafter binging a ton of your content, can confirm lmfao. You do, in fact, do a lot of voice acting. Great work!!!
31:50 now im imagining Gerson taking his students through dark worlds themed on different subjects to teach them things magic schoolbus style
Oml 😂
It's all fun and games until they get to learn about the world wars (if they even happened in Deltarune).
I like to believe that knowledge of the Dark Worlds is more spread throughout the Lightners than we know, and that's a fun idea to go along with it! Alphys could well have been a student of Gerson's as well (Does the game ever say that one way or the other?)
Imagine a dark world on the library (not the computer lab), and the whole thing is themed around "Lord of the Hammer"
“Seatbelts anyone!” “Please let this be a normal lesson…” “With Boom? No way!”
Your Papyrus voice sounds like if the Narrator from the Stanley Parable did a Papyrus voice.
This comparison is so weirdly specific, and yet I agree 100%
Found this video by chance! So I will be addressing the points you have against Knight Papyrus because Of Course I'd do that. XD
Gaster connections! Oh boy, just so you know I have been obsessed with Papyrus for 8 years now, and when it comes to Papyrus connections to Gaster there's actually a lot. There's very "oh well that could be a coincidence" stuff like the fact that the beginning of both of their speech never starts with an * like everyone else and both of them speaking exclusively in all caps. There's also the weird detail that has been re-emphasized multiple times now about how Papyrus never takes off his gloves. Some people take this to mean that Gaster became Papyrus somehow but that's not a theory I believe in because IMO it robs Papyrus of agency. Other connections include like. Okay so hear me out. This is going to sound insane.
The memoryheads from the true lab look like melted, fused together gaster blasters (but with googly eyes) with a phone cord attached and there's a point (I believe) where they call you and they also quote lorem ipsum at you. Lorem ipsum is corrupted latin text that when translated results in something similar to the poem about Gaster from ch1's files
Is that a cut on your face, or part of your eye
The gash weaves down as if you cry
The pain itself is reason why (this is the corrupted latin roughly translated)
And when you defeat the memoryheads you get an item called the bad memory, where if you eat it and have low health you are fully healed, but if you eat it when you have full/high health it takes away exactly one HP (which is curious because when Papyrus kicks you out of the fight it's always with you at 1 hp).
I do apologize if I come across like the pepe silvia meme.
Connections to the fountain locations! I didn't catch this in my actual video but someone pointed out that both locations the Knight has made fountains so far are associated with Papyrus in UT, because one is puzzle themed and the computer lab could reference how Papyrus also has a computer of his own that he claims to be popular on (despite the apparent negative follower count which some theorize is Another Gaster connection but I won't get into that) and we do get to see him post on it during the game. The infamous image of his face over a flexing buff guy is something he posted to his account during the game.
It's possible that before the Knight reveal of Papyrus (in this hypothetical) we will get our hangout with Papyrus, and we will be endeared to him all over again, which will bring in DR exclusive players and also re-emphasize to existing fans why we love Papyrus.
There's also the sort of looming possibility that DR is a prequel for UT (especially since it was conceived first) and the people sort of nervously pointing out that the weird things Sans says about how "you'll never see them again" and the newest Papyrus QNA where he reveals that before they lived in snowdin there was green grass, a surface exclusive feature. WHICH! If this is the case will solve the "He's too nice!" problem, though I personally disagree that he's the nicest fluffiest cloud of cotton candy. He is sarcastic, he is deadpan, he will causally roast the player on multiple occasions, he will roast Undyne and Sans just as easily. But I digress.
IF the theory that DR is a prequel and the skeletons came from there to UT is true then it would also explain some things they say, about how "Do you think the worst person can change, if they just have the chance?" and how Papyrus is so adamant to see the good in you despite all the bad you've done in the murder route, maybe because he's been in that position, doing catastrophically evil things, and working every day to become better than the person he used to be. At the very least Sans is concerned for him in DR.
OKAY SO! For why Papyrus is overshadowed.
You mentioned how you saw my video. People were commenting on that video that "POOR INNOCENT WITTLE PAPYRUS MUST BE BEING MANIPULATED INTO BEING BAD" which is like. So annoying. So typical. Trust me, I am a fan of this character, I interact with things regarding Papyrus. Papyrus/reader section on Ao3? 2/3rds are also Sans/reader fics (and I've read a lot of them, and Sans is almost always the focus). AUs in the fandom? Papyrus is fucking DEAD so Sans is BIG SAD :((( and kills people. Or he just doesn't exist at all. Papyrus in the fandom is almost solely used to prop up Sans. You have to seek out people like me who are mentally ill about him to find stories where he's a major focus and he's not dead, not babied, not pushed aside. As a Papyrus fan, I've started to drift away from UT a bit because the fandom so staunchly refuses to respect him. I love this skeleton, he's the best, I made an over 100 point list of facts about him because some guy made a video where he asserted Papyrus "Displays an unwavering confidence in himself despite his utter lack of competence at every level of everything."
The very fact people were saying Papyrus can't have done anything bad of his own free will removes agency from himself and overshadows him. People to this day still make jokes about him only knowing spaghetti exists and being SHOCKED about other pastas when that is literally not even canon, he knows all the other pastas. People talk about the Papyrus phone calls but only when it's in service to exploring Sans. People were like "SANS LIKES SCIENCE" which is directly stated in a Papyrus phone call but in this SAME phone call Papyrus acknowledges that HE KNOWS his brother doesn't tell him anything, but people will still write and interact with Papyrus's character like he's completely oblivious to his brother's shadiness. There's also the fact that when people have talked about this theory before it's almost always a passing mention, not ever seriously engaging with the thematic elements that link Papyrus so strongly to the Knight, which in and of itself is Papyrus being overshadowed.
You're genuinely, and sincerely, the very first person I've seen discuss knight candidates who legitimately interacted with the points of my theory without dismissing him outright. So thank you for that! I hope I didn't come across aggressive in my response to your points, I'm just very passionate about this theory, because especially when paired with the DR is a prequel/Skelebros are from DR theory it fills in the HUGE hole we have with Papyrus which is that, despite him having all his dialog and all of his scenes, we don't know a single thing about his past.
Don't worry lol, I've gone full murder board many a time on this channel for Deltarune theories.
The Memoryheads are so interesting, because they serve no real purpose in Undertale, so it definitely feels like they're hinting to something Gastery/Deltarune related. This is especially true due to Gaster's recent connection with phones thanks to Spamton. Hell, the dial-up noises they make could even be read as them trying to "connect" to you in the same way Gaster says at the beginning of Deltarune. ("Are we connected?") Given they're amalgamates they must be composed of more than just Gaster Blasters, but what?
I'd never considered a double reading into the line "do you think even the worst person can change?" because damn that would hit different if Papyrus ended up being a villain here. If there is definitely one route in Undertale where Papyrus is 100% in need of some more weight it'd be that one. Though even in that case I'd argue that Papyrus being extremely beloved is the reason why killing him is such a big deal there. His death is the tipping point even more than Toriel into driving home just how much of a real monster you've become.
I guess it just depends on whether you value the fandom or the actual game's usage more. I can see how the fandom has essentially flanderized him (along with Sans, Toriel, and DEFINITELY Chara) but, as someone who is only fandom adjacent and certainly hasn't been in the trenches like you have apparently haha, it's just a hard pill for me to swallow I guess. There's a point from someone that stuck with me (I think it was SpookyDude in their Kris Knight discussion?) about how the game is being made for the average player. There's certainly nudges for people like us who like to delve deeply into every dialogue box, but the story is probably wisely not focused on being for us. I try to take Deltarune as it is for the most part, so that's why I kind of went hard on that point in the video lol😅
The connections to the fountain locations do make a little sense at least, I probably should have come up with those if I thought harder. I definitely buy into chapter 2's connection now that I think it, as that location does have what are essentially Junior Jumbles with Ice-E even being featured. Chapter 1 I'm still not sold on quite yet though haha. There are puzzles, but that's also core to Toby's game design, so I'm not sure I could really count that. If Papyrus had some sort of link to cards or chess I might buy into it. Papyrus seems like the kind of guy to have had a phase where he got really into learning chess strategies. The part about being "too nice" was mostly focused on his morals rather than his innocence, but I think the case for him being a redeemed villain would explain that too.
As for the prequel theory, it was immediately what my mind jumped to when I first played chapter 1, but I've softened on it a bit. Mostly because it would probably require everyone to have a total memory reset asides from the skeletons, who I do at least buy a little bit as having traveled dimensions to show up in Undertale. Though it should be noted that they have "shown up and asserted themselves" in Deltarune as well. Sans has apparently landed two jobs in the short time they've been in town after all, one as the only grocer in town. I've seen it speculated that Sans is making a meta joke about the kickstarter when he describes the place they lived before having green grass. It's also possible he's referring to living at the Castle (with Gaster?) which also has a lot of green plants in the throne room, though to be fair they look more like vines, or the Ruins where the monsters used to live in canon, which has the grass growing where Flowey is first encountered. The skeletons being from Deltarune would be a pretty fun twist though.
Anyways those are my thoughts, thanks for sharing yours! Your video helped me lay out this one, so major thanks for that too lol. Most Papyrus Knight discussion I'd found online had not been very helpful in actually laying out the case.
@@guiltyflygon Yee, I'm glad my video helped you. It's always fun to look at what other people are saying so you can metaphorically sharpen your tools and devise counterarguments for what is presented. The average player perspective is something I think I might have glossed over a bit, yeah, but, if we do get that hang out with Papyrus then there's at least a setup for the twist of him as the Knight. I can't wait for the next three chapters to drop, since IIRC, it seems like they're getting close to being finished. I'll have to set some money aside to buy them when that happens. Very excited for the game in general, even if Papyrus doesn't turn out to be the knight, I'm sure whatever Toby has planned will be great.
The idea that deltarune is a sort of prequel also comes from a line from clam girl in as she says (referring to "suzy") " *In life's grand scheme, she might be why you came here in the first place..." I personally feel like that undertale and deltarune are in the grand scheme of things simultaneously a prequel and a sequel not exactly causing the other (minus the gastery bits) honestly I don't know how it would pan out maybe we'll get a post-deltarune undertale update that allows you to new-game plus deltarune via meeting "suzy" or something idk
I think that Mad Dummy could be a knight, if you think about it, the essence of ghosts is to merge with inanimate objects and.. control them.
Then what will happen to the ghost if he ends up in the dark world?
Will it be light or dark? Perhaps that is why the Spade King recognized the knight.
Mad Dummy also uses the Knife against us, but only 1 time and not as their main weapon, it looks like a hint or foreshadowing.
Just like a ghost, Mad can easily get into any location, they only needs to hide a knife there in advance.
There is even a reason why Mad is the knight, in their world there is no magic and therefore ghosts cannot merge with inanimate objects in the usual way (but perhaps in the dark world, they can merge with the dark ones and control them like puppets, just like us)
And I had a feeling that this smile on TV belonged to someone important, maybe...
The third fountain was created not by Kris but by Mad the ghost (most likely their name is something else, but we don’t know their real name yet), because Kris doesn’t even have the soul to create the fountain! And this moment was not explained. If they were actually being controlled by someone else, say a ghost who found a way to inhabit people's bodies while they slept.
Then this would be a much tougher opponent, because this is a ghost who, albeit temporarily, can control others while they are unconscious.
And in the dark world, he generally seems invincible.
(If anything, in this crack theory I assume that the Ghosts can possess people or monsters while they are unconscious, but only while they are unconscious. It cannot inhabit inanimate objects due to the lack of magic, but the ghost’s own “body” still consists of magic (otherwise elementals and ghosts would have no meaning in this world, because they are here and this is a fact).
Well, or simply Mad cannot find the “ideal” body in this world and resorted to the help of otherworldly forces. Not knowing what kind of destruction this will lead them to)
Also keep in mind that mew mew was released shortly before deltarune was released.
my opinion on the papyrus knight "he had his time to shine" thing, is that out of the main 6 characters, toriel, asgore, undyne, and alphys have major character arcs, papyrus has a mini one, about not needing to capture a human to be popular or smth along those lines, and sans has nothing outside of genocide. theyre jokey characters, they have their moments, but mostly faff about the whole time. what seperates the two however, is that papyrus has hints of something. undyne never has the talk with him on why he never can join the guard, and that whole thing is entirely untouched, papyrus's story doesnt seem finished in the game of undertale. plus papyrus is definitely tobys favorite so whos to say he wont make his favorite character a major player in 2 games?
I am 1000% confident that no Undertale character will be the knight. It just wouldn't make sense story wise to make a game with a bunch of new characters just to have one of the old ones from the "prequel" hug the spotlight
Kris is trying to find Dess, Rudy is trying to find Dess, the mayor is trying to find Dess, Noelle is trying to find Dess, Asgore is trying to find Dess- the Knight is the friends we made along the way
After Sans asks you to take care of Papyrus, he then goes on to say something like "Thanks for hanging out with him" if you say yes. This is odd, considering you literally never hung out with Papyrus yet... unless... This would be a funny overlooked dialogue if Papyrus were the Knight because chapter one's dark world is filled with board game characters. Entering the dark world would be like participating in the knight's game... maybe Papyrus's game.
I dunno, it was just a funny thought-- even though people dislike the possibility that Papyrus is the knight.
Guys I have a confession: I am the knight
Make me a dark world
My bad guys I forgot to mention, I’m gaster
since we’re taking *skeletons* out of the closet here, i gotta admit it. ness isn’t sans, i am.
Being completely honest with myself, I do like the image of midlife crisis, divorced, Knight Asgore.
I’d like to add a bit to Asgore Knight here, as while I don’t think he is the Knight, I do think he’s the most likely UT character candidate, aside from maybe Chara.
To begin, Asgore is compared to the Beast from beauty and the beast twice, as story that happens to heavily involve living objects
He also somewhat resembles the center Titan, with pauldrons horns, and what could be a cloak and crown
He’s also connected to determination with it being the name of one of his themes
Finally, he has an unused special attack where he would raise his trident above his head and slam it into the ground creating shock waves while roaring. With the word “roar” specifically being used. This has similarities to the process of creating a fountain
The other stuff I could take or leave, but the Beast connection is an interesting parallel. I wonder what his "curse" would be in this comparison.
@@guiltyflygon My guess would be his eviction date given the time limit, which would make the Mayor the enchantress equivalent, and Asgore’s failure to find Dess likely what got him “cursed.” Perhaps the condition to lift his “curse” would be to find Dess before he gets evicted.
Either way, while I don’t think Asgore is actually the Knight, I’m excited to see where the parallels lead when we inevitably see him in the dark world
I've been a fan of Alphys Knight for a while now... under the assumption that she is also incredibly unlikely. Yeah, this video basically laid out all of the reasons why. The one thing I want to bring up about Alphys though is how her connect with Gaster manifests. She is arguably has the second most connections to Gaster besides Sans, you can even argue that she has more of a connection than even Sans does. I mean; she is the only other character that gets mentioned directly by any of the Gaster followers and in that same line the Gaster follower mentions her, he also wonders if Alphys will meet that same fate as Gaster. This line haunts me. It is made just vague enough for us to not really know wether the 'creation' Gaster fell into was really the core on not. When I see 'Gaster falling into a dark world' get tossed around, I also wonder how he would 'fall' in. And I think that's just it. 'Fall' can also be used as a word to mean escape into or get lost in. I.E: falling into a rabbit hole, or in the case of dark world, falling into escapism... which also reminds me of Alphys.
I am definitely over thinking this. I mean; this thought process was originally meant to grab fuel for another crack theory I had. But I eventually ended up thinking about it so much, I might end up preferring it over other popular knights. (Mostly papy)
Since we know toby had the story for deltarune before making undertale, we know that if any character from undertale is the knight, then toby liked them enough to put them in two separate games. *cough* papyrus *cough*. But it's just as likely that the knight is someone new.
I don't believe in Undertale character Knight, but if it's Undyne, then her motivation could be because she's bored.
She talks about how nothing interesting ever happens in this town, so she could create Dark Worlds to create this excitment that the Light World lacks for her.
And also she's the only character in the Hometown sections who is made aware of the Dark World's existence, with Kris telling her. But she dismisses it, maybe because if she acknowledges their existence, it could throw suspicion onto her.
The fact that she's the only character in the Hometown sections that we can talk about Dark Worlds to could mean something.
Damn. Undyne on that Tohru Adachi "because i could and because it was interesting" beat.
I wanna give a counter argument for knight papyrus, specifically what you said about him not being manipulated easily and kinda countering frisks actions in undertale. This is something no one in this fandom ever really points out, his relationship with flowey. No not as in shipping, you weirdos. Sans tells you papyrus has a relationship with a "talking flower." in yellow text. Papyrus calls you later after your date with Alphys greeting you with "howdy." like Asriel and Asgore. He even outright states a talking flower told him everyones numbers to call right before flowey appears. What I'm getting at is YES papyrus can't be manipulated like Noelle and other characters can with your actions, but he can be persuaded to do something, he doesn't through threats, or telling him to proceed, but if you be his friend like flowey appears to have been. I could make an argument that Papyrus is the knight, but he's not the one in complete control, like he's not the final boss,, sort of like Kris isn't the one in control. But that would make my comment WAY more longer than it already is. I think it's best to just wait till whenever he shows up, it could be next chapter or when the knight might be revealed in chapter 7.
That being said, I fucking love your crack pot theory of mad mew mew knight. And I wanna bring something up to support that theory that you seem to have forgotten. Undertale came out on the switch in 2018, I think in September but do not quote me on that. Deltarunes first chapter came out October 31st 2018. FOR FREE ON SWITCH MAY I ADD. Is that a Coincidence? I. Think. Not!
I think people are really just throwing Asgore and Alphys under the bus before even considering how absolutely deep those characters have delved into the mechanics of the universe.
For Asgore, almost nobody mentions the fact that he is, outside of Flowey, the only character to straight up destroy a menu button. People like to excuse it as simply being for visual-sake, but that's a cheap excuse. Asgore literally broke more of the game than Sans did, yet nobody talks about it because Asgore himself doesn't do the "haha, funny timelines" speech that Sans does. Not to mention Asgore would've been one of the closest characters to Gaster himself, since Asgore was kind of the dude who assigned Gaster's position in the first place. People brush Asgore off because he appears for like, 10 minutes at the end of Undertale, but Asgore himself has so many vital ties and potential that I would hardly doubt that he knows almost as much as Gaster knew.
And then Alphys for the same reasons, everything she's done and knew. She's another Gaster linked character, by virtue of being another Royal Scientist and having access to his supplies. She's also the only character that's not meta-wall breaking that understands what Determination actually is. Not to mention, it would be such an awesome twist if Alphys was a villain. I don't think anyone understands how amazing it would be to have female Francis be evil again.
I don't think they'll be the Knight, but I do think Toby has major plans for them, especially considering they're both probably the most Gaster-tied characters of the bunch, but also because Asgore straight up has a later chapter in the flower shop with the back of his store. Seriously, there's no way the 6 coloured flowers and the mysterious back doors aren't going to be chapter 6 content.
I would love Asgore getting more delved into. Like you've said, he's such an important character to the universe and yet he keeps almost all those matters private in order to appear as a well put together King. Makes me wonder what secrets he might be keeping in this world.
My personal theory is that Gaster needs the memories of people who were once close to him to reconstitute himself and that's why he's brought us into this world as well. It's in my video "Shadows on the Wall" if you want to hear me talk about it.
@@guiltyflygon I'm more of the opinion that this is just another experiment by Gaster. If anything's to show by his followers, they could probably just collect all his fragments themselves if they just hustled, lol. But I can jibe with the memory stuff, although I'm still more of a fan of Gaster just not getting involved at all, like any good scientist.
I also forgot to mention, that two other incredibly suspicious characters who haven't been talked about at all in Deltarune, are both the Riverperson, and goddamn Grillby. One character who's literally the only non-fun value tie to Gaster, and another who's directly tied to Sans. Both of them haven't made a single appearance in Deltarune, and Grillby's even teased. Why these two specifically. I 100% think they'll both have some sort of role, maybe chapter 6 and 7. Frankly, I wouldn't mind Grillby Knight. Badass Bartender.
@@FluffiestPrince Grillby as the Knight? Well, some people do enjoy a *Roaring* fire... ;)
Asgore and Alphys are two characters who have some knowledge of the existence of resets and alternate universes too, with Asgore only nodding with grim acceptance if you tell him he's already killed you in UNDERTALE, and Alphys saying that she knows alternate universes exist. I suppose the DELTARUNE versions of these two characters don't know about all the same details, but they may still be aware of some info we are not privy to.
@@FluffiestPrince grillby knight will make a grillbillion dark fountains and organise the greatest cook out in all the land
* Some extra things for both Papyrus and Mew Mew as they're my favourite candidates:
* Papyrus and Sans in Undertale seem to have come from Deltarune, and based on the newsletters and Papyrus' personality it seems like he got amnesia in the journey over. With Papyrus' original character being a rude gangster-y shut-in, I could see that being his Deltarune personality due to everyone ignoring him, which then reforms once he enters Undertale and has forgotten everything about himself.
* As for Mew Mew, some extra points for her:
* 1. She has a cat spear thing in her fight which could act as her method of fountain creation
* 2. A deleted Napstablook sprite shows the ghosts DO have hands, so even without a body she'd still be able to make fountains
* 3. BIG SHOT has the Dummy! motif in it, which is mainly a link to Spamton and Mad Dummy puppeteering bodies, but could also reference the fact that some of Spamton's dialogue tells us he does know the knight
* 4. The link to fiction makes a lot of sense with her, as if she's also trying to find her perfect body while in the dark world, it makes sense she'd go to places like the abandoned classroom and the cyber world which are all inherently make believe and so will have a lot of creativity in them to suit her body (plus Mettaton already has links to the computer lab with making his ideal body on the computers there, maybe Mew Mew was told about this by him and went there to do the same)
i've been a proponent of papyrus knight theory since that video by InsanelyADD dropped, so i do kinda feel the need to go to bat for it. that being said, i do wanna preface by saying that papyrus is my personal favorite knight candidate, but i don't think he's the most likely (that goes to mayor knight, IMO).
let's think about the things papyrus likes in undertale - he wants to be a royal guard, he likes making puzzles, and he wants to generally be seen as a Cool Guy. these are all goals that, for a variety of reasons, aren't really attainable for him in hometown. there's no royal guard (and the closest thing, being the police force, are seemingly glorified traffic guards and pencil pushers), there's no need for puzzles when you aren't trying to capture errant humans, and it's hard to be a Cool Guy when you just moved somewhere and don't know anyone.
point being, most of his goals (his dreams, you could say) aren't really attainable in the light world. but the dark world - like it does for the other lightners - offers him an opportunity to fulfill his wishes. the Knight has an association with a royal family, the two dark worlds have both had a good amount of puzzles, and the Knight is generally a pretty imposing and cool figure, both to the darkners and probably to the lightners (perhaps excepting kris and ralsei). i think your very own connotation theory actually makes for pretty solid evidence in support of knight papyrus, in this way.
i do also want to make the case that it's possible that papyrus is being manipulated into performing as the knight. we've seen him be succeptible to manipulation by flowey in undertale, and there's a certain other skeleton in deltarune who plays a very similar role to flowey that also seems to be in the market for agents to carry out his will. the possible familial connections between gaster and papyrus only make this jucier, in my opinion.
but, like i said, i don't actually think he's the most probable knight candidate. he's just the one that i think is the most fun to think about, partially because we paradoxically know so much and so little about him at the same time. as long as he has some kind of presence in deltarune, i think i'll be happy.
thanks for the video!
i love this take, we have very similar taste in knight theories since knight!papyrus is my absolute favorite and i think while it isn't the absolute likeliest it would be so interesting and i do think it's likelier than a few of the more popular knight theories, my second favorite knight theory just happens to be the mayor too
minor nitpick. i feel that papyrus would adore being a glorified traffic guard and pencil pusher.
@@Greg-ix4nu true
@@zipperooni PAPYRUS KNIGHT NATION RISE!!! TOGETHER WE WILL BE MILDLY DISAPPOINTED WHEN IT NEVER COMES TRUE BUT MAKE SOME BANGER FAN CONTENT ABOUT WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN!!!!!! RAAAAAAAA
@@Greg-ix4nu now this is the discourse i was hoping for
Mad Mew Knight is something I did not know I needed to hear. it makes too much sense for something that doesn't make sense. I know it's not happening, and I love it.
also, you're presenting all of this information so well that it's making me reevaluate my current Knight speculations, so good job.
Alphys fans rise up! I love Alphys, annoyance and all
YES MAD MEW MEW KNIGHT! She's been my crack theory for a while now, I love my violent knife wielding trans catgirl
Wait she's trans? I just thought the mad dummy was just an aggressive chick lmao
@@gbproductions7901 I think it's an allegory, since all ghosts are non-binary before fusing with their vessels (or so I heard, lol)
Asgore is the most divorced guy I know
My theory is that the knight is a symbol, not a character. Kris makes a Dark fountain from literally a kitchen knife, so we can assume that just about anyone’s capable of making one. so a dark world represents a particular character and that character will be revealed later.
you forgot mettaton has a chainsaw on the cooking show pretty much dunno if he owns one in deltarune tho
PLUS he can possess a body like y'know his metal body the box form meaning he can just use a body possess it and use different forms to attack you pretty much
metta knight for the win would be pretty cool tbh
For a second I always think I've accidentally clicked on a Shaun video, upon hearing the intro lol
Excited for the theory though! :)
Tbh, I think Alvin is the knight or knighted the current Knight.
Idk tho
He doesn’t even have a dialog sprite, imo that’s a huge reason why he’s probably unimportant to the plot. Even flowey, who doesn’t have a portrait, at least doesn’t use the default speaking noise
Deltarune *is* a sequel to UNDERTALE. DR continues the same themes, characters, gameplay, visual style, etc etc, and you are expected to have played UT before playing DR.
Deltarune already relies on you having played Undertale to understand things. For example, in Undertale the monsters are the species they are because of the locations they're associated with. Undyne is a fish because she's from Waterfall, Napstablook is a ghost because we meet them in the Ruins, Alphys is a lizard because she's from Hotland, the Dreemurrs are dragons because they're associated with abandoned places, power, etc etc. That context doesn't exist in Deltarune, if you look at DR by itself Undyne being a fish is a completely arbitrary choice, but that's because you aren't supposed to do that, you're supposed to look at it *with* the context of Undertale. Undyne is a fish because she was from Waterfall, and she's a cop in DR because she was the leader of the Royal Guard in UT.
The only reason Toby said it isn't is to not confuse people. If he did then casual fans would be confused as to why Alphys and Undyne don't know each other and theorizing about where Flowey is and why Asriel is (allegedly) around.
This is the exact same way it works in the Earthbound games.
The dreemurrs are goats though..
@@TyshaggyGaming
Nope they're dragons, their face just kinda resembles goats but they have 0 in common with goats.
@@Quinhala11 I mean, the *only* dragon I've ever seen in relvant media that looked *anything* like boss monsters in UT is the dragon from Never Ending Story. But I can't deny that being a possible reference to their design aswell considering Toby Fox's deep cut references.
@@TyshaggyGaming
If they were goats they would have hooves and colored noses, and wouldn't have fangs or fire powers.
Their only connections with goats is that their sprites kinda look goat-ish but that's it.
Yo thanks for talking about the papyrus knight cons. I always felt the excuses of papyrus being a shut in and wanting friends. Its still too dangerous and the actions the knight takes doesnt make sense. Papyrus is very open about bragging and posing and such. And any saying he is more of a shut in. That is basically giving him a completely different personality. When all the other undertale characters act similar in deltarune.
i mean, we could consider that maybe he tried to join the police, but undyne had no reason to help papyrus, so he just gave up.
idk tho :/
Man it's gonna be sad to see Papyrus actually suffering in the Deltarune world considering EVERY. SINGLE. FRIEND this guy had in Undertale either doesn't know him or doesn't exist....he just has his brother. Seeing how many DT character share some elements that could lead to DT Papyrus basically being desperate for friends while still being terrible at making friends and now the MC has a group of friends...He never stood a chance...I hope I'm wrong and Papyrus actually has loads of friends cause rn it feels like the Deltarune world is just everyone is happy in the world except Mettaton and Papyrus, they can go die.
Like I can get it being hard to envision not being popular since the fandom loves him but in game he literally is the unpopular guy...hell Sans has more friends in UT with the Bar...
It's interesting that you point out Mettaton and Papyrus are the exception to the happy Undertale characters, because they're also the two characters (plus Onion-san lol) who have side plots we're involved in. Maybe the real end goal of it is to make a statement about us as the player changing their fates in this world.
@@guiltyflygon Actually that could be interesting direction for the story to take.
Re: Alphys. I don't know if I agree that she has no connection to anyone of note...
She lends Asgore DVDs and gets flowers from him frequently, and she's co-workers with Toriel and seems friendly with her. Iirc, she got the teaching job on Toriel's recommendation and the two seem close. As such, she's probably a long-term friend of the Dreemurs - I don't think she and Asgore would strike up a fairly close relationship from parent-teacher conferences alone.
That's got some implications if true. She was probably around to see Asgore forced to leave the force, and she may even know the Dreemur's other mutual friend, Rudy. That would actually put her in the middle of quite a bit of stuff.
Aside from that, the Gaster, Gerson, and Spamton connections are rather notable, but those were mentioned
Re: Mew Mew
Mad mew Mew is also 100% a Cat/Puppet element. I feel like that's notable, given the widely-discussed and mysteriously-teased Element 6 is to that.
Why would Cat/Puppet use the Gaster Number? Maybe the knight is a cat and a puppet too.
There's also that thematic resonance where Mad Mew Mew is a ghost controlling a puppet, has themes of determining who they want to be, etc. There's a surprising amount of resonance to this one.
And actually, the entire puppet... concept is poked at a lot Spamton's entire deal is essentially a maladaptive attempt to do what Mettaton did in Undertale.
I'm pretty sure Cat/Puppet uses 6 as a reference to CAT6 cables, which are probably the ones we are cutting in Spamton Neo's boss battle. That's why it's both cat and puppet.
Also, Toriel keeps her door locked (presumably because she heard Kris screaming while ripping their soul and went to check)
So uh how did you actually convince me that Mad Mew Mew could be the Knight? YOU LITERALLY DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THAT MAD MEW MEW AS MAD DUMMY HAS A KNIFE!
Literally gonna be keeping it in mind Holy-
Oh, that's true!
@@guiltyflygon I'm guessing if there's gonna be any Undertale character that's the Knight, it's gonna be Mad Mew Mew
I haven't finished watching yet- I'm halfway through the Asgore section, so if you mention this in a minute I'll feel really stupid, but you finished the weapon section so I wanted to bring it up. You know those like... Garden.... Forks...? I forgot what they're called, but they have the four pokey things and sometimes they're really big and sometimes they're small enough you can just grab them in your hands. You know what weapon ALSO has a bunch of pokey things and is arranged somewhat similarly? Asgore's trident! Ah! Ha! Hahaha! So I wonder if he has a garden fork (i'm so goddamn sorry if there are any gardeners in the comments please tell me what this is) that turns into a trident in the dark world.
I'm curious, what's the reasoning for the worn dagger being from Asgore's garden? I've never heard of this idea.
Garden fork is actually proper, or hand hoe/rake hoe
@@hannahbrown5465 thank you so much dude
no way we see dark world asgore and he's _not_ wielding a garden-fork-trident that's such a cool concept!!
and i think the worn dagger being from Asgore's garden is just assumed by some people? he's presumably the one who wrapped/preserved a possession of each of his dead kids in New Home. the description is "perfect for cutting plants and vines," and Chara was apparently fond of flowers, so people assume it was originally gifted as a gardening tool from Asgore to Chara. which, if nothing else, is pretty damn cute to consider
@@kitschkyyt OH I forgot the description
One more thing about the Papyrus Knight theory, in Undertale Genocide when you check him during the fight it describes him as “forgettable” . I know it’s technically related to Undertale and not Deltarune but I still find it interesting enough to mention.
Ok so i dont like papyrus knight. it just seems very lame that we'd get to fight the knight and 2 minutes into the battle he'd be like "WAIT THE ROARING WHOSE THAT" and as soon as we explain it to him he just turns around, thatd be lame, however there are some points you didn't mention. 1st one Papyrus does have a connection to the school through sans, sans is mentioned to be the janitor so he could just. you know. lend papyrus the keys. EDIT: Scratch that upon reading it again he is just talking about being the janitor of his store.
2nd one, when you interact with sans' house the flavor text says something along the lines of "* (No response...) * (... but the distant trousle of bones.) * (Knock knock knock.) * (Faintly.... faintly, a trousle... growing further away...)" i read that last growing further away as him getting too deep into these fantasy worlds, at least when thinking in papy knight. Also i think that proves that papyrus or maybe a secret third brother!?!?!?! exists.
And finally i have a 3rd point which like doesnt really matter all that much since the theme is not grandious enough* to be the knight theme, but bonetrousle was originally a theme for deltarune, apparently it was a theme for normal encounters, alongside heartache. Yep just fighthing ponmen with heartache on the background.
*(speaking of greatness... the bosses have all described the knight as great, which is either his biggest knock off or his biggest point to him, given his themes of how he thinks he is cool but not really all that much, if they dont actually know him then this is a point in favour, if they do then this is a huge knock off)
31:26
Her personality is more about avoiding responsibility for accidents.
I PERSONALLY WILL BE ON THE MAD MEW MEW KNIGHT TRAIN UNTIL IT IS REVEALED.
can't believe you made a video on undertale knights and did not include burgerpants knight. i'm subscribing so i can unsubscribe. /j
I listened to this in the background while doing hw idk why but this helped bc I focused on both things at once
Reminder, the whole ending of deltarune was thought of with a fever dream, (which was in my birth year I was destined to love ut/dr) so I doubt he would make the characters he thinks of 4 years in the future as the big bad for a game he had already written the story for
The final fantasy warriors beginner class are sometimes canonically called onion knights. Like in final fantasy 3 for example.
My theory is that it's Noelle's sister cause she's missing (never found) and been teased especially with Noelle being a kinda main character
In genocide: Papyrus' description is "forgettable" so it wouldn't be weird if in deltarune he really was that
Did you make that "is it not past your bedtime" meme? It made me lol.
They're actually official stickers made for the LINE app. You can find them by searching that haha.
currently known dr maddie lore could also strengthen the theory
>maddie makes a dark world
>immediately installs a suspisciously asgore-like divorced father as the king and makes sure to get on his good side
I'm gonna assume you mean Dr. Gaster, and if so I agree!
I think Maddie is a nickname for Mad Mew Mew
@@FlowFlow_2slow Oh, yeah that makes more sense.
That thumbnail is something else
Monsters have determination in Undertale, just an extremely small amount when compared to humans. Undyne just has more than average for a monster.
i think asgore wouldnt really be out of the place at the library, as he may need to use to computer lab to use the internet and thus nobody would really question and people might not mention it because of how asgores situation may effect kris
jaru talked about Mad Dummy as a knight candidate, he concluded they were almost as good a candidate as Alvin
Chara is definitely the knight, sans gaster and papyrus are the titans, , Hello! I’m Wing Gaster the Royal Scientist! And definitely lancer is just jockington
I wonder can you do the hometown npcs as the knight?
Like, which ones? There would have to be a good idea behind it. I don't think I could realistically make a video about the dog bandits being the Knight for example.
Idk um catdad?
I’d like to mention we don’t even know if papyrus exists in deltarune! Sans calls him “my brother.” So Toby doesn’t *have* to make him the brother. (Obviously he probably does or else Toby will get murdered In a dark alley from the fans but it’s still funny to imagine.)
His font is also in the files, but that could just be to keep up appearances lol
Im like number 66
Guess that means I'm Gaster 😂
Shit, I might be into the Maddie Knight theory now. IT'S ALL OF THE LGBTQ!!!! Kris is Non-Binary, Susie's a lesbian, Ralsei is QUEER! AND MEW MEW IS TRANS!!!! TOBY FOX HAS DONE IT AGAIN!!! RRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-
Was it confirmed that Susie's lesbian?
Well, even if she's not, Noelle (a VERY important character in the story) definitely is, so it still kind of checks out.
I’m pretty sure dullahan’s aren’t knights they’re more like grim reapers. Except it’s not really that clear if they take the souls or if people they visit just shortly die after the fact. They also bring a coach with them in a lot of legends. ( as in a wagon to carry people in, not the basket ball variety)
I just meant moreso that they're people in armor that ride horseback. If you didn't know anything more about them you'd call them a knight... And I don't know much about them so I guess I should know haha.
toriel joining us in ch3 isnt a knock against toriel i dont think, since the knight didnt make this fountain, kris did
i just think kris being the knight is the best option it is the most interesting and would improve the kris and player dynamic
Kris seems to tolerate the player though.
I personally think the Kris and player dynamic will be basically as interesting if the knight is a different character with their own interesting contributions to the plot
I disagree, I think there are plenty of more interesting characters that could've been the Knight
To refute Toriel knight even further, Toby said chapter 3 wasn't going to be overly lore-filled compared to the others. Toriel knight would almost *have* to be revealed in chapter 3 if it was true
Same applies to Undyne or Napstablook, one or both will likely also be in chapter 3
why asgore doesn't have a drawing of his own?
Like I said, I'm using the LINE app Undertale/Deltarune stickers, and Asgore doesn't have any 😔. Take it up with Toby lol.
Toby a certified goat dad hater confirmed
I like to imagine this all are family photos and Tori removed him from the pictures lol
some other points against papyrus being the knight speciically:
-He's WAYYYY too silly. I know Deltarune is a comedy mostly, as is undertale, but would toby fox REALLY make the suppsoed big bad JUST a dumb joke?
-another point about papyrus alreayd having a big role: he was the SECOND major boss fight of undertale, snowdin was VERY MUCH 'the papyrus show' AND he was the one who got maipulated by flowey into bringing everyone along to the king's throne room in the pacifist route!
Fire ass thumbnail
i like kris knight for. cause im right idk. but mew mew is a good one :3
I dont think king knows the knight at all
Cool
420 :3
Your knocks against paryrus knight are all faulty weightless points, literally none of them are valid reasons against him being the knight
Sounds like cope to me
Funny enough, most of my points were directly addressing the points that were given for Papyrus Knight, so perhaps it's no surprise that neither sets of points are very concrete. The bottom line is, there is literally zero concrete evidence of Papyrus in Deltarune asides from his font being in the files, so whatever theory we want to make about what he's up to is mostly going to be speculation based on themes. Which is totally fine, (I've done plenty of theories like that!) but I don't think that makes refutations against it automatically faulty due to their relative metatextual qualities compared to other Knight candidates that we've actually seen in Deltarune already.