For the front grip on corners, instead of putting more weight in front, try to lower one spacer the stem. Same result without changing your body position more forward. Had the same thing when I first try the Sentinel, and after I lowered the stem, it handled the corners like a 65 degree HA bike. Try that and let us know the results. Cheers 🍺🍺
New Spire owner here: Similar observations... the Spire is like a fighter jet that goes into afterburner mode if you go into an aggressive/attack stance. And by doing that, totally destroyed all prior PRs going down (I'm just an average rider).
I would highly recommend putting the spire in the steep position. I test road a spire in Bellingham in the steep position and it was amazing, definitely my next bike. Riding it in the steep position I had no issues whatsoever with maintaing front end traction. Also, from talking with many spire riders, most prefer the bike that way. Edit: after thinking about it a bit more, I did notice that the bike performed the best when I was centered over the bottom bracket almost at all times, so that might be the same thing that you're feeling with the front end.
I totally agree with this statement. I ride my Spire in the steep position all the time. 63 is still plenty steep and it keeps the front end more weighted. Beacon Hill is no where steep enough to warrant riding in the slack position. Flip to slack for bike park days - but for climbing and everyday riding steep is where it's at!
Your videos are so expertly made. You describe bike dynamics so well and the rest of the narration in the video is amazing. great editing, captions, video flows well. Just all around great job man, Love your stuff!
Lots of variables to account for, but on the first trail your riding looked a bit cleaner on the spire (even with the front end slide on that turn). Great video!
Would love to see a 3 way comparison with the Patrol as well. I got a chance to ride the new Commencal mullet bike (Meta SX) and it was crazy agile for an enduro bike, absolutely shredded corners and was super poppy, just had the standard Commencal problem of pedaling like crap on the climbs.
I really like the sound of the Transition Relay and am hoping to get one next year so I'll be thrilled if it rides like a Spire with assist I can turn off whenever
As always love your content and just your genuine style and steez. After this comparison with what you noted about the spire front end traction, climb etc. would be a cool video to anti-shredist tune the spire - make all the setting the opposite of your preferences (less slack, maybe go other end of the sag settings) and get some feedback how it changes the handling, maybe you will be surprised (probs not - we like what we like due to experience)
I love the comparison! I hammer my 2020 sentinel on mostly technical dh and mix in a little trail and it’s handled everything with ease. Good to know if I want to bridge the gap between the sentinel and a dh bike (not that I even ride my dh bike at parks anymore or think I need anything bigger) the spire is a good pick.
I’m trying to buy a sentinel used right now and this was reassuring since my local trails aren’t too gnarly but I like to ride a lot of park in the summer
i demoed both bike and ended up with a sentinal for its climbing and nimbleness, i threw a cush core in the rear and now it bombs almost as fast as a spire on the down
Went from an XL sentinel to a L spire per Transition rec. I was way more stoked on how the L handled after I demoed the XL spire as the L spire’s wheelbase was actually slightly shorter than the XL sentinel.
I've experimented with longer/bigger bikes and found that after a certain point I lost more than I gained. I've since moved back down to shorter frames [still long compared to what I used to ride] and less suspension. My motto these days is "More shred! Less sled!" It doesn't hold me back at all since feeling more confident and in control of the bike means I can tackle just as hard lines as the bigger bike. One nice thing is the smaller bike remains fun on less demanding trails. It's also interesting to see a number of EWS racers size down on their frames to get more performance out of their bikes when seconds matter. So longer/bigger is not equal to faster or more capable.
Even a lot of the EWS bikes aren't running 62 or even 63 HTAs. The top 3 last season were all on bikes with 64-65 HTAs with Rude and Moir only having 150mm rear travel. The EWS Ripmos were running around 64.4 HTA as all 3 Ibis team bikes ran 170mm up front but still only 147mm out back and the team bikes were not cascade linked, and all 3 riders were consistently top 10 the whole season with Barona winning a round.
I’m wondering if a shorter or longer stem could help resolve the front end weight issue. With a longer stem it pushes the body forward so it should do the trick imo. But on the other hand everyone else swears it’s the other way around.
I'm torn between the Sentinel and the Stumpy Evo, which seems to be a bit more conservative (higher stack, steeper HT angle). Guess both would be a good choice.
The Sentinel almost certainly pedals better, the EVO is typical FSR, you NEED the lockout on the climbs and pedal striking during sprints is a thing you need to watch out for. The Evo definitely feels like a trail bike, you sit on top of the bike, I've heard the Sentinel feels more like an enduro bike i.e. you're down in the bike more and just monster trucks a little better. The Sentinel is also often compared to the Ripmo, which also feels like an enduro bike, but is probably the best pedaling 150 travel bike out there though might be a hair more chattery on tech due to the DW link.
What did you buy? I am facing the same question as you. Found out today that Transition’s EWS/EDR guys are on Patrols (and not Spire’s) which surprised me - and that of the two Specialized racers one is on an Enduro and the other is on a Stumpjumper Evo
Funny, I have been thinking about getting one of these for a while. I have a Transition Smuggler at the moment, which I love, but with more frequent visits to bike parks, I'm kinda wanting something with a little more travel. So the question is, sell the Smuggler and get a well specced Sentinel, or keep the Smuggler and add a Spire to the collection?
Depends if you want multiple bikes. I will say fitting two bikes with all your choice of goodies and tires gets more spendy to maintain. If thats not an issue, the spire would be a great compliment to a short travel bike.
@@TheShredist Very true. Thanks for the input! It is very tempting to have multiple bikes, so at least one is in working condition at a given time, although the cost is definitely a factor. And also, with two bikes it's easier to lure friends into mountain biking :D
you could always get a carbon Sentinel if you want a do it all bike. my alloy sentinel is more than capable on everything, leaving no trail feeling too boring, nor any descent out of my capabilities. the bike has a habit of working incredibly well on any terrain you place it in.
I switched my Sentinel from the 40mm stem to a 50mm and instantly felt the difference so I’m sure it would be a big help on the Spire. Originally switched it to 50 because that’s what I have on my Transition TR11.
I just picked up the carbon GX spire. I love the bike. However, I favor coil over air. Would it be worth the money to get a coil setup for this bike? Thanks!
@@TheShredist I think the stock deluxe is an amazing option as well. I just love coil consistency and service intervals. Thanks for the reply. Great video too btw!
Both are excellent bikes. The tough part is being honest about how steep your local trails are. The steeper the trail the better that slack geometry works. I wish I could have both a Spire and a Spur!
I think you'd have to live in sqamish to really want a 62 degree HTA or race world cup DH. I've ridden some of the steepest trails in Colorado and have never felt the 64.9 HTA on my Ripmo wasn't slack enough.
The Carbon Spire is definitely "less planted", more lively and snappy than the aluminum, it is still extremely stable and confident and wants to go fast, it just feels lighter and more agile on the slower tighter stuff. The aluminum is so supple with the air shock it must feel dead with a coil. The spire is so slack in high I haven't even tried slack but even in high you need to be in attack position in corners.
Definitely doesn't feel dead with the coil, probably the most lively bike with a coil I've been on. I've switched back to the steep setting which is where its is going to stay, and currently running the x2, which is a great setup.
The short rear triangle, and I felt the same way when I tried it. My best description of it I could come up with was it felt like driving a school bus with the drivers seat in the very back of the bus lol
@@TheShredist I ride a meta tr 29 while not have rode to many enduro bikes I’ve come off a yt tues and supreme. The tr feels absolutely amazing even tho it’s short triangle and travel.
@@TheShredist Was his the flop 2021 model? They fixed the issues with the new SX. i dont own one but rode an SX and its waaaaay better than my old am29 from 21.
@@TheShredist I see, thanks for the info, that is very useful. I'm currently riding a Pivot Switchblade but was looking around at big enduro bikes. The Meta and the Spire were on my list, and the new Megatower intrigues me as well. I didn't consider about the short triangle and stays on the Meta, I know the Spire is longer out back. Since the Switchblade is already pretty poppy, I was looking at more of a big plowy bike. Hard to decide these days without the ability to demo stuff. I think the Switchblade is similar to the Sentinel. Thanks again!
Lower your stem and get a bar with more rise (35 mm for example). This will put you weight more forward without impacting your handling. Source: a semi pro enduro racer aka a guy that races the pro class nationally but ends up mid pack pro😂
I did that as well. Took off the Carbon OneUp 20mm rise bar and put the ANVL 35mm on instead. Love that bar. Perfect up and back sweeps. I haven’t found any other brand that uses the 6 and 7 sweeps.
Honestly, i had the same sentinel frame as your friend, but built from frame up. I honestly was not a fan. The constant weight forward restricts it going flat out - you start going fast so you naturally ride lower and more centred but if theres anything loose an you need to turn the front has nothing... im not a "sh1t rider" but i felt like needed to just ride steep stuff - i Bought it because technically it should be a good "do it all" - it climbs great but unless your riding gnarly steep stuff it just lacks when pointed down. Their "giddy up" platform isnt giddy up at all, its got a very linear feel to the suspension so the bike sits back(basically what your experiencing with the spire) Cascade link goes a long way to Resolving this. I dont want to sound like a hater, but i spent alot of time on my Sentinel trying to get it to perform half as good as my Altitude and it just doesnt and lacks Front grip for a AM bike. Probably one of my worst bike buys and glad i bought just the frame and here in NZ they are considerd a Botique brand so got all my money back for it when they had no stock.
Didn't come off as hate at all. I haven't been able to really push the bike yet, so I'm really hoping the front end traction issue goes away as I get used to it. Some bikes you just don't agree with!
Your take on the Sentinel really makes it sound JUST like the Ripmo, which is the bike it's usually cross shopped with. I have a Ripmo AF, the front is a hair vague you just have to kinda trust it, and it's not even nearly as slack as the Sentinel. Also the Ripmo back end is way too linear without a cascade link, I do run a cascade link on mine which is a game changer for it. My take on the Altitude was similar too, though I only got to do one demo ride on it, it cornered great and doesn't require an aggressive riding style to work well, like the Ripmo it managed to feel lively and playful even going at normal trail speeds on a blue trail and it's poppier than the Ripmo.
@@mrvwbug4423 I was looking to buy a Ripley/Ripmo or Sentinel/Spire and that's the first real criticism I've heard about those bikes, everyones always positive and praising how nice they are but never fessing up little details like that. Did you try adding volume reducers(i think?) before going cascade? I wasn't sure if I should try that before getting the cascade if I get the Ripmo
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
For the front grip on corners, instead of putting more weight in front, try to lower one spacer the stem. Same result without changing your body position more forward. Had the same thing when I first try the Sentinel, and after I lowered the stem, it handled the corners like a 65 degree HA bike. Try that and let us know the results. Cheers 🍺🍺
I'll give that a shot for sure, I have more than a few spacers under there lol.
Ride the Spire in the HI setting for those trails you're riding. It will feel better for sure.
Raw look of that aluminum looks so sick!
New Spire owner here: Similar observations... the Spire is like a fighter jet that goes into afterburner mode if you go into an aggressive/attack stance. And by doing that, totally destroyed all prior PRs going down (I'm just an average rider).
I would highly recommend putting the spire in the steep position. I test road a spire in Bellingham in the steep position and it was amazing, definitely my next bike. Riding it in the steep position I had no issues whatsoever with maintaing front end traction. Also, from talking with many spire riders, most prefer the bike that way.
Edit: after thinking about it a bit more, I did notice that the bike performed the best when I was centered over the bottom bracket almost at all times, so that might be the same thing that you're feeling with the front end.
I totally agree with this statement. I ride my Spire in the steep position all the time. 63 is still plenty steep and it keeps the front end more weighted. Beacon Hill is no where steep enough to warrant riding in the slack position. Flip to slack for bike park days - but for climbing and everyday riding steep is where it's at!
Yup. Unless you’re riding Yoann Barelli lines, high setting is where it’s at.
Your videos are so expertly made. You describe bike dynamics so well and the rest of the narration in the video is amazing. great editing, captions, video flows well. Just all around great job man, Love your stuff!
I own the Spire, and absolutely luv it❗️It’s the complete Deore build and I would not change a thing.
Except the rear hub engagement.
Great comperison, transition makes some nice look and well engenered bikes.
Lots of variables to account for, but on the first trail your riding looked a bit cleaner on the spire (even with the front end slide on that turn). Great video!
I have the alloy Sentinel and I really like it. Such a versatile bike.
You rock for doing this comparison, I’ve been waiting for this
I'm suprised is not really done much. They're the 2 bikes everyone is shopping between.
Would love to see a 3 way comparison with the Patrol as well. I got a chance to ride the new Commencal mullet bike (Meta SX) and it was crazy agile for an enduro bike, absolutely shredded corners and was super poppy, just had the standard Commencal problem of pedaling like crap on the climbs.
Same!
Same!
I really like the sound of the Transition Relay and am hoping to get one next year so I'll be thrilled if it rides like a Spire with assist I can turn off whenever
Great video, I love the comparison/review stuff!
As always love your content and just your genuine style and steez. After this comparison with what you noted about the spire front end traction, climb etc. would be a cool video to anti-shredist tune the spire - make all the setting the opposite of your preferences (less slack, maybe go other end of the sag settings) and get some feedback how it changes the handling, maybe you will be surprised (probs not - we like what we like due to experience)
I love the comparison! I hammer my 2020 sentinel on mostly technical dh and mix in a little trail and it’s handled everything with ease. Good to know if I want to bridge the gap between the sentinel and a dh bike (not that I even ride my dh bike at parks anymore or think I need anything bigger) the spire is a good pick.
I’m trying to buy a sentinel used right now and this was reassuring since my local trails aren’t too gnarly but I like to ride a lot of park in the summer
i demoed both bike and ended up with a sentinal for its climbing and nimbleness, i threw a cush core in the rear and now it bombs almost as fast as a spire on the down
It’s great you guys are doing aluminum builds. More of a realistic concept for the average rider. Looking to get an alloy Sentinel in XXL.
Went from an XL sentinel to a L spire per Transition rec. I was way more stoked on how the L handled after I demoed the XL spire as the L spire’s wheelbase was actually slightly shorter than the XL sentinel.
I've experimented with longer/bigger bikes and found that after a certain point I lost more than I gained. I've since moved back down to shorter frames [still long compared to what I used to ride] and less suspension. My motto these days is "More shred! Less sled!" It doesn't hold me back at all since feeling more confident and in control of the bike means I can tackle just as hard lines as the bigger bike. One nice thing is the smaller bike remains fun on less demanding trails.
It's also interesting to see a number of EWS racers size down on their frames to get more performance out of their bikes when seconds matter. So longer/bigger is not equal to faster or more capable.
Even a lot of the EWS bikes aren't running 62 or even 63 HTAs. The top 3 last season were all on bikes with 64-65 HTAs with Rude and Moir only having 150mm rear travel. The EWS Ripmos were running around 64.4 HTA as all 3 Ibis team bikes ran 170mm up front but still only 147mm out back and the team bikes were not cascade linked, and all 3 riders were consistently top 10 the whole season with Barona winning a round.
Nice, Beacon hill. Seems more riders now gravitate towards jump lines and flow trails. Thus picking between slack and super slack. 150+ travel
I’m wondering if a shorter or longer stem could help resolve the front end weight issue.
With a longer stem it pushes the body forward so it should do the trick imo.
But on the other hand everyone else swears it’s the other way around.
You could try lowering the stack height to help with cornering
Great review!
I'm torn between the Sentinel and the Stumpy Evo, which seems to be a bit more conservative (higher stack, steeper HT angle). Guess both would be a good choice.
The Sentinel almost certainly pedals better, the EVO is typical FSR, you NEED the lockout on the climbs and pedal striking during sprints is a thing you need to watch out for. The Evo definitely feels like a trail bike, you sit on top of the bike, I've heard the Sentinel feels more like an enduro bike i.e. you're down in the bike more and just monster trucks a little better. The Sentinel is also often compared to the Ripmo, which also feels like an enduro bike, but is probably the best pedaling 150 travel bike out there though might be a hair more chattery on tech due to the DW link.
What did you buy? I am facing the same question as you. Found out today that Transition’s EWS/EDR guys are on Patrols (and not Spire’s) which surprised me - and that of the two Specialized racers one is on an Enduro and the other is on a Stumpjumper Evo
@@GregorBlacksmith Got a Stumpy Evo, never looked back.
Hi , wondering if the Transition Sentinel is okay on the steep , rough stuff
Hey im 5'10 150 just wondering if I should go with a medium sentinel or a large
Funny, I have been thinking about getting one of these for a while. I have a Transition Smuggler at the moment, which I love, but with more frequent visits to bike parks, I'm kinda wanting something with a little more travel. So the question is, sell the Smuggler and get a well specced Sentinel, or keep the Smuggler and add a Spire to the collection?
Depends if you want multiple bikes. I will say fitting two bikes with all your choice of goodies and tires gets more spendy to maintain. If thats not an issue, the spire would be a great compliment to a short travel bike.
@@TheShredist Very true. Thanks for the input! It is very tempting to have multiple bikes, so at least one is in working condition at a given time, although the cost is definitely a factor.
And also, with two bikes it's easier to lure friends into mountain biking :D
@@Ctrl952 I completely agree. If you can afford it, it's well worth having two bikes. The n+1 rule exists for a reason haha
you could always get a carbon Sentinel if you want a do it all bike. my alloy sentinel is more than capable on everything, leaving no trail feeling too boring, nor any descent out of my capabilities. the bike has a habit of working incredibly well on any terrain you place it in.
Great video
Im curious about what Mark didnt like about the Commencal ? Is it the "Boeing 747" feel you were talking about ?
That paired with the super short rear triangle. It felt really off-balanced.
So why are you in the high setting on Spire?
The real question, where'd you get that blue spring?!?!?! Looks incredible.
Custom painted to match!
You might want to get a slightly longer stem to force you more over the front of the bike
Good call!
I switched my Sentinel from the 40mm stem to a 50mm and instantly felt the difference so I’m sure it would be a big help on the Spire. Originally switched it to 50 because that’s what I have on my Transition TR11.
Hey could you do one with the patrol?
Compare Spire vs Cascade link sentinel
This is beacon hill right?
came looking for reviews on the sentinel, 30 seconds in I'm thinkin, aye that's beacon hill!
Subs to the locals :D
I just picked up the carbon GX spire. I love the bike. However, I favor coil over air. Would it be worth the money to get a coil setup for this bike? Thanks!
Coil definitely works great on the bike, I've been running the x2 though because it just works on this bike amazingly well.
@@TheShredist I think the stock deluxe is an amazing option as well. I just love coil consistency and service intervals. Thanks for the reply. Great video too btw!
What’s your suspension set up on the spire?
Transition spire is for aggressive riding, it is hard to control if you going slow.
Both are excellent bikes. The tough part is being honest about how steep your local trails are. The steeper the trail the better that slack geometry works. I wish I could have both a Spire and a Spur!
I think you'd have to live in sqamish to really want a 62 degree HTA or race world cup DH. I've ridden some of the steepest trails in Colorado and have never felt the 64.9 HTA on my Ripmo wasn't slack enough.
@@mrvwbug4423 I can't decide between buying a Ripmo or a Sentinel/Spire right now
The Carbon Spire is definitely "less planted", more lively and snappy than the aluminum, it is still extremely stable and confident and wants to go fast, it just feels lighter and more agile on the slower tighter stuff. The aluminum is so supple with the air shock it must feel dead with a coil. The spire is so slack in high I haven't even tried slack but even in high you need to be in attack position in corners.
Definitely doesn't feel dead with the coil, probably the most lively bike with a coil I've been on. I've switched back to the steep setting which is where its is going to stay, and currently running the x2, which is a great setup.
@@TheShredist might have to try a coil then, how much sag are you running with your current spring?
what size is the sentinel and how tall are you?
What does this mean?
What did your friend not like about their Commencal?
The short rear triangle, and I felt the same way when I tried it. My best description of it I could come up with was it felt like driving a school bus with the drivers seat in the very back of the bus lol
@@TheShredist I ride a meta tr 29 while not have rode to many enduro bikes I’ve come off a yt tues and supreme. The tr feels absolutely amazing even tho it’s short triangle and travel.
@@TheShredist Was his the flop 2021 model? They fixed the issues with the new SX. i dont own one but rode an SX and its waaaaay better than my old am29 from 21.
@@TheShredist I see, thanks for the info, that is very useful. I'm currently riding a Pivot Switchblade but was looking around at big enduro bikes. The Meta and the Spire were on my list, and the new Megatower intrigues me as well.
I didn't consider about the short triangle and stays on the Meta, I know the Spire is longer out back.
Since the Switchblade is already pretty poppy, I was looking at more of a big plowy bike. Hard to decide these days without the ability to demo stuff. I think the Switchblade is similar to the Sentinel. Thanks again!
It was. I was considering the MX because it seems they fixed the issue that was present Marks bike. It was a disappointing ride for sure.
Lower your stem and get a bar with more rise (35 mm for example). This will put you weight more forward without impacting your handling. Source: a semi pro enduro racer aka a guy that races the pro class nationally but ends up mid pack pro😂
A mid pack pro will still blow me out of the water lol. That's a great tip though! I'll pick up some higher bars to go along with lowering the stem 🤘
I did that as well. Took off the Carbon OneUp 20mm rise bar and put the ANVL 35mm on instead. Love that bar. Perfect up and back sweeps. I haven’t found any other brand that uses the 6 and 7 sweeps.
Wait wouldn’t that do the opposite ? If you put a longer stem (i.e 50mm) it moves your body forward…
Just asking I’m no pro.
@@pjsanab no he means lower the stem. Not different stem. Less spacers so it’s lower on the head tube.
@@Flutiedb understood but will a longer stem also force more weight towards the front end or no?
Haha first. Sweet bikes mannn
Transition makes good bikes I have a 2020 Patrol wont ever buy another brand again
Honestly, i had the same sentinel frame as your friend, but built from frame up.
I honestly was not a fan. The constant weight forward restricts it going flat out - you start going fast so you naturally ride lower and more centred but if theres anything loose an you need to turn the front has nothing... im not a "sh1t rider" but i felt like needed to just ride steep stuff - i Bought it because technically it should be a good "do it all" - it climbs great but unless your riding gnarly steep stuff it just lacks when pointed down.
Their "giddy up" platform isnt giddy up at all, its got a very linear feel to the suspension so the bike sits back(basically what your experiencing with the spire)
Cascade link goes a long way to Resolving this.
I dont want to sound like a hater, but i spent alot of time on my Sentinel trying to get it to perform half as good as my Altitude and it just doesnt and lacks Front grip for a AM bike.
Probably one of my worst bike buys and glad i bought just the frame and here in NZ they are considerd a Botique brand so got all my money back for it when they had no stock.
Valuable info, thanks for sharing 👍
Didn't come off as hate at all. I haven't been able to really push the bike yet, so I'm really hoping the front end traction issue goes away as I get used to it. Some bikes you just don't agree with!
Your take on the Sentinel really makes it sound JUST like the Ripmo, which is the bike it's usually cross shopped with. I have a Ripmo AF, the front is a hair vague you just have to kinda trust it, and it's not even nearly as slack as the Sentinel. Also the Ripmo back end is way too linear without a cascade link, I do run a cascade link on mine which is a game changer for it. My take on the Altitude was similar too, though I only got to do one demo ride on it, it cornered great and doesn't require an aggressive riding style to work well, like the Ripmo it managed to feel lively and playful even going at normal trail speeds on a blue trail and it's poppier than the Ripmo.
@@mrvwbug4423 absolutely - im currently on a Spectral mullet and its such a good bike. so much confidence in the front.
@@mrvwbug4423 I was looking to buy a Ripley/Ripmo or Sentinel/Spire and that's the first real criticism I've heard about those bikes, everyones always positive and praising how nice they are but never fessing up little details like that. Did you try adding volume reducers(i think?) before going cascade? I wasn't sure if I should try that before getting the cascade if I get the Ripmo
Beacon?
You are riding a dh bike on flat terrain in the low setting…
#mindblown
58th
1st in my book 🎉