Grounding your SOLAR PANELS? 🤔 You Better watch this First! *KNOW DC/Inverter POWER is not Utility
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2023
- Controllers, many inverters have - Neutral DC cases, don't earth ground. Divert risk, don't attract lightning, DO NOT connect DC to common/neutral bonded Utility Systems!. *Power Queen Mini 100ah LiFePO4 shrsl.com/46p4h 👉 *Support/Donate with KoFi - ko-fi.com/john4kiera OR bit.ly/2buyaCoffee all support helps. ✨ DO BETTER FOR LESS $$ all SWI-POWER Pure Sine INVERTERS Main Site! s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DFz... Any in DC/out AC Voltage! Very Fast Shipping!
OFF GRID KIT PARTS amzn.to/42cdjBX
**This channel may earn a commission from links offered at no cost to you.
🌪️GO WIND POWER - My Favorite REAL OUTPUT Small Wind turbine s.click.aliexpress.com/e/BztCS7I0 3/5&6 blade 12/24/48 volt *UPDATED ⬇️ New LOW WIND MODELS s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bE1zQnPw or LOW WIND 600watt is s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_99l1XF ,It makes wind power for almost everyone. Full GE store options s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AFDRgV
✨OTHER Type GE-500 watt High Output s.click.aliexpress.com/e/Igjt80g 3 or 5 blade, 12,24,48 volt
😍Full DIY WIND POWER PARTS LIST
SQL100 Rectifier Amico amzn.to/3SncnHL
3/8" terminals for Rectifiers amzn.to/3O55sR9 200A amzn.to/3xBHKE0 & DIY Turbine Slip Ring 30/90A s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DlN... OR amzn.to/3NPyAte
3 phase Drop Wire "turbine to rectifier" (2) 10/3 awg amzn.to/2FhbHy7 or 8/3 awg amzn.to/2XYUDEp Miscellaneous terminals for batteries amzn.to/2O9H0xy THERMAL FAN SWITCH 40C amzn.to/2C60UqV 3 pole double brake Switch amzn.to/2FrFOB5 Solar Connects amzn.to/2XJOa1M
Battery cable USA made amzn.to/3h6dsim 3 way 63 amp Cam Switches amzn.to/3NECTaO
*Diversion load resistors
12 volt 100 watt 2 to 6 ohm amzn.to/2ODJtTe
24 volt 100 watt 4 to 8 ohm amzn.to/2ovTkQo
48 volt 100 watt 6 to 12 ohm amzn.to/2ODr1tX
Wind Sun diversion Control OPC Module amzn.to/3zpO5E7
⬇️ 93% Survivalist Agree, see the ENERGY CATASTROPHE SURVIVAL OFF GRID SOLAR POWER SYSTEM -- 100 Watt Panels (12) shrsl.com/4dtxz , Affordable durable solar controllers pick (2)60A amzn.to/48FiexT ,Solar Connects amzn.to/2XJOa1M ,Battery cable USA made amzn.to/3h6dsim ,12/2 Above/Underground amzn.to/2XIJolg for safe DC wiring of lights and appliances.
SWI Power Inverters has proven 6+ year record of quality - 3000 watt s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DFq... Full Options s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DFz... for tool, high amp, fine electronics
My full OFF GRID PARTS LIST on one page, a.co/dnSm8JX
SUNGOLD POWER Inverters a.co/dnSm8JX full list, SunGold Inc direct $50 off bit.ly/3ETweGr
REAL SOLAR BATTERIES - Power Queen LiFePO4 premium amzn.to/3QfOY7T &
**Things used in other videos, amzn.to/2EaPFwx
⚡Green Energy DIY 800 watt REAL POWER Wind Generator s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AeJFRx
**LOW WIND 600watt Turbine s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_99l1XF makes wind power for everyone. Full wind power store s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AFDRgV
Real Mini Watt 300-S found here bit.ly/2oJBxFq
INE - Worlds Best Mig Welding Wire amzn.to/2DnaG51
Bernzomatic 8000 SUPER Torch amzn.to/2FvukN5
Option 3 for more 400W 550W 650W 800W 1000W Wind Turbine Generator 12-24V 3-6 Blades+Controller s.click.aliexpress.com/e/NNZ3Nj6
SMALL WIND TURBINE VIDEOS • Chinese wind turbine t...
and • Wind Turbine Brake & S...
*Joxн Даниел 2019 Production Idaho USA
*PrepperMountain USA ForcePowerInstalls
* RV or Motorhome Turbine, does good with solar, the GE-300 - s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bNi4Kctw Get the 12 volt in good wind area, or 24 volt in low wind area. The best is 300 watt model, its all you'll need for 5 to 20+ amps of night and storm day charging. (Using 24 volt turbines on a 12 volt system is safe, proper, and used in low wind areas, it works fine where a 12 volt will not go fast enough to charge batteries)
HYBRID WIND TURBINE GENERATOR CONTROLLER HOME POWER
*RELATED VIDEOS
Blade Balancing - • Micro Wind Turbine Bla...
Blade Options - • Wind Turbine Generator...
Voltage Choices & Solar - • Solar Wind Hydro 12 VD... & • Solar Power NOW - for ...
Braking and controller videos - • Wind Turbine Brake & S...
Sad truth about wind power - bit.ly/3klcgIN
Controllers from OPC® Olympic Power Controls® 2008
**This channel may earn a commission from links offered at no cost to you.
#PokyBuildsIt #offgridlife #earthgrounding - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
They sold you the panel, now they want $20 more each for grounding parts? Scam? Anyhow, Support Kieras plans at www.buymeacoffee.com/JOHNDANIEL or ko-fi.com/john4kiera & see the *JD DESIGNED AFFORDABLE SURVIVAL OFF GRID KIT list* amzn.to/42cdjBX
Hi John
Just wondering if you got that battery situation figured out yet, or did you change your mind ?
Thanks
Douglas Gordon
@@dagordon1150 Yes. I have to bring them up to post office to get them priced. May have to take them to Fed Ex, What ever is cheapest to you. Either way, they are yours. I had to spend a week off everything to deal with a close friends losses. But getting back on track.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Tat´s sad... my condolences
and all good !
The reason for "bonding" non current carrying metallic components to "ground" is to equalize the electrical potential to ground in the event of a short circuit inside the equipment. If you come in contact with those now energized components, you could die. This could save your life. As someone who has nearly died from an electrocution due to a missing bond to the ground, I am fanatic for proper grounding and bonding.
I do agree with you relating to rebar for a ground rod. I would refer you to your local electrical code to determine if rebar and what diameter is accepted in your locality.
Lightning will destroy almost anything. There is no grounding system that is truly effective against a direct lightning strike. Directing lightning away from your solar panels, as you described, is a valid point.
BTW: the metal on my panels/wind turbines and neutral conductors have been bonded to ground rods for over 20 years. There are no failures yet due to lightning, even though there has been lightning in the area multiple times. I just opened the box, so I'll probably get hit next week! 16:57
People who find voltage coming from their solar panel frames are the folks who worry me 😂. They need to ask why one isolated piece of aluminum (solar panel frames) makes its own power, but another one of identical build (aluminum window frame) don't. And funny thing is when I removed all the ground wires it disappeared.
People who put a array up far from their homes ground rod and don't connect the solar ground to their home also seem to have no transient voltage from their panel frames. Hmmm.
Did getting electrocuted hurt?
Obviously this guy doesn't live in Florida, If you don't ground it all equipment will be destroyed after lightning strike.
It is good to see you all up and about. I was thinking about the grounding issue during a Texas lightning storm yesterday morning. There are plenty of natural lightning rods growing around me. The spark gap thing sounds like it might be okay. I am not an expert on this so I will just watch and read and try to learn. Thank you.
The absolute best method to protect solar is a lightning rail, installing on metal roofs, or a nearby pole as described preferred circuit for such lightning.
you know i came to find out if i had to ground my x4 260w panels, but im watching and in ahhh the father daughter relationship, im a father of a 15 year old and she hardly talk to me:( i was watching and actually forgot about why i was here. God bless you both.
I never let Kiera get on junk filled Cell phones, social web sites or have friends who don't respect her future. 50 years ago we would have called that parenting, today they call that being a mean prick! A title I accept with glee!
Best line: Never held a screwdriver unless it was to stir orange juice and vodka 🤣
what if I have a metal converter that is screwed to the solar panel frame Johan, do I need grounding then, or is it also not necessary?
I mounted 12 solar panels on a shipping container. I'm grounding the rack system just because it is higher than the container but was thinking the same about putting something taller close by to attract the lighting. The container is situated between our house and a field. Thanks for the video!
Thanks John i need to know this very valuable information, saludos from MEXICO amigo
Love it you guys! So great! :) Thank you!
You two did a great job explaining this. Thank you
🥰
Good info.
Thanks!
Great video, I have an off grid solar system (32 panels) and I dont ground them either.
Thanks! That's for Kira. I want to see more of her.
Great vid. When I see a vid someone grounding there stuff or had there system fried, I send them to this vid. Hope you don’t mind. Bought the resistor pen from your list.
Thank you for the precious info.
I have an important question if you could help me with it.
I have an off-grid inverter that has a voltage of 60V between Neutral and Ground of the inverter AC output.
I am new in solar systems... I hear that this voltage should be 0V in order for RCD breakers to work properly.
After some research, some say that a way to solve this issue is to bridge ground and neutral on the electrical panel and ground them both.
Now I can see you say that inverters don't need to be grounded, but if there is a voltage between neutral and ground and you need protection from an RCD breaker, a way must be found...
I'm actually looking for a solution... What's your opinion regarding neutral/ground bridging on the inverter AC output?
Thankful for any kind of reply 👍
Dad you have many solar panels but your windmill is beautiful (very informative video)
I have never ground any solar panels, or inverters, but I always use rebar to ground electrical fences, though! : )
Very smart. If you ever share wiring with a grid designed system your looking for problems. I wired to use my power in dedicated lines, and never lost a solar panel in 16 years.
I learn so much from this channel lol
Hi John, thank you for this very informative video. I now know that I do not need to ground my solar panels, although may I also ask if I need to ground surge protectors on the output of my inverter and dc input from my solar panels. My surge protectors has ground terminals and until now I am not sure if I need to ground it. Thanks!
You can and should on a GFCI or shock protection circuit using a new and totally separate ground rod far from the existing ( 20 + feet) then add a 10 awg ground to any surge protector. There is no need to ground any DC voltage under 36 volts unless its to chassis ( RV-BOAT-AUTO) . You can add a ground to them using the system your using for AC voltage but you should use a large Schottky diode or non active circuit ground when doing so.
The only man on planet internet that speaks plainly. Thank you@@JOHNDANIEL1
Good afternoon John
Thanks for the informative video. You had mentioned a lighting rod design that I'm having trouble picturing. We'll locate in a lighting prone area and would like to protect ourselves. Could you please explain the rod in more detail?
Thanks again
Scott
You use 4 sections of 1-3/8 Fence Top rail that is sold in 21 foot -6" sections. Very Cheap. You can get used on classifieds like craigslist or facebook often. Set them in concrete in a triangle 3 points at 4 feet apart 18" deep in concrete. You taper them to a peak, using bolts or plating connect the tops as you place another one in the center with a added 10 foot 6" piece down low under the 4th one ( single piece home depot $15), to end up about 29 feet total tube height. Very stable. You place 1/2 rebar up the center of the 4th one, the middle tube till its 2 feet out the top of the center tube with additional 1/2 rebar welded or clamped with heavy cable clamps till your down to the bottom and into the ground of the center tube about 2+ foot deeper than its 12 to 18" concrete. I may do a drawing and place it on my web page www.mydcvolts.com that I have been forgetting to update for a few months LOL!
This 30+ feet is generally much much taller than any solar, much taller by 10+" feet than a 2 story home, and more static attractive than any trees. You can go a little higher with a little common sense addition or adaptation.
Mine cost about $130 to build, and is why I will not worry about my solar.
I have 10 on my lil bus i agree with you,its all metal roof protects them not a ground rod.
Glad I watched this, I'm about to mount my panels, the brackets are already installed on the roof of my shed. Now I know I don't have to use the little aluminum clips between the panels or a ground wire to a ground rod. What about the sub-panel that is supplied by the inverter with 240v, the circuits will need a ground to meet code ? So do I connect a ground wire from the main panel? There is no other connection to the grid system, yet. Or would I connect to a ground rod (rebar) ?
When you go to AC voltage and anything over 60 volts DC then proper breakers and grounding is required on the AC side if its to join a existing system, the DC side can be left ungrounded as long as you have proper breakers but if your doing the most evil thing on the planet *GRID TIE* connecting then you must pay all the massive fees, follow every rule, connect to all ground connections and expect your pay off in a few hundred years.
As for the panel frames, you can ground by choice unless forced to do so, using a ground rod on them separate from anything your house is using and over 25 feet from a existing ground. Myself, I choose NOT to attract lightning to my panels but instead a dedicated lightning post but if you can get good replacement insurance on the panels then it's not a horrible idea to attract lightning so you can get new ones ever so often from a insurance claim.
what if you create some higher antenas to drive any possible lightning to ground... but not on array .. , is it ok ?? 2 or 3 poles around connected to grounding in a fair distance of metal pv frames and even higher
I explain that in the video, to use 3 cheap 21 foot Fence Top Rail to make a triangular mast, then it support 3/4 rebar another 6 or 7 feet further up to become the preferred path.
I was more excited to see you had riding mowers than the rusty rebar
Kiera has collected 2 more for rebuilding/repairing. 4 total now. She has the Murray, very old old ladies rider with only 54 hours on it, to make a fruit orchard trailer/water hauler, but it has a failed governor in it, so she got a case and gasket kit and new governor on the way. The other Huskee is a forest model to abuse, bush hog plan to deal with the back of her property it has as she says a transmission drive pully bound up, so it will be fixed when she collects enough $$ for one. Yes, I call it her property since I can't live forever and parents should build futures for their kids, not shove them off in crazy people making schools.
I love my mowers!
@@ayoungandoldsoul wouldn’t mind to see videos of lawn mower repairs, 80% of lawn mowers out there are MTD, might get a lot of hits
A “detachable" 12” tall copper lightning rod (Strike termination device) attached to the center of the roof ridge should offer protection from lighting strikes. Although a lighting rod does not invite lightening strikes, if one does occur, the lightning will be directed to the path of least resistance from the rooftop copper clad lightening rod to the ground (Internationally known as Earthing). A lightening rod directs the lightning flow through a continuous, low-impedance, ground electrical conductor (GEC) #6 - #4 rated American Wire Gauge (AWG), stranded copper conductor protected in green nonconductive sheathing, bonded to a ground rod embedded in the earth. It is preferable to have a continuous GEC; however, if a splice is necessary, only irreversible compression type connectors listed as ground and bonding equipment should be used. The lighting rod(s) is tethered (bonded), by the grounding conductor, to a copper clad 8’ ground rod(s) which safely dissipates the electrical energy in to the ground. Since electricity always tries to return to its source, the ground rod is not intended for ground faults (Between two hot wires or a hot and a neutral) but to dissipate static electricity buildup or external electrical surges from lightning strikes to its source, the ground.
nice practical anyway since there is no fault detection device for dc to disconnect on s/c to frame ( If a squirrel bites through) No point in earthing for auto disconnect anyway .
Love the common sense education in this video.
Thank you for the video. After watching your video I did not ground my system. I am having problems with my EG4 inverters. flickering lights, incinsitent power. Tech support asked if I grounded my panels. I told them no. they told me I needed to. I decided to use some leftover pv wire I had and ground my panels to satify that being the issue or not. While installing the grougning I could hear a electrich buzz every time i touched my pannels, I even got a light shock at one point. I pulled out my multimeter and had 140VAC and 1amp on the panel racking and frames. Turns out many all in one inverters do not isolate their PV inputt from AC output and it leaks into the pv lines and gets into the racking somehow? Once grounded the cuurent is no longer in the panles. just wonding your thoughts on this? would appriciate the input. also grounging the array did not solve any of the issues i was having with flickering and what not. thanks
What do you suppose caused totally isolated aluminum frames to be electrified? It's like saying I installed a inverter and solar into my Dodge van, now my Chevy pick up parked near it shocks me every time I touch it. Literally, the same way of thinking!
The voltage you get when touching a ground wire to a panel is from the existing ground wire "supplied common ( bonded circuits)" loop being made, It happens when your panels are mounted on metal racking on metal frames or metal roofs. This does not ever happen to any electrically floating un grounded panels mounted on wood!
Wonder why right! Induced current is looking for a conductor when your playing with it, and find it in reverse by a ground that's connected to a homes existing system of wiring which has a bonded Common(neutral)/Ground design. Technically, your making a jumper, and it makes many things behave odd.
People seem to think a inverters output is identical to a power plants system, it is not. It is a imperfect clone not designed to rely on earth ground for balance. It's not a identical product.
Yet, using a All-In-One inverter charger is not the problem that will make 100% non-electrified aluminum become current carrying items, connecting it to something upstream is what does that.
See how it all behaves when you DO NOT connect and share your inverter to the homes metal, ground, or bonded utility based and still connected to utility, system!
@@JOHNDANIEL1 thank you for the reply I appricieat your input. My panels are mounded on a wood frame i made 2x6 with big 6x6 post. then i put unistrut on top of that. I am off grid and do not have any utility power. when I ran my AC out from the invertter to my home panel i did run a line, neutral, and ground and have my main home circuit breaker ground neutral bonded. Would you still think i should remove the ground from my inverter to my main panel with this type of set up?
@@chasegj Yes, Just do a experiment. Remove the ground line on the inverter or run 2 wire for 120 volt, 3 wire for 240 volt and watch how the whole thing changes.
Consider how you would wire the same system into a old school bus/RV, Grounding is to chassis, not to anything else. NO ground rod, no ground strap related to AC voltage on the panels, but some do a DC ground to chassis due to static from 70 mph air flowing over panels. And no one gets electrocuted, it is safe there, so its same for a home system. RV's do not bond ground and neutral and if they do they tell you to separate it if installing a inverter. The ground on them is often only metal BOX to chassis, not a shared Neutral bar to Chassis.
I prove this all by disconnecting the ground, plugging into a inverter, and then measuring the volts from the ground wire to the ground post on the inverter and getting wild voltage on it anytime it is fed into a bonded power box. This feedback sometime affects your DC negative to your panels.
Hello Mr. Daniel, can you do a video on this...
I'm installing a solar power system in my barn. I connected the inverter to a breaker box for two circuits (120 and 240 volt). This solar breaker box is not connected to the barn grid power subpanel.
How do I ground the solar power breaker box? The inverter has a grounding lug, the PV combiner box has a grounding bar in it also. Are the three components mentioned (solar breaker box, PV combiner box, inverter) all grounded together and connected to an earth grounding electrode?
I have decided not to ground the 180 watt panels due to the lightning issue. Thanks for your videos!
Using a multi meter, with everything up and operating go and test from those ground lugs to the Positive & Negative on your DC system/Battery +/-. See if you get any circuit power, such as 10+ Volts DC in your results. If you do not, its only chassis grounding and you can using a 10 awg wire connect those items together and earth ground them for a simple static controlling ground. Static can gather in a chassis for a DC system ( touch the outside of your car body get a little ZAP when weather and atmospheric is right ) That only requires 3 feet of stripped copper coiled up in a 18" to 24" deep hole in the ground near your system.
As for safety on your solar frames or any roof mounted metals, go at least 50 feet and place a basic lightning rod 10+ feet higher than your solar is and you will cover those needs too.
I have a 35 foot rv with 2400 watts of solar in 4 strings 130 volts .
Should I bond solar panels inverter combiner box and battery breaker box to chassis frame HELP!
NO! Not if it ends up on same ground that the utility uses without putting in a inline circuit breaker safety. I have seen back feed destroy many inverters in RV's when they plug in and get chassis feedback. Use this, amzn.to/3ODDsDr for 30 amp, or this amzn.to/3DW7A87 for 50 amp then yes you can use the chassis ground, but I also install a 100 amp diode amzn.to/3DZmDOq to ground so NO back flow. When a AC unit kicks on, a high inductive load happens, and your on utility plug in, the common can get high loaded, it's spike can feed to ground, the chassis, and POOF your inverter or controllers eat it! Diode I use is so a fault in your system passes through, but a fault in something else does not. You take all solar, Inverter, Controller chassis with 10 awg wire to a buss bar, isolated, from it the Diode to frame.
Is there a video on the lightning rod made from fence top rail?
No, but I probably should do one. It's smarter to divert a possible lightning strike instead of attempting to manage one and that should be goal 1 for everyone.
I have a Victron charger controller and a solar charger that all connect together with batteries. If I have the building AC system connected to the inverter and that is connected to the ground of the pole, ... what happens to the inverter three wires if shore power cuts off? Is there an issue with any sort of ground loop? The 12V DC is connected and inverted to AC right?
When you connect a inverter, to a existing ground of a building or house then your sharing that ground. If a electrical condition exist that relies on that ground you can end up with a damaged inverter. They place this option on inverters to pass a improper UL and NEC rating. It is ok to do this with generators with a AVR in them, not ever to be done with brushless generators for the same reason. I only run on a GFCI from the inverter, then only use 2 wire on all shared circuits. Many inverters are different, but almost all will not run safe, especially high frequency models, sharing a ground with existing wiring. The best outcome is NOT to share house wiring, install new dedicated unless your buying a pricy quasi grid tie style inverter but using them means a huge cut in ability when grid fails.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Exactly!!! The only reason a UPS can do that; even though it's not really the same as having an inverter tied directly to the main breaker box, is because it has a lot of power conditioning circuitry and is specifically designed to act as a filter/conditioner for the grounded power going into it and to also automatically switch to backup battery power if the main power going into it is lost or over voltage or under voltage. I don't actually use inverters in my solar setups, I use all industrial grade high power with high power factor rack mounted APC UPS units that I have custom programmed for working as both UPS and standalone inverter systems.
Knurlgnar24 has a LOT of good information regarding modifying and reprogramming UPS backups to use as standalone and backup systems here on youtube.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Thank you. Of course. Victron has me ground the inverter to a rod outside the shed it is in too. Then when ac shore goes out it internally connects the ground and neutral. … as the batteries, solar controller and batteries are all connected to feed the shed’s ac wiring… the built in transfer switch etc helps.
@@johnbrizendine7716 These replies sure helped me understand more clearly. They also have me connect the negative battery cable to the ground rod by the shed. I don’t have the panel frames connected to ground though they are currently (pun intended) close to it.
Some inverter companies even say NOT to ground either leg of the DC output. Panels on a metal rack become grounded via the frame/structure of the rack. It may almost impossible to keep the metal frames isolated.
Hi when you run the inverter cables into the distribution box in a camper what do you do with the earth wire if you don't have to earth it.. Does the system and breakers just run off live and nuetral.. Maybe a video on inverter installation in a camper.. I cannot find any information on this. I have a camper and off grid container with inverters. The off grid have earth rods from the inverter should I disconnect these tia..
Install a 100 amp Schottky Diode amzn.to/45K5eG1 inline, flow forward to chassis from inverter ground, to the steel chassis of the RV. Attach your ground terminals to it.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 same situation here, but want to clarify: I have a 4200watt array 100’ from my camper. Not bonded/ grounded. I have an all in one eg4 inverter and lithium battery rack system in the camper. Camper not grounded. Do I need to install this diode as additional protection from lightning beyond the fuses and circuit breakers? I also am connected to starlink which is run up a tree near the camper. What, if anything, can I do to protect the camper from a hit to the starlink? Thanks!
@@Blackbird-zo1su Your starlink does not have sufficient cable to carry much from a lightning strike and is very limited to attracting any. You can take the cables from it and loop them into the ground a little to default such action to earth. As for the diode to ground, it is for isolating residential ground from off grid components. Your fine with fuses at the panel and breakers at the camper for safety.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 thank you SO much!! I have been trying to hunt down the right info for quite a while. As you said- lots of conflicting info, but yours makes the most sense. I have not wanted to create a bigger problem while trying to protect myself and all of the expensive equipment. Thanks again!
Some systems the inverters backfeed ac. Im dealing with this currently on an eg4 off grid system. 140v ac from panel frame to ground. Its in a steel roof so the entire roof is hot. Roof needs grounded for safety
*Roof needs grounded for safety* ( missing WHY you have power into your roof and panel frames!!!!!! )
Wanna stop that connection? Remove the inverter from the earth ground, you stop wild AC from being shared in a DC system that is connected to earth in the same location. Treat a inverter and solar controllers *As NOT BEING A UTILITY COMPANIES 3600 rpm generating earth circuit conducive power system,* and Voila! everything fixed!
Good information John, im sure glad you posted a new video because i was really worried that something might have happened to prevent it, like you getting sick or something going wrong at your place ! I told you that I always look forward to seeing your next video... 😊 Anyhow thanks for the explanation about not grounding solar ! I remember you had another video explaining the same thing awhile back but i guess people don't pay attention like they should..glad to see you're still going strong ..... Best wishes to you and family !
Doug...
There are people who will connect their solar panel frames to ground, some even their DC battery negative. They have all been lied to by sellers of materials related to the bad misinformed act.
yup, we're ok, thanks for thinking of us.
AFAIK, there are 2 different reasons for grounding: (a) for functionality reasons (AC transformer, electrical wire fence, ...) and (b) for safety.
With (a) you connect one of the wires to the ground which acts as an extra conductor, and with (b) you connect metal frame parts to an earthing rod or loop.
With (b) in place, you prevent people from being shocked when touching the metal frame if a damaged DC or AC cable also touches that frame. Without grounding, the electricity goes from the defective cable via the frame through your body to the ground, which can be deadly.
With the frame grounded, the pathway of least resistance is via the ground wire to the ground, so when you touch the frame then, almost no or very little current will go through your body. As well as the situation that the Ground Fault Current Interuptor can detect the dangerous situation and disconnect the electricity, indicating there is a dangerous situation that should be corrected. Or in case of solar panels, the inverter detects that there is an insulation fault that should be looked in to.
PV systems are being grounded for protection of your loved ones, and other people.
I'm no expert, only an apprentice, the experts can correct or agree with me.
Big no shitter on getting hit with 500volts dc when the squirrel nested under a panel and shorted it to my array. Grounding is important for fatal voltage levels. Plus it hurts really bad!
Aluminum panels oxidize creating an oxidize layer and will require over 1000 voltage before that current can jump to your body.
I believe electricity goes in a circuit back to source, so it won't go to the ground for no reason
You must be "educated", which is a no-no, apparently...
You're right except that the DC circuit from your panels is an isolated circuit. There is no potential to earth ground unless you create it by bonding the return (-) to ground first. Shorting the positive wire to the frame will do nothing unless the positive and negative both are shorted. Then something is going to blow, hopefully fuses that you've installed on your panels instead of your panels.
Equipment grounding is absolutely best practice where that potential exists and does include most all AC circuits and non-isolated DC circuits.
So what about when u use a Bluetti device ac180 around 1800 watt unit. It has a grounding connection on it. Don't do it?
Grounding terminal on them don't usually connect in a bonded way so if you want to YES, will it do anything, very unlikely but it's a great confidence builder!
What about my 400ah battery bank in my truck..does it need to be grounded to my truck frame?
Connected as a DC circuit. Not grounded. Unless your planning on leaving your truck in one spot.
Thanks John 😊
You are so correct no smart people and offices they just make rules and laws being annoying dear call DC voltage work if you ground easy voltage, you make a tremendous resistance to it running a dizzy voltage get you more trouble people do not realize and it is true what you say if you have solar panels, 6 inches above your roof and the grounding are you doing is building a serious lightning rod. Have a good day. Enjoy yourself and keep making videos.
I'm about to install a 360w solar panel backup system into my cabin which is on the grid. I bought a SunGoldPower 12v inverter/charger that will be fed from a regular household 15 amp circuit/outlet. The batteries are charged by the inverter/charger when the grid is up, but by the solar panels when the grid is down. The inverter/charger has a ground to the 200amp service panel through regular 14 awg house wiring. But it also has another grounding lug off its metal case. I was contemplating using that lug to ground my solar panels, but found your video as I do research on grounding. I think I'll do some more research, but this video has me re-thinking what I thought before.
Just realize the design of the power grid, with the earth involved, power created by rotating mass is not in any way the same as the generation/conversion of power from DC current. The "HAIR ON FIRE" panic stricken fear mongers who demand you ground connect all your DC circuits would fire you in 1 second if you drove a ground rod through the floor of their pick up to "ground it" since it has a AC alternator and DC circuits.
Solar for safety is fused. All DC should be fused. But be very careful back flowing your inverter through some residential wiring since it can be bonded common with neutral (ground direct) and may fry your inverters or introduce stray voltage in your existing ground circuits.
Thank you for the quick reply. I do know that the main panel they just installed is bonded common to neutral at the outside box. The power is then distributed inside to a 200amp service panel which (of course) is not bonded ground to neutral. It's one of those circuits that feeds my living room outlet where the SunGoldPower inverter/charger will be plugged in. Keep up the good work, it's appreciated by us still "in school". @@JOHNDANIEL1
@@avlisk When we install the common 240 volt 6000 watt Sun Gold into a space like your doing, we use this transfer switch amzn.to/3T9ItYr system. If you use a smaller 120 volt inverter with nothing over 3000 watt you can use this single sided model amzn.to/3GrP7ld
That’s great but the code makes you ground the rails that the solar panel frame is attached too .
Yes, and we ordered a few million feet of wire to stay in code on our RV as we haul it.
HELP! We had a solar system installed in our cabin. The company we bought from says we need it grounded and our electrician says we don’t unless it’s grid tied (it’s not) The instructions say to ground it at the inverter, another electrician told me to ground the breaker box AND the panels.
I know nothing about this other than what I’ve learned in the last week or so and I still have no clue.
I'd say ground the breaker panel that is your "main" with a grounding rod to earth or to a metal structure, ground from inverter to the main. Bond the neutral and ground at the main. Not necessarily professional advice from an off-grid enthusiast. All other AC circuits after that get grounded back to your main.
But does it hurt to ground the aluminum frame of the solar panels? It won't protect from lightning damage, indeed will make the panels a "lightning rod", but will protect personnel from any potential buildup, either static or for feedback thru the cells from the inverter. Obviously, you can't ground panel frames on an RV, but doesn't mean a home installation isn't better if frames are grounded.
Ground if you feel its for you. But just know that about 99% of those who say they have voltage in their panel frames got it from sharing a single homes ground rod with the common neutral/structural ground bonded 120/240 utility panels, inverters ground lug, solar controllers ground lug and solar panels. So if you do ground them, DO NOT connect that circuit to the home or inverters system, ground them separately at least 30 feet away from any existing ground rod. They do collect atmospheric static in rare conditions but so does you car pop you with a static jolt from time to time.
If you are looking for a truly awesome lightning repelling/diverting system, look up Nikola Tesla's lightning rod/repeller. It looks almost like an umbrella, but is designed to perform very similar to how you describe setting up the solar panels on metal roofing. Really interesting stuff.
Another thing that most people fail to grasp is that when lightning strikes the ground, the ground itself becomes energized and having something grounded to the spot that is energized can cause something that is sometimes known as "ground source lightning" and can also cause those grounded objects to become energized and be much MUCH more dangerous than an ungrounded metal object.
The main reason I am so involved with grounding/ground isolating stuff is my expensive radio equipment requires a good ground for proper signal propagation, but improper grounding can cause ground loops and lightning and even electric discharge damage by those same electromagnetic waves being transmitted and received. I learned a long time ago that there is a LOT of bad information out there regarding grounding.
Another thing people don't realize is that electricity does not just take the path of less resistance, it is actually really complex. See Ohm's law to truly understand how electrical energy will take all paths to ground and divide equally along those paths according to the resistance and then faraday's laws to see how adding inductance and capacitance can have a major impact on it.
The simple subject of grounding is so insanely complex that most electricians and electrical engineers don't fully understand it, there is just so much nuance that goes into it.
I base my study and results on 2 things, Sir Benny Franklin and Faraday's laws. Faraday using a all copper roof on a cabin next to a all wood shingle roof was trying to prove how copper was dangerous, He was a pissy man. He learned the opposite. He learned that electrochemistry was not that simple, the lightning on the project in north France on the coast, right in the marsh, a storm hot spot, it struck the carbon loaded chimney of the wooden house 3 times. Never touched the copper house or its chimney right next to it. Conclusion by Vander Hoff the resident, the copper make the house protected. Private notes to his parish.
In reality it made the load of the ground sourcing much more spread out. In reality, lightning DID strike both. But the concentration of energy diffusing outward was spread out on the all copper, leaving no real damage. But the energy was so focused on the wood framed houses chimney it blew the top off it and the cast iron frame from Ingles ship wrights, which both homes had, down below warped.
Little is known of his off Britain experiments done by fellows, but his findings on electrolysis caused by as he put it, the silent energy, showed how the later designs of the Faraday cage came about.
Note to be accurate, I am prejudiced toward his Savant Qualities, I am kin to Sarah Barnard, she was married to Michael Faraday, her grand father is direct blood line from my Germanic/Lithuanian roots.
All cars are grounded, because all car tyres include small iron particles (iron "dust"). So all tyres are conductive. Not 100% rubber.
so true .why dc
$$$$. Nothing explains why you would have to ground the frames on a solar panel, but not a Aluminum Skylight! If you let the panel float electrically like you do the skylight you get no path to ground to attract lightning. In fact, Pella Windows tells its builders this exact fact.
I think you make a good argument regarding attracting lightning to a different ground source other than through your modules and houses grounding system. I.e. erecting a large lightning rod or grounding your houses via an existing perimeter fence as these would make for a safer path to discharge a lighting bolt around a houses property.
With that said, for many homes in the U.S. these methods of handling lightning surges just are not available. Some houses do not have an existing fence they can turn into a lightning attractor/arrestor and building a large lightning rod taller than the house is just not feasible as there often isn’t any yard space.
Although at times it seems the NEC is pedaling new codes to sell additional electrical components and installation, I do not think at its core that it is its purpose. ESPECIALLY with regard to grounding codes the purpose is to continue to make residential electrical circuits safer. In fact, building a large lighting rod or creating a grounding fence as you have suggested would In the end be more expensive to the homeowner(for most houses) than bonding solar modules together as part of a homes lighting protection.
You are correct in saying a circuit does not need a ground to operate, the modules will produce power without a ground. However, the grounding conductor is installed for use in worst case scenarios such as a lightning surge BUT ALSO for shorts within a circuit or static electricity build up. These problems are all best solved via a ground. To divert unwanted current quickly rather than exist as unwanted voltage running across the module’s frames.
You mention that vehicles and tractors are not grounded to earth. Of course they are not, having a constant connection to earth in all motor vehicles across the country is not feasible. However if it was I bet it would be required. Now consider trucks that move hazardous materials, static buildup within the truck due to normal operation can ignite flammable materials and this has been known for many years. Sometimes these trucks DO have a connection to earth via a chain dragged along the ground to dissipate the voltage differential.
Perhaps for off grid systems or systems in dispersed residential settings a better grounding system should be in place than using the house ands its infrastructure(solar modules) to handle lightning surges. But in most cases, congested neighborhoods would be better off with each house able to handle a surge independently. The modules on the roof could be damaged by lightning and if no path to earth is created the surge could burn up the wiring of the solar system causing a fire. The goal is NOT to attract lightning(even if this is an unwanted byproduct). Lightning is an unpredictable energy source and it is best for a house to just be as prepared as it can be.
must need grounding on solar system,, using spd for protect for lightning strike..
You connect your panels to a ground cable. It's OK, I hope anyone who buys the lie to ground them does so. 70% of solar installs are grounded, however I repair arrays all the time with grounded panels due to electrolysis and stray voltage, I never get calls for ungrounded. For us, we choose not to give Lightning a shorter happy attracting path direct to our panels/cables/controllers/inverters that a ground wire creates when the easiest most approved Department of Forestry, Marine, Military, & World method is a basic Lightning Diversion collector.
Just tell them they need to go ground their cell phone. That should ring a bell.
That will make the Snowflakes SNAP!
I saw earlier that your discussion board said that LiTime's 12V 100Ah mini battery would be evaluated? Why haven't we sent the video yet? I want to buy it, but I want to see your comments on this product!
Still doing a long term 2 month test on them. They have Pouch Cells in them, Rumor has it, Pouch Cells like those in Cell Phones deteriorate faster no matter the chemistry in them. ( samsung engineers warning 2020 on LiFePO4 Pouch/leaf Cell use) Something to do with the effect of stretch during folding of the materials inside. So I got them, the company wants me NOW NOW NOW to show them since what I paid was less than list price and upon agreement I would do a video on them, but I will not just do a video saying WOW THESE ROCK if they may SUCK! *I will leave the Show and Tell videos for sales up to Professional Promoters with fancy cars, deep pockets and high paid channels who tongue swab the rears of Google.
Failing health and resulting failing finances are forcing me into full time RV boondocking, and of course everything will be DIY. I will be building batteries using EVE LF280K cells, covering the roof of the trailer in solar panels in parallel to diminish shading issues, and possibly next year building a wind turbine to add to the trailer. My college electronics is 46 years rusty, so I'm wondering if you are able to some mentoring? My current thoughts are to build 4, 12 volt batteries in parallel (total 1120 amphours)., feeding a busbar, feeding a 4000 watt inverter. In case the trailer is in partial shade, I'm planning some portable panels as well. To top up the LIFePO4 batteries while driving it sounds like I'll need a DC to DC charger. It seems I may need multiple solar/wind controllers. I realize those are a lot of topics, but any thoughts you can throw my way would be appreciated. Thanks for reading my lengthy chat.
I would if you want to save $50 easy, go to Sun Gold right now, they are best thing going shrsl.com/42bmr
If you get 18 panels, you can run 6 at a time on 3 of the HQST 40 amp controllers ( amzn.to/41wEohx ) running them 2x2x2 like a 24 volt set up, 44 volt, that will make your outcome perfect for your 12 volt RV system on those controllers. I say to use the HAT metal for mounting them, but work with what you have. The best battery is a pair of the TIME USB 220 shrsl.com/42bna so when you can afford it you can add one more, or end up with 4 total which will make your plans complete. But 2 will run a 3200 watt SWI power inverter to run a good sized AC unit, you would need 3 or 4 of them to run a AC unit, Microwave, TV, Refrigerator and more on a pair of inverters or a 4000 watt Sun Gold. I Prefer the Sungold 4k for RV use.
I am getting 35 volts on my solar panel frames but only when my inverter is connected. How is that possible and how do i correct it? My 1st thought was to ground it.
Have you grounded your inverter or connected its output to the house/structures wiring? If so, your common in the inverter and the eventual path made will lead to ground and you will get that kind of effect.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 the inverter is grounded and it's not connected to any house wiring. I did some investigating and found I was getting 140 volts from an inductive effect from unused wires packed in the conduit so I'm looking in to that. Still can't beleave I got a shock from a completely unconnected at both ends ground wire.
@@Ranch321 People for some reason ground their inverters to Earth ground that is on or near a system used for Utility power. Even being close to those systems can cause voltage leakage. The inverters output is wild AC, common is a created format, not a result or earthing like a utility has to do. So you have a active phase from the inverter getting into the ground or common, or even earthing, I prove this to so many people it's not even funny but they insist some genius says they have to do it. In reality, a inverter or generator is a stand alone power creation and has to be 100% treated as one. NO sharing of wiring without 100% dedicated transfer equipment in the link.
@@Ranch321 If you have 1 single volt with enough non atmospheric amperage to shock you on your solar panel frames, you caused it to exist, it simply can not exist due to the fact the frame is metal in any way. The aluminum frame is NOT in the circuit of your DC voltage, the earth or your inverter without you making a connection to it. It is 100% isolated, just like your car, fence, lawn mower is until you introduce a circuit into it from a source.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 so after grounding the unused wires in the conduit the voltage seems to have all but disappeared so I think it was feed back from an inductive load generated by the proximity of the unconnected wires in the conduit. Also the grounding rods im using are 600 + feet from the utility grounding.
I just had a panel get a burnt spot on the back and the manufacturer is telling me it’s from not grounding the panel array! Although they said it COULD be from a defective panel. So I’m going with defective panel!
Burned on the back through the EVA layer is defective cell buss tabbing.
According to EG4, they recommend a ground rod on the panels because their inverters put out an AC voltage on the PV lines. Seems sketch but perhaps something to consider.
According to metallurgy, science, math and physics they are lying! Placing a ground rod on your panels, that are as electrically isolated as your car windshield, means their product is dangerous and they are looking for YOU to be to blame for damage or lack of safety of their product for "not doing it exactly right" no matter how you follow their plan because once you involve ( as a insurer will tell you ) Mother Nature, the earth, then the company is immune to claims.
Probably that's just "noise" or EMI.
Yeah I never quite liked their response on that one. I know enough to be dangerous and to know what they said doesn't fully add up :p
A grounding rod at the panels, or from the panels back to the main ground off the main service panel? The later is correct. You should never have the panels grounded separately from the main service panel grounding rod(s).
@@ssoffshore5111 yeah I completely agree. I ended up grounding off of an outlet I had nearby that was connected to the main service and that took care of my problem.
Ahem.. NOT creating... COMPLETING a circuit. Thanx for making this point about grounding. Remember back in the 60's and 70's when there was a grounding strap underneath the cars..? hehe.. they were surely smoking funny things.
Yes I remember them! Some even used short lengths of chain!
Their purpose was to prevent static build up ...... resistance through tarmac is Not good ;o) ..... which is what allows you to build up the static in the first place!
Grid tied solar should always be grounded, your inverter can fail and modern inverters couple to the grid transformerless.
Lightning is not an issue, static buildup on the panels is.
Static voltage can build up on the frames and arc to the DC circuit.
Yeah, we got that same static problem with our van, and aluminum house windows. Working on it.
Good point. Their knowledge of grounding is very limited.
I read in a forum that you are about to review the LiTime 12V 100Ah mini battery. Is it true?
Yes, but we have had to make a order for 2 AWG cable to wire them up safe and proper and the supplier ( ACDC Delco) after 3+ weeks of trying cancelled the order as out of stock, then the next supplier WINDY NATION we ordered from said 5 days, and latest email monday said it is on back order but arriving in week.
So I may have to pull cable from another source to show how nice these batteries are as a perfect set for all RV made to be used. Many have bought them from my forum link and are very happy with them and I am tired of waiting on the right wire to use on them to make a video showing why they are great. However, people must use the right wire for these to get them to result in optimum performance and safety, a real quandary of issues to deal with material shortages. I will also viewers to buy their cables at a walmart store, easier I just learned to get pre-made cables. I only wished the battery companies would sell cables for their batteries from their websites LOL! The LiTime battery is a Ampertime product, You get them here shrsl.com/42bde it is superior in every way from the ones on Aliexpress and Ebay. They have real efforts in design.
If you buy these batteries you will be very happy with them, Pouch Cell design, Very robust power. But if you do not use 2 Awg Gauge or at the least 3 Awg Essex Welding Cable on them you can as any battery damage them and you will not be able to get warranty for foolish wiring mistakes.
I thought it was code to have to have a power source earth grounded with a solid single wire
Earth grounds prevent the static buildup that causes lightning in the first place. For most panels, the frame is for bonding to that earth ground to prevent electrical charge buildup, it has nothing to do with the DC system voltage potential.
We will work on that when installing the 30 frameless panels this spring. However, when you do not ground your solar panels you get the same result as you do for not grounding your aluminum framed house windows. Static does not build up in non ferrous materials ( aluminum ) at the same rate as iron/steel, not even close.
In low voltage dc it doesn’t make sense to ground it, however if you are running a 500v series and a positive wire gets a rodent in it and contacts it to the array you could be in for a bad day
Any voltage over 36 VDC I recommend inline fuses at the panels. Lower than 36 I install in line before the controllers.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 I’ve had 450 volt string go live to my array from squirrel damage. Flat knocked my dink in the dirt, grounded would have been better for me
Still do not ground it, Fuse it. Order you some burn safe fuse links, Add them in.
Contact Josh with Windy Nation, he will explain why to fuse what you have. And the best thing for dealing with squirrels chewing on your wiring is spraying risky areas with rustoleum underbody rubberized coating amzn.to/3HXWKRw . Place some cardboard under the wiring to protect back drop, and spray coat it with 2 coats. It retards sun damage, and it makes varmits vomit! Will last 10+ years.
Clearing a fault is not in the limited vocabulary of this discussion.
Cover your solar panels with red or yellow clear film and it will increase the output. You have changed the light spectrum your panels receive.
If its that easy.. Manufactures would already be doing that.
lol oh mate i live in Australia lol
Jonney 2chins but if I add 2 grounds one for red wire and 1 for black I will be doubling my safety 😂😂😂😂😂
Here's a question, the terminal block on most inverters has a red, a yellow, and a black wire. And on alot of them you get 120v between red and black, BUT.. you also get 60v between red and yellow, AND.. 60v between yellow and black!
So do you connect the the standard black, bare, and white Romex wire to it and hope it doesn't energize the metal housing of your boxes and appliances? Or do you leave the ground disconnected and hope it doesn't energize anything it shouldn't? I haven't been able to find much information on the subject.
Inverters for US market most all have markings of B or L for line ( black on romex ) W or C ( white on romex ) and a ground G or E for earth on them ( bare wire on romex.) Using a ohm meter you can check inverter chassis to find ground on those terminals if the markings are screwy China based done. Otherwise the inverter is not a utility level voltage, its a simulation so you will get voltage, trace responding voltage, a ghost basically, like in your test but not always actual output. Not sending out amps.
As for wire color, I would not base your safety on it. Consider all hot.
But if you really want a simple solution, you just power it off, remove battery, power switch cycle it to drain any power inside, then do a test on the outlets ( continuity testing ) them match and mark the proper ones. On the outlets you will have ( wide blade is common white wire, narrow is hot line black wire and ground if connected inside in the outlet is the ground post.)
0:23: The US uses a TN-C-S grounding arrangement for the low-voltage (secondary) distribution system. The neutral wire between the secondary winding of the transformer and each house’s service disconnect is considered a PEN conductor, it combines the neutral and ground wires into one. After the service disconnect, it splits into a separate neutral wire and ground wire. However, I disagree with the statement said @ 0:25 that the transformer ground wire is part of the circuit. It’s not. It does carry current, since the neutral wire is multi-point grounded by grounding it once at the transformer and also at each house once. But it’s not supposed to be used as the *main* return path for current, neither for normal conditions nor for line-to-case faults. It’s not a SWER (single-wire earth-return) system.
What your referring to is Common / Neutral and ground Bonding. A process is to increase the speed and safety of the circuit breakers. By doing so you get the line ( hot ) less able to default the energy into a identical size conductor ( neutral/common). Just do what 3 teens in Dallas did, Walk up to a few dozen poles and chop the "non circuit" ground wire. See how many smart meters responded back to the utility with shut down request. Then it was over 200 of them. It is a part of the engineered design to promote the center taps balance and return. When we installed over 130 massive wind turbines in the Texas Panhandle, western Nebraska, and most of southern Idaho from 2005 to 2008 the swash control switch on the transformers readings came solely from the ground cables. Not the HVT or the TRC.
A simple test used in the past was to connect the hot line to a ground directly to check the amp draw before circuit interruption. If Ground was not or never a circuit, it would do nothing.
Your right, grounding is not part of a DC circuit. But I think you missed a point: earth ground on DC circuits serves a slightly different purpose. It's for your SAFETY. It provides the shortest path for DC current to flow in case of an unbalanced leak (positive/negative only leak, where there is little to no ISC until touched by something that completes the circuit). Without the earth ground, if the circuit has a leak, the current will flow through anything touching the ground, INCLUDING YOU. So yeah, in low voltage it's almost useless, but on an array of 10+ 600W PV panels where the circuit has 400V+, it's a life saver....
I think I've said here and everywhere that exceeding 60vdc should have a fault system. That includes neon alert bulbs from frame to independent ground to active grounding but not residential shared.
It may be pointed out the following, for US-users:
1. Two-wire DC systems between 60-300 V are required to be grounded (i.e. to ground one current-carrying wire, usually the negative) [sec. 250.162(A) of the 2020 NEC].
3. PV system grounding is not required but is allowed [sec. 690.41(A)(1) and 690.41(A)(4)]. In other words, it’s optional to ground the negative or positive wires of a PV array.
4. PV equipment grounding is required [sec. 690.43]. In other words, the electrician must ground the metal frames of the PV modules (solar panels).
5. The NEC really just requires to connect an EGC to the exposed metal parts of the PV system, not to install a new grounding electrode system. But installing a new grounding electrode system and connecting it to the PV equipment is allowed and optional.
6. In telecom systems, all 48-V systems have the positive wire grounded.
As explained in the video, this is for DC non commercial systems and home power use. Mine is 12 to 36 volt, many I have installed are 140 to 300 volt and require a arrestor and some structural grounding by code but not the panels frames. All must be fused, all are fused, but no DC circuit can share a ground with a AC system.
We installed NiCad in many Telecom systems, mostly Sprint, some T-mobile. No grounding on the 56 volt modules was ever done, just the battery case and shunts had a circuit breaker to ground. All the solar used on those were 90 volt and frameless with no ground on them but the cables were in metal conduit that was grounded.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Section 690 applies to all PV arrays, it’s not limited to commercial ones. So even the metal frames of residential PV arrays must be grounded.
@@altuber99_athlete That only applies to commercially installed, not home owner installed to be used with Grid Connecting hardware. And not even in every state. There is zero regulations on owner installed that is not to be connected to the grid unless the county/city provides a code requirement. In Texas, that's only in 16 counties of the 254 counties we have. And for DC systems 36 volt and less, that is only applied to in 18 counties of the 254 counties. For 48 volt and higher its in 83 of the 254 counties. 2014 NEC Article 690 and all alterations does not include by mandate: Home Owner, Mobile, Non Domicile, Recreational, Farm, Non Occupied structures, and Remote Rural sites.
690 is procedures and guidelines ( if adopted by your state or municipality ) for Licensed Electricians or Service Techs to follow during install and service of such systems. Continually trying to read into it a Boogie Man to play games with is not realistic. enkonn-solar.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Article-690-Photovoltaic-PV-System.pdf
@@altuber99_athlete Spend some time telling this guy your findings. He's teaching it, He needs straightened out th-cam.com/video/nKWf7XTg-wg/w-d-xo.html
ground its so important.. save your device and equipment also safety to human..
i too never pud a ground to our solar panels in the roof.... because its a pathway lesser resistance going to earth..
Wise. And that way you do not open a path that did not exist.
So you rather have a path of higher resistance going into your house?
There's no way to prevent lightning strikes, but there surely are ways to prevent them entering your house!
Do you ground your wind generaters!
The steel mast is grounded via its methods of mounting in the ground and that grounds the metal body of the turbine due to the mechanical attachment on the pole, but not the turbine wiring.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 thanks a bunch!
@@JOHNDANIEL1 one other question,
Do tou put a phenolic gasket between the wind generater flange and the tower flange
I wear a ground rod on my football helmet everywhere I go to protect myself against 5G.
Yes, but your likely picking up Alien signals now.
I am a self-taught electrical engineer and I agree with Two Chins 100%. (-:> Disclaimer: Don't blame me blame my teacher
Working on drafting drawings for installs makes you a engineer, repairing it in the field due to mother nature makes you a blue collar maintenance man.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 And taking the equipment back to your shop and fixing the engineering oversights/mistakes to make it actually work how it "theoretically should" make you a technician.
@@johnbrizendine7716 Yet the Edjumacated End-janeers get 500% more pay to guess at it.
@@johnbrizendine7716 i think i fall into that category, lifelong
I got luckily a light shock from an inverter due to a lightning strike in close vacancy of the house.
Definitely ground the metal inverter, or take out a life insurance policy....
Why would you get a shock from a isolated inverter unless you had its common running in the houses wiring, and the house has bonded common and ground. A inverter can not "receive" a lightning strike in any way unless your incorrectly using it. It is like saying your unplugged TV started to play 1960's sitcoms!
OMG.... i love this 🤣🤣🤣 in no way i pretend that i am an expert on the GROUND topic but everything around electricity electronics its like a hobby playing with it.. but when you look everything around you i am little sceptical even putting GROUND in my house.. if there is ground on every pole around my house i think it is dangerous to put yet another one in the house... because when lingthning strikes a pole it doesnt disapate in the ground.. actually the ground is just a conductor.. that lighning passing through the ground actually goes from earth to the ground rod in the house to everything conected to ground.... electricity actually isnt going where the resistance is smallest... electicity actually goes in ALL possible pathways... about the solar panels framing it does make some sense to ground the framing but as you said metal roof or in other words week ground only if you have AC from the grid pluged in the invertor to lower the noise in the system.. it is extremley contraversial topic about GROUND and most of the opinions of people who they say are the "experts" looks like they dont think it trought logically from start to finish and just do what they said in school... COMMON PEOPLE think
You only need to understand George Westinghouse and Nikola Tesla to understand why the ground is used in generative energy. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Westinghouse And the process is same now as then but we went astray on why so much is to be "grounded" and what it means. They all ( the professionals ) seem to connect electrical generation "ground" with Lightning protection "ground" and compound it and the problems by joining the 2 as the same. They ARE NOT!!! Same name, different outcome. For mechanical generated energy you must use the ground as a balancing design due to remote used transformers. With Lightning using a ground is creating a unnatural pathway for lightning to pass through what ever you ground. Centuries ago a lightning rod was used and not placed near homes, typically placed on a barn or other and consisted of Irion from height to depth in earth due to its innate chemically connective history of lightning preferring high ferrous oxide containing soil (ground) to strike.
Go figure, 350 years ago they knew this!! And they not would have connected to a shared ground rod with your utility system. But 85 years ago a drunk code writing bureaucrat was born to change it all!
@@JOHNDANIEL1 totally agree!!!!! I love when I hear some "professional" explaining how important ground is and you ABSOLUTELY have to stick a ground rod... And always my response is ... Excuse me I want to learn about electric stuff can you explain to me what is a ground loop cuz i can't get the idea, what is the effect of it and what is actually making a ground loop 😅😅 and after 10 minutes listening asking the question.. Is it a good idea everyone sticking freaking rods in the ground wherever they want 🤔hahahaha
It will all be specific use case.. hybrid inverters use a ground to complete the circuit. Most regular inverters do not. Generators use a ground for the same reason, but larger generators can be grounded to their case/chassis. A lawn mower, vehicle and so on is grounded to the chassis inherently if it has a battery/alternator. Electric vehicles, ground ac motors to chassis or frame. Technically you should ground the frame of metel panels so in the event of short it has a path that doesnt do further damage, on larger high voltage pv systems even more so.. but again everything is specific use case, is it meant to roll, is it meant to be stationary, temporary ect will require different means of grounding and for use.
Your confusing Grounding with Isolating. Vehicles use chassis isolation. We call it "grounding" due to such being a common expression. But it is not grounding. The use of Earth Ground is to complete a circuit ( Westinghouse 1921 structural power generation manual ) A portable generator uses the chassis for short detection and chassis isolation not grounding. It has sine wave distortion due to not using the earth like a utility does to create a circuit for its distribution. Inverters do not use ground or create one, they use a terminal for Chassis Fault Feedback by design, Connecting one to earth is harmless as long as you do not include a utility design in it.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Isnt it odd in an isolated/ungrounded system the technique is ironically to "ground" to natural capacitance.
@@BrandonWidows Isolation is to use the material at hand to become the natural capacitance or what's referred to as the intermediate grounding. More terms that confuse people about the structural difference of Utility grade power and all other forms. I get non stop arguments about YOU MUST GROUND IT ALL, then they excuse and exclude vehicles, metal window frames, chicken coops, boats and RV's. For some reason those items are purely safe without a ground rod! Any voltage can hurt or kill, but only for certain things I guess. One viewer got labeled spam by You Tube for a diatribe on all the ways I am stupid for telling folks *YOUR SOLAR PANEL FRAMES ARE NOT ELECTRIFIED UNTIL "YOU" CONNECT THEM TO A UTILITY ACCESSED GROUND ROD* . *You can and likely should connect them to a grounded coil or spool but NOT to the homes utility designed rod. He boasted how nuts I was for comparing Aluminum to Aluminum!
@@BrandonWidows Your original post, HYBRID INVERTERS USE A GROUND TO COMPLETE A CIRCUIT - That is actually a bit of a illusion. Emphase and other grid tie modules do not and never have used a ground for basic safe circuit functions. It is there to seek phase accuracy. Not to carry a load of any kind. You can remove the ground and in about a minute your output will be starting to vary but not stop. It only stops when the unit shorts from attempting to match the cycles. In other words, not a "ground" in the safety sense of shock protection.
We went to a guy who installed a ground on 4 of them which were built onto Hyundai 405 watt panels, not to the house panel, but to the ground rod next to the panels. And WOW they did not like it.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 not disagreeing with you by any means. My system is fully off-grid with only "utility" power being backup generator for charging. My panels don't get grounded nor does my combiner. I'm on the fence about grounding my hybrid inverter to earth however.
We get it....just don't run it in the ground.
As a metal detectorist, I can at least say, when we find anything thats been in the ground for a long period of time, it will decay, that decay actually enlarges the signal. ONE QUESTION, how do you get a earth neutral bond on a off grid system without a ground??? you said to let your inverters float!!!! but they need a earth neutral bond, that is sometimes already done for you inside the inverter, other times you have to do it yourself, either way, the inverter is not floating.
Earth Neutral is a defined function of Grid Power, a part of its actual circuit. You do not create a circuit using the ground with Off grid power. Floating is the common and line ( hot) in a isolated use not a ground/common bonded like in a utility system. People can't get it into their heads that Utility power is mechanically created, nothing to do with inverters that create their output from synthesized electronic only methods. A comparison. Utility power ( mechanical over rotation over magnetic generators ) call it NON GMO Corn. Inverters, Switching and boosting from DC voltage using self contained conversion, Call it Franken food. With Corn you need the earth to plant it in, with franken food you need a clean soil free laboratory! Connecting to a ground with a inverter will damage the inverters, it will stop or damage your induced short detection safety system in that inverter so may makers knowing "people do not understand the output is NOT utility" often make a burn trace on the board to vaporize when a bonded system is connected to. A industry secret but a must have ability.
ITS NOT INAF METAL TO INSTALL IN GRAUNT 22 TOMNS OF CABLE LLALALLA
here in aus they send 2 conductors for 1 phase, 3 conductors for 2 phases. earth is used and required for safety to provide a path for any leakage. my panels were on the ground and got wet now they give dc through the frames, you'd feel the 400 odd volts i measured if you touch them barefooted.
See if a set of aluminum windows set up the same would give you voltage. Because a solar panel and a window are no different in electric conductivity to the aluminum frame.
"expands conduction". No,
Iron oxide neo particles in soil, reduced to carbon. And therefore it does not promote conductivity in the soil.
But you go ahead and get somebody electrocuted in a "tragic accident", because sometimes that's what it takes for a person to change their opinion.
You got a lot of work ahead of you on Iron then going out warning all the Cell Phone companies who use it, the AM radio stations since the 1920's who use it, and the hydro electric dams that base their system on it. In fact, a few hundred million use it in their homes as ground rods. It's 1.2 mil thick copper plated high iron steal rods you buy at Home Depot.
Iron in the ground will turn to a number of minerals over time, about 8,000 years it's man altered refined state can be a large amount of carbon. I really don't expect to be in that era discussing it though.
Correct. There's many people who choose to talk and actually not say anything. Thank you for joining them.
Always ground above 120v DC! (3 pannels in series)...Above that, it will kill you.
If your running your power though your aluminum frame, then your already making trouble for yourself. Re-wire to remove using the isolated frame from your circuit. Seems people are confusing Aluminum frames on solar panels with it having any voltage to start with. Otherwise use fusing or breakers and proper gauge wire and no matter what your DC volts are, never use the frame as a circuit.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 If you have a damaged cable the DC can go to the frame. If it is not grounded it will go through the lowest resistance ( your body ). A fuse in solar is the one thing you should talk about. Solar pannels can be shorted and will never go above the Isc current so in most cases a normal fuse will do nothing. for lightning protection have teh rod before your installation. ( between your pannels and the installation ). Also make sure you dont have an induction loop and install an SPD. You can not compare a 800vDC multi pannel string to a 12vDC car. DC will kill you above 120vDC. With DC there is no sinus where you can disconnect yourself when polarities switch(0vAC). DC is very dangerous. sorry to say but your advice could kill people.
@@zelfvoorzien My advice stands as I showed. I explain it as low voltage, I never discuss 120 volts DC, in fact the entire list of objects in the video is under 48 volts. I refer to fusing at the panels which is factual. But if a wire from your panels, 1 wire is shorted to frame you will not be electrocuted unless *you* grounded something next to it as well as or to the batteries in the system. Learn about DC electricity some, you can touch the post on a 200+ volt DC terminal, which I have done on video and without you creating a path by also grabbing something near it that is grounded to the other side of the DC power equation, you will get absolutely nothing into you. ( Westinghouse /Tesla AC verses Edison DC argument over 100 years ago, learn facts ) www.history.com/news/what-was-the-war-of-the-currents . AC voltage can bite you due to it being in cycles, touch one wire whether your grounded or not, you get bit by the +/- which creates a partial path.
You don't have to believe reality, but you can prove me wrong, it's easy. Get a large Capacitor, charge it to 600 volts DC, touch one side, + or - choose either! When you get absolutely nothing shot through your hand, then reply. Now ground the table your sitting it on, repeat test. Now Ground table AND the other side of that capacitor plus put your free hand on the table............. OK, now your missing fingers.
Yes by code anything that has conduit on the roof of any house needs to be grounded this includes solar panels. The key is to that it needs its own separate ground do not use the same ground as the utility. Its just a lot safer for solar panels to have its own ground wire if they are on the roof. If lightning does strike the solar panels on a roof its just better for it to be directed to go towards ground. If the solar panels do not have ground it will most likely follow the wires towards the batteries and destroy everything connected to it, but I'm thinking that will happen regardless if its properly grounded or not since lightning is incredibly powerful but its still a lot safer to ground the solar panels. Flexible solar panels do not have conduit or aluminum frame those will not need a ground. Also while its rare its not impossible for a lightning to strike the top of a car even if it has solar panels or not, for the most part you will be safe because if lightning hits the top of RV the shell of the RV will become energized and go towards ground thru all 4 tires - you will definitely still have a lot of electronics fried up though regardless. You just have to hope lightning never strikes your car or roof & never park under a tree when its raining. I'm thinking since inverters will never have a surge it won't need a ground to send that surge to ground, maybe only if it gets a lightning strike but again if a lightning strikes you'd most likely need to make major repairs to home for weeks you just have to hope it never happens.
The real cure is remote higher targets like lightning rods. Or placing solar on metal roofs. Using metal roofs makes it where the lightning discharge is so expansive that it repels into atmospheric static. No single point collection or dispersion. In test of a AC unit on a roof of a building, the one on wood framing was destroyed by lightning, the one mounted on a full sheet metal roof had its relays damaged. Not allowing the 1 mm wide arc of lightning to concentrate all its energy into one square foot of discharge weakens its ability to do damage.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 I haven't yet set up a solar array but I've been thinking about this for a while when I do start building a system. What I've thought of was instead of mounting the solar panels on my roof I can just have them on the ground itself - this will make it easier to clean them when they get dusty & no ground is really needed since they are not in high elevation & the solar panels temps will also be a lot lower and make more energy.l
If lightning were to hit your solar panels, there would be a severe amount of current that would be best served going through a ground wire into the ground, then trying to find another path such as going into your equipment, destroying it.
That principal is quite simple.
Additionally, power created in the power plant runs through the hot wire and goes back to the power plant on the neutral. The ground is not part of the circuit as you as you inappropriately state.
In the event that the neutral got severed, and therefore the power needed to return back to its source, that is why the ground exists. To give that current a place to go.
Also, whether you're on or "off "the grid, people still have to pay property tax and abide by local codes.
So get yourself a piece of wire and a grounding rod, and do it the right way .
Now I will add one caveat. When it comes to "required "grounding that is only for systems that are over 50 V.
If you were in your RV which is a 12 V system, then obviously a ground would not be required. Even if you were running 48 V and then stepping that down to 12 same principle, but once you exceed 50 V you're not going to want to have any accidental current, running through you as you step out of your RV onto the ground. ...
You do not understand electricity. For one, Airplanes have NO ground rods their bodies pass lightning around the shell out to the earth, but they have a 60 volt DC electrical system. Ships have a 36 volt system under 9 meters, 72 volt dc over 9 meters, and no ground.
Solar panels are not connected via their metal panel frame to the +/- of your DC circuit, no matter from 0 volts to 1500 volts. The only way you will enhance, or migrate a lightning strike to you is by using a ground. It's called a Attraction.
The only way you will energize a piece of aluminum, whether on a solar panel or on your work bench is with a ground wire, not by letting it stand alone.
The standard Metro Overhead has up to 4 hot wires, Rural usually 2, a active and second active and NO NEUTRAL. Only one hot goes to a transformer on split phase, 2 do on 3/4 phase. They are All hots unless it is industrial and designed to be non standard.
The years we worked for Siemens Electric building huge wind turbines we never had a "Neutral" in any transmission lines. Top wire on a pole is a ground, not a neutral. It is connected to a ground on every pole, not a neutral.
***I jumped the paint and pictures part of this General Electric training video to get you to exactly that GROUND that is part of the circuit you claim does not exist. ( th-cam.com/video/PnwGTPPnTd4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=vZaXDTs37W2bV989&t=165 ) and when in Vocational training we also had to learn of multi phase due to the Hyundai gen sets on the turbines being 3 and 5 phase. And the GTE Transformers wiring diagrams.
So this video th-cam.com/video/xMZkKI5rleg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PNLDp7lmDTt5FwVL also with details on that "circuit" of ground, neutral created via ground, also details it. Still, not a neutral. A neutral is a ground, it returns to the Transformer ground post, not a overhead or underground feeder, but to the ground matching tap ( top wire & solid 13 coils on end of pole 6 awg rural, 13 coils of 4 gauge Metro Ground tab/cable)
A neutral is what your making from the house, to the transformer in response to create flow, not from the power plant to your house. That is why when you "bond Neutral and ground" your only adding short circuit support to the mains.
PS - The last person I said 5 phase to ( in the original response) they knew so much they went straight crack head on me. So To cover that, I include that generator info ( still no neutral ) all our 64 meter wind turbines and the natural gas driven models used. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110016815001076#f0010 **Mentions to Neutral are post rectification, on site applied, not in the transmission or 5 lug output power system from the rotating sources.
Put a ring on that girl's finger.
Cute little daughter you got
You ground the panels NOT for lightning strike protection! That is an entire separate part of the NEC code for that as discussed by mike holt. The reason you ground solar panels is that when there is a near strike, your metal parts will INDUCT voltage that needs to be dissipated to ground. You can see this on metal roofs exploding and arcing to ground when a nearby lightning strike occurs from induction. There is video evidence of this and it causes fires and also causes damage to your panels if you didn't ground them. Its not about return neutral to earth voltage like AC, but its about dissipating induction voltage, that also why Delta three phase ungrounded systems were phased out from equipment failure due to inductive currents jumping across equipment.
*also forgot to add this, safety equipment that protects against Arc Fault on DC current, which you know does NOT extinguish itself (Gain solar vids on this) Need a ground connection to the Negative DC solar connection. Then you use GFDI type breakers to detect if your solar array is arcing somewhere causing a fire. Grounding is important but yes, it is not quite the same as AC grounding.
Ionic static can and does affect solar panel frames, but that is only common on very remote stand alone systems. Around any home or location with infrastructure you never see this. The best way to deal with arrant chance is to install actual static grounding which is NOT involving actual ground rods, but surface ground plates. We do use those if the array is framed, just not rods. science.howstuffworks.com/nature/natural-disasters/lightning2.htm
...and I just thought I was stupid. It turns out I was being deceived.
A lot of that going around lately.😊
Knitting materials, LoL
think they wouldn't have gotten so much damage if they hadn't bonded all their equipment to earth ground? th-cam.com/video/7DvIjAvMge0/w-d-xo.html
You are completely correct on the grounding attracting more static and lightning, though, especially with solar panels.
The only reason I ground anything is to prevent static and electromagnetic interference, but on a solar system I always use a grounding wire with a spark gap so that it does not actually give it a ground, but with the spark gap, it will give any large static buildup a path to ground via the spark gap without actually being a ground in and of itself. I do the same with my ham radio antenna arrays and tower, if it is directly grounded, it will cause a standing wave or directly conduct the radio waves to the earth, but with a spark gap, it will allow any dangerous voltage or static charges or lightning to jump the gap and go directly to ground.
A long time ago I was putting up a temporary antenna array, and it was not very high up at all, and I didn't run the ground wire/spark gap combo, and for some reason there was a LOT of static built up in the air around it and when I was running coaxial cable I got quite the static discharge, it hit me pretty hard, just glad it hit me instead of the repeater I was configuring. Flesh heals and bones knit, but semiconductors burn up.
For my most expensive gear, I always use an isolation transformer and a completely separate the ground from the rest of the electrical circuit to prevent unwanted interference from the electrical grid, while preventing unwanted interference from other emissions.
Grounding and how to implement grounding and knowing what to ground and what not to ground is a very VERY complex subject, depending on what equipment you are working with and if it isn't done properly will cause more issues and cost more than you could imagine.
I do use TVS devices and chokes on the incoming lines from my solar panels, just in case something comes through that may damage my equipment, as well as smoothing out any ripple caused by the fast switching semiconductors in charge controller. ( In my opinion, you can never use enough chokes when wiring one component/device to another. ) The chokes to prevent small spikes and the TVS devices because they are not a conductor except above a certain voltage threshold, so it will not be a path to ground until just after it gets hit. Won't attract the discharges, but will dissipate them if they do happen to hit.
Great discourse! Why build an Electro Magnetic Pulse magnet to blow up your own stuff! Your spark gap solution is brilliant!
I install on METAL buildings or metal roofs, I argue with lots of people telling them to use metal roofing as a install base. Now the why: You are 27X more likely to get a antenna on a chimney struck by lightning than a metal barn roof. Wonder why? Mass Squared. Lightning is 1mm in width, looks huge, thats the light. But it is seeking ground resource to build from. A large metal roof takes that charge and equalizes over volume of area. But a single antenna on a chimney gives it concentration to arc up. So, mounting on metal makes your panels less of a pinpoint target. I build ( making video later ) a array that uses metal roofing panels, that is why I got so much laying around here. Using lamination cross link methods. Very strong, very lightning resistant.
@@hellandbackhoe Electrical current runs perpendicular to electro magnetic fields, so if an electromagnetic field passes over electrical conductors, it generates some current and can cause voltage spikes and unwanted interference, so by putting a choke on all connecting wiring, it will literally absorb that extra current/interference (see faraday's law). Not sure what you mean by building an electro magnetic pulse magnet, though. The spark gap concept was widely used from the 20's through the 50's for protecting sensitive electronic equipment and preventing lightning and static discharge damage.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Have you heard of Nikola Tesla's lightning rod/lightning repeller, it follows pretty much the same concept that you use for mounting solar panels on metal structures.
Yes, as previous comments I am a deep follower of Land, Tesla, Faraday and even Augustus Lemont of Westinghouse. These guys understand energy, they understand most important environmental issues.
I'm not here to diss you. You, as a man and a father just recently gained my respect. 😊
But... you do seem to be a little confused in regard to electricity and electronics.
I will not start blabbing about my experience but:
*Grounding* in any electrical circuit is a protection feature.
In AC systems it can also properly protect us from electrocution.
In DC systems, grounding protects the electronic components and protects us too from loosing cash, housing, life and limbs.
There are three main big dangers in solar power systems that can be reduced with propper grounding:
Electrostatic buildup - your panels and cables mihht be high-up somewhere and if they float (electrically) in regard to the ground, they can acumulate really big electrostatic charges. These can really damage electronics even if it can't pose a (direct) life or health issue.
Faults and EMI/RFI - now these won't work in impropper instalations but, in general, poropper grounding and propper overload protection systems can prevent electrocution, electrical fires and radio interference.
Induced surge currents from lighthning strikes - now, if your system is struck by lightning you're screwed, period. But if the strike is not direct, dangerous currents are still induced in your system. The later can be adressed by propper grounding and propper protectiin circuits.
The ground is a _third_ conductor in any circuit. It is the conductor we humans are in contact with. It is regarded as a neutral refference and usefull in fault detection and mitigation.
As anything else on this particular planet, impropper grounding can do more harm than good.
Stuff that is high-up should be grounded or have pathways to grpund for surges. Stuff that can leak currents on the outside sould be grounded.
Not confused one bit, but if grounding solar panel frames is important to you, do it. Grounding unpowered things that are on everything will need a few trillion tons of copper. Argument being equal, unless its to be cherry picked to eliminate inconvenient facts. See you at the aluminum skylight grounding party.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 iron is good enough for putting those electrostatic buildups to rest ;)
You reminded me tgat a local hardware shop used to sell copper plate, cables and rods for grounding and I found out after they sold it all and never stocked back again because it sat in shop gor years
Edit: and I was writing specifically about electric/electronic stuff not skylights but I'd ground that too.
Let me tell you about a personal experience I had a month ago. I lost $5 worth of equipment but that is not the point.
My pv system at my new home is currently under construction. Nothing fancy or big, just 1.2kw of pv on the roof.
The grounding and suppressors are still work in progress and I forgot to disconnect the array when I left for a while.
There was a storm, not much but with some lightning in the area. The house was disconnected from mains, the charger was disconnected from the battery but still plugged in the solar array.
One digital voltage/current monitor was fried. Nothing else but if the esd/surge
protection box would've been grounded (and populated with the appropriate IGDs :)) ) nothing would've happened.
Stay safe. The costs of grounding and protections are no match for the costs of property, health or life.
@ So far, and thats just due to medical center records deaths from any form of DC voltage is responsible for 108 deaths since 1980, nearly all are misuse of a welder. AC voltage is responsible for 331,800 deaths since 1978.
When a solar and controller event happens, 99% of the time it is that the controller was earth grounded, using the chassis post or shared a ground with the structures utility rated ground circuit. Any if not all ground rods produce a eddy current to above ground objects, and can in storms release a discharge voltage. They are for AC voltage, not DC. ep2000.com/understanding-neutral-ground-grounding-bonding/ and the facts about DC voltage can be easily summed up by the following www.history.com/news/what-was-the-war-of-the-currents
Your frames on your solar panel are like your frames on your windows, skylights, metal flashing on a shingled roof. In fact, the National Roofing Contractors Association recommends NOT to deliberately ground metal objects on your roof to deter corrosion and lightning opportunity.
Lightning arrestors, EMP devices and grounding non in circuit solar panel frames is snake oil and only increases your likely damage.
girlie wear rubber gloves when you touch a tap
She wires it all live, with wet hands and carburetor cleaner for hairspray. She's tough.
yeah I'm good😊
I totally agree I had an inverter powering my house for 6year peaple kept telling me to ground so I did it fried my inverter in two hrs 450 dollers down the drain I should have known with the big spark s that flew when I attached the ground wire. This guy knows don't ground panel or inverter or your car
Treat your inverters as a island and it will run right. And you won't put wild voltage from refrigerator/air conditioner and transformer feedback into your solar either.
only time ive ever seen grounded solar is in the USA , i guessed they did it for lightning HEY it works LOL, what kinda solar panel efficiency is that i wonder LOL.
i was thinking with my PUNY brain i should do a MEN connection and grounding on my off grid inverter so rcds actually trip in a timely fashion and i dont get sued if someone gets zapped if by some unlucky chance they happen to cut neutral and active simultaneously with someting conductive.
People in Code Writing Grubberment offices are just morons. They confuse Utility power with inverters and portable generators. They confuse Solar power creation with Utility Power. Only the utility MUST have a ground to earth and it it NOT for lightning or some nefarious need, it is to complete its actual circuit. ( Westinghouse 1898) ( Tesla 1891) ( Pavel Yablochkov 1876 ) ( Earnest Free - Edison Labs 1899 ).
Earth grounding any object increases its likelihood of receiving a lightning strike by over 700%, (US Military Naval Electricians handbook 1971), (General Electric HVT Study - 1932)
On site self contained power generation ( David Sumpter - Cole Hersey 1925 ) ( Vorgas Lemetti - Siemens - 1892) ( Chester Bradford - IBM 1949) has no need or requirement for the use of earth grounding for safety or completion of circuits. On site is not at risk of atmospheric electrical fields such as discharge or lightning. Fusing of high tolerance reactivity is recommended for safety.
YOU GOTTA GROUND YOUR ROOF, SOLAR PANEL FRAMES, DOGS, AND COWS ( Bubba You Tube Uploader - 2023 )
the frame goes live darlinks
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss%27s_law
John, you're a smart guy, I enjoy your videos for the information, but the anti-intellectual remarks. are off putting. Snarky comments are usually fun. Condescending comments are a put off. But that's just my opinion...I could be wrong. Keep on keepin' on....
We have thousands of "intellectuals" also referred to as "The Elites" running our entire western society into the gates of Hell. It don't get their kind much love! The people who run into a burning building poorly designed by those intellectuals are what those same "intellectuals" call the irredeemable deplorables. The same Intellectuals who sit in their ivory towers call the people who supply them with food, fuel and water as Fly Over trash. They earn snarky and then some dragged into the cornfields and beaten like in the movie Casino.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Its about control, not about leading society well :)
John,
The reason why solar panel FRAMES are grounded... Is NOT to protect the solar panel from lightning damage. It is to protect people that have a path to ground with their bodies. Electrical heat, Any energized conductor can melt and short with a solar panel FRAME, and this is the main purpose that enclosures and fixtures are grounded.
Volt DC is just as dangerous as Volt AC (Although you could argue that AC being pulsing can hit you harder due to the oscillation) The higher the voltage, the greater electricity conducts with the human skin, and the longer the electricity can jump through air molecules.
12-48VDC (Less than 50VDC) is considered safe for mobile devices without needing grounding of parts that are near the solar FRAME because the resistance in a human body is high enough to prevent current from traveling through our limbs.
For solar panels connected in paralleled, ground is not needed because the voltage does not exceed 48VDC.
if you connect solar panels in a string configuration between 450-600VDC, we are dealing with voltages that considered "Medium voltage", and is capable of locking a technician/installer to the FRAME if there was a direct path to the solar panel current carrying wire. Now the current will travel through the human body all the way down to ground, however the path is established.
Be very careful with voltages higher than 50-120VDC and up! Don't let your DIY project be the end of someone's life.
Nice try. But why would a proper installed wiring job lead to such calamity? You can ground your roof too, and your carport and your trees. Lots of power lines near them too. OR Use fuses like the manufactures instruct you to do, then no matter what you do while improperly wiring your solar with under gauged risky wire to 600 volts you will not have a continuous hot short from melting crappy under rated wiring and work.
**Solar frame grounding is for as described by manufacturers, solely as lightning protection not DC shorts to earth ground use. Installers have pushed this DC ground lie to the profit of a billion dollars. Use proper wire and fuses LIKE YOUR CAR DOES or even like Cellular power systems of 250 VDC transceivers uses and you will not have a issue to ground your DC power to itself or the earth.
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Also, grounding your light fixtures isn't necessary in all cases either. However, it's a good idea as it makes your light fixture safer and reduces the risk of injury. I don't see how a 500-600VDC solar array is any different. (And 100% of regulators will agree with this point)
If you don't want to be regulated by a "electrical professional", go ahead and keep your solar panels ungrounded.. The likelihood of 500-600VDC leaking into a solar panel frame may be very minimal.
But the fuse won't trip if the Amps doesn't exceed 15A that the panel is rated for. The body has enough resistance to not exceed 15A.
And I have a gut feeling that car manufacturers use 250VDC transceivers need a higher and stricture insulative regulatory guidelines in order to sell them.
You can even submerge electrical equipment with the right NEMA/IP rating, I'm not saying that solar panel fabricators can't make products that are fail proof. But I don't think that most solar panels are UL listed coming from Korea/China.
@@lassewestvanghougaard4856 I agree with grounding on any AC voltage system, but a point you applied *(And 100% of regulators will agree with this point)* you lost me!! Their banter is not based on actual skilled electricians, those people *REGULATORS* are government scum bags who never have even tied their own shoes, they panic at screwing in a light bulb, those people call Nuclear Power a bad thing, Hydro power a evil thing. They sue you if you install a Wind Turbine near their house, sue others who refuse to have one near their home. They shall tell you Solar is from their Gods. But per 10KW energy capability used, during manufacture and later to dispose which creates more waste than a family of 8 people per year does. But they call it "God Like".
Those REGULATORS are like lawyers, social workers, perverts and molesters - Real societal dead weight. They are non performing tax payer funded Educated idiots, AKA human waste, AKA tax eating lying bureaucrats which feed at the same trough as a cock roach. In the common sense world the other 95% reside in, we consider them that thing you do not want to step into while walking. LOL!! 😝
More safety recalls on decisions by regulators/code enforcers have happened in the 20th century than by manufactures or installers who out number them 139 to 1. ( OSHA RECORDS OF APPLIED RULE 2014 )
@@lassewestvanghougaard4856 Not sure what you read but I never said auto uses 250 vdc ( you quoted - *car manufacturers use 250VDC transceivers* )
No, Cellular phone towers use 250vdc transceivers, their battery systems In Re: AT&T/Sprint Hughes Communications electronics sending units; 17 amps, 250 vdc transceiver battery system. Applied power system, Nicad from 1993 to 2013, Nimh from 2011 to 2018 Phasing in Lithium Li-poly 2016 to current date.
No battery grounding to earth, all earth structural grounding using iron ballast to cell towers.
@@lassewestvanghougaard4856 PS - Study UL listed. Underwriters Lab is a back door to manufacturers evading law suits. Was created for that purpose, originally funded by General Electric and Singer corp. ( wikipedia has "altered the truth on UL" but Ralph Nader busted them).
Bribed government officials then created the so called "industry group", Jesse Helms and other senators got rich off it.
Decades earlier you were more likely to get safe items if not UL listed than if UL listed. WHY??? - UL listed allows a manufacturer to dodge law suits, allows them to skimp on materials to barely meet safe requirements. When they do not use UL, or CE, they over build so cover their asses from law suits. 80% or higher ( Cloe Vercher of UL in a 1997 Law Suit depo ) of the items they pass are not even physically tested, just UL taking the words of the manufacturer who paid for the certifications.
The people who work at UL and similar outfits have been caught numerous times creating false reports for sake of bribes.
dudes the the same as grounding your washing machine... ffs. charge builds in ungrounded stuff and will gladly use you and your heart to escape. You use a copper grounding rod because rusty iron is very poor conductor. who cars if it pulls out easier. It goes down 8 feet to touch moist soil.