Yes there is, when the middle is between the wrong thing, and the right thing. Centrists on racism are still racist. Centrists on fur farming are still animal abusers. You are not more enlightened for being equally wrong on every decision you make.
I worked for someone that actually was one of the last federally licensed fox fur farming and he was a vet and raised dogs....he knew what the future was going to and knew it was gunna be worth the trouble and he wouldn't be able to do it were they still had good lives because of the prices.. people really dont understand and i agree with the things are changing...and the price would go up so high if they had enrichment and other stuff that exactly why he got out of it...and it was in Illinois about 10years ago
I know some fur farmers would certainly be happier about higher fur prices, lol. But not at the expense of having to spend more. I've seen a few fur farms that do provide enrichment and just use simple stuff: fresh branches cut from the property or things like pinecones (smell enrichment, chew enrichment, and generally having something new and exciting that can be a toy), dog or cat toys, or time outside their cages where they can run and play with other animals (not practical for a large farm, for sure, and for interacting with their own species or other species not practical or safe for all species or most fur farmed species past adolescence). It's definitely a tricky balance. There was one study done in 2016 that examined water basin use in mink cages using cages that were identical for the control group (no water) and different water basin groups, but it looked into the bacteria in the water (focusing on salmonella) as well as how much the mink seemed to "enjoy" the added enrichment via how often it was used (they definitely utilized the water a lot), and not the costs. [Behavioral studies on the use of open water basins by American mink (Neovison vison) published in the Journal of Veterinary Behavior Volume 13, May-June 2016, Pages 19-26]. Other studies before it of course have shown benefits to water access as well. According to an anti-fur farming group (Eurogroup for Animals) Sweden has requirements for mink to have access to various objects (pipes, balls, branches, running wheels, water baths) as enrichment, so additional enrichment can be legalized. I don't know the current stats on how well Sweden does as far as profits go since they haven't really recovered since the pandemic's harsh restrictions on mink though.
Totally agree, whilst fur farming is bad I the case that the conditions and the way they are ended is usually very poor, it's basically the same as any other farming They should definitely have better welfare though, just like good farming industries
Definitely will depend on your definition of what constitutes as "bad" standards in both types of farming, and will of course vary depending on the farm, but yeah.
My fur farmed mink coat that I bought when it was 40 years old was still going strong at 60 years old. Fur is the best for coats. If properly cared for it can last fur-ever.
I was given my grandmother's blue fox fur coat, and even though it hasn't been kept in very good conditions for maintaining fur well it's still doing great. I don't know when my grandma got it exactly, but I've had it for the last 10 or so years now. The fur isn't softly prime anymore, but I know I could easily keep wearing it with less signs of wear and tear than my faux fur lined jacket I've only worn maybe a dozen times, at most. Not my style but man none of my other jackets beat it when it comes to windy, cold, snowy winters.
Some farms will use the other parts of the animal as well, especially larger farms and mink farms. Mink oil, which is made from their body fat, is very valuable, for example. Mink meat also apparently makes good crab bait. I know of one fox fur farmer who feeds their fox carcasses to their heritage pigs, which their raise for meat. Some will just toss out the bodies though and only utilize the fur. I snagged a carcass from one such farm and have bones from another thanks to having a connection with someone who would work at a few different fur farms during pelting season. Larger farms are more likely to utilize the remainder of the animal since they have the manpower/money/means to, but of course it will vary by farm and by animal. Like on the flip side, I know a lot of people who raise meat rabbits do so for the meat but will also try to pelt out the rabbits if they can (the biggest problem being that you usually want the rabbits to be a little older for their fur than they would be slaughtered for their meat, which makes it more expensive to wait in order to get both products, and can complicate some methods of dispatching the rabbits). Personally? I think if you don't support fur farming you should avoid fur, and look into other products you use to see if they benefit from fur farming. Cosmetics, animal rescues, leather conditioners, and even things like biofuel or crop farming or fishing may utilize parts from fur farms. And fur farms also benefit from some other industries such as meat and dairy by taking product that isn't wanted/safe for human consumption, saving those industries the costs/difficulties of disposal. Buy local and small when possible to avoid supporting these industries, if that's an important thing for you, and don't be afraid to ask questions or do a lot of digging. That said, it's incredibly labor intensive and difficult, so I couldn't blame ya one bit if you don't want to put in that kind of effort ^-^;
If being rather neutral on a heated topic and buying pelts from friends who need finances makes me a bad person then yeah, I have no issues with doing things that makes you view me as a bad person. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sorry if you were expecting a different response. Or a shorter response...maybe it's the trauma, maybe it's something else, I dunno, but I'm long-winded ^-^' If you do not like me as a person I highly recommend not interacting with my videos in the future, or watching my videos at all if possible. When you interact with a video or even just watch a video TH-cam's algorithm will be more likely to show you similar content in the future. This can include other videos like mine that are neutral on fur farming, show animal remains, or are even my other videos. If you encounter one of my videos on your FYP and do not wish to see it you can click on the three dots next to the video title and click on the "Not Interested" or "Don't Recommend Channel" options. Your safest bet will be the latter. Unfortunately TH-cam doesn't really have a block feature outside of TH-cam Kids, otherwise I'd recommend doing that, but this seems to be the next best course of action. I'm sorry if my video was upsetting for you to watch. That's not the intention of my videos. This was a requested topic from multiple people who watch my videos, thus why I explained it in detail.
The only thing that matters here is whether the animals suffered less or more as they would in nature. Saying fur is good or bad apart from that is not ethics - it's more religion
In this day and age, it’s easy to forget that not all opinions have to be a strong opinion. There is nothing wrong with being in the middle.
Yes there is, when the middle is between the wrong thing, and the right thing. Centrists on racism are still racist. Centrists on fur farming are still animal abusers. You are not more enlightened for being equally wrong on every decision you make.
@@diggymgee you sound really dumb saying that....go away
I worked for someone that actually was one of the last federally licensed fox fur farming and he was a vet and raised dogs....he knew what the future was going to and knew it was gunna be worth the trouble and he wouldn't be able to do it were they still had good lives because of the prices.. people really dont understand and i agree with the things are changing...and the price would go up so high if they had enrichment and other stuff that exactly why he got out of it...and it was in Illinois about 10years ago
I know some fur farmers would certainly be happier about higher fur prices, lol. But not at the expense of having to spend more. I've seen a few fur farms that do provide enrichment and just use simple stuff: fresh branches cut from the property or things like pinecones (smell enrichment, chew enrichment, and generally having something new and exciting that can be a toy), dog or cat toys, or time outside their cages where they can run and play with other animals (not practical for a large farm, for sure, and for interacting with their own species or other species not practical or safe for all species or most fur farmed species past adolescence). It's definitely a tricky balance.
There was one study done in 2016 that examined water basin use in mink cages using cages that were identical for the control group (no water) and different water basin groups, but it looked into the bacteria in the water (focusing on salmonella) as well as how much the mink seemed to "enjoy" the added enrichment via how often it was used (they definitely utilized the water a lot), and not the costs. [Behavioral studies on the use of open water basins by American mink (Neovison vison) published in the Journal of Veterinary Behavior Volume 13, May-June 2016, Pages 19-26]. Other studies before it of course have shown benefits to water access as well. According to an anti-fur farming group (Eurogroup for Animals) Sweden has requirements for mink to have access to various objects (pipes, balls, branches, running wheels, water baths) as enrichment, so additional enrichment can be legalized. I don't know the current stats on how well Sweden does as far as profits go since they haven't really recovered since the pandemic's harsh restrictions on mink though.
Totally agree, whilst fur farming is bad I the case that the conditions and the way they are ended is usually very poor, it's basically the same as any other farming
They should definitely have better welfare though, just like good farming industries
Definitely will depend on your definition of what constitutes as "bad" standards in both types of farming, and will of course vary depending on the farm, but yeah.
My fur farmed mink coat that I bought when it was 40 years old was still going strong at 60 years old. Fur is the best for coats. If properly cared for it can last fur-ever.
I was given my grandmother's blue fox fur coat, and even though it hasn't been kept in very good conditions for maintaining fur well it's still doing great. I don't know when my grandma got it exactly, but I've had it for the last 10 or so years now. The fur isn't softly prime anymore, but I know I could easily keep wearing it with less signs of wear and tear than my faux fur lined jacket I've only worn maybe a dozen times, at most. Not my style but man none of my other jackets beat it when it comes to windy, cold, snowy winters.
No excuse for killing animals just for fur.
Some farms will use the other parts of the animal as well, especially larger farms and mink farms. Mink oil, which is made from their body fat, is very valuable, for example. Mink meat also apparently makes good crab bait. I know of one fox fur farmer who feeds their fox carcasses to their heritage pigs, which their raise for meat. Some will just toss out the bodies though and only utilize the fur. I snagged a carcass from one such farm and have bones from another thanks to having a connection with someone who would work at a few different fur farms during pelting season. Larger farms are more likely to utilize the remainder of the animal since they have the manpower/money/means to, but of course it will vary by farm and by animal. Like on the flip side, I know a lot of people who raise meat rabbits do so for the meat but will also try to pelt out the rabbits if they can (the biggest problem being that you usually want the rabbits to be a little older for their fur than they would be slaughtered for their meat, which makes it more expensive to wait in order to get both products, and can complicate some methods of dispatching the rabbits).
Personally? I think if you don't support fur farming you should avoid fur, and look into other products you use to see if they benefit from fur farming. Cosmetics, animal rescues, leather conditioners, and even things like biofuel or crop farming or fishing may utilize parts from fur farms. And fur farms also benefit from some other industries such as meat and dairy by taking product that isn't wanted/safe for human consumption, saving those industries the costs/difficulties of disposal. Buy local and small when possible to avoid supporting these industries, if that's an important thing for you, and don't be afraid to ask questions or do a lot of digging. That said, it's incredibly labor intensive and difficult, so I couldn't blame ya one bit if you don't want to put in that kind of effort ^-^;
So you're just comfortable with being a bad person. Just admit that. Stop adding so many words to it.
If being rather neutral on a heated topic and buying pelts from friends who need finances makes me a bad person then yeah, I have no issues with doing things that makes you view me as a bad person. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sorry if you were expecting a different response. Or a shorter response...maybe it's the trauma, maybe it's something else, I dunno, but I'm long-winded ^-^'
If you do not like me as a person I highly recommend not interacting with my videos in the future, or watching my videos at all if possible. When you interact with a video or even just watch a video TH-cam's algorithm will be more likely to show you similar content in the future. This can include other videos like mine that are neutral on fur farming, show animal remains, or are even my other videos. If you encounter one of my videos on your FYP and do not wish to see it you can click on the three dots next to the video title and click on the "Not Interested" or "Don't Recommend Channel" options. Your safest bet will be the latter. Unfortunately TH-cam doesn't really have a block feature outside of TH-cam Kids, otherwise I'd recommend doing that, but this seems to be the next best course of action.
I'm sorry if my video was upsetting for you to watch. That's not the intention of my videos. This was a requested topic from multiple people who watch my videos, thus why I explained it in detail.
@@wolfforce58205 tldr, too busy not killing animals for fur
The only thing that matters here is whether the animals suffered less or more as they would in nature. Saying fur is good or bad apart from that is not ethics - it's more religion
@@andersaskjrgensen5468 you are wrong and stupid. That is me being correct, and you being incorrect.