Agreed. Should have done all 3 the same. Either all 3 with the spray or all 3 without. Looks like you were pressing harder with the tru cut pad. I was going to try your pads until this carnival act.
@@David.1517 don't get me wrong the TruCut pads are good I've been using them since they came out. I believe if he had used them all the same it would remove some of the doubt or gimmick that people have about the product.
I immediately jumped to the CTD product portion of this video to see if he would use the conditioner with the CTD pad unlike the others. I've read through the arguments but I'm confused. The conditioner spray is really good for your ball. But only with a CTD pad? So if you use the spray with Abralon, the spray is useless because the manufacture doesn't indicate to use any lubricants? Or is the pad useless now that I put the spray on it? Or if i use Abralon should not even use your spray?
Ron, I understand that CTD pads are recommended with the conditioner and the other brands do not state that, however can you redo with conditioner/water with the other pads as it would impact the results. Not saying CTD pads are not better, but this really isn’t a fair comparison.
It's meant to be a comparison that a normal person would do. They would not use Conditioner with Abralon and 90% of people that use Abralon use it dry. We recommend using Conditioner with our pads. We have videos on this channel already that show using Abralon and water. It didn't make sense to redo that. Here is one example. th-cam.com/video/D_KUvJATlQA/w-d-xo.html
I do get that, but I would think that most of the people using CTD pads on the lanes do not use conditioner even though you do recommend it. This is kinda like that old Edge shaving gel credit card ad. A different angle can make one product seem better regardless of whether it's actually is or not. Please do one where all are under similar conditions and you will have more than one true believer and at least one more loyal customer... 👍
was about to post this. I use CTD 5000D's but abralon everything lower. I use water with my abralon. 100% of the time. I would be ok with conditioner on his CTD's but water on the abralons/saiiars. Still Ron I wanna say thank you for your videos. You have done a lot for the game of bowling and the understanding of the equipment of the game. Please Keep up the GREAT WORK!
@@wenrug9418 THANK YOU Ron !! Since the passing of Moe , You are the go to person that gives more of the technical info on balls and bowling products. Again thank you.
What this video and others like it have sold me on is not any particular pad or polish, but on getting a laser surface scanner. Fresh pads, even those that cut the same grit as marked, don't stay fresh forever. Others have done laser scan tests that suggest those pads are only effective the first two times used. Meanwhile, each ball rolled changes the surface grit of the ball. It's a losing battle. In the end, one strategy may be fast forwarding each new ball to its lane shined 4700 surface grit, then relying on other factors such as the cover's oil absorption, chemical oil/dry friction, and the core's rg/diff/layout in building an arsenal with different ball reactions. If the performance is not baked into the ball, just changing the surface is a waste of time and money since the effect does not last. But, it does make for good repeat business.
As many other are saying, this comparison video was pointless because the CTD pads were wet with conditioner, and the other pads were dry. Dry pads load up with dust, which kills the effectiveness. Most everyone I know uses Abralon pads wet
I will use them dry if I need to change surface real quick before a league block or something starts. But you have to knock the dust out and off of the pad fairly frequently. But they still work just fine. Though I wonder if using them dry causes the pad to wear out faster.
@@Ctdbowling to be fair you should have done the TruCut pad dry as well. Don't get me wrong I love your pads there the only pads I use know but it would have made this demonstration fair if all were done the same way.
Debbie downer Tru-cut pads are smaller diameter than siaar and abralon pads. And thinner. I'll give them perks that they do seem to last a little longer. However I like the feel of the bigger thicker pads when surfacing balls. Hint hint nudge nudge.😁
I am super confused. At the beginning of the video you used a true cut pad to bring it to 3000 grit as a base starting point. Then you use another pad that is 2000 that isnt truecut. You put it on the tester and it reads 4200 ish. Is it possible for the pad that isnt a truecut pad to be off that much?? over 2k grit..
How come you didn't spray the ball with the first 2 pads, you did spray the 3rd one, maybe if you sprayed the first 2 pads they would of been closer to 2000 grit too
I don’t understand why there are so many comments about this being unfair comparison between the other pads vs CTD pads due to the other pads being dry vs. ctd being. Because in this scenario the other pads being used dry should’ve produced a lower grit surface vs. a wet CTD pad because as the auto body repair guy comments mentioned wet sanding creates a finer surface. In other words the other pads were that much farther apart at producing the surface grit identified on the pad vs. the CTD pad. If Ron had used water with the other pads the grit surface measured on the balls would’ve been even finer aka more polished then what they produced with dry sanding in this demonstration. The magnification of each pad showed the differences in each pad’s surface grit texture as well. He actually did them a favor by using dry sanding with their pads bc the difference would’ve been that much greater.
Agree with other comments not a fair comparison. Use true cut on all 3 sanding pads then see if there’s a difference. Like your product but your using favoritism towards your product is not how you do business. 🙁
Are there any current ball manufacturers that use CTD pads? I ask because we get balls from the various manufacturers and there resurfacing guides direct you to the brand of pads they use. So if we were to follow the manufacturer’s suggested instructions but use CTD pads, will we be replicating the manufacturers resurfacing guide? Now that I think about it, didn’t you put some info out that shows which CTD pads to use to replicate manufactures resurfacing instructions? Can you make an updated vid on that? Thanks, you guys are great.
Anytime you spray a liquid on sand paper it will creat a finer finish then without. Knowledge from 20 years in auto body. Just because it’s not recommended if you sprayed the other the finish will be finer.
I'd like to see this done with 3 of the same bslls out of the box. That woukd be a real comparison. Not really sild on doing it back to back to back with the same ball. Even though you did hit it with 3000. I am sure the previous 2000 pad were still adding more and more sureface. Advantage goes to the last pad as adding more accumulated sureface. Add use each pad as recommend by each manufacturer. Just my thought.🤔
So the majority of the comments are about wetting the pads... but my question is this: If you used a TRU CUT pad to bring the surface to 3000 grit, then applied a 2000 grit and the surface went UP to over 4000 grit...how is that possible? How can it go up? What I would have liked to see was the surface tested each time you brought it to 3000 grit using the Tru Cut.. then after adding the 2000 grit to it. Cuz it doesn't make sense the surface increased.
The reason true cut pads are called true cut is because they cut to the actual grit on the pad. Other pads do not. A 2000 abralon pad is more like a 4k true cut pad.
Why would Jost recommend using TruCut Conditioner? The first thing to do is to look at the product name ( TruCut Conditioner). Then look at the channel (Creating the Difference). That should answer your question but if it doesn't and more explanation is needed or if you want to learn more about how Jost, TruCut, and Creating the Difference are connected spend some time in the blog section of our website. ctdbowling.com/blogs/news
Not to bash your product or anything like that, but i'm not sure if this was a fair assessment. Sure, your product recommends that you use your conditioner but I feel this was easy for you to compare the other two to yours simply because the manufacturers instructions don't mention using a "conditioner" with their sanding pads. Kinda "sleezy" using this example to prove a point and selling your product, but hey, the one thing i learned in my Business classes from my professors is, "to make it in business, is to kill your competition by any means necessary".
I think the real thing to look at isn’t the average grit across the ball. Obviously the test doesn’t work once you decided to add the conditioner to the tru-cut pad because anyone who knows sanding knows that a wet sand is recommended for a closer finish to the actual grit of the sanding paper/ pad. What needs to be looked at here is the deviation. The tru-cut pad had the worse deviation by a decent margin. I’m sure if you used any conditioner on the other pads it would’ve been closer to 2000 with a smaller deviation No hate here as well just an observation - still love the videos!
Not a fair comparison as others said, why didn't you wet sand the other pads? It looks like you're trying to show favor to the true cut pads. The performance of the ball was not any better with true cut versus the other pads
What are you spraying on the backside of the "sanding" pads.. It says "Tru-Cut" on the bottle. Is Tru-Cut a liquid or the brand of Pad you are using and/or marketing..?? Do the two items together make the difference between traditional sanding pads and other mediums.. Want to learn more.. an educated consumer is a repeat consumer..
What a bunch of crap, if you are going to do a test, do it like a scientist would. Dont change any variables. I like your products but this test is invalidated by you changing the variables. All products need to be tested on an equal field to show proper comparisons. You said "Fair enough" when you saw your pad tested, but its not a fair comparison. Dont give your customers a line of crap that "But we intend you to use this spray with our pad". Well prove to us that its not just the spray! Maybe the "REAL Difference" isnt the pad?
Regardless his pads have directions you're supposed to follow to give proper use out of his pads. The other pads don't have any directions besides use the PAD as is.
Poor comparison. Changing variables is not how you achieve accurate results. A person of Ron’s educational background is absolutely aware of this. I love the product but this biased experiment will cause people who are on the fence to think the test was rigged to make your product appear better. Either level the playing field or don’t do the test.
This was an example of how the products are recommended to be used. It's not meant to be anything other than that. We have technology others don't. So the comparison being equal isn't the idea or what's being demonstrated.
I asked the pro shop operator at our lanes this same question one night. His response was: "2000 grit is 2000 grit, regardless if you use Abralon, Scotch Brite, or a fu**ing rock."
😂😂😂😂😂😂 no it's not. That's what is said when you don't have a tool to check things with and instead you go by what you see. At one point everyone said the world was flat too. Based on what they saw. 😂😂😂😂
Ok..I get it...the CTD pads do a much better job of getting you closer to the grit of the pad but you were still far off of 2000 grit at 2100 and 2300 readings. With that you were closer to a 2500 grit pad...if I'm paying for a 1000 grit CTD pad, I want my ball to read 1000 grit otherwise what am I paying for? A pad that can't give me truly what grit I'm buying? smh
They have a chart that shows the abralon/manufacturer equivalent 500ctd=360 1000ctd=500 1500ctd=1000 And so on, the longer you use the pad the higher the surface. I've seen after about 15-20 uses my 1500ctd pads=2000 surface. We have a ball scanner to verify. I always go lower in surface because by the time 10 mins of practice is over your ball WILL be a quite different as far as the surface
When I surface my ball, I do it by hand and dry. This is an apples to orange comparison, because wet sanding is COMPLETELY different than Dry sanding, just ask any auto body guy. Sorry Ronald but thumbs down.......
It's not meant to be apples to apples. It's meant to be how they would be used in real life. We have an additional product they don't have. We have plenty of apples to apple's comparison on this channel already.
I'm fairly new to bowling and have decided I want to start messing around with adjusting the surface of some equipment. I was considering buying a ball spinner. Do you think it's worth the $350 investment?
How come you didn't wet sand the ball with the abralon pad?
My thoughts exactly and to add to that he didn't wet sand the siaair pad either
Agreed. Should have done all 3 the same. Either all 3 with the spray or all 3 without. Looks like you were pressing harder with the tru cut pad. I was going to try your pads until this carnival act.
@@David.1517 don't get me wrong the TruCut pads are good I've been using them since they came out. I believe if he had used them all the same it would remove some of the doubt or gimmick that people have about the product.
I’m sure all of you have way more experience in the industry and a better resume than Ron right? 🙄
I immediately jumped to the CTD product portion of this video to see if he would use the conditioner with the CTD pad unlike the others. I've read through the arguments but I'm confused. The conditioner spray is really good for your ball. But only with a CTD pad? So if you use the spray with Abralon, the spray is useless because the manufacture doesn't indicate to use any lubricants? Or is the pad useless now that I put the spray on it? Or if i use Abralon should not even use your spray?
Ron, I understand that CTD pads are recommended with the conditioner and the other brands do not state that, however can you redo with conditioner/water with the other pads as it would impact the results.
Not saying CTD pads are not better, but this really isn’t a fair comparison.
It's meant to be a comparison that a normal person would do. They would not use Conditioner with Abralon and 90% of people that use Abralon use it dry. We recommend using Conditioner with our pads. We have videos on this channel already that show using Abralon and water. It didn't make sense to redo that. Here is one example. th-cam.com/video/D_KUvJATlQA/w-d-xo.html
I do get that, but I would think that most of the people using CTD pads on the lanes do not use conditioner even though you do recommend it. This is kinda like that old Edge shaving gel credit card ad. A different angle can make one product seem better regardless of whether it's actually is or not. Please do one where all are under similar conditions and you will have more than one true believer and at least one more loyal customer... 👍
was about to post this. I use CTD 5000D's but abralon everything lower. I use water with my abralon. 100% of the time. I would be ok with conditioner on his CTD's but water on the abralons/saiiars. Still Ron I wanna say thank you for your videos. You have done a lot for the game of bowling and the understanding of the equipment of the game. Please Keep up the GREAT WORK!
@@wenrug9418 THANK YOU Ron !!
Since the passing of Moe , You are the go to person that gives more of the technical info on balls and bowling products. Again thank you.
What this video and others like it have sold me on is not any particular pad or polish, but on getting a laser surface scanner. Fresh pads, even those that cut the same grit as marked, don't stay fresh forever. Others have done laser scan tests that suggest those pads are only effective the first two times used. Meanwhile, each ball rolled changes the surface grit of the ball. It's a losing battle. In the end, one strategy may be fast forwarding each new ball to its lane shined 4700 surface grit, then relying on other factors such as the cover's oil absorption, chemical oil/dry friction, and the core's rg/diff/layout in building an arsenal with different ball reactions. If the performance is not baked into the ball, just changing the surface is a waste of time and money since the effect does not last. But, it does make for good repeat business.
God, I want this room in my basement.
As many other are saying, this comparison video was pointless because the CTD pads were wet with conditioner, and the other pads were dry. Dry pads load up with dust, which kills the effectiveness. Most everyone I know uses Abralon pads wet
I will use them dry if I need to change surface real quick before a league block or something starts. But you have to knock the dust out and off of the pad fairly frequently. But they still work just fine.
Though I wonder if using them dry causes the pad to wear out faster.
To make this a fair comparison, why didn’t you use the CTD pad dry like the other two, or spray the conditioner on all 3 pads?
To be fair we needed to use what is recommended by the company for each pad. We recommend conditioner for use with TruCut Sanding Pads
@@Ctdbowling to be fair you should have done the TruCut pad dry as well. Don't get me wrong I love your pads there the only pads I use know but it would have made this demonstration fair if all were done the same way.
Debbie downer
Tru-cut pads are smaller diameter than siaar and abralon pads. And thinner. I'll give them perks that they do seem to last a little longer.
However I like the feel of the bigger thicker pads when surfacing balls. Hint hint nudge nudge.😁
We offer 6 inch pads too. ctdbowling.com/products/trucut-by-ctd-sanding-pads?_pos=7&_sid=27485409a&_ss=r&variant=20186038599778
I am super confused. At the beginning of the video you used a true cut pad to bring it to 3000 grit as a base starting point. Then you use another pad that is 2000 that isnt truecut. You put it on the tester and it reads 4200 ish. Is it possible for the pad that isnt a truecut pad to be off that much?? over 2k grit..
Yeah, I wanna know how something hit with 2000 grit - somehow ends up with a 4000 grit finish.
There's something sketch.
How come you didn't spray the ball with the first 2 pads, you did spray the 3rd one, maybe if you sprayed the first 2 pads they would of been closer to 2000 grit too
I don’t understand why there are so many comments about this being unfair comparison between the other pads vs CTD pads due to the other pads being dry vs. ctd being. Because in this scenario the other pads being used dry should’ve produced a lower grit surface vs. a wet CTD pad because as the auto body repair guy comments mentioned wet sanding creates a finer surface. In other words the other pads were that much farther apart at producing the surface grit identified on the pad vs. the CTD pad. If Ron had used water with the other pads the grit surface measured on the balls would’ve been even finer aka more polished then what they produced with dry sanding in this demonstration.
The magnification of each pad showed the differences in each pad’s surface grit texture as well. He actually did them a favor by using dry sanding with their pads bc the difference would’ve been that much greater.
Common sense would suggest, sanding dry is without a doubt going to give a different outcome!
Agree with other comments not a fair comparison. Use true cut on all 3 sanding pads then see if there’s a difference. Like your product but your using favoritism towards your product is not how you do business. 🙁
Most people wet sand the ball with all pads.I use water with my true cut pads.
Watch this th-cam.com/video/D_KUvJATlQA/w-d-xo.html
Are there any current ball manufacturers that use CTD pads? I ask because we get balls from the various manufacturers and there resurfacing guides direct you to the brand of pads they use. So if we were to follow the manufacturer’s suggested instructions but use CTD pads, will we be replicating the manufacturers resurfacing guide? Now that I think about it, didn’t you put some info out that shows which CTD pads to use to replicate manufactures resurfacing instructions? Can you make an updated vid on that? Thanks, you guys are great.
Anytime you spray a liquid on sand paper it will creat a finer finish then without. Knowledge from 20 years in auto body. Just because it’s not recommended if you sprayed the other the finish will be finer.
I'd like to see this done with 3 of the same bslls out of the box. That woukd be a real comparison.
Not really sild on doing it back to back to back with the same ball. Even though you did hit it with 3000. I am sure the previous 2000 pad were still adding more and more sureface. Advantage goes to the last pad as adding more accumulated sureface. Add use each pad as recommend by each manufacturer. Just my thought.🤔
The tru cut pads are money for sure
Agreed, I especially like the 5000 as I can get very similar to polished finish on my spinner without actually using polish.
So the majority of the comments are about wetting the pads... but my question is this: If you used a TRU CUT pad to bring the surface to 3000 grit, then applied a 2000 grit and the surface went UP to over 4000 grit...how is that possible? How can it go up? What I would have liked to see was the surface tested each time you brought it to 3000 grit using the Tru Cut.. then after adding the 2000 grit to it. Cuz it doesn't make sense the surface increased.
I was told the last grit that you use was the grit on the bowling ball. Wrong advice I guess.........
The reason true cut pads are called true cut is because they cut to the actual grit on the pad. Other pads do not. A 2000 abralon pad is more like a 4k true cut pad.
Have you done sandpaper comparisons?
Can you show us where jost recommends you use a conditioner for the pads? Or, is this something recommended by CTD?
Why would Jost recommend using TruCut Conditioner? The first thing to do is to look at the product name ( TruCut Conditioner). Then look at the channel (Creating the Difference).
That should answer your question but if it doesn't and more explanation is needed or if you want to learn more about how Jost, TruCut, and Creating the Difference are connected spend some time in the blog section of our website.
ctdbowling.com/blogs/news
@@Ctdbowling I never said show us where jost recommends TRUCUT CONDITIONER. I was speaking on a pad conditioner in general but nice try 😂.
You didn't use the conditioner on the second pad?
Is a ball spinner worth the investment? I want to get consistent results but I noticed a lot of comments say they just do it by hand.
YES.................ABSOLUTELY
Not to bash your product or anything like that, but i'm not sure if this was a fair assessment. Sure, your product recommends that you use your conditioner but I feel this was easy for you to compare the other two to yours simply because the manufacturers instructions don't mention using a "conditioner" with their sanding pads. Kinda "sleezy" using this example to prove a point and selling your product, but hey, the one thing i learned in my Business classes from my professors is, "to make it in business, is to kill your competition by any means necessary".
I don't have a ball spinner is good still to do by hand I have a microfiber cloth will that mess up the bowling ball
I think the real thing to look at isn’t the average grit across the ball. Obviously the test doesn’t work once you decided to add the conditioner to the tru-cut pad because anyone who knows sanding knows that a wet sand is recommended for a closer finish to the actual grit of the sanding paper/ pad. What needs to be looked at here is the deviation. The tru-cut pad had the worse deviation by a decent margin. I’m sure if you used any conditioner on the other pads it would’ve been closer to 2000 with a smaller deviation
No hate here as well just an observation - still love the videos!
I just got the tournament starter pack and it didn’t come with the conditioner is that something I really need
ctdbowling.com/blogs/news/trucut-sanding-pad-conditioner
Not a fair comparison as others said, why didn't you wet sand the other pads? It looks like you're trying to show favor to the true cut pads. The performance of the ball was not any better with true cut versus the other pads
What are you spraying on the backside of the "sanding" pads..
It says "Tru-Cut" on the bottle.
Is Tru-Cut a liquid or the brand of Pad you are using and/or marketing..??
Do the two items together make the difference between traditional sanding pads and other mediums..
Want to learn more.. an educated consumer is a repeat consumer..
Thank you for the great presentation Ron and Dustin.
That's a sick ball spinner
Excellent, well thought out demonstration. I was already sold on Tru-Cut sanding pads but this reinforces it.
What a bunch of crap, if you are going to do a test, do it like a scientist would. Dont change any variables. I like your products but this test is invalidated by you changing the variables. All products need to be tested on an equal field to show proper comparisons. You said "Fair enough" when you saw your pad tested, but its not a fair comparison. Dont give your customers a line of crap that "But we intend you to use this spray with our pad". Well prove to us that its not just the spray! Maybe the "REAL Difference" isnt the pad?
Regardless his pads have directions you're supposed to follow to give proper use out of his pads. The other pads don't have any directions besides use the PAD as is.
Damn this guy is out here selling…. But there are some variables that are……. Who am I kidding… take my money
Poor comparison. Changing variables is not how you achieve accurate results. A person of Ron’s educational background is absolutely aware of this. I love the product but this biased experiment will cause people who are on the fence to think the test was rigged to make your product appear better. Either level the playing field or don’t do the test.
This was an example of how the products are recommended to be used. It's not meant to be anything other than that. We have technology others don't. So the comparison being equal isn't the idea or what's being demonstrated.
I asked the pro shop operator at our lanes this same question one night. His response was: "2000 grit is 2000 grit, regardless if you use Abralon, Scotch Brite, or a fu**ing rock."
😂😂😂😂😂😂 no it's not. That's what is said when you don't have a tool to check things with and instead you go by what you see. At one point everyone said the world was flat too. Based on what they saw. 😂😂😂😂
Those are the types of PSOs just looking for easy sales and not spending the time to PROPERLY educate their customers. Go somewhere else.
If you're going to compare pads across the board on the same video then use the same technique
Ok..I get it...the CTD pads do a much better job of getting you closer to the grit of the pad but you were still far off of 2000 grit at 2100 and 2300 readings. With that you were closer to a 2500 grit pad...if I'm paying for a 1000 grit CTD pad, I want my ball to read 1000 grit otherwise what am I paying for? A pad that can't give me truly what grit I'm buying? smh
They have a chart that shows the abralon/manufacturer equivalent
500ctd=360
1000ctd=500
1500ctd=1000
And so on, the longer you use the pad the higher the surface. I've seen after about 15-20 uses my 1500ctd pads=2000 surface. We have a ball scanner to verify. I always go lower in surface because by the time 10 mins of practice is over your ball WILL be a quite different as far as the surface
I need a 80 grit pad Avalon I also need a 120 Avalon pad and a 220 Avalon pad I need all three of the Avalon pads
This is not an accurate comparison. If you want accuracy you have to do all the pads the exact same way…you did not !!
Lol it's an accurate comparison on how the pads are recommended to be used. 😉
It's pretty self-explanatory.
When I surface my ball, I do it by hand and dry. This is an apples to orange comparison, because wet sanding is COMPLETELY different than Dry sanding, just ask any auto body guy. Sorry Ronald but thumbs down.......
It's not meant to be apples to apples. It's meant to be how they would be used in real life. We have an additional product they don't have. We have plenty of apples to apple's comparison on this channel already.
I'm fairly new to bowling and have decided I want to start messing around with adjusting the surface of some equipment. I was considering buying a ball spinner. Do you think it's worth the $350 investment?