Ace in the Hole: What we can Glean from Every Translation

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 72

  • @TheKawaiifan
    @TheKawaiifan 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +37

    my second language is Japanese. I assume this is the same in other languages, but the Japanese subtitles do not actually match the Japanese dubbing. The party where Rosie says "I know you're an ace in the hole" in English, Japanese subtitles simply say 「あなたはエース」[anata wa eesu] "You are ace". But her Japanese dialogue for that line is actually 「あなたは隠れたエースだもの」[anata wa kakureta eesu damono], "You are a hidden ace"; to which Alastor responds 「それで?」[sore de?], which can vaguely translate as things like "So?", "What is that?", "And that is?", "Pardon?", things of that energy. It doesn't exactly have a direct translation in this context. The subtitle for that line just says 「で?」[de?], which just reads like he said "huh?"
    So in Japanese we also got a double meaning. Alastor is the hidden ace, their trump card. The secret ingredient. He is the key to their success, and they will hide him from their enemies until they're ready. But in context of sexuality, what does being a hidden ace mean? Does it mean he's in the closet? If that's the interpretation, then Rosie just outed him and he's reminding her to stfu. Another reading could suggest "hidden ace" means his asexuality is hidden from him. He hasn't figured it out yet. The meaning of this phrase is hidden from him. Which is the implication in English, and makes sense given his response

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  12 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

      That is so cool that there's this way around putting both meanings in! Thank you for sharing. :)

  • @NotesFromTheVoid
    @NotesFromTheVoid 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +35

    The fact some translations translate it as "not interested in romance" is interesting, because ace as short for asexual means someone doesn't experience sexual attraction, it doesn't nessercerily mean someone is aromantic. However, Rosie in the original dub is also kindof making the same mistake, the leadup is about Charlie and Alastor dating, not having sex, so really she is saying ace but means aroace, which is technically using the word wrong, but she wouldn't be the first.

    • @uploader109
      @uploader109 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Uh, I don't think the majority of asexuals state they're aroace all the time? They can just use ace because it's a spectrum, and it's up to getting to know a person to know which one.

  • @alwyz_cynical.1
    @alwyz_cynical.1 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    Charlie’s also like 200+ years old so her “being too young” could be another reason she’d roll her eyes 😂

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      Right omg she's got like 50 years on him.

  • @Berrinthejumpy8296
    @Berrinthejumpy8296 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

    Could Charlie's eye roll be due to heteronormativity? Especially since she's openly dating a WOMAN, she's annoyed that when she's seen with a man, even one visibly far apart in age from her, someone (if ironically) immediately implies that they're a couple.

  • @MaryGen-xo6zf
    @MaryGen-xo6zf 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    5:02 as a Québécois (who doesn’t watch Hazbin hotel, I don’t know why I’m here), that is a great line

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Haha, omg, I love that you showed up just for that. :)

  • @furyking380
    @furyking380 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

    I really don't think it was intended to mean anything other than asexual. They're stylized as being from a time period where people didn't talk about sex nearly as openly as we do now, so queer people of the time euphemized it mostly for the plausible deniability. It's for that reason that I honestly feel like the Hebrew translation is one of the best of the bad translations: "wrong" isn't exactly a cool thing to call us, but neither is a lot of things we've been called. It's for that reason I feel it's better than any of the translations that focus on his skills

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      That's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered before!

  • @nuclearcatbaby1131
    @nuclearcatbaby1131 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

    In Thailand they don't seem to distinguish gender from sexuality when it comes to "toms" and "ladyboys", each of these sexualities is considered a different "gender"

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  12 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      That's so interesting!

    • @sunflwrr9
      @sunflwrr9 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Louis wain pfp!

  • @justscarletlord
    @justscarletlord 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

    In the most, well, reliable russian dub she says "Kidding, I know your an ace in a whole eye".
    This captures two of the meanings, although the "in a whole eye" part is just to rhyme it. "Ace" as a card is "tuz", ace as a master is pronounced [ɑs], and so is short for asexual (although many people wouldn't understand both of the meanings).

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  12 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      That's really interesting! I hereby promote the Russian translation to being on-par, creativity-wise, with Team Quebec.

  • @601ave
    @601ave 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    I think the Dutch translation does actually apply both meanings, it's just coming at it from a different direction. "Winner" does definitely mean "person who comes out on top" but it's ALSO the term Hazbin uses for "person who has gotten into Heaven". She's essentially calling him a pure soul with, I'm guessing, alll of the judo-christian cultural implications vis-a-vis sexuality that that would imply.

  • @connorgibes709
    @connorgibes709 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

    Not sure if this is on topic but here I go anyway: I've been learning Japanese as a hobby for a while now and i wanted to practice listening and reading while also watching Hazbin so I changed the audio and subtitles to Japanese. The wording lines up the majority of the time, but occasionally the subtitles will be a different translation than what the characters are saying. I imagine this is because different trams are doing each translation and while the dub is trying to match lip flaps at least a little, the sub is trying to be as "accurate" as possible

    • @BasicallyBaconSandvichIV
      @BasicallyBaconSandvichIV 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Tom Scot actually made a video about that shortly before his retirement!

  • @Gabrielle-bb2zq
    @Gabrielle-bb2zq 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Precisely, in French, she said "a rare gem", a really good person.

  • @thefudgems
    @thefudgems 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I always took Charlie’s “relaxed” face as “curious”. I feel like if it was relief of tension, her eyebrows would soften and she would smile. Her eyebrows went up and her little frown barely changed. I think Charlie is the audience and also doesn’t know how to take Rosie’s comment.

  • @eeveefennecfox
    @eeveefennecfox 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    too many meanings for just one word,I guess whoever thought of these meanings really loved the word and went overboard,it's so confusing,was ace someone's favorite word and they were like I want a thousand meanings of this one word,like damn,I don't think any other word has this many different meanings

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  12 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Welcome to English, haha! Double and triple meanings are one of my favorite things about how our words work.

    • @eeveefennecfox
      @eeveefennecfox 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@chloeeastwood6696 what do you mean? I've known english all my life and I still hate the fact it's still confusing for me 35 years later

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  12 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      I mean that playful ambiguity can be fun. I love literary devices and enjoy them even more when they reveal new information about a piece of work I already enjoyed. It's just that bit extra that makes the whole product that much better. Different languages are playful in different ways. It just happens that English is full of double and triple meanings.

    • @nuclearcatbaby1131
      @nuclearcatbaby1131 12 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Alastor's an ace in a number of different ways. He's not just asexual but extremely skilled at many things and was impressive even as a human - an ace serial killer for sure - and probably also an ace in the hole in the card sense too. He's definitely an ace of spades, the spades suit suits him best.

    • @eeveefennecfox
      @eeveefennecfox 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@chloeeastwood6696 oh ok,I was so confused for a moment XD thank you for clearly that up

  • @EleonorFerret-oc7zx
    @EleonorFerret-oc7zx 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    8:37 or maybe Charlie was just annoyed because she was saying that they couldn't be together cuz of age,of course that is not the case here but it could very well be,I would also be annoyed of that but eitherway viv did say that alastor is cannonly ace so the translation wouldn't capture the original meaning of the sentence eitherway

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Yeah, that's a good point! I remember seeing a lot of posts a few years ago calling people out on their ageism, like, "he's my HUSBAND, not my dad!"

  • @VARK_Voxtechshark
    @VARK_Voxtechshark 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Whats funny is that Charlie is canonically like 200 something years old and I think Al is like 40- 50 😂😂😂

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Omg right? She has 50 years on him, even after all his time in Hell!

    • @leephillips4402
      @leephillips4402 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      You mean he was that old when he died?

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @leephillips4402 that's what people say. He's been dead for around 90 years...

    • @leephillips4402
      @leephillips4402 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @chloeeastwood6696 it's weird to think two people in Hell could have been born the same year but if one died old and the other died young it's seen as inappropriate. I guess that's Husk and Angel Dusts deal.

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Oh, the show Ghosts actually goes into this, too!

  • @PurpleAmharicCoffee
    @PurpleAmharicCoffee 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    At least Italy has garlic bread.

  • @Eficiente_VSB
    @Eficiente_VSB 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    In my head, outside of America we all watch American shows & movies in English with subs.
    Fun stuff still.

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Oh, yeah, lots of folks around the world watch American media translated into their own languages. One thing I personally think is kind of funny is how they categorize our media. For example, in Taiwan there's a Netflix category called "Dysfunctional Western Family Dramas." And like, I feel that.

  • @Blazingstudios882
    @Blazingstudios882 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    To be fair Charlie is lesbian, and Alister is male, so she wouldn’t like the idea of people thinking they’re dating regardless of his sexuality.

  • @cattievogelsong96
    @cattievogelsong96 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    I appreciate your boldness to open this can of worms. Also well done sifting through all the subtleties. Personally i lose my patience real fast reading subtitles so i rely on others to report back.
    As for the topic. I have gone back in forth with people both on line and in person. I’m afraid my opinion is very middle of the road.
    I agree that the line is textual proof that Alistor is asexual. I agree that it is fair that people missed this. It is very blink and you will miss it. Alistor doesn’t seem to register either meaning. And then on to something else.
    Also the line delivery. I am sure it is the directing. The way the words are emphasized…. Or the speech pattern of syllables…. I don’t know. I have been trying for months to come up with a way to describe what is wrong with it. It just feels forced. Like she is shouting the whole thing so no one can miss a single word. It doesn’t feel like comfortable and playful ribbing of an old friend. Anyone else?
    The other thing is i agree with others asking for Alistors asexuality to be explored. As stated his behavior doesn’t mark him as particularly different from the rest of the case. He doesn’t like sexual advances and he has some characters he shows physical affection for like mimsy.
    The journey of him figuring it out could be really interesting to watch. On the other hand the show is constantly horny so there are a lot of ways this could go badly. I hope madrano has people in the asexual community giving her writing advice.
    You can tell me if i come off as too salty from the Manmon reveal.
    Also there are the radio apple shippers who are the new Zutara shippers and i mean that in the most exasperated way possible.
    In conclusion…… 🫠

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  12 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I could see it perhaps becoming a part of his backstory. Maybe he was engaged but didn't think he could give her what she wants. However, it would have to be done carefully to keep up with the fast pace of the show. For better or worse, Medrano has a VERY concise writing style.

    • @cattievogelsong96
      @cattievogelsong96 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@chloeeastwood6696i have no idea what to do with your comment…..
      A different youtuber suggested that maybe a character like angle dust could play the role of mentor to Alistor in the field of sexuality. And this could be looped in with Angle’s character arc. Showing how much he has grown by offering advice to someone else. Someone who he has had a mixed relationship with. Both making aggressive sexual advances, being afraid of alistor and ignoring him.
      Somewhere it has been said that madrano pictured him as the type of asexual who doesn’t know this about himself. She said he still thinks he hasn’t found the right person.
      It could be a couple of quick moments of build up. You are right we don’t have a tun of time. Angle dust has been doing better with all of his issues and Alistor looks around him and sees several happy couples. Maybe including husker someone he sees as lesser. And is like “i have been a round for a while how have i not found the one?” And or if Alistor does something to take Valentino down a peg and asks angle “what is the appeal of sex?” And Angle could put the pieces together like Rosie has and tell him it is okay if you are not sexually attracted to any one.
      I feel like there is a way to do it that is part of a different subplot.

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  12 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Oh, I think I've actually seen the video you're talking about! It blew up pretty immediately after the show aired, if I'm not mistaken. A classic!

    • @cattievogelsong96
      @cattievogelsong96 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @ like most of your videos aren’t classics in the making 😜

  • @sircofenix5600
    @sircofenix5600 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thats so wierd, most people in The Czech Republic know what an ace person is, and you could call a valuable asset/person an "ace in your sleeve" (eso v rukávu) in czech. Shame the dabbing team couldn't think of a pun. :(

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Oh no! Some people have brought up lip-flaps as a potential stumbling block, and others say that the dubs might be different from what's in the subs. There's still hope!

  • @Yellowbeing08
    @Yellowbeing08 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I knew the vid idea was sparked by the italian translation right away, when I found out that was the way it was translated I got so triggered (I'm italian but watched it in english to avoid this thpe of mistranslations)

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      That's very fair. I've heard that a lot of folks default to the original language, and in a show so full of word play, or makes a lot of sense.

  • @danielmalinen6337
    @danielmalinen6337 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    As far as I know, there is no official Finnish translation dub, but if there was, it would probably translate something like this: "Don't take it seriously (or; Don't be offended), I know you're not that kind of person." and Alistair would respond, "Kind of what?" The reason is that a similar joke or even a direct translation would not fit into a sentence translated into Finnish, which why it needs trimming and then unfortunately the direct reference to asexuality would be lost but instead would create the assumption that Alistair is a person who doesn't date.

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Yeah, it's so hard to get it all in!

  • @SwanHild-1996
    @SwanHild-1996 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    (part one)
    … okay, I already tried posting this comment but it got deleted. I’m not sure if I broke a character limit or if TH-cam is just that terrified of the word s*x but I’ll try again with a bit more splitting for length and precautionary self-censorship. \O/
    Anyway, I really enjoy your videos and how you always try to see things from different perspectives. Here, however, I think I might be able to offer a new one, as well as a bit of context. Context I got from watching interviews with the Hazbin Hotel Italian dub cast, but also from a bit of speculation on my part, connecting the dots between what they were saying and what I had seen watching the series. Now, first things first, two facts to consider.
    One: as*xuality is not very well known in Italy. If you aren’t at least relatively young and know your way around online spaces where it may be discussed, you aren’t likely to be aware of it at all. As*xual people call themselves as*ssuali, but there isn’t even an equivalent term to ace, so they just use the English word for that.
    Two: the Hazbin Hotel Italian dub has two dubbing directors, working closely together to adapt both the dialogues and songs. One is Oreste Baldini, in his 60s, famously a bit of an “eccentric and little reclusive artist” type. The other is Rossa Caputo, in her early 30s, a long-time Vivziepop fan with strong opinions on topics under the “social justice” umbrella who’s been very active in promoting the show online. Just from these descriptions, you can probably imagine which one of them knew about Alastor being ace in advance and which one had the double meaning of “ace” here completely fly over his head.
    When they got to this scene, Oreste reportedly tried finding ways to make the scene funnier in translation, likely because he could see there was supposed to be some kind of pun or witty joke in it but only got the more surface level angle of the humor, which must have seemed not really that funny or clever to him. That’s why he proposed having Alastor reacting with smugness rather than confusion to Rosie’s words, almost suggesting they were doing a bit together. Rossa immediately shot that down, and explained what had been said about Alastor’s s*xuality outside the series itself and why that aspect needed to be kept in. Oreste realized she was better equipped to handle the adaptation of that particular exchange and stepped aside, giving her carte blanche.
    However, that still left Rossa with a series of problems to consider. A pun using the word “ace” would not work in any way in Italian, while simply having Rosie say “you’re as*xual” would strip her line of all additional meaning, turning it plain and simple and having as*xuality itself be the punchline of the joke. Plus, would Rosie, Alastor’s friend and ally, actually say that to Alastor’s face, not to mention right in front of another character, when Vivziepop had also previously said that Alastor himself wasn’t really aware of or able to put his s*xuality into words?

    • @SwanHild-1996
      @SwanHild-1996 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      (part two/end)
      That last consideration actually led her to believe that the double meaning of the line was in itself twofold: in-universe, Rosie was addressing the “you always have a trump card up your sleeve (so you wouldn’t be hanging out with a much younger woman for a goal as cheap and uncomplicated as getting in her pants),” while in a meta sense, Vivziepop and her crew were winking at the fans who’d followed the development of Hazbin Hotel and its characters through the years. But how to convey anything like that layered humor? And without committing the translator’s sin of beating the target language completely out of shape to make the original line fit in?
      The solution eventually chosen was to veer starkly in the opposite direction to the original: have Rosie be comically, patently wrong rather than accidentally right, doubling down on the s*xual angle and making it more explicit so as to also make Alastor’s utter confusion and puzzlement at the suggested association between him and s*x even more noticeable.
      In addition to all that, this actually allowed for the “trump card” double meaning, or something very similar to it, to be kept. The reason I don’t put too much trust in fansubs made by people who don’t know the native language, personally, is that they often miss out on nuances and wordplay, and imo that seems to be what’s happened here: leaving aside the fact that the translation you used is in general kind of rough, the expression Rosie uses in Italian is “metterlo in buca.” Which, yes, does literally mean “put it in the hole.” And yes, it does carry a clear s*xual connotation in this specific case. But the context you’re most likely to see it used in is that of games like golf and pool, as it more specifically carries the idea of “hitting the ball into a hole to gain points.” So, effectively, when Rosie says “I suppose you can still hit it into a hole,” she’s saying that he can still “score”... leaving it up in the air if she’s talking about s*x or if she’s implying Alastor, despite his age, is still capable of achieving his goals, whatever those may be.
      I do agree that Charlie’s expressions through all of this end up looking out of synch, for lack of a better term, with the dialogue. Then again, in Italian, Rosie also says “this one” is too young for Alastor when talking about her, possibly implying that she looks like pretty-but-useless “arm candy.” Being dismissed and undervalued is something Charlie does struggle with through the whole series, so that may conceivably ruffle her feathers until she realizes Rosie doesn’t actually mean any of that, she’s just saying whatever to tease Alastor. I know that's stretching things a bit thin, but eh.

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Okay, I'm so grateful that you've taken the time to share all this. Thank you, it's amazing. I'm also very impressed by your resolve to type it out twice. That's an incredible story! And it's interesting that it got bent so out of shape that it ended up being faithful again, especially to the multiple meanings. What an elegant twist that translating back to English meant losing the carefully crafted Italian jokes!

    • @SwanHild-1996
      @SwanHild-1996 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@chloeeastwood6696 Honestly, I should probably be thanking you for not being daunted by the length of this, lol. I dabble in translation, too, even if in much smaller, freelance projects, and I find it an incredibly fascinating subject, along with related topics like adaptation and localization. Which is why getting to hear about how the Italian dub crew has been going about things for this beautiful series I love so much has been especially fun! As for typing it all out twice... heh, at least that taught me to wait before deleting my draft, this time around!

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @SwanHild-1996 It's a fascinating topic, and I think it’s cool as all get out when someone loves their work so much. Do you work with Italian and English, too?

    • @SwanHild-1996
      @SwanHild-1996 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@chloeeastwood6696 Yep! I have a bit of a side gig translating indie novels from English into Italian. The language in the ones I work on is usually pretty straightforward, so as to be accessible to and easily digestible by a (hopefully) relatively large audience looking for a quick read to relax with, which makes things easier for the most part... but sometimes, I also run into the odd bit of tricky wordplay that's hard to translate in a way that both makes sense and sounds natural. ;)

  • @Barakon
    @Barakon 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Can I hear the hebrew dub? I know the language & wanna know if it really does translate to "I know you're wrong."

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I don't know if the dub says that--I actually only speak English and was using the subtitles, not the dub. My method was translating the subtitles back into English using the Google Translate app. Full disclosure: There were other languages that didn't get translated properly, using that app. For example, the Traditional Chinese translated to "I know you're cold and cold," so I had to ask my cousin, who reads and speaks Chinese, to translate for me.
      Also, I'm hearing from others that the dub and sub don't always line up perfectly, sometimes by design, so I would be at a total loss, there.
      If you listen to it in Hebrew and have a different takeaway, I would be VERY interested to hear about it and I hope you let me know what you find out.

  • @disneymaniaish
    @disneymaniaish 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    HI team Italian here XDXD i'm happy you like theitalian dub so much eheheh

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  12 วันที่ผ่านมา

      It's just so interesting to see how it turned out in so many languages!

  • @Fizzlepop72
    @Fizzlepop72 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    That hebrew translation is very concerning...

    • @chloeeastwood6696
      @chloeeastwood6696  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yeah, someone else commented that they speak Hebrew, so they're checking it out and we'll know more when they get back to us

  • @shadow_kitten3784
    @shadow_kitten3784 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    i am pretty sure it is canon that Alastor is Asexual and Aromantic.