Following up on the question about Tegetthoff, if we assume a Central Power victory in WW1 and thus Austria-Hungary being still in extistence in the 1920ies and 30ies, could the Tegetthoff-class have been modernized as radically as the Italian 12inch dreadnoughts, or were they simply too small for this? If you were given this task and alotted a very generous budget - but still within realistic limitations - how would the ships emerge with regards to main and secondary battery, AA, speed and armour?
As to divers on board, in the US Navy generally only salvage ships have divers. But there was a time when I served on a Destroyer Escort and the Captain was concerned with having some sailors store their recreational air tanks onboard citing some sort of safety risk and ordered them to be taken off the ship. About 2 weeks later we were doing a tow and be towed excercise with another DE and as we were towing the ship the line parted as they sometimes do under strain. The towing line wrapperd around our screw and shaft and only having one screw on the DE we became dead in the water (DIW). It wasn't long before the Captain came over the 1MC and sheepishly asked if any of the crew had any diving equipment onboard and could they please take a look at the towing line. Lo and behold several sets of gear, tanks and all were produced by a Chief and a Leutenent JG. After about an hour of struggling they managed to unfoul the screw. We never heard anything again from the Captain about diving gear for the rest of my time aboard that ship.
A famous incident of this kind had a major effect on history. On December 6, 1941, a line from a destroyer had wrapped itself around a shaft on the cruiser Northampton, delaying Halsey's task force with the carrier Enterprise, which would otherwise have been at Pearl Harbor for the next morning's attack.
Just watched and truly enjoyed the USS Alabama episode.. when you manned the 20 mm How did you keep from yelling DakaDakaDakaDaka ..? It must be the mark of a true professional..
Re: "rivalries" between crew and aviators on aircraft carriers… My Dad flew F6F-5's with VF-19 aboard the USS Lexington in the summer and fall of 1944 during the Philippine campaign, including Leyte Gulf. The squadron history has nothing but positives to say about the ship's crew, and "rivalries" appear to have been limited to the very frequent basketball games that took place on the hangar deck between combat operations.
The carrier air group includes all the enlisted personnel who maintain the aircraft. Also in WWII there were enlisted flying as gunners, radio operators etc. Before the war, enlisted pilots were common. This continued into the war (Butch O’Hara was such an enlisted pilot and in fact earned his Medal of Honor before he was promoted to officer rank)
The nearest naval equivalent to the Light Fighter Mafia is the modern Small Warship Mafia that incidentally popped up around the same time as the Air Forces clique. They were the ones championing hydrofoil missile boats that resulted in the Pegasus class being built (and then massively truncated in numbers ordered) and continue today with their most recent shenanigans being the LCS program.
Depending on where the timeline is drawn, the Japanese cruiser Unebi could be listed as a lost-without-trace warship. She was a protected cruiser of 3,600 tons, built in France and completed in 1886. She set out for her delivery voyage to Japan in October of that year, but never arrived, vanishing without trace somewhere in the South China Sea. The most likely explanation is that Unebi capsized in rough weather because she was top-heavy because of her excessive armament (four 24-cm guns and seven 15-cm guns).
I'm a 69yr old Brit who's best mate Tony Ash(who had fallen from a tree onto iron railings)qualified as a RN diver and travelled the world and seeing a lot of mud if not sand 😂😂😂 as he put it,
@ 1:01:00. The USS Bon Homme Richard (CV-30) was named after John Paul Jones' frigate of the US Revolutionary War fame. (Also the only single ship .vs.. single ship engagement where the victorious Ship sank while the defeated ship remained afloat!). JPJ's ship was a reference to Ben Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanack due to Franklin's efforts that got the former merchantman turned into a frigate (of sorts). It was not directly named after Ben Franklin....
1:38:00 Having many smaller sails also removes the need (at least most of the time) for reefing in sails; powered reefing for fore-and-aft sails roll up the sail inside either the mast or the boom, and a square-rig boom with the internal space for a roller reefing system would be much larger and bulkier, and as you point out, sending topmen up to haul in the sails to the reef points is not an option with the reduced crews on modern clippers. More smaller sails allows for power dousing, setting, and reefing while keeping the individual booms to a more manageable size.
2:05:15 - A good example of a ship (well, in this case technically a boat) that was scuttled due to battle damage without anyone going down with the ship would be USS _Perch,_ which was severely damaged by Japanese depth charges in the Java Sea early in 1942; nobody died, but the damage wrecked three-quarters of her powerplant and left her unable to dive while she was well within hostile waters, so she was scuttled and abandoned by her crew after she came under attack by five Japanese surface warships. Everyone on board made it off and was taken prisoner by one of the Japanese warships in question, so _Perch's_ wreck wasn't a war grave (I say "wasn't" because the wreck no longer exists).
I know this is a warship channel. I have seen the one surviving whaleback, SS Meteor at Superior WI. One issue why they didn't work as merchanmen is that it was diffcult to extract goods from the holds because of their shape, Much less of the hold was available via the hatches. This was a problem since most of the Great Lakes trade, where they flurished was devoted to bulk cargos.
32:44 During the 1956 Suez crisis, the Israeli navy captured the Egyptian destroyer Ibrahim el-Awal after disabling the rudder and turbo generator. The Ibrahim el-Awal was originally a British destroyer from WW2.
As a former crewmember of USS, John C. Stanis, I can say, with absolute certainty, that the vast majority of the enlisted crew did not like the pilots. Nor did ships company much care for the air wing. I worked in the propulsion plant and some of the antics of those on the flight deck Annoyed us. Primarily because it had us starting and stopping equipment unnecessarily. So now, in the modern navy black shoe sailors (surface sailors), and the brown shoe navy (pilot, etc.) do not get along.
Drach- with regard to your discussion of boarding parties... The opposite side of the coin question would be why do we not see any ships surrendering in more modern-day age of steam and steel battles as we did in age of sail. I have often wondered why von Spee, for example, at the Falklands, or Lutjens on Bismarck, when faced with an impossible situation did not surrender rather than sacrifice thousands of his crewmen? Through their ships would have been captured (well Bismarck would likely have been scuttled) but this was also the case in the age of sail. Thanks.
I'm only speculating, but my guess is at least one factor is the increase in technology built into warships as the age of steam and steel progressed. In the age of sail, the technology of the ships was virtually universal, so there was really no question of any secrets to steal. But moving into the 20th century, nations' warships housed their most modern and increasingly secret technology, which navies increasingly didn't want falling into enemy hands. Another factor may have been that, with steam-and-steel warships, it's harder to get a clear sense of how badly damaged or disabled ana enemy ship actually is. In an age-of-sail battle, it's usually pretty obvious if a ship that strikes its colors in no longer capable of serious resistance (masts and yards shot away, shot holes visible in the hull, etc.). But with more modern warships, its most likely harder to discern if a "surrendering" ship is actually disabled before being lured into potentially point-blank range of unseen weapons that are still functional.
Yeah, maybe a nice topic for a special, Drach? They where perfecting the technology right under the nose of the Nazi's, and Jacques himself was part of the French resistance. For sure some interesting tidbits are present in that history.
1:52:00 There is a joke that I first ran across in one of Dan Gallery's books (Daniel V. Gallery, RADM USN (ret), the commander of the USS Guadalcanal during the capture of the U-505), the gist being that the sailor who was speaking could understand what the aviators did to earn their fifty percent flight pay, but he didn't see what they did to earn their base pay.
whalebacks had a lot of issues with scaling up the hullform to increase internal space, and couldn't work with mechanical unloaders and the seals didn't always work so they could flood pretty badly since they have like 3 feet of freeboard. they worked great as sealed barges on the great lakes since you can pull them along in any weather
When I was in the Navy in the 1970s I was assigned to Combat Camera Group Atlantic. This group was established during WWWII and tasked with motion and still photography on board ships and naval shore engagements. Edward Steichen, a professional photographer of renown, instigated the creation of this group. Much of the series “Victory at Sea” used photography originating from this group. Alas the group has been decommissioned.
47:00 Even on the Great Lakes, the whaleback design saw very limited usage, mainly restricted to barges. It seems odd how many people know this design, given how short a time it was in use together with the limited production.
One thing to remember is that during the age of wood and sail is just how hard it was to sink a wooden ship using solid shot. Later when ships were made of Iron or steel sinking a ship became much easier especially with explosive shells
For a missing ship, there’s also the sloop HMS Begonia., which disappeared in September 1917. She may have been sunk by a U-boat taht didn’t return from patrol, but that's far from certain.
Even before the US entered the war both the War and Navy Departments established the Combat Camera program. Most of the footage from Midway happened because Captain John Ford and his crew happened to be there.
Something I didn't think of when asking the question about post Dreadnought VTE ships is that in addition to the dreadnoughts I had specifically asked in the question there was also some semi dreadnoughts completed post Dreadnought with VTEs. Now obviously the Brits have enough dreadnoughts that the Lord Nelsons having a VQE or even turbines isn't going to do much in the grand scheme of things, even dreadnought herself wasn't in the grand fleet by Jutland but some of the smaller powers that didn't have as many dreadnoughts as the RN like the Austro-Hungarians or the Russians might have benefitted from the Radetsky or post Tsushima Borodino spinoffs being VQE or even turbine
And the Italians also had a ship named after him launched in 1933, and the British had a ship named after him launched in 1915 (and scrapped in 1921). So both the British and Austrian’s (and French later) had a ship named after the same guy in service at the same time on opposite sides… So over a half century, six different navies had different ships operating named after exactly the same guy.
wrt the Tegetthoff, as Drac said, it appears to have been mostly a matter of cost, for what were not particularly good battleships. After the war, many Austrian destroyers and torpedo boats were allocated to Italy, Greece, Romania and Yugoslavia. Many of these ships served their new owners well into the 1930s. Italy did not have a huge inventory of destroyers, like the US did after the war, and embarked on a significant destroyer building program through the 20s. Italy was also putting down a rebellion in Libya. Even if Italy had done some horse trading with France to get both Tegetthoffs, potentially to use one as spares for the other, battleships were not a priority for Italy at the time, iirc, I did read somewhere along the line that the Italians did strip the heavy guns off of Tegetthoff for use as shore batteries.
@@godofprocurement It was on August 21, 1945. Navy Lt. Cmdr. Livingston Swentzel, Jr. and Marine Corps 1st Lt. Stuart Pittman were in command of the two junks, traveling from Hainan to Shanghai. They had with them 20 Chinese guerillas. They were attacked by another junk, manned by Japanese with a 75mm howitzer. The fight involved exchange of machine gun fire. Swentzel, Pittman, and surviving guerillas used bazookas to knock out the howitzer, closed to close range, and with a volley of hand grenades boarded and captured the junk. Swentzel won the Navy Cross and Pittman the Silver Star for this action.
Well I'm pretty sure the reason 21 knots was the speed of the US standards was because it was the speed of the last pre standards(New York class) so if a VQE put it up to 22 or 23 knots than presumably all the standards would be based on that speed.
Thank you, thank you. I have been fighting this battle for several years on Reddit and Quora Trying to convince people about everything you covered. I just about get them there, when someone will say "but sun szu says" and I'll have to start all over and then get into sun szu also.
A major technicality on large missing warships: the closest to capital ship would be Sao Paulo breaking loose in a storm while being towed to be scrapped in 1951. While it was concluded that she'd have foundered within an hour of her tow lines breaking no one knows for certain what happened when visual contact with her was lost and she vanished with an 8 man caretaker crew aboard.
Regarding boarding actions in the age of steam I actually think the reason they stopped is very simple: The range and power of the main armament. In the age of sail engagement ranges were so short that it was a very realistic prospect for vessels to actually get within boarding range. Even very powerfully armed ships couldn't stop a determined attacker at range most of the time. That all changed with the rifled shell gun. Especially later in the era of steam and steel, say ww1, it wasn't so much a question of not being able to get into boarding range anymore, as even getting within five kilometers was now essentially point blank range. All the other problems listed do contribute, but they could have been worked around at least to a degree. Anti-personel weapons on the enemy ship could be suppressed using your own such weapons, metal hatches and bulkheads could be dealt with using breaching demolition charges or even cutting torches and so on. All the other problems can be mitigated or dealt with, but the problem of getting into range is absolute.
HMAS Sidney would be a good reminder how even a moderately armed hilfskreuzer can do devastating damage at short range when positioning your warship in a boarding position.
@@Tuning3434 yep, that was my thought exactly. At that range even a BB would have taken significant damage, just look at what happened to the Hiei at Guadalcanal.
OH! RIGHT HERE! For the question at 1:57:48 I have but one warship that has disappeared without a trace during the Age of Steam and Steel. The Japanese protected cruiser Unebi, which disappeared in December of 1886. Runner ups that technically disappeared, inasmuch that no one survived and no one witnessed them go down, is the Spanish protected cruiser Reina Regente, which presumably sank in a severe storm in March of 1895 having last been seen passing the Strait of Gibraltar. The other, ex-Brazilian battleship Sao Paulo, while underway to the scrapyard in November of 1951, broke her tow line in a storm and was never seen again; her crew of eight caretakers for the tow also going missing. I don't really count those two since it can be arrived at their cause of disappearance, unlike Unebi which just up and vanished without a trace.
24:15 my grand Dad did service at the Copenhagen coastal defense, sometime in the late thirties. He told me that basically the 8" guns hit at 3. Shot. The howitzers could not hit 💩
Not sure about back then, but on both of the carriers i served on, there wasn't much direct interaction between a lot of the crew and the air-wing. and in the modern age, they were only ever on board for short underway periods and deployments. always saw the crew and the air-wing get along rather well outside of the occasionally oddity because of the separate commands. the crew and the air-wing vs. the ship's master at arms on the other hand..... 43min: I have noticed that when people look at ships designed for operating on the great lakes, they don’t always give a lot of attention to lakes themselves as a mitigating factor. The lakes are pretty small compared to oceans and can have some incredibly violent weather which the ships simply have to deal with. They can’t deviate from their course, the lakes aren’t that big. I believe the biggest selling point about Whalebacks was they were seen as a way to mitigate the problems of maintaining way in heavy seas, especially with towed barges. I imagine as the size of the ships increased, along with the ease of getting engines in ships, the issue with the hatches vs. the available loading/unloading methods outweighed any benefits. 1h: wasn’t Bonhomme Richard was named for one of John Paul Jones’ ships?
CV Franklin was not named (directly) for Ben Franklin. Carriers at the time were named for battles or historic ships. The battle of Franklin, Tennessee was fought late in the US Civil War. It is noted that the crew nevertheless referred to her as "Big Ben". And, as is noted, Bonhomme Richard was named for the ship.
I had read the same thing in A.A. Hoehling's The Franklin Comes Home. The Naval History and Heritage Command denies this, stating it is named for Ben Franklin. As Drach made no comment in dispute of the NHHC version, I take it that we were both taken in by what seems a very logical, but inaccurate, story.
@@jeffreybaker4399 As a side note, the mistaken belief that Franklin was named for Ben was reportedly why the CV42 was named Roosevelt, since the public believed that Franklin was a precedent for naming carriers after famous people, and the next carrier launched was renamed Roosevelt (I think she was originally planned to be USS United States, but I'm not sure of that.)
The characterization that the potential difficulties between the ships crew and the air wing are due to the fact that pilots are officers is ridiculous. When I served on the Kitty Hawk the ships company was around 2800 and the air wing aound 2300. I assure you that most of the air wing were enlisted as were most of the ships company. Pilots were indeed officers, but I think there were as many officers in ships company as there were in the air wing, and not all officers in the air wing ware pilots. Difficulties among the crew were not any worse than between deck division and engineering divisions or gunnery divisions on any ship. Friendly rivalries, "designated" bars in certain ports where one gang or another usually got refreshment. If there were any issues with "pilots" it would have been within the air wing since pilots would rarely see ships crew. (Officers had their own gangway, their own mess, and air wing accomodations were not mixed with ships crew).
wrt the question about Force H, in late 41, Somerville's flagship was Malaya. Reportedly he was displeased at having such and old, slow, ship. I worked out a scenario where Prince of Wales put in at Gibraltar to become flagship, while Malaya steamed around Africa, and, with Revenge, relieved QE and Valiant in Alexandria. QE and Valiant then steaming for Singapore as Force Z, but those old QEs were too slow to make the timing work out.
Race in military -- Ely Parker, a Seneca Indian (think "Last of the Mohegans" geographically) who wrote out the official copy of the terms of surrender which was signed by Grant and Lee. Grant had to explain to Lee that Parker was a Seneca Indian and not black so as to make it appear like a middle finger to Lee. Robert E. Lee a slave holder who is revered by reimagining historians as a saint had escaped slaves lashed 50 times and brine poured in their wounds.
Q&A in this drydock you talk about possible frictions betwen the flight crew and the standart crew on aircraft carriers. You say that they sometimes come to blows. What happens in these cases? Can you give examples ?
The KuK was so starved for victories that they named a cruiser after a landing action where only 100 of their countrymen fought under RN command, Saida - Sidon, and another one for their inconclusive skirmish against Denmark at Helgoland.
One of the major reasons that ship design costs rise so dramatically is the increase in bureaucracy. Many decades ago, the King or Admiralty had to approve designs, as time went by dozens of departments and hundreds of people need to review and micromanage every nail and bolt.
The introduction of steam led to the introduction of stokers who came from a different part of society. It also led to the introduction of engineers, leaders differing from officers in social background and education. Books, some of them good reads, have been written about the results
According to a law of mathematical ballistics (Tartaglia's Rule), a gun's maximum range is achieved by an elevation to 45°. Were there any major warships (light cruisers[6"guns] and up) that could elevate their guns to that angle? This would be most useful for shore bombardment/naval gunfire support of troops.
The automatic 6”/47guns on USN Worcesters could elevate to 78 degrees, the 6”/47 guns on the USN Cleveland’s were increased to 60 degrees after ‘43, RN Tigers’ 6”/50s could elevate to 80 degrees, and 6”/45s on RN Belfast elevate to 60 degrees (there are photos of Belfast elevated more than 45 degrees). These were considered to be DP guns hence the high elevation.
As a side note, in the presence of drag, if the projectile does not produce significant lift, the maximum range is achieved with elevation smaller than 45 °.
no its not. a projectiles range can be extended by adding lift. but the 45 degree thing is simple math. if you lob a bomb or shell at a given velocity, all else being equal 45 debrees will give the furthest throw
Ironically, a new auto-loading 5.25” mount postwar was planned and had a 70 rpm rate of fire. But it was killed off by the advent of the guided missile.
Surprised you didn't mention HMS King George V and HMS Emperor of India of WW1 vintage in the section of ships named after / in honour of the same person.
Re names in the Armada. Assuming the number of Spanish ships wrecked on the coasts was less than those sunk by the vast number of dog-noise-named ships, can we say England's Bark was worse than it's bight...?
01: 47 (ish) Old ships .vs. new ships designation. I forget where I saw it (1970s or so) but I do remember seeing US and RN pre-dreadnoughts being labeled with a B and Dreadnought (and the S.C.s) onward being labeled with BB. I don't know if this was from some official document, or just the author's way of designating the now obsolete (or very obsolete) ships from the newer and better ships..... Also, how likely could have the USS South Carolina class battleships beaten the HMS Dreadnought as the first all big gun main battery battleships?
Related to that, according the Shattered Sword, there was a newsreel photographer aboard the Akagi who filmed the American dive-bomber attack on her, but the film was unfortunately lost in the subsequent fire. It's interesting to think that such a crucial moment might actually have been preserved on film...although given Japanese tendencies with their WWII records, it probably would have been destroyed after the battle anyway.
A modern sailing ship can't possibly afford the crew numbers present in the past. The sails may be partially or wholely automated with power winches and lines as in pleasure boats. A smaller lightweight sail will respond better to light wind as a spinaker. A great big heavy canvas sail will need a blow to inflate it.
In relation to the fighter mafia question. If the fighter mafia had existed back when the jeune ecole doctrine was created, they would have completely opposed it. The jeune ecole was very much about the integration of the self-propelled torpedo. A new and modern weapon, for its time, that allowed smaller warships to punch way above their weight class. And like the fighter mafia do not want missiles, and other modern stuff like radar and encrypted radio, a fighter mafia in 1870's france would say that the navy should only use cannons.
17:05 the US Army coastal artillery branch used, for a while, a 12" mortar for coastal defense. It was developed specifically to provide that kind of plunging gire against the deck, and some survived to, and saw action in, World War 2. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-inch_coast_defense_mortar
Interesting. I guess it adds to the effectiveness / ineffectiveness of shore installations. The drawbacks of a mortar like armament are the same drawbacks as a fixed shore emplacement, so I guess there is not a lot to loose unlike for a ship.
Developed around 1900 these mortars have two advantages: 1. Deck armor was thin or nonexistent then. 2. Because of their high angle fire the mortars could be hidden behind terrain features or in pit and thus unreachable by low angle of fire naval rifles. And two disadvantages Short range due to #2 and inaccuracy because of the long flight time. As the range and accuracy of naval guns and the thickness of deck armor increased, the mortars advantages disappeared.
Howitzer ships in UAD only work because it's literally playing the game mechanics. Firstly, the enemy AI is not very smart and often allows for weird ideas like this to work, secondly the gunnery is based on RNG. If the RNG rolls for a successful hit then it takes shell trajectory into account regardless how weird this trajectory was. So if the angle of attack is enough, it'll assign the hit to the deck instead of the belt. On an engine where the shell trajectory is tracked, this kind of hit would be only a matter of pure luck because it'd be attacking not the ship, but the area the ship is passing and obviously ships in combat almost always move. On land howitzers work because they are used against stationary positions and as much as having an artillery piece self-propelled and capable of moving right after firing is enough to drastically reduce effectiveness of counter-battery fire. With WW I/ WW II fire controls I don't think it'd be even possible to reliably hit targets with a howitzer ship.
I found it interesting that the segment on race around 15 mins in focused so heavily, or rather entirely on black sailors. "The War Illustrated" a wartime publication prominently featured Indian casualties along side the rest. They had their own officers and everything. Wouldn't the number of Indians in the British mainland even, nevermind the Dominions, dwarf the number of black Brits by 100-1 if not more? Considering Britain and India's established military ties and defense interests, such as actually having Indian fleets for 300 years of history, I thought for sure any talk of race in the Royal Navy would be about that relationship.
A questiob nrelated the question about friction between pilots (officers) and crews (enlisted), would be friction between the air-wing (officer and enlisted) and ship's company (officer and enlisted). How much interaction is/was there and how good or bad was it most commonly.
I'd be careful about the pilots (officers) and crews (enlisted) distinction, at least in the RAF you could have a bomber crew with a sergeant pilot and a commissioned flight engineer, navigator etc. In the air the sergeant pilot was in command even if on the ground military regulations required he deferred to his flight engineer, navigator.
Well they're operating in different Command structure and berthing. They're not doing the same watches. They're not berthing together. There's interaction in the mess and Ward rooms. Then again, even on a ship's crew. Different departments don't Mix much. Weapons people are not hanging with the engineering people. Your person who's in the laundry, is not traveling to CiC.
The 1880 and 1890 saw the rise of Social Darwinism and the related ideas of Eugenics. Ideas that postulated a hierarchy between groups and societies as well as individuals. This would influence the attitudes of society as both were popular in academia at the time. And both ideas have racist type ideas at their core.
Policies of "progressives" like Woodrow Wilson, who reversed moves made by Roosevelt in civilian hiring, solidified such racism in the U.S military. Funny how actual racism in policy is such a hallmark of Democrats.
@@hakanbergvall9777 That's a study that is full of holes though. Its methodology is poor (using IQ as a measure of anything is suspect, for a myriad of reasons, and even if you assume that IQ is a useful measure of anything, their statistical evidence is still weak and superficial). It raises some worthy questions, but there's not much you can learn from it as both its premises and conclusions are suspect.
The Bon Homme Richard Was not named after Franklin it actually comes from his book Poor Richards Almanac Which was the French translation of the book's title. As Franklin was such a popular character in France John Paul Jones named his new ship after the book's title. So in reality the carrier was named after a United States Navy ship from 1778 that was named after the a book written by Franklin in its French title . So while closely connected ,consider poor Richard as Ben Franklin's nom de plume The carrier was named after the US Navy ship that fought the Serapis in 1778 where Jones uttered his quote I have not yet begun to fight. So as back then the US Navy named its carriers after historic battles and famous ships of the revolution and the early Navy it was not named after Franklin it was named after John Paul Jones's ship. convoluted as that sounds. So imagine an HMS Shakespeare and an HMS Fallstaff. During the Napoleonic Wars the fall staff takes three French ship of the lines and in 1905 Fisher decides to name a new battle cruiser after the fall staff. He does it nod to honor the Shakespeare's character but to honor a valiant Navy ship.
@@WALTERBROADDUS Not sure why the post on your part, Bon Homme Richard ( 1779)was not named after Franklin but a character he created. The Carrier was named after John Paul Jones ship that was named after the book's title.
"01:33:42 - Who is taking all these photos of ships in battle?" 3 hours of the battle of Jutland footage lost? . . . . 3 HOURS ???? . . . . AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGG!!!!!!!
As I understand the fighter mafia wasn't a reaction against bombers but reaction to inane fighter designs and tactics (no gun, all missile armament was one) dictated by USAF bomber mafia. Their demand as a fighter should be able to dogfight (be very maneuverable/agile) and carry a mix of armament for different situations (guns and missiles). Vietnam showed the fighter mafia was basically correct as many US fighters couldn't dogfight close in with various MIGs.
That's only part of the story. The Fighter Mafia wanted fighter aircraft that were small, lightweight, cheap, and only carried gun armament and heat-seeking missiles for a pure air-to-air role. This meant that they vehemently opposed the installation of radar, radar-guided missiles (meaning very limited frontal aspect engagement capability), or any multirole capability whatsoever. They didn't just oppose the admittedly stupid fighter doctrines of the 50s and 60s, but also things like the F-15. Vietnam only proved that the doctrines in place at the start of the conflict were ineffective and that the new missile/radar technology was far less reliable than anticipated. However, most of the US losses were due to ambushes and getting jumped on. However, the situation gradually improved as new training, tactics, and improved technology were introduced. Basically, the Fighter Mafia only correctly identified the problems in Vietnam, but did not come up with the correct solutions.
Vietnam War is ironically the one war that proved Fighter Mafia to be wrong, albeit much later on properly. The Air Force believed in a concept that proven to be right in the end, just implemented way too early when missile technology is still at its infancy. The Iran-Iraq War basically a testimony to long-range missile capability. Even if you look into F-4's air-to-air kill record in Vietnam (even in Wikipedia), missiles made up the majority of their kills, guns being only a small percentage. The gun and maneuverability were never the main issue in the end, it was the training and reliability that mattered. Maneuverability is a valid concern, but the increase in long-range and detection capability with newer radar system made it less important in a way, thus negating the Fighter Mafia's idea of "cheap light aircraft".
The Indo-Pakisran wat also demonstrated this where the indian Folland Gnats were able to make mincemeat of much more sophisticated aircraft such as Mirage IIIs.
Regarding no white sailors in the navies, I think the issue that didn't go away was how far could they go up in the ranks, and the obvious consequence of this: if it was accepted that blacks could be in a position to give orders to white people. And the answers are not very kind, including WWII.
The Fighter Mafia came in as the main Strike arm in Vietnam was Fighter Bombers being controlled by Generals who commanded fleets of four engine heavy bombers with the interdiction and Strategic Bomber winning the Day yet Forgetting the only way they got to those Targets were Single Seat Single Engine Mustangs and Thunderbolts knocking Single Engine FWs and 109s out of the way the mafia Dictated Fighters need to be Fighters not Fighter Bombers the same argument from 1940 1950. from 1970 on more Fighter pilots have taken ownership of the USAF as leaders.
On the race issue in the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century: my guess is the restrictions on non-white sailors probably had to do with the rise of Scientific Racism in the Progressive era. That was a direct outgrowth of early Darwinism thought of the period.
With regards to "race", with regards to the RN where were all these non white sailors coming from, bearing in mind that in the period quoted the non white population of the UK was probably 10-30,000 estimated, of which half were female???, 30-40% would be too old or too young and I very much doubt those eligible all wanted to join the navy
if I eat taco bell that's has been sitting in the back of my truck for 2 weeks in mid summer will my bowl painting spray= a typical big mac that was made this coming Friday? and if so , please elaborate and will i ever get laid in the parallel universe? I'm asking for a friend.
I think touching questions like this at the moment is just asking for trouble. Doesn't matter what drach says people will be angry and its just asking for stupid off topic arguments.
@@xr33tk Absolutely correct. Whoppie Goldberg, Rachel Madow and the like are not fans of the channel or history. I'm surprised that Drac took the bait.
First US radar patent; 1934- A. H. TAYLOR ET AL SYSTEM FOR DETECTING OBJECTS BY RADIO Filed June 13, 1933 3 Sheets-Sheet l RECEIVER lM/D qwawa TIME AIRPLANE TRANSMITTER Nov. 27, 1934. A. H. TAYLOR ET AL 1,981,334
Pinned post for Q&A :)
How effective was dazzle paint?
Do you think we will ever get a sequel video about ironclads from the mid 1870s to 1880s?
What impact could CSS Virginia realistically have had if there were no ironclads there to oppose her?
2:10:10 considering that germany had bad coal in WW1, would it been possible to use charcoal briquettes
or coke instead?
Following up on the question about Tegetthoff, if we assume a Central Power victory in WW1 and thus Austria-Hungary being still in extistence in the 1920ies and 30ies, could the Tegetthoff-class have been modernized as radically as the Italian 12inch dreadnoughts, or were they simply too small for this? If you were given this task and alotted a very generous budget - but still within realistic limitations - how would the ships emerge with regards to main and secondary battery, AA, speed and armour?
As to divers on board, in the US Navy generally only salvage ships have divers. But there was a time when I served on a Destroyer Escort and the Captain was concerned with having some sailors store their recreational air tanks onboard citing some sort of safety risk and ordered them to be taken off the ship. About 2 weeks later we were doing a tow and be towed excercise with another DE and as we were towing the ship the line parted as they sometimes do under strain. The towing line wrapperd around our screw and shaft and only having one screw on the DE we became dead in the water (DIW). It wasn't long before the Captain came over the 1MC and sheepishly asked if any of the crew had any diving equipment onboard and could they please take a look at the towing line. Lo and behold several sets of gear, tanks and all were produced by a Chief and a Leutenent JG. After about an hour of struggling they managed to unfoul the screw. We never heard anything again from the Captain about diving gear for the rest of my time aboard that ship.
A famous incident of this kind had a major effect on history. On December 6, 1941, a line from a destroyer had wrapped itself around a shaft on the cruiser Northampton, delaying Halsey's task force with the carrier Enterprise, which would otherwise have been at Pearl Harbor for the next morning's attack.
Just watched and truly enjoyed the USS Alabama episode.. when you manned the 20 mm How did you keep from yelling DakaDakaDakaDaka ..? It must be the mark of a true professional..
Isn't that a RAF sound. Or is that Taka-taka-taka-taka?
The question is how many takes he required to do that :)
@@leftcoaster67 Dracha- Dracha -Dracha .. to be channel specific
@@88porpoise .. it’s tough to do a live shot .. but the weather did cooperate..
Or better yet….”RRRROLLLL TIIIIDEE”
Made it! Made it! seen literally every episode of the Dry Dock. It's taken a few years, but i made it!
Re: "rivalries" between crew and aviators on aircraft carriers… My Dad flew F6F-5's with VF-19 aboard the USS Lexington in the summer and fall of 1944 during the Philippine campaign, including Leyte Gulf. The squadron history has nothing but positives to say about the ship's crew, and "rivalries" appear to have been limited to the very frequent basketball games that took place on the hangar deck between combat operations.
The carrier air group includes all the enlisted personnel who maintain the aircraft. Also in WWII there were enlisted flying as gunners, radio operators etc. Before the war, enlisted pilots were common. This continued into the war (Butch O’Hara was such an enlisted pilot and in fact earned his Medal of Honor before he was promoted to officer rank)
16:20 that was a great question and I think you answered it well. Kudos for not skipping it.
Found the LazerPig fan in the wild 😂
The nearest naval equivalent to the Light Fighter Mafia is the modern Small Warship Mafia that incidentally popped up around the same time as the Air Forces clique.
They were the ones championing hydrofoil missile boats that resulted in the Pegasus class being built (and then massively truncated in numbers ordered) and continue today with their most recent shenanigans being the LCS program.
A good example of filming of war, John Ford's Midway Battle, which won an Academy Award. He was commissioned by the USN for this purpose.
Depending on where the timeline is drawn, the Japanese cruiser Unebi could be listed as a lost-without-trace warship. She was a protected cruiser of 3,600 tons, built in France and completed in 1886. She set out for her delivery voyage to Japan in October of that year, but never arrived, vanishing without trace somewhere in the South China Sea. The most likely explanation is that Unebi capsized in rough weather because she was top-heavy because of her excessive armament (four 24-cm guns and seven 15-cm guns).
I'm a 69yr old Brit who's best mate Tony Ash(who had fallen from a tree onto iron railings)qualified as a RN diver and travelled the world and seeing a lot of mud if not sand 😂😂😂 as he put it,
@ 1:01:00. The USS Bon Homme Richard (CV-30) was named after John Paul Jones' frigate of the US Revolutionary War fame. (Also the only single ship .vs.. single ship engagement where the victorious Ship sank while the defeated ship remained afloat!). JPJ's ship was a reference to Ben Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanack due to Franklin's efforts that got the former merchantman turned into a frigate (of sorts).
It was not directly named after Ben Franklin....
1:38:00 Having many smaller sails also removes the need (at least most of the time) for reefing in sails; powered reefing for fore-and-aft sails roll up the sail inside either the mast or the boom, and a square-rig boom with the internal space for a roller reefing system would be much larger and bulkier, and as you point out, sending topmen up to haul in the sails to the reef points is not an option with the reduced crews on modern clippers. More smaller sails allows for power dousing, setting, and reefing while keeping the individual booms to a more manageable size.
2:05:15 - A good example of a ship (well, in this case technically a boat) that was scuttled due to battle damage without anyone going down with the ship would be USS _Perch,_ which was severely damaged by Japanese depth charges in the Java Sea early in 1942; nobody died, but the damage wrecked three-quarters of her powerplant and left her unable to dive while she was well within hostile waters, so she was scuttled and abandoned by her crew after she came under attack by five Japanese surface warships. Everyone on board made it off and was taken prisoner by one of the Japanese warships in question, so _Perch's_ wreck wasn't a war grave (I say "wasn't" because the wreck no longer exists).
I know this is a warship channel. I have seen the one surviving whaleback, SS Meteor at Superior WI. One issue why they didn't work as merchanmen is that it was diffcult to extract goods from the holds because of their shape, Much less of the hold was available via the hatches. This was a problem since most of the Great Lakes trade, where they flurished was devoted to bulk cargos.
32:44 During the 1956 Suez crisis, the Israeli navy captured the Egyptian destroyer Ibrahim el-Awal after disabling the rudder and turbo generator. The Ibrahim el-Awal was originally a British destroyer from WW2.
As a former crewmember of USS, John C. Stanis, I can say, with absolute certainty, that the vast majority of the enlisted crew did not like the pilots. Nor did ships company much care for the air wing. I worked in the propulsion plant and some of the antics of those on the flight deck Annoyed us. Primarily because it had us starting and stopping equipment unnecessarily. So now, in the modern navy black shoe sailors (surface sailors), and the brown shoe navy (pilot, etc.) do not get along.
Drach- with regard to your discussion of boarding parties... The opposite side of the coin question would be why do we not see any ships surrendering in more modern-day age of steam and steel battles as we did in age of sail. I have often wondered why von Spee, for example, at the Falklands, or Lutjens on Bismarck, when faced with an impossible situation did not surrender rather than sacrifice thousands of his crewmen? Through their ships would have been captured (well Bismarck would likely have been scuttled) but this was also the case in the age of sail. Thanks.
I'm only speculating, but my guess is at least one factor is the increase in technology built into warships as the age of steam and steel progressed. In the age of sail, the technology of the ships was virtually universal, so there was really no question of any secrets to steal. But moving into the 20th century, nations' warships housed their most modern and increasingly secret technology, which navies increasingly didn't want falling into enemy hands.
Another factor may have been that, with steam-and-steel warships, it's harder to get a clear sense of how badly damaged or disabled ana enemy ship actually is. In an age-of-sail battle, it's usually pretty obvious if a ship that strikes its colors in no longer capable of serious resistance (masts and yards shot away, shot holes visible in the hull, etc.). But with more modern warships, its most likely harder to discern if a "surrendering" ship is actually disabled before being lured into potentially point-blank range of unseen weapons that are still functional.
Cousteau and Gagnan invented the Aqualung in 1943, so what we think of as scuba diving is relatively late.
Yeah, maybe a nice topic for a special, Drach? They where perfecting the technology right under the nose of the Nazi's, and Jacques himself was part of the French resistance. For sure some interesting tidbits are present in that history.
Hans Hass experimented with rebreathers in the late forties and fifties. Jules Verne “skaphanders” were imagined in the 1880s.
Cousteau’s innovation was the pressure compensated demand regulator. That permitted dives below 10m without constant pressure adjustments.
Thank you for another good video.
1:52:00 There is a joke that I first ran across in one of Dan Gallery's books (Daniel V. Gallery, RADM USN (ret), the commander of the USS Guadalcanal during the capture of the U-505), the gist being that the sailor who was speaking could understand what the aviators did to earn their fifty percent flight pay, but he didn't see what they did to earn their base pay.
whalebacks had a lot of issues with scaling up the hullform to increase internal space, and couldn't work with mechanical unloaders and the seals didn't always work so they could flood pretty badly since they have like 3 feet of freeboard. they worked great as sealed barges on the great lakes since you can pull them along in any weather
When I was in the Navy in the 1970s I was assigned to Combat Camera Group Atlantic. This group was established during WWWII and tasked with motion and still photography on board ships and naval shore engagements. Edward Steichen, a professional photographer of renown, instigated the creation of this group. Much of the series “Victory at Sea” used photography originating from this group. Alas the group has been decommissioned.
47:00 Even on the Great Lakes, the whaleback design saw very limited usage, mainly restricted to barges. It seems odd how many people know this design, given how short a time it was in use together with the limited production.
One thing to remember is that during the age of wood and sail is just how hard it was to sink a wooden ship using solid shot. Later when ships were made of Iron or steel sinking a ship became much easier especially with explosive shells
For a missing ship, there’s also the sloop HMS Begonia., which disappeared in September 1917. She may have been sunk by a U-boat taht didn’t return from patrol, but that's far from certain.
Even before the US entered the war both the War and Navy Departments established the Combat Camera program. Most of the footage from Midway happened because Captain John Ford and his crew happened to be there.
Something I didn't think of when asking the question about post Dreadnought VTE ships is that in addition to the dreadnoughts I had specifically asked in the question there was also some semi dreadnoughts completed post Dreadnought with VTEs. Now obviously the Brits have enough dreadnoughts that the Lord Nelsons having a VQE or even turbines isn't going to do much in the grand scheme of things, even dreadnought herself wasn't in the grand fleet by Jutland but some of the smaller powers that didn't have as many dreadnoughts as the RN like the Austro-Hungarians or the Russians might have benefitted from the Radetsky or post Tsushima Borodino spinoffs being VQE or even turbine
1:19:45 Proto Aircraft carrier :D Love it ! Almost like a protostar :)
The great irony is that the Autro-Hungarian Battleship Prinz Eugen was actually named after a native French man!
And the Italians also had a ship named after him launched in 1933, and the British had a ship named after him launched in 1915 (and scrapped in 1921).
So both the British and Austrian’s (and French later) had a ship named after the same guy in service at the same time on opposite sides…
So over a half century, six different navies had different ships operating named after exactly the same guy.
wrt the Tegetthoff, as Drac said, it appears to have been mostly a matter of cost, for what were not particularly good battleships. After the war, many Austrian destroyers and torpedo boats were allocated to Italy, Greece, Romania and Yugoslavia. Many of these ships served their new owners well into the 1930s. Italy did not have a huge inventory of destroyers, like the US did after the war, and embarked on a significant destroyer building program through the 20s. Italy was also putting down a rebellion in Libya. Even if Italy had done some horse trading with France to get both Tegetthoffs, potentially to use one as spares for the other, battleships were not a priority for Italy at the time, iirc, I did read somewhere along the line that the Italians did strip the heavy guns off of Tegetthoff for use as shore batteries.
It should be noted the final naval battle of WW2 involved boarding. Granted, it was a fight between sailing ships.
Please Please Please say more
@@godofprocurement It was on August 21, 1945. Navy Lt. Cmdr. Livingston Swentzel, Jr. and Marine Corps 1st Lt. Stuart Pittman were in command of the two junks, traveling from Hainan to Shanghai. They had with them 20 Chinese guerillas. They were attacked by another junk, manned by Japanese with a 75mm howitzer. The fight involved exchange of machine gun fire. Swentzel, Pittman, and surviving guerillas used bazookas to knock out the howitzer, closed to close range, and with a volley of hand grenades boarded and captured the junk. Swentzel won the Navy Cross and Pittman the Silver Star for this action.
Well I'm pretty sure the reason 21 knots was the speed of the US standards was because it was the speed of the last pre standards(New York class) so if a VQE put it up to 22 or 23 knots than presumably all the standards would be based on that speed.
They thought going faster would make people insane. As we now know it does.
There was no advantage if your escorts supply ships could not keep up.
Thank you, thank you. I have been fighting this battle for several years on Reddit and Quora
Trying to convince people about everything you covered. I just about get them there, when someone will say "but sun szu says" and I'll have to start all over and then get into sun szu also.
A major technicality on large missing warships: the closest to capital ship would be Sao Paulo breaking loose in a storm while being towed to be scrapped in 1951.
While it was concluded that she'd have foundered within an hour of her tow lines breaking no one knows for certain what happened when visual contact with her was lost and she vanished with an 8 man caretaker crew aboard.
Regarding boarding actions in the age of steam I actually think the reason they stopped is very simple:
The range and power of the main armament.
In the age of sail engagement ranges were so short that it was a very realistic prospect for vessels to actually get within boarding range. Even very powerfully armed ships couldn't stop a determined attacker at range most of the time.
That all changed with the rifled shell gun. Especially later in the era of steam and steel, say ww1, it wasn't so much a question of not being able to get into boarding range anymore, as even getting within five kilometers was now essentially point blank range.
All the other problems listed do contribute, but they could have been worked around at least to a degree.
Anti-personel weapons on the enemy ship could be suppressed using your own such weapons, metal hatches and bulkheads could be dealt with using breaching demolition charges or even cutting torches and so on. All the other problems can be mitigated or dealt with, but the problem of getting into range is absolute.
HMAS Sidney would be a good reminder how even a moderately armed hilfskreuzer can do devastating damage at short range when positioning your warship in a boarding position.
In the "Sand Pebbles" they do a boarding action and appear to have been trained for it. Late 1930s.
@@Tuning3434 yep, that was my thought exactly. At that range even a BB would have taken significant damage, just look at what happened to the Hiei at Guadalcanal.
OH! RIGHT HERE! For the question at 1:57:48 I have but one warship that has disappeared without a trace during the Age of Steam and Steel. The Japanese protected cruiser Unebi, which disappeared in December of 1886. Runner ups that technically disappeared, inasmuch that no one survived and no one witnessed them go down, is the Spanish protected cruiser Reina Regente, which presumably sank in a severe storm in March of 1895 having last been seen passing the Strait of Gibraltar. The other, ex-Brazilian battleship Sao Paulo, while underway to the scrapyard in November of 1951, broke her tow line in a storm and was never seen again; her crew of eight caretakers for the tow also going missing. I don't really count those two since it can be arrived at their cause of disappearance, unlike Unebi which just up and vanished without a trace.
Oklahoma also disapeared on her way to be scraped.
24:15 my grand Dad did service at the Copenhagen coastal defense, sometime in the late thirties. He told me that basically the 8" guns hit at 3. Shot. The howitzers could not hit 💩
Not sure about back then, but on both of the carriers i served on, there wasn't much direct interaction between a lot of the crew and the air-wing. and in the modern age, they were only ever on board for short underway periods and deployments. always saw the crew and the air-wing get along rather well outside of the occasionally oddity because of the separate commands. the crew and the air-wing vs. the ship's master at arms on the other hand.....
43min: I have noticed that when people look at ships designed for operating on the great lakes, they don’t always give a lot of attention to lakes themselves as a mitigating factor. The lakes are pretty small compared to oceans and can have some incredibly violent weather which the ships simply have to deal with. They can’t deviate from their course, the lakes aren’t that big. I believe the biggest selling point about Whalebacks was they were seen as a way to mitigate the problems of maintaining way in heavy seas, especially with towed barges.
I imagine as the size of the ships increased, along with the ease of getting engines in ships, the issue with the hatches vs. the available loading/unloading methods outweighed any benefits.
1h: wasn’t Bonhomme Richard was named for one of John Paul Jones’ ships?
CV Franklin was not named (directly) for Ben Franklin. Carriers at the time were named for battles or historic ships. The battle of Franklin, Tennessee was fought late in the US Civil War. It is noted that the crew nevertheless referred to her as "Big Ben". And, as is noted, Bonhomme Richard was named for the ship.
I had read the same thing in A.A. Hoehling's The Franklin Comes Home. The Naval History and Heritage Command denies this, stating it is named for Ben Franklin. As Drach made no comment in dispute of the NHHC version, I take it that we were both taken in by what seems a very logical, but inaccurate, story.
@@jeffreybaker4399 As a side note, the mistaken belief that Franklin was named for Ben was reportedly why the CV42 was named Roosevelt, since the public believed that Franklin was a precedent for naming carriers after famous people, and the next carrier launched was renamed Roosevelt (I think she was originally planned to be USS United States, but I'm not sure of that.)
Ever considered covering the Flower-class sloops of World War ONE?
The characterization that the potential difficulties between the ships crew and the air wing are due to the fact that pilots are officers is ridiculous. When I served on the Kitty Hawk the ships company was around 2800 and the air wing aound 2300. I assure you that most of the air wing were enlisted as were most of the ships company. Pilots were indeed officers, but I think there were as many officers in ships company as there were in the air wing, and not all officers in the air wing ware pilots. Difficulties among the crew were not any worse than between deck division and engineering divisions or gunnery divisions on any ship. Friendly rivalries, "designated" bars in certain ports where one gang or another usually got refreshment. If there were any issues with "pilots" it would have been within the air wing since pilots would rarely see ships crew. (Officers had their own gangway, their own mess, and air wing accomodations were not mixed with ships crew).
wrt the question about Force H, in late 41, Somerville's flagship was Malaya. Reportedly he was displeased at having such and old, slow, ship. I worked out a scenario where Prince of Wales put in at Gibraltar to become flagship, while Malaya steamed around Africa, and, with Revenge, relieved QE and Valiant in Alexandria. QE and Valiant then steaming for Singapore as Force Z, but those old QEs were too slow to make the timing work out.
Best intro song. Ever.
Race in military -- Ely Parker, a Seneca Indian (think "Last of the Mohegans" geographically) who wrote out the official copy of the terms of surrender which was signed by Grant and Lee. Grant had to explain to Lee that Parker was a Seneca Indian and not black so as to make it appear like a middle finger to Lee. Robert E. Lee a slave holder who is revered by reimagining historians as a saint had escaped slaves lashed 50 times and brine poured in their wounds.
Q&A in this drydock you talk about possible frictions betwen the flight crew and the standart crew on aircraft carriers. You say that they sometimes come to blows. What happens in these cases? Can you give examples ?
The KuK was so starved for victories that they named a cruiser after a landing action where only 100 of their countrymen fought under RN command, Saida - Sidon, and another one for their inconclusive skirmish against Denmark at Helgoland.
One of the major reasons that ship design costs rise so dramatically is the increase in bureaucracy.
Many decades ago, the King or Admiralty had to approve designs, as time went by dozens of departments and hundreds of people need to review and micromanage every nail and bolt.
At least none of the Iowa class capsized as soon as it was launched.
And at each layer, privatization means contractors add profit margin to each approval.
The introduction of steam led to the introduction of stokers who came from a different part of society. It also led to the introduction of engineers, leaders differing from officers in social background and education. Books, some of them good reads, have been written about the results
According to a law of mathematical ballistics (Tartaglia's Rule), a gun's maximum range is achieved by an elevation to 45°. Were there any major warships (light cruisers[6"guns] and up) that could elevate their guns to that angle? This would be most useful for shore bombardment/naval gunfire support of troops.
The automatic 6”/47guns on USN Worcesters could elevate to 78 degrees, the 6”/47 guns on the USN Cleveland’s were increased to 60 degrees after ‘43, RN Tigers’ 6”/50s could elevate to 80 degrees, and 6”/45s on RN Belfast elevate to 60 degrees (there are photos of Belfast elevated more than 45 degrees). These were considered to be DP guns hence the high elevation.
As a side note, in the presence of drag, if the projectile does not produce significant lift, the maximum range is achieved with elevation smaller than 45 °.
@@Puukiuuki Next you're going to tell me cows aren't spherical.
no its not. a projectiles range can be extended by adding lift. but the 45 degree thing is simple math. if you lob a bomb or shell at a given velocity, all else being equal 45 debrees will give the furthest throw
@@mustangdog11 If you ignore drag and assume a flat plane.
1:37:47 my dad sailed on this kind of ship. Apparently all the sails are operated by hand (well, many hands :) )
1:24:59. I love how this episode took a radical turn towards playing with Legos in the bathtub
Ironically, a new auto-loading 5.25” mount postwar was planned and had a 70 rpm rate of fire. But it was killed off by the advent of the guided missile.
With respect to the Rhuyjo question, could you use large destroyers armed with relatively caliber guns?
Surprised you didn't mention HMS King George V and HMS Emperor of India of WW1 vintage in the section of ships named after / in honour of the same person.
There was also still a HMS Prince of Wales that had been named while he held that role
Re names in the Armada. Assuming the number of Spanish ships wrecked on the coasts was less than those sunk by the vast number of dog-noise-named ships, can we say England's Bark was worse than it's bight...?
the biggest issue for whalebacks were that they couldn't be mechanically offloaded, which was what killed them ultimately
01: 47 (ish) Old ships .vs. new ships designation. I forget where I saw it (1970s or so) but I do remember seeing US and RN pre-dreadnoughts being labeled with a B and Dreadnought (and the S.C.s) onward being labeled with BB. I don't know if this was from some official document, or just the author's way of designating the now obsolete (or very obsolete) ships from the newer and better ships.....
Also, how likely could have the USS South Carolina class battleships beaten the HMS Dreadnought as the first all big gun main battery battleships?
Imagine you filmed 3 hours of Intense fighting at the Battle of Jutland just to realise you left the lens cover on. 🤦♂
(My Great Uncle "Filmed" my Aunts Wedding and did this.)
...Alright Boys were gonna have to run it back one time.
Related to that, according the Shattered Sword, there was a newsreel photographer aboard the Akagi who filmed the American dive-bomber attack on her, but the film was unfortunately lost in the subsequent fire. It's interesting to think that such a crucial moment might actually have been preserved on film...although given Japanese tendencies with their WWII records, it probably would have been destroyed after the battle anyway.
A modern sailing ship can't possibly afford the crew numbers present in the past. The sails may be partially or wholely automated with power winches and lines as in pleasure boats. A smaller lightweight sail will respond better to light wind as a spinaker. A great big heavy canvas sail will need a blow to inflate it.
In relation to the fighter mafia question. If the fighter mafia had existed back when the jeune ecole doctrine was created, they would have completely opposed it. The jeune ecole was very much about the integration of the self-propelled torpedo. A new and modern weapon, for its time, that allowed smaller warships to punch way above their weight class. And like the fighter mafia do not want missiles, and other modern stuff like radar and encrypted radio, a fighter mafia in 1870's france would say that the navy should only use cannons.
Were the big pumps used in battleships something the Navy bought or was it fabricated in the ship as part of its structure?
17:05 the US Army coastal artillery branch used, for a while, a 12" mortar for coastal defense. It was developed specifically to provide that kind of plunging gire against the deck, and some survived to, and saw action in, World War 2.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-inch_coast_defense_mortar
Interesting. I guess it adds to the effectiveness / ineffectiveness of shore installations. The drawbacks of a mortar like armament are the same drawbacks as a fixed shore emplacement, so I guess there is not a lot to loose unlike for a ship.
Developed around 1900 these mortars have two advantages: 1. Deck armor was thin or nonexistent then. 2. Because of their high angle fire the mortars could be hidden behind terrain features or in pit and thus unreachable by low angle of fire naval rifles. And two disadvantages Short range due to #2 and inaccuracy because of the long flight time. As the range and accuracy of naval guns and the thickness of deck armor increased, the mortars advantages disappeared.
Howitzer ships in UAD only work because it's literally playing the game mechanics. Firstly, the enemy AI is not very smart and often allows for weird ideas like this to work, secondly the gunnery is based on RNG. If the RNG rolls for a successful hit then it takes shell trajectory into account regardless how weird this trajectory was. So if the angle of attack is enough, it'll assign the hit to the deck instead of the belt. On an engine where the shell trajectory is tracked, this kind of hit would be only a matter of pure luck because it'd be attacking not the ship, but the area the ship is passing and obviously ships in combat almost always move. On land howitzers work because they are used against stationary positions and as much as having an artillery piece self-propelled and capable of moving right after firing is enough to drastically reduce effectiveness of counter-battery fire.
With WW I/ WW II fire controls I don't think it'd be even possible to reliably hit targets with a howitzer ship.
I found it interesting that the segment on race around 15 mins in focused so heavily, or rather entirely on black sailors. "The War Illustrated" a wartime publication prominently featured Indian casualties along side the rest. They had their own officers and everything.
Wouldn't the number of Indians in the British mainland even, nevermind the Dominions, dwarf the number of black Brits by 100-1 if not more?
Considering Britain and India's established military ties and defense interests, such as actually having Indian fleets for 300 years of history, I thought for sure any talk of race in the Royal Navy would be about that relationship.
A questiob nrelated the question about friction between pilots (officers) and crews (enlisted), would be friction between the air-wing (officer and enlisted) and ship's company (officer and enlisted). How much interaction is/was there and how good or bad was it most commonly.
I'd be careful about the pilots (officers) and crews (enlisted) distinction, at least in the RAF you could have a bomber crew with a sergeant pilot and a commissioned flight engineer, navigator etc. In the air the sergeant pilot was in command even if on the ground military regulations required he deferred to his flight engineer, navigator.
Well they're operating in different Command structure and berthing. They're not doing the same watches. They're not berthing together. There's interaction in the mess and Ward rooms. Then again, even on a ship's crew. Different departments don't Mix much. Weapons people are not hanging with the engineering people. Your person who's in the laundry, is not traveling to CiC.
Wouldn't a modern submarine sort of be a whale back vessel, on the surface?😁
Fair point, but then modern submarines, even diesel electric boats, don't spend much time on the surface.
Thank you for this new publication. Managed to be third
The 1880 and 1890 saw the rise of Social Darwinism and the related ideas of Eugenics. Ideas that postulated a hierarchy between groups and societies as well as individuals. This would influence the attitudes of society as both were popular in academia at the time. And both ideas have racist type ideas at their core.
My understanding exactly. People like to blame racism on “ignorance”, while instead it is actually the “intellectuals” that made it institutional.
Policies of "progressives" like Woodrow Wilson, who reversed moves made by Roosevelt in civilian hiring, solidified such racism in the U.S military. Funny how actual racism in policy is such a hallmark of Democrats.
@@hakanbergvall9777 That's a study that is full of holes though. Its methodology is poor (using IQ as a measure of anything is suspect, for a myriad of reasons, and even if you assume that IQ is a useful measure of anything, their statistical evidence is still weak and superficial). It raises some worthy questions, but there's not much you can learn from it as both its premises and conclusions are suspect.
Phreneology is the only way to go.
Any thoughts regarding the wholesale looting & illegal salvage of the war graves concerning Prince of Wales & Repulse ?
He addressed this a few times already.
WOW... I JUST GOT THE NOTIFICATION FOR THIS.. JUST NOW.. wtf.
It says it was put up. 14 hrs ago
You could have answered the questions upside down and counter clockwise.
The Armada Spanish Navy sounds Based.
Origin of speices and the accepted science of eugenics with its begining of demise once the camps were dicovered covers 70yrs
The Bon Homme Richard Was not named after Franklin it actually comes from his book Poor Richards Almanac Which was the French translation of the book's title. As Franklin was such a popular character in France John Paul Jones named his new ship after the book's title. So in reality the carrier was named after a United States Navy ship from 1778 that was named after the a book written by Franklin in its French title . So while closely connected ,consider poor Richard as Ben Franklin's nom de plume The carrier was named after the US Navy ship that fought the Serapis in 1778 where Jones uttered his quote I have not yet begun to fight. So as back then the US Navy named its carriers after historic battles and famous ships of the revolution and the early Navy it was not named after Franklin it was named after John Paul Jones's ship. convoluted as that sounds. So imagine an HMS Shakespeare and an HMS Fallstaff. During the Napoleonic Wars the fall staff takes three French ship of the lines and in 1905 Fisher decides to name a new battle cruiser after the fall staff. He does it nod to honor the Shakespeare's character but to honor a valiant Navy ship.
We already had a ship and submarine specifically named for Ben Franklin. I'm not sure why the post?
@@WALTERBROADDUS Not sure why the post on your part, Bon Homme Richard ( 1779)was not named after Franklin but a character he created. The Carrier was named after John Paul Jones ship that was named after the book's title.
@@stephenvignovich8654 we all know this. My post was because you seem to have the idea that people were confused?
This one took a while
"01:33:42 - Who is taking all these photos of ships in battle?"
3 hours of the battle of Jutland footage lost? . . . . 3 HOURS ???? . . . . AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGG!!!!!!!
The MO. had an official photographer taking the sequence of the Kamakazi hit.
Beatty would definitely be taking selfies. 😏
As I understand the fighter mafia wasn't a reaction against bombers but reaction to inane fighter designs and tactics (no gun, all missile armament was one) dictated by USAF bomber mafia. Their demand as a fighter should be able to dogfight (be very maneuverable/agile) and carry a mix of armament for different situations (guns and missiles). Vietnam showed the fighter mafia was basically correct as many US fighters couldn't dogfight close in with various MIGs.
That's only part of the story.
The Fighter Mafia wanted fighter aircraft that were small, lightweight, cheap, and only carried gun armament and heat-seeking missiles for a pure air-to-air role. This meant that they vehemently opposed the installation of radar, radar-guided missiles (meaning very limited frontal aspect engagement capability), or any multirole capability whatsoever.
They didn't just oppose the admittedly stupid fighter doctrines of the 50s and 60s, but also things like the F-15.
Vietnam only proved that the doctrines in place at the start of the conflict were ineffective and that the new missile/radar technology was far less reliable than anticipated. However, most of the US losses were due to ambushes and getting jumped on. However, the situation gradually improved as new training, tactics, and improved technology were introduced.
Basically, the Fighter Mafia only correctly identified the problems in Vietnam, but did not come up with the correct solutions.
Vietnam War is ironically the one war that proved Fighter Mafia to be wrong, albeit much later on properly. The Air Force believed in a concept that proven to be right in the end, just implemented way too early when missile technology is still at its infancy. The Iran-Iraq War basically a testimony to long-range missile capability. Even if you look into F-4's air-to-air kill record in Vietnam (even in Wikipedia), missiles made up the majority of their kills, guns being only a small percentage. The gun and maneuverability were never the main issue in the end, it was the training and reliability that mattered. Maneuverability is a valid concern, but the increase in long-range and detection capability with newer radar system made it less important in a way, thus negating the Fighter Mafia's idea of "cheap light aircraft".
I don't think the new planes have guns, F 22, 35. They are working on very long range missle fire like 250-500 miles. No use for a gun in that.
@@rogersmith7396you would be incorrect.
The Indo-Pakisran wat also demonstrated this where the indian Folland Gnats were able to make mincemeat of much more sophisticated aircraft such as Mirage IIIs.
Regarding no white sailors in the navies, I think the issue that didn't go away was how far could they go up in the ranks, and the obvious consequence of this: if it was accepted that blacks could be in a position to give orders to white people. And the answers are not very kind, including WWII.
The Fighter Mafia came in as the main Strike arm in Vietnam was Fighter Bombers being controlled by Generals who commanded fleets of four engine heavy bombers with the interdiction and Strategic Bomber winning the Day yet Forgetting the only way they got to those Targets were Single Seat Single Engine Mustangs and Thunderbolts knocking Single Engine FWs and 109s out of the way the mafia Dictated Fighters need to be Fighters not Fighter Bombers the same argument from 1940 1950. from 1970 on more Fighter pilots have taken ownership of the USAF as leaders.
9:54. Unlike the Army, the US Navy was never segregated.
On the race issue in the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century: my guess is the restrictions on non-white sailors probably had to do with the rise of Scientific Racism in the Progressive era. That was a direct outgrowth of early Darwinism thought of the period.
Perhaps Japan could have contributed some torpedo boats to the allied intervention in the Russian revolution 🤔
With regards to "race", with regards to the RN where were all these non white sailors coming from, bearing in mind that in the period quoted the non white population of the UK was probably 10-30,000 estimated, of which half were female???, 30-40% would be too old or too young and I very much doubt those eligible all wanted to join the navy
Lady of conception is not immaculate conception bc virgin birth is Mary’s birth not Jesus
Drach -
Commenting on the steam revolution and the ",whiteness": for the UK Navy say 1870 onward, Zulus and Khartoum and colonialism
8th, 2 July 2023
if I eat taco bell that's has been sitting in the back of my truck for 2 weeks in mid summer will my bowl painting spray= a typical big mac that was made this coming Friday? and if so , please elaborate and will i ever get laid in the parallel universe? I'm asking for a friend.
My take is that enabled colonialism. You then had racist notions pop up rationalizing European dominance of various groups.
00:09:54 WOKE question. What a waste!
I think touching questions like this at the moment is just asking for trouble. Doesn't matter what drach says people will be angry and its just asking for stupid off topic arguments.
Oh dear!
@@xr33tk Absolutely correct. Whoppie Goldberg, Rachel Madow and the like are not fans of the channel or history. I'm surprised that Drac took the bait.
Your response is a sad one. Your knee-jerk reaction airy response to label something. Instantly, because it does not cater to your political ideals.
@@xr33tkit's an open forum.
First US radar patent;
1934- A. H. TAYLOR ET AL SYSTEM FOR DETECTING OBJECTS BY RADIO Filed June 13, 1933 3 Sheets-Sheet l RECEIVER lM/D qwawa TIME AIRPLANE TRANSMITTER Nov. 27, 1934. A. H. TAYLOR ET AL 1,981,334
woodrow wilson.... duh. are you at all aware of his racist attitude?