He has to play neutral. He's like one of the only characters in Ultimate who requires extremely good neutral play because so many of his moves are unsafe versus competent players. Yes spindash is really good but ultimately its not like 90% of the rest of the cast where they can just spam their best tools without much counter-play, you really need to know what you are doing to master Sonic. But because he's not braindead fair/nair/bair like 99% of the cast and requires playing patiently the community hates him. Its exactly why i stopped playing competitive Ultimate, its extremely linear across the cast and the few characters that aren't really like that are widely hated (minus Fox) because they don't play flashy.
@@nicksgamingchannel spindash ABSOLUTELY is spammable lmao, online proves that to the tee. And I think you're right that Sonic needs to play neutral, but the opponent needs to play AGAINST Sonic. A character that can literally choose if and when they will interact with you. Playing against a Sonic of any skill level can already be very draining and annoying, but Sonix really has mastered the playstyle of capitalizing on his opponents' impatience.
@@martinusmaas31 Online play is not representative of a true tournament setting at all. I do not care about that, Sonic is unreactable online yes (same with quite a few characters, like ZSS down-b), but offline is an entirely different story. There's a reason it took like 2-3 years of competitive Ultimate play for Sonic to finally be considered a top tier, for a long time he was largely considered a mid/low high tier character simply because of how difficult actually playing him is. His execution isn't difficult (although he is one of the few characters in the game that has some important movement tech like spinshot and cancelling it), its his actual neutral play thats difficult. You are effectively playing as a character with very crap kill power and very mediocre hitboxes in a game with a LOT of disjoints and fairly easy kill moves/confirms (especially as you go up the tier list), his speed is the only thing that makes him viable. As a result you have to master his movement, his tech, and his matchups to do basically anything, he's probably one of the most difficult characters to play as a result. Again this is not considering online play, as thats an entirely different (and significantly worse) setting. Offline I'm strictly speaking about. In offline Sonic can easily be hit while he's in spindash with basically any disjoint. Or reacted to with shield, etc. He's automatically in disadvantage with side-b on shield as it only has one hit so he's effectively helpless until he gets out of spindash. And down-b is very risky at high % due to its nature of dropping players out of the mutli-hit. I have lost tourney sets before from that. Most people bitching about how Sonic is "spammable" are complaining about the online matches which is fair, offline is an entirely different ballpark with him, its significantly easier for a good player to punish him for spamming spindash, notice how most other Sonic players that relied on this offline fell off extremely quickly once other players started to understand the MU. Sonix has always been one of the few Sonic players to not rely on just getting in with spindash, he deliberately fakes out constantly and keeps opponents guessing to get in, and thats what makes him work. He's one of the few players to actually understand Sonic is not just about spamming side-b or down-b and thats why he's easily the best Sonic player now. I've been rooting for him since he first started playing.
@@nicksgamingchannel you're telling me that you based the manifesto you just typed on OFFLINE play? Dude, >90% of the ENTIRE community will not actually learn a character, but rather do exactly what you described in your first comment: braindead spam of the best tools of the character they play, combined with basic nair-fair-bair stuff. I play mostly online elite smash and offline with friends (I have >2200 hours so I'd like to say I'm above average with my characters). The problem with Sonic is that for those +90% of the playerbase (who don't bother to learn matchups or study/train with their main) he is an annoying character that lends itself to play campy and avoid interactions. Besides, I think Sonic's specials are quite good. Not to say they're broken, but they are not bad and require little knowledge to implement correctly. But still, kudos to you for having an actual conversation with me without ripping into each others' families and loved ones, like how almost all the discussions in the SSBU community end. I like you man!
@@martinusmaas31 offline play is what matters for actual competitive play. There's a reason why (covid aside) nearly every serious tournament is an offline tourney. Online play adds way too much input lag and potential for desync to be comparable to offline, at least for Smash. I appreciate a civil conversation :)
Honestly it’s pretty cathartic to see a solo main player who has embraced his character and the grind fluster up this toxic community. They kind of deserve it fr
The fact I've actually heard in certain comment sections verbatim "I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG!" only confirms my theory that Smash players are secretly part of the reformation of the Eggman Empire.
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO RESPECTS SONIX AND SONIC
I respect too my dude 🤝
Tell me about it. The smash community is the worst, but there’s still a few diamonds in the ruff.
I respect him, its just toxic to have a character whose gameplan is to time you out
I respect sonix as a player but I will respectfully turn on a different stream if he is playing unless it's against someone like light lol
I understand some of the hate Sonix gets given his playstyle, but this man is also just mad skilled and just doesn’t get the credits for it
He has to play neutral. He's like one of the only characters in Ultimate who requires extremely good neutral play because so many of his moves are unsafe versus competent players. Yes spindash is really good but ultimately its not like 90% of the rest of the cast where they can just spam their best tools without much counter-play, you really need to know what you are doing to master Sonic. But because he's not braindead fair/nair/bair like 99% of the cast and requires playing patiently the community hates him. Its exactly why i stopped playing competitive Ultimate, its extremely linear across the cast and the few characters that aren't really like that are widely hated (minus Fox) because they don't play flashy.
@@nicksgamingchannel spindash ABSOLUTELY is spammable lmao, online proves that to the tee. And I think you're right that Sonic needs to play neutral, but the opponent needs to play AGAINST Sonic. A character that can literally choose if and when they will interact with you. Playing against a Sonic of any skill level can already be very draining and annoying, but Sonix really has mastered the playstyle of capitalizing on his opponents' impatience.
@@martinusmaas31 Online play is not representative of a true tournament setting at all. I do not care about that, Sonic is unreactable online yes (same with quite a few characters, like ZSS down-b), but offline is an entirely different story. There's a reason it took like 2-3 years of competitive Ultimate play for Sonic to finally be considered a top tier, for a long time he was largely considered a mid/low high tier character simply because of how difficult actually playing him is. His execution isn't difficult (although he is one of the few characters in the game that has some important movement tech like spinshot and cancelling it), its his actual neutral play thats difficult. You are effectively playing as a character with very crap kill power and very mediocre hitboxes in a game with a LOT of disjoints and fairly easy kill moves/confirms (especially as you go up the tier list), his speed is the only thing that makes him viable. As a result you have to master his movement, his tech, and his matchups to do basically anything, he's probably one of the most difficult characters to play as a result. Again this is not considering online play, as thats an entirely different (and significantly worse) setting. Offline I'm strictly speaking about. In offline Sonic can easily be hit while he's in spindash with basically any disjoint. Or reacted to with shield, etc. He's automatically in disadvantage with side-b on shield as it only has one hit so he's effectively helpless until he gets out of spindash. And down-b is very risky at high % due to its nature of dropping players out of the mutli-hit. I have lost tourney sets before from that. Most people bitching about how Sonic is "spammable" are complaining about the online matches which is fair, offline is an entirely different ballpark with him, its significantly easier for a good player to punish him for spamming spindash, notice how most other Sonic players that relied on this offline fell off extremely quickly once other players started to understand the MU. Sonix has always been one of the few Sonic players to not rely on just getting in with spindash, he deliberately fakes out constantly and keeps opponents guessing to get in, and thats what makes him work. He's one of the few players to actually understand Sonic is not just about spamming side-b or down-b and thats why he's easily the best Sonic player now. I've been rooting for him since he first started playing.
@@nicksgamingchannel you're telling me that you based the manifesto you just typed on OFFLINE play?
Dude, >90% of the ENTIRE community will not actually learn a character, but rather do exactly what you described in your first comment: braindead spam of the best tools of the character they play, combined with basic nair-fair-bair stuff.
I play mostly online elite smash and offline with friends (I have >2200 hours so I'd like to say I'm above average with my characters). The problem with Sonic is that for those +90% of the playerbase (who don't bother to learn matchups or study/train with their main) he is an annoying character that lends itself to play campy and avoid interactions. Besides, I think Sonic's specials are quite good. Not to say they're broken, but they are not bad and require little knowledge to implement correctly.
But still, kudos to you for having an actual conversation with me without ripping into each others' families and loved ones, like how almost all the discussions in the SSBU community end.
I like you man!
@@martinusmaas31 offline play is what matters for actual competitive play. There's a reason why (covid aside) nearly every serious tournament is an offline tourney. Online play adds way too much input lag and potential for desync to be comparable to offline, at least for Smash.
I appreciate a civil conversation :)
This came out a day after Hungrybox made a video about Sonix.
Honestly Sonix's combo game with Sonic is nuts
Honestly it’s pretty cathartic to see a solo main player who has embraced his character and the grind fluster up this toxic community. They kind of deserve it fr
Interesting that it's usually a sonic pfp that often defends sonic. Not saying it's bad but just an interesting observation
@@zanyskeleton5291nah bro the toxic smash community deserves this. Sonix grinded way too hard and should be respected
@@twinkles9575 I agree, but that doesn't necessarily mean people will enjoy his playstyle
His skill is outstanding.
Sonix top 1 player
Future 🐐
Y E S.........
The goat that nobody knows
The Goat that everyone hates, so fcking annoying
I’ll say based
The best!!
My goat
Sonix hater fans talk like dr.eggman
The fact I've actually heard in certain comment sections verbatim "I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG!" only confirms my theory that Smash players are secretly part of the reformation of the Eggman Empire.
Sonix Sonic is Sonik
bro… the read at 3:06