I find it hilarious that David's game is becoming what DOOM was in the 90s. Everybody wants a port for XYZ system and every programmer wants to take a crack at porting it. Just goes to show that some things don't change no matter how much time passes.
@@gab_v250 I think a port of PETSCii robots to modern machines would ultimately kill the fun in the challenge though, since modern games rely on using hardware abstraction layers (Direct X, SDL, Vulkan)
@somedeveloperblokey Exactly what are you trying to roast OP for? They only made the post because PETSCII Robots has had a remarkable number of ports despite being a non commercial game from this year thats targeted to run on machines best suited for being programmed in ASM.
@@JoSephGD Genesis and Amiga use 68000-class CPUs if I recall, which are derived from the Motorola 6800, which the 6502 is very close in architecture. So porting code could be worse.
Waiting for Bill Herd's reaction. It must be very pleasing for him to see that there will be dedicated ports for his two machines: the Plus4 and the C128. And seeing (and hearing) a port for "my" Amiga 500 is simply awesome!
As someone else who was at that meet, I can attest, those kids were absolutely hooked on the game. It's so incredible to me watching kids feel so enthralled with such dated tech considering the world we live in now. Also insane to see how many dang ports of this there are, but super cool all the same. One thing we lost along the way was seeing the way developers adapted their games to work on so many fundamentally different kinds of hardware and this gives us a taste of that again. I feel like as I acquire hardware it's going to become tradition for me to buy this game on whatever I have that it's on, haha. EDIT: So I guess an addendum I'd like to add, I definitely agree that gameplay comes first, and even as a kid I never was a big "latest and greatest" type of person (I played the heck out of Namco arcade games as a kid and some of my favorite games I played on then-contemporary consoles were compilations of old games), but I also chalk that up to my very past-driven personality. I generally consider myself able to put myself back in the time period of when things came out and think about the context and I've impressed a lot of people with my ability to appreciate things they grew up on, even when I wasn't there. However, I also am unique in that regard and a lot of people aren't like that, so that's why I love it so much when I see kids that young so enticed by things like this, and when I talk about "the world we live in now", we live in a world where we have extremely powerful computers in our pockets at all times and everything prior can easily look super primitive by comparison to a young child who doesn't know any different. That's not the kid's fault of course, it's just their context is so much different so I just think it's even cooler that they can be so hooked on something like that, and the fact that it's a strongly made game is definitely a big help there.
I personally think that the “dated tech” forced David to make the game fun to play first and foremost. With those kids being enthralled with the game, I’d say he succeeded!
It's all in how you bring them up. My 3 year old asks for Mario 2 (since we beat SMB together) and Snake Rattle n Roll (the snake game, he says) He'll be playing Petscii robots soon enough on the NES ;)
Dual monitor setup on the C128 with working games would literally have blown my mind as a kid. I remember my step brother having a C128 and every time I visited him I spent the whole time in-front of that computer.
Grayscale-only on the NES really does not feel right given how colorful every other game on that system was. Hopefully the maintainer of that port can figure something out!
Probably not as the NES has 16x16 color cells (which means a palette can only be given per 16x16 pixels), which cannot fit with either the 8x8 character size or the 24x24 tile size.
It seems more of an artistic limitation than a technical one-figuring out how to distribute the available four three-color (plus black) palettes among the various objects the game contains. I suppose if they were willing to use single-color tiles like most versions have, they could just pick 12 colors, distribute them at random to the four palettes, and treat them like 12 single-color palettes. But that's still three less colors than the 64 had to play with.
The NES's color attribute system only has a granularity of 2x2 tiles, which clashes with the 3x3 tile artwork of the other versions. The solution here would either be to zoom the camera out and shrink the graphics to fit in 2x2 tiles (very idomatic for the NES, but also a substantial change to the game's design), or to use the MMC5 enhancement chip (not economically viable for cartridge production, from my understanding). I hope they can figure something out, though for now the game doesn't look bad imo.
@@Dedicatedtolivinginthepast it's likely more probable with the Family BASIC keyboard. in fact, the NES version could probably support it, since both the JP Famicom and the USA NES can have the keyboard plug into it (the NES needs an adapter, though)
I know it's drifting further and further away from using the pet character set, but the Amiga version would look really nice with a smooth scrolling option.
The amiga port looks incredible! Love these 8-bit games, glad there's been a resurgence of game development to emulate the 8-bit gaming experience, but working directly on the 8-bit systems is awesome!
Funny term, that "8-bit" though. Sure it's a meme today, and probably impossible to change. But it would have been more natural to call it 16-bit. Because you are never limited to just eight bits in those computers, while their adressing is most often limited to 16 bits, which is pretty cumbersome to get around (with hardware bank swiching, segments, or similar).
@@herrbonk3635 Well, yes, the Amiga was/is 16-bit. This game, however, was originally developed for the Pet, which, from my understanding is fully an 8-bit system. Hence the 8-bit game part. The systems in this video were a mixture of 8-bit and 16-bit systems, so me saying 'working directly on the 8-bit systems' is inaccurate. What I meant was machines from the era, as opposed to in an emulator.
@@wallypop86 I think you miss my point here. The Pet was also 16-bit in this sense (i.e. addressing). The original Amiga has 24-bit adressing so it is a 24-bit machine in the meaning that most so called "8-bit systems" are really 16-bit (i.e. limited to 16-bit, not 8). But you can choose to focus on other aspects: The 68000 is often called a 32-bit CPU, as it has 32-bit registers and 32-bit instructions. Others may find its 16-bit databus, 16-bit ALU, or 16-bit internal buses and microarchitecture more important. The famous Z80 may be another example. It has several 16-bit registers and (unlike the 6502) also some 16-bit instructions. But it uses a 4-bit ALU to perform most of this. So it's both 4-bit, 8-bit and 16-bit depending on your viewpoint. At the same time, it can be programmed to do 32-bit arithmetics or more (say 53 bits, needed for double precision floating point). So it's not in any way limited to 8/16-bit arithmetic just because its instructions work on eight or 16 bits at the time. It's much more limited by its 16-bit adressing. That was my point.
@@herrbonk3635 hmmm. CD sound is “16 bit” but years ago there were “1-bit”’cd players (the way the DAC processed was new/different but I can’t recall the details). You want a memory map that’s 8-bit? Okay so the Atari 2600 RAM space (ignore ROM for now) has you covered! Only 128 bytes! You can have a whopping 256 bytes when counting on an 8-bit address bus. So the 2600’s RAM does it in half of that! The “ST” line of Atari computers was named for the Sixteen/Thirtytwo nature of the 68000 if I’m to believe the history I’m reading these days. I did not see that back in the day but maybe I missed an issue of a magazine that covered that detail (like the announcement or hands on report at CES back in 1985). In the sense that I would not call the Intel 8088 an 8-bit cpu due to the budget bus (the ISA is the same as the 16-bit 8086 if you’ll grant me the notion that the 8086 is “16-bit”) I would not call the 68000 or even the 68008 16-bit or 8-bit (respectively). They just aren’t fully 32-bit implementations of a 32-bit ISA. It operates on 32 bit values. Not tricks needed. The 6502 accumulator is 8-bit and you need to DIY 16 number manipulation with several instruction fetches. This only goes to show how NOT neat and tidy our oversimplified descriptions are. 🤯
@@herrbonk3635 That's not the normal way people refer to the "bitness" of a CPU or computer system. Most commonly people refer to the number of bits as the width of the *data* bus or (slightly less common) the instruction set. Using the address bus size is the least common way to do it.
I quite like the weird greyscale colouring for the NES, has a striking look. Thank you for making a proper 128 game, and thank you for taking advantage of the dual monitor ability.
Anyone else thinks the C=128 in the thumbnail is pretty sexy? Sorry guys, but the C=128 is one of the best-looking 8-bit 6502 computers designed. Designed in the era of the Amiga 1000. And even the C=128D is a serious looking 8-bit computer. The Apple IIgs is also nice, for a box with two lights on it.
Hi from Germany. It is so great to see how detailed you get on your ports like using the second screen on the C128. It is so stunning what neglected platforms can actually do. I never thought a stock 128 game could be so much better looking than a 64 game. I always thought you could not utilise any advantages as the chips are virtually the same.
IMO you really have to bite the apple and start coding for the native C128 mode in order to understand the advantages. Ever for a C128 owner, the benefits may seem negligible, but when you start coding, you discover the C128 is really quite a bit more powerful.
More RAM, extra video display, even something as mundane as the 128 MMU to help manage all that memory became very important in copying the data as quickly as possible.
I have never been more hype for any other game release. Absolutely insane. The NES, SNES, and Genesis versions are the ones I am most excited for. I actually have an NES so I could get a cartridge of the game! This is wild!!
You should definitely ask Jon Burton of GameHut for Genesis tips and tricks, he's like a Genesis wizard, considering what Traveller's Tales games did on it back in the day.
Thanks for detailing the mods on the C128. A always figured it was totally underutilized. Andddddd ordered! Will now have to make room on my desk to set my 1701 next to my 1902 so I can dual screen this!
I have the BMC128 Vice port running on a raspberry pi, and it shows both 40 & 80 column screens on an HDTV. I've been thinking it would be cool to make a device that had inputs for both 40 & 80 column screens, merge them into one HDTV signal, and send that on to an HDTV.
This is exciting news. I am so glad to see the proliferation of Petscii Robots. It is amazing how it has gone from being a game you decided to make for the PET after you built TFW8bit PET Mini. I love how the community of retro enthusiasts inspire and support each other like this. It gives me a lot of warm fuzzies. Thanks so much for this!
I wish that too. Unfortunately, videos like this take about fifty hours or more to put together and require video editing and public speaking skills that a lot of us lack.
I haven't bought much in the way of software for my retro computers and only on digital media until today. I bought the C128 physical disk. I look forward to something other than BASIC for C128 mode.
The Amiga port looks gorgeous! Can't beat pixel perfect art! Also this is proof that graphics don't always matter. Well done David! Congratulations to the rest of the artists and community!
That C128 looks really-really sweet, the dual monitor is genious! When I saw the image of the Amiga 500 I said it out loud "That's still a beautiful machine!" even though I'm home alone and no one was able to hear me. I have a soft spot for the Amiga 500 in my heart still. Damn, seeing all these versions makes hyped that I feel like I need to rush out and buy all the versions. I have a C64, an Amiga 500, NES and SNES but I really don't need them. But my collecting mindset kicked it :)
I bet he could do a super lazy/awesome version where it's actually just basically a digital only release with an emulator but you can pick or choose which version you're going to get. It works out as a win for both sides since there's absolutely no hardware or packaging involved cutting cost, and as a PC player you can more directly see what differences each platform has.
@@Seven71987 that's a development cost thing. Not saying impossible, but all of the ports outside of the original are done by 3rd party people. If there is someone who's immediately like "oooh! DOS!" and actually goes ahead and makes that version, awesome. But I'm just saying right now there's a 0 effort way for modern PCs to have a ton of awesome options
Maybe I'm just a purist but I'm not so keen on the Amiga/C128 "improved" versions. What I love about the creation of this game was the fact that it used the PETSCII character set - those same little characters that I made so many pictures with when I was 10.
That's a reasonable point, but I think David was clear in earlier videos that it was about making the best use of the resources available on the hardware for PET, so it makes sense that more capable machines would get more capable ports. But at least the C64 version does support PET mode, and the C128 supports the C64!
Can’t wait to see this become ported to more systems than Skyrim! Just holding out on AOTPR for smart fridge lol. In all seriousness, I got the apple II version and love it, and am so glad to see the success this game is having across the retro community.
Fascinating stuff. So nostalgic. This game would have been a huge hit if released early back in the day. Great to see how it’s developed in all the different platform ports. Would be great to have better Atari 8-bit version up to the c64 std.
The Atari 8-bit was released in 1979, and the C=64 in 1983, so naturally the Commodore was slightly more technologically advanced (better sound generator for example). So to expect the game to be up to the same standard is kind of wishful thinking. Sorry, just facts.
woah the genesis art style looks so cool. Im glad so many people have had their artistic touches added in. Still very much your game, but a nice change for all the versions to keep it interesting.
What amazing work you guys are doing. I always thought the C128 could do so much more and I'm glad its finally being shown. Really wanted a c128 when I was younger but my c64 kept me entertained for a LONG time.
So, being a crazy 128 developer myself, I'm curious what you mean by "using the MMU for faster block copies" -- it doesn't provide DMA, of course, so what did you mean? The port is freaking amazing, so huge props to Scott Robison, and congrats to you, too, David, for achieving so much success with this game! :D
The MMU can remap the zero page and stack anywhere in memory. So remap the stack, set the stack pointer to where you want to copy and then repeatedly do PHA. Takes only 3 cycles and auto-increments the stack pointer.
@@danielmantione Oho! I wouldn't have even thought of using the stack as a block transfer mechanism that way, but in retrospect, that's an amazing technique! Thanks for the explanation!
Scott Robison here. I put up a video about the game ... not as good as David's but in part of it I do explain with a visual aid how I can move pages around, copy them, and then put them back so the system can continue. th-cam.com/video/ri6YrCrJBkw/w-d-xo.html takes you to the beginning of that section if interested. I wouldn't turn down an extra view of the whole thing either. :) To summarize though: Normally you'd have to do this in a loop using absolute indexed addressing to LDA then again to STA. I relocate ZP to the source material then use LDA zp,X to load a byte. The stack was relocated to the correct page of the bitmap space and instead of STA I use PHA. What was an 11 cycle process per byte becomes a 7 cycle process.
LOL, a game that was actually TITLED to match the single port that it was intended for (Commadore PET) that is probably now the most properly multi ported game in all of human history, LMAO.
Well.. the original wasn’t a “port”. Right? But “PETSCII” is applicable to the vast array of CBM machines (e.g. VIC-20, C64, C128, TED machines, but NOT the Amiga). And the PET only had characters for graphics so that’s the foundation of the game. But I get what you’re saying.
Simply came here to congratulate you on this game. Currently playing through on my Evercade and it’s in my top 5 games for sure. The music is sublime. Thank you!
When you release the Super Nintendo version, will it be on a cartridge that fits the EU and us version? I have A Super Famicom and you can make cartridges that fit both the US and Super Famicom so I am wondering if it will release on that type of cartridge.
It would be great to have an smooth scrolling in the map on SNES and ports that can support it. Also, do it have a digital version? I have an snes cartridge with SD slot, only needing the rom file
I dont like the transparency of the HUD... gets in the way of things... rather have an indepentent still frame for the menu so you can see everything you are supposed to see without obstructions from the weapon, health, etc.
Do you think this might see release on Nintendo Switch? If somebody wrapped the NES, Genesis, or SNES version in an emulator it would be really awesome to have in a handheld
@DanTDMJace For paper tape, I'm trying to recall if an ASR-33 Teletype supports an RS-232 serial interface or only something like a 20-milliamp current loop. I know the Apple ][ supports RS-232. Back in the day, there were paper tape readers and punches on S-100 bus microcomputers as well as the Heath H-8. But I'm not sure about the availability of card readers and punches.
@@Chaos89P If somebody does port the core engine to Z80 then I think that the ideal home computer target would be the Amstrad CPC, and a Sega mastersystem port to show how underappreciated it was compared to the NES :)
@@Chaos89P it's a z80 machine with a bitmap frame buffer. Less colour restrictions than a c64, and arguably a better palette. Doesn't have much to help with scrolling, no sprites and no tile mode so it's at a disadvantage for fast smooth scrolling games but I think petscii robots plays to the advantages of the system. Also has the same screen resolution as the c64, which should help. If memory is an issue there's always the 6128...
@@The8BitGuy you can still do tile based walking and spacing but scroll the tiles from one to the next smoothly. Smooth scrolling was a signature Amiga game trait and games without it (ports) tended to look janky back in the day. The terminal and text editors o used on Amiga (character based layouts apps) used smooth scrolling and were magnificent. I still miss that today in so many apps in macOS.
I think with the "Doomguy" style face in the corner getting more and more bloody, it would be nice if it could turn it off. Somewhere, there is some dad who plays with old computers and wants to have his kids play this game but is concerned because this small detail would make several rating systems around the world give the game an 18+ rating. ...or you know, some people don't like blood.
This is awesome...to see a new game run in a way that can take me back to my youth and the excitement of saying "wow, look at those graphics" is emotionally moving. Great work by everyone!
I read about your game in an article in the german magazine "return". It's interesting that there also new games for the commodore vic 20. Impressiv is, that more ports came/will come. I love the retro community! So many amazing people.
Once again, just yesterday I was thinking, "It must be about time for a new 8-bit Guy video." And this morning when I wake up, the recommendation was right there. And it did not disappoint! Thanks, David, and all those who have been working on all these ports.
I find it hilarious that David's game is becoming what DOOM was in the 90s. Everybody wants a port for XYZ system and every programmer wants to take a crack at porting it. Just goes to show that some things don't change no matter how much time passes.
now I can't wait for an official release on modern systems /S
jk but seriously, his games could get more traction if sold on Steam.
@@gab_v250
I think a port of PETSCii robots to modern machines would ultimately kill the fun in the challenge though, since modern games rely on using hardware abstraction layers (Direct X, SDL, Vulkan)
@@paulgraves1392 True. To play it on your modern machine just use an emulator.
Except now it has lots of more merit, since the market for the machines involved is so much smaller.
@somedeveloperblokey
Exactly what are you trying to roast OP for? They only made the post because PETSCII Robots has had a remarkable number of ports despite being a non commercial game from this year thats targeted to run on machines best suited for being programmed in ASM.
This game being ported to every system is a testament to the dedicated community that you have, David. Congrats on all your success :)
can i pay $250.00 USD + shipping for a master box set of all ports?
This game is new Doom
Doom of the Commodore
Genius man. Imagine you had an old computer but worried it has no games. Guess what things have changed
Can an iPod run Attack of the PETSCII Robots?
this is the new "can it run doom" of the 6502 family lmao
@Wotzinator Genesis and Amiga aren't 6502.
@@JoSephGD Genesis and Amiga use 68000-class CPUs if I recall, which are derived from the Motorola 6800, which the 6502 is very close in architecture. So porting code could be worse.
@@alhuno1 ti89 titanium port when?
@@abhimaanmayadam5713 Spectrum port when?
@@alhuno1 Isn't the Motorola 68000 the same CPU that early macs used?
It's so cool to see a game challenge doom for "how many platforms you can play it on"
Keep up the good work
"La Abadía del Crimen": Hold my "The name of the Rose" basis.
2021:it runs doom
2022:it runs Petscii Robots
We need a Rockbox port... and a toaster port.
Petscii robots on Gameboy Advance when?
@Mayravixx Petscii on GBA multiboot when?
"What modification did you do to allow this C-128 to use two monitors?"
"I plugged in a second monitor."
Waiting for Bill Herd's reaction. It must be very pleasing for him to see that there will be dedicated ports for his two machines: the Plus4 and the C128. And seeing (and hearing) a port for "my" Amiga 500 is simply awesome!
I never thought about getting Bil Herd's reaction. I hope the C128 port impresses him, that would make my day ... month ... year ... whatever! :)
As someone else who was at that meet, I can attest, those kids were absolutely hooked on the game. It's so incredible to me watching kids feel so enthralled with such dated tech considering the world we live in now.
Also insane to see how many dang ports of this there are, but super cool all the same. One thing we lost along the way was seeing the way developers adapted their games to work on so many fundamentally different kinds of hardware and this gives us a taste of that again. I feel like as I acquire hardware it's going to become tradition for me to buy this game on whatever I have that it's on, haha.
EDIT: So I guess an addendum I'd like to add, I definitely agree that gameplay comes first, and even as a kid I never was a big "latest and greatest" type of person (I played the heck out of Namco arcade games as a kid and some of my favorite games I played on then-contemporary consoles were compilations of old games), but I also chalk that up to my very past-driven personality. I generally consider myself able to put myself back in the time period of when things came out and think about the context and I've impressed a lot of people with my ability to appreciate things they grew up on, even when I wasn't there. However, I also am unique in that regard and a lot of people aren't like that, so that's why I love it so much when I see kids that young so enticed by things like this, and when I talk about "the world we live in now", we live in a world where we have extremely powerful computers in our pockets at all times and everything prior can easily look super primitive by comparison to a young child who doesn't know any different. That's not the kid's fault of course, it's just their context is so much different so I just think it's even cooler that they can be so hooked on something like that, and the fact that it's a strongly made game is definitely a big help there.
I personally think that the “dated tech” forced David to make the game fun to play first and foremost. With those kids being enthralled with the game, I’d say he succeeded!
Goes to show that it's gameplay, not graphics, that make a game engaging. Tetris' enduring appeal is proof of that too.
Yeah, it's a real surprise children *that* young are hooked on that game.
It's all in how you bring them up. My 3 year old asks for Mario 2 (since we beat SMB together) and Snake Rattle n Roll (the snake game, he says)
He'll be playing Petscii robots soon enough on the NES ;)
@@edmund-osborne Or chess, scrabble, table tennis, improvising music, and so on.
Dual monitor setup on the C128 with working games would literally have blown my mind as a kid. I remember my step brother having a C128 and every time I visited him I spent the whole time in-front of that computer.
Grayscale-only on the NES really does not feel right given how colorful every other game on that system was. Hopefully the maintainer of that port can figure something out!
Probably not as the NES has 16x16 color cells (which means a palette can only be given per 16x16 pixels), which cannot fit with either the 8x8 character size or the 24x24 tile size.
I'm a little puzzled by this myself.
But I think it looks good in a sense.
It seems more of an artistic limitation than a technical one-figuring out how to distribute the available four three-color (plus black) palettes among the various objects the game contains. I suppose if they were willing to use single-color tiles like most versions have, they could just pick 12 colors, distribute them at random to the four palettes, and treat them like 12 single-color palettes. But that's still three less colors than the 64 had to play with.
The NES's color attribute system only has a granularity of 2x2 tiles, which clashes with the 3x3 tile artwork of the other versions. The solution here would either be to zoom the camera out and shrink the graphics to fit in 2x2 tiles (very idomatic for the NES, but also a substantial change to the game's design), or to use the MMC5 enhancement chip (not economically viable for cartridge production, from my understanding).
I hope they can figure something out, though for now the game doesn't look bad imo.
As a Finn myself, I was not surprised at all that the Amiga version is being developed by a Finn.
A lot of free time over the long winters?
Too bad his name was typo'd in the video though
@@KOPFJE Subtitles had the correct spelling.
How come?
Regards,
Sweden
@@jockeberg4089 For the same reason that you wouldn't be surprised if it was being developed by a Swede.
Doom: I’m the game with the most ports
Pettscii Robots: hold my beer
I hope y'all haven't forgotten about Lemmings
We need a PETSCII Robot mod for Skyrim.
TI 83 version when?
Waiting for the day someone makes a working PETSCII Robots port inside Minecraft.
Petscii for Sony Mavica please
Now that you have it working on SNES you need to make a Commodore keyboard adapter for the SNES controller port!
Maybe for the C128D keyboard?
Yea sure!
@@Dedicatedtolivinginthepast it's likely more probable with the Family BASIC keyboard. in fact, the NES version could probably support it, since both the JP Famicom and the USA NES can have the keyboard plug into it (the NES needs an adapter, though)
Yeah! How did I not realize that could work perfectly! At least on Famicom
Really glad to see a C128 version! There is a massive lack of software for that platform, which is a shame because it's capable of some neat things.
It’s fantastic! Miss my 128, it needs a comeback.
Before: Can it run DOOM?
Now: Can it run Petscii Robots?
I know it's drifting further and further away from using the pet character set, but the Amiga version would look really nice with a smooth scrolling option.
The amiga port looks incredible! Love these 8-bit games, glad there's been a resurgence of game development to emulate the 8-bit gaming experience, but working directly on the 8-bit systems is awesome!
Funny term, that "8-bit" though. Sure it's a meme today, and probably impossible to change. But it would have been more natural to call it 16-bit. Because you are never limited to just eight bits in those computers, while their adressing is most often limited to 16 bits, which is pretty cumbersome to get around (with hardware bank swiching, segments, or similar).
@@herrbonk3635 Well, yes, the Amiga was/is 16-bit. This game, however, was originally developed for the Pet, which, from my understanding is fully an 8-bit system. Hence the 8-bit game part. The systems in this video were a mixture of 8-bit and 16-bit systems, so me saying 'working directly on the 8-bit systems' is inaccurate. What I meant was machines from the era, as opposed to in an emulator.
@@wallypop86 I think you miss my point here. The Pet was also 16-bit in this sense (i.e. addressing). The original Amiga has 24-bit adressing so it is a 24-bit machine in the meaning that most so called "8-bit systems" are really 16-bit (i.e. limited to 16-bit, not 8).
But you can choose to focus on other aspects: The 68000 is often called a 32-bit CPU, as it has 32-bit registers and 32-bit instructions. Others may find its 16-bit databus, 16-bit ALU, or 16-bit internal buses and microarchitecture more important.
The famous Z80 may be another example. It has several 16-bit registers and (unlike the 6502) also some 16-bit instructions. But it uses a 4-bit ALU to perform most of this. So it's both 4-bit, 8-bit and 16-bit depending on your viewpoint. At the same time, it can be programmed to do 32-bit arithmetics or more (say 53 bits, needed for double precision floating point). So it's not in any way limited to 8/16-bit arithmetic just because its instructions work on eight or 16 bits at the time. It's much more limited by its 16-bit adressing. That was my point.
@@herrbonk3635 hmmm. CD sound is “16 bit” but years ago there were “1-bit”’cd players (the way the DAC processed was new/different but I can’t recall the details).
You want a memory map that’s 8-bit? Okay so the Atari 2600 RAM space (ignore ROM for now) has you covered! Only 128 bytes! You can have a whopping 256 bytes when counting on an 8-bit address bus. So the 2600’s RAM does it in half of that!
The “ST” line of Atari computers was named for the Sixteen/Thirtytwo nature of the 68000 if I’m to believe the history I’m reading these days. I did not see that back in the day but maybe I missed an issue of a magazine that covered that detail (like the announcement or hands on report at CES back in 1985).
In the sense that I would not call the Intel 8088 an 8-bit cpu due to the budget bus (the ISA is the same as the 16-bit 8086 if you’ll grant me the notion that the 8086 is “16-bit”) I would not call the 68000 or even the 68008 16-bit or 8-bit (respectively). They just aren’t fully 32-bit implementations of a 32-bit ISA. It operates on 32 bit values. Not tricks needed. The 6502 accumulator is 8-bit and you need to DIY 16 number manipulation with several instruction fetches.
This only goes to show how NOT neat and tidy our oversimplified descriptions are. 🤯
@@herrbonk3635 That's not the normal way people refer to the "bitness" of a CPU or computer system. Most commonly people refer to the number of bits as the width of the *data* bus or (slightly less common) the instruction set. Using the address bus size is the least common way to do it.
I quite like the weird greyscale colouring for the NES, has a striking look. Thank you for making a proper 128 game, and thank you for taking advantage of the dual monitor ability.
Anyone else thinks the C=128 in the thumbnail is pretty sexy? Sorry guys, but the C=128 is one of the best-looking 8-bit 6502 computers designed. Designed in the era of the Amiga 1000.
And even the C=128D is a serious looking 8-bit computer. The Apple IIgs is also nice, for a box with two lights on it.
its a delight to see the retro homebrew community being so alive. great inspiration for everyone! keep it up!
Hi from Germany. It is so great to see how detailed you get on your ports like using the second screen on the C128. It is so stunning what neglected platforms can actually do. I never thought a stock 128 game could be so much better looking than a 64 game. I always thought you could not utilise any advantages as the chips are virtually the same.
IMO you really have to bite the apple and start coding for the native C128 mode in order to understand the advantages. Ever for a C128 owner, the benefits may seem negligible, but when you start coding, you discover the C128 is really quite a bit more powerful.
More RAM is always better.
More RAM, extra video display, even something as mundane as the 128 MMU to help manage all that memory became very important in copying the data as quickly as possible.
I have never been more hype for any other game release. Absolutely insane. The NES, SNES, and Genesis versions are the ones I am most excited for. I actually have an NES so I could get a cartridge of the game! This is wild!!
You should definitely ask Jon Burton of GameHut for Genesis tips and tricks, he's like a Genesis wizard, considering what Traveller's Tales games did on it back in the day.
Damn, the Amiga version blew me away. Beautiful.
Thanks for detailing the mods on the C128. A always figured it was totally underutilized. Andddddd ordered! Will now have to make room on my desk to set my 1701 next to my 1902 so I can dual screen this!
I have the BMC128 Vice port running on a raspberry pi, and it shows both 40 & 80 column screens on an HDTV. I've been thinking it would be cool to make a device that had inputs for both 40 & 80 column screens, merge them into one HDTV signal, and send that on to an HDTV.
Great to see a real 128 game !!! Thanks you.
This is exciting news. I am so glad to see the proliferation of Petscii Robots. It is amazing how it has gone from being a game you decided to make for the PET after you built TFW8bit PET Mini. I love how the community of retro enthusiasts inspire and support each other like this. It gives me a lot of warm fuzzies. Thanks so much for this!
This is so interesting - I wish more independent developers would post the ins and outs of the process like this.
I wish that too. Unfortunately, videos like this take about fifty hours or more to put together and require video editing and public speaking skills that a lot of us lack.
I haven't bought much in the way of software for my retro computers and only on digital media until today. I bought the C128 physical disk. I look forward to something other than BASIC for C128 mode.
Thank you for your support! :)
Tbh that C128 rough draft of the "slow" graphics looks playable to me.
Same. But there was a noticeable difference in the optimized version.
The Amiga port looks gorgeous! Can't beat pixel perfect art!
Also this is proof that graphics don't always matter.
Well done David! Congratulations to the rest of the artists and community!
I really enjoy hearing about the challenges presented by each platform and the ways you overcame them. Thanks for your commitment, David!
not gonna lie, I'd love to play the SNES version.
That C128 looks really-really sweet, the dual monitor is genious!
When I saw the image of the Amiga 500 I said it out loud "That's still a beautiful machine!" even though I'm home alone and no one was able to hear me. I have a soft spot for the Amiga 500 in my heart still.
Damn, seeing all these versions makes hyped that I feel like I need to rush out and buy all the versions. I have a C64, an Amiga 500, NES and SNES but I really don't need them. But my collecting mindset kicked it :)
Wow that c128 version. Much like! :)
I've said it before, but it's worth saying again...you have the best intro music on all of TH-cam.
C128 graphics are gorgeous! 😀
The NES version I am most excited for as I am a huge NES fan.
Wow, never knew the 128 could use two monitors
Not only that, but the 80 column monitor is even controllable in c64 mode
14:14 Ok this was so cute seeing this 2 kids just having fun with this ancient comuputer
Crazy to think that the first PETSCII Robots video was over a year ago.
Keep up the great work, David!
I hadn't played the c64 version yet on my c128, I'm so glad I waited, can't wait to try the full c128 version!
Definitely excited for the Genesis version. Can't wait until it's available! Will there be a DOS/Windows version?
I bet he could do a super lazy/awesome version where it's actually just basically a digital only release with an emulator but you can pick or choose which version you're going to get. It works out as a win for both sides since there's absolutely no hardware or packaging involved cutting cost, and as a PC player you can more directly see what differences each platform has.
@@DasGanon Waiting for release on Steam or GOG BABY!!!
I rally hope so. would love to see it running on my 8088
What about PC with Adlib, Master System and Turbografx16?
@@Seven71987 that's a development cost thing. Not saying impossible, but all of the ports outside of the original are done by 3rd party people. If there is someone who's immediately like "oooh! DOS!" and actually goes ahead and makes that version, awesome. But I'm just saying right now there's a 0 effort way for modern PCs to have a ton of awesome options
I love how you guys have so much passion for this project.
It's crazy how much work goes into projects like this. Like everything from the game to the manual to the box....super cool
Maybe I'm just a purist but I'm not so keen on the Amiga/C128 "improved" versions. What I love about the creation of this game was the fact that it used the PETSCII character set - those same little characters that I made so many pictures with when I was 10.
That's a reasonable point, but I think David was clear in earlier videos that it was about making the best use of the resources available on the hardware for PET, so it makes sense that more capable machines would get more capable ports. But at least the C64 version does support PET mode, and the C128 supports the C64!
I'm very excited about the Sega Genesis version! It looks fantastic even in a very early stage!
Now, should I dream about a Sega Saturn port too?
I love seeing the progress of this game. Thanks to all who are working the ports. Keep up the great work everyone.
This is fascinating. Thanks for sharing the journey of your development and ports of this game.
Can’t wait to see this become ported to more systems than Skyrim! Just holding out on AOTPR for smart fridge lol. In all seriousness, I got the apple II version and love it, and am so glad to see the success this game is having across the retro community.
Fascinating stuff. So nostalgic. This game would have been a huge hit if released early back in the day. Great to see how it’s developed in all the different platform ports. Would be great to have better Atari 8-bit version up to the c64 std.
The Atari 8-bit was released in 1979, and the C=64 in 1983, so naturally the Commodore was slightly more technologically advanced (better sound generator for example). So to expect the game to be up to the same standard is kind of wishful thinking. Sorry, just facts.
This is pretty amazing. My hat is off to you for keeping interest in these old machines.
Top notch channel right here, I've been around for a while but never stopped to comment or anything! This is prima work, thank you and keep it up!
woah the genesis art style looks so cool. Im glad so many people have had their artistic touches added in. Still very much your game, but a nice change for all the versions to keep it interesting.
The Amiga has so much power compared to some of the others... pretty cool. Just out of curiosity, anyone working on an Atari ST port?
I’d think an ST port would be fairly easy to do considering it’s so similar to the Amiga.
@@GregsGameRoom the graphics would be different but all the core routines should be the same (same processor).
What amazing work you guys are doing. I always thought the C128 could do so much more and I'm glad its finally being shown. Really wanted a c128 when I was younger but my c64 kept me entertained for a LONG time.
I simply love this channel. you're so professional!
So, being a crazy 128 developer myself, I'm curious what you mean by "using the MMU for faster block copies" -- it doesn't provide DMA, of course, so what did you mean? The port is freaking amazing, so huge props to Scott Robison, and congrats to you, too, David, for achieving so much success with this game! :D
The MMU can remap the zero page and stack anywhere in memory. So remap the stack, set the stack pointer to where you want to copy and then repeatedly do PHA. Takes only 3 cycles and auto-increments the stack pointer.
I like your C128 videos.
@@danielmantione Oho! I wouldn't have even thought of using the stack as a block transfer mechanism that way, but in retrospect, that's an amazing technique! Thanks for the explanation!
@@danielmantione Thanks! More coming in December!
Scott Robison here. I put up a video about the game ... not as good as David's but in part of it I do explain with a visual aid how I can move pages around, copy them, and then put them back so the system can continue. th-cam.com/video/ri6YrCrJBkw/w-d-xo.html takes you to the beginning of that section if interested. I wouldn't turn down an extra view of the whole thing either. :)
To summarize though: Normally you'd have to do this in a loop using absolute indexed addressing to LDA then again to STA. I relocate ZP to the source material then use LDA zp,X to load a byte. The stack was relocated to the correct page of the bitmap space and instead of STA I use PHA. What was an 11 cycle process per byte becomes a 7 cycle process.
LOL, a game that was actually TITLED to match the single port that it was intended for (Commadore PET) that is probably now the most properly multi ported game in all of human history, LMAO.
I wonder if some of those ports could be given their own accurately punny titles...
Well.. the original wasn’t a “port”. Right? But “PETSCII” is applicable to the vast array of CBM machines (e.g. VIC-20, C64, C128, TED machines, but NOT the Amiga). And the PET only had characters for graphics so that’s the foundation of the game.
But I get what you’re saying.
@@dominateeye NESCII Robots? SNESCII Robots? GENESISCII Robots? 😆
Simply came here to congratulate you on this game. Currently playing through on my Evercade and it’s in my top 5 games for sure. The music is sublime. Thank you!
Always amazed by your output.
When you release the Super Nintendo version, will it be on a cartridge that fits the EU and us version? I have A Super Famicom and you can make cartridges that fit both the US and Super Famicom so I am wondering if it will release on that type of cartridge.
It would be great to have an smooth scrolling in the map on SNES and ports that can support it. Also, do it have a digital version? I have an snes cartridge with SD slot, only needing the rom file
I dont like the transparency of the HUD... gets in the way of things... rather have an indepentent still frame for the menu so you can see everything you are supposed to see without obstructions from the weapon, health, etc.
It's so cool to see your game take off and show up on every platform, well done!
Incredible to have that many people step up to tackle it as a challenge. Really cool to see ports for these systems!
Do you think this might see release on Nintendo Switch? If somebody wrapped the NES, Genesis, or SNES version in an emulator it would be really awesome to have in a handheld
What about SteamDeck? 😉
As always great work! Do you know when Petscii Robots will be available on punch cards?
If you have a punch card reader or reader / punch connected to your 6502-based microcomputer, let him know! 👍☺
@@bobblum5973now we've exceeded the 6502 architechture!
@DanTDMJace For paper tape, I'm trying to recall if an ASR-33 Teletype supports an RS-232 serial interface or only something like a 20-milliamp current loop. I know the Apple ][ supports RS-232. Back in the day, there were paper tape readers and punches on S-100 bus microcomputers as well as the Heath H-8. But I'm not sure about the availability of card readers and punches.
I love these videos about Petscii Robots and all the system conversions. Cudos to you and your community of collaborators. 👍
Kudos.
I am SO EXCITED for these releases, man!!! Keep the love for these machines :) Always rootin' for you, and every team/person working with you!! :)
Other ports I would like to see: BBC / Acorn Electron; Acorn Archimedes; MS Dos and what about a Game Boy version?
The Game Boy uses a Z80-based architecture, not a 6502-based one. Porting to it would require a complete rewrite of the code.
@@Chaos89P If somebody does port the core engine to Z80 then I think that the ideal home computer target would be the Amstrad CPC, and a Sega mastersystem port to show how underappreciated it was compared to the NES :)
@@Antireality The Amstrad CPC is a Z80 machine?
@@Chaos89P it's a z80 machine with a bitmap frame buffer. Less colour restrictions than a c64, and arguably a better palette.
Doesn't have much to help with scrolling, no sprites and no tile mode so it's at a disadvantage for fast smooth scrolling games but I think petscii robots plays to the advantages of the system.
Also has the same screen resolution as the c64, which should help.
If memory is an issue there's always the 6128...
@@Antireality to be period authentic you would need to write the Spectrum version first. That could be ported to the Amstrad but it would run slower
How easily could the Amiga source code be used for an Atari ST port?
Feeling a bit sorry for the ST users potentially missing out. :)
holy f dude ... you got some passion into that project. maximum respect! just WOW!
What I find most notable is the community that grows around your games! What a wonderful achievement!
What are the chances for smooth scrolling on the NES & SNES?
Oh, a Genesis port! I hope Noelle works on that one too, I’d love to hear what she does with the YM2612.
That C128 monochrome map gives me the horn.
Super Amazing job done, a big praise to all of you.
#releaseTheZXspectrumCut
Please PLEASE get the Amiga version working with smooth scrolling.
The game mechanics wouldn't really work correctly with smooth scrolling.
@@The8BitGuy you can still do tile based walking and spacing but scroll the tiles from one to the next smoothly. Smooth scrolling was a signature Amiga game trait and games without it (ports) tended to look janky back in the day. The terminal and text editors o used on Amiga (character based layouts apps) used smooth scrolling and were magnificent. I still miss that today in so many apps in macOS.
These ports look awesome! Thank you everyone for all your hard work!
Very impressive. I love your videos'. The hardware and programming knowledge each of you have just blows me away.
I think with the "Doomguy" style face in the corner getting more and more bloody, it would be nice if it could turn it off. Somewhere, there is some dad who plays with old computers and wants to have his kids play this game but is concerned because this small detail would make several rating systems around the world give the game an 18+ rating.
...or you know, some people don't like blood.
Nah. Modern gaming has enough censorship. If anything, we need posters of pin-up girls for flavour.
damn, these robots are invading more computers then the germans invading countries in WWII!
This was incredible, thank you for sharing the source code and encouraging others to find their inner game writer.
This is awesome...to see a new game run in a way that can take me back to my youth and the excitement of saying "wow, look at those graphics" is emotionally moving. Great work by everyone!
Nooo, not another Petscii Robots video..
Looks like a bad Gauntlet clone .
It's so nice to see you keeping these old systems alive.
Thank you!
So Many ports. How awesome you've been working on!
Looks amazing David. Who could've imagined that well into the 21st century people would still be developing games for these old machines!
Just awesome. I've just love watching the progress happening.
Dude!! Petcii Robots is getting big!! I can't believe how many platforms are working/being worked on! That's awesome!
Amazing to see this innovation to build on David's work and produce versions for the plus 4 and C128!
Damn that intro music brings back childhood memories of sitting down to watch your favorite 80's sitcom. Awesome!
I really appreciate, that this much thought went into the C128 version.
I read about your game in an article in the german magazine "return". It's interesting that there also new games for the commodore vic 20. Impressiv is, that more ports came/will come. I love the retro community! So many amazing people.
Petscii Guy!! Nice and welcome addition, captures the era for me
Once again, just yesterday I was thinking, "It must be about time for a new 8-bit Guy video." And this morning when I wake up, the recommendation was right there. And it did not disappoint! Thanks, David, and all those who have been working on all these ports.
Since C128 was the first 8-bit computer I had at home, I love to see the new port. Good job guys.
Awesome work. I've never seen a 128 dual monitor setup.. And yeah, I grew up with those machines. Thanks for sharing
You are getting so many versions of this, we are going to need a catalog to keep up! Sending you an SASE.
why
Love your material keep up the great work!