Into Darkness would still have worked just as well if John Harrison was simply a member of Khan's crew and that Khan was still in one of the torpedoes. The nods to Wrath of Khan would still work and the questions over casting Cumberbatch would have gone too.
I thought of this as well would have been a great way to show the Audience that even one of Khan's Lackey is as dangerous as him. Add a music que when he finds his People and Khan is in one of them in the pods would have been the chefs' kiss.
Killing Hugh was such a waste. He could have been an integral part to that Seven of Nine series they want to make. I'd be fine if they found a way to retcon that and bring him back. I'm also very upset about Rios. He was really good, especially commanding Stargazer.
@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 yes, I hated icheb's but at least they didn't tease icheb, and they used him as part of Sevens call to action. With Hue they brought him in, suggested they could be a bigger part of the story, along with the XB's, all for a quick death an episode later, and then Seven commandeering the Borg cube, which really left nothing else for the Borg to do with that story. Liked the queen in season 2 much better
@@veggiet2009 Interesting. I always felt that Icheb was a more polished and even improved version of Wesley. He didn't hesitate to put his own life into jeopardy if it meant saving Seven's life in Voyager. But, yeah, I agree. Hue's death was very pointless. It didn't feel like a twist in the story at all and only served as a throwaway death to show Narissa as a villain (also pointless too). The most I would have done was had Hue severely injured as Narissa tried to kill him, but still had him survive. Knife blade wounds shouldn't necessarily result in a death with 24th century medicine on your side. Heck even Picard survived being stabbed in the back and heart by a Nausicaan.
One thing I really don't like about Picard is that the show doesn't respect the characters it is using. Yeah it has too much action and it's a bit too dark, but I could excuse those things if it just treated the franchise with more care and didn't feel so transparently like a cash grab. I can forgive Discovery--its a story for someone, just not necessarily me and that's okay. But Picard is like when you grow out of your toys and your parents let your little siblings have them and they totally ruin them after you cared for them for years. It's not the fact that someone else is playing with it in a different way (i.e. Discovery), it's that the person who has them now doesn't give a crap about them at all and is keeping the next person down the line from enjoying them.
I hated ST: Nemesis for many reasons, and B4 was one of the big reasons why - especially when Picard looked at B4 head and said something along the line of not seeing another android like Data before. My friends and I were literally yelling in the movie theater, "LORE! What about Lore?" Also, Commander Sela should have been the big bad in Nemesis.
Wesley's "return" just felt nonsensically tacked on, it was a cameo for cameo's sake and it showed. The issue with Ndoye is it was telegraphed a hundred lightyears off. The bit NO ONE ever seems to get about the scream in TWoK is Kirk was hamming it up on purpose to play to Khan's ego over a communicator, not a single "...aaaaannnnn" was genuine which just makes JJSpock's yell look even more ridiculous.
Disco has a bad habit of having these long winded goodbyes that yank the cord at the last minute for a "gotcha!" no one actually dies moment. It's killed any sort of credibility of having a potent emotional scene in discovery for me permanently.
Way better way to give omage to the original scene with a twist would have been. Spock staying kneeling next to the glass silently until one of the others would have gone to check on him asking him if he is ok or help him. Then he would have stand up turn around showing the audience the anger on his face and only then he would have said it "Khaaan..." not yelling it but with the certain strength that everyone in the theater would have known Khan is a dead man. The storm out of the room with the others standing there stunned of what they just witnessed.
Actually there is one good thing to come out of Wesley's cameo: We learn where the Supervisors come from and who selects them: The Travelers. Absolutely with you on the other things.
Honestly, I was more interested in the Khan twist from Into Darkness when Kirk and Khan were doing the space jump and sneaking through the Vengeance, and were actually working together and helping each other. It just would have been an interesting subversion to play up the similarities between the two men, show them developing a genuine respect for one another and go down the whole ‘in another life we could have been friends’ path instead of just making Khan a moustache-twirling villain. Then he did the heel turn, and my interest levels hit the floor…
Especially when the resolution of Space Seed was them actually making peace with each other and Khan’s people settling on Seti Alpha 6 (or 5!). JJverse has been VERY big on Destiny for the characters. The command crew of the Enterprise aren’t just talented officers that worked together; they’re fated to be lifelong bonded adventuring companions that will save the Universe. Khan isn’t just an antagonist that Kirk met; he’s Kirk’s eternal supervillain nemesis. Hell, TOS villains like Trelane, Lazarus, and Gary Mitchell were more deadly than Khan was in the 60’s series. I’m just waiting for a more deadly high action karate version of the space hippies from The Way to Eden
For me it's the series finale of Enterprise. Nothing comes close to realizing that every episode you had watched over it's run, meant nothing. Disgraceful end.
Given that Star Trek is a show meant for entertainment, I don't really get "angry" at much. However, that Enterprise finale is genuinely aggravating on so many levels. I've only watched it once and I refuse to accept it's actually "canon".
Agreed. It was basically the "it was all just a dream" trope and it was awful. Especially given how good Enterprise had become in its later seasons. It deserved a proper conclusion.
The script and the performance were all secondary to the actual casting. Just having him appear in Trek again was good decision. Maybe the only good decision in the scene.
For B-4, my theory there is that B-4 and Shinzon are, actually, Sela's fault. Having her behind the initial idea for Shinzon, makes sense...and her finding out about B-4 makes sense for her little bit of thing towards her trying to understand her mother who was rather close to Data.
What really pissed me off was at the very ending of the first JJ Trek films Pike stands up from his wheel chair and promotes Cadette Kirk to be the actual Captain of the USS Enterprise. That was like giving a US Navy Cadette at Annapolis command of the USS Nimitz. I can see giving Kirk a few jumps in rank for his valor but to jump him from Cadette Ensign Lieutenant, Junior Grade Lieutenant Lieutenant Commander Commander to Captain was ridiculous. A Captain is forged through years of experience and maturity.
Kirk's promotion in JJ Trek is outrageously nonsensical. Yes, field promotions exist, but Pike knows that this Kirk has problems with authority and anger management issues. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
UGH...I also hated Kirk's ascension from cadet to captain. They could have had a time jump from his Academy days to several years into his Starfleet career...but nope.
I hate the reset of Picard for season 3. When Picard was announced, everybody thought it would be "TNG Season 8". Then they went to extreme lengths to explain to everybody that it's a new series and the TNG crew will not reunite. I got over the disappointment, had a fresh look on the whole project and REALLY enjoyed the new characters in season 1. I was so excited to see the new crew come together in season 2 and see their story unfold. And just when I started to really get to know the characters (Rios, Soji, Elnor,...) they just went 180 degrees, kicked everybody out and said: April fool, now that you like the characters we are going to fire them all, and do TNG season 8 after all. Pretty disappointing to me, after an awesome season 1. If they had done TNG season 8 from the start, great. If they had continued with the new characters in season 3, awesome. But changing course now, after we just warmed up to the new characters is just .... bad. Either do TNG season 8 from the start, or do a new series altogether. But don't try to shift direction in the middle of it. That's the first time in 30+ years that I got really upset about a direction that Trek is taking.
I was expecting the Enterprise finale to make the list. Having the entire show be apparently just a holodeck lark for Riker was certainly a twist, and a highly unwelcome one. The goal was to make the episode a goodbye to the whole era of Trek that had started with TNG, but each of the other shows had gotten their own sendoff, and it did Enterprise yet another disservice (on top of being cancelled before having the seven year run of the other spinoffs) that it did not deserve.
my favorite explanation as to why Kahn says his name is that he was (assuming the kelvin universe Kahn is the same as the Prime universe) a massive warlord that controlled a large chunk of earth before being ousted and as such he expected he name to be remembered and feared
Absolutely right! Khan's ego would lead him to say his name like that. And he expects it to be recognized. Kirk doesn't actually seem to know who he is. Which considering Khan was 'absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world' in the 1990's is kinds surprising.
The off screen death of Ro Laren was something that pissed me off . I loved the character and hoped that she too would make the jump to the big screen with the crew . This off screen death was cheap and robbed the fans of a chance to say goodbye. Plus some fans believe she never died and could still come back . If she is alive I say Picard season 3 is a great time for to return .
The thing about the Khan reveal in Into Darkness... that was kinda our own fault. Before 2009 even premiered, fan groups, message boards, and every facet of social media involving Star Trek was abuzz with "Will Khan be in the next movie?" - "Who will play the new Khan?" - "I hope they don't bring Khan back" positive or negative, it was a flood of "Khan", "Khan", "Khan", plus the fact that Wrath of Khan remains the defacto "best Star Trek film" in the eyes of much of the fandom (not me though). With all the bean counters and number crunchers delivering this information, it was literally impossible for the second film to NOT involve Khan. To even suggest to the Paramount executives, with this information in your hand, that Khan shouldn't be in it would be enough to get you fired, as it would appear you are trying to cost the studio what they feel is guaranteed money. Some blame on the deception can also be laid at our feet,... because for too long, film/TV critics across the internet (the unpaid variety) would bitch and moan over anything that appeared remotely predictable, practically demanding that everything have some kind of unexpected twist or swerve, to be of any worth at all. Well... be careful what you wish for, because eventually Hollywood will listen... and you won't like their response. Am I forgiving the film for all this? No. But as Spock would say in two TOS episodes "I did not say I agree with it, I said that I understand it"
I agree fully. And want to add that sometimes we can never please fans because of theory culture. If it fits the theory it's too predictable, if it doesn't fit fan theory it's lazy writing or disrespectful to the fans. It is soooo frustrating.
@@woogha And at this point, there are too few "established fans" left to carry a franchise on their own. So even appealing to their every whim will only result in losses. We've had over fifty years. That is multiple times longer than almost any other franchise you could name. There is plenty of content for us to enjoy, it is never going away, it will always be there. So it is time for us to step aside and pass the franchise off to the newer generation, like we should have been doing all along. TNG passed Star Trek to TOS's sons and daughters, but somewhere along the way, those sons and daughters neglected to do the same. Its about time we did. I am grateful for the time I had, and I will always treasure it. Anything beyond that at this point is a bonus, but I am not about to dictate to others what they are or are not allowed to enjoy just to fit my own personal tastes. IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations If New Trek is there to cater to Millennials, then so be it. It is their time to have their Star Trek anyway. Better to let them have it, than fight to keep it from them. Soon enough, another new generation will have their time too.
I agree on the way Khan was introduced into ST: Into Darkness. When Harrison revels his true identity...."My name is.... Khan" Even though I've been a Trekker for over 50 years, my personal reaction was "so?". I felt for new or non Trek fans the buildup to Khan's revelation had no proper foundation. No reason to get excited.
It's covered in the 10 Most Pointless Deaths list from the other day, funnily enough loads of people mentioned Hugh's should have been there in it's place 😂
StarTrek into darkness has too many bugs for me to ignore. Anyone else want to mention the interplanetary transporter that was the size of a small suitcase??? Did it need to be Khan?? It looked as if the writers left it to the last minute to make a script.
No kidding. If I remember they missed a big thing that the suitcase just got him to a nearby location with the actual interplanetary transporter based on Scotty/Spock's from the first JJ Start Trek. One of things that got edited out or something, but is was a massive thing to leave out,
The biggest miss of the Kelvin Timeline was not doing "Where No Man Has Gone Before" as a feature length film. Cumberbatch would have suited such a role extremely well.
I'm just confused about how they reconcile Wesley's appearance as a lieutenant, back in starfleet, in 2379. He is in dress uniform at Riker and Troi's wedding in Nemesis. Did he leave and go back?
Most of these issues I personally liked, very human, very much in a realistic place. Shinzon's thing though, was gratingly dark and quite disturbing for Trek but again, shows the darkness held in real life. Speaking of darkness, Spock's decent into anger to avenge Kirk I thought was great, even the scream. It showed the horror of a Vulcan's mind they struggle to hide and him being part human really gave a great way for him to slide into that primal hatred, anger, pain. JJ has his issues with movies but I thought the Trek trilogy he did wasn't that bad and had a lot of great things in its own right
Rios was my favorite character in Picard, but once I realized what was going on in S2, I was hoping he would stay in the past. It just made so much sense that he finally found what he was looking for, the brooding BS from S1 was just a front. Dr. Teresa made him the happiest he’s ever been, temporal directives be damned.
hey sean, when can i expect an explanation video about the holodeck? i still don't know how 2 different crewmember would be able to walk in opposite directions without one of them inevitably walking into a wall...
My understanding is that, when there is more than one person in the holodeck, and they move apart, the simulation partitions itself, basically creating separate environments for everyone.
For the record - [for me] . . . I watch all Star Trek - recognizing that it always has it's "hits and misses" [with the exception of Strange New Worlds which has so far "hit" on every episode to date = = soooo good!] . I don't get too out of shape over it as when a TV/Movie is trying to "go where no one has before" - you're going to miss sometimes. When they hired JJ Abrams => I KNEW that there would be issues. He is in truth a great action director however unlike Spielberg - he doesn't capture the nuances and emotional stuff well. JJ bragged about how he was NOT a Star Trek fan and actually had never watched ANY of it !!! So how does someone that clueless get the job OR believe that he can pull off a successful reboot??? Star Wars the Force Awakens [7] was a "regurgitation" of a "New Hope" [4] - - they just took the old story line - mixed up genders and races/aliens pretty much and there you have it. So unoriginal and boring. At least The Last Jedi was original - - Rian Johnson took a bunch of flack for what he did but JJ got a pass = I don't understand it! Just crazy! If you like the story that much - just watch a New Hope again! George waivered of 1 - 3 and then JJ pretty much blew up Star Wars with 7 - 9. Jon Faverau has restored some much needed life into the franchise. But Boba Fett and Obi Wan stumbled yet again!
That's why I never watched Abbrams Trek. All those movies just look like "Star Wars but with the Enterprise" which doesn't work. Also, those ships look ugly.
Benedict Cumberbatch is an amazing actor. If anybody had to play the role of Khan other than Ricardo Montalbon they couldn't have gone with a better choice.
As a fan of Star Trek (TOS), the entire hideous botch of the so-called Kelvin alternate timeline--the perpetrators betrayed both the show and the fans, not just once, but several times, each as hideously gratuitous as possible. 1) They killed Amanda; 2) They destroyrd Vulcan; 3) They killed most of the Vulcans. 4) They at the very last remade the JJprise bigger than even the Enterprise -D or -E. 5) Even worse, they neglected their due diligence in altering the fenestration to allow for their changes. This cluster-eff simply is *not* canon.
Yes! To me this seemed like a fan-fiction writer wanted to write Star Trek stories but too many of the solid rules got in the way so he clean-slated the whole thing so that he could make up some new rules, which completely invalidated everything that made Star Trek wonderful in the first place!
Also violations come out of left field as Troi was part of the landing party had it been him as a Picard clone even younger having hots for Beverly, maybe. It was as others mention a setup for later to target his ship.
I have been so busy the past couple years that I have not even seen much of the new startrek. I didnt even know Pikard was a show on air till recently and now finding out its got multiple seasons already, so much of this video made no sense to me since I have not seen 90% of the shows or episodes you talked about. I haven't seen a startrek movie since Into the Darkness. I didn't realize I had been so out of touch with myself for that long. what have I been doing with my life.. i need to re-evaluate everything
Agree 100%. However, when this video flashed Spock Prime on the screen on the Abrams 1701, this thought occurred to me: If Harrison had remained the villain, if the Kahn plot line had been passed over, what plot device might they have used to justify a non-interfeering Spock Prime cameo? Leonard Nemoy's role in Into Darkness as it was released was great and almost makes the Kahn nonsense tolerable! But what else might they have used him for if not a stern warning against their greatest foe?
Well, not everyone 10- Just glad the traveler story continued 9- Didn’t watch 8- I’m ok with it 7- That sucked 6- He deserved happiness and better than just dead 5- One of my fav episodes 4- Wish it happened earlier 3- I completely geeked out/ Absolutely loved him showing his human side 2- That was disgusting and felt like a cut and paste of the “Violations” episode 1- Agreed
Hugh wasn't fridged. "Fridging," coined from the Kyle Raynor Green Lantern story moment, refers specifically to the grossly sexist trope of killing a woman important to the male protagonist in order to motivate said male protagonist.
Rios staying in the past was quite obvious from early on. As for the timeline, it's not the timeline they came from and a timeline that had the new Borg Queen. What made no sense was that Guinan had the picture and the memory of them. Because it didn't happen in the "prime timeline" as is efficient by the Borg Queen coming from a different timeline.
6:59There was a first, when Seven had that Fling on choosing Chakôté during one scene in sickbay, taking relationship advice from EMH, and the Commander walked in on them. He was confused on the matter, because she did it on impulse. The 2nd time was on the Holodeck 2 part WWII episode with the Hurogens.
pretty sure this is my first time commenting on your work. Normally I agree and love your take on Star Trek. both new and old. With Spock's cry out of Khan, yes I agree it was a bit of a "copy" "indulgence" yes, but Kirk's bellow in "The Wrath of Khan" in my opinion is equal to his speech during the original series when he gave the speech of "risk" and "why " they "are aboard her". And to be fair, long time fan and Kirk vs Picard. I am a Kirk fan. But since TV, Satellite and IPTV has shut me out of Strange New World and the latest season's of Discovery and Picard, , I am not up to date on Star Trek lore. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
One of the great things about Kirk's "Khaaaaaaaannn!" is that it sounds over the top, but he's selling it. He wasn't Khan to think he's in a much worse position than he is. He's had his code chat with Spock, so he knows he's fine, but Khan doesn't.
In Justice League Unlimited, there's a short story arc where members of the Legion of Superheroes time travel from the 31st century to ask the Justice League for help. They are reticent to allow Supergirl to come with them, because in their history books, it is written that Supergirl never returned from that mission. They assumed this meant that she would die on this mission, but in reality, she never returned to her own time because she chose to stay in the 31st century and become a member of the Legion. And that is how I choose to look at Rios staying behind: it's not that he is inconsequential to the future, but rather that his name doesn't appear in the history books because he was always meant to stay behind. He was meant to live the rest of his life with Teresa, to be one of the guiding influences that led her son (whose name I already can't remember) to become the medical scientist who used Renee PIcard's discoveries to work miracles.
Lore was disassembled by Data after “Descent, Part II” and probably sent to Dr. Bruce Maddox with a “study, but do not copy this design” note. I’m pretty sure no one in their right mind would
The episode that pissed me off the most was, "Stardust City Rag." Maybe I didn't see enough previews or didn't get the memo, but with a fun sounding name and the lead characters in interesting costumes, I was expecting a fun romp kinda episode, something to lighten the mood a bit before dealing with dangers from Romulans and other dimensional machines. I Was Not ready for the despair/anger fueled bloodbath. One thing I love about SNW is the balance between serious & fun episodes. I'm not sure I can forgive them killing off Hemmer, though. Time will tell.
The greatest tragedy of Star Trek Into Darkness is that its shameless, ham-handed, and wholly unnecessary "fan service" probably helped JJ Abrams get the job of directing The Force Awakens, enabling him to put his mediocre (at best!) mark on yet another beloved science fiction franchise that just so happened to begin with the word "Star."
You left out half the problems with the Shinzon one. 1. Same premise done more artfully before in the episode Violations. 2. Why can Remans do that if they're genetic relations to Romans and Vulcans? Did they evolve longer telepathic range? 3. Aren't there better uses of such telepathy in the midst of a big power gambit?
Could you put the series and movies that are going to be in your lists in the description so if someone isn't caught up we will know if there are spoilers in the video. I love your lists and find the reasons interesting but the sit in my to be watched for a long time waiting for me to catch up.
radiation skin damage looked more realistic in 1982 movie than it did in 2013, they couldn't be arsed to at least give him a sun tan look? If radiation was severe enough to kill that fast there should've been a lot of damage
Absolutely everything after star trek nemesis. I mean we thought Nemesis and enterprise are bad, but today i would give my right arm to have something new like nemesis or Enterprise ... What a shame 😥
I can accept B4 being added, but what I cannot forgive is the complete lack of mention of Lore within the movie. When they found him, that should've been the immediate logical conclusion of anyone on the crew, as they were all quite familiar with Data's existing sibling.
If John Harrison would have ended up being Col Green that’s first introduced in the savage curtain I would have accepted it and it would have made perfect sense.
Oddly, I enjoyed seeing Wesley return in Picard. I felt that his character had been wasted since the ending of the TNG series and having him be with the traveller seemed like a great thing. Instead, in ST Nemesis, Wesley made an extremely brief cameo but it explained nothing as to what he was doing. I do agree that Chakotay and Seven of Nine being together didn't really make sense either as nothing been prior established to show it.
The ending of Discovery S4 (?) with Andoye was annoying mostly because they did the same fakeout twice with Book also "dying in a ship explosion" but not in quick succession.
The role flipping in Into Darkness didn't bother me because the movie was poorly done and by that point I just didn't care anymore. I had a laugh at the scream, that was it. It was a shale because I really liked the first Abrams Trek movie.
Raping Diana was bad enough the first 2 times it happened. (The Child and that episode where she was mind raped.) It was honestly a great insult that it happened again, even if her using the connection to the viceroy lead to them beating the cloaking of Shinzon's ship. I would have liked to have seen some more personal growth for her rather than what felt like someone writing in some revenge porn due to her negotiating for more money this time around.
@Robert Stallard Seems like you missed a number of episodes where she was VERY important. It's a shame. There were good episodes where she had to face her insecurities and grow, including the episode where the ship was disabled and she was left in command, forced to decide the fates of the crew based on a lack of information. There was also the time she'd lost her empathic abilities and had to try to give guidance to a woman who had recently lost her husband. She had to work past the insecurities and remember that she doesn't need them to be helpful. TNG was TERRIBLE about giving proper moments for growth to the female characters.
Wedding scene in Nemesis: imagine the reason Worf's drinks are a match for his constitution aren't the alcohol, but the citrus added last by the bartender. That'd be a pretty enraging twist. 😉
The Temporal Prime Directive doesn't apply to the present. If Rios decides to commit suicide in 2401, it is his decision. The same goes for disappearing (even into the past). Only if he changed the course of history in the 21st century, he would violate the Temporal Prime Directive.
I would love to have seen Wesley Crusher return in Picard the problem is we got Wil Wheaton. He didn't even appear to attempt to channel the character. I've worked with Wil and he feels more like Wesley in just his normal everyday than he did on this segment. On top of it, it felt like yet one more tangent introduced into a show, which while I loved, seemed to have issues staying focused!
I love and absolutely agree with #7. If they were going to kill Hugh off they could have waited til the season finale. But I don't know where you are getting #6. Q confirms it was always supposed to be this way. Guinian says Rios did a lot of good in the past after he stayed. In fact Guinian knew him back then. His staying in the past mattered as much to the present as He did to the crew of the La Sirena while he was there.
I need to preface this by stating that I've been a huge fan of Wrath of Khan, since childhood. I don't join in objection to the Khan twist in Into Darkness, nor the homage with the "Khan" scream. I think I was going into the theater, knowing that Cumberbatch was Khan, and hoping for some twists on the WoK material. Into Darkness had me right up until the chase scene. I might have had just the right set of expectation for this movie, that made it one of my favorites. I actually do think that the Khan twist was kinda important. It's really really difficult to picture a Starfleet Officer (even a disgraced one) doing some of the things that he does. And the movie makes use of his enhanced abilities to justify why he presents a physical threat to our action star characters. Could these things have been done another way? Yeah, I guess. This one works for me, though. What irked me was Leonard Nimoy showing up, telling us, instead of showing us, that Khan was dangerous. My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary. Live long and prosper.
the bigest twist in trek history was giving the movie franchise to someone who was incompetent and then giving the tv franchise to someone who equally incompetent
I kind of disagree with the Rios disappointment as the way they told his story after he stayed behind actually contributed to the future results as if he staying behind was his destiny
Must admit, most of this list meant very little, for after watching everything from TOS to Into Darkness (I'm old), the reveal of Cumberbatch being Kahn was the point where I gave up on Star Trek.
I hear you. Took me a little longer to give up. But I too am old, and even with all the spoilers floating around at the time, I still couldn't believe my eyes. They had rebooted the entire franchise. Different timeline. No Vulcan. Five-year mission hadn't occurred. They really couldn't get a cleaner slate. They were where Roddenberry was in 1966, but with hundreds of millions of dollars, seasoned film actors, a mature special-effects industry, and a built-in fanbase. They could have done anything. For inspiration there were decades of comics, books, multiple spin-off series, a mountain of fan fiction that would put Olympus Mons to shame, and over 40 years of real-world events. And still they couldn't think of anything better, more original, or more creative than "let's bring back Kahn, but with none of the backstory or emotional weight"? The mind boggles.
Rios, (is that correct) if you follow time travel shenanigans, being left in the past meant he was ALWAYS supposed to remain in the past. However, maybe the actor had something come up that interfered with him being on set. An ailment. Home life. Another gig.... And he needed to be written out, also giving a way to return a deceased character to the franchise. Some of y'all didn't like the role reversal in "into darkness" with Spock and Kirk? I thought it made sense. Earlier in the movie we are given a moment where Kirk is punching Khan but Khan is absolutely unaffected. So why would Kirk chasing Khan down and fighting him AGAIN make any difference? He was completely outclassed in their respective weight class. A Vulcan however is stronger, faster, and more durable than a human, even a half breed. So SPOCK chasing Khan and fighting him made much more sense than what happened during the 60s TV series.
What is it about TNG writers, and Deanna getting violated? (The Child, The Survivors, Violations, Star Trek: Nemesis. Maybe a dis-honourable mention to Man of the People as well??)
I'd put Seven and Raffi right up there with her and Chakotay. Both relationships felt forced and like they were just shoed in for the sake of Seven being in a relationship. Trek's made plenty of relationships believable before but can't seem to do so with her. She's a complex character, probably more than most, so writing a relationship that works for her wouldn't be easy, but I feel like they could do a lot better than they have.
I don't know, I liked her arc with Chakotay. I'm not sure I liked them as a couple, but I think it did work as a way for Seven to explore that part of her humanity in a less hamfisted way than with Harry or when she went on a date with that guy.
Honestly, the Kelvin timeline showing Kirk in the Kobiyashi Maru scenario was ham-fisted and over the top. We knew he -ahem- changed the conditions of the test...but even he would not have been so comically over the top in the exam after doing so.
the biggest twist that pissed people of was when they turned this thoughtful franchise into blockbuster nonsense in 2009. Something the franchise hasn't recovered from since
A lot of these didn't bother me (but I never did see Into Darkness, so I can't comment on those). I agree Q in DS9 just didn't seem to work, though. And anyone who decided the Wesley Crusher twist was somehow "bad" is clearly just going out of their way to be angry about stuff.
People need to stop pissing their collective pant about Wil Wheaton’s ST return. I was thrilled and sad that his screen time was only a five minute affair. I hope it amounts to more in the future.
Into Darkness would still have worked just as well if John Harrison was simply a member of Khan's crew and that Khan was still in one of the torpedoes. The nods to Wrath of Khan would still work and the questions over casting Cumberbatch would have gone too.
I love this idea so much!
I thought of this as well would have been a great way to show the Audience that even one of Khan's Lackey is as dangerous as him. Add a music que when he finds his People and Khan is in one of them in the pods would have been the chefs' kiss.
Absolutely!! and this way they wouldn't have Spock yelling "Khahhhn"👍🏾
Great idea...👍
He could have played any villain, with any agenda. It was cheap lazy writing to cast him as Kahn.
Killing Hugh was such a waste. He could have been an integral part to that Seven of Nine series they want to make. I'd be fine if they found a way to retcon that and bring him back. I'm also very upset about Rios. He was really good, especially commanding Stargazer.
And killing Ichep too. I liked Ichep and felt that he was an awesome character.
@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 yes, I hated icheb's but at least they didn't tease icheb, and they used him as part of Sevens call to action. With Hue they brought him in, suggested they could be a bigger part of the story, along with the XB's, all for a quick death an episode later, and then Seven commandeering the Borg cube, which really left nothing else for the Borg to do with that story.
Liked the queen in season 2 much better
@@veggiet2009 Interesting. I always felt that Icheb was a more polished and even improved version of Wesley. He didn't hesitate to put his own life into jeopardy if it meant saving Seven's life in Voyager. But, yeah, I agree. Hue's death was very pointless. It didn't feel like a twist in the story at all and only served as a throwaway death to show Narissa as a villain (also pointless too). The most I would have done was had Hue severely injured as Narissa tried to kill him, but still had him survive. Knife blade wounds shouldn't necessarily result in a death with 24th century medicine on your side. Heck even Picard survived being stabbed in the back and heart by a Nausicaan.
One thing I really don't like about Picard is that the show doesn't respect the characters it is using. Yeah it has too much action and it's a bit too dark, but I could excuse those things if it just treated the franchise with more care and didn't feel so transparently like a cash grab. I can forgive Discovery--its a story for someone, just not necessarily me and that's okay. But Picard is like when you grow out of your toys and your parents let your little siblings have them and they totally ruin them after you cared for them for years. It's not the fact that someone else is playing with it in a different way (i.e. Discovery), it's that the person who has them now doesn't give a crap about them at all and is keeping the next person down the line from enjoying them.
Watch them bring back Naomi Wildman and have her dismembered because why not.
I hated ST: Nemesis for many reasons, and B4 was one of the big reasons why - especially when Picard looked at B4 head and said something along the line of not seeing another android like Data before. My friends and I were literally yelling in the movie theater, "LORE! What about Lore?"
Also, Commander Sela should have been the big bad in Nemesis.
Well, now she's the former empress.
Wesley's "return" just felt nonsensically tacked on, it was a cameo for cameo's sake and it showed.
The issue with Ndoye is it was telegraphed a hundred lightyears off.
The bit NO ONE ever seems to get about the scream in TWoK is Kirk was hamming it up on purpose to play to Khan's ego over a communicator, not a single "...aaaaannnnn" was genuine which just makes JJSpock's yell look even more ridiculous.
Disco has a bad habit of having these long winded goodbyes that yank the cord at the last minute for a "gotcha!" no one actually dies moment. It's killed any sort of credibility of having a potent emotional scene in discovery for me permanently.
Not to mention that for a Vulcan JJSpock is very emotive. Too much over acting.
Way better way to give omage to the original scene with a twist would have been. Spock staying kneeling next to the glass silently until one of the others would have gone to check on him asking him if he is ok or help him. Then he would have stand up turn around showing the audience the anger on his face and only then he would have said it "Khaaan..." not yelling it but with the certain strength that everyone in the theater would have known Khan is a dead man. The storm out of the room with the others standing there stunned of what they just witnessed.
Actually there is one good thing to come out of Wesley's cameo: We learn where the Supervisors come from and who selects them: The Travelers. Absolutely with you on the other things.
Honestly, I was more interested in the Khan twist from Into Darkness when Kirk and Khan were doing the space jump and sneaking through the Vengeance, and were actually working together and helping each other. It just would have been an interesting subversion to play up the similarities between the two men, show them developing a genuine respect for one another and go down the whole ‘in another life we could have been friends’ path instead of just making Khan a moustache-twirling villain.
Then he did the heel turn, and my interest levels hit the floor…
Especially when the resolution of Space Seed was them actually making peace with each other and Khan’s people settling on Seti Alpha 6 (or 5!). JJverse has been VERY big on Destiny for the characters. The command crew of the Enterprise aren’t just talented officers that worked together; they’re fated to be lifelong bonded adventuring companions that will save the Universe. Khan isn’t just an antagonist that Kirk met; he’s Kirk’s eternal supervillain nemesis. Hell, TOS villains like Trelane, Lazarus, and Gary Mitchell were more deadly than Khan was in the 60’s series. I’m just waiting for a more deadly high action karate version of the space hippies from The Way to Eden
For me it's the series finale of Enterprise. Nothing comes close to realizing that every episode you had watched over it's run, meant nothing. Disgraceful end.
Given that Star Trek is a show meant for entertainment, I don't really get "angry" at much. However, that Enterprise finale is genuinely aggravating on so many levels. I've only watched it once and I refuse to accept it's actually "canon".
Agreed. It was basically the "it was all just a dream" trope and it was awful. Especially given how good Enterprise had become in its later seasons. It deserved a proper conclusion.
One thing to note about Wheaton’s performance on Picard: he was in the hospital prior & they had to reschedule the shoot because of it
The script and the performance were all secondary to the actual casting. Just having him appear in Trek again was good decision. Maybe the only good decision in the scene.
What really pissed me off was the fate of Vulcan in JJ Trek.
I hate that part so much.
Hot take-JJ Trek was 100% trash end to end. The only good thing it gave us were excellent casting and giving Uhura more to do that hail frequencies.
For B-4, my theory there is that B-4 and Shinzon are, actually, Sela's fault. Having her behind the initial idea for Shinzon, makes sense...and her finding out about B-4 makes sense for her little bit of thing towards her trying to understand her mother who was rather close to Data.
While trying to get my own fan series off the ground, Paramount definitely needs to hire you.
What really pissed me off was at the very ending of the first JJ Trek films Pike stands up from his
wheel chair and promotes Cadette Kirk to be the actual Captain of the USS Enterprise.
That was like giving a US Navy Cadette at Annapolis command of the USS Nimitz.
I can see giving Kirk a few jumps in rank for his valor but to jump him from
Cadette
Ensign
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
to
Captain was ridiculous.
A Captain is forged through years of experience and maturity.
Kirk's promotion in JJ Trek is outrageously nonsensical. Yes, field promotions exist, but Pike knows that this Kirk has problems with authority and anger management issues. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
It's like the Mage's Guild in Skyrim. At least I felt like I earned the position in Oblivion.
UGH...I also hated Kirk's ascension from cadet to captain. They could have had a time jump from his Academy days to several years into his Starfleet career...but nope.
Also with the exceptions of Spock and Scotty, the entire crew is not only "fresh out of the academy" they never actually finished.
Wait, no love-or hate-for the Enterprise finale?
Frankly that should have been #1.
It's on too often. Variety is the spice of life eh?
Only one twist pissed off everyone, hiring Bad Robot/Jar Jar Abrams to ruin Star Trek.
JJA - the franchise killer 😆
agreed
Imagine if, instead of the scream, Zach Quinto had spoken a line nice and calmly, like "I shall avenge you." 😉
By Grabthar's Hammer... you shall be avenged.
"By Grabthar's Hammer, by the suns of Warvan, you shall be avenged" -Spock
@@michaelcook7107 Damn! You beat me to it. 😂
Chakotay and Seven probably broke up over an argument over assimilation vs. appropriation.
😂
I hate the reset of Picard for season 3. When Picard was announced, everybody thought it would be "TNG Season 8". Then they went to extreme lengths to explain to everybody that it's a new series and the TNG crew will not reunite. I got over the disappointment, had a fresh look on the whole project and REALLY enjoyed the new characters in season 1. I was so excited to see the new crew come together in season 2 and see their story unfold. And just when I started to really get to know the characters (Rios, Soji, Elnor,...) they just went 180 degrees, kicked everybody out and said: April fool, now that you like the characters we are going to fire them all, and do TNG season 8 after all. Pretty disappointing to me, after an awesome season 1. If they had done TNG season 8 from the start, great. If they had continued with the new characters in season 3, awesome. But changing course now, after we just warmed up to the new characters is just .... bad. Either do TNG season 8 from the start, or do a new series altogether. But don't try to shift direction in the middle of it. That's the first time in 30+ years that I got really upset about a direction that Trek is taking.
I was expecting the Enterprise finale to make the list. Having the entire show be apparently just a holodeck lark for Riker was certainly a twist, and a highly unwelcome one. The goal was to make the episode a goodbye to the whole era of Trek that had started with TNG, but each of the other shows had gotten their own sendoff, and it did Enterprise yet another disservice (on top of being cancelled before having the seven year run of the other spinoffs) that it did not deserve.
Why do you assume the show is a holodeck program and not simply the episode itself?
my favorite explanation as to why Kahn says his name is that he was (assuming the kelvin universe Kahn is the same as the Prime universe) a massive warlord that controlled a large chunk of earth before being ousted and as such he expected he name to be remembered and feared
Absolutely right! Khan's ego would lead him to say his name like that. And he expects it to be recognized. Kirk doesn't actually seem to know who he is. Which considering Khan was 'absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world' in the 1990's is kinds surprising.
The off screen death of Ro Laren was something that pissed me off . I loved the character and hoped that she too would make the jump to the big screen with the crew . This off screen death was cheap and robbed the fans of a chance to say goodbye. Plus some fans believe she never died and could still come back . If she is alive I say Picard season 3 is a great time for to return .
It's been a while since I've watched TNG or DS9. When did this happen?
Thank you. 🖖🏻
The thing about the Khan reveal in Into Darkness... that was kinda our own fault.
Before 2009 even premiered, fan groups, message boards, and every facet of social media involving Star Trek was abuzz with "Will Khan be in the next movie?" - "Who will play the new Khan?" - "I hope they don't bring Khan back"
positive or negative, it was a flood of "Khan", "Khan", "Khan", plus the fact that Wrath of Khan remains the defacto "best Star Trek film" in the eyes of much of the fandom (not me though). With all the bean counters and number crunchers delivering this information, it was literally impossible for the second film to NOT involve Khan. To even suggest to the Paramount executives, with this information in your hand, that Khan shouldn't be in it would be enough to get you fired, as it would appear you are trying to cost the studio what they feel is guaranteed money.
Some blame on the deception can also be laid at our feet,... because for too long, film/TV critics across the internet (the unpaid variety) would bitch and moan over anything that appeared remotely predictable, practically demanding that everything have some kind of unexpected twist or swerve, to be of any worth at all. Well... be careful what you wish for, because eventually Hollywood will listen... and you won't like their response.
Am I forgiving the film for all this? No. But as Spock would say in two TOS episodes "I did not say I agree with it, I said that I understand it"
I agree fully. And want to add that sometimes we can never please fans because of theory culture. If it fits the theory it's too predictable, if it doesn't fit fan theory it's lazy writing or disrespectful to the fans. It is soooo frustrating.
@@woogha And at this point, there are too few "established fans" left to carry a franchise on their own. So even appealing to their every whim will only result in losses.
We've had over fifty years. That is multiple times longer than almost any other franchise you could name. There is plenty of content for us to enjoy, it is never going away, it will always be there. So it is time for us to step aside and pass the franchise off to the newer generation, like we should have been doing all along. TNG passed Star Trek to TOS's sons and daughters, but somewhere along the way, those sons and daughters neglected to do the same. Its about time we did.
I am grateful for the time I had, and I will always treasure it. Anything beyond that at this point is a bonus, but I am not about to dictate to others what they are or are not allowed to enjoy just to fit my own personal tastes.
IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
If New Trek is there to cater to Millennials, then so be it. It is their time to have their Star Trek anyway. Better to let them have it, than fight to keep it from them. Soon enough, another new generation will have their time too.
@@k1productions87 I'll never stop being a fan. Trek hasn't changed for me. It is all good
Thank you Sean for those inspiring words of wisdom🙏
I agree on the way Khan was introduced into ST: Into Darkness. When Harrison revels his true identity...."My name is.... Khan" Even though I've been a Trekker for over 50 years, my personal reaction was "so?". I felt for new or non Trek fans the buildup to Khan's revelation had no proper foundation. No reason to get excited.
No mention of Icheb's horribly violent, torturous death? That was worse than Hugh's death.
Agree.. it was so much worse!!
It's covered in the 10 Most Pointless Deaths list from the other day, funnily enough loads of people mentioned Hugh's should have been there in it's place 😂
StarTrek into darkness has too many bugs for me to ignore. Anyone else want to mention the interplanetary transporter that was the size of a small suitcase??? Did it need to be Khan??
It looked as if the writers left it to the last minute to make a script.
No kidding. If I remember they missed a big thing that the suitcase just got him to a nearby location with the actual interplanetary transporter based on Scotty/Spock's from the first JJ Start Trek. One of things that got edited out or something, but is was a massive thing to leave out,
The biggest bug for me: The Enterprise is falling out of the moons orbit torwards earth... SERIOUSLY?
The biggest miss of the Kelvin Timeline was not doing "Where No Man Has Gone Before" as a feature length film. Cumberbatch would have suited such a role extremely well.
Hugh's death was completely pointless. Beautifully acted, but you can't polish a turd.
Seán, I for one *loved* the Wesley Crusher cameo on "Picard," and Wil Wheaton is as rabid and legit a Trek fan as is any of us.
I wasn't pissed off or even annoyed by any of these twists except for the Harrison/Khan debacle, the Spock scream, and Shinzon the rapist.
I'm just confused about how they reconcile Wesley's appearance as a lieutenant, back in starfleet, in 2379. He is in dress uniform at Riker and Troi's wedding in Nemesis. Did he leave and go back?
More likely they forgot 😆
that one was a screw up for sure
In my head canon, since time and space are irrelevant, he lives both lives simultaneously. One as a Starfleet officer, one as a traveler.
There are multiple timelines and the future and past in Season 2 are a different timeline than where the show starts and ends.
Don't think about it, it's what the writers wanted you to do at that moment.
Most of these issues I personally liked, very human, very much in a realistic place. Shinzon's thing though, was gratingly dark and quite disturbing for Trek but again, shows the darkness held in real life. Speaking of darkness, Spock's decent into anger to avenge Kirk I thought was great, even the scream. It showed the horror of a Vulcan's mind they struggle to hide and him being part human really gave a great way for him to slide into that primal hatred, anger, pain. JJ has his issues with movies but I thought the Trek trilogy he did wasn't that bad and had a lot of great things in its own right
Rios was my favorite character in Picard, but once I realized what was going on in S2, I was hoping he would stay in the past. It just made so much sense that he finally found what he was looking for, the brooding BS from S1 was just a front. Dr. Teresa made him the happiest he’s ever been, temporal directives be damned.
I loved seeing Wesley on Picard! It was a perfect closure to his story. I thought it was beautiful.
The "twist" that pissed me off more was JJ Abrams' reimagining of STAR TREK and redesign of the Enterprise.
Really only two of these bothered me, zero of them "pissed me off."
Wow... this has to be the first list that actually has everything I was hoping it would on it.
hey sean, when can i expect an explanation video about the holodeck? i still don't know how 2 different crewmember would be able to walk in opposite directions without one of them inevitably walking into a wall...
Or like an entire baseball game 🙄
My understanding is that, when there is more than one person in the holodeck, and they move apart, the simulation partitions itself, basically creating separate environments for everyone.
For the record - [for me] . . . I watch all Star Trek - recognizing that it always has it's "hits and misses" [with the exception of Strange New Worlds which has so far "hit" on every episode to date = = soooo good!] . I don't get too out of shape over it as when a TV/Movie is trying to "go where no one has before" - you're going to miss sometimes.
When they hired JJ Abrams => I KNEW that there would be issues. He is in truth a great action director however unlike Spielberg - he doesn't capture the nuances and emotional stuff well. JJ bragged about how he was NOT a Star Trek fan and actually had never watched ANY of it !!! So how does someone that clueless get the job OR believe that he can pull off a successful reboot??? Star Wars the Force Awakens [7] was a "regurgitation" of a "New Hope" [4] - - they just took the old story line - mixed up genders and races/aliens pretty much and there you have it. So unoriginal and boring. At least The Last Jedi was original - - Rian Johnson took a bunch of flack for what he did but JJ got a pass = I don't understand it! Just crazy! If you like the story that much - just watch a New Hope again! George waivered of 1 - 3 and then JJ pretty much blew up Star Wars with 7 - 9. Jon Faverau has restored some much needed life into the franchise. But Boba Fett and Obi Wan stumbled yet again!
New trek is just wrong and ST 09 has more emotion then all of discovery!!! You dont know what your talking about
That's why I never watched Abbrams Trek. All those movies just look like "Star Wars but with the Enterprise" which doesn't work. Also, those ships look ugly.
Benedict Cumberbatch is an amazing actor. If anybody had to play the role of Khan other than Ricardo Montalbon they couldn't have gone with a better choice.
Ok now we _definitely_ need *_“10 Seán Ferrick Meals That Made Everyone Nauseous”_* 😁
As a fan of Star Trek (TOS), the entire hideous botch of the so-called Kelvin alternate timeline--the perpetrators betrayed both the show and the fans, not just once, but several times, each as hideously gratuitous as possible. 1) They killed Amanda; 2) They destroyrd Vulcan; 3) They killed most of the Vulcans. 4) They at the very last remade the JJprise bigger than even the Enterprise -D or -E. 5) Even worse, they neglected their due diligence in altering the fenestration to allow for their changes. This cluster-eff simply is *not* canon.
Yes! To me this seemed like a fan-fiction writer wanted to write Star Trek stories but too many of the solid rules got in the way so he clean-slated the whole thing so that he could make up some new rules, which completely invalidated everything that made Star Trek wonderful in the first place!
Also violations come out of left field as Troi was part of the landing party had it been him as a Picard clone even younger having hots for Beverly, maybe. It was as others mention a setup for later to target his ship.
Spock yelling was a wonderful nod. Solidified alternate timeline the best.
I have been so busy the past couple years that I have not even seen much of the new startrek. I didnt even know Pikard was a show on air till recently and now finding out its got multiple seasons already, so much of this video made no sense to me since I have not seen 90% of the shows or episodes you talked about. I haven't seen a startrek movie since Into the Darkness. I didn't realize I had been so out of touch with myself for that long. what have I been doing with my life.. i need to re-evaluate everything
Agree 100%. However, when this video flashed Spock Prime on the screen on the Abrams 1701, this thought occurred to me: If Harrison had remained the villain, if the Kahn plot line had been passed over, what plot device might they have used to justify a non-interfeering Spock Prime cameo? Leonard Nemoy's role in Into Darkness as it was released was great and almost makes the Kahn nonsense tolerable! But what else might they have used him for if not a stern warning against their greatest foe?
Well, not everyone
10- Just glad the traveler story continued
9- Didn’t watch
8- I’m ok with it
7- That sucked
6- He deserved happiness and better than just dead
5- One of my fav episodes
4- Wish it happened earlier
3- I completely geeked out/ Absolutely loved him showing his human side
2- That was disgusting and felt like a cut and paste of the “Violations” episode
1- Agreed
Hugh wasn't fridged. "Fridging," coined from the Kyle Raynor Green Lantern story moment, refers specifically to the grossly sexist trope of killing a woman important to the male protagonist in order to motivate said male protagonist.
I loved Spock shouting Khan, it worked for me
Rios staying in the past was quite obvious from early on. As for the timeline, it's not the timeline they came from and a timeline that had the new Borg Queen. What made no sense was that Guinan had the picture and the memory of them. Because it didn't happen in the "prime timeline" as is efficient by the Borg Queen coming from a different timeline.
A number of those are pefectly valid. A few I just find confusing. One is, Don't hate Westly. He's fine.
I've got to see the first season of Picard.
Heal up your ankle and feel well soon.
6:59There was a first, when Seven had that Fling on choosing Chakôté during one scene in sickbay, taking relationship advice from EMH, and the Commander walked in on them. He was confused on the matter, because she did it on impulse. The 2nd time was on the Holodeck 2 part WWII episode with the Hurogens.
Also that holodeck program with the Hirogen.
Icheb's torture/death really pissed me off.
pretty sure this is my first time commenting on your work. Normally I agree and love your take on Star Trek. both new and old. With Spock's cry out of Khan, yes I agree it was a bit of a "copy" "indulgence" yes, but Kirk's bellow in "The Wrath of Khan" in my opinion is equal to his speech during the original series when he gave the speech of "risk" and "why " they "are aboard her". And to be fair, long time fan and Kirk vs Picard. I am a Kirk fan. But since TV, Satellite and IPTV has shut me out of Strange New World and the latest season's of Discovery and Picard, , I am not up to date on Star Trek lore. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
One of the great things about Kirk's "Khaaaaaaaannn!" is that it sounds over the top, but he's selling it. He wasn't Khan to think he's in a much worse position than he is. He's had his code chat with Spock, so he knows he's fine, but Khan doesn't.
@@AndrewLakeUK so true, I still love how he did it.
In Justice League Unlimited, there's a short story arc where members of the Legion of Superheroes time travel from the 31st century to ask the Justice League for help. They are reticent to allow Supergirl to come with them, because in their history books, it is written that Supergirl never returned from that mission. They assumed this meant that she would die on this mission, but in reality, she never returned to her own time because she chose to stay in the 31st century and become a member of the Legion. And that is how I choose to look at Rios staying behind: it's not that he is inconsequential to the future, but rather that his name doesn't appear in the history books because he was always meant to stay behind. He was meant to live the rest of his life with Teresa, to be one of the guiding influences that led her son (whose name I already can't remember) to become the medical scientist who used Renee PIcard's discoveries to work miracles.
Lore was disassembled by Data after “Descent, Part II” and probably sent to Dr. Bruce Maddox with a “study, but do not copy this design” note. I’m pretty sure no one in their right mind would
The episode that pissed me off the most was, "Stardust City Rag." Maybe I didn't see enough previews or didn't get the memo, but with a fun sounding name and the lead characters in interesting costumes, I was expecting a fun romp kinda episode, something to lighten the mood a bit before dealing with dangers from Romulans and other dimensional machines.
I Was Not ready for the despair/anger fueled bloodbath.
One thing I love about SNW is the balance between serious & fun episodes. I'm not sure I can forgive them killing off Hemmer, though. Time will tell.
I also hate Picard being like „If you can withstand more attacks, I‘ll need you“, after Deanna begging to be dismissed.
The greatest tragedy of Star Trek Into Darkness is that its shameless, ham-handed, and wholly unnecessary "fan service" probably helped JJ Abrams get the job of directing The Force Awakens, enabling him to put his mediocre (at best!) mark on yet another beloved science fiction franchise that just so happened to begin with the word "Star."
With regards to Rios, Q once told Picard that no one was essential.
You left out half the problems with the Shinzon one. 1. Same premise done more artfully before in the episode Violations. 2. Why can Remans do that if they're genetic relations to Romans and Vulcans? Did they evolve longer telepathic range? 3. Aren't there better uses of such telepathy in the midst of a big power gambit?
I actually loved Wesley's return.
I didn't mind Wesley so much.
Could you put the series and movies that are going to be in your lists in the description so if someone isn't caught up we will know if there are spoilers in the video. I love your lists and find the reasons interesting but the sit in my to be watched for a long time waiting for me to catch up.
It's funny that with all his Traveler's powers, Wesley Crusher would choose to have a patchy, asymmetric, incomplete beard.
radiation skin damage looked more realistic in 1982 movie than it did in 2013, they couldn't be arsed to at least give him a sun tan look? If radiation was severe enough to kill that fast there should've been a lot of damage
It's definitely no coincidence that over half of this list consists of crappy stuff from 2009 onward.
Highly surprised the destruction of Vulcan wasn't on this list. It's the twist that put me off the new movies for good.
Absolutely everything after star trek nemesis. I mean we thought Nemesis and enterprise are bad, but today i would give my right arm to have something new like nemesis or Enterprise ... What a shame 😥
is the first scene with Brent spinner from trek ? because I don't remember that scene at all
I can accept B4 being added, but what I cannot forgive is the complete lack of mention of Lore within the movie. When they found him, that should've been the immediate logical conclusion of anyone on the crew, as they were all quite familiar with Data's existing sibling.
If John Harrison would have ended up being Col Green that’s first introduced in the savage curtain I would have accepted it and it would have made perfect sense.
Oddly, I enjoyed seeing Wesley return in Picard. I felt that his character had been wasted since the ending of the TNG series and having him be with the traveller seemed like a great thing. Instead, in ST Nemesis, Wesley made an extremely brief cameo but it explained nothing as to what he was doing. I do agree that Chakotay and Seven of Nine being together didn't really make sense either as nothing been prior established to show it.
I bet it was the same boom booms complaining that didn't like him on TNG in the first place
The ending of Discovery S4 (?) with Andoye was annoying mostly because they did the same fakeout twice with Book also "dying in a ship explosion" but not in quick succession.
The role flipping in Into Darkness didn't bother me because the movie was poorly done and by that point I just didn't care anymore. I had a laugh at the scream, that was it. It was a shale because I really liked the first Abrams Trek movie.
Raping Diana was bad enough the first 2 times it happened. (The Child and that episode where she was mind raped.) It was honestly a great insult that it happened again, even if her using the connection to the viceroy lead to them beating the cloaking of Shinzon's ship.
I would have liked to have seen some more personal growth for her rather than what felt like someone writing in some revenge porn due to her negotiating for more money this time around.
@Robert Stallard Seems like you missed a number of episodes where she was VERY important. It's a shame. There were good episodes where she had to face her insecurities and grow, including the episode where the ship was disabled and she was left in command, forced to decide the fates of the crew based on a lack of information. There was also the time she'd lost her empathic abilities and had to try to give guidance to a woman who had recently lost her husband. She had to work past the insecurities and remember that she doesn't need them to be helpful.
TNG was TERRIBLE about giving proper moments for growth to the female characters.
Wedding scene in Nemesis: imagine the reason Worf's drinks are a match for his constitution aren't the alcohol, but the citrus added last by the bartender.
That'd be a pretty enraging twist. 😉
😂
Into Darkness it the only Star Trek movie I have never seen and the one one that I do not own a copy of on any media.
I stand by that decision.
I think number 2 is the big one for me. Nemesis isn't great but it's an okay action movie but with that scene it just feels icky to me.
The Temporal Prime Directive doesn't apply to the present. If Rios decides to commit suicide in 2401, it is his decision. The same goes for disappearing (even into the past). Only if he changed the course of history in the 21st century, he would violate the Temporal Prime Directive.
how can the new star trek 2 flip twist make people angry. it was absolutely fantastic and an excellent way to revive the franchise
I see what you did with DISCO shirt :D
at 8:04, I never noticed dead Kirk has a starfleet shaped gouge on his cheek. Weird!!
I would love to have seen Wesley Crusher return in Picard the problem is we got Wil Wheaton. He didn't even appear to attempt to channel the character. I've worked with Wil and he feels more like Wesley in just his normal everyday than he did on this segment. On top of it, it felt like yet one more tangent introduced into a show, which while I loved, seemed to have issues staying focused!
I'm guessing he was trying to portray serene omniscience, like the original Traveler, but it came out like his narrator/host mode.
I love and absolutely agree with #7. If they were going to kill Hugh off they could have waited til the season finale. But I don't know where you are getting #6. Q confirms it was always supposed to be this way. Guinian says Rios did a lot of good in the past after he stayed. In fact Guinian knew him back then. His staying in the past mattered as much to the present as He did to the crew of the La Sirena while he was there.
Well right off the bat I know not to take this list seriously, considering number 10 was something that didn't piss everyone off.
I need to preface this by stating that I've been a huge fan of Wrath of Khan, since childhood. I don't join in objection to the Khan twist in Into Darkness, nor the homage with the "Khan" scream. I think I was going into the theater, knowing that Cumberbatch was Khan, and hoping for some twists on the WoK material. Into Darkness had me right up until the chase scene. I might have had just the right set of expectation for this movie, that made it one of my favorites.
I actually do think that the Khan twist was kinda important. It's really really difficult to picture a Starfleet Officer (even a disgraced one) doing some of the things that he does. And the movie makes use of his enhanced abilities to justify why he presents a physical threat to our action star characters. Could these things have been done another way? Yeah, I guess. This one works for me, though.
What irked me was Leonard Nimoy showing up, telling us, instead of showing us, that Khan was dangerous.
My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary. Live long and prosper.
the bigest twist in trek history was giving the movie franchise to someone who was incompetent and then giving the tv franchise to someone who equally incompetent
I kind of disagree with the Rios disappointment as the way they told his story after he stayed behind actually contributed to the future results as if he staying behind was his destiny
This is a community channel with the smartest, friendliest nerds on the planet. Im glad to be part of it.
Rios: Oh, I thought it was the " Temporary Prime Directive ".
😂 I'm stealing that!
Must admit, most of this list meant very little, for after watching everything from TOS to Into Darkness (I'm old), the reveal of Cumberbatch being Kahn was the point where I gave up on Star Trek.
:(
I hear you. Took me a little longer to give up. But I too am old, and even with all the spoilers floating around at the time, I still couldn't believe my eyes. They had rebooted the entire franchise. Different timeline. No Vulcan. Five-year mission hadn't occurred. They really couldn't get a cleaner slate. They were where Roddenberry was in 1966, but with hundreds of millions of dollars, seasoned film actors, a mature special-effects industry, and a built-in fanbase. They could have done anything. For inspiration there were decades of comics, books, multiple spin-off series, a mountain of fan fiction that would put Olympus Mons to shame, and over 40 years of real-world events. And still they couldn't think of anything better, more original, or more creative than "let's bring back Kahn, but with none of the backstory or emotional weight"? The mind boggles.
Rios, (is that correct) if you follow time travel shenanigans, being left in the past meant he was ALWAYS supposed to remain in the past.
However, maybe the actor had something come up that interfered with him being on set. An ailment. Home life. Another gig....
And he needed to be written out, also giving a way to return a deceased character to the franchise.
Some of y'all didn't like the role reversal in "into darkness" with Spock and Kirk?
I thought it made sense. Earlier in the movie we are given a moment where Kirk is punching Khan but Khan is absolutely unaffected. So why would Kirk chasing Khan down and fighting him AGAIN make any difference? He was completely outclassed in their respective weight class. A Vulcan however is stronger, faster, and more durable than a human, even a half breed. So SPOCK chasing Khan and fighting him made much more sense than what happened during the 60s TV series.
The Direction both Discovery and Picard took.
What is it about TNG writers, and Deanna getting violated? (The Child, The Survivors, Violations, Star Trek: Nemesis. Maybe a dis-honourable mention to Man of the People as well??)
I'd put Seven and Raffi right up there with her and Chakotay. Both relationships felt forced and like they were just shoed in for the sake of Seven being in a relationship. Trek's made plenty of relationships believable before but can't seem to do so with her. She's a complex character, probably more than most, so writing a relationship that works for her wouldn't be easy, but I feel like they could do a lot better than they have.
I don't know, I liked her arc with Chakotay. I'm not sure I liked them as a couple, but I think it did work as a way for Seven to explore that part of her humanity in a less hamfisted way than with Harry or when she went on a date with that guy.
Honestly, the Kelvin timeline showing Kirk in the Kobiyashi Maru scenario was ham-fisted and over the top. We knew he -ahem- changed the conditions of the test...but even he would not have been so comically over the top in the exam after doing so.
the biggest twist that pissed people of was when they turned this thoughtful franchise into blockbuster nonsense in 2009. Something the franchise hasn't recovered from since
Didn't piss me off, because it's FICTION!
A lot of these didn't bother me (but I never did see Into Darkness, so I can't comment on those). I agree Q in DS9 just didn't seem to work, though. And anyone who decided the Wesley Crusher twist was somehow "bad" is clearly just going out of their way to be angry about stuff.
People need to stop pissing their collective pant about Wil Wheaton’s ST return. I was thrilled and sad that his screen time was only a five minute affair. I hope it amounts to more in the future.