Ha what a blast from the past. I have one of these in black. The quick tuners do kind of lean over like that. The brass inserts for the trem mount screws rocked out of the soft body wood after about 6 months of playing. A luthier tried to repair it by putting in hardware dowel inserts but those failed as well. I said screw it and had a machine shop put in a 1/4" threaded steel bar. Not sure it helped the tone but it sure fixed the trem issue. I also had to replace the 5-way, they must have had some issues with those. I get it out sometimes and it still sounds great.
I got this specifically for the Kahler 2500 as I’m in the middle of doing a huge piece on them. I will do a complete tear down and re-install of this whammy bar. In addition I am very far long in a huge documentary on the history of Kahler. If any of that interests you I hope you come back to check it out.
I liked those Charvels from that era. I liked the Kahler 2500 which a friend had on a white Model 2. It stayed in tune fine. It was always set flush. I always hated snipping off the ball ends for Floyds.
If you like Floyd performance but don’t like cutting off the ball ends this might be of interest to you. The 2024 Kahler Steeler Professional th-cam.com/video/W_ruhk9WTwA/w-d-xo.html
I’ve been buying vintage Ibanez RGs my luthier has found all kinds of goofy stuff that’s the problem with old guitars many hands have been in there and some not in a good way. I completely put all new components in them from the pots to the pickups I leave the original 5 way switch if I can.
Hi @Rexylab perhaps you can help me with an information. I have an old Charvel Model 4 MIJ 85 or 86. I love the size of the frets, I have another guitar that I will have to refret soon, and I am planning to use the same fret size of the Charvel, but in Stainless Steel. Do you know what fret size or type I should purchase? Thanks in advance for your help.
Probably SS6100. That would be stainless steel jumbo. But a level and crown can be done a few times before you need to refret if you haven’t done that yet.
Thank you @@REXYLAB I've done some leveling and polishing a few times. The frets are getting pretty low. I think it is time for a refreting.. Thank you for the specs. Dheers, ivo
IiRC, those Kahlers had more threads on the fine tuners than the actual range of adjustability. Couple that with the offset design of the fine tuner mechanism and the need to go "just a little more" to get the string in tune would stress those offset blocks. Over time, rinse repeat, rinse repeat, and finally that zinc or Zamak block would fail. I've seen quite a few guitars for sale with that trem with one or more fine tuners completely gone. I always liked the compactness of the trem, but felt fine tuner design was its Achilles heel.
I believe you and the have the same opinion on this bridge. Other than the fine tuner design (all of it) I like the bridge. And I’ll baby it. I have this crazy notion to have a museum of every whammy bar on the planet. You should see what the went through to make a working accutune 2.
I built a partcaster in the 80s with the 2500. It was cool, but my skillset was lacking so I think I didn't line something up properly, oh well. It's long gone now. Also, Ronnie Le Tekro of TNT used a Charvel similar to that with that trem.
I tuned this up and promptly broke a string! That’s ok because somebody screwed up the pick guard so I have to replace it. I got this guitar so I could show how to rebuild the Kahler 2500. I’m about to do a lot of Kahler videos and even give away an American Fender Strat with a Kahler 2300.
Our guitar player back in the 80s had a Charvel almost exactly like that. Pretty sure his did not have a pick guard though. I talked to him a couple of years ago and ask if he still had it. He traded it off. I was hoping to buy it from him. I dig the shirt dude!
Thanks! I love this shirt. I must admit, I think this Charvel is beautiful. There’s just something about when you put red and black together. Not only that but it’s specked with really nice parts too! I can’t wait to put this one back together.
If you wanted to keep it Kahler you could do a 2300. You could also retrofit a Vega Trem in. Either would require a little modification but the 2300 would need routing as well.
@@REXYLAB thanx , I alteady bought the VegaTrem but I have not replaced It yet. The only con could be the fact that VegaTrem says that it fits only until .54 for low E string and I use .56 so... I need a "B Plan"
@@oris81 2300 then, you can get oversized rollers and string hooks and it will fit your preferred strings. Realize you will need to route but the 2300 is great and very customizable.
I assume you mean the history of Kahler video I have been telling people about for about a month now. The short answer is it is done and waiting for Gary Kahler to say it meets his approval. The long answer is I have no idea when he will do that but I don’t want to be like the tone king or KDH and put something out full of mistakes about Kahler. The video takes you through 1975 to now. It talks about every kahler vibrato bridge as well as fakes. It even talks about the golf club years. It is on revision 1 and hopefully Gary loves it. But if he doesn’t… I hope that answers your question. It is unfortunately the best answer I have at the moment.
@@swagwolfgang I work at Kahler. This is the only one that fits. I know it says bass arm but it’s the same one we use for fulcrums. kahlerusa.com/product/standard-bass-tremolo-arm/
My uncle had an old Peavey Falcon with I believe that same Kahler on it , when I was a kid I thought his Falcon was as cool as guitars got it was black with a black guard and had a maple board on it and it was probably as good of a guitar as I’ve ever played the old Peavey stuff was incredible and about half the money of fender.
I have a few peaveys from the 80s and the one has a kahler killer on it. The old peavey stuff was great. It makes me sad it isn’t what it used to be but I’ll buy that old 80s stuff all day long when I see it.
@@REXYLAB yeah a couple years ago it had gotten kinda stupid what people were asking for the old USA Peavey but I think they have come back to reasonable last I checked
@@REXYLAB yeah they couldn’t give them away and all the old heads in the shops trying to tell us they were great but we didn’t care because they didn’t have a point on them anywhere
I have this same guitar for a couple years now.. just don't like it.. Hate the Kahler Fulcrum or traditional or whatever.. . don't like the lacquer or whatever on back of the neck all that much.... Thinking of giving it one more go by installing an 80's Kahler Killer trem on it.. It looks good, reminds me of my once upon a time 86 Kramer Baretta neck wise but with wimpier Pickups and the Kahler which blech.. I'm a FLoyd guy lol.
Funny you should say that because Gary Kahler hates this bridge too! I as well am not a fan but I have a goal to show everyone how to set up every guitar ever made so I got this one. However, you are 100% correct… the killer is a drop in replacement and it is an outstanding bridge! It flutters like a motherfucker and actually won awards in metallurgy because it is so ground breaking. I work for Kahler now and I told Gary Kahler from day one I’m a fulcrum guy (the Kahler Steeler is amazing) and I love my killer equipped guitar. It flutters like Steve Vai on crack! I will do many videos on the killer including putting one on this guitar so I hope you keep it and give it a chance.
@@REXYLAB I just bought a red killer off reverb! Gonna drop it in this weekend on my 86 which like yours is also red with black pickguard.. HSH config Jackson pups
Gray’s a genius what an incredible invention! Beautiful Charvel as well!! 😁
I really love these guitars!
Ha what a blast from the past. I have one of these in black. The quick tuners do kind of lean over like that. The brass inserts for the trem mount screws rocked out of the soft body wood after about 6 months of playing. A luthier tried to repair it by putting in hardware dowel inserts but those failed as well. I said screw it and had a machine shop put in a 1/4" threaded steel bar. Not sure it helped the tone but it sure fixed the trem issue. I also had to replace the 5-way, they must have had some issues with those. I get it out sometimes and it still sounds great.
I got this specifically for the Kahler 2500 as I’m in the middle of doing a huge piece on them.
I will do a complete tear down and re-install of this whammy bar. In addition I am very far long in a huge documentary on the history of Kahler.
If any of that interests you I hope you come back to check it out.
I liked those Charvels from that era. I liked the Kahler 2500 which a friend had on a white Model 2. It stayed in tune fine. It was always set flush. I always hated snipping off the ball ends for Floyds.
If you like Floyd performance but don’t like cutting off the ball ends this might be of interest to you.
The 2024 Kahler Steeler Professional
th-cam.com/video/W_ruhk9WTwA/w-d-xo.html
I’ve been buying vintage Ibanez RGs my luthier has found all kinds of goofy stuff that’s the problem with old guitars many hands have been in there and some not in a good way. I completely put all new components in them from the pots to the pickups I leave the original 5 way switch if I can.
It’s a real bummer when someone destroys parts that are original to the guitar (like the pick guard) that are obvious.
Hi @Rexylab perhaps you can help me with an information.
I have an old Charvel Model 4 MIJ 85 or 86.
I love the size of the frets, I have another guitar that I will have to refret soon, and I am planning to use the same fret size of the Charvel, but in Stainless Steel. Do you know what fret size or type I should purchase?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Probably SS6100. That would be stainless steel jumbo. But a level and crown can be done a few times before you need to refret if you haven’t done that yet.
Thank you @@REXYLAB I've done some leveling and polishing a few times.
The frets are getting pretty low. I think it is time for a refreting..
Thank you for the specs.
Dheers,
ivo
@@filmes66642 No problem. I’m sure you already know that stainless is going to be much more difficult than nickel, right?
IiRC, those Kahlers had more threads on the fine tuners than the actual range of adjustability. Couple that with the offset design of the fine tuner mechanism and the need to go "just a little more" to get the string in tune would stress those offset blocks. Over time, rinse repeat, rinse repeat, and finally that zinc or Zamak block would fail. I've seen quite a few guitars for sale with that trem with one or more fine tuners completely gone. I always liked the compactness of the trem, but felt fine tuner design was its Achilles heel.
I believe you and the have the same opinion on this bridge. Other than the fine tuner design (all of it) I like the bridge. And I’ll baby it.
I have this crazy notion to have a museum of every whammy bar on the planet. You should see what the went through to make a working accutune 2.
I built a partcaster in the 80s with the 2500. It was cool, but my skillset was lacking so I think I didn't line something up properly, oh well. It's long gone now.
Also, Ronnie Le Tekro of TNT used a Charvel similar to that with that trem.
I tuned this up and promptly broke a string! That’s ok because somebody screwed up the pick guard so I have to replace it.
I got this guitar so I could show how to rebuild the Kahler 2500. I’m about to do a lot of Kahler videos and even give away an American Fender Strat with a Kahler 2300.
Our guitar player back in the 80s had a Charvel almost exactly like that. Pretty sure his did not have a pick guard though. I talked to him a couple of years ago and ask if he still had it. He traded it off. I was hoping to buy it from him.
I dig the shirt dude!
Thanks! I love this shirt.
I must admit, I think this Charvel is beautiful. There’s just something about when you put red and black together.
Not only that but it’s specked with really nice parts too! I can’t wait to put this one back together.
@@REXYLAB Looking forward to it.
@@mooreoutdoor9841 I have to get a replacement pickguard but it’s coming.
@@mooreoutdoor9841hey moore, I have a pretty mint 1986 jackson charvel model 3 if you were still looking to buy one let me know
Cool axe. 👍 ❤ 🍻 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶
Thank you! I like it too.
Nice!I own the same model but in white. Which other bridge could be a DIRECT replacment? I need something which can deeply dive bomb!
If you wanted to keep it Kahler you could do a 2300. You could also retrofit a Vega Trem in. Either would require a little modification but the 2300 would need routing as well.
@@REXYLAB thanx , I alteady bought the VegaTrem but I have not replaced It yet. The only con could be the fact that VegaTrem says that it fits only until .54 for low E string and I use .56 so... I need a "B Plan"
@@oris81 2300 then, you can get oversized rollers and string hooks and it will fit your preferred strings.
Realize you will need to route but the 2300 is great and very customizable.
@@REXYLAB thanx a lot
@@oris81 no problem. You can get what you need by emailing gk@kahlerusa.com.
When is the video coming out?
I assume you mean the history of Kahler video I have been telling people about for about a month now.
The short answer is it is done and waiting for Gary Kahler to say it meets his approval.
The long answer is I have no idea when he will do that but I don’t want to be like the tone king or KDH and put something out full of mistakes about Kahler.
The video takes you through 1975 to now. It talks about every kahler vibrato bridge as well as fakes. It even talks about the golf club years.
It is on revision 1 and hopefully Gary loves it. But if he doesn’t…
I hope that answers your question. It is unfortunately the best answer I have at the moment.
Do you have any Bendmaster tremelow's? (I think they are called a Bendmaster) DO you have any Westone guitars that you are willing to part with?
I have a bendmaster on a BC Rich platinum just to have an example of one. None of my guitars are for sale.
I have this guitar same pickups and kahler but lost the whammy
@@swagwolfgang I work at Kahler. This is the only one that fits. I know it says bass arm but it’s the same one we use for fulcrums.
kahlerusa.com/product/standard-bass-tremolo-arm/
My uncle had an old Peavey Falcon with I believe that same Kahler on it , when I was a kid I thought his Falcon was as cool as guitars got it was black with a black guard and had a maple board on it and it was probably as good of a guitar as I’ve ever played the old Peavey stuff was incredible and about half the money of fender.
I have a few peaveys from the 80s and the one has a kahler killer on it. The old peavey stuff was great. It makes me sad it isn’t what it used to be but I’ll buy that old 80s stuff all day long when I see it.
@@REXYLAB, Me too.
@@REXYLAB yeah a couple years ago it had gotten kinda stupid what people were asking for the old USA Peavey but I think they have come back to reasonable last I checked
@@brandonjackson5865 unless you want a T-40. But those were almost free for so long that we kind of deserve to overpay for them now.
@@REXYLAB yeah they couldn’t give them away and all the old heads in the shops trying to tell us they were great but we didn’t care because they didn’t have a point on them anywhere
I have this same guitar for a couple years now.. just don't like it.. Hate the Kahler Fulcrum or traditional or whatever.. . don't like the lacquer or whatever on back of the neck all that much.... Thinking of giving it one more go by installing an 80's Kahler Killer trem on it.. It looks good, reminds me of my once upon a time 86 Kramer Baretta neck wise but with wimpier Pickups and the Kahler which blech.. I'm a FLoyd guy lol.
Funny you should say that because Gary Kahler hates this bridge too!
I as well am not a fan but I have a goal to show everyone how to set up every guitar ever made so I got this one.
However, you are 100% correct… the killer is a drop in replacement and it is an outstanding bridge! It flutters like a motherfucker and actually won awards in metallurgy because it is so ground breaking.
I work for Kahler now and I told Gary Kahler from day one I’m a fulcrum guy (the Kahler Steeler is amazing) and I love my killer equipped guitar. It flutters like Steve Vai on crack!
I will do many videos on the killer including putting one on this guitar so I hope you keep it and give it a chance.
@@REXYLAB I just bought a red killer off reverb! Gonna drop it in this weekend on my 86 which like yours is also red with black pickguard.. HSH config Jackson pups