This is fantastic. I like that you are discussing experimental and new techniques, plus you're using real science to improve your results, but I appreciate the editing. This is a video for more advanced smiths, and you skipped over the parts that aren't relevant to the experimental work. Thank you!
"Eventually you will see these techniques be used to complete more interesting projects" given the rate at which these videos come out that may be a lifelong journey we're going on with you to see you refine and implement these techniques. while the thought of having to wait a long time before we see your work again depresses me quite a bit, it is worth the wait. Keep up the good work, I really love the content that you've put out so far.
Always a pleasure watching your Forge Diaries! Please continue to produce fine work and share them with the world, it is a valuable source of fascinating education!
Hey Niels, i enjoy ur videos and the shown results so much, pls upload some more of them! I also like when you try something new and unconventional. Could you imagine to experiment with different alloys ? Maybe also by creating them ?
one tip, a knifemaker gave me once: Do destress-glowing before the grinding and again desteress glowing and a few cycles normalizing after the grinding. The rreason is simple. grinding off material also Releases stress, that can deform or crack the blade. Maybe not much important for short and relatively thick blacdes as yours, but helpful for kitchen knives or swords. You do a great work. subscribed!
Incredible video, I love watching this type of stuff. Wrought iron and shear steel always fascinate me for some reason... And YES, I would love to see more of this, even doin the exact same thing as you did in this vid... we need more forge diaries inbetween your big projects, IMO they are just as good if not sometimes more fun to watch :) Thanks for sharing as always, take care.
I agree with the other comments... another great video... well made..enjoyable.. very nice. thank you for your investment in the community, very sincere, best wishes
I am a woodworker but you are inspiring me to get a forge. I was of the understanding that using a coal fired forge imparts carbon into the iron, maybe I saw this in one of your previous videos.
Awesome content. Every time I see your videos I feel inspired to create cool stuff. Hopefully someday I'll have the resources to dabble in smithing myself. Thanks for the cool videos!
Oh, this is just great! Really love the videos, I don't have a forge myself...yet :) it's REALLY interesting to look at your "research" :D keep em coming!
@Niels Provos I managed to create a san-mai billet with my own shear steel in the middle and wrought-iron on the outside. I drew it out to twice the length and when establishing a precurve, the billet cracked in half perpendicular to the grain. Does this process require forging at welding heat for every step, even when curving and beveling to avoid splitting?
very cool. and this seems so un-TH-cam, but you have over 1600 likes, and only 1 dislike. my heart swells with mild enthusiasm for my fellow humans. great work, by the way. I really enjoy your videos.
I forge out many many wrench knives and have had really good luck hardening them. The steel starts out as 31CrV3 (w/ .28-.35% C) But after the forging process and the 15 minute pre quench soak at 1,400-1,600 F, it is much closer to 5160 or 80crv2 (W/ I am guessing .5%-.7%+ C). Makes me completely rethink how the carbon in the forge and carbon in the steel interact and migrate. Just because you start out with a known steel composition does not mean that by the time you quench the blade, that it is even close. Very interesting process.
+Colson Customs carbon migration is pretty slow and does not penetrate very deeply. In this video i was keeping the box at around 2000F for 4 hours or so.
Niels Provos I can't speak to the exact speed or depth, but I have had good results with thin blades. Under .020" (.5mm) at the edge and about .100" .125" (2.5-3.2 mm) at the spine. I usually forge them for about 45 minutes, most of which is them just sitting in the top 1/3rd of the charcoal fire while I am working on other pieces. Then after grinding they soak for about 15 minutes. Get them into 100F peanut oil pretty quick and temper to between 375-425F for 2, 1 hr cycles.
***** The carbon migrates into the iron and yes, the temperatures need to be below the melting point. Historically, lower temperatures but much longer times were used.
@Niels Provos Awesome video, I've probably watched it over 20 times now, thanks for the upload! I was curious however what laboratory service you used when you tested your shear steel's composition, I have recently created my own batch of shear steel (it sparks well!) and I am interested in having a sample tested for a school assignment of mine. Thanks again.
Thanks, I'll do some searching for services on my end as well. I broke a piece after an oil quench at around 1500 f and the piece was very tough, it took some heavy swinging until it broke. When it did break however, it was a clean break, martensite silky grey grain visible and consistent (nicely refined too, I was surprised). It was around 60 HRC, I want to make a Kukri from it, so that is more than hard enough.
@Niels Provos Strange, I suppose my problem is likely the structure of my shear steel, as the tear happened at an orange heat. I am not sure why, I etched the area of the tear and there were no cracks visible. Oh well, thanks for the response.
I noticed that in some of your other videos you switch between a coal forge and the gas forge you used here,is there something with coal forges that makes forge welding less successful?
Hi Niels, greetings from Uruguay, that was an excellent video, not only for all the forging and welding, but also for the useful example of metallurgy and chemestry. Im study to be a chemist in my university, and what i think might have happened with the carbon content in the iron is contamination. Maybe your carbon source or something else had phosphorus compounds that may have been involved in a chemical reaccion with the carbon, preventing it from defussing in the steel, I dont know for sure, metallurgy is not my area of study, you should try to use some sort of compound with a lot of affinity with phosphorus. Nevertheless great video, what you do is art, keep it up. Sorry if theres som spelling or grammar mistake.
Great video, Mr. Provos ! I am a woodworker so I know very little about metals, but I really like your work & your experiments - I only know how to sharpen my blades ;-) One question for anyone who has a simple answer : When you talk about the 'grain' in the wrought iron... in what sense ? '...grain that is usually stretched quite significantly in one direction...' Wood has 'grain' because it is a biological material made from different types of cells, but why has metal got grain ? Do all metals have grain ? What scale / size does this grain have ? Does the grain affect the material's strength in the 3 dimensions (like wood) ? So many questions - so little time... Anyways: Keep up he good work, Sir !
barkebaat Metal has a crystalline structure. These structures can grow large and brittle. However, the grain in steel can be reduced and refined with proper heat treatment. For wrought iron, there are also a lot of other impurities. The way in which it is made often results in stretching it in one direction. That direction becomes visible for example when cold breaking it.
Love your vids Niels, my only quarrel is with that rock/metal music around 07:40, it feels out of place compared to classical/fantasy music you otherwise use, (which I find fit your videos/voice perfectly!), alas, just my opinion :).
Hey Niels, what exactly is wrought iron? I am a hobby blacksmith from north-east germany, so....is it something like "baustahl"? you know, very-low carbon content?
0GregorSchultz0 Wrought Iron is not being produced in commercial quantities anymore. It's low in carbon but has impurities. Look at the Bloomery Iron video I posted years ago for one way of making it: th-cam.com/video/FUhv2OnVVDU/w-d-xo.html
For your blister steel container, was there any kind of vent or was it completely sealed? I've been wanting to try this technique for a while but kinda scared of an explosion.
+Niels Provos I was just concerned about the gases expanding inside a fully sealed metal container under high temperatures then having it rupture. and boom there goes my forge. I just wasn't sure if the container was fully sealed or not, or if it needed to be, to work.
Do you need to worry about the container being airtight? If so, how do you manage the risk of the increased pressure due to heat within the container? I want to try this but I don't want to accidentally build a pipe bomb.
Niels Provos Thank u for your answer, its a shame, still the great art and knowledge on all the stuff u made. With every video of yours im a bit wiser :)
Rather than using a metal container, consider using a ceramic of some sort. You can buy them (expensive) or make them (fireclay is cheap). Fire clay operating temps range from 1900 to 2400F depending on the mix. Even basic dug out of the ground stuff with sand average 1400F to fire let alone start to fail. Less hassle than having to weld a metal container. You used a graphite container during your Wootz experiment so you should know how well these would work.
brainplay You are absolutely right. The crucibles I have don't fit in the temperature controlled oven. If I end up making much more of this, the iron melting furnace can be run at lower temperatures.
Compared to charcoal it's going to be cleaner but also much more expensive. Probably not necessary. However, if your local charcoal is contaminated, it might be an option.
i would of said preheat the bars first but then again you will have to weld it and all but why don't you use a choke forge it dose help to get more content of carbon in which is useful but forge welding on it needs a very clean fire and all but then again you use flux unlike i don't but i do love watching your videos would like to see more of them keep the good work up :)
+scott left what would you like to contribute with your comment? There are lots of different ways to do this. None of the crucibles I have in the shop fit :-)
Cant you get potassium carbonate and calcium carbonate in the pharmaceutical part of a store, because last time I remembered getting calcium carbonate, it was for heartburn, and it tasted like rockets/smarties (if you live in the United States) so I eating those things like it was spatzel Fucked up comparison, i know
Forge Diaries is one of my favorite TH-cam shows. So informative and entertaining.
This is fantastic. I like that you are discussing experimental and new techniques, plus you're using real science to improve your results, but I appreciate the editing. This is a video for more advanced smiths, and you skipped over the parts that aren't relevant to the experimental work. Thank you!
Thanks again for another Forge Diary.
Another excellent video, I could listen to you talk about forging all day!
I don't forge, and have nothing to do with forging in my life, but your videos are just very fun and interesting to see! I really enjoy watching them.
Quite enjoyable! I'm taking a class on metals and alloys this semester and look forward to gaining a better understanding and appreciate of forging.
"Eventually you will see these techniques be used to complete more interesting projects" given the rate at which these videos come out that may be a lifelong journey we're going on with you to see you refine and implement these techniques. while the thought of having to wait a long time before we see your work again depresses me quite a bit, it is worth the wait. Keep up the good work, I really love the content that you've put out so far.
Always a pleasure watching your Forge Diaries! Please continue to produce fine work and share them with the world, it is a valuable source of fascinating education!
Craftsmanship at it's finest . Thank you for sharing Neils.
Awesome video. I love the little bits of science that you put in.
Neat stuff Niels! Thanks for sharing both the failures and successes, it's great to see your processes
Very nice work Niels, as always!
Niels Provos. -- Great content! One of my top favorite TH-cam channels!
Glad you like it!
Hey Niels, i enjoy ur videos and the shown results so much, pls upload some more of them! I also like when you try something new and unconventional. Could you imagine to experiment with different alloys ? Maybe also by creating them ?
Yes, please more! Always look forward to your videos.
one tip, a knifemaker gave me once: Do destress-glowing before the grinding and again desteress glowing and a few cycles normalizing after the grinding. The rreason is simple. grinding off material also Releases stress, that can deform or crack the blade. Maybe not much important for short and relatively thick blacdes as yours, but helpful for kitchen knives or swords. You do a great work. subscribed!
Incredible video, I love watching this type of stuff. Wrought iron and shear steel always fascinate me for some reason... And YES, I would love to see more of this, even doin the exact same thing as you did in this vid... we need more forge diaries inbetween your big projects, IMO they are just as good if not sometimes more fun to watch :) Thanks for sharing as always, take care.
Thank you for all the time and effort you put into these videos and projects, I love them a lot :)
Great video! Loved it! I don't know anything about Blacksmithing but this is so awesome to watch, thanks for taking the time to make such videos!
looks like a lot of fun and a fine knife, you inspire me to start a blacksmith shop.
Fantastic job. More please.
I learned so many things at once. Thanks for the video
More! These are my favourite videos!
Make more my friend. I love the details in the forging processes.
I agree with the other comments... another great video... well made..enjoyable.. very nice.
thank you for your investment in the community, very sincere, best wishes
I am a woodworker but you are inspiring me to get a forge.
I was of the understanding that using a coal fired forge imparts carbon into the iron, maybe I saw this in one of your previous videos.
Awesome content. Every time I see your videos I feel inspired to create cool stuff. Hopefully someday I'll have the resources to dabble in smithing myself. Thanks for the cool videos!
I love these videos so much. Every one of them is super relaxing and fascinating. I look forward to more!
Great video. Very nicely put together!
HE IS BACK! THANK THE GODS!
This was really nice to watch
Can't wait to see your next video! :)
Awesome video... as always, very interesting.
Excellent as usual.
Always like your videos thanks for sharing
Great video ! Wish I could work the same as you do but I'm still learning (and you're helping with that !).
Keep doing them !
Very informational and interesting videos! Keep it up! :)
Excellent video and very thorough explanations. Please could you explain what factors affect the carbon concentration in the case hardened material?
+James Lennard It's mostly time and heat. Alloying elements contribute to it, too, e.g. phosphorous inhibits carbon migration.
Great video
How did the steel turn out? Did it take an edge? Was it prone to heavy burr formation? Looks amazing.
yes. it did take an edge.
I love your videos! Really relaxing!
Oh, this is just great! Really love the videos, I don't have a forge myself...yet :) it's REALLY interesting to look at your "research" :D keep em coming!
That steel composition looks amazing! what was the HRC of the shear steel in the end do you know?
7:44 neat smoke ring coming off that power hammer
@Niels Provos
I managed to create a san-mai billet with my own shear steel in the middle and wrought-iron on the outside. I drew it out to twice the length and when establishing a precurve, the billet cracked in half perpendicular to the grain. Does this process require forging at welding heat for every step, even when curving and beveling to avoid splitting?
+Benjamin Bays it should not. A solid orange should be good enough once you are done with forge welding.
Well done mate !! Realy enjoy your videos ^_^ ,a wish you could make more...
it takes a lot of work to make these videos. it easily doubles the time it takes for me to finish something but I will keep them coming.
very cool. and this seems so un-TH-cam, but you have over 1600 likes, and only 1 dislike. my heart swells with mild enthusiasm for my fellow humans. great work, by the way. I really enjoy your videos.
I like the wind music at the end
interesting , beautiful knife
great video very interesting
Carburization is something I have been looking into, I have a small supply of old wrought Iron spikes. Was that just charcoal dust?
I forge out many many wrench knives and have had really good luck hardening them. The steel starts out as 31CrV3 (w/ .28-.35% C) But after the forging process and the 15 minute pre quench soak at 1,400-1,600 F, it is much closer to 5160 or 80crv2 (W/ I am guessing .5%-.7%+ C). Makes me completely rethink how the carbon in the forge and carbon in the steel interact and migrate. Just because you start out with a known steel composition does not mean that by the time you quench the blade, that it is even close. Very interesting process.
+Colson Customs carbon migration is pretty slow and does not penetrate very deeply. In this video i was keeping the box at around 2000F for 4 hours or so.
Niels Provos
I can't speak to the exact speed or depth, but I have had good results with thin blades. Under .020" (.5mm) at the edge and about .100" .125" (2.5-3.2 mm) at the spine. I usually forge them for about 45 minutes, most of which is them just sitting in the top 1/3rd of the charcoal fire while I am working on other pieces. Then after grinding they soak for about 15 minutes. Get them into 100F peanut oil pretty quick and temper to between 375-425F for 2, 1 hr cycles.
4:40 so to make the high carbon steel it has to be hot enough for the carbon to bond with the iron but not so much as to melt the bars and container?
***** The carbon migrates into the iron and yes, the temperatures need to be below the melting point. Historically, lower temperatures but much longer times were used.
love your forge diaries and i learn alot keep up the good work.
kevin j grand cayman
@Niels Provos
Awesome video, I've probably watched it over 20 times now, thanks for the upload! I was curious however what laboratory service you used when you tested your shear steel's composition, I have recently created my own batch of shear steel (it sparks well!) and I am interested in having a sample tested for a school assignment of mine. Thanks again.
+Benjamin Bays I need to look it up. It was fairly pricey. For a while, a fellow smith in Michigan was able to help with analysis :-)
Thanks, I'll do some searching for services on my end as well. I broke a piece after an oil quench at around 1500 f and the piece was very tough, it took some heavy swinging until it broke. When it did break however, it was a clean break, martensite silky grey grain visible and consistent (nicely refined too, I was surprised). It was around 60 HRC, I want to make a Kukri from it, so that is more than hard enough.
@Niels Provos Strange, I suppose my problem is likely the structure of my shear steel, as the tear happened at an orange heat. I am not sure why, I etched the area of the tear and there were no cracks visible. Oh well, thanks for the response.
Thanks for this. Amazing.
I really liked this one. Thanks for the great video! :D
Panchbell =cannon D major... just love the background music
Gotta think the move from iron age to steel was challenging!
Great morevideos :)! i rly enjoy whatching these videos and i enjoy working whit metal but i just dont have tools for it but maybe some day! :D
How might the phosphorus content of the iron be reduced? Is this at all possible, short of having the iron re-smelted?
I noticed that in some of your other videos you switch between a coal forge and the gas forge you used here,is there something with coal forges that makes forge welding less successful?
Hi Niels, greetings from Uruguay, that was an excellent video, not only for all the forging and welding, but also for the useful example of metallurgy and chemestry. Im study to be a chemist in my university, and what i think might have happened with the carbon content in the iron is contamination. Maybe your carbon source or something else had phosphorus compounds that may have been involved in a chemical reaccion with the carbon, preventing it from defussing in the steel, I dont know for sure, metallurgy is not my area of study, you should try to use some sort of compound with a lot of affinity with phosphorus. Nevertheless great video, what you do is art, keep it up.
Sorry if theres som spelling or grammar mistake.
thanks for your feedback. I have nur figured out how to remove the phosphorous yet short of melting it in a crucible.
very nice
watched this while studying for my materials science midterms (specifically alloying and strengthening mechanisms)
Hi, what welder do you use?
I am looking for one just like it. Thanks!
Finally :D Thanks for the video ;)
Great video, Mr. Provos ! I am a woodworker so I know very little about metals, but I really like your work & your experiments - I only know how to sharpen my blades ;-)
One question for anyone who has a simple answer : When you talk about the 'grain' in the wrought iron... in what sense ? '...grain that is usually stretched quite significantly in one direction...' Wood has 'grain' because it is a biological material made from different types of cells, but why has metal got grain ? Do all metals have grain ? What scale / size does this grain have ? Does the grain affect the material's strength in the 3 dimensions (like wood) ?
So many questions - so little time...
Anyways: Keep up he good work, Sir !
barkebaat Metal has a crystalline structure. These structures can grow large and brittle. However, the grain in steel can be reduced and refined with proper heat treatment. For wrought iron, there are also a lot of other impurities. The way in which it is made often results in stretching it in one direction. That direction becomes visible for example when cold breaking it.
Niels Provos
Thanks for explanation. This is interesting, I must investigate further.
Love your vids Niels, my only quarrel is with that rock/metal music around 07:40, it feels out of place compared to classical/fantasy music you otherwise use, (which I find fit your videos/voice perfectly!), alas, just my opinion :).
Hey Niels,
what exactly is wrought iron?
I am a hobby blacksmith from north-east germany, so....is it something like "baustahl"?
you know, very-low carbon content?
0GregorSchultz0 Wrought Iron is not being produced in commercial quantities anymore. It's low in carbon but has impurities. Look at the Bloomery Iron video I posted years ago for one way of making it: th-cam.com/video/FUhv2OnVVDU/w-d-xo.html
have my thanks :)
How would a process like this have been done before modern welding to hold the pieces in place while you forge weld them?
+fullmetalfunk clay crucible would be one option
For your blister steel container, was there any kind of vent or was it completely sealed? I've been wanting to try this technique for a while but kinda scared of an explosion.
It was mostly sealed but probably not air tight. Why do you expect an explosion?
+Niels Provos I was just concerned about the gases expanding inside a fully sealed metal container under high temperatures then having it rupture. and boom there goes my forge. I just wasn't sure if the container was fully sealed or not, or if it needed to be, to work.
but thanks for the info though it really helps out.
MOAR!
Do you need to worry about the container being airtight? If so, how do you manage the risk of the increased pressure due to heat within the container? I want to try this but I don't want to accidentally build a pipe bomb.
+Connor Pollock you can drill a small hole or not weld it air tight.
Good to know! Thanks!
I would like to know why you do not show us how to temper the steel
Would using graphite crucibles with glass, borax, lime and charcoal in the propane furnace work to refine the wrought iron into carbon steel?
+boudi bla That would be more like crucible steel.
What happened to the Viking sword ? Have you abandoned the project ?
It's not abandoned but it's on pause.
was it a crack on that blade ? or a structure of steel ? at the "ricasso part" of the blade ( i know there is no ricasso here but u know what i mean )
gdhgdfhdfghgdfh It's a crack. That part of the iron ended up being too brittle to forge.
Niels Provos Thank u for your answer, its a shame, still the great art and knowledge on all the stuff u made. With every video of yours im a bit wiser :)
How wounderful
Rather than using a metal container, consider using a ceramic of some sort. You can buy them (expensive) or make them (fireclay is cheap). Fire clay operating temps range from 1900 to 2400F depending on the mix. Even basic dug out of the ground stuff with sand average 1400F to fire let alone start to fail. Less hassle than having to weld a metal container.
You used a graphite container during your Wootz experiment so you should know how well these would work.
brainplay You are absolutely right. The crucibles I have don't fit in the temperature controlled oven. If I end up making much more of this, the iron melting furnace can be run at lower temperatures.
What are your thoughts on using graphite for carbon?
Compared to charcoal it's going to be cleaner but also much more expensive. Probably not necessary. However, if your local charcoal is contaminated, it might be an option.
I might be able to get a bit of graphite powder for free. Thanks for the input.
0:26 who saw the four-leaf clover?!
very good quality and very good explanation! thank you and keep up the good work#))
Is the sword ever getting finished?
gives a elektric blower much more heat?my forge gets only yellow but not hot enough to forge damascus
+Sam Engels yellow should be enough for forge welding. The atmosphere is more important.
What you mean with atmosphere?
+Sam Engels if it's oxidizing or reducing.
For flux im using salt is that ok? I have a video of my forge on my Channel
+Sam Engels i use Borax as flux.
love it
how do you like the nimba anvil
+CelticODST We don't have a Nimba anvil; so I can't really tell you :-)
How old is that air hammer?
+douro20 not sure; 15 years or so.
i would of said preheat the bars first but then again you will have to weld it and all but why don't you use a choke forge it dose help to get more content of carbon in which is useful but forge welding on it needs a very clean fire and all but then again you use flux unlike i don't but i do love watching your videos would like to see more of them keep the good work up :)
Wouldn't using a coal-forge give of carbon to the Iron?
yes but carbon migration takes heat and time in the same way there too.
Cant believe this is almost 10 years old
Time flies 🤪
I fucking love your videos.
Where are you man?
What do you mean? I have the video shot for episode 6 but it needs more editing.
Niels Provos I was just thinking because it's bee a while. Looking up for the next video, keep up the good work :)
You explain too much. I like it!
Are you German, American or Pennsylvania German?
For many years I stupidly assumed steel was a naturally occurring ore like iron and other metals.
I wonder how a sword would preform with this method
TRADITIONALLY....ceramic containers were used....you should have seen this fact somewhere surley.
+scott left what would you like to contribute with your comment? There are lots of different ways to do this. None of the crucibles I have in the shop fit :-)
Cant you get potassium carbonate and calcium carbonate in the pharmaceutical part of a store, because last time I remembered getting calcium carbonate, it was for heartburn, and it tasted like rockets/smarties (if you live in the United States) so I eating those things like it was spatzel
Fucked up comparison, i know