"Nero was mentally unwell, paranoid, flamboyant and bloodthirsty. Is this because he was bisexual? No, it's because he was roman." that's just a fantastic line. gotta give my praise.
The virgin Corpo: plasters rainbows everywhere The chad FGO tuber: makes a 16 minute video going into extensive detail about historical Sexuality and gender
@@michaelmcdoesntexist1459 fate in general really did help me better understand sexuality and gender, and just how shallow it’s become due to government overreach, corporatism and a lack of media literacy
@@ghostshrimp5006 mmmm, well, to be entirely honest, I don't think Fate, or Nasuverse as a whole, is really into LGBT agenda. It may show some criticism towards gender roles (Saber for example), other times plays with real life theories (Kenshin) most of the time is just fanservice and pretty girls selling more than husbandos. But at least it always put an effort to make them fleshed, interesting characters
@@michaelmcdoesntexist1459 I’m not talking about any kind of agenda, just that they understand and take a critical look at those kinds of things. Especially in FGO surprisingly, all kinds of characters that explore gender and sexuality
@@ghostshrimp5006 that's just you overthinking things. FGO sexualizes gender diversity for the sake of fetishism, like many other IPs. Not the best place to learn anything about it.
All I need to do to disprove the notion of LGBT things being modern in origin is simply point to the Epic of Gilgamesh being the oldest and best-selling BL story.
Ah, yes. Another reminder from Klidge that the “cute Umu Roman Saber” was, in real life, a murderous narcissistic (and more) nut case…. Thanks for snapping us back to reality Klidge.
I was kinda confused by Hans being included here, considering the themes of love leading to suffering in his works. Then the Dickens section came up and everything made sense.
Another obvious one is of course, Gilgamesh said in the Epic of Gilgamesh to love Enkidu "like a wife", where he also had dreams about having sex with various objects meant to represent Enkidu. Modern Assyriologists mostly agree there's a high chance this is meant to portray a homosexual relationship but it is still debated.
Wonder if Fate would ever have the massive stones to add Sappho as a servant. Would make a fine addition to the writer's club. Also, is there any Servant more completely disconnected from their historically-recognized personality than Hans? Every time I hear something about the historical Hans he just sounds so 100% completely different than the Fate version, to a degree I can't say about any other Servant in the game.
Honestly, reading about Hans, I feel like Fate Hans is accurate but he just hides it now, I feel like Fate Hans is just done with the shit that happened in his life that he decided to be mean to everyone
@@CrowAkechi_The_LuminaryFate Hans is more like Hans at the end of his life. And embittered, disillusioned and broken man who loved too strongly for his own good. But every now and then he shows deep care for others.
I was just going to bed and got the notification and I will not take this ( 10:44 ) a grain of salt, it sounds so wild but also genuine at the same time, I kinda hope we get more history evidence for this in the future...
I once ended up in a huge argument with a Hans RP account who kept trying to deny hans was into men and claimed it was SJW revisionism. Turned out he was like 15 and from the philipines
One interesting person you could have mentioned is William Shakespeare People have analyzed many of his poems and realized that a lot of them can be read as gay love poems ,sonnet 18 being the most commonly used ones, and this has been a debate since the 1700s so it wasn't even something people only recently started noticing
The fact that TypeMoon writes characters that in game are cannonically trans (ex. Da Vinci) and lesbians (ex. Anning) not to mention basically 90% of female servants being bi for fem master but writes off gay or bi males is baffling. But that's a sales killer i guess.
It’s definitely skewed but I’ll give fgo a smidgen of credit cuz they do have some lgbt male characters. Fergus’ valentines cutscene is as blatantly bi as it gets, if I’m remembering right Yan Qing has a line in Shinjuku that could imply he isn’t into women, Waver is pretty heavily implied to be gay (tho to be fair that’s more in other media not fgo specifically), and Hektor saying that the master is his new Troy and then jokingly flirting lives rent free in my head. I’m sure there’s some other examples too but those are the ones off the top of my head. It’s very skewed, but there’s still some there. Fgo has always pandered the most to its straight male audience so it’s not that surprising but I’m still happy that there’s some instances of gay and bi male rep. Wish there was more and that some of it was more direct and less implied of course.
Bart is also portrayed as bi, not giving a fuck about anyone’s gender as long as they fit into his mekakure fetish… And his “colleague” Blackbeard is openly attracted to people with feminine appearance in general, including some Chaldea femboys like Lanling Wang And then there is Astolfo But all 3 kinda fall into the general “weirdo” category and are often mocked for that It’s really unfortunate that they seem to fear scaring off their straight male audience by portraying queer guys in any decent way. Even Caenis had to detransition to fit into the game
I think, given that there's no evidence Anning was heterosexual or a lesbian, it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that she was asexual. While this isn't an indication per se, she did not have any children, nor did she date or sleep with, as far as we can tell, men or women (assuming she wasn’t a lesbian). I just thought I’d add this comment here since, as an asexual palaeontologist myself, she was kind of my hero growing up and the person who got me into palaeontology as a boy :)
I feel like it would be interesting to see how F/GO would handle Patroclus if he ecer became a servant. Would they go the "best friends" route? Would they make them actual lovers? And if so, would they stick with real world counterpart and keep him as a man, or would they try to make him a genderbent? If so, I hope they do something like what they did with Musashi and say that it's a Patroclus from a different timeline. I'd rather that he'd stay a man, but I just hope that they wouldn't pull a "historians were wrong" kind of bullshtick.
What’s crazy to me is how LGBT friendly and varied FGO is, how some people try to claim FGO is “anti-woke” or some such nonsense! Like DaVinci off the gate is as definitionally trans as it gets!
I think the issue is how they treat their lgbtq characters, like they've joked about da vinci being an old man and such (saw this take on tumblr, their words not mine)
@@Firelava88. a fair point, but I feel like they do hard divide, “this was me in life, this is me now”! And if anything you get a little bit of ambiguity, do they the servant consider themselves the equivalent to their living selves, do they view themselves as a shadow of who they used to be with the real them long dead? The game gets squirrelly about that and Servant memories! That aside characters can be robust in their use of varied pronouns, I believe on the NA translation Mash asked of Bakin was non-binary!
@@goldeyeblueWell, Lady Lyonesse was Gareth’s wife in the original legend but fate retconned that relationship to make it so that they are friends as seen in Gareth’s profile.
this was an interesting vid! specially how in-depth you went with the roman and greek figures. the only part i felt was a little weird was to use neutral pronouns for D'eon, specially considering you said your self she declared herself to be a woman in the latter half of her life, not to mention letters of relatives that did reffer to D'eon as a woman as well. FGO's take on D'eon isn't bad, i understand why, since she mainly worked as a spy, but it does bother me a lil that you get to "pick" D'eon's gender in it.
I always thought that it was disrespectful on how they handled Caenus, taking one of the few historical instances of a trans man and then portraying him as a woman anyways, even though he'd hate nothing more
@@shulkash8799 still though, Servants are summoned at their peak so the implication of summoning Caenis instead of Caenus feels a bit disrespectful to me
@@shulkash8799 yeah but how is caenis with the body of a woman his peak? Like his whole myth is about being a man and then the once he dies the form his dead body took was the one he was summed in?
One thing I wanna mention is that there could be another fate servant who is homosexual (or is implied to be). Sir Galehaut, a knight of the round table who’s relationship with Lancelot has fascinated scholars for centuries.
hey btw transgenderism is a term soley used by the far right transphobes to present it as an ideology that is "unnatural". I don't think you were trying to do any harm or doing it intentionally but I would recommend not saying that word any more in the future. Also since d'eon identified as a woman it would have been more appropriate to use she/her instead of they/them.
@@tongzhimen thanks for letting me know! I didn’t mean harm I’m simply working with the terminology I know and was unaware it was seen in such a way. If there’s a more proper word, I would be happy to learn. As for dEon I tend to lean more on the fate presentation of them when talking about them in videos where they appear as both genders as it’s the more inclusive of the pronoun selections. However I can understand where some of the frustration with doing so can come from
@mauke90 talking about ancient Greece is a complicated subject because you have to be precise about the historic period you are talking about. It is like having to make a distinction between America before and after abolishing slavery. There are some pottery that depict homosexual acts, but there were also laws against homosexuality so strict that the penalty was even death. Also the word "pedophilia" had a completely different meaning than the one it has today. Don't forget also that some myths were written after rome had conquered Greece
If you follow Klidge, you'd know that Klidge does his friggin research and his passion for history and it's integrity is near infallible. So I am gonna take his word over some rando.
@@nickgastronomos1211I like how when you're asked to clarify your statement, namely what the truth about homosexuality in Ancient Greece was, the first part of your response was "Talking about Ancient Greece is complicated because you need to be precise with the time period", but the first example of giving historical reference is "just like comparing points in US history as to whether or not it's pre- or post Civil War abolishment of slavery", and not a more relevant example to the topic, like 9th century BCE/late bronze era for Ancient Greece, like in the case of Theseus. I mean, I can get that if you're not as well versed in the history of other nations and their people's lives, but I think most of us can agree on the fact that all of Ancient Greece's historical views on homosexuality do significantly pre- date all of US history: pre or post abolishment of slavery is irrelevant in the subject. "There [is] some pottery that depict[s] homosexual acts, but there were also laws against homosexuality so strict that the penalty was [ ] death." Uh... You got a source for that? I already tried to look up penalties for homosexuality in Ancient Greece, and while some actions, like pederasty with boys under 12, couples of the same age, etc., were listed as taboo activities, there were no such listed penalties for any of those activities. Laws without listed penalties aren't laws, not even as customs. "Also[,] the word [paedophilia] had a completely different meaning than the one it has today." No, you're actually wrong there as the word paedophilia was coined in the 1830s by researchers investigating the pederasty practices in ancient Greece, and was invented with Greek word roots. The word is more modern, and thus, has only ever had one definition, but was used to define pederasty as paedophilia because that's how modern classification works in psychology. "Don't forget that some myths were written after Rome had conquered Greece." Can I also get a source and examples of that? The only thing I can find even remotely related to that subject is how Rome had rewritten names of the gods and their stories, but I couldn't find any myths or stories written by Romans with a Greek setting. All of which proves my point: you can't clarify anything that you claimed was untrue, because you don't actually know the subjects yourself, and when you were asked, you deflected instead. You did demonstrated that you might know some things of the classical periods, but you lack actual proof to back up your claim that "most of what he said "are not true". Meanwhile, the goat man actually goes through multiple research sources to provide entertainment for the rest of us. Tl;Dr You're nothing but a phony! A big, fat phony!
![[FGO] 9th Anniversary - GSSR & Destiny Summon](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/62VRWxEyzuo/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FGO] 9th Anniversary - GSSR & Destiny Summon](/img/tr.png)
"Nero was mentally unwell, paranoid, flamboyant and bloodthirsty. Is this because he was bisexual? No, it's because he was roman." that's just a fantastic line. gotta give my praise.
Romans, eating their daily brick of lead for breakfast: "I wonder why my head hurts"
The virgin Corpo: plasters rainbows everywhere
The chad FGO tuber: makes a 16 minute video going into extensive detail about historical Sexuality and gender
That's why he's our GOAT
@@michaelmcdoesntexist1459 fate in general really did help me better understand sexuality and gender, and just how shallow it’s become due to government overreach, corporatism and a lack of media literacy
@@ghostshrimp5006 mmmm, well, to be entirely honest, I don't think Fate, or Nasuverse as a whole, is really into LGBT agenda. It may show some criticism towards gender roles (Saber for example), other times plays with real life theories (Kenshin) most of the time is just fanservice and pretty girls selling more than husbandos. But at least it always put an effort to make them fleshed, interesting characters
@@michaelmcdoesntexist1459 I’m not talking about any kind of agenda, just that they understand and take a critical look at those kinds of things. Especially in FGO surprisingly, all kinds of characters that explore gender and sexuality
@@ghostshrimp5006 that's just you overthinking things. FGO sexualizes gender diversity for the sake of fetishism, like many other IPs. Not the best place to learn anything about it.
12:59 That silence was so loud
"mentally unwell" proceed to show LoL .... I feel targeted
All I need to do to disprove the notion of LGBT things being modern in origin is simply point to the Epic of Gilgamesh being the oldest and best-selling BL story.
They were just friends in the story tho
Hey man, it ain't gay if it's Clay xD
LGB is old and even exists in other species, its the Ts that are crazy and modern and made up.
Loved the solid seconds of silence after the take that christianity and bisexuality are mutually exclusive
Ah, yes. Another reminder from Klidge that the “cute Umu Roman Saber” was, in real life, a murderous narcissistic (and more) nut case….
Thanks for snapping us back to reality Klidge.
One should imagine Caenis happy with his malewife but alas god is cruel :(
Nero is NOT INVITED TO THE PRIDE PARADE.
Nero's own version of the pride parade every June as the new early summer event.
I was kinda confused by Hans being included here, considering the themes of love leading to suffering in his works. Then the Dickens section came up and everything made sense.
Another obvious one is of course, Gilgamesh said in the Epic of Gilgamesh to love Enkidu "like a wife", where he also had dreams about having sex with various objects meant to represent Enkidu. Modern Assyriologists mostly agree there's a high chance this is meant to portray a homosexual relationship but it is still debated.
Kinda like David?
You forgot the face of pride : bonny read
Ironically, they are no evidences they were lesbians irl, just that both were close friends and "married" together with Captian Rackam
Wonder if Fate would ever have the massive stones to add Sappho as a servant. Would make a fine addition to the writer's club.
Also, is there any Servant more completely disconnected from their historically-recognized personality than Hans? Every time I hear something about the historical Hans he just sounds so 100% completely different than the Fate version, to a degree I can't say about any other Servant in the game.
Attila the Hun is literally an anime girl with a laser sword.
Im not sure you can get more disconnected than that
You can. You can be an alien anime girl with a laser sword. Oh wait that's still Attila. @@ghostshrimp5006
Honestly, reading about Hans, I feel like Fate Hans is accurate but he just hides it now, I feel like Fate Hans is just done with the shit that happened in his life that he decided to be mean to everyone
@@CrowAkechi_The_Luminaryless mean and just brutally honest.
@@CrowAkechi_The_LuminaryFate Hans is more like Hans at the end of his life. And embittered, disillusioned and broken man who loved too strongly for his own good. But every now and then he shows deep care for others.
So you're saying Achilles and Patroclus are the first ""roommates"" characters
So what you're saying is that i have a chance?
To get in the throne of heroes after death?
@@hmmmooops Can't be that hard right?
@@drakonemperor144 I mean I'm already guaranteed so yeah go for it
this is my favorite youtube channel right now, not gonna lie.
2:10 Carmilla flow drop when?
Yessir ally Klidge
I was just going to bed and got the notification and I will not take this ( 10:44 ) a grain of salt, it sounds so wild but also genuine at the same time, I kinda hope we get more history evidence for this in the future...
Great video! i really enjoy all your lore vids and this one covers a great subject that never really gets much discussion
I once ended up in a huge argument with a Hans RP account who kept trying to deny hans was into men and claimed it was SJW revisionism. Turned out he was like 15 and from the philipines
we love Ally Klidge
One interesting person you could have mentioned is William Shakespeare
People have analyzed many of his poems and realized that a lot of them can be read as gay love poems ,sonnet 18 being the most commonly used ones, and this has been a debate since the 1700s so it wasn't even something people only recently started noticing
Along with Nero a list of servants not invited to the pride parade is gilgamish
The fact that TypeMoon writes characters that in game are cannonically trans (ex. Da Vinci) and lesbians (ex. Anning) not to mention basically 90% of female servants being bi for fem master but writes off gay or bi males is baffling. But that's a sales killer i guess.
It’s definitely skewed but I’ll give fgo a smidgen of credit cuz they do have some lgbt male characters. Fergus’ valentines cutscene is as blatantly bi as it gets, if I’m remembering right Yan Qing has a line in Shinjuku that could imply he isn’t into women, Waver is pretty heavily implied to be gay (tho to be fair that’s more in other media not fgo specifically), and Hektor saying that the master is his new Troy and then jokingly flirting lives rent free in my head. I’m sure there’s some other examples too but those are the ones off the top of my head.
It’s very skewed, but there’s still some there. Fgo has always pandered the most to its straight male audience so it’s not that surprising but I’m still happy that there’s some instances of gay and bi male rep. Wish there was more and that some of it was more direct and less implied of course.
Bart is also portrayed as bi, not giving a fuck about anyone’s gender as long as they fit into his mekakure fetish…
And his “colleague” Blackbeard is openly attracted to people with feminine appearance in general, including some Chaldea femboys like Lanling Wang
And then there is Astolfo
But all 3 kinda fall into the general “weirdo” category and are often mocked for that
It’s really unfortunate that they seem to fear scaring off their straight male audience by portraying queer guys in any decent way. Even Caenis had to detransition to fit into the game
Thanks for this video, goat man!
Commenting to support my favorite trans servant Caenis for Pride Month
Ty Goat man, you are the GOAT
I think, given that there's no evidence Anning was heterosexual or a lesbian, it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that she was asexual. While this isn't an indication per se, she did not have any children, nor did she date or sleep with, as far as we can tell, men or women (assuming she wasn’t a lesbian). I just thought I’d add this comment here since, as an asexual palaeontologist myself, she was kind of my hero growing up and the person who got me into palaeontology as a boy :)
Dracula Flow jumpscare lmaooo
I feel like it would be interesting to see how F/GO would handle Patroclus if he ecer became a servant. Would they go the "best friends" route? Would they make them actual lovers? And if so, would they stick with real world counterpart and keep him as a man, or would they try to make him a genderbent? If so, I hope they do something like what they did with Musashi and say that it's a Patroclus from a different timeline. I'd rather that he'd stay a man, but I just hope that they wouldn't pull a "historians were wrong" kind of bullshtick.
Finally, Gay 2
We love ally Klidge!
I summon the "woke" class. Wish me luck on my grail war my peoplez
This is the kind of videos that made me follow you since years ago.
What’s crazy to me is how LGBT friendly and varied FGO is, how some people try to claim FGO is “anti-woke” or some such nonsense! Like DaVinci off the gate is as definitionally trans as it gets!
I think the issue is how they treat their lgbtq characters, like they've joked about da vinci being an old man and such (saw this take on tumblr, their words not mine)
@@Firelava88. a fair point, but I feel like they do hard divide, “this was me in life, this is me now”! And if anything you get a little bit of ambiguity, do they the servant consider themselves the equivalent to their living selves, do they view themselves as a shadow of who they used to be with the real them long dead? The game gets squirrelly about that and Servant memories! That aside characters can be robust in their use of varied pronouns, I believe on the NA translation Mash asked of Bakin was non-binary!
@@goldeyeblueYeah, but you gotta admit that they really dropped the ball with Sir Gareth and retconning her relationship with Lady Lyonesse.
@@IrascibleTankI’ll have to admit I’m not familiar with the lore and myth enough to know what was supposed to happen with Gareth…
@@goldeyeblueWell, Lady Lyonesse was Gareth’s wife in the original legend but fate retconned that relationship to make it so that they are friends as seen in Gareth’s profile.
this was an interesting vid! specially how in-depth you went with the roman and greek figures. the only part i felt was a little weird was to use neutral pronouns for D'eon, specially considering you said your self she declared herself to be a woman in the latter half of her life, not to mention letters of relatives that did reffer to D'eon as a woman as well. FGO's take on D'eon isn't bad, i understand why, since she mainly worked as a spy, but it does bother me a lil that you get to "pick" D'eon's gender in it.
I always thought that it was disrespectful on how they handled Caenus, taking one of the few historical instances of a trans man and then portraying him as a woman anyways, even though he'd hate nothing more
To be fair, Caenis turned back into a woman after death, so it wasn’t that out of left field
@@shulkash8799 still though, Servants are summoned at their peak so the implication of summoning Caenis instead of Caenus feels a bit disrespectful to me
Waifus sell more sadly so screw respect or historical accruacy when you can add one more Waifu to the game.
@@ousou78 "waifus sell more" stupid ass outdated take when male servants like Oberon, Douman, Merlin make money in the market as much 😂
@@shulkash8799 yeah but how is caenis with the body of a woman his peak? Like his whole myth is about being a man and then the once he dies the form his dead body took was the one he was summed in?
One thing I wanna mention is that there could be another fate servant who is homosexual (or is implied to be). Sir Galehaut, a knight of the round table who’s relationship with Lancelot has fascinated scholars for centuries.
To be fair, there is also stories of Lancelot loving married women.
hey btw transgenderism is a term soley used by the far right transphobes to present it as an ideology that is "unnatural". I don't think you were trying to do any harm or doing it intentionally but I would recommend not saying that word any more in the future. Also since d'eon identified as a woman it would have been more appropriate to use she/her instead of they/them.
@@tongzhimen thanks for letting me know! I didn’t mean harm I’m simply working with the terminology I know and was unaware it was seen in such a way. If there’s a more proper word, I would be happy to learn. As for dEon I tend to lean more on the fate presentation of them when talking about them in videos where they appear as both genders as it’s the more inclusive of the pronoun selections. However I can understand where some of the frustration with doing so can come from
HAPPY PRIDE MONTH RAHHHH‼️‼️‼️
Can you be Karl Alexander to my Hans? ☺️
Shout out to my man Han's Representing us gays who can never get a date.
Let's be honest, all roman and Greek is, most likely, gay
… What 🤦♂️💀
Most of what he said for Greece are not true, but ok
so what is the truth about Greece then?
@mauke90 talking about ancient Greece is a complicated subject because you have to be precise about the historic period you are talking about. It is like having to make a distinction between America before and after abolishing slavery. There are some pottery that depict homosexual acts, but there were also laws against homosexuality so strict that the penalty was even death. Also the word "pedophilia" had a completely different meaning than the one it has today. Don't forget also that some myths were written after rome had conquered Greece
If you follow Klidge, you'd know that Klidge does his friggin research and his passion for history and it's integrity is near infallible. So I am gonna take his word over some rando.
@briannafitzwilliam8184 you do you my friend
@@nickgastronomos1211I like how when you're asked to clarify your statement, namely what the truth about homosexuality in Ancient Greece was, the first part of your response was "Talking about Ancient Greece is complicated because you need to be precise with the time period", but the first example of giving historical reference is "just like comparing points in US history as to whether or not it's pre- or post Civil War abolishment of slavery", and not a more relevant example to the topic, like 9th century BCE/late bronze era for Ancient Greece, like in the case of Theseus.
I mean, I can get that if you're not as well versed in the history of other nations and their people's lives, but I think most of us can agree on the fact that all of Ancient Greece's historical views on homosexuality do significantly pre- date all of US history: pre or post abolishment of slavery is irrelevant in the subject.
"There [is] some pottery that depict[s] homosexual acts, but there were also laws against homosexuality so strict that the penalty was [ ] death."
Uh... You got a source for that? I already tried to look up penalties for homosexuality in Ancient Greece, and while some actions, like pederasty with boys under 12, couples of the same age, etc., were listed as taboo activities, there were no such listed penalties for any of those activities. Laws without listed penalties aren't laws, not even as customs.
"Also[,] the word [paedophilia] had a completely different meaning than the one it has today."
No, you're actually wrong there as the word paedophilia was coined in the 1830s by researchers investigating the pederasty practices in ancient Greece, and was invented with Greek word roots. The word is more modern, and thus, has only ever had one definition, but was used to define pederasty as paedophilia because that's how modern classification works in psychology.
"Don't forget that some myths were written after Rome had conquered Greece."
Can I also get a source and examples of that? The only thing I can find even remotely related to that subject is how Rome had rewritten names of the gods and their stories, but I couldn't find any myths or stories written by Romans with a Greek setting.
All of which proves my point: you can't clarify anything that you claimed was untrue, because you don't actually know the subjects yourself, and when you were asked, you deflected instead. You did demonstrated that you might know some things of the classical periods, but you lack actual proof to back up your claim that "most of what he said "are not true". Meanwhile, the goat man actually goes through multiple research sources to provide entertainment for the rest of us.
Tl;Dr You're nothing but a phony! A big, fat phony!