THE HARSH TRUTH ABOUT THE GBL ALGORITHM THAT MOST PLAYERS REFUSE TO ACCEPT!
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0:00 Intro
0:25 Question of the day
0:40 The algorithm
11:12 Legends tanking
14:45 Legends gatekeeping
17:17 Cheaters/hackers
19:13 Awful GBL state
29:19 Conclusion
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After 4 years of watching GBL debates I have yet to come across a single person who can tell me why whenever I switch my team the Pokémon that I’ve seen 99% of the time just completely vanishes from my future opponents. NOT ONE PERSON. I kno what Elo is, and Elo does not explain that fact
Because it’s a algo lmao like he says it doesn’t matter cause if you wanna play you’ll play but it does exist
It's just statistical chance.
It’s your imagination. When things go bad you remember more than when things don’t.
After those 2 comments I still have yet to find someone who can answer my question. If your only rebuttal for the thing that I watch physically happen everyday for years is chance or imagination then ur response has zero relevance.
The difference in getting an answer and getting an answer you want may seem different to you. But they are in fact the same thing...an answer. Lol. It's chance brother. It happens to me all the time. Shit every season. I still made it to legend since season 5. Just need consistency. Stop changing your team so much. Focus on the strengths and weaknesses of your team and pilot the shit out of it.
So 3 main things stop me in believing the algorithm: First, you forget more good things than bad things, in general. If something is annoying, like getting hard countered, it seems like it happens a lot more than hard countering someone else, since it's annoying to you, and all the hard-fought games where you just win or just lose don't stand out either, unless they're particularly exceptional.
Second, is the way the Elo system works in general: People gravitate towards 50%. In *any* given symmetrical PvP game with a functional matchmaking system, only a handful of people aren't going to be somewhere between 45-55% win rate after a large amount of battles.
Third, and most significant to me, is I really just do not believe Niantic is capable of programming something so functional. Debacle after debacle, bug after bug, they have a precedent for disasters. A perfect algorithm to counter you after a while, but not too long, would just be hilariously broken in all the wrong ways.
> Third, and most significant to me, is I really just do not believe Niantic is capable of programming something so functional. Debacle after debacle, bug after bug, they have a precedent for disasters. A perfect algorithm to counter you after a while, but not too long, would just be hilariously broken in all the wrong ways.
Not only that! Making the algorithm is a hard (very hard) problem to solve from a Software perspective. So, if they see the Go Battle League as a mini-game of low importance (which they do), what is a product manager more likely to do? Prioritize just matchmaking via Elo using a pre-made solution (1 week of dev work) or a very complex matchmaking algorithm that requires simulating potential battles in real time (quarters of dev work)?
If they had to chose between that and organizing a paid ticket event... Which one do you think they will chose?
This is so wrong.
A word about tanking....ive clearly benefitted a few battles on their way down but ive gotten many losses on their way back up when im in the 2000-2400...to me chess did it right by instituting a rating floor....to equate it to gbl, once you hit 3000, you would not be allowed to go below 2800 even if you lost every game after hitting 3000. The idea is that the really skilled chess players could not tank and win a large cash prize in the 1500s lets say. A rating floor keeps people of like skill playing others of like skill.
Here is the issue if you have a good day, for example, go 20-5
The next day, you have now jumped up a level ypu will face players with a better skill set..... so nutrual matches you were winning the day before. If you make a mistake, you're more likely to get punished.
The problem is that instead of having a open Wild West game that if you are legend you can just tank to get staff it should be that you stay at he Lv rank that you get am play only those players!
I would agree if I was losing due to being outplayed. Most of my losses are coming from just losing the RPS aspect, getting walled lead, switch, and closer. I used to be you make fun of people that said there was an algorithm but now I'm starting to understand they might be correct. I tried this double water team I saw and then suddenly there was Galvantulas, Lantern, Charjabugs on every team... Prior to trying out this water team I saw zero electric types. Went back to my original team, all the electrics suddenly disappeared..
@@ssj2trunks103hahahaha waaa cry some more get better stop blaming anything but that
It seems like no matter what, 100%, reliably, when I switch my lead Pokemon, I always get matched with a hard counter. I would start putting money on it if the raid passes weren't taking it all.
Can you provide any video proof or maybe from a streamer who this happens to?
U can experience it with ur 25 games a day. Just play 20 with 1 team and then switch ur team for the last set of 5 games and watch the magic happen
For every losing situation, there is a winning situation. So if you're losing 100% of time, your opponent is thriving off the algorithm. So where are the people who are winning the algorithm all the time or exploiting it to their advantage?
One problem with your thinking is if you win lead, then that's normal behavior, but if you lose, then the game is against you. So what happens if you were to compete against yourself? You would lose both ways?
Your main problem is likely not understanding which Pokemon to switch to. You should use the context of safe swap. Suppose you have a fire and grass Pokemon in your lineup. You lead with Talonflame and your opponent has Swampert. You must resist the temptation to switch to grass. Sure, grass kills Swampert, but by switching first, you lose switch advantage. He probably built a team with water and fire, to bait you into using grass. Now you're locked in and eating incinerates. Your first swap shouldn't be to counter his Pokemon, but to be a safe swap. Something like a Snorlax (fighting), Drapion (ground), or Sableye (fairy) that only has one weakness. This drastically reduces your chances are getting hard countered off the first swap.
@@user-zj3vn6qm4ppoke Ak has shown this a million times
QOTD: My thoughts on the Algorithm are basically the same as HomeSliceHenry’s. They’re elo based and random (unless you get stream sniped of course lol). If you get a bunch of bad leads you’re just terribly unlucky with the people who you’re getting matched up against. It’s not the game giving you bad leads or bad teams.
Agree
The only thing I'd say is it isn't entirely bad luck. Usually the meta shifts slightly day to day, and a shift around can give you an advantage.
As an example, if a lot of people run annihilape in the lead on one day, tou might see mantine leading more the next day. Doesn't always happen like this, but it sometimes gives you more consistent match ups if you notice quick enough.
Its a huge coincidence that most people get unlucky all the time. In the last 3 months I haven't even had a single neutral lead. Either I get matched vs guys who I counter 100% or teams who 100% counter all my pokemon.
"Niantic isnt that smart" - I'm not sure you noticed that GBL is outsourced so Its another company
You're wrong
100% real
Easy to explain: The more you spend the more you are favored. This game is a casino app basically. High rollers get preference.
This video is just straight facts, I agree with basically every point you made:
1. It doesn’t matter if the algorithm exists or not, you just have to focus on what you CAN change (aka your knowledge and skills).
2. Legends tanking is a problem with the way the game is designed and it is NOT the fault of any players just trying to maximize their rewards.
3. Legends might still want to play the game even after getting all their rewards, they are NOT required to give out free wins to non-legend players.
4. If cheating gives an advantage over other players, especially if it’s a competitive advantage, then it’s definitely unfair.
5. The state of the game right now is AWFUL and it is unacceptable that Niantic is doing nothing to fix it.
Great video!
As someone who's hit Legend in the past, and had this discussion with 2 other local Legend Rank battlers; this is how I feel about it:
Regardless of what video game you play, there is a matchmaking algorithm system which pairs players based on skill level, elo, location, availability etc - and Pokemon GO is no different to any other game out there that has online functionality.
The thing I hate the most about GBL is the blind three format. The game is honestly that bad into implenting this format that we are forced to approach and learn new strategies based around guesswork, which is not only out of our control, but makes it unnecessarily harder than it needs to be.
What GBL is missing is a unranked mode - where we can go into GBL, and use that game mode to test out new team comps, practice battle strategies, and be able to take the time to understand how all the core mechanics work without being penalised by a shitty elo system if you make any sort of trial and error. Currently, the only way you can have this sort of unranked mode is if you're able to find anyone to do practice battles to begin with.
I would like to see more tutorials for certain battle mechanics and battle strategies too. Because not only does the game do a terrible job at explaining shit, most GBL Content creators don't do a thorough job in explaining advanced mechanics and strategies to help people get out of bad situations like hard lead loss or hard counters. Maybe more of that can help players understand the game more thoroughly and be able to defeat the algorithm. Because it is definitely doable, but only if we are taught the correct way in getting out of bad situations in matches.
Before I even knew anyone had ideas about an "algorithm" I completely expected that Niantic did have something setup to counter users after either a certain number of wins, or when the scales tip toward some greater-than-50% win ratio.
This is because I have run teams that get countered by one particular Pokemon that I am seeing on like 75% of teams in the last 2 full sets I have battled. So then I change up team to counter that specific Pokemon and then that Pokemon pretty much disappears. As in, the next 2-3 sets I do, I will barely see the Pokemon that was previously in 75% of all the teams I was facing. I will finish through my sets, and maybe see it 1 more time or something if I stick with the new team.
And on top of that, I have often seen that when I switch teams like that, to specifically counter a particular Pokemon, then I suddenly see all sorts of Pokemon and team comps sometimes that I have not seen at all throughout the entire open-format GBL season I am playing. Pokemon that almost no one plays, and that happen to handily counter the new team I have picked.
And even still - when you do stick with a team, YES, you will eventually hit a good lead, or start winning more consistently - but this definitely takes a bit after you have switched when you are getting smacked down. Which points to the idea that when you are on an uptick of wins, or start seeing those fair leads again, the "algorithm" is then just picking randomly, or maybe even choosing YOUR TEAM as the counter to someone else who has started moving too far past the 50% win rate.
I agree, however, that even if the algorithm exists, the people with the best skill, who can most skillfully maneuver through the activities of "the algorithm" are the ones that hit the higher ranks. For sure.
I 100% believe in the algorithm. Literally every single time I get about 10 wins a row, the next 10 battles I'll get nothing but hard counters.
The algorithm is awfully suspicious when I saw one bronzor in 10 battles with a bite pokemon, but as soon as I swapped bite pokemon for poison jab pokemon, my next set had 5 bronzor...
nah bro it doesn't exist according to every streamer that literally gets paid to play Niantic's game.....you just have to gEt BetTeR wItH GaMe MecHanIcS
@@squatchinsportspodcast Someone sounds salty
@@squatchinsportspodcast What a conspiracy theory. Why would Niantic even be interested to pair you in particular up into bad matchups and not the others who got to lead Bronzor into a poison type? What did they do that Niantic gives the great leads?
Do you believe this is a reverse-psychology marketing strategy to make people frustrated?
Can you show that's a thing, do you find that in any marketing textbook or can you show it's an industry best practice?
I don't necessarily mind the algorithm, but I think it's unfair most of the time. Some of us don't have the resources to raid or get the XLs for certain pokemon, and to get some of the meta pokemon with good ivs is hard, so, some of us like to use decent pokemon but the game screws you over. And sure you can learn, you can improven but how? The lag in GBL this season was INSANE. They made so many changes in the game that affected other side of it, specially GBL, the start lag, when you're thoring a charge move, skipping frames, frozen screen, when I say that I lost because of the game, i mean it.
I’ve played league of legends for a long time and having the mind set of 40% of games are easy wins, 40% of games are hard losses, and the other 20% is skill based has helped me handle the rps style of go battle league. Also if you call a coin toss wrong 5 times in a row the coin isn’t broken you just got unlucky.
Sure there is match making, based on ELO… and that’s it.
It doesn’t need more than this.
And yes basically it holds you close to 50% because if you climb you face other Trainer with higher ELO till you not climb (you re not climbing at 50%) I tried it a few times… if I play daily I m ~55% winrate… but if I make a 1-2week break as I hit better players as me… and only look for climbing, I reached 2900 ELO with a 68% winrate.
There is nothing more, it needs nothing more.
And of course, you climb if you use meta Pokémon or Pokémon which breaks meta cores… so good players and bad players with good teams are climbing faster/higher than other… which leads finally in a different meta on different ELO ranges.
Elo rating is calculated using a formula generated by a physics professor for chess. The lowest possible Elo in chess is 100. That's based off that formula. I'm guessing Niantic uses a similar formula but has a minimum of 300.
Pokemon GO uses Glicko-2 which is based on the Elo system
QOTD: No algorithm. Just a very stale meta in a blind pick-three format. People who run an incidental spice pick and hoping it can fight the meta often don't possess the knowledge to create a team with synergy, or the depth of team reading, move counts, and energy management, and _certainly_ not enough to break the very, very common cores that plague the current meta. As such, they are frequently countered, even when they have somewhat favorable lead matchups. It's why Grasshole -- and similar RPS team comps -- are so painfully common.
Please remember, that for each general elo range, you will see a sort of 'stratification' of team comps, and respectively popular teams thereof. It's not some mythical computer program that's keeping you down; it's merely other players running what works for them and trying to climb/grind. I highly doubt Niantic _could_ even implement an algorithm that forces players in sub-tier elo brackets, because, frankly put, and based upon the absolutely insane decisions being made by the company, Niantic simply isn't that smart.
There is of course some sort of algorithm for match making. The obvious is matching based on elo as well as time zone (try playing in rural area at 2 am and youll be matched with the same players over and over). There is probably other things it selects for but the one thing that is certain is that it doesnt work as Niantic intended, lol.
When people refer to "the algorithm" in this content, they mean it's modified in a way based on your lead pokemon and movesets somehow to make you loose deliberately in order to make you frustrated and drive sales.
It definitely exists. Every PvP game has a form of this and I 100% agree with this video. The only to climb for sure is to use the best mons. Sitting at 2200+ Eli from 1700 using the meta. Even then all sets aren’t 5-0 mostly 3-2.
Algorith is definitley real, but there are definitely plays that better players see and can make to flip terrible matchups. Any team can have another team that just walls it. Becoming a better player and getting better Pokemon is always possible despite what the Algorithm does to you
100% agree. I think the algorythm exists (and can be turned on to mess OR help you), but in the end, it doesn't change the way I should play.
I must be able to squeeze wins in the worst scenarios, and not mess up if I have an advantage.
Algorythm or not, good players are able to climb. So I should try to be a good/better player.
About players tanking: It's not against the rules. For any reason, if you want to do it, do it.
I’ve been playing the game for almost 2 years now and I finally hit expert for the 1st time in the great league remix. I think the thing that helped me the most was just sticking to the same team that I built. It had its share of weaknesses but overtime I learned how to play through the less than ideal matchups with it. Anyway I really wanted to hit legend but just can’t get over the hump and now that catch cup is here I’m back down to 2700 lol maybe next season!
Aside of the interlude seasons (5 and 10) it was really difficult for me to get to legend rank. I used to watch a lot of gameplay on TH-cam (I still do more than ever) and got a lot of knowledge but the legend rank still wouldn't come for me. I believed I was ready for it back to season 8 or 9, but I wasn't able to get it and started blaming the algorithm, also noticing that a really good day of sets (e.g. 16/25) was always followed by a bad one (e.g. 9 or 10). I wondered how I could level up my elo if I was only able to go back and forth between the 2600s and the 2900s. I was at the point of deciding whether it was worth keep trying or not. Then, in season 11, after a heart-pounding 3/5 set with hard counters on both the 2nd and 3rd battle, with my body shaking I managed to get to 3000+. It was the biggest relief in a while. I went outside home and walked for miles. Since then, I've always been legend but there are some thing I want to make everyone notice. All the battlers are improving, fast or slowly, so levelling up is going to be more and more difficult. This season for example I floated in the 2400s for all the first month. I was wondering, "is everyone improved so much all of a sudden?". People were aware of win conds and everything else already in the 2400s. Then with battle weekend and one more day I had a blast of 600 points to get to legend. Ultra league was a blessing for me. Some seasons it was easier, others it was more difficult for me to get legend, but here comes what I want to say. The first and most important thing, alongside types, resistances etc, is mastering a team or two in every main league. Gotta be aware of the main matchups, and find the ways of winning close battles, if there are. One single meta team, if mastered, is enough to gain elo, even if it may seem to be countered every now and then. No team is perfect against all the meta. Then, there are a lot of skills that make the difference between a 2600s elo player and a legend one. I'm talking about team predictions, fast move timing, knowledge of the energy required for charge moves, sense of baiting and getting baited, knowledge of attack stats for CMPs, undercharge, move catches with also 1-2-3-4 turn pauses, cmp sac swaps,
always overfarming as much as possible, stalling and play with the switch clock... I could go on for days. About the algorithm I feel like it's still a thing to be aware of, but its impact may have been reduced. My phylosophy is, "There are some battles you can't win but you MUST win when you hard counter the opponent and you've got to maximise the wins out of the neutral ones".
As a 7 time legend player, I feel bad for the people who are under 2500 rank who are heavily affected by the algorithm.
There's no such thing lol
then do 10 matches, swap your lead every game 😘
@@itzmatosI think this may have been sarcastic lol
This is me all the way 🫠
@@184Switch huh, I guess you're right yeah
I can literally predict the leadout based on my team. The algo is not only real, it’s insanely obviously and predictable .
There is a matchmaking Algorithm. It's designed to match you with teams that are weak to or strong against you. This is simply a fact but people only think of it in a negative way. For example, if your team has dragons on it, you have a very high chance of encountering a fairy, steel, ice or other dragon type.
If you, get hard-walled every game, it's more of a team building issue rather than the game targeting you specifically or bullying you. The game is trying to keep matches interesting by giving you obstacles to overcome and if you built a well-rounded team then you would have answers to things that are strong against you. News flash, this algorithm doesn't discriminate. This is the same for every player. You can make the absolute most insanely random team you can think of and I promise you the algorithm will match you with the 1 person running the most random core-breaker you can think of. Luckily the number of players running that random core-breaker at a particular time is likely to be very small so you'll probably only have to face that pokemon a handful of times if you stick with the same team.
On another note, if you switch your team literally EVERY battle, you will likely encounter very different Pokemon very often but those teams will likely still contain some META pokemon. The thing with the META is that they're meta for a reason, they can usually cover a wide range of pokemon so you'll see them more often than others because they're likely strong against (or weak to) a lot of pokemon.
Haha dear god it must suck to be this dumb
There’s been days where I just can’t get a good lead to save my life, and I’ll switch some stuff around, then all the sudden my next lead is getting walled. I think to myself “wow I am unlucky as all hell” I don’t believe in the algorithm, because I’ve hard lost lead and still won many many times due to calling baits/catching moves etc. as Jamie says “learn to count”
We’ve all had good and bad GBL days, and theres a lot of factors that exist besides thinking a game is targeting oneself specifically
I've lost interestin battling due to the algorithm. Now I just enjoy your videos and play it casually.
I think exactly like you do Callum. People use the Algorithm as an excuse why they cannot climb past a certain rank and it just silly.
I can climb to 2500 but from time to time, no matter what I do, I'll have two weeks stuck around 2000 with about 80% lost leads no matter what I play.
The algorithm creates balanced matches on paper, that's fine if you know how to team build. But some of us get shafted systematically by the pokémon order.
There shouldn't be mediocre players easily climbing to near Legend by constantly running shadow Gligar lead and never encountering ice and water types in the lead.
A few days ago I've played several sets with Golbat in the lead and often faced Basti and Carbink lead. Now I'm playing Quagsire and the rare Bastiodons and Carbink I face are always well hidden.
When I tend to win streak it's not because I play better but because I get equally boring games that are in my favor for a change.
People can't admit it when their wins are not deserved, usually.
PvP basically doesn't exist in Pokémon Go.
QOTD: it is real but I agree with Nerds Rising, at the end of the day whether it is real or not, we all have to deal with it and the better players can overcome it. Although Niantic can easily target who they want to (PokeAK). That is my opinion.
I feel there is skill no doubt, but it's more luck than anything else. No amount of skill level can decide what lead you are going to get and to come back from a bad lead is very skillful, but it not possible most of the times. Also a scald debuff which is luck based or a night slash boost which is also luck based can completely flip a game. IMO it just boils down to how lucky you can get, regardless of skill level.
QOTD: I think there is some sort of match making algorithm. Non GBL example, If you do multiple raids on the same boss, look at the autorec team . The recommended Pokémon will resist the raid boss’s charged move. I noticed this during mewtwo raids. I was able to guess the charge move based on the recommended team. HOWEVER, I don’t think any algorithm conspires to keep you down nor does it take away your agency for improving your battling skills or team building. In the end, it’s just like Callum says. The game mechanics are fixed and it doesn’t matter whether you believe in it or not. Take charge and of the variables that are in your control.
I'm not sure if I believe in it myself, but I do have a friend who is confident its real and does tend to blame a lot of his losses on it. Neither of us are THAT great at the game. We know a lot of the tips n tricks, like team comp, catches and under charging moves etc. But neither of us are really that good at counting energy, or knowing exactly how to plan ahead for matches.
I can say there are a lot of matches where it FEELS like there is an Algorithm, but I know from watching youtube channels like this and HomeSliceHenry that there are times you can beat teams that should have the advantage if you know how to play correctly.
So while I cant say for sure how I feel about the existence of an Algorithm, ultimately I do try not to blame the match up system since I know, at least for myself I still have a lot of learning to do.
Well said brother
As someone who refuses to use meta, I can say with certainty that a lot of players between 2000-2500 are there for a reason. Even though a lot run pure meta, they make a lot of simple mistakes.
The biggest issue with 'the algorithm' is that a lot of average players use it as an excuse. Instead of doing what you're doing and realising where you can improve, they blame the game for losing and don't change anything. Then they get hard stuck in mediocrity. There's a reason why you can watch people like Callum use daft picks and still pick up wins.
Keep doing what you're doing, you've got a great outlook on how to succeed!
Is there an algorithm? Yes
Is it designed to make sure that your win rate is at certain level by matching you with hard-counter team? Doubtful
Does it matter? Not really
Any team will have its weakness, a core breaker. Does it mean you should top-left? No. You can still win if you can outplay the opponent or the opponent misplays or the opponent lags.
Point is the algorithm is something that’s out of our control. No use dwelling on it. What’s more important are the things we can control - like the team you use and how well you play.
Where'd you get the CallumOnToast hat?
I managed to hit legend one Time I think 1 leg gave me a free win in my final set. They had me beat, all they had to do was throw a charge attack and they won but they hit top left instead
The algorithm is real. But we know there are ways to overcome it. The game will help you if you lose too much, and make it more difficult when you win too much. All done by which pokemon you face. But almost any matchup can be flipped with good gameplay.
Yeah gbl is amazing but it’s been hard to make the meta fun :(
That’s because Niantic refuses to make the necessary buffs and nerfs to upset the apple cart and force basic b*tch mon like cres and registeel out of the meta for years.
Just the meta!??? The game is having big problems… lol the only saving grace is that it is Pokemon…
The algo didn’t stop me from playing the game cause it is what it is being able to build ultra league and xl mons which is a completely other game in itself that I do not have the time for did
I honestly used to not care at all and not really think much of it but one day I switched a team and instantly got hard coutered by a froslass lead into infernape hard counter switch (it was pretty funny). After that I started paying more attention and it does seem like sometimes when you change team they just give you random shit thats not even good that many times.
But tbh there is way bigger stuff that needs our attention rn.
KingGbl a smaller content creator made a video on how the game is many times unplayable for some of us regafrding lag, stutters, the meta and the updates and the awfull inconsistency overrall with the game mechanics. These are way more important. The algorithm is just annoying occasionally
I think there is some kind of algorithm for sure, but not as toxic as most people seem to think. I rarely change my teams but when I do I run into completely different teams than previously. I don’t think the algorithm keeps you at 50% I think it keeps you from triple hard countering teams that you are playing intentionally. I have generally around 50% win rate but I do get large streaks of both winning and losing. Currently running 5-0, 4-1 and 3-2 sets in catch cup little but the pervious cups had me all way down at 1600 elo because I couldn’t get winning sets in that meta.
What we need isn't elo. It's more a gate keeping the ones who got each level and only matching them up with others of that level.
Skill based it's definitely better because if you run into a legend at 2400-2500 elo. Theres not much for the legend facing off against the ace. (Some would argue the knowledge, but i digress)
The legends would match against others and you can then run spice for fun.
The elo doesn't really help for this game. Since skill and elo are two different things trying to do the same thing.
This is exactly right. It’s the difference between being a problem solver and lamenting a problem to the point that it’s debilitating. Well said sir!
I beleive in the Algo, but i do not think it has any bearing on being able to win matches. It only exists to promote balanced matchmaking and gameplay with your ELO range...but can be overcome by skill and teambuilding
I do think there is an algorithm, that's how most applications are run, but the cut and dry rps system that is highly based on your moves and is also why I "try" to run stuff that counters the common meta and the off meta but isn't easy and on occasion you run into someone who has an exact counter to everything you have and swaps perfectly as you do almost like.they know what you're running or an approximation.
Edit: I do think people are able to oveecome ths approximate counters to your team but with great difficulty and deliberation. Otherwise, there is no point trying.
I had no issues with ledgends tank until now as I'm playing in the 2300s and just playing 19/25 that had the ledgend badge yes I lost the vast majority of them
I'm convinced that there is a point of off meta match, because I just spice a little the team and then found teams really whatever. I don't know, maybe you go way too much into the spice and don't feel that
After encountering 5 leading dragonairs leading with dragonite in a row, same set, and 4 consecutive bastiodon leads leading with my froslass, yes, I believe in the algorythm. It doesn´t keep me from thinking "what could I´ve done better?" even if I get hard walled. Making it the closest is enough motivation, but being able to see how the algorithm plays with you ain´t fun, specially considering that the win rate will eventually even out anyway if the matchups were truelly random. It makes you feel like you can never know how good you are with respect to others, which is the point of competing. The "you shouldn´t compare yourself to others" loses meaning when you do it for fun. I respect what anyone thinks about this because reality doesn´t change based on mere opinions, but it´s something that frustrates me and many others, and is reasonable to think some might be bothered by other´s contrary opinion. Anyway, I play for fun or out of boredoom, not to get mad.
If the problem is to match legend players when people are at the 2500, people should be happy cuz they can practice with better players
It doesn’t affect me who is a rank 18, and I’m pretty sure it only is in the Elo ranks
I've tried the starting out late in the season thing on my wife's account last season. First two sets got very easy opponents and won all 10. All of a sudden at rank 3 I ran into 5 hard counters in a row against players that seemed to be playing with the same skill as a veteran/expert trainer. And my wife's and the opponent's rank was hidden.
That would be the MMR, trying to match your skill level to similarly able people in your rank
@mouse9831 true. But then the argument that it's based on your rank/elo falls apart. I'm not saying there is an evil algorithm. All I'm saying is more goes in to matchmaking than what the algorithm deniers claim.
@@texasfloodthe9370it doesn't entirely fall apart, even when you can't see it, the game is tracking your elo. It just restricts it to the 5 level range you're in as well. That's why on hitting rank 20 it shows your current elo, it's made up of all the battles that season.
@184Switch right but in the specific scenario I explained, there's no way I would have gained elo in the veteran/expert level within 2 sets.
@texasfloodthe9370 no, but you'd be playing against other players that win all their sets in the first few levels. Most likely those are players in a similar position to you.
As an example, if everyone starts at 1000, you win ten matches and your hidden elo is 1150. Casual players might stay around the 1000 range, while other veteran players are up to 1150 as well. In just a couple of sets, you can already be split from playing with beginners and get matched against stronger players who also started late.
This season was my first 17 win streak ever since no matter what team I used was hard counters
You and Poké AK should have a 1-on-1 discussion about the Algorithm problems in GBL. Both communities will def tune it for that 💯💯💯
I lose most of the fights that I participate in. I almost never lose fair fights. The people I lose to are not more skilled than me, and have unfavorable match ups - as an example, they will field a venusaur against my alolan sandslash and use sludge bomb against it instead of frenzy plant. Frenzy plant is only single resisted, while sludge bomb is double resisted. Frenzy plant can be used sooner and more often and to inflict considerably more damage. The people doing this don't understand basic type advantages, and further don't even take advantage of smooth brain opportunity. How do I lose to such opponents so often? Primarily because of selective stuttering, lag, disconnects, etc.. Whenever an opponent has the upper hand, the game runs smooth. The moment I reverse that, all of the sudden there is a connection issue and I lose my energy lead. And their counter has already charged and is launching their charged move but I didn't get to see that or what they even swapped out because the last few seconds my phone struggled to load anything and i'm lucky if I can use my shield to block. Some times the protect shield doesn't protect when I have clicked on it multiple times per second for all seconds I was able to do so, with all taps displaying on screen and no actual network issues like connection broken or speed throttling. Whenever I lead with a favorable match up, the enemy has swapped out and used multiple quick moves before I can get my mon to start on its first quick move. When I have an unfavorable lead match, I don't see the countdown and can't swap out until the enemy has already half knocked out my mon and is launching its charged move. If the match times out, I lose for what is usually the opponent's bad connection.
The algorithm is noticeable by set, very easy set followed by difficult set and subsequent rewards. So the algorithm does not affect ranking in my opinion, but there is an algorithm I am very sure.
QOTD: The "algorithm" used to really bother me and I'd blame it all the time. However it just occurred to me that I haven't even thought about it in quite some time. After learning more about team building and watching other players better than me play I've grown past worrying about the "algorithm".
But who knows it might still exist I wouldn't be surprised 😅
I think the algorithm is real and that it looks at your team, but I love what he said about not worrying about it. Whether it’s real or not, blaming the algorithm does not help you become a better player.
I also take pride in my counting and tapping!!! So many different skills I’ve acquired throughout the years of pvp!!!!!!!!🙌🙌🙌
Typical day: Hard counter lead, safe swap and get punished by another strong counter and the opponents 3rd Pokémon also shuts down my last Pokémon. Algorithm or not, it doesn't seem playable because by the time you swap your lead, you already know you lost. And yes ive played out many matches only to find there is no path to victory.
Regarding legends tanking, sometimes it's just difficult to stay in 3000s in certain metas *cough catch cup cough*
There has always been an algorithm. Surely the same people saying that there’s an algorithm to match your elo with another player then denied there’s an algorithm altogether. An algorithm doesn’t make you a shit or a legend player, skills does that. The algorithm is there to ensure that we all keep playing pogo as having it to easy or too hard will make a lot of people quit the game. It’s revenue for Niantic to make sure we are manipulated to keep playing the game and keep spending.
I run whatever i feel like, regardless of the meta. Sure, I lose a lot (ran triple Bug when Talonflame was everywhere) but that goes with the territory.
I play Orks in WH40K, so i am used to either winning easily or being completely destroyed based solely on RNG.
Only thing that throws me off is when I pick a completely random team
And get a mirror match 😅.
Shiny arbok was a funny one 😂
I mean. I got to 2900, then got multiple sets where I had lots of hard counter leads. I eventually tanked to 2600. But i don’t know if the algorithm is to blame. I think accessibility of Pokémon and stardust is the biggest issue for me. I basically only build budget Pokémon so I have to work with what I have. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn’t.
I do feel like you make some great points on this, i used to be an algorithm beliver myself but now whenever i get a 2-3 im like "aw shucks i potato played one battle and it costed me." If at first you dont succeed, try try again
The begining of this video sums up the modern day society sadly, great video thou
The most obvious and easiest solution to the “gatekeeping” or “tanking” problem is to stop taking ELO into account and only match legends with other legends, veterans with other veterans, etc. I’m not saying it’s a good solution, just the easiest. I know the first few people would be stuck playing the same people over and over until others made it to the next level. And I think the algorithm is obvious solely based on the leads. There are 18 types with most mons having about 3-5 weaknesses. Neutral leads should happen way more often, but in seemingly 90% of battles someone has to swap out immediately. Of course skilled players can overcome situations with good timing, catches, energy management and whatnot. That doesn’t change the fact that the game is TRYING to make you lose or TRYING to make you win.
Not an algorithm believer, but after watching videos, grinding good pvp mons and playing for 5-6 seasons I hit legend the last 2 and season high of 2993 last week. That being said try to get above 2600 ASAP because the metas calm down a lot.
I think there is an " algorithm " but I don't think it is like poke says it doesn't focus on certain accounts it just depends on teams and moves
That's why I only play gbl, for anything in relation with objectives
They should just implement the show 6 play 3 rule like the tournaments already and end the algo complaints easy fix
I think there probably is an algorithm and it definitely makes you put the extra time and effort in to gain elo. I usually see crazy non meta Pokemon when I try “fun” teams.
Yesterday i went 21-4 and gained 200 elo and made it to expert.. today i went 4-21 and literally 22 games were hard counters. a little sus.
it was also same team for all 50 games.
QOTD: I think this algorithm talk is just a slippery slope that can be used to arguing its existence on some things people can still believe while the true objective comes after, people say their specific account is targeted more by it because Niantic either doesn't like them or their patterns. 02:08 what you said there may be exactly what some people think, Niantic is after them or they would want you to change your paying habits, invest more to win. That is where this discussion eventually goes into because otherwise if everyone is dealing with the same thing it wouldn't matter.
They are still counting that money from diagla and palkia event
Qotd : algorithm = bullsh!t
Of course there’s a matchmaking algorithm, matchmaking couldn’t exist without some kind of algorithm to match players.
As for matching players based on team comp/win streak - with how bad niantic is at coding even basic features, do you really believe they can make a complex algorithm like that? The short answer is absolutely not.
Finally someone who respecfully tackes this theme QOTD: I think the same as you, I don't know if there's a so called "algorithm" I don't think so, but I don't have the tools to be certain if there's one. but since season 6 I've been always hittin legend, because I started getting better at the game, two seasons ago I even got in the top 50, If there's an "algorithm" it's the same for everyone, good and bad players, and if there's not an algorithm it's the same for every player again, good and bad. The only variable that exists in both cases is the player and if you keep complaining about the existance or non existance of an algorithm you're never gonna git gud.
Obviously it sucks to lose but that can't be helped and best thi g to do is learn from it. I had to do the same when I first started and occasionally waited until a week later after seeing content creators pit videos out on "strong" teams so I can at least play what I want and have fun in the process
the short answer is, matchmaking algorithm being real or not doesn't affect your gameplay strategies. all the fundamentals on how to play well and succeed still hold true.
Ahhh the algorithm. lol I believe in it but that’s the ELO system. Elo makes it so you hit a plateau
Almost like battling players the same skill level as you would be around a 50% win rate. Crazy lol
Just cant wait for catch cup to be OVER.
I haven't even played in like 10 days because of how bad the lag was last time I played. I was hoping they'd fixed it soon but you saying they're not even working on it means I'm probably not even going to play until they DO fix it tbf. I'll check out the new season when it starts I guess but if the issues aren't fixed I'm contemplating just giving up entirely until it IS fixed. Which is actually really lame because GBL is my favorite part of the game in all honesty. It's the only reason I even grind in the game at all. I mean I'm a shiny hunter and enjoy that too, but my main reason is GBL. 20:42
True speak bro. But there is something very sus about the matchmaking for sure.
I don't believe in that algorythm. It all comes down to statistics. I base this theory on my previous legend runs. All it takes to climb the ladder is a nice, consistent team that can face almost all the meta mons you can find in any league. It's way better to keep winning 3/2s instead of rare 4/1 or even 5/0 streaks in the long run.
Callum you are not a tanker, you are a Spice lord.
Yes this is what I wanted you to cover
First battle
My leading MON was abomasnow i encountered Medichm
2. I changed into clodshire
I encountered Sandslash(ice)
3.i changed to skeldrg
I encountered lanturn.😂😂😂😂😂😂
(Edit]After that
4.empoleon vs stunkfisk[mudshot×dischrg]
4.empolepn vs Talonflame😂😂😂😂
Man I know the thing exists okay but it is also true that one as a player needs to get better as time passes! I think the he problem really is how we are looking at this game… in a normal video game the enemy and/or bosses have a pattern that fallow learning it equals a win… GBL is different it is not a Computer code pattern that is at work but a individual that can make decisions on the spot!
But we as the Superior Species On This Rock am with Thousands Of Years Of History On Our Belts… We Still Like To Pount The Finger At Other Things For Our Short Comings! Lol
Humans… The Most Dangerous Animal In The Planet! lol
Don’t care about algorithm, just fix the damn lags, heck, Niantic can’t even get CMP right sometimes, still holding a grudge on how my Ninetales lost a freaking Umbreon on CMP
Niantic cant get this game to work properly for so many random things, heck I get frame drops during walking around. How is that same company going to manage to figure out some great algorithm for matchups? Yeah right. There like 840 mons, everything has a counter, you will just face a counter to whatever you run
Very well said. To me, it's logical to see that theres not an algorithm targeting each person 😂 but I digress.
Totally real. Don’t really care that it exists. I think the bigger concern is the need to expand the meta.
Seems like good players can overcome the obstacles and average or poor players cannot. If there were an algorithm that keeps you at 50% then the skilled players would not be able to reach legend every season. I am veteran and that is my skill level. I'm just here for the stardust.
The Algorithm......its real i get hit by it all da time
Its just like in Fifa, scripts are so fucking obvious but people pretend its not there. Legend player here, algo in this game sucks
I mean, there is obviously an algorithm as every single match maker ever created has, but I don't think there is one that pushes you to 50%. Although, sometimes this does become a little hard to still believe after not seeing a single jelli in LL catch cup for 50+ games and then as soon as I run one I face one in the mirror lead lol.
I don't care if there's an algorithm. I either have fun or don't play.
QOTD: as tempting as is it to believe there’s an algorithm (given the numerous times I’ve changed teams only to face hard counter leads immediately), I think that it’s unlikely Niantic could keep an algorithm like that running smoothly when there’s so many other issues in GBL.