I was 24 yrs married to a narc/addict Divorce signed. I educate myself on codependency & covert & have really enjoyed this video. Relapse/recovery/relapse. Self medicating himself this time with steroids, gym, social media, gay porn possible bi sexual situation. It was all on his phone. I discarded 1-1-23, threw myself in trauma based therapy 3 mo prior to discard. Learning about ME & surrendering to all was empowering. I’m grateful for my yrs ahead @ 72 yr young. The ex had so much self hatred it is so obvious in the external people he had on his phone etc. In them there lies no sense of self.
My best friend passed away in September. My girlfriend never brought it up or asked me how I was coping with it. That was the beginning of the end. There were red flags from the start but they were subtle I just thought she was a bit strange I couldn't put my finger on it. I did notice she never told me she loved me and she lacked affection but she was sweet and was nice to me most of the time I thought she was shy that's all. She was asking for gifts and it was intensifying that was all she seemed interested in. I didnt dare say no. Eventually I did say no. That was the end of the relationship. I knew there was something up that I was being used. She's ghosted me ever since.
My husband is a covert narcissist. I happen to know for a fact he did not have any trauma in his childhood. He was overindulged by his parents to the maximum. Again, there was no trauma in his childhood. Ross, can you explain that? Narcissist that were created by being overindulged by their parents.
Yes. Read 'Too much and never enough' by Mary Trump It looks like too much. But it's not easy to see that they never got enough of the nurturing. Abundance is not parenting.
It could be something an elder said to them as a child. My mother is an NPD... she doted us... but my younger brother grew up as a Covert NPD (is malicious and sociopathatic). And I think my mother fostered and built up an NPD behavior in him but something my grandmother said to him as a kid changed it in my opinion.
When a child is being praised *too* *much* , they are being deprived of what I believe to be some kind of "ethical framework". The child would need to learn a fundamental difference between good and bad, like, don't be a dick, don't hurt people; yet, at the same time, do not stand for getting hurt *without* *a* *reason* . To a spoiled child, there is no such framework, and any notion of good and bad gets bound to the only other factor that's left: getting what they want. So they go on to think that, getting what I want is good, and not getting what I want is bad. They never learn to cope with any kind of rejection, frustration, or tie all this in their mind to the proper reasons of all that frustration happening, nor whether they should take a lesson for themselves for granted, or whether some unprovoked event really *is* worth condemning. This way of "raising" a child *IS* abuse. In my conviction, the key is not whether they are treated agreeable manner or not, the key is whether the entirety of the raising experience provides enough leads to develop a healthy, workable set of values.
Dr. Ramani speaks on Individuals who have NPD are either overindulged or underindulged by their parent or parents. The neglect is to the emotional part of a child. The overindulged were the kids where the parents ignored their emotions by throwing money or gifts to them. However they (parents) never regulated the child’s emotion. For example, not allowing the child to cry, sulk, or be disappointed. They may tell them to shut up or not cry etc instead of letting them and teaching them to self-soothing techniques.
I 100% agree with you. The antisocial aspect- significant lack of empathy, lack of guilt, no remorse, significant infidelity, financial abuse, manipulation of others for gain, etc, so 100% antisocial disorder and narcissist and people have not made this connection until now. Thank you very much.
@@patriciasegage499 If you don't mind, please explain. Were you abused or do you see yourself as the abuser? If this is too personal please forgive the intrusion.
This is true: THEY KNOW everything that they do even the times they hurt you. Be aware of these kind of individuals. Keep distance if possible. They do their evil laugh when they are alone in their room and I accidentally saw one, its my sister and I tell you the laugh is the most demonic laugh I ever heard in my life.
What Ross explains is what I've actually experienced both as an SLDD child in the making and as the unfortunate soul entrapped by a covert narcissist. No other behavioral psychologist has come anywhere near as close as Dr. Rosenberg to explain how I got to where I went, why I stayed so long, and what motivated me in the first place.
Lisa A. Romano explains it even better. In fact Ross Rosenberg recommended I join her Codependency group. I did and it is fabulous, especially for CPTSD.
Thank you for a great conversation. It has been very informative and supportive. I agree with the saying: What starts as a soul mate dream ends up as a cell mate nightmare! It is exactly the case.
Narcissism and antisocial combined is malignant narcissism. Covert narcissism is just a term created by Sam Vaknin that describes depressive masochistic self-defeating personality disorder that was removed from the DSM and is now categorized as a type of personality disorder not otherwise specified.
@ Mark W, Also my ex-man for 32 years. But his mother could not let her Kids live there own lifes. She don't like ower life, clothés, hair, food, etc. Every time she buys what she like what she founds what she want to wear clothes for him. She looks everytime what i Cook and that was never good enough. And he never said no to his mother. So, is hé become a psychopaat/narcist. Hé was her Prins.
My mother has no internally-generated sense of self. She's reflexively passive in the face of aggression by my malignant, verbally abusive brother. He reminds me very much of Mom's father, especially as we have all aged. Mom recently expressed anger to me over a church donation she made from funds that are held in the name of the family trust she and Dad set up. She was angry because she wanted to be personally acknowledged in the church bulletin. When I asked her why she made the donation, she gave the response that made her sound benevolent: to further the work of the church. She cannot acknowledge/doesn't see that her actual motivation for making the gift was to be personally acknowledged for it. It was insufficient, to her, that the gift benefitted the church and that she knew that it did. She needed the external love and acknowledgment of being the source. She couldn't give that to herself. There are so, so many examples, some very damaging and hurtful, of her being very :disappointed" by others failuing to reflect her adequately, even though they were doing nothing wrong at all. They were just making the choices that they felt were best for them - careers, mates, homes, etc. She has spent decades conveying her disdain and contempt for her children who "do whatever they want." Mind you, these are successful professionals in long-term, happy relationships with loving children. She's incapable of genuine happiness.
Does that mean so long as I haven’t overcome my co-dependent characteristics, I won’t be able to trust my feelings in terms of love and affection? And that whoever I may develop feelings for might be a narcissist?😢
I love this as I know I’m not codependent it’s bull shit ur so right… I’m an empath that contracted to come to come here to give the narc his karma I I’ve done that … I’m absolutely out now but I now have a sociopath son in law that has my grandsons… it’s epic it’s horrific his games I don’t know what to do I need help🙏🏽
Sam Vaknin quoted. Hit the child with a pedestal or place them on a pedestal, either way you are objectifying the child. Its abuse. Abuse comes in many forms covert is almost invisible and does the most damage, some children will never know the person they loved and was meant to protect them caused soo much damage.
My sister is blonde one if the worse most selfsh people ive ever met. I took care if get baby from 6 am to 6 pm because she had ut at age 18. .don't get kexstarted on her family. God knows I did everything I could for her .. She hasn't called me in in 24 years
Masterful actors, jet their endgame is quite the opposite just look what is behind their mask. Masterful isn’t the same story every time and keep doing the same thing, with obvious the same outcome, it’s plain insanity in a nutshell. It’s like telling a story about a tornado, and expect it to act out differently every time it’s reign ends. The nature of the act isn’t masterful, jet its committed to survive something that they created themselves as dysfunctional as is.
Can a "self love deficient person" fall in love with the same type of person and could it work? (I know narcs apparently cant make it with another narc). When one a person heals and then becomes a secure attachment type of personality, can they convert a "self love deficient" personality type person? Its SO sad that there are so many hurt people in this world. Thanks for this very informative video XXX
Thank you for your very helpful video!Can you tell me if your book is also translated into Greek and if it is sold in Greece or I can only buy it online?
I swear I think Ross is actually a covert narc. Listen how much he uses self-referential words - me, my, I, etc. And he interrupts and simply continues interruptimg and talking over her. It just strikes me as some pretty narcissistic behavior. I one of his other videos where he's answering questions submitted by people, he puts down other content creators that have come up with terms to examine some nuance of narcissism....saying he only holds to what's in the dsm V....yet, without seeing the hypocrisy, speaks of his term that he made up - SLD! Not to mention that covert narcissism is not in the DSM! Listen to him in any interview. I can't help but see him come across as a narcissist himself after listening to to much of his material on YT...
This to me just adds to the exhaustion of ending up with a covert narc, I came from a lovely family , dodgy older sister yes but no lack of love or worth . I made a great success of my life , my job, raised two wonderful children with whom I have a scrumptious open boundary driven relationship with. I have lots of long deep friendships but my husband was a traumatized covert narc that as I was with for 28 years, over the years I knew and voiced my views on his actions of course to deaf ears but felt stupidly it could get better that was my bad , giving him the benefit of the doubt not that I thought I wasn’t unworthy of love or didn’t deserve it I knew I did, I just wanted better for him and my children’s father . Giving up on it too soon meant my children wouldn’t safely get to see what he actually was. They still have to deal with the fact that their father can’t care for them in any substantial way that meets their needs. They found a person who cared about human needs without having a diagnoses of being a narcissist and incapable of change or growth.
So much of me, myself and I in everything Dr. Rosenberg says. Then there are the interruptions and talking over. Whilst there were some good points it felt like seeing a Narcissist in action. Then there is all the stammering and irritating speech mannerisms, making it very difficult for the viewer.
Aww, that's how you feel? Well, here's my take on him. He demonstrates healthy narcissism. I just believe his interruptions were a sign of the enthusiasm he experienced at interviewing this very interesting woman. I think Ross is still open and teachable. He is wonderful. Does that give you another take on him? After all he is an example of a recovered SLD person. That took a lot of work on his part. Thanks for listening.☺👍👏
OK I have to say this. This guy has got some red flags for narcissism. He doesn’t even introduced or thank her for being there, and then he talks for almost 15 minutes straight before Renee even says one thing. Victims of narcissism we all have patients coming out from every orifice. This guy should take a look at himself in the mirror, and have a little more respect for his guest. Love you, Renee.
The damage that covert narcissists do to the soul is out of this world.
I was 24 yrs married to a narc/addict
Divorce signed. I educate myself on codependency & covert & have really enjoyed this video.
Relapse/recovery/relapse. Self medicating himself this time with steroids, gym, social media, gay porn possible bi sexual situation. It was all on his phone. I discarded 1-1-23, threw myself in trauma based therapy
3 mo prior to discard.
Learning about ME & surrendering to all was empowering. I’m grateful for my yrs ahead @ 72 yr young.
The ex had so much self hatred it is so obvious in the external people he had on his phone etc. In them there lies no sense of self.
My best friend passed away in September. My girlfriend never brought it up or asked me how I was coping with it. That was the beginning of the end. There were red flags from the start but they were subtle I just thought she was a bit strange I couldn't put my finger on it. I did notice she never told me she loved me and she lacked affection but she was sweet and was nice to me most of the time I thought she was shy that's all. She was asking for gifts and it was intensifying that was all she seemed interested in. I didnt dare say no. Eventually I did say no. That was the end of the relationship. I knew there was something up that I was being used. She's ghosted me ever since.
My husband is a covert narcissist. I happen to know for a fact he did not have any trauma in his childhood. He was overindulged by his parents to the maximum. Again, there was no trauma in his childhood. Ross, can you explain that? Narcissist that were created by being overindulged by their parents.
Yes. Read 'Too much and never enough' by Mary Trump
It looks like too much. But it's not easy to see that they never got enough of the nurturing.
Abundance is not parenting.
It could be something an elder said to them as a child. My mother is an NPD... she doted us... but my younger brother grew up as a Covert NPD (is malicious and sociopathatic). And I think my mother fostered and built up an NPD behavior in him but something my grandmother said to him as a kid changed it in my opinion.
Overindulgence is abuse according to Sam Vaknin. He is here on TH-cam, with great information on Narcissisim.
When a child is being praised *too* *much* , they are being deprived of what I believe to be some kind of "ethical framework". The child would need to learn a fundamental difference between good and bad, like, don't be a dick, don't hurt people; yet, at the same time, do not stand for getting hurt *without* *a* *reason* . To a spoiled child, there is no such framework, and any notion of good and bad gets bound to the only other factor that's left: getting what they want. So they go on to think that, getting what I want is good, and not getting what I want is bad. They never learn to cope with any kind of rejection, frustration, or tie all this in their mind to the proper reasons of all that frustration happening, nor whether they should take a lesson for themselves for granted, or whether some unprovoked event really *is* worth condemning. This way of "raising" a child *IS* abuse. In my conviction, the key is not whether they are treated agreeable manner or not, the key is whether the entirety of the raising experience provides enough leads to develop a healthy, workable set of values.
Dr. Ramani speaks on Individuals who have NPD are either overindulged or underindulged by their parent or parents. The neglect is to the emotional part of a child. The overindulged were the kids where the parents ignored their emotions by throwing money or gifts to them. However they (parents) never regulated the child’s emotion. For example, not allowing the child to cry, sulk, or be disappointed. They may tell them to shut up or not cry etc instead of letting them and teaching them to self-soothing techniques.
I 100% agree with you. The antisocial aspect- significant lack of empathy, lack of guilt, no remorse, significant infidelity, financial abuse, manipulation of others for gain, etc, so 100% antisocial disorder and narcissist and people have not made this connection until now. Thank you very much.
They are DANGEROUS too!!!
I can't listen anymore, my life is being described word by word. Going to get some wine. BTW my daughter fled my grips. The most pain I've ever felt.
@@patriciasegage499 I understand exactly what you mean 😢
@@patriciasegage499 If you don't mind, please explain. Were you abused or do you see yourself as the abuser? If this is too personal please forgive the intrusion.
I thought my husband of 40 yrs was bi polar but when I discovered NPD he checks all the boxes for this 😵💫
Same
Me too
This is true: THEY KNOW everything that they do even the times they hurt you. Be aware of these kind of individuals. Keep distance if possible. They do their evil laugh when they are alone in their room and I accidentally saw one, its my sister and I tell you the laugh is the most demonic laugh I ever heard in my life.
What Ross explains is what I've actually experienced both as an SLDD child in the making and as the unfortunate soul entrapped by a covert narcissist. No other behavioral psychologist has come anywhere near as close as Dr. Rosenberg to explain how I got to where I went, why I stayed so long, and what motivated me in the first place.
Lisa A. Romano explains it even better. In fact Ross Rosenberg recommended I join her Codependency group. I did and it is fabulous, especially for CPTSD.
@@adimeter where is that group?
My mother is a covert narc. She fits his definition. She has APD. And his explanation opened my eyes to this reality.
My mom too. I'm sorry. Wishing you well on your healing journey.
Thank you for a great conversation. It has been very informative and supportive. I agree with the saying: What starts as a soul mate dream ends up as a cell mate nightmare! It is exactly the case.
💯💯🎯narcissists cannot experience self love if they get CBT it changes behavior for a short time then goes back to same behavior after...
Kids can’t just be narcs they are taught this shit 😮😢😮😢😮
Ross thank you so much for all work and teachings. I would of not understood my past suffering without you.
You are very welcome, James.
Hi Ross, thank you so so much for revealing and solving great mysteries for me and for us, God bless you and Renee.
Thanks for the Upload guys!!! Blessings to all in Jesus name amen!!!
I love listening to Renee, looking forward to more podcasts
Thanks for sharing this video!
Learnig with your teachings!!
The best to do is no contact and take care yourself.
I really appreciate your teaching style. I enjoy your videos. thank you
You are very welcome
SLDD the most precise definition
Mr. Rosenberg, your knowledge and message are spot on and very helpful. Your habit of interrupting, however, doesn't support that message.
Thank you
Yes, I have seen all of this is family members.
Narcissism and antisocial combined is malignant narcissism. Covert narcissism is just a term created by Sam Vaknin that describes depressive masochistic self-defeating personality disorder that was removed from the DSM and is now categorized as a type of personality disorder not otherwise specified.
Thank you Ross 🙏
My sister is a sociopath. We didn't grow up in a particularly abusive home.
@ Mark W,
Also my ex-man for 32 years. But his mother could not let her Kids live there own lifes. She don't like ower life, clothés, hair, food, etc. Every time she buys what she like what she founds what she want to wear clothes for him. She looks everytime what i Cook and that was never good enough. And he never said no to his mother. So, is hé become a psychopaat/narcist. Hé was her Prins.
If you’re sure she wasn’t made, why do you say sociopath and not psychopath?
My God you just describe my mother and I
Thank You ~
My mother has no internally-generated sense of self. She's reflexively passive in the face of aggression by my malignant, verbally abusive brother. He reminds me very much of Mom's father, especially as we have all aged. Mom recently expressed anger to me over a church donation she made from funds that are held in the name of the family trust she and Dad set up. She was angry because she wanted to be personally acknowledged in the church bulletin. When I asked her why she made the donation, she gave the response that made her sound benevolent: to further the work of the church. She cannot acknowledge/doesn't see that her actual motivation for making the gift was to be personally acknowledged for it. It was insufficient, to her, that the gift benefitted the church and that she knew that it did. She needed the external love and acknowledgment of being the source. She couldn't give that to herself. There are so, so many examples, some very damaging and hurtful, of her being very :disappointed" by others failuing to reflect her adequately, even though they were doing nothing wrong at all. They were just making the choices that they felt were best for them - careers, mates, homes, etc. She has spent decades conveying her disdain and contempt for her children who "do whatever they want." Mind you, these are successful professionals in long-term, happy relationships with loving children. She's incapable of genuine happiness.
They think they are absolutely perfect 😂😂😂😂😂😂❤❤❤🙌🙌🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
😂
Does that mean so long as I haven’t overcome my co-dependent characteristics, I won’t be able to trust my feelings in terms of love and affection? And that whoever I may develop feelings for might be a narcissist?😢
What happens when those two personalities interact when forced to face their reality?
I love this as I know I’m not codependent it’s bull shit ur so right… I’m an empath that contracted to come to come here to give the narc his karma I I’ve done that … I’m absolutely out now but I now have a sociopath son in law that has my grandsons… it’s epic it’s horrific his games I don’t know what to do I need help🙏🏽
Ross, my parents did not experience terrible childhood trauma yet are extremely narcissistic. Are there other causes?
Sam Vaknin quoted. Hit the child with a pedestal or place them on a pedestal, either way you are objectifying the child. Its abuse. Abuse comes in many forms covert is almost invisible and does the most damage, some children will never know the person they loved and was meant to protect them caused soo much damage.
@@mechweld Thanks for the quote.
My sister is blonde one if the worse most selfsh people ive ever met. I took care if get baby from 6 am to 6 pm because she had ut at age 18. .don't get kexstarted on her family. God knows I did everything I could for her .. She hasn't called me in in 24 years
Great interview ❤
I agree with everything he is saying.
I still cant see the lack of empathy. All the other signs are visible!
LOL I rmbr that Blues Brother's scene!
Masterful actors, jet their endgame is quite the opposite just look what is behind their mask. Masterful isn’t the same story every time and keep doing the same thing, with obvious the same outcome, it’s plain insanity in a nutshell. It’s like telling a story about a tornado, and expect it to act out differently every time it’s reign ends. The nature of the act isn’t masterful, jet its committed to survive something that they created themselves as dysfunctional as is.
Can a "self love deficient person" fall in love with the same type of person and could it work? (I know narcs apparently cant make it with another narc).
When one a person heals and then becomes a secure attachment type of personality, can they convert a "self love deficient" personality type person?
Its SO sad that there are so many hurt people in this world.
Thanks for this very informative video XXX
Sociopathy = non social, gradious, non empathic.
Narcissistic = overt, obvious gradious. Covert, not obvious gradious.
Psychopath, liar, fake, friendly, irresponsible, non emotional.
what is gradious?
@@lallalucas4145 grandiose
14 yrs have seen it all.Sick people I knew wat I was getting into.She was my side chick.empaths n narc.can b a game.
Thank you for your very helpful video!Can you tell me if your book is also translated into Greek and if it is sold in Greece or I can only buy it online?
It's quite rude for Ross to interrupt when Renee is speaking. Let her speak and finish!
I swear I think Ross is actually a covert narc. Listen how much he uses self-referential words - me, my, I, etc. And he interrupts and simply continues interruptimg and talking over her.
It just strikes me as some pretty narcissistic behavior.
I one of his other videos where he's answering questions submitted by people, he puts down other content creators that have come up with terms to examine some nuance of narcissism....saying he only holds to what's in the dsm V....yet, without seeing the hypocrisy, speaks of his term that he made up - SLD! Not to mention that covert narcissism is not in the DSM!
Listen to him in any interview. I can't help but see him come across as a narcissist himself after listening to to much of his material on YT...
Honestly I thought there was a lag in the audio?
Pedistalizing is abuse also!
This to me just adds to the exhaustion of ending up with a covert narc, I came from a lovely family , dodgy older sister yes but no lack of love or worth . I made a great success of my life , my job, raised two wonderful children with whom I have a scrumptious open boundary driven relationship with.
I have lots of long deep friendships but my husband was a traumatized covert narc that as I was with for 28 years, over the years I knew and voiced my views on his actions of course to deaf ears but felt stupidly it could get better that was my bad , giving him the benefit of the doubt not that I thought I wasn’t unworthy of love or didn’t deserve it I knew I did, I just wanted better for him and my children’s father . Giving up on it too soon meant my children wouldn’t safely get to see what he actually was. They still have to deal with the fact that their father can’t care for them in any substantial way that meets their needs.
They found a person who cared about human needs without having a diagnoses of being a narcissist and incapable of change or growth.
Yay for you. That's a beautiful post. Thank you😚👏👍
❤❤❤❤❤
Street angel, house devil..
Being jealous of the dead wow 🙏🏽🙌💯💥
I had one say I am oftly crafty I said I dont doubt it. I am great just ask me
The devil. Read Genesis CHP 3
split
So much of me, myself and I in everything Dr. Rosenberg says. Then there are the interruptions and talking over. Whilst there were some good points it felt like seeing a Narcissist in action. Then there is all the stammering and irritating speech mannerisms, making it very difficult for the viewer.
Aww, that's how you feel? Well, here's my take on him. He demonstrates healthy narcissism. I just believe his interruptions were a sign of the enthusiasm he experienced at interviewing this very interesting woman. I think Ross is still open and teachable. He is wonderful. Does that give you another take on him? After all he is an example of a recovered SLD person. That took a lot of work on his part. Thanks for listening.☺👍👏
OK I have to say this. This guy has got some red flags for narcissism. He doesn’t even introduced or thank her for being there, and then he talks for almost 15 minutes straight before Renee even says one thing. Victims of narcissism we all have patients coming out from every orifice. This guy should take a look at himself in the mirror, and have a little more respect for his guest. Love you, Renee.
They know somthing is wrong and still do nothing. Watching a dysfunctional other my entire life what the actual fuck.
She was a politician
Covert narcissists love their false self but hate their true self. They love that which is false and hate that which is true. Pure evil.
Ross you've a habit of cutting across your guests. Let them speak, or a least finish their sentence.
Tfw there r too many narcissistic councilor
You notice he always talks over her? Isn't that a narcissistic trait?