Cool content. Thanks for making this video. Also it’s rad to see your kids placing these anchors, how cool to have the experience they do at such a young age. Time spent outdoors with my dad consistently made for what are currently my fondest memories. I bet your two guys will feel the same way when they’re my age. They will also have a ton of great knowledge to pass on to the next generation.
Appreciate that. And it's been fun "reliving" these experiences with the kids when the videos come out. Thanks for watching and dropping the comment! 🙏 Hope you continue to like the future videos.
That's a tough question to answer, as it is - assuming you don't make construction errors - almost completely dependent upon snow conditions. There is a video by the guys at HowNot2, where they make something similar, with a few caveats. Start watching at 6:38. th-cam.com/video/TOy6Gav__dU/w-d-xo.html What is different. They are in the Pacific Northwest of the US, which is a "maritime snowpack" type. They are saying in the video that snow conditions "are bad," but we don't really get a sense of specifics. It's not a retrievable anchor, but it is similar in design. They are using 90cm pickets instead of 60cm (which I use and recommend). There is a belief that these longer pickets are actually weaker in some conditions because the forces applied to the very ends of the pickets is greater if you have a pull from the middle of the picket; the ends are farther away from the pull location (think: it's a bigger lever effect the farther away the pull is from the forces on the ends). They also built this with the vertical picket in front rather than behind and the pull force is coming from a soft shackle that is at the intersection of those two pickets. This is also thought to weaken the anchor on 90cm pickets (compared to the other configurations) because it's like pulling at the middle of a big "x." Again, the ends take a greater force because they are far away from the pull location. The anchor ends up failing because the horizontal picket actually bends in half around the vertical picket, after just over 8Kn of force. I imagine that making it retrievable does actually weaken things, a bit, if for no other reason than you've got wider trenches for the various snakes of rope running in and around things. But, "super good enough," That being said, could loose snow make this really weak? Yeah. Testing the anchor strength is key, before committing. And if you are dubious, maybe alternative methods (lowering a climber, belayed rappel, etc.) should be employed. As far as how hard to pull the anchor, the first pull on the vertical picket is pretty easy, my kid can do it. The second pull on the horizontal picket is pretty hard. Usually has taken both climbers pulling a few times, in sync, for me to get it out. Hope that helps.
Ya I saw that video from HowNotTo. Was fun tho pretty difficult to judge how much load it would carry in better conditions, so thanks for the in depth reply and insights. I don't have a lot of experience and have only really seen people use ice axes for the anker instead of pickets. Never seen or heard of this technique so it's very interesting. I did also stumble upon this video: th-cam.com/video/XoBXrDrLo2E/w-d-xo.html . In that video it seems pretty easy to dislodge, but you mention needing 2 people and multiple tugs. I'm wondering whether if your kid can dislodge the vertical picket easily whether accidentally loading the pull strand, by stepping on it or getting it stuck while rapelling or whatever, could get it dislodged while rapelling or whether there's a chance you can't get the horizontal picket to dislodge at all if the snow we're in a particularly "strong" condition. I'd love your insight :)
@@tomasbenders922 It is definitely possible to "accidentally" tug the pull strand when you don't want to. IT getting stuck or stepping on it shouldn't matter, as it will take a consistent tug on it to dislodge the vertical picket, but we must be careful and manage that strand , which is why I spend a lot of time making sure people are setting up their devices and such before even covering the pickets. As far as it becoming impossible to pull down the horizontal, I think it is a probability greater than zero, but not a high probability. You are only burying that picket 30cm down. It would take some serious freeze/thaw to lock it in place. Maybe if you left it overnight, it could happen (which would be a weird thing to do on multiple rappels).
Cool content. Thanks for making this video. Also it’s rad to see your kids placing these anchors, how cool to have the experience they do at such a young age. Time spent outdoors with my dad consistently made for what are currently my fondest memories. I bet your two guys will feel the same way when they’re my age. They will also have a ton of great knowledge to pass on to the next generation.
Appreciate that. And it's been fun "reliving" these experiences with the kids when the videos come out. Thanks for watching and dropping the comment! 🙏 Hope you continue to like the future videos.
How much force does the pull strand require to dislodge the anker? Is there any risk dislodging it too early under load?
That's a tough question to answer, as it is - assuming you don't make construction errors - almost completely dependent upon snow conditions. There is a video by the guys at HowNot2, where they make something similar, with a few caveats. Start watching at 6:38. th-cam.com/video/TOy6Gav__dU/w-d-xo.html What is different. They are in the Pacific Northwest of the US, which is a "maritime snowpack" type. They are saying in the video that snow conditions "are bad," but we don't really get a sense of specifics. It's not a retrievable anchor, but it is similar in design. They are using 90cm pickets instead of 60cm (which I use and recommend). There is a belief that these longer pickets are actually weaker in some conditions because the forces applied to the very ends of the pickets is greater if you have a pull from the middle of the picket; the ends are farther away from the pull location (think: it's a bigger lever effect the farther away the pull is from the forces on the ends). They also built this with the vertical picket in front rather than behind and the pull force is coming from a soft shackle that is at the intersection of those two pickets. This is also thought to weaken the anchor on 90cm pickets (compared to the other configurations) because it's like pulling at the middle of a big "x." Again, the ends take a greater force because they are far away from the pull location. The anchor ends up failing because the horizontal picket actually bends in half around the vertical picket, after just over 8Kn of force. I imagine that making it retrievable does actually weaken things, a bit, if for no other reason than you've got wider trenches for the various snakes of rope running in and around things. But, "super good enough," That being said, could loose snow make this really weak? Yeah. Testing the anchor strength is key, before committing. And if you are dubious, maybe alternative methods (lowering a climber, belayed rappel, etc.) should be employed. As far as how hard to pull the anchor, the first pull on the vertical picket is pretty easy, my kid can do it. The second pull on the horizontal picket is pretty hard. Usually has taken both climbers pulling a few times, in sync, for me to get it out. Hope that helps.
Ya I saw that video from HowNotTo. Was fun tho pretty difficult to judge how much load it would carry in better conditions, so thanks for the in depth reply and insights. I don't have a lot of experience and have only really seen people use ice axes for the anker instead of pickets. Never seen or heard of this technique so it's very interesting. I did also stumble upon this video: th-cam.com/video/XoBXrDrLo2E/w-d-xo.html . In that video it seems pretty easy to dislodge, but you mention needing 2 people and multiple tugs. I'm wondering whether if your kid can dislodge the vertical picket easily whether accidentally loading the pull strand, by stepping on it or getting it stuck while rapelling or whatever, could get it dislodged while rapelling or whether there's a chance you can't get the horizontal picket to dislodge at all if the snow we're in a particularly "strong" condition. I'd love your insight :)
@@tomasbenders922 It is definitely possible to "accidentally" tug the pull strand when you don't want to. IT getting stuck or stepping on it shouldn't matter, as it will take a consistent tug on it to dislodge the vertical picket, but we must be careful and manage that strand , which is why I spend a lot of time making sure people are setting up their devices and such before even covering the pickets. As far as it becoming impossible to pull down the horizontal, I think it is a probability greater than zero, but not a high probability. You are only burying that picket 30cm down. It would take some serious freeze/thaw to lock it in place. Maybe if you left it overnight, it could happen (which would be a weird thing to do on multiple rappels).
Great Thanks!