This is exactly what I've chosen to do... ignoring why it never worked for me. I've decided to experiment again and again. And, as for everything: the more you practice, the more you improve your skills. Thank you for "this release of guilt" about not using a "so important" color wheel.
Chris, I found you today and have watched a few of your videos on colour mixing, I'm thrilled at your care, explanations and hard work creating exciting and teaching moments. I'm not a tik toc person therefore I'll catch you on TH-cam. Thank you. I've subscribed!
i liked the experiment, so i was wondering if you could you try mixing with colors from the CMY color wheel instead of the RYB one to see how accurate it is compared to the RYB color wheel?
🤔 Do you think CMY is better or RYB ? And what model are you using? I personally use CMY, because in RYB it is impossible to make magenta and cyan and green, greenish black is only obtained by mixing azure-blue and yellow . . .
I kind of use both. I mainly think of color in terms of CMY but I add red to my palette for the opacity. I also use other pigments like cadmium orange because it’s more vivid than what you can mix. As you mentioned, if you only use RYB, you’ll be missing magenta and cyan and will have trouble mixing certain colors.
Le tue argomentazioni sulla mescolanza dei colori è molto interessante, complimenti, fondamentale conoscere per potersi approcciare adeguatamente alla pittura, un argomento spesso non spiegato in modo soddisfacente cosi come molti pittori non trasmettano in modo chiaro e semplice la capacità procedurale o tecnica di saper mescolare i colori per poter giungere al colore preferito sia in natura che da una foto. Chiedo se è possibile avere le spiegazioni in italiano della ruota dei colori..grazie di tutto
Would you say that the standard color wheel is how the mind sees the relationship of colors and the CMY color wheel is good for mixing? But how about the complimentary colors on the CMY wheel? What about color theory?
I think the standard color wheel was just inaccurate, but for whatever reason it’s still taught in schools even though the results aren’t so great as I show in the video. As I say in the video, the complementary colors are a little different on the CMY color wheel because it has magenta as a primary color so it shifts the position of the colors. The exact complementary colors are easier to define when using the RGB color model on a computer because they can be figured out with math, and they create gray when mixed together. It’s not so straightforward with pigments. I’m not sure what specifically you’re asking about color theory but I think that any insight that helps to make color mixing predictable and produces good results is what color theory is all about.
We paint to depict the lights we see bouncing off of surfaces. RGB *IS* is the correct color wheel, the problem lies with quality of paint to mix with one another.
But mixing red and blue still didn't give you magenta as seen on the CMYK wheel, so why is that any better? The only thing I can think is that you did get magenta but via the shortest route possible on the wheel which would be a very gray magenta.
That's right-you can't mix magenta because it's a primary color. The traditional color wheel has red as the primary color which is why the color wheel doesn't seem to work as a color mixing guide. Here's my color theory in under a minute video that might help th-cam.com/video/IsoKgnh9jUY/w-d-xo.html
I've been using color wheels for over 50 years, and it never once occurred to use them for mixing colors. Also, the "generic" names on the wheel refer to warmness and coolness, which is all you need for accurate color mixing.
The issue with the color names is they don't correlate with artists paints. There's many blue pigments available: ultramarine, phthalo (red shade/blue shade), cerulean, and Prussian blue.
1 - Many "browns" are a form of purple. 2 - you get browns because of the colors you are choosing to start with (and mixing before combining). Warmer primaries (rather than cooler primaries - or warms that are mixed to cools.... adding white and black actually cool a color) will produce the purple you are looking for. Cooler primaries (you added white) will lean to brown - and very cool primaries will produce clearly brown colors. Try ultra marine blue and cadmium red - you will get your purples. Remember colors from you tubes are not pure colors. These are mixtures.
Cadmium red and ultramarine still creates a dull purple. Here's a video where I mix purple from different reds. Quinacridone magenta and ultramarine looks similar to dioxazine purple, all of the other mixtures made from red are duller th-cam.com/video/IsoKgnh9jUY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=i9VKtnmvSGRzAKQZ
For those who would like to know more about this, reading Michael Wilcox's "Blue and Yellow Don't Make Green, 2nd ed." will give you scientific insight as to how light waves behave once they encounter the paint film. Wilcox, as far as I know, is the first person to point out that the three primaries themselves are never pure but have a leaning, or "bias," towards a secondary. This means that all reds lean toward either violet or orange, yellows toward orange or green, blues toward green or violet. So we really ought to think of the painter's color wheel in terms of six primaries, not three. Understanding this will unlock color mixing, and it also encourages us to think about temperature when choosing which primary to work with in any given instance.
I've heard of his book, I haven't read it yet though...I'll have to put it on my reading list. The point of my video is the main problem with red isn't the color bias, but that magenta is the real primary color. In another video I tried mixing purple from 6 different reds and none of them created a purple as vibrant as the magenta which looked similar to Dioxazine Purple. Here's the video th-cam.com/video/IsoKgnh9jUY/w-d-xo.html
I really wish experts would settle on whether Cyan is Blue or not it would be so much easier. I've seen Cyan referred to as Blue and what we call "Blue" referred to as "Indigo" before. Indigo used to be considered a color of the Rainbow before it was decided it was actually just Blue. I've also seen Blue-Violet called "Indigo" like Nintendo's Gamecube.
The problem is that your eye is capable of seeing millions of colors but most people have about dozen color names memorized. The Pantone system uses numbers instead of names (with a few exceptions such as Reflex blue etc). And there are thousands of colors in the Pantone system. In painting, most of the colors are named after the pigments there made from, or they're named after people and places. None of it is really standardized....which can be confusing.
@@ChrisBreier It's more me gripping about how people can't make up their minds on whether Cyan and Indigo are distinct colors or just different shades of Blue. Red/Magenta and Green/Yellow don't have this problem only Cyan, Indigo and Blue.
This confused me so much as a kid. I didn't think my teachers could be wrong about color theory. Eventually though I did just come to the conclusion that they were wrong. I'm sure a lot of kids are confused about the way that they're taught color and how it conflicts with their experience.
I think it's a case of teachers and authors just repeating what they've been taught. It's weird that in printing and graphic design they teach CMYK but painting is still RYB.
I don't think there is any question that a solid foundation in color theory is far more valuable than any of the "information" printed on the color wheels, but the problem with trying to compare the two wheels is a bit like comparing apples and oranges.
Apples and oranges is a way to say a comparison is invalid because they’re two completely different things. But both color wheels aim to do the same thing- define the primary colors and demonstrate how they interact with each other. The CMY color wheel is closer to achieving this goal than the RYB wheel. 🙂🎨
Many colors are bias. The primary blue is cobalt blue. Many companies use double primary wheels. Read the book Yellow and Blue don't make green. They are not making the color wheel correct. You are right.
look at one thing there wasnt any magenta like dye avaible for painters up untill mid 1800s when magenta was synthesised and names after battle of magenta in 1859 and only violet dye avaible was very pricy
I Googled it and I guess Winsor & Newton was the first brand to offer Quinacridone Magenta as a paint for artists in 1958. The theory for CMYK has been around since the 1800s. I just find it interesting that art instruction books still teach RYB.
I never considered painters regarding the color wheel, great to add that in. My problem with the color wheel is that it is, in my opinion, a pop-science oversimplification. It just cannot work, because it is too simplimistic to think you can grab a couple of colors that by axiom we take as complimentary and then we extrapolate _every other color_ on a 360 degrees wheel. And then the color wheel suggests that every 180 degrees would work the same as it works as the green and red complimentary colors. It is then a false promise, because unless you really mute your inner voice, you will always adjust the "mathematically" calculated color combinations to your liking, to where they should really be.
When it comes to mixing colors with pigments, you're right....there's no set of 3 colors that will mix every color that you need. You can use those colors as a limited palette to make a painting but the idea that you can mix a wide range of vivid colors from just 3 colors is a fallacy. Even the printing industry relies on spot colors for creating colors that are more vivid that what you can achieve from CMYK. This is similar to painting where you can mix orange from red and yellow, but cadmium orange is still more vivid. The only color model that seems to work logically and with precision is the RGB color model. Even the complementary colors can be determined with a mathematical formula which is how software like Adobe Illustrator calculates complementary colors.
Yes and this color wheel isn’t meant to be taking as a visual literal example, only as one to be used in theory. To add to this, it’s a known fact that printing errors where colors can be off can throw off color theory. A warm red would not produce a violet color when added to blue since a warmer red has yellow in it and when adding red, blue and yellow together, it WILL make for a more brown color.
Ok, maybe I will look harsh here but really, if you are looking at a color wheel to know how to mix your colors you are a long way from the solution you need! The wheel is not meant for color mixing but color relationship. Though I am really starting on my art path, this I understood right from the start. Color mixing is a completely different concept and depends on so many variables that no color wheels in the world will describe it correctly... warm colors, cool colors and the way they interact should be the subject of a completely different vidéo. Sorry.
A lot of teachers use it to teach color mixing though. I'm glad you caught on immediately but it's still being taught as a color mixing tool. I'm not surprised if a person is confused about it's purpose.
I don't like to waste paint either. Funny you should mention this because I just posted a short where I clean this palette and save the paint from this video. th-cam.com/users/shortsQTPI0_f4aVI?si=xOtbtZoOTut5Q604
This is exactly what I've chosen to do... ignoring why it never worked for me.
I've decided to experiment again and again. And, as for everything: the more you practice, the more you improve your skills.
Thank you for "this release of guilt" about not using a "so important" color wheel.
Chris, I found you today and have watched a few of your videos on colour mixing, I'm thrilled at your care, explanations and hard work creating exciting and teaching moments. I'm not a tik toc person therefore I'll catch you on TH-cam. Thank you. I've subscribed!
This is crazy. Once I figured out that I needed magenta to make colors I wanted my world changed.
Me too!!! 😳🤓
Great video, thanks for your content you make for us artists and teachers
Thank you for saving me the time and trouble. I was about to order the larger colour wheel from Amazon
i liked the experiment, so i was wondering if you could you try mixing with colors from the CMY color wheel instead of the RYB one to see how accurate it is compared to the RYB color wheel?
Phthalo blue, quinacridone magenta, and hansa yellow (or any other transparent yellow) are basically CMY. 🙂
🤔 Do you think CMY is better or RYB ? And what model are you using? I personally use CMY, because in RYB it is impossible to make magenta and cyan and green, greenish black is only obtained by mixing azure-blue and yellow . . .
I kind of use both. I mainly think of color in terms of CMY but I add red to my palette for the opacity. I also use other pigments like cadmium orange because it’s more vivid than what you can mix. As you mentioned, if you only use RYB, you’ll be missing magenta and cyan and will have trouble mixing certain colors.
Omg it was so useful to know i am now in the beginning of learning painting. How much frustration spared, thank you so much!❤️
Le tue argomentazioni sulla mescolanza dei colori è molto interessante, complimenti, fondamentale conoscere per potersi approcciare adeguatamente alla pittura, un argomento spesso non spiegato in modo soddisfacente cosi come molti pittori non trasmettano in modo chiaro e semplice la capacità procedurale o tecnica di saper mescolare i colori per poter giungere al colore preferito sia in natura che da una foto. Chiedo se è possibile avere le spiegazioni in italiano della ruota dei colori..grazie di tutto
Thanks! I'm looking into how to add subtitles in different languages. 🙂
@@ChrisBreier un ottima idea, grazie mille..purtroppo non conosco l'inglese, per capirci qualcosa utilizzo il traduttore google
Would you say that the standard color wheel is how the mind sees the relationship of colors and the CMY color wheel is good for mixing? But how about the complimentary colors on the CMY wheel? What about color theory?
I think the standard color wheel was just inaccurate, but for whatever reason it’s still taught in schools even though the results aren’t so great as I show in the video. As I say in the video, the complementary colors are a little different on the CMY color wheel because it has magenta as a primary color so it shifts the position of the colors. The exact complementary colors are easier to define when using the RGB color model on a computer because they can be figured out with math, and they create gray when mixed together. It’s not so straightforward with pigments. I’m not sure what specifically you’re asking about color theory but I think that any insight that helps to make color mixing predictable and produces good results is what color theory is all about.
We paint to depict the lights we see bouncing off of surfaces. RGB *IS* is the correct color wheel, the problem lies with quality of paint to mix with one another.
Do you mean RYB instead of RGB? Because RGB is for light and doesn't work with paints.
But mixing red and blue still didn't give you magenta as seen on the CMYK wheel, so why is that any better? The only thing I can think is that you did get magenta but via the shortest route possible on the wheel which would be a very gray magenta.
That's right-you can't mix magenta because it's a primary color. The traditional color wheel has red as the primary color which is why the color wheel doesn't seem to work as a color mixing guide. Here's my color theory in under a minute video that might help th-cam.com/video/IsoKgnh9jUY/w-d-xo.html
I've been using color wheels for over 50 years, and it never once occurred to use them for mixing colors. Also, the "generic" names on the wheel refer to warmness and coolness, which is all you need for accurate color mixing.
The issue with the color names is they don't correlate with artists paints. There's many blue pigments available: ultramarine, phthalo (red shade/blue shade), cerulean, and Prussian blue.
1 - Many "browns" are a form of purple.
2 - you get browns because of the colors you are choosing to start with (and mixing before combining). Warmer primaries (rather than cooler primaries - or warms that are mixed to cools.... adding white and black actually cool a color) will produce the purple you are looking for. Cooler primaries (you added white) will lean to brown - and very cool primaries will produce clearly brown colors.
Try ultra marine blue and cadmium red - you will get your purples.
Remember colors from you tubes are not pure colors. These are mixtures.
Cadmium red and ultramarine still creates a dull purple. Here's a video where I mix purple from different reds. Quinacridone magenta and ultramarine looks similar to dioxazine purple, all of the other mixtures made from red are duller th-cam.com/video/IsoKgnh9jUY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=i9VKtnmvSGRzAKQZ
For those who would like to know more about this, reading Michael Wilcox's "Blue and Yellow Don't Make Green, 2nd ed." will give you scientific insight as to how light waves behave once they encounter the paint film. Wilcox, as far as I know, is the first person to point out that the three primaries themselves are never pure but have a leaning, or "bias," towards a secondary. This means that all reds lean toward either violet or orange, yellows toward orange or green, blues toward green or violet. So we really ought to think of the painter's color wheel in terms of six primaries, not three. Understanding this will unlock color mixing, and it also encourages us to think about temperature when choosing which primary to work with in any given instance.
I've heard of his book, I haven't read it yet though...I'll have to put it on my reading list. The point of my video is the main problem with red isn't the color bias, but that magenta is the real primary color. In another video I tried mixing purple from 6 different reds and none of them created a purple as vibrant as the magenta which looked similar to Dioxazine Purple. Here's the video th-cam.com/video/IsoKgnh9jUY/w-d-xo.html
I really wish experts would settle on whether Cyan is Blue or not it would be so much easier.
I've seen Cyan referred to as Blue and what we call "Blue" referred to as "Indigo" before.
Indigo used to be considered a color of the Rainbow before it was decided it was actually just Blue.
I've also seen Blue-Violet called "Indigo" like Nintendo's Gamecube.
The problem is that your eye is capable of seeing millions of colors but most people have about dozen color names memorized. The Pantone system uses numbers instead of names (with a few exceptions such as Reflex blue etc). And there are thousands of colors in the Pantone system. In painting, most of the colors are named after the pigments there made from, or they're named after people and places. None of it is really standardized....which can be confusing.
@@ChrisBreier It's more me gripping about how people can't make up their minds on whether Cyan and Indigo are distinct colors or just different shades of Blue.
Red/Magenta and Green/Yellow don't have this problem only Cyan, Indigo and Blue.
This confused me so much as a kid. I didn't think my teachers could be wrong about color theory. Eventually though I did just come to the conclusion that they were wrong. I'm sure a lot of kids are confused about the way that they're taught color and how it conflicts with their experience.
I think it's a case of teachers and authors just repeating what they've been taught. It's weird that in printing and graphic design they teach CMYK but painting is still RYB.
I don't think there is any question that a solid foundation in color theory is far more valuable than any of the "information" printed on the color wheels, but the problem with trying to compare the two wheels is a bit like comparing apples and oranges.
Apples and oranges is a way to say a comparison is invalid because they’re two completely different things. But both color wheels aim to do the same thing- define the primary colors and demonstrate how they interact with each other. The CMY color wheel is closer to achieving this goal than the RYB wheel. 🙂🎨
Many colors are bias. The primary blue is cobalt blue. Many companies use double primary wheels. Read the book Yellow and Blue don't make green. They are not making the color wheel correct. You are right.
look at one thing there wasnt any magenta like dye avaible for painters up untill mid 1800s when magenta was synthesised and names after battle of magenta in 1859 and only violet dye avaible was very pricy
I Googled it and I guess Winsor & Newton was the first brand to offer Quinacridone Magenta as a paint for artists in 1958. The theory for CMYK has been around since the 1800s. I just find it interesting that art instruction books still teach RYB.
I never considered painters regarding the color wheel, great to add that in. My problem with the color wheel is that it is, in my opinion, a pop-science oversimplification. It just cannot work, because it is too simplimistic to think you can grab a couple of colors that by axiom we take as complimentary and then we extrapolate _every other color_ on a 360 degrees wheel. And then the color wheel suggests that every 180 degrees would work the same as it works as the green and red complimentary colors. It is then a false promise, because unless you really mute your inner voice, you will always adjust the "mathematically" calculated color combinations to your liking, to where they should really be.
When it comes to mixing colors with pigments, you're right....there's no set of 3 colors that will mix every color that you need. You can use those colors as a limited palette to make a painting but the idea that you can mix a wide range of vivid colors from just 3 colors is a fallacy. Even the printing industry relies on spot colors for creating colors that are more vivid that what you can achieve from CMYK. This is similar to painting where you can mix orange from red and yellow, but cadmium orange is still more vivid. The only color model that seems to work logically and with precision is the RGB color model. Even the complementary colors can be determined with a mathematical formula which is how software like Adobe Illustrator calculates complementary colors.
So basically don't use any wheels for mixing colors. You should create your own wheel that works!
I thought the CMY was more useful than the RYB. 🙂
you can't use a warm red to make purple it have to be a regular red are cool red
"Cool red" = magenta 🙂
Hope that helps
Yes and this color wheel isn’t meant to be taking as a visual literal example, only as one to be used in theory.
To add to this, it’s a known fact that printing errors where colors can be off can throw off color theory.
A warm red would not produce a violet color when added to blue since a warmer red has yellow in it and when adding red, blue and yellow together, it WILL make for a more brown color.
Ok, maybe I will look harsh here but really, if you are looking at a color wheel to know how to mix your colors you are a long way from the solution you need! The wheel is not meant for color mixing but color relationship. Though I am really starting on my art path, this I understood right from the start. Color mixing is a completely different concept and depends on so many variables that no color wheels in the world will describe it correctly... warm colors, cool colors and the way they interact should be the subject of a completely different vidéo. Sorry.
It says right on the color wheel “A guide to mixing color.” 🙂
A lot of teachers use it to teach color mixing though. I'm glad you caught on immediately but it's still being taught as a color mixing tool. I'm not surprised if a person is confused about it's purpose.
It was painful watching the color mixing. All that wasted paint.
I don't like to waste paint either. Funny you should mention this because I just posted a short where I clean this palette and save the paint from this video. th-cam.com/users/shortsQTPI0_f4aVI?si=xOtbtZoOTut5Q604