I find it hilarious that David's game is becoming what DOOM was in the 90s. Everybody wants a port for XYZ system and every programmer wants to take a crack at porting it. Just goes to show that some things don't change no matter how much time passes.
@@gab_v250 I think a port of PETSCii robots to modern machines would ultimately kill the fun in the challenge though, since modern games rely on using hardware abstraction layers (Direct X, SDL, Vulkan)
@somedeveloperblokey Exactly what are you trying to roast OP for? They only made the post because PETSCII Robots has had a remarkable number of ports despite being a non commercial game from this year thats targeted to run on machines best suited for being programmed in ASM.
Grayscale-only on the NES really does not feel right given how colorful every other game on that system was. Hopefully the maintainer of that port can figure something out!
Probably not as the NES has 16x16 color cells (which means a palette can only be given per 16x16 pixels), which cannot fit with either the 8x8 character size or the 24x24 tile size.
It seems more of an artistic limitation than a technical one-figuring out how to distribute the available four three-color (plus black) palettes among the various objects the game contains. I suppose if they were willing to use single-color tiles like most versions have, they could just pick 12 colors, distribute them at random to the four palettes, and treat them like 12 single-color palettes. But that's still three less colors than the 64 had to play with.
The NES's color attribute system only has a granularity of 2x2 tiles, which clashes with the 3x3 tile artwork of the other versions. The solution here would either be to zoom the camera out and shrink the graphics to fit in 2x2 tiles (very idomatic for the NES, but also a substantial change to the game's design), or to use the MMC5 enhancement chip (not economically viable for cartridge production, from my understanding). I hope they can figure something out, though for now the game doesn't look bad imo.
As someone else who was at that meet, I can attest, those kids were absolutely hooked on the game. It's so incredible to me watching kids feel so enthralled with such dated tech considering the world we live in now. Also insane to see how many dang ports of this there are, but super cool all the same. One thing we lost along the way was seeing the way developers adapted their games to work on so many fundamentally different kinds of hardware and this gives us a taste of that again. I feel like as I acquire hardware it's going to become tradition for me to buy this game on whatever I have that it's on, haha. EDIT: So I guess an addendum I'd like to add, I definitely agree that gameplay comes first, and even as a kid I never was a big "latest and greatest" type of person (I played the heck out of Namco arcade games as a kid and some of my favorite games I played on then-contemporary consoles were compilations of old games), but I also chalk that up to my very past-driven personality. I generally consider myself able to put myself back in the time period of when things came out and think about the context and I've impressed a lot of people with my ability to appreciate things they grew up on, even when I wasn't there. However, I also am unique in that regard and a lot of people aren't like that, so that's why I love it so much when I see kids that young so enticed by things like this, and when I talk about "the world we live in now", we live in a world where we have extremely powerful computers in our pockets at all times and everything prior can easily look super primitive by comparison to a young child who doesn't know any different. That's not the kid's fault of course, it's just their context is so much different so I just think it's even cooler that they can be so hooked on something like that, and the fact that it's a strongly made game is definitely a big help there.
I personally think that the “dated tech” forced David to make the game fun to play first and foremost. With those kids being enthralled with the game, I’d say he succeeded!
It's all in how you bring them up. My 3 year old asks for Mario 2 (since we beat SMB together) and Snake Rattle n Roll (the snake game, he says) He'll be playing Petscii robots soon enough on the NES ;)
Waiting for Bill Herd's reaction. It must be very pleasing for him to see that there will be dedicated ports for his two machines: the Plus4 and the C128. And seeing (and hearing) a port for "my" Amiga 500 is simply awesome!
Dual monitor setup on the C128 with working games would literally have blown my mind as a kid. I remember my step brother having a C128 and every time I visited him I spent the whole time in-front of that computer.
@@Dedicatedtolivinginthepast it's likely more probable with the Family BASIC keyboard. in fact, the NES version could probably support it, since both the JP Famicom and the USA NES can have the keyboard plug into it (the NES needs an adapter, though)
I know it's drifting further and further away from using the pet character set, but the Amiga version would look really nice with a smooth scrolling option.
I see more of a proof the C128 was a disaster to work with. Expanded VDP graphics? Let's do C64 graphics on a downclocked 6510.... The hardware design of a C128 is very weird. It was the dead end of 8-bit Commodores. But the software was not much better either. Basic 7.0 sounds like you get something out of this world, yet it was among the worst BASIC variations out there. Even iOS has more improvement between versions. The C128 looks awesome, but next to a CPC or MSX2 it was irrelevant.
Hi from Germany. It is so great to see how detailed you get on your ports like using the second screen on the C128. It is so stunning what neglected platforms can actually do. I never thought a stock 128 game could be so much better looking than a 64 game. I always thought you could not utilise any advantages as the chips are virtually the same.
IMO you really have to bite the apple and start coding for the native C128 mode in order to understand the advantages. Ever for a C128 owner, the benefits may seem negligible, but when you start coding, you discover the C128 is really quite a bit more powerful.
More RAM, extra video display, even something as mundane as the 128 MMU to help manage all that memory became very important in copying the data as quickly as possible.
This is exciting news. I am so glad to see the proliferation of Petscii Robots. It is amazing how it has gone from being a game you decided to make for the PET after you built TFW8bit PET Mini. I love how the community of retro enthusiasts inspire and support each other like this. It gives me a lot of warm fuzzies. Thanks so much for this!
Thanks for detailing the mods on the C128. A always figured it was totally underutilized. Andddddd ordered! Will now have to make room on my desk to set my 1701 next to my 1902 so I can dual screen this!
I have the BMC128 Vice port running on a raspberry pi, and it shows both 40 & 80 column screens on an HDTV. I've been thinking it would be cool to make a device that had inputs for both 40 & 80 column screens, merge them into one HDTV signal, and send that on to an HDTV.
@@JoSephGD Genesis and Amiga use 68000-class CPUs if I recall, which are derived from the Motorola 6800, which the 6502 is very close in architecture. So porting code could be worse.
You should definitely ask Jon Burton of GameHut for Genesis tips and tricks, he's like a Genesis wizard, considering what Traveller's Tales games did on it back in the day.
The amiga port looks incredible! Love these 8-bit games, glad there's been a resurgence of game development to emulate the 8-bit gaming experience, but working directly on the 8-bit systems is awesome!
Funny term, that "8-bit" though. Sure it's a meme today, and probably impossible to change. But it would have been more natural to call it 16-bit. Because you are never limited to just eight bits in those computers, while their adressing is most often limited to 16 bits, which is pretty cumbersome to get around (with hardware bank swiching, segments, or similar).
@@herrbonk3635 Well, yes, the Amiga was/is 16-bit. This game, however, was originally developed for the Pet, which, from my understanding is fully an 8-bit system. Hence the 8-bit game part. The systems in this video were a mixture of 8-bit and 16-bit systems, so me saying 'working directly on the 8-bit systems' is inaccurate. What I meant was machines from the era, as opposed to in an emulator.
@@wallypop86 I think you miss my point here. The Pet was also 16-bit in this sense (i.e. addressing). The original Amiga has 24-bit adressing so it is a 24-bit machine in the meaning that most so called "8-bit systems" are really 16-bit (i.e. limited to 16-bit, not 8). But you can choose to focus on other aspects: The 68000 is often called a 32-bit CPU, as it has 32-bit registers and 32-bit instructions. Others may find its 16-bit databus, 16-bit ALU, or 16-bit internal buses and microarchitecture more important. The famous Z80 may be another example. It has several 16-bit registers and (unlike the 6502) also some 16-bit instructions. But it uses a 4-bit ALU to perform most of this. So it's both 4-bit, 8-bit and 16-bit depending on your viewpoint. At the same time, it can be programmed to do 32-bit arithmetics or more (say 53 bits, needed for double precision floating point). So it's not in any way limited to 8/16-bit arithmetic just because its instructions work on eight or 16 bits at the time. It's much more limited by its 16-bit adressing. That was my point.
@@herrbonk3635 hmmm. CD sound is “16 bit” but years ago there were “1-bit”’cd players (the way the DAC processed was new/different but I can’t recall the details). You want a memory map that’s 8-bit? Okay so the Atari 2600 RAM space (ignore ROM for now) has you covered! Only 128 bytes! You can have a whopping 256 bytes when counting on an 8-bit address bus. So the 2600’s RAM does it in half of that! The “ST” line of Atari computers was named for the Sixteen/Thirtytwo nature of the 68000 if I’m to believe the history I’m reading these days. I did not see that back in the day but maybe I missed an issue of a magazine that covered that detail (like the announcement or hands on report at CES back in 1985). In the sense that I would not call the Intel 8088 an 8-bit cpu due to the budget bus (the ISA is the same as the 16-bit 8086 if you’ll grant me the notion that the 8086 is “16-bit”) I would not call the 68000 or even the 68008 16-bit or 8-bit (respectively). They just aren’t fully 32-bit implementations of a 32-bit ISA. It operates on 32 bit values. Not tricks needed. The 6502 accumulator is 8-bit and you need to DIY 16 number manipulation with several instruction fetches. This only goes to show how NOT neat and tidy our oversimplified descriptions are. 🤯
@@herrbonk3635 That's not the normal way people refer to the "bitness" of a CPU or computer system. Most commonly people refer to the number of bits as the width of the *data* bus or (slightly less common) the instruction set. Using the address bus size is the least common way to do it.
Anyone else thinks the C=128 in the thumbnail is pretty sexy? Sorry guys, but the C=128 is one of the best-looking 8-bit 6502 computers designed. Designed in the era of the Amiga 1000. And even the C=128D is a serious looking 8-bit computer. The Apple IIgs is also nice, for a box with two lights on it.
I quite like the weird greyscale colouring for the NES, has a striking look. Thank you for making a proper 128 game, and thank you for taking advantage of the dual monitor ability.
I have never been more hype for any other game release. Absolutely insane. The NES, SNES, and Genesis versions are the ones I am most excited for. I actually have an NES so I could get a cartridge of the game! This is wild!!
I haven't bought much in the way of software for my retro computers and only on digital media until today. I bought the C128 physical disk. I look forward to something other than BASIC for C128 mode.
I wish that too. Unfortunately, videos like this take about fifty hours or more to put together and require video editing and public speaking skills that a lot of us lack.
Very cool - will def have to order a C128 copy. Even back in the day I don't think I ever had a C128 specific game - just some C128 specific productivity software.
The Amiga port looks gorgeous! Can't beat pixel perfect art! Also this is proof that graphics don't always matter. Well done David! Congratulations to the rest of the artists and community!
What amazing work you guys are doing. I always thought the C128 could do so much more and I'm glad its finally being shown. Really wanted a c128 when I was younger but my c64 kept me entertained for a LONG time.
That C128 looks really-really sweet, the dual monitor is genious! When I saw the image of the Amiga 500 I said it out loud "That's still a beautiful machine!" even though I'm home alone and no one was able to hear me. I have a soft spot for the Amiga 500 in my heart still. Damn, seeing all these versions makes hyped that I feel like I need to rush out and buy all the versions. I have a C64, an Amiga 500, NES and SNES but I really don't need them. But my collecting mindset kicked it :)
Simply came here to congratulate you on this game. Currently playing through on my Evercade and it’s in my top 5 games for sure. The music is sublime. Thank you!
So, being a crazy 128 developer myself, I'm curious what you mean by "using the MMU for faster block copies" -- it doesn't provide DMA, of course, so what did you mean? The port is freaking amazing, so huge props to Scott Robison, and congrats to you, too, David, for achieving so much success with this game! :D
The MMU can remap the zero page and stack anywhere in memory. So remap the stack, set the stack pointer to where you want to copy and then repeatedly do PHA. Takes only 3 cycles and auto-increments the stack pointer.
@@danielmantione Oho! I wouldn't have even thought of using the stack as a block transfer mechanism that way, but in retrospect, that's an amazing technique! Thanks for the explanation!
Scott Robison here. I put up a video about the game ... not as good as David's but in part of it I do explain with a visual aid how I can move pages around, copy them, and then put them back so the system can continue. th-cam.com/video/ri6YrCrJBkw/w-d-xo.html takes you to the beginning of that section if interested. I wouldn't turn down an extra view of the whole thing either. :) To summarize though: Normally you'd have to do this in a loop using absolute indexed addressing to LDA then again to STA. I relocate ZP to the source material then use LDA zp,X to load a byte. The stack was relocated to the correct page of the bitmap space and instead of STA I use PHA. What was an 11 cycle process per byte becomes a 7 cycle process.
11:22: We should probably note here that CGA brown was a function of the monitor, so if you didn't have a CGA- or more specifically IBM 5153 monitor-compatible RGBI display that reduced the green component on dark yellow to make brown, then you would have gotten a much more sickly greenish yellow hue there. Use CGA-compatible colours, get CGA-compatible problems. ;-)
I read about your game in an article in the german magazine "return". It's interesting that there also new games for the commodore vic 20. Impressiv is, that more ports came/will come. I love the retro community! So many amazing people.
Can’t wait to see this become ported to more systems than Skyrim! Just holding out on AOTPR for smart fridge lol. In all seriousness, I got the apple II version and love it, and am so glad to see the success this game is having across the retro community.
Maybe I'm just a purist but I'm not so keen on the Amiga/C128 "improved" versions. What I love about the creation of this game was the fact that it used the PETSCII character set - those same little characters that I made so many pictures with when I was 10.
That's a reasonable point, but I think David was clear in earlier videos that it was about making the best use of the resources available on the hardware for PET, so it makes sense that more capable machines would get more capable ports. But at least the C64 version does support PET mode, and the C128 supports the C64!
Fascinating stuff. So nostalgic. This game would have been a huge hit if released early back in the day. Great to see how it’s developed in all the different platform ports. Would be great to have better Atari 8-bit version up to the c64 std.
The Atari 8-bit was released in 1979, and the C=64 in 1983, so naturally the Commodore was slightly more technologically advanced (better sound generator for example). So to expect the game to be up to the same standard is kind of wishful thinking. Sorry, just facts.
I bet he could do a super lazy/awesome version where it's actually just basically a digital only release with an emulator but you can pick or choose which version you're going to get. It works out as a win for both sides since there's absolutely no hardware or packaging involved cutting cost, and as a PC player you can more directly see what differences each platform has.
@@Seven71987 that's a development cost thing. Not saying impossible, but all of the ports outside of the original are done by 3rd party people. If there is someone who's immediately like "oooh! DOS!" and actually goes ahead and makes that version, awesome. But I'm just saying right now there's a 0 effort way for modern PCs to have a ton of awesome options
LOL, a game that was actually TITLED to match the single port that it was intended for (Commadore PET) that is probably now the most properly multi ported game in all of human history, LMAO.
Well.. the original wasn’t a “port”. Right? But “PETSCII” is applicable to the vast array of CBM machines (e.g. VIC-20, C64, C128, TED machines, but NOT the Amiga). And the PET only had characters for graphics so that’s the foundation of the game. But I get what you’re saying.
When you release the Super Nintendo version, will it be on a cartridge that fits the EU and us version? I have A Super Famicom and you can make cartridges that fit both the US and Super Famicom so I am wondering if it will release on that type of cartridge.
woah the genesis art style looks so cool. Im glad so many people have had their artistic touches added in. Still very much your game, but a nice change for all the versions to keep it interesting.
Do you think this might see release on Nintendo Switch? If somebody wrapped the NES, Genesis, or SNES version in an emulator it would be really awesome to have in a handheld
@@Chaos89P If somebody does port the core engine to Z80 then I think that the ideal home computer target would be the Amstrad CPC, and a Sega mastersystem port to show how underappreciated it was compared to the NES :)
@@Chaos89P it's a z80 machine with a bitmap frame buffer. Less colour restrictions than a c64, and arguably a better palette. Doesn't have much to help with scrolling, no sprites and no tile mode so it's at a disadvantage for fast smooth scrolling games but I think petscii robots plays to the advantages of the system. Also has the same screen resolution as the c64, which should help. If memory is an issue there's always the 6128...
The 128 VDC colour mode is called VDC-M. I trust it is also using 2mhz in the borders and the bitmap copy is done using the stack to push the data and ZP to read it.
We did not use 2 MHz in the borders. We tried, it wasn't stable, so we put that on the back burner to revisit later if we needed it. We decided it was adequate as is.
@@oziphantom9465 It should not have been that, but it was something. We used the raster interrupt to judge when to turn on 2 MHz, and another raster interrupt to switch back to 1 MHz. That is a maskable interrupt, and I set the interrupt disable bit when I relocate zp & the stack, then re-enable after I move them back. Note that I'm using the same technique to achieve PAL compatibility by using a timer interrupt, and it would just as easily trash data. The fact that it isn't trashing data tells me there was something more to it. In the end, it wasn't absolutely necessary, so I can save it for another game in the future.
It would be great to have an smooth scrolling in the map on SNES and ports that can support it. Also, do it have a digital version? I have an snes cartridge with SD slot, only needing the rom file
I dont like the transparency of the HUD... gets in the way of things... rather have an indepentent still frame for the menu so you can see everything you are supposed to see without obstructions from the weapon, health, etc.
@DanTDMJace For paper tape, I'm trying to recall if an ASR-33 Teletype supports an RS-232 serial interface or only something like a 20-milliamp current loop. I know the Apple ][ supports RS-232. Back in the day, there were paper tape readers and punches on S-100 bus microcomputers as well as the Heath H-8. But I'm not sure about the availability of card readers and punches.
DUAL monitor on C128….Insane!! Commodore must have forgotten about this USP ! Amazing job !!! Now ofcourse we need to see an Playstation 5 version :))))
I think with the "Doomguy" style face in the corner getting more and more bloody, it would be nice if it could turn it off. Somewhere, there is some dad who plays with old computers and wants to have his kids play this game but is concerned because this small detail would make several rating systems around the world give the game an 18+ rating. ...or you know, some people don't like blood.
Man. That's just really cool. You wrote a simple game, and it's now been ported to so many systems. Such love and effort being shown, that's amazing! I would definitely want to get my hands an SNES version!
💪😁🔥🔥🔥 Your channel is amazing! You are doing extremely good work! And the best confiration of that is the fact you have so many subscribers! I am "chasing" your result, but as for now my result is modest... very modest...
@@The8BitGuy you can still do tile based walking and spacing but scroll the tiles from one to the next smoothly. Smooth scrolling was a signature Amiga game trait and games without it (ports) tended to look janky back in the day. The terminal and text editors o used on Amiga (character based layouts apps) used smooth scrolling and were magnificent. I still miss that today in so many apps in macOS.
It would be better to do it on the arcade version of the hardware since you have much more memory and a pattern board(blitter) but there would be a lot of issues porting it over to the Astrocade since you have only 4k which would be mostly for the screen. It would require a RAM upgrade, which could be done at the back edge connector.
Congratulations on the success of PETSCII Robots! I'm so happy how many people are enjoying the game including kids! I'm quite excited about the SNES port and I did see an MS-DOS port. That would open up the game to many users! Once it's on every console known to man, people will now say, "Yeah, but can your printer PETSCII?"
I find it hilarious that David's game is becoming what DOOM was in the 90s. Everybody wants a port for XYZ system and every programmer wants to take a crack at porting it. Just goes to show that some things don't change no matter how much time passes.
now I can't wait for an official release on modern systems /S
jk but seriously, his games could get more traction if sold on Steam.
@@gab_v250
I think a port of PETSCii robots to modern machines would ultimately kill the fun in the challenge though, since modern games rely on using hardware abstraction layers (Direct X, SDL, Vulkan)
@@paulgraves1392 True. To play it on your modern machine just use an emulator.
Except now it has lots of more merit, since the market for the machines involved is so much smaller.
@somedeveloperblokey
Exactly what are you trying to roast OP for? They only made the post because PETSCII Robots has had a remarkable number of ports despite being a non commercial game from this year thats targeted to run on machines best suited for being programmed in ASM.
This game being ported to every system is a testament to the dedicated community that you have, David. Congrats on all your success :)
can i pay $250.00 USD + shipping for a master box set of all ports?
This game is new Doom
Doom of the Commodore
Genius man. Imagine you had an old computer but worried it has no games. Guess what things have changed
Can an iPod run Attack of the PETSCII Robots?
Grayscale-only on the NES really does not feel right given how colorful every other game on that system was. Hopefully the maintainer of that port can figure something out!
Probably not as the NES has 16x16 color cells (which means a palette can only be given per 16x16 pixels), which cannot fit with either the 8x8 character size or the 24x24 tile size.
I'm a little puzzled by this myself.
But I think it looks good in a sense.
It seems more of an artistic limitation than a technical one-figuring out how to distribute the available four three-color (plus black) palettes among the various objects the game contains. I suppose if they were willing to use single-color tiles like most versions have, they could just pick 12 colors, distribute them at random to the four palettes, and treat them like 12 single-color palettes. But that's still three less colors than the 64 had to play with.
The NES's color attribute system only has a granularity of 2x2 tiles, which clashes with the 3x3 tile artwork of the other versions. The solution here would either be to zoom the camera out and shrink the graphics to fit in 2x2 tiles (very idomatic for the NES, but also a substantial change to the game's design), or to use the MMC5 enhancement chip (not economically viable for cartridge production, from my understanding).
I hope they can figure something out, though for now the game doesn't look bad imo.
It's so cool to see a game challenge doom for "how many platforms you can play it on"
Keep up the good work
"La Abadía del Crimen": Hold my "The name of the Rose" basis.
2021:it runs doom
2022:it runs Petscii Robots
We need a Rockbox port... and a toaster port.
Petscii robots on Gameboy Advance when?
@Mayravixx Petscii on GBA multiboot when?
As someone else who was at that meet, I can attest, those kids were absolutely hooked on the game. It's so incredible to me watching kids feel so enthralled with such dated tech considering the world we live in now.
Also insane to see how many dang ports of this there are, but super cool all the same. One thing we lost along the way was seeing the way developers adapted their games to work on so many fundamentally different kinds of hardware and this gives us a taste of that again. I feel like as I acquire hardware it's going to become tradition for me to buy this game on whatever I have that it's on, haha.
EDIT: So I guess an addendum I'd like to add, I definitely agree that gameplay comes first, and even as a kid I never was a big "latest and greatest" type of person (I played the heck out of Namco arcade games as a kid and some of my favorite games I played on then-contemporary consoles were compilations of old games), but I also chalk that up to my very past-driven personality. I generally consider myself able to put myself back in the time period of when things came out and think about the context and I've impressed a lot of people with my ability to appreciate things they grew up on, even when I wasn't there. However, I also am unique in that regard and a lot of people aren't like that, so that's why I love it so much when I see kids that young so enticed by things like this, and when I talk about "the world we live in now", we live in a world where we have extremely powerful computers in our pockets at all times and everything prior can easily look super primitive by comparison to a young child who doesn't know any different. That's not the kid's fault of course, it's just their context is so much different so I just think it's even cooler that they can be so hooked on something like that, and the fact that it's a strongly made game is definitely a big help there.
I personally think that the “dated tech” forced David to make the game fun to play first and foremost. With those kids being enthralled with the game, I’d say he succeeded!
Goes to show that it's gameplay, not graphics, that make a game engaging. Tetris' enduring appeal is proof of that too.
Yeah, it's a real surprise children *that* young are hooked on that game.
It's all in how you bring them up. My 3 year old asks for Mario 2 (since we beat SMB together) and Snake Rattle n Roll (the snake game, he says)
He'll be playing Petscii robots soon enough on the NES ;)
@@edmund-osborne Or chess, scrabble, table tennis, improvising music, and so on.
Waiting for Bill Herd's reaction. It must be very pleasing for him to see that there will be dedicated ports for his two machines: the Plus4 and the C128. And seeing (and hearing) a port for "my" Amiga 500 is simply awesome!
I never thought about getting Bil Herd's reaction. I hope the C128 port impresses him, that would make my day ... month ... year ... whatever! :)
Dual monitor setup on the C128 with working games would literally have blown my mind as a kid. I remember my step brother having a C128 and every time I visited him I spent the whole time in-front of that computer.
Now that you have it working on SNES you need to make a Commodore keyboard adapter for the SNES controller port!
Maybe for the C128D keyboard?
Yea sure!
@@Dedicatedtolivinginthepast it's likely more probable with the Family BASIC keyboard. in fact, the NES version could probably support it, since both the JP Famicom and the USA NES can have the keyboard plug into it (the NES needs an adapter, though)
Yeah! How did I not realize that could work perfectly! At least on Famicom
"What modification did you do to allow this C-128 to use two monitors?"
"I plugged in a second monitor."
I know it's drifting further and further away from using the pet character set, but the Amiga version would look really nice with a smooth scrolling option.
Really glad to see a C128 version! There is a massive lack of software for that platform, which is a shame because it's capable of some neat things.
It’s fantastic! Miss my 128, it needs a comeback.
I see more of a proof the C128 was a disaster to work with. Expanded VDP graphics? Let's do C64 graphics on a downclocked 6510.... The hardware design of a C128 is very weird. It was the dead end of 8-bit Commodores. But the software was not much better either. Basic 7.0 sounds like you get something out of this world, yet it was among the worst BASIC variations out there. Even iOS has more improvement between versions. The C128 looks awesome, but next to a CPC or MSX2 it was irrelevant.
I've said it before, but it's worth saying again...you have the best intro music on all of TH-cam.
its a delight to see the retro homebrew community being so alive. great inspiration for everyone! keep it up!
R.I.P. Scott Robinson. Thanks for the C128 port.
Hi from Germany. It is so great to see how detailed you get on your ports like using the second screen on the C128. It is so stunning what neglected platforms can actually do. I never thought a stock 128 game could be so much better looking than a 64 game. I always thought you could not utilise any advantages as the chips are virtually the same.
IMO you really have to bite the apple and start coding for the native C128 mode in order to understand the advantages. Ever for a C128 owner, the benefits may seem negligible, but when you start coding, you discover the C128 is really quite a bit more powerful.
More RAM is always better.
More RAM, extra video display, even something as mundane as the 128 MMU to help manage all that memory became very important in copying the data as quickly as possible.
This is exciting news. I am so glad to see the proliferation of Petscii Robots. It is amazing how it has gone from being a game you decided to make for the PET after you built TFW8bit PET Mini. I love how the community of retro enthusiasts inspire and support each other like this. It gives me a lot of warm fuzzies. Thanks so much for this!
Thanks for detailing the mods on the C128. A always figured it was totally underutilized. Andddddd ordered! Will now have to make room on my desk to set my 1701 next to my 1902 so I can dual screen this!
I have the BMC128 Vice port running on a raspberry pi, and it shows both 40 & 80 column screens on an HDTV. I've been thinking it would be cool to make a device that had inputs for both 40 & 80 column screens, merge them into one HDTV signal, and send that on to an HDTV.
As a Finn myself, I was not surprised at all that the Amiga version is being developed by a Finn.
A lot of free time over the long winters?
Too bad his name was typo'd in the video though
@@KOPFJE Subtitles had the correct spelling.
How come?
Regards,
Sweden
@@jockeberg4089 For the same reason that you wouldn't be surprised if it was being developed by a Swede.
this is the new "can it run doom" of the 6502 family lmao
@Wotzinator Genesis and Amiga aren't 6502.
@@JoSephGD Genesis and Amiga use 68000-class CPUs if I recall, which are derived from the Motorola 6800, which the 6502 is very close in architecture. So porting code could be worse.
@@alhuno1 ti89 titanium port when?
@@abhimaanmayadam5713 Spectrum port when?
@@alhuno1 Isn't the Motorola 68000 the same CPU that early macs used?
You should definitely ask Jon Burton of GameHut for Genesis tips and tricks, he's like a Genesis wizard, considering what Traveller's Tales games did on it back in the day.
The amiga port looks incredible! Love these 8-bit games, glad there's been a resurgence of game development to emulate the 8-bit gaming experience, but working directly on the 8-bit systems is awesome!
Funny term, that "8-bit" though. Sure it's a meme today, and probably impossible to change. But it would have been more natural to call it 16-bit. Because you are never limited to just eight bits in those computers, while their adressing is most often limited to 16 bits, which is pretty cumbersome to get around (with hardware bank swiching, segments, or similar).
@@herrbonk3635 Well, yes, the Amiga was/is 16-bit. This game, however, was originally developed for the Pet, which, from my understanding is fully an 8-bit system. Hence the 8-bit game part. The systems in this video were a mixture of 8-bit and 16-bit systems, so me saying 'working directly on the 8-bit systems' is inaccurate. What I meant was machines from the era, as opposed to in an emulator.
@@wallypop86 I think you miss my point here. The Pet was also 16-bit in this sense (i.e. addressing). The original Amiga has 24-bit adressing so it is a 24-bit machine in the meaning that most so called "8-bit systems" are really 16-bit (i.e. limited to 16-bit, not 8).
But you can choose to focus on other aspects: The 68000 is often called a 32-bit CPU, as it has 32-bit registers and 32-bit instructions. Others may find its 16-bit databus, 16-bit ALU, or 16-bit internal buses and microarchitecture more important.
The famous Z80 may be another example. It has several 16-bit registers and (unlike the 6502) also some 16-bit instructions. But it uses a 4-bit ALU to perform most of this. So it's both 4-bit, 8-bit and 16-bit depending on your viewpoint. At the same time, it can be programmed to do 32-bit arithmetics or more (say 53 bits, needed for double precision floating point). So it's not in any way limited to 8/16-bit arithmetic just because its instructions work on eight or 16 bits at the time. It's much more limited by its 16-bit adressing. That was my point.
@@herrbonk3635 hmmm. CD sound is “16 bit” but years ago there were “1-bit”’cd players (the way the DAC processed was new/different but I can’t recall the details).
You want a memory map that’s 8-bit? Okay so the Atari 2600 RAM space (ignore ROM for now) has you covered! Only 128 bytes! You can have a whopping 256 bytes when counting on an 8-bit address bus. So the 2600’s RAM does it in half of that!
The “ST” line of Atari computers was named for the Sixteen/Thirtytwo nature of the 68000 if I’m to believe the history I’m reading these days. I did not see that back in the day but maybe I missed an issue of a magazine that covered that detail (like the announcement or hands on report at CES back in 1985).
In the sense that I would not call the Intel 8088 an 8-bit cpu due to the budget bus (the ISA is the same as the 16-bit 8086 if you’ll grant me the notion that the 8086 is “16-bit”) I would not call the 68000 or even the 68008 16-bit or 8-bit (respectively). They just aren’t fully 32-bit implementations of a 32-bit ISA. It operates on 32 bit values. Not tricks needed. The 6502 accumulator is 8-bit and you need to DIY 16 number manipulation with several instruction fetches.
This only goes to show how NOT neat and tidy our oversimplified descriptions are. 🤯
@@herrbonk3635 That's not the normal way people refer to the "bitness" of a CPU or computer system. Most commonly people refer to the number of bits as the width of the *data* bus or (slightly less common) the instruction set. Using the address bus size is the least common way to do it.
Crazy to think that the first PETSCII Robots video was over a year ago.
Keep up the great work, David!
Anyone else thinks the C=128 in the thumbnail is pretty sexy? Sorry guys, but the C=128 is one of the best-looking 8-bit 6502 computers designed. Designed in the era of the Amiga 1000.
And even the C=128D is a serious looking 8-bit computer. The Apple IIgs is also nice, for a box with two lights on it.
I quite like the weird greyscale colouring for the NES, has a striking look. Thank you for making a proper 128 game, and thank you for taking advantage of the dual monitor ability.
I have never been more hype for any other game release. Absolutely insane. The NES, SNES, and Genesis versions are the ones I am most excited for. I actually have an NES so I could get a cartridge of the game! This is wild!!
I haven't bought much in the way of software for my retro computers and only on digital media until today. I bought the C128 physical disk. I look forward to something other than BASIC for C128 mode.
Thank you for your support! :)
Damn, the Amiga version blew me away. Beautiful.
14:14 Ok this was so cute seeing this 2 kids just having fun with this ancient comuputer
This is so interesting - I wish more independent developers would post the ins and outs of the process like this.
I wish that too. Unfortunately, videos like this take about fifty hours or more to put together and require video editing and public speaking skills that a lot of us lack.
Kudos to all the coders doing these, awesome, ports! I definitely will purchase the Amiga version!
not gonna lie, I'd love to play the SNES version.
Very cool - will def have to order a C128 copy. Even back in the day I don't think I ever had a C128 specific game - just some C128 specific productivity software.
Great to see a real 128 game !!! Thanks you.
I think the whole retro community owes you a solid. Its people like you really carrying the torch and keeping our beloved old computers relevant.
The Amiga port looks gorgeous! Can't beat pixel perfect art!
Also this is proof that graphics don't always matter.
Well done David! Congratulations to the rest of the artists and community!
What I find most notable is the community that grows around your games! What a wonderful achievement!
Before: Can it run DOOM?
Now: Can it run Petscii Robots?
What amazing work you guys are doing. I always thought the C128 could do so much more and I'm glad its finally being shown. Really wanted a c128 when I was younger but my c64 kept me entertained for a LONG time.
That C128 looks really-really sweet, the dual monitor is genious!
When I saw the image of the Amiga 500 I said it out loud "That's still a beautiful machine!" even though I'm home alone and no one was able to hear me. I have a soft spot for the Amiga 500 in my heart still.
Damn, seeing all these versions makes hyped that I feel like I need to rush out and buy all the versions. I have a C64, an Amiga 500, NES and SNES but I really don't need them. But my collecting mindset kicked it :)
Bil Herd I am sure would agree with your positive assessment of the 128's capabilities. Awesome work!
Wow that c128 version. Much like! :)
That C128 monochrome map gives me the horn.
The NES version I am most excited for as I am a huge NES fan.
Simply came here to congratulate you on this game. Currently playing through on my Evercade and it’s in my top 5 games for sure. The music is sublime. Thank you!
So, being a crazy 128 developer myself, I'm curious what you mean by "using the MMU for faster block copies" -- it doesn't provide DMA, of course, so what did you mean? The port is freaking amazing, so huge props to Scott Robison, and congrats to you, too, David, for achieving so much success with this game! :D
The MMU can remap the zero page and stack anywhere in memory. So remap the stack, set the stack pointer to where you want to copy and then repeatedly do PHA. Takes only 3 cycles and auto-increments the stack pointer.
I like your C128 videos.
@@danielmantione Oho! I wouldn't have even thought of using the stack as a block transfer mechanism that way, but in retrospect, that's an amazing technique! Thanks for the explanation!
@@danielmantione Thanks! More coming in December!
Scott Robison here. I put up a video about the game ... not as good as David's but in part of it I do explain with a visual aid how I can move pages around, copy them, and then put them back so the system can continue. th-cam.com/video/ri6YrCrJBkw/w-d-xo.html takes you to the beginning of that section if interested. I wouldn't turn down an extra view of the whole thing either. :)
To summarize though: Normally you'd have to do this in a loop using absolute indexed addressing to LDA then again to STA. I relocate ZP to the source material then use LDA zp,X to load a byte. The stack was relocated to the correct page of the bitmap space and instead of STA I use PHA. What was an 11 cycle process per byte becomes a 7 cycle process.
Every time I see a new vid I'm reminded I need to get a fully functioning C128 again, somewhere, somehow.
Doom: I’m the game with the most ports
Pettscii Robots: hold my beer
I hope y'all haven't forgotten about Lemmings
We need a PETSCII Robot mod for Skyrim.
TI 83 version when?
Waiting for the day someone makes a working PETSCII Robots port inside Minecraft.
Petscii for Sony Mavica please
Looks amazing David. Who could've imagined that well into the 21st century people would still be developing games for these old machines!
Wow, never knew the 128 could use two monitors
Not only that, but the 80 column monitor is even controllable in c64 mode
I really enjoy hearing about the challenges presented by each platform and the ways you overcame them. Thanks for your commitment, David!
I hadn't played the c64 version yet on my c128, I'm so glad I waited, can't wait to try the full c128 version!
11:22: We should probably note here that CGA brown was a function of the monitor, so if you didn't have a CGA- or more specifically IBM 5153 monitor-compatible RGBI display that reduced the green component on dark yellow to make brown, then you would have gotten a much more sickly greenish yellow hue there. Use CGA-compatible colours, get CGA-compatible problems. ;-)
I'm very excited about the Sega Genesis version! It looks fantastic even in a very early stage!
Now, should I dream about a Sega Saturn port too?
I read about your game in an article in the german magazine "return". It's interesting that there also new games for the commodore vic 20. Impressiv is, that more ports came/will come. I love the retro community! So many amazing people.
The Amiga has so much power compared to some of the others... pretty cool. Just out of curiosity, anyone working on an Atari ST port?
I’d think an ST port would be fairly easy to do considering it’s so similar to the Amiga.
@@GregsGameRoom the graphics would be different but all the core routines should be the same (same processor).
Incredible to have that many people step up to tackle it as a challenge. Really cool to see ports for these systems!
Can’t wait to see this become ported to more systems than Skyrim! Just holding out on AOTPR for smart fridge lol. In all seriousness, I got the apple II version and love it, and am so glad to see the success this game is having across the retro community.
I love seeing the progress of this game. Thanks to all who are working the ports. Keep up the great work everyone.
Maybe I'm just a purist but I'm not so keen on the Amiga/C128 "improved" versions. What I love about the creation of this game was the fact that it used the PETSCII character set - those same little characters that I made so many pictures with when I was 10.
That's a reasonable point, but I think David was clear in earlier videos that it was about making the best use of the resources available on the hardware for PET, so it makes sense that more capable machines would get more capable ports. But at least the C64 version does support PET mode, and the C128 supports the C64!
its so cool that this all started as a game for the pet
C128 graphics are gorgeous! 😀
Yes!!!!!!! C128 version looks amazing. The C128 my all time favorite 8 bit. Love the use of the 2nd Screen. Ordering now! can't wait to play this.
Tbh that C128 rough draft of the "slow" graphics looks playable to me.
Same. But there was a noticeable difference in the optimized version.
I love these videos about Petscii Robots and all the system conversions. Cudos to you and your community of collaborators. 👍
Kudos.
Fascinating stuff. So nostalgic. This game would have been a huge hit if released early back in the day. Great to see how it’s developed in all the different platform ports. Would be great to have better Atari 8-bit version up to the c64 std.
The Atari 8-bit was released in 1979, and the C=64 in 1983, so naturally the Commodore was slightly more technologically advanced (better sound generator for example). So to expect the game to be up to the same standard is kind of wishful thinking. Sorry, just facts.
You are getting so many versions of this, we are going to need a catalog to keep up! Sending you an SASE.
why
Definitely excited for the Genesis version. Can't wait until it's available! Will there be a DOS/Windows version?
I bet he could do a super lazy/awesome version where it's actually just basically a digital only release with an emulator but you can pick or choose which version you're going to get. It works out as a win for both sides since there's absolutely no hardware or packaging involved cutting cost, and as a PC player you can more directly see what differences each platform has.
@@DasGanon Waiting for release on Steam or GOG BABY!!!
I rally hope so. would love to see it running on my 8088
What about PC with Adlib, Master System and Turbografx16?
@@Seven71987 that's a development cost thing. Not saying impossible, but all of the ports outside of the original are done by 3rd party people. If there is someone who's immediately like "oooh! DOS!" and actually goes ahead and makes that version, awesome. But I'm just saying right now there's a 0 effort way for modern PCs to have a ton of awesome options
Dude!! Petcii Robots is getting big!! I can't believe how many platforms are working/being worked on! That's awesome!
LOL, a game that was actually TITLED to match the single port that it was intended for (Commadore PET) that is probably now the most properly multi ported game in all of human history, LMAO.
I wonder if some of those ports could be given their own accurately punny titles...
Well.. the original wasn’t a “port”. Right? But “PETSCII” is applicable to the vast array of CBM machines (e.g. VIC-20, C64, C128, TED machines, but NOT the Amiga). And the PET only had characters for graphics so that’s the foundation of the game.
But I get what you’re saying.
@@dominateeye NESCII Robots? SNESCII Robots? GENESISCII Robots? 😆
It's crazy how much work goes into projects like this. Like everything from the game to the manual to the box....super cool
When you release the Super Nintendo version, will it be on a cartridge that fits the EU and us version? I have A Super Famicom and you can make cartridges that fit both the US and Super Famicom so I am wondering if it will release on that type of cartridge.
Absolutely amazed that it's on NES & SNES!
#releaseTheZXspectrumCut
I never knew the 128 had dual monitor support, neat! Nice work on the game ports.
woah the genesis art style looks so cool. Im glad so many people have had their artistic touches added in. Still very much your game, but a nice change for all the versions to keep it interesting.
This feels like a great mix of classic game development, and "open" source software development all in one, it's so cool
Do you think this might see release on Nintendo Switch? If somebody wrapped the NES, Genesis, or SNES version in an emulator it would be really awesome to have in a handheld
What about SteamDeck? 😉
I’m surprised that you haven’t made an actual floppy of your intro and sold it somewhere! I would buy that in a heartbeat!
Other ports I would like to see: BBC / Acorn Electron; Acorn Archimedes; MS Dos and what about a Game Boy version?
The Game Boy uses a Z80-based architecture, not a 6502-based one. Porting to it would require a complete rewrite of the code.
@@Chaos89P If somebody does port the core engine to Z80 then I think that the ideal home computer target would be the Amstrad CPC, and a Sega mastersystem port to show how underappreciated it was compared to the NES :)
@@Antireality The Amstrad CPC is a Z80 machine?
@@Chaos89P it's a z80 machine with a bitmap frame buffer. Less colour restrictions than a c64, and arguably a better palette.
Doesn't have much to help with scrolling, no sprites and no tile mode so it's at a disadvantage for fast smooth scrolling games but I think petscii robots plays to the advantages of the system.
Also has the same screen resolution as the c64, which should help.
If memory is an issue there's always the 6128...
@@Antireality to be period authentic you would need to write the Spectrum version first. That could be ported to the Amstrad but it would run slower
The 128 VDC colour mode is called VDC-M. I trust it is also using 2mhz in the borders and the bitmap copy is done using the stack to push the data and ZP to read it.
We did not use 2 MHz in the borders. We tried, it wasn't stable, so we put that on the back burner to revisit later if we needed it. We decided it was adequate as is.
@@casaderobison2718 interrupts trashing data as you have the stack moved to somewhere else when it fires?
@@oziphantom9465 It should not have been that, but it was something. We used the raster interrupt to judge when to turn on 2 MHz, and another raster interrupt to switch back to 1 MHz. That is a maskable interrupt, and I set the interrupt disable bit when I relocate zp & the stack, then re-enable after I move them back.
Note that I'm using the same technique to achieve PAL compatibility by using a timer interrupt, and it would just as easily trash data. The fact that it isn't trashing data tells me there was something more to it.
In the end, it wasn't absolutely necessary, so I can save it for another game in the future.
It would be great to have an smooth scrolling in the map on SNES and ports that can support it. Also, do it have a digital version? I have an snes cartridge with SD slot, only needing the rom file
I dont like the transparency of the HUD... gets in the way of things... rather have an indepentent still frame for the menu so you can see everything you are supposed to see without obstructions from the weapon, health, etc.
Since C128 was the first 8-bit computer I had at home, I love to see the new port. Good job guys.
As always great work! Do you know when Petscii Robots will be available on punch cards?
If you have a punch card reader or reader / punch connected to your 6502-based microcomputer, let him know! 👍☺
@@bobblum5973now we've exceeded the 6502 architechture!
@DanTDMJace For paper tape, I'm trying to recall if an ASR-33 Teletype supports an RS-232 serial interface or only something like a 20-milliamp current loop. I know the Apple ][ supports RS-232. Back in the day, there were paper tape readers and punches on S-100 bus microcomputers as well as the Heath H-8. But I'm not sure about the availability of card readers and punches.
You can tell how much proud David is while he is talking. It's simply great!
How easily could the Amiga source code be used for an Atari ST port?
Feeling a bit sorry for the ST users potentially missing out. :)
DUAL monitor on C128….Insane!! Commodore must have forgotten about this USP !
Amazing job !!!
Now ofcourse we need to see an Playstation 5 version :))))
What are the chances for smooth scrolling on the NES & SNES?
Damn that intro music brings back childhood memories of sitting down to watch your favorite 80's sitcom. Awesome!
I think with the "Doomguy" style face in the corner getting more and more bloody, it would be nice if it could turn it off. Somewhere, there is some dad who plays with old computers and wants to have his kids play this game but is concerned because this small detail would make several rating systems around the world give the game an 18+ rating.
...or you know, some people don't like blood.
Nah. Modern gaming has enough censorship. If anything, we need posters of pin-up girls for flavour.
Man. That's just really cool. You wrote a simple game, and it's now been ported to so many systems. Such love and effort being shown, that's amazing! I would definitely want to get my hands an SNES version!
Oh, a Genesis port! I hope Noelle works on that one too, I’d love to hear what she does with the YM2612.
💪😁🔥🔥🔥 Your channel is amazing! You are doing extremely good work! And the best confiration of that is the fact you have so many subscribers! I am "chasing" your result, but as for now my result is modest... very modest...
Please PLEASE get the Amiga version working with smooth scrolling.
The game mechanics wouldn't really work correctly with smooth scrolling.
@@The8BitGuy you can still do tile based walking and spacing but scroll the tiles from one to the next smoothly. Smooth scrolling was a signature Amiga game trait and games without it (ports) tended to look janky back in the day. The terminal and text editors o used on Amiga (character based layouts apps) used smooth scrolling and were magnificent. I still miss that today in so many apps in macOS.
This is pretty amazing. My hat is off to you for keeping interest in these old machines.
Nooo, not another Petscii Robots video..
Looks like a bad Gauntlet clone .
Top notch channel right here, I've been around for a while but never stopped to comment or anything! This is prima work, thank you and keep it up!
damn, these robots are invading more computers then the germans invading countries in WWII!
I recently bought myself an Amiga 500, and Petscii Robots will probably be my first game to own for that system!
I hope there’s a Bally Astrocade version coming soon. Haven’t had a new game for that system in awhile…
It would be better to do it on the arcade version of the hardware since you have much more memory and a pattern board(blitter) but there would be a lot of issues porting it over to the Astrocade since you have only 4k which would be mostly for the screen. It would require a RAM upgrade, which could be done at the back edge connector.
Congratulations on the success of PETSCII Robots! I'm so happy how many people are enjoying the game including kids! I'm quite excited about the SNES port and I did see an MS-DOS port. That would open up the game to many users! Once it's on every console known to man, people will now say, "Yeah, but can your printer PETSCII?"