World War I: The Seminal Tragedy - Lies - Extra History
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ต.ค. 2014
- 📜 The Seminal Tragedy of World War I - European History - Series Wrap-up & Lies Episode
The search for truth in history is always a matter of blazing a path through multiple sources, each with a different perspective. We hope this series about the events that led to World War I not only taught you new things but encouraged you to ask new questions. Our writer, James Portnow, sits down to talk about what he learned from researching and writing this series - as well as the mistakes we made along the way. Did the world really hinge on Gavrilo Princip's sandwich? How do we know so much about Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Sazonov's day? We answer these questions and more, but above all, we encourage you to do more research on your own!
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Miss an episode in our World War I Series?
Part 1 - • World War I: The Semin...
Part 2 - • World War I: The Semin...
Part 3 - • World War I: The Semin...
Part 4 - • World War I: The Semin...
Series Wrap-up & Lies Episode - • World War I: The Semin...
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Artist: David Hueso I Writer: James Portnow I Voice: Daniel. Floyd I Editor: Carrie Floyd
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#ExtraHistory #WW1 #History
rare to see someone talk about their factual mistakes :)
Also, it's worth remarking: James has *vastly* improved his public speaking. Carry this delivery over to your "James Recommends", and it will be worth watching.
TheAsvarduilProject I've noticed that too. Just compare the "Game Addiction" episode to now!
At least he's got the guts to admit their mistakes unlike someone we all know too well
@@altairakbar2405 who?
Especially someone with such fabulous hair
7:45 I'll be honest, your narrative license about the sandwich was worth it just to hear Cartoon Dave go "Holy ****, is that the Archduke?"
I bet up in heaven all these people were just watching WWI and then WWII and going: "Man, we screwed that up, didn't we?" and then Pourtales is just pointing at Sazanov and going: "WHAT DID I TELL YOU, DIDN'T I TELL YOU, 'CAUSE I TOLD YA!"
+bucca2 dat is from damily guy :D
Heaven? LMAO yeah sure Heaven 😂😂😂😂😂😂
^did my laughing crying emoticons show up for everyone else^
I'm pretty sure Bismark went furious in heaven when he saw the war he couldn't take part in..
Nah, most of them in hell
this is arguably the most awesome thing I've ever seen a history youtube series do. Taking specific effort to go back and point out where you editorialized something for dramatic effect or just outright made a mistake on is something more people really need to do.
My only criticism with the WWI coverage was that the immediate aftermath, the Treaty of Versailles, was not covered in a long video because, to me, it did as much damage as WWI. The Treaty ensured that WWII would happen, it laid the framework for almost all the current problems in the Middle East, and even led towards the war in Vietnam.
Winston Churchill stated that he did not consider WWI and WWII to be separate conflicts, only one war with a 20 year gap. This is mainly because of the Treaty of Versailles.
Beyond that, I've really enjoyed this series. It's great to make history more accessible to the general public, and hopefully doing so can help avoid some of these mistakes in the future.
Good luck with the Sengoku Jidai...even from my very brief readings, that era was insane.
Nobody learned their lesson from WW1. NOBODY. And they still don't to this day.
@@DeadlyDanDaMan the war to end all wars, didn’t, and set the stage for every conflict that came after. humanity never learns from its mistakes I guess
He had to respond to hundreds of angry emails about the fake candle.
wait, the people got angry because it could or couldnt be a candly in a table?
Mega Bichi
I doubt people actually cared whether there was or wasn't a candle, the thing they was whining about was that nobody had mentioned anything about a candle before, and it was used for(like James said) dramatic effect rather than conveying what actually happened.
When you seek the truth, minor inaccuracies and assumptions does make a difference ;)
guys, srsly
THERE WAS NO CANDLE SCANDAL
tsartomato soooooo singlehandedly winning a war, and the using of a candle are in the same level now.....mmmm....interesting
Mega Bichi
you are humanities aren't you
Please don't call it lies, call it mistakes. Lies give the idea that you have the intention of deceit. It's more about narrative flow than the idea of being mileading. Also great show. I hope to see Cold War soon. I'm always facinated by that period, also many lived that era, not me tough born in 1989.
Yeah, I agree
That's still the cold war just warmer than all the time before it
I agree don’t use lies.
well it's been 8 years and no luck
The intention is that it includes both mistakes AND the purposeful lies (typically of omission for simplicity). For what it's worth, accidentally lying doesn't make the lie any more true.
I'm certain they thought hard about how to name it, and they felt the negative connotation of the name was meaningful enough to warrant it.
It reminds me of Bernard Cornwell, who puts historical note after each of his novels, that are so in love with even tiniest little details. Great work with this series!
Bwahahaha...I'd forgotten that when I did this it took me so long that the sun started to rise at the end.
-JP
(And I'm in Norway and it was FREEZING, so I put on my coat, not thinking about how we'd cut it together...but it wouldn't be fun if there weren't ways to get better ; )
where in Norway? and why?
LeanderLFC Bergen, from what I understand.
I dont care where in Norway you are.. It hasn´t been cold anywhere yet.. So what if it came snow for a couple of days.. Still not cold
Cold? Freezing? HA! as if.
Anyways, hope you guys are making a video on the gaming scene in Norway, both in the Indie and AAA scene
What are you talking about? It's still fall, barely even chilly.
Hi guys, I really appreciate the idea of discussing previous mistakes in an episode with a more dry and matter-of-fact format at the end of the series, in comparison to the rather emotional tone of the narration in the other episodes (sometimes even too emotional in my opinion). It gives the viewer the chace to take a step back, and it's a good show of honesty and humility on your part, so kudos for that! One more error to point out in today's video, still: at 4:35 you say Franz-Josef was Austria-Hungary's last emperor, and he wasn't. It's probably just a slip of the tongue for James, though. :-)
I did it again!
(I love that people catch these things...please keep calling them out!)
-JP
Extra Credits Brilliant videos, they are a great way to introduce an interest in history
Even with the literary embellishment, when I did my own research, yours was one of the most concise and accurate retellings of the lead-up to the first world war. Most sources don't even bother going into the details you guys did. They just say there was an assassination due to conflict in the era, a failure in communication among the representatives that made the war unavoidable. They never talk about the comedy of errors in such detail. Thank you for that history that I never knew beforehand.
And next: OMG Sengoku Jidai! So looking forward to that one! The era that redefined Nippon as a nation! Literally! I'm SO looking forward to this! What's next after this? Civil War? 100 years war? Oh, that'd be a good one.
I suggest you read The Guns of August, by Barbara Tuchmann, or 1914: Catastrophe, by Max Hastings.
Both spend time covering the years and months that led to the war, more than the actual battles. The little details, unread messages, last minute hesitations... The Guns of August is an old book, and thus outdated in some parts, but Tuchmann is one of the best writers I've read in years. It's highly recommanded.
Max Hastings' book is also pretty good, though not as well written. It also cover more times, until the end of 1914 as opposed to just La Marne.
James has gotten so much better in front of a camera since his first appearances, it really shows in this video. Great job on the series and thanks for all you've done for us so far.
To be honest, you guys put more effort and passion in this endeavor than all of my history teachers all through my education. Mistakes aside, which everyone makes, you kept it as honest as possible, were not opinionated and most important of all, made it as interesting as this topic deserves to be.
Thanks for this video. Not many people, groups, companies, organizations, businesses or governments can admit that they were wrong and correct themselves in this day and age. You have my utmost respect. I tip my hat to you and all of the Extra Credits tean.
*team
I like the channel, but I LOVE owning the mistakes and REALLY love you telling people to go out and do more research for themselves. Just got a new sub..cudos
Isn't the term typically "kudos", or is there a root I failed to trace, here?
How dare you make mistakes like a regular human being! How dare you!
Daniel Lowery how dare he admit it XD
At least he admitted his mistakes
I like the ending touch where you talk about the things you've learned.
It's small but meaningful it reminds us we should learn from this.
SnowToad we have many memorials around my country (New Zealand) with the plaque "least we forget", followed by a list of those that left that town to fight in the first and second world wars. To often though I suspect we have forgotten.
It is really nice of you to clear out the finer points of the series, and to explain the meaning of your choices.
PS: James kinda looks like a vampire!
+STAY FROSTY BREAKING NEWS: All music teachers are vampires
What I'd like to see is maybe a video that recommends some books, movies and games that you think would be a good next step if you want to go a bit more in-depth. Maybe put it in tiers, sorting them by how deep down the rabbit hole you wanna go. Like maybe one category would be another "quick fix" that's not too much to take in and more about entertainment (like games with a historic backing, or movies that just scratch the surface) all the way down to very accurate and factual textbooks or something.
Michael S. Neiberg; Fighting the Great War; 2005. It's a bit too centered around military history and battles for my taste (it's actually almost all military history and battles) but it's a quick, nice start for someone who wants to get a general view. It's what they had me read the first year of major, so it should be good for you.
I'm currently reading "The Guns of August" by Barbara Tuchman. It's a bit wordy, and she spends the first section of the book talking at length about military strategy that can be a bit confusing and dull, but it spins it out under the thesis that everything that could have happened to make World War I into a horrifying murderous clusterfuck did.
The Guns of August, by Barbara Tuchmann, is a great book. Not only the amount of research put into it is unbelievable, but it's also very well written, almost like a novel. Great read.
Otherwise, go for Max Hastings' Catastrophe. It's more bland, as in, more like your usual history book. But still give a great insight on those years/months that led to war.
Note that both largely lay the blame on Germany and Austria, in case it hurts your sensibility.
Pandsu Yo if you're looking for a game I'd recommend Valiant Hearts. The events of the game aren't directly based on truth, but there's lots of true facts about the war that you can read up on throughout the game and it gets the tone right.
If you're still interested, there's a TH-cam channel called "The Great War" that goes very in depth into WWI.
Dat FFXI music in the background :D
This was the Windurst Tower right!? Oh god it's bothering me
No no, it wasn't tower, that's prettier. Shoooot. Was it a random city or a cutscene? gagahasd
EternisRequiem There were several. Ronfaure, San d'Oria, Jeuno, Sarutabaruta, the battle music, etc. Not in that order, mind you :p
EternisRequiem This is the title music for the original release.
Just shows that mistakes can slip through the cracks. It's been a good representation of how WW1 got started, but certainly not perfect. I'm still glad for the intro to this episode admitting where they made some mistakes. Some might have just dodged it.
Maybe show a box on the corner which says "half-truth" or "romanticized" or something. During the relevant scenes. Or when you say something for effect, there can be a fact box which tells you this like "we don't actually know wether there was a candle" and "his actual title was emperor, as ..."
Or just shade the background: pink for romantised or half truth, blue for accurate truths, green for speculation etc.
a commitment to truth and facts. something which is sorely lacking these days.
I admire you guys for being willing to accept your mistakes in these videos. You guys have really created a gem of a series here, and in these "lies" episodes, you are convincing us that even the past is not entirely set in stone. By making these episodes, you are bringing not just the stories from history, but also the study of history to all of your viewers. And for that, I congratulate you
Agghhhh. You still seem to be confusing geographical locations such as Sarajevo and Belgrade. Serbia with Bosnia. So let's set the record clear. Belgrade was the capitol city of Serbia located at the confluence of Sava and Danube rivers right ACROSS the river from A-H. Sarajevo was the biggest city in Bosnia and Herzegovina which was first an A-H protectorate (Ottomans lost the war in which Serbia gained the lands that connected them with the B&H, so A-H under pretext of protecting minorities set itself up as protector (so not a permanent solution) of those lands, which they then ANEXED at the begging of 20th century even though locals didn't want to be part of A-H).
So Austrians wanted to take Belgrade not Sarajevo. They allready had Sarajevo. And they were unlikely to get Belgrade quickly considering what a mess their invasion was IRL where they got their asses whooped TWICE by a tiny nation.
+Блажо Ђуровић Another interesting thing is how the good treatment bosnians recieved from the A-H empire led to them misjudging nazi germany and the independent state of croatia. They thought all "švabe" are good.
I absolutely love that you guys are following up the series with a whole episode and a half dedicated to mistakes! I knew that the sandwich story was likely hyperbole, but it's just such a good narrative that I can't blame you for running with it, like most things here.
The use of FFXI music seems pretty fitting!
I love that y'all are acknowledging your mistakes!
im so glad you made this series, in germany we get this story force fed in school (that of course doesnt mean that everybody knows it since it is school and considered boring by most because of it) but im really glad you refreshed my memories and taught us all about it :)
This is really awesome that you would do a breaking-down episode like this, while pointing out your errors in there. VERY VERY cool to do that.
How were you able to find the records about the smaller details of the crew that formed the assassination plot?
If you're gonna do East Asian history now too, at some point you should definitely cover the Japanese campaign on Korea in the 16th century and especially the Korean naval commander Yi Sun-shin, cause that guy is freaking awesome!
*****
They could, you know, just cover the war itself, like they did with the Punic War. That would definitely work. But I also think that making a series about those events specifically from the perspective of Yi Sun-shin himself would work really well. Plenty of personal drama and intrigue there...
*****
yea when it came to WW2, the main thing i learned was America was aiming not to get into the war, but once Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, America bared it's fangs. i was happy just getting my High School Diploma(and my school was happy to oblige and instead help me learn more work skills). honestly though, i would love to see them cover the pre-WW2 events. still excited to see the next series though, i only really know a very small amount about the warring states period(mainly names because of the Samurai Warriors games) but I'm to lazy to try and dig up info.
Oh yeah the guy who owned Hideyoshi
*****
Interesting side note: The Wikipedia article about the history of Japan says Hideyoshi might have known that he would lose the war and sent political opponents there so they can get killed at the front line.
I'm korean, so I guess it's only natural, but I would also be interested with any korean history stuff.
Thank you for coming honest. Never knowing anything about this war, I would have always believed certain facts to be true. Even with these mistakes, this was an awesome series.
Your Extra History series was already great, but you devoting a whole episode to analyze your own errors, cuts and narrative half-truths--that takes guts. Mad props!
I really just wanted to say, all throughout my school years I hated history classes. However, the more I listem to these two talk, I'm beginning to understand how that hatred was due more to a failing in our school systems than my own lack of interest.
You guys have a knack for making things interesting, or perhaps just presenting interesting material in a way that's digestible and engaging, so thank you for that.
I learned that history is more grey than 7th grade's more black and white outlook
AH MAN I AM SO READY FOR THE SERIES ON JAPAN'S WARRING STATES
I've been looking forward to this episode ever since you guys mentioned it in the stream, and I think you did a great job. I also think it takes guts just to call this episode lies and that only highlights the well placed confidence you have in your work.
Proud to be your patron :D
Thanks for taking the time to finish the series off and fixing any mistakes you guys made. It's really cool of you especially when you're so busy. And thanks for taking your camera with you on your trips. It seems like a lot of extra work for you to go through for James recommends and this. It's really cool to get to see (at least if it's only through a balcony window) all the places you go.
Edit: Can't wait for the one on Japan, not a lot of people cover history outside of the U.S. or central Europe.
Putting together a series as big as this, you're bound to make mistakes. kudos to you for acknowledging them :)
by the way, where are you right now? that place looks cool.
Oh and are you actually going to do the episode about Bismark?
I think my only suggestion might be a better mic situation for James here. Perhaps a lapel mic? The acoustics of the room don't really work for you here and on occasion you seem very muffled.
Just the fact that you folks put in the extra effort of making a "Lies" episode to correct yourself is reason enough for applause.
That there are so few corrections to make is also great.
Thank you very much for this whole channel!
James, I am impressed that you produced this follow-up video touching on issues raised in response to your WWI Seminal Event video series... it is impressive the amount of care you and your staff put into what I consider one of the best content that I have viewed here on TH-cam... please keep it up, you are making the world a better place for those of us that watch your product.
The aid-de-camp story is true! I found it in the Book "July 1914". They even name him!
I'm thinking that these videos may have a use in classrooms. It's a very engaging telling of the events before WWI. I had a conversation with my girlfriend about how comparatively bad our education about this had been. Not that they didn't mention the facts but it was so dry that nothing stuck. But if they're gonna be used that way, I think you're gonna have to correct some of these things. Not that I'm a teacher, but are you thinking these videos could/should be used in classrooms (or as homework assignment)?
Historian from New Zealand here, love your channel and recommend to everyone that I know! Please please please keep up the good work!
Warm regards,
John.
Just found this channel, honestly amazing stuff, great to see how over many years you've added segments but not forgotten your way. Love your work
ffxi intro and jeuno music, nice. I'd recognize that anywhere. Goodness knows I heard it enough. It's permanently etched into my brain. Gustaberg @5:38. Go Bastok! #1 this week on Shiva server.
Haha San d'Oria is the best... but just like you I knew where the songs came from right as I heard it.
Garuda server! :D
Always nice to see a fellow Bastoker, Bahamut server myself
Yea, the entire video was FFXI music :) made me so happy.
I was on Quetzalcoatl myself, still play now and then. It's still my favorite MMO for the people who played (one of the better communities ever) and the world/story it has.
lissening to this video sent me on a trip down memory lane, best 5 years of gaming ive ever had
i will rember you evermore vana'diel
As far as perspective goes ... Looking at the comments and people calling Serbians scumbags, because they did this "out of the blue" I feel like the Hubsburgs have been romanticized a bit. Austro-Hungaria was long waiting for a reason to declare war to, or annex Serbia for several reasons (and plus there were all the other reasons for WWI). First of all, Serbia was moving quickly away from Austro-Hungarian Empire to seek allies in Russia, Bulgaria and others because its economy was largely controlled and overseen by the Empire ... There were also tensions because Austro-Hungarian Empire annexed Bosnia, which had a large population of Serbs. Then, when Serbia tried to liberate parts of its trade (and economy) such as the pig trade (in what is called "The Pig War"), the Empire imposed heavy sanctions and tried to control customs to prevent trade. Then Serbia made allies with France which started supplying them with munitions and cannons, instead of Austro-Hungaria (mainly to fight the Balkan Wars). This caused a lot of tension in the area. Now I'm not saying Serbia is blameless in all this. Far from it. Everyone's to blame. I'm just saying there was a logical chain of events there, other than evil and crazy people (on an auspicious day) attacking the noble archduke (even though I myself do not find that Princip is a hero at all).
The thing that is true is that Franz Ferdinand had some pretty progressive ideas about how to reform the Empire, but for example he was racists towards Hungarians saying "The Hungarians are all rabble, regardless of whether they are
minister or duke, cardinal or burgher, peasant, hussar, domestic servant, or revolutionary".
+RobLucci i still think that raising a statue is rediculous, "WOOT WOOT, GO GO THAT DUDE WHO WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN STARTING WWI
+Eyes in Darkness People sorta see him as the liberator. Beforehand Serbia has not ruled itself for 500 years (and not only Serbia - all Balkan countries). Ottomans and Habsburgs rules these lands for a long time. After World War I ended most newly liberated Slavic lands on the Balkans united into a single kingdom.
RobLucci i think that that's remarkably self-centered of them.
Eyes in Darkness
I get where you're coming from. The fact is many previously independent countries got freed after World War I (Lands under Ottoman Empire, Austro-Hungaria ...). People see it that way. As a war for liberation. Many Empires crumbled. And they don't go down easy.
And do bear in mind for example that Serbia had the biggest proportional percentage of people lost during World War I (between 17-28% of total population died). And that didn't change the way people saw/see him in Serbia
RobLucci *sigh* I've always been a "needs of the many>needs of the few" person. not to mention that i feel like i tend to be more pragmatic than personal. oh, well, i do understand the position held by these people, but i can't exactly sympathize
Love extra history, and I think it's amazing that you would dedicate an episode to clearing up the facts. It really proves how much you care about really teaching about these moments, and not to give the full treatment but to inspire thought about it. I love your show and can't wait to see all the awesome stuff you do!
Dude, the good stuff you guys make way outweighs any mistakes slipped through. Come on, the fact that you come forward, your level of coolnes just went stratospheric! Super Siam mode. Hats down to you and thanks for doing such a great channel. Salute!
The show is awsome! PS this is something that slightly escapes the picture in this show - Europe was a lit powder keg waiting for any reason at all to blow, and it was screwed. There were conflicts over everything, trade-routes, territory, resources, Britain-Germany, France-Britain, Russia-Britain, Germany-Russia, France-Russia, and ofcourse France-Germany, a bonfire over the Balcans, Turkey and Iran being a constant ground for political (and real) fighting - War was iminent, arguably, since the beginning of the construction of the German railways in Turkey. All the shit was waaaay too fucked up to be resolved in any other way. There where approximately 7 cases where war could have started before the Ferdinand murder, and certainly if it would not be this - it'd be something else. But it is funny to examine under a microscope the little pebbles that set the landslide in motion.
Tsar/Czar vs Emperor. Which is the more apt title for Nicholas? If I had to pick, it would be Tsar. Besides, it doesn't really matter, as both titles are functionally equivalent to one another. In fact, I believe "Tsar" is actually the Russian name for "Caesar," going back to the belief Russia had at the time that they were the "Third Rome" after the Eastern Roman Empire fell.
Thanks for taking the time to do this, not just for the mistake corrections, it's really interesting to see the thought process that goes on behind the scenes. Keep up the good work!
I really appreciate you guys going over your mistakes and correcting them. This series was particularly engaging, and I learned a lot that isn't typically taught in school.
I do also appreciate the decision to continue using the title "Czar" in the episode. It did help the continuity of understanding, and it would have been a strange side-tangent to discuss the intentions behind the change. So good call.
I would love to see a similarly detailed series on the Iraq-Iran conflict (maybe even going as far back as 1951 elections or the 1953 coup), the US/Western involvement and the wars and conflicts that resulted from it to this day. It might not be directly comparable to WW1 but I think the effects this conflict has on the Middle East to this day is somewhat similar to WW1 and the effects on Europe (albeit on a smaller scale obviously). And most importantly, far fewer people (at least in the West) are familiar with those conflicts and "our" involvement than for example WW1.
Yes, Final Fantasy XI music!!
Bravo, Extra Credits/Remix/History. This is one of the coolest projects I've seen on TH-cam.
I like that they did this appendix episode. I think its important that they clarify their sources and stuff and it rounds the whole thing off nicely. I hope they do this again for their next Extra History series.
I hope there will be subtitle (at least automate generated) for this video!
Have some mercy for people with poor English Q_Q
I think this is one of your most important episodes in the Extra History series.
What is truth? What is fact? That is what Historians have to ask all the time, and the answer is not simple. Fact is not in history books. Fact is possible not a real thing at all. An exercise we had in my one class was we were given a fictional story. It was about a man who after falling and hitting his head could remember everything as if it were a photo. He could recount where everything was at any given time. It was to the point where he was so annoyed that we used repeating systems (A dog at 10:00 facing one direction, to him, was not the same dog facing the a different direction at 10:01, let alone time repeating to him was ludicrous, but I digress). We were asked if this was history. And the answer was no. History requires analysis. History requires your question and answer. Your understanding of how one thing leads to another. How the Seminal Tragedy becomes WWI. How the dog at 10:00 turns and is still the same dog at 10:01. And sometimes these "facts" that lead to the question, are not facts. They are information given by a biased source. That's how we get "Song of the South," it's information is based on a historical text on slavery by a man who asked former slave owners how they treated the slaves. That history is wrong, it's outdated, but now is useful as an evolution on the history of slavery (a historiography)... I'm rambling...
Karak12357 You are unfortunately wrong, probably mislead by teachers who were themselves mislead. There is a huge difference between the fundamental inability to know the whole truth about everything, and the nonsense of believing the truth doesn't exist. Great and good people may be flat out wrong about a fact, but the fact exist, even if no one actually knows. And that goes for every fact, including the ones I'm wrong about myself.
John Francis Doe While I don’t disagree with your general statement, I think it ignores one fundamental thing, namely that while there are facts, most of what we’re working with is interpretations. All the motives, explantations and causalities we establish, they’re interpretations, and often there isn’t a fact at the bottom of them. Why did X happen? Why did A do B? There will be facts that contribute to an answer, but the question can rarely be answered referring only to facts.
Thank you for making this series and even making this episode alone showcasing your mistakes it is rare for anyone to do this and it makes your videos even more informative which is amazing. Please please please keep this series up I think everyone on this video wants to see more of Extra History :).
I loved your WWI series, and now it got even better. Refreshingly objective. Great job.
12:02 Belgrade*
At 14:29(ish), this actually leaves a worse taste in my mouth than it does James'. As if war isn't really an act of hate, it's just a formality; just a custom. Like "hey man, no hard feelings, we can still be chums, but... we kind of have to go to war."
It depresses me that to these people, something involving so much death and tragedy could have been looked upon as 'just how the game is played'.
I think that it is less a question of the upcoming conflict being "how the game is played" and more that the man being asked to call off mobilization could not consider doing so as being caught without a ready army would mean the loss of the war for his nation. He just could not countenance the risk of his nation being defeated without a fight should his people's demobilization lead them open to the other side should they not also demobilize. There were likely other considerations too, but it sounds as if that was the major contributor to what lead to mobilization in the first place.
I think they both recognized at the end of that conversation that, due to the situation as it developed, they were, by then, past any point of no return and that much though they both regretted the upcoming violence, they could not forestall it.
At the same time though, they respected and/or cared about each other. I don't recall if they had some familial relationship or not but remember that these people likely had a great deal of contact with and respect for each other before this event in their respective functions and seem to have been friends or at least on good professional terms. Regrettable as what was coming would be, there was no reason to start frothing at the mouth and stabbing each other. Showing kindness to someone who happened to be from an opposing country in a war that you had both tried to avoid is not something to take amiss.
James is saying very much the opposite. He says that Pourtales wept as he handed over the declaration of war, because he understood the death and tragedy that it meant. He didn't want the nations to go to war. But it doesn't mean that the two men there have to lose their humanity, they can still treat each other with respect and kindness. It's like the Christmas truce as this very war unfolded, where soldiers on both sides ceased hostilities and came together as bothers to celebrate Christmas.
flawless_cowboy I see your point. It remains a tragedy they wars still happen in spite of these feelings, but I suppose that's a tragedy on the part of many many people, unable to reconcile their desires for war and or peace with one another.
I actually forgot about the Christmas Truce while watching this series. Quite the shame, really. Here's hoping they eventually do the actual war, as well as The Treaty of Versailles.
I really liked this. It's good to own up to mistakes rather than letting them sit in the older vids. Plus, this kind of addendum video adds more depth and dimension to the subject of the videos. I hope that we can see a similar video after the next set of history videos! Its almost like a personal touch.
Woo! I cant wait for your coverage of Japan's Warring States period. As to the WWI material, I've loved all of it and it honestly sticks in my head a lot better than it did in high school.
2:22 Oooh, pretty sure you meant Sevres and not Versailles since Sevres was with the Ottoman empire while Versailles was with Germany.
Bennings yeah
Bennings Oh, that's news to me. I was never taught that there was more than one peace treaty at the end of WW1. Will have to check.
You still failed to address a critical mistake, Sarajevo was not the capital of Serbia. This is a huge mistake because at the time Sarajevo was within Austria-Hungary, so they certainly didn't need to conquer it :P
It is doubly funny because you corrected the Moscow-St.Petersburg mistake while showing the Moscow-Sarajevo picture, for the benefit of others, the capital was (and is) Belgrade.
I thought it was the Sykes - Picot treaty that determined how the lines in the Middle East were drawn.
I think the way you acknowledge your mistakes and provide the right ones are amazing. It shows that you guys care about the information you are giving and that you guys are serious in teaching us a lesson in history. Thanks and keep doing a good work!
If you're covering all bits of history like this, will you please please at some point cover the conquest of Alexander the Great? How he united Asia, brought advanced teachings to lesser-developed countries, paved the way for modern thinking... it's something not really talked about that I think needs some attention.
Alexander would fit the format quite well. His biography is fascinating. A Homeric hero made flesh.
nikolaast
Hey, there's drama to be found in troops who love their leader coming to despise him after one too many tiring conquest. There's always something beneath the surface.
Fergus Ager there's speculation to that story. It might have been fabricated to put the blame on alexander's troops for his return to Babylon. Nevertheless, saying that Alexander was only tourching cities is quite ignorant and shows a biased and wrong interpretation of hostory. Alexander rebuilt most of the cities he conquered. A lot of the "evil" actions his critics point out were quite sane acts of warfare.
Overall, he deserves his title and isn't overrated.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Alexander the Great not covered enough? He's the most admired general in history. He's been debated and studied for literally thousands of years, including by other "great men" of history like Pompey and Caesar.
nikolaast
Nonsense. Just because his empire fell, doesn't mean that his accomplishment fell too. Alexandria in Egypt was a hotspot throughout ancient history, you can write a whole book on it's importance. Alexander rules two worlds, the greek, his model of government, as you said, inspired many great people in history. As an individual, he is one of the most important people in history and without his conquests, the world would've been a very different place. WIthout the greek empire we might not have adopted greek culture. Imagine how different Europe would've been if our government, art and language was founded on persian, carthagenian of egyptian model.
I do agree that he was just one man, but he wasn't just a warmonger.
I also disagree that we shouldn't talk about him only because of his huge popularity. History should be examined constantly.
Except for the "Last time in modern history." Part about people seeing that they didn't have to hate their enemy because their country did. I bring the first Christmas of WWI. Where 10s of thousands of men stop fighting for the week between Christmas and New Years. They shared songs, stories of their families, food, remorse etc. Hell, there a multiple accounts of burying each other's dead out of respect and giving rations to each other. 1 story talks about soldiers finding wild animals and going hunting with enemy soldiers and them having Christmas dinner together in the rain and the mud. In the middle of No Man's land. In fact, a term made for the places where they stopped fighting and, instead, celebrated together is All Man's Land.
This was an amazing series. I watched the whole thing again today with my mum and she said it helped her to understand the start of the war in a way that she never had when learning it at school. Thanks James and everyone at EC and I'm psyched to see the next epsiode :D
Great last words James. Really happy you guys decided to do more episodes of Extra History and can't wait for the Sengoku episodes.
I think it is wrong to believe that WWI could have been prevented if Franz Ferdinand's assassination had been averted.
Just as wrong as believing that bailing out Lehman Brothers could have avoided the subprime mortgage meltdown in 2009.
To me the stage was set for an international confrontation of magnitude - so if Franz and consort had returned safely to Vienna, some other cassus belli would have triggered the storm. You focused on a few well-intended people who tried to make diplomacy prevail, but why not talk of all the falcons, avengers, warmongers, martinets and profiteers who fanned the flames ?
Read about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I and in particular how the great imperial powers acted, trying to snatch colonies from each other. Thanks for the animated narration and your perspective on these events.
franz ferdinand wanted slavs to have special rights like hungarians, and he got kiled. there is literally no reason for gavrillo to have a statue.
That is true, but the Slavs could not know that. And also, Franz had very poor opinion of Slavs, comparing them with no more then a pigs, but he was smart enough to realise that his state is at a big crises and the only way to make Bosnia under Austrio-Hungaria in the future is to give Slavs more rights
They could not know... back then - and even that is debatable. But nowadays, they certainly can. So it's just misinformation spreading. (unless Franz really thought that little of Slavs, in which case I can understand why Gavrilo would get a statue)
I love this series. I was introduced by the Sengoku Jidai, but ending my play through back to the Seminal Tragedy really made me appreciate the work you guys put into Extra Credit History. I'll always look forward to your videos on these kinds of topics.
This is a great addendum to a great series.
I love the presentation, and how entertaining and dynamic it is, but I also love the factual storytelling session presented here.
My opinion? Keep it up. Have the dramatic storytelling in Extra History segment itself, while making it as factual as you can, and then have James go over what got fudged or overlooked in a separate segment after the series is over. Providing links to some hardcore research material is a spiffy idea as well.
This is a really interesting segment and I'm super excited for more. :)
IS THAT YOUR FUCKING HOUSE?!!!
nope, he's in Norway for a few weeks on an adventure.
That Son of a B@tch got a statue!?
It is quite weird and interesting that a terrorist got a statue
*Bosnian nationalism
Also, imagine if this happened 15 to 30 years later. Europe probably
wouldn't exist or at least MAD would cause tons of suppression for
decades because no one has the guts or even should to save the citizens of Austria/Hungary.
L. MathObsessor The guy is a Bosnian Serb, so Serbian Nationalism
yugoslav actualy, gavrilo hated the fact that serbs croats and slovenians identified as three seperate people.
I love how an episode entitled "Lies" has nothing but a picture of James for the thumbnail.
Thanks for the info, James! I find your series much more enjoyable than any history class I've had so please keep up the good work, and I look forward to the next episode.
Just going to finish up watching your world war 1 stuff, then I am done with you guys, the anti-gamergate stance... kind of a deal breaker for me ATM.
you honestly think journalism is what makes games successful? Even if ZQ sucked off the right people to get depression quest known it didn't do jack. On steam the game is mass down voted because the game sucked and a game that didn't get publicity that is very good would get known by word of mouth, ie: minecraft, runescape, etc.
Well then its your loss isn't it.
Pyropardus I take it you've read their whole argument: www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sdctdn
Seems pretty rational. I don't know what you don't approve.
Oh, how narrow minded you and your gamergate friends are....
What does that have to do with this? Also, I read the Twitlonger argument. It's surprisingly sympathetic to people who are part of the movement who aren't sexist dickbags.
Can't wait fr more Extra History episodes you guys do. It's so awesome.
I saw the entire WI series in one sitting. I loved it. You've got me hooked, just like in extra-credits - and I'm not even a game designer or player. Kudos.
I decided to sub on Patreon because you released this video. It showed your seriousness when it comes to this series. Thank you.
Thank you Extra Credits for making this video shedding light on the mistakes you made. Even with the mistakes, I liked the videos. So please do not let this discourage you from making more Extra History.
As much as I love you guys owning up to mistakes, and providing this frame for your videos, I'd totally be ok with longer production times if it means less mistakes.
I really enjoy this series and I am glad its continuing. Keep up the good work
I'm realy glad that you made this episode as well as the series in general. Excellent work.
great supplementary video. can't wait for shigoku joudai series. you guys derserve a whole lot more views in general, but on the history series in particular.
I had a history professor that taught history like you. He would make it relatable, as if you could put yourself in that position and ask what would I do. Please keep doing what you do for the sake of knowledge.
Extra Credits always get my respect for, not only being willing to admit mistakes, but would take steps to address them like making this video.
Bravo!
Chiming in to let you know that this is an awesome series. I'm really excited for the Warring States videos! Keep up the great work everyone!
It's great to see us guys man up to you mistakes. Great job guys keep it up!
Acknowledging and owning up to mistakes has earned you another subscriber.
I respect you for going back over these things. It show the depth of work and care you put into the series and goes a long way for its legitimacy. I really enjoy the channel and the extra history sections. BTW please make a playlist for Extra history or for each sub series. Sending the videos to teachers of mine so they might inspire history in their students which lets me say even though you already know this that there are some advantages to keeping the profanity to a minimum. I appreciate the value of historical quotes and maybe the best thing would to put the quote at the bottom of the screen or just put the whole video frame in quotes when this is the case, just something to take into consideration. I think the videos have the quality to not be used just for gamers but for inspiring history even in non gamers, which is why I think the history videos should primarily use references that most people will get to some degree, not to say you have not been doing a great job at that, so they will be generally appealing. Donating a bit and want to donate more when I can. Keep it up!
I love this series as a whole. I greatly enjoyed studying history in high school, and truly fell in love with the subject in college; so much so that I majored in it. Stories like the ones mentioned in this World War I series are a big part of why. Too often do I hear people say history is boring or dry, and it's just remembering names and dates. But that's not the real importance. The importance is the stories of humanity, of tragedy and heroism of all shapes, sizes, and colors, and seeking the truth of *why* things happened the way they did. And that finding the real truth isn't always easy: figures and events are often subject to interpretation and bias. It's a deep, complex subject that tells the story of humanity, in hubris and in humility, at our best and worst... and more importantly, every single gray area in between.
So thank you for producing this series, and thank you *especially* for including segments about mistakes you might have made, or pointing out half-truths or murkier details. That is a sign of a deep respect for the subject matter and a serious intent to educate others, especially when it's easier to just ignore that and move on.
With that in mind, *please do* a segment on the Treaty of Versailles someday. You touched upon a number of points about it that I studied and wrote papers about in college, and I firmly believe it's the most politically important document in the Twentieth Century. It's a perfect thing to point to when people demand to know why history matters: because it lays the foundation of our modern world. I think understanding that particular document is paramount to understanding the world we live in today.
Great choice of music! Love FFXI.
Also really appreciate the transparency in the video. good show!
Very cool summary of things! I'd love to see more of these at the end of future Extra History projects. Not even necessarily just as an acknowledgement of how sourceable some of the facts are, but as a bit of a retrospective on the topic as a whole and some more personal/informal thoughts and recommendations.
you're the man, you always gotta fill in some gaps when explaining history. love these videos
James you're such a good speaker! I wish you would do more live episodes I really enjoyed that :) Especially the part about "just because your countries can't find a way to agree doesn't mean you have to hate your enemies" :)