I got my A&P in 1990. I couldn't find a job working as a mechanic back then. I only had military experience, and companies didn't consider it experience back then. If you didn't have any general aviation experience, you didn't have any. In 1997 I left a factory job making $15 per hour to work for a commuter airline for $9.50 per hour that went out of business years ago. That was my foot in the door. Two weeks after I started they were shut down my the FAA. I didn't lose my job, they worked us like dogs. After three months I left. I went contracting after that. In my career I have worked General Aviation, Commercial, and Business. Nowadays military experience is considered experience. Taking all that into account, I am over 30 years. I quit turning wrenches on planes in 2010. With multiple business jet platforms under my belt, and many schools I've attended for aircraft specific, companies want all that experience for $0. They will pay a pilot $90k plus per year, and screw the maintenance technicians. I was hired in with a company as their Director of Maintenance. After four months of working there and setting up their shop, the president of the company called me into talk with me. He then thanked me for all I've done setting up the shop, but let me go because my salary was too much and he said we can find cheaper now that it was set up. I never saw it coming. The company at the time had four Learjets, and one Cessna 441. They went out of business five years ago. They wanted my Learjet experience and they got it then screwed me over. I've worked at MRO's and they treat you like a second class citizen as well. I'm still young and now days I'm back to contracting working on the manufacturing side. I make six figures easily, and for all you new A&P's reading this, get your education. Having a degree in your stack will help when you want to walk away from this career. It doesn't matter what the degree is in. I've seen companies hire people with underwater basket weaving degrees. They don't know squat about aviation or aerospace, but they have a degree and that is what they want. I will give credit to what these guys stated. Being a aircraft mechanic is a skilled trade. Yet, an auto mechanic pay is more than that of a A&P. The experience is leaving the field or retiring out. The training to get an A&P is way out of date. With the technology today, and with all the aircraft that are being retired, those should be the learning platform. Wood, Dope and Fabric, who has worked that? I know I have never seen anything with 1903 technology in any of the shops I've worked in. I went to a electrical troubleshooting class at Flight Safety back in 2002, The instructor, who was an electrical engineer, stated "If you don't know how to read wiring diagrams or schematics, you better learn now because that is the future." Today, you hook up a laptop to a jet or print out the fault reports in the cockpit. Planes are so smart today they will tell you what maintenance manual and chapters to go to. Good Luck!
I had a similar experience but had finally worked for Beechcraft at Fort Meade on US Army C-12's (Super King Air B200) for almost 6 years. That still counted against me as "military Experience". Then worked in Saudi Arabia on their F-15s for a while, came back and worked at a local FBO. Six months in I see an owner under the cowl of his Cessna 150 I just did the annual on and quit on the spot, way too much liability for me to tolerate. Took some computer/networking classes and have been in IT ever since.
This is why you treat your workers correctly. It can take 2 years to get your A&P license. Not just that, but the cost of school. Nobody wants to bust their ass to get a job where they treat you below par.
This topic is brought up at school often and I'm curious to see it for myself when I finish. I do agree that some people are not really interested in Aviation but in the dollar or mechanical challenges, it was eye opening for me at first but after time I guess it's normal anywhere you go.
I work for the Federal Police helicopter squadron of Germany, mainly on ec135 and ec155 as an Aircraft technician. I come a long way to get there and i had to move/be flexible very often. I love the job and my passion was always related to aviation. But even here in Europe/Germany many young people dont want to join the aviation industry. Its very hard to get skilled workers and i bet the payment here is way lower then in the US
I’m headed to college in about 9 months for my last 3 years, majoring in aviation technologies. I’ll have the choice to specialize in planes, helicopters, or drones.
All that talk.... truth is that owners of these Jets are loaded with money. It's easy to deliver six figure invoice to them with ass kissing included. And also if hour costs 200-300$ then give that man good pay check at end of the month. You pay maintenance guy less.....well you fly that plane and if anything bad happens he is the first in line for interrogation and possibly jail time
Problem is you have people who need to know so much/do so much and they’re not compensated for it. Auto mechanics make more than A&P’s. As an A&P the start up cost is so much to pay the DME the school the certification fees etc. other certifications to make you more valuable. FCC/AET then to top it all of most companies want you to Have a CDL. I’m separating from the Air Force next year and I’m scared.
I got my Training in the AirForce as a Jet Engine Mechanic. In my Shop I got my Engines out faster than anyone else in my shops.. I breezed through Tech School very easy..
The salaries and leadership offered at the MRO was a huge factor for me. I was paid less than $10hr as an A&P with no experienceand I thought "OK, I'll prove my worth and develop myself. I did until I became the Chief Inspector of the facility but the salary was still not great. The A&P mechanics and Inspectors were all still paid below $25 with years of experience and most, including myself, left for better opportunities or to not put up with the poor leadership and way the place was run, which did not properly recognize the efforts of the people.
So where did you go, I'm in school to become an A&P with a bachelor's degree, and am wondering if I'm making a mistake. I am concerned about becoming trapped into a low income grind as a mechanic.
@@randucci Ultimately I don't really give a fuck about planes, I like tinkering with things but I can do that on my free time. If there is better paying and better working conditions I think I should cut my losses, as my job as panel crew at an MRO right now I'm treated like scum and get paid not great. I'm not sure the money will come is true, because I'm working with guys that are 60 and are making $10 an hour more than me and have 30 years experience.
Everyone has to grind. Important part is not getting stuck. Money is in contract work, however you will not have benefits and no security you'll have long-term work in one place so you might be move around a lot. I preferred not to get into that because there is not a lot of room for professional growth. I also am not an aircraft aficionado but I did enjoy the challenge and responsibility of working on them. I don't have a degree but I proved myself in management positions. A&P and experience weighs heavier in aviation. So you'd have to weigh in if you want to stay in the industry or not. Go with your gut.
Aircraft mechanics are undervalued. Why would you be an A&P mechanic making $26 / hr when you could work at Walmart for $24 / hr? You have to have a passion for aviation to accept and offer like that, and I think the business people take advantage of that. Without mechanics nothing would fly, it's important that everyone knows that.
Yeah, labor rates increasing to $200-300/hour, but they will still pay the employee a tenth or less of that. Not every employer, but that's how the world works. If there is a demand, they'll have to pay for it.
Well that's why you need more people to work in the maintenance to lower the the maintenance so it balances it out building a plane has a pricetag after that is the growing jet fuel or gas you need
I wish I never joined the aviation maintenance field. This sucks. You get offered crap pay, or you have to sacrifice your family and social life to work a lot of OT. Yet, my local auto body shop pays their guys $45/ hour. Smh
This is what aviation maintenance is about. Everybody eating off your plate before you even taste the food. I'm done, a few more months and I'm walking.
Yup. I got burned the fuck out slaving jets for the Air Force sacrificing my sanity and body. Endless hours, weekends, holidays, birthdays, anniversaries. Fuck all that. After I retire, I'm not planning on touching another aircraft again.
So can anyone here provide me an explanation of why it was hard to get a job as an aircraft mechanic during the 90’s? One of A&P instructors after he became certified in 1990 he was delivering pizza soon afterwards because he couldn’t get an AMT job? I mean what the heck happened exactly?
There is certain types of maintenance it's hard to repair a broken fighter pilot engine when you are used to maintaining commercial planes they use different engines and parts
Just get a 737 or a 787...they are sold in the thousands... I never really considered those smallish Gulfstream and bombardier as being private Jets anyway
Well they are. And their performance is up there with 737s and 787s. same max ceiling, same alt. same (if not further) range, same speed capabilities. Gulfstreams can climb faster without losing as much speed energy. Boeing BBJs are well and good. Particularly in cost (depending on what you want in a jet) But don't bash the corporate jet market until you've walked inside a Global 7500 Express or a G650ER or a Dassault Falcon 900EX.
It’s a challenge because for years you treated workers like slaves. Cut pay rates. Lay offs out sourcing etc Mechanics today make what people made in the 1980’s These shops charge 100plus an hour for labor and pay the workers 25 an hour with crap benefits.
I got my A&P in 1990. I couldn't find a job working as a mechanic back then. I only had military experience, and companies didn't consider it experience back then. If you didn't have any general aviation experience, you didn't have any. In 1997 I left a factory job making $15 per hour to work for a commuter airline for $9.50 per hour that went out of business years ago. That was my foot in the door. Two weeks after I started they were shut down my the FAA. I didn't lose my job, they worked us like dogs. After three months I left. I went contracting after that. In my career I have worked General Aviation, Commercial, and Business. Nowadays military experience is considered experience. Taking all that into account, I am over 30 years. I quit turning wrenches on planes in 2010. With multiple business jet platforms under my belt, and many schools I've attended for aircraft specific, companies want all that experience for $0. They will pay a pilot $90k plus per year, and screw the maintenance technicians. I was hired in with a company as their Director of Maintenance. After four months of working there and setting up their shop, the president of the company called me into talk with me. He then thanked me for all I've done setting up the shop, but let me go because my salary was too much and he said we can find cheaper now that it was set up. I never saw it coming. The company at the time had four Learjets, and one Cessna 441. They went out of business five years ago. They wanted my Learjet experience and they got it then screwed me over. I've worked at MRO's and they treat you like a second class citizen as well. I'm still young and now days I'm back to contracting working on the manufacturing side. I make six figures easily, and for all you new A&P's reading this, get your education. Having a degree in your stack will help when you want to walk away from this career. It doesn't matter what the degree is in. I've seen companies hire people with underwater basket weaving degrees. They don't know squat about aviation or aerospace, but they have a degree and that is what they want. I will give credit to what these guys stated. Being a aircraft mechanic is a skilled trade. Yet, an auto mechanic pay is more than that of a A&P. The experience is leaving the field or retiring out. The training to get an A&P is way out of date. With the technology today, and with all the aircraft that are being retired, those should be the learning platform. Wood, Dope and Fabric, who has worked that? I know I have never seen anything with 1903 technology in any of the shops I've worked in. I went to a electrical troubleshooting class at Flight Safety back in 2002, The instructor, who was an electrical engineer, stated "If you don't know how to read wiring diagrams or schematics, you better learn now because that is the future." Today, you hook up a laptop to a jet or print out the fault reports in the cockpit. Planes are so smart today they will tell you what maintenance manual and chapters to go to. Good Luck!
I had a similar experience but had finally worked for Beechcraft at Fort Meade on US Army C-12's (Super King Air B200) for almost 6 years. That still counted against me as "military Experience". Then worked in Saudi Arabia on their F-15s for a while, came back and worked at a local FBO. Six months in I see an owner under the cowl of his Cessna 150 I just did the annual on and quit on the spot, way too much liability for me to tolerate. Took some computer/networking classes and have been in IT ever since.
This is why you treat your workers correctly. It can take 2 years to get your A&P license. Not just that, but the cost of school. Nobody wants to bust their ass to get a job where they treat you below par.
And pay is 💩
This topic is brought up at school often and I'm curious to see it for myself when I finish. I do agree that some people are not really interested in Aviation but in the dollar or mechanical challenges, it was eye opening for me at first but after time I guess it's normal anywhere you go.
Im interested in where you are today 3 years after your comment
I work for the Federal Police helicopter squadron of Germany, mainly on ec135 and ec155 as an Aircraft technician. I come a long way to get there and i had to move/be flexible very often.
I love the job and my passion was always related to aviation.
But even here in Europe/Germany many young people dont want to join the aviation industry. Its very hard to get skilled workers and i bet the payment here is way lower then in the US
I’m headed to college in about 9 months for my last 3 years, majoring in aviation technologies. I’ll have the choice to specialize in planes, helicopters, or drones.
All that talk.... truth is that owners of these Jets are loaded with money. It's easy to deliver six figure invoice to them with ass kissing included.
And also if hour costs 200-300$ then give that man good pay check at end of the month. You pay maintenance guy less.....well you fly that plane and if anything bad happens he is the first in line for interrogation and possibly jail time
Exaaaaaaaaaaactly, that's why rather than argue and complain about I'm just packing it in and walking away.
I'm tired.
Problem is you have people who need to know so much/do so much and they’re not compensated for it. Auto mechanics make more than A&P’s. As an A&P the start up cost is so much to pay the DME the school the certification fees etc. other certifications to make you more valuable. FCC/AET then to top it all of most companies want you to Have a CDL. I’m separating from the Air Force next year and I’m scared.
Very important people in our society
I got my Training in the AirForce as a Jet Engine Mechanic. In my Shop I got my Engines out faster than anyone else in my shops.. I breezed through Tech School very easy..
You must be an expert to manage that in between all your meetme and computer technical problem query videos
The salaries and leadership offered at the MRO was a huge factor for me. I was paid less than $10hr as an A&P with no experienceand I thought "OK, I'll prove my worth and develop myself. I did until I became the Chief Inspector of the facility but the salary was still not great. The A&P mechanics and Inspectors were all still paid below $25 with years of experience and most, including myself, left for better opportunities or to not put up with the poor leadership and way the place was run, which did not properly recognize the efforts of the people.
So where did you go, I'm in school to become an A&P with a bachelor's degree, and am wondering if I'm making a mistake. I am concerned about becoming trapped into a low income grind as a mechanic.
@@awesomecooly123 you need to decide where your heart's at, money will come.
@@randucci Ultimately I don't really give a fuck about planes, I like tinkering with things but I can do that on my free time. If there is better paying and better working conditions I think I should cut my losses, as my job as panel crew at an MRO right now I'm treated like scum and get paid not great. I'm not sure the money will come is true, because I'm working with guys that are 60 and are making $10 an hour more than me and have 30 years experience.
Everyone has to grind. Important part is not getting stuck. Money is in contract work, however you will not have benefits and no security you'll have long-term work in one place so you might be move around a lot. I preferred not to get into that because there is not a lot of room for professional growth.
I also am not an aircraft aficionado but I did enjoy the challenge and responsibility of working on them. I don't have a degree but I proved myself in management positions. A&P and experience weighs heavier in aviation. So you'd have to weigh in if you want to stay in the industry or not. Go with your gut.
@@randucci Thanks for the insight, i really do appreciate it
Aircraft mechanics are undervalued. Why would you be an A&P mechanic making $26 / hr when you could work at Walmart for $24 / hr? You have to have a passion for aviation to accept and offer like that, and I think the business people take advantage of that. Without mechanics nothing would fly, it's important that everyone knows that.
Yeah, labor rates increasing to $200-300/hour, but they will still pay the employee a tenth or less of that. Not every employer, but that's how the world works. If there is a demand, they'll have to pay for it.
Well that's why you need more people to work in the maintenance to lower the the maintenance so it balances it out building a plane has a pricetag after that is the growing jet fuel or gas you need
So it's about the sacredness of work in itself.
I wish I never joined the aviation maintenance field. This sucks. You get offered crap pay, or you have to sacrifice your family and social life to work a lot of OT. Yet, my local auto body shop pays their guys $45/ hour. Smh
This is what aviation maintenance is about. Everybody eating off your plate before you even taste the food.
I'm done, a few more months and I'm walking.
@@winstonsmith6204 are you guys in the states?
Yup. I got burned the fuck out slaving jets for the Air Force sacrificing my sanity and body. Endless hours, weekends, holidays, birthdays, anniversaries. Fuck all that. After I retire, I'm not planning on touching another aircraft again.
Hello I'm watching here concepcion tarlac philippines
So can anyone here provide me an explanation of why it was hard to get a job as an aircraft mechanic during the 90’s? One of A&P instructors after he became certified in 1990 he was delivering pizza soon afterwards because he couldn’t get an AMT job? I mean what the heck happened exactly?
GARA act
Just like buying a honda the maintenance is low vs a viper or fighter pilot/ more expensive parts equals higher maintenance
employment is very difficult for ones in canada
Thank you
There is certain types of maintenance it's hard to repair a broken fighter pilot engine when you are used to maintaining commercial planes they use different engines and parts
boeing is the place to work .. they know their stuff ...
Plane type???🤔🤔🤔
200 to’300 an hour but they pay the workers 25 an hour. It’s freed from the MRO
he said per hour, not per hour per worker
BOA TARDE. SENDO ÚNICAS. O CUIDADO REALMENTE SE VERIFICA COM O TAMANHO ZELO. PARABÉNS PELA MATÉRIA TRAZIDA
Just get a 737 or a 787...they are sold in the thousands...
I never really considered those smallish Gulfstream and bombardier as being private Jets anyway
Well they are. And their performance is up there with 737s and 787s. same max ceiling, same alt. same (if not further) range, same speed capabilities. Gulfstreams can climb faster without losing as much speed energy.
Boeing BBJs are well and good. Particularly in cost (depending on what you want in a jet)
But don't bash the corporate jet market until you've walked inside a Global 7500 Express or a G650ER or a Dassault Falcon 900EX.
This might be too late fo me.
It’s a challenge because for years you treated workers like slaves. Cut pay rates. Lay offs out sourcing etc Mechanics today make what people made in the 1980’s These shops charge 100plus an hour for labor and pay the workers 25 an hour with crap benefits.