As a tank main since 2017 I've recently started counterpicking a different game and actually enjoying my self, but I'm still hopeful blizz will nerf this strat by making tank playable again.
@@big.shrimpin I play all the arts and I am the number one fan of counterpicking as it allows me to pick unhinged stuff and dominate, and even I have to say, counterpicking in overwatch has gotten out of hands and they need to return 6s or I will continue my open queue the very few times I play overwatch these days
As someone who basically otps JQ since season 2, I can say that someone FINALLY shares my take on rein's matchup. (btw. bring back 6v6, JQ would be so good as an off-tank next to a rein, ram, mauga, or even on double off-tank with zarya)
These archetypes apply to all games with different characters, skills and setups, even single player games. Target priority in Dragon Age games, for example, follows this logic: divers (rogues) go after squishier and more important targets (mages, archers...), brawlers/duelists (tanks and meele mages and rogues) take enemies head-on and distract them, and sentinels (mages and certain rogue and tank specializations) give support to the team with buffs, barriers, evasion... It's very helpful, coach Lyte. Thank you.
Having tried some tank after getting sick of dps, a lot of those Freelo matchups are too real (being forced to play near perfect against skill-less heroes like Hog & Mauga even on a good map for characters like Winston just isn't fun). Biggest letdown of 5v5, the supposed "more room for individual playmaking" game, is how one sided tank match-ups became. I'm dying for at least a 6v6 arcade gamemode.
Fantastic guide. You are also hilarious as fuck, which makes the guide actually interesting to watch. Keep up the work. You are already my favorite overwatch creator.
I've been struggling vs rammatra, and when you showed his match up chart I was like oh yeah that makes sense those 5 tanks are the ones I normally play with dva and sigma being my mains.. I've recently picked up Winston tho so I'm hoping that helps
I can see the argument for sure and it’s definitely better than it used to be but if the Mauga is good and doesn’t get his e baited out and take unnecessary poke you’ll still get fried esp if his team is shooting your shield
first time playing against Mauga I almost had a stroke. Fire + Lifesteal + no headshot crits + cage fight. Its ridiculous he managed to get past playtesting. Its like they purposefully designed a character to have zero intuitive playmaking to work around for the noobs to climb. No fun to play in any way, just the worst.
Im a ball onetrick, I feel the tier list is extremely good besides reins placement, In my experience being able to split reins attention between your team and yourself enables your team (if they have brains) to burst the shit out of him while the supports are also distracted and/or deal some decent damage to him or his healers yourself before quickly escaping. In my oppinion he should be in winning against rein or at least some tier between neutral and winning (eg: soft-winning). one additonal note is that you can basically tank double fire strike or just fully dodge it making his burst combo useless and dont even try to hit charge on ball lmao!
I’m a big dive player, but if my teams needs a brawl I’m still great with them. Ik it’s pretty common, but as the tank in my stack, I’m most of the time the igl. It’s great seeing this vid as my game knowledge about tank has just increased. So ty
I'm probably too low ranked for this video because I rarely have any problems dealing with Rein as JQ. The only thing I really have to watch out for consistently is shatter.
Ion even play ow anymore an I’m just glad that the handsomest and smartest tactical mastermind on the planet is making banger vids. I feel truly enlightened and will be spreading the good word!
As a masters one trick ball is kinda map dependent if your on something like circuit that benefits from snipers then you’ll be rolling but big open maps like the first point of Rialto parasio or even Havana you’ll have to stick the sides
Playing some JQ, I thought roadhog is the worst matchup, statchecks you and outdoes you in everything, it's like having to outdle an eldritch monster. I think she is trash, why would I pick her when I can be the roadhog? The most noteworthy tank matchup for me playing OW2
I really enjoy your content! keep bringing the heat, the only way we get games better and push for better than absolute garbage of pixels is by valid criticism.
So, I really love your previous video too (the first one I saw by you,) but 1:25 made me laugh out LOUD. I'm not involved in any of these games anymore but you earned a sub from me brother.
haven't played overwatch since shortly after goats in 1, so have no idea why YT is recommending OW2 vids, but enjoyed this and the 6v6 video a lot. maybe i'll try OW2 out but i have absolutely no hands so i'll probably be back on support ;_:
sort of, it depends on the dps in question, the map, and the rank. To many variables for me to factor in a 1 video but if you have any specific questions feel free to ask
42:00 I would argue Zarya has a losing matchup against Rein. As the Zarya, I have to concede a ton of space while I try to build charge and wittle down his shield. Even at full charge breaking the shield takes forever. Then when Rein gets up close his hammer beats anything I can do and I can't escape.
i do believe you underrate some of dvas tank 1v1 potential as she likely has a winning matchup against roadhog and rein and likely has a winning matchup against winston but it changes with the meta
Winston was never winning at the highest levels of play it was neutral at best but still probably slightly losing for her. Now a days it’s definitely in his favor cause of the reasons I listed in the video. She doesn’t counter hog becuase hog is to tanky for her to do anything towards and he can just poke you out and also hook people and turn them behind walls so you can’t mateix
Excited to see how you feel bout Marvel Rivals, I've been enjoying the playtest a lot, and I'd like to hear what you think the game should improve or expand upon (Delete Scarlet Witch)
nice tutorial I will use it in qp not to ruin peoples games but to avoid my games being ruined all jokes aside I know counters already but I wanted to hear your reactions I think we both can agree 6v6 is a must and to be honest I never played overwatch 1
i actually think dooms matchup after the post mid season 11 patch with maugas cardiac overdrive only being 3 seconds now is heavily favored for doom. the only way you die to mauga now is if you engage a mauga with punch into him with no slam, block or ult. if you have any of these CDs (maybe not just block cause that assumes mauga just shoots your block like a bot so u can get emp punch reset), you just bait cardiac, get out, come back and kill him. imo cage is the only way a mauga can kill doom now and its honestly kinda easy to bait it with ult, slam or punch.
Came back to ow for the first time since ow1 this week, and yeah, the counter picking meta is so prevalent my dumbass figured out it's necessity by myself. This'll save me the struggle of having to think about my matchups as a tank main
As t500 Orisa otp with 1000 hours on her- Zarya has THE easiest play-around out of them ALL. Extremely easy- u just dont charge her and take cover when she bubbles herself to avoid all the unecessary incoming damage, and start hard focusing her whenever she tries to push u- set up boundries. Zarya will understand shes useless against u and will swap. DVa is THE HARD counter. Literally no play around aganst DVa in the current reality. Sigma is very easy. Ram is hard. Winston is also dive as DVa, but at least u have a change to pusnish Winston when he dives you by prevent him from escaping. Rein is 50/50, because yes you prevent Rein from doing anything on the map, but u also being useless at the same time while doing so. On Orisa you have to carry by making kills, Rein's 1600 hp shield doesnt allow u to do so (same as DVa's matrix, prevent u from killing anything) so in games where Orisa isnt allowed to make kills- whoever has better DPS wins.
Maybe I’m wrong but I personally don’t think doom is that bad with a brig zen backline, mostly because you can pick and choose when u take damage, so you just have to play a lot safer and slower. Though I feel it’s largely dependent on the enemy comp
Can you help me understand your interpretation of Sigma's matchup against Rein? I believe that, given Rein's limited vertical mobility, on nearly all maps with high-ground, Sigma could easily poke out any Rein and prevent him from making it in range to swing. Now obviously, if sig was on attack, it would be a different story; however, on defense, I feel sig has a clear advantage, no?
Depends on your team comp but you can either charge across chokes or use ur shield to cover. Recharge your resourches and go again. Then once your on level ground with him you just pin at him if he rocks you cancle pin and shield and then he's in a bad spot
I think that dva should be in losing for hog just because of dm shutting down hooks and is able to shred him and has the mobility to dodge him when needed
Why would Doom be bad into mauga? Absorb his damage, knock him back, avoid him, ult away from his ult, no? I dont play doom but it doesnt sound that bad
Cause he outsustains you and shreds you. The knock back isn’t enough and if u shift past him and it’s not onto a high ground he just charges at you and kills you. Cage fight prevents you from ulting too
I'm gonna watch this whole video knowing damn well I'm still going to one trick winton.
@@Re8orn giga chad
same except it’s doom for me
same but with zarya
The pfp is just a selfie
Rein for me 💪
As a tank main since 2017 I've recently started counterpicking a different game and actually enjoying my self, but I'm still hopeful blizz will nerf this strat by making tank playable again.
@@big.shrimpin I play all the arts and I am the number one fan of counterpicking as it allows me to pick unhinged stuff and dominate, and even I have to say, counterpicking in overwatch has gotten out of hands and they need to return 6s or I will continue my open queue the very few times I play overwatch these days
the stare when you got to mauga finished me hhhhh
pause
pause
man rock paper scissors watch is such a great game
counterwatch is sure amazing
5v5ers will look at Mauga gameplay and say "hell yeah"
Ladies and gentlemen, we made a hero that's even worse design to heavy from TF2
I am a Mauga apologist all because the crit sounds tickle my monkey brain
@@geoDB.so true, how the frick did they do it?
@@geoDB.This. They had the ability to see Heavy, find his flaws, and minimize them.
Instead, they only magnified them.
this and the 6v6 video have single handedly renewed my interest in ow
Me too. This guy is a saint!
As someone who basically otps JQ since season 2, I can say that someone FINALLY shares my take on rein's matchup. (btw. bring back 6v6, JQ would be so good as an off-tank next to a rein, ram, mauga, or even on double off-tank with zarya)
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These archetypes apply to all games with different characters, skills and setups, even single player games.
Target priority in Dragon Age games, for example, follows this logic: divers (rogues) go after squishier and more important targets (mages, archers...), brawlers/duelists (tanks and meele mages and rogues) take enemies head-on and distract them, and sentinels (mages and certain rogue and tank specializations) give support to the team with buffs, barriers, evasion...
It's very helpful, coach Lyte. Thank you.
you bring the anger i feel playing the game into your vids W Lyte
Having tried some tank after getting sick of dps, a lot of those Freelo matchups are too real (being forced to play near perfect against skill-less heroes like Hog & Mauga even on a good map for characters like Winston just isn't fun). Biggest letdown of 5v5, the supposed "more room for individual playmaking" game, is how one sided tank match-ups became. I'm dying for at least a 6v6 arcade gamemode.
I really dig your content bro, make more for us 6v6 warriors please 🙏
🙏
I love the attitude and personality you make videos with, feels like I'm back in the good old days. Very nice guide.
Fantastic guide. You are also hilarious as fuck, which makes the guide actually interesting to watch. Keep up the work. You are already my favorite overwatch creator.
@@Gryntetryne 💪
Nice video. I don't play overwatch much anymore but I still appreciate the informative and well constructed video.
Im gonna set my 2nd monitor background to a collage of all the tier lists so I never have to turn my brain on
please post it somewhere i need this !
I've been struggling vs rammatra, and when you showed his match up chart I was like oh yeah that makes sense those 5 tanks are the ones I normally play with dva and sigma being my mains.. I've recently picked up Winston tho so I'm hoping that helps
Queen is why 5v5 is a disaster. Shes so fun, she just can't tank for shit.
Queen would work fine as an off tank for 6s. I still think she likes ds though lmao
You are not supposed to face tank like a Rein
Rein is actually neutral into mauga especially sfter cardiac nerf, can easily just shield him and let dps shoot him and hold corners against him
I can see the argument for sure and it’s definitely better than it used to be but if the Mauga is good and doesn’t get his e baited out and take unnecessary poke you’ll still get fried esp if his team is shooting your shield
also ramattra generates 3% of ult for each enemy hit with nemesis form. And he hits multiple targets. This is very important thing!
Good work today king 🗿
bro might be the funniest most underated content creator ever i was laughing my ass off to all your videos man
first time playing against Mauga I almost had a stroke. Fire + Lifesteal + no headshot crits + cage fight. Its ridiculous he managed to get past playtesting. Its like they purposefully designed a character to have zero intuitive playmaking to work around for the noobs to climb. No fun to play in any way, just the worst.
Genuinely makes Orisa appealing to watch, its fucked up
@@plokijuhygtfrfDude I actually liked overwatch 1 orisa
Awesome work puting all this together, but tbh I hope they confirm that 6v6 is coming back to ow2 so we don't need to use this video lol
Agree with ball tier list place. I loved playing ball and I loves especially destroying teams with that rat.
please make a more detailed video on archetypes, that made so much more sense to me than just tank/dps/support
Im a ball onetrick, I feel the tier list is extremely good besides reins placement, In my experience being able to split reins attention between your team and yourself enables your team (if they have brains) to burst the shit out of him while the supports are also distracted and/or deal some decent damage to him or his healers yourself before quickly escaping. In my oppinion he should be in winning against rein or at least some tier between neutral and winning (eg: soft-winning). one additonal note is that you can basically tank double fire strike or just fully dodge it making his burst combo useless and dont even try to hit charge on ball lmao!
I’m a big dive player, but if my teams needs a brawl I’m still great with them. Ik it’s pretty common, but as the tank in my stack, I’m most of the time the igl. It’s great seeing this vid as my game knowledge about tank has just increased. So ty
I'm probably too low ranked for this video because I rarely have any problems dealing with Rein as JQ. The only thing I really have to watch out for consistently is shatter.
These videos are super entertaining even for a person like me, who has never played overwatch.
I'm a flex support but I just like hearing what you have to say, plus your delivery is refreshing, no sugarcoating. Cool vid man
Ion even play ow anymore an I’m just glad that the handsomest and smartest tactical mastermind on the planet is making banger vids. I feel truly enlightened and will be spreading the good word!
As a masters one trick ball is kinda map dependent if your on something like circuit that benefits from snipers then you’ll be rolling but big open maps like the first point of Rialto parasio or even Havana you’ll have to stick the sides
Playing some JQ, I thought roadhog is the worst matchup, statchecks you and outdoes you in everything, it's like having to outdle an eldritch monster. I think she is trash, why would I pick her when I can be the roadhog? The most noteworthy tank matchup for me playing OW2
cause shout is better for your team shes just reliant on your dps being good and having coordination
@@lytepk junkerqueen has been unstoppable for me!
in silver
this video is very good, you got me watching it being a widow onetrick hahah
Great information and humour, I'm subscribing instantly
Great video only thing holding it back is the mic quality
Love this channel
I really enjoy your content! keep bringing the heat, the only way we get games better and push for better than absolute garbage of pixels is by valid criticism.
Interested in your Ow background as a coach and former collegiate player - would love to see a video on how you got started 👍
We might’ve just won
So, I really love your previous video too (the first one I saw by you,) but 1:25 made me laugh out LOUD. I'm not involved in any of these games anymore but you earned a sub from me brother.
Thanks for the video! I might even come back to OW😅
haven't played overwatch since shortly after goats in 1, so have no idea why YT is recommending OW2 vids, but enjoyed this and the 6v6 video a lot. maybe i'll try OW2 out but i have absolutely no hands so i'll probably be back on support ;_:
Very entertaining and informative video
By the way, does the tank match up chart change even if both enemy dps counter picks you
sort of, it depends on the dps in question, the map, and the rank. To many variables for me to factor in a 1 video but if you have any specific questions feel free to ask
@@lytepk the dps in question is cassidy, I usually pick it when enemy runs dive tanks that just runs over my tank
Im a support main and I have no idea why im watching this but this was a really fun and informative watch
This video is so good. Cant wait for more
42:00 I would argue Zarya has a losing matchup against Rein. As the Zarya, I have to concede a ton of space while I try to build charge and wittle down his shield. Even at full charge breaking the shield takes forever. Then when Rein gets up close his hammer beats anything I can do and I can't escape.
i do believe you underrate some of dvas tank 1v1 potential as she likely has a winning matchup against roadhog and rein and likely has a winning matchup against winston but it changes with the meta
Winston was never winning at the highest levels of play it was neutral at best but still probably slightly losing for her. Now a days it’s definitely in his favor cause of the reasons I listed in the video. She doesn’t counter hog becuase hog is to tanky for her to do anything towards and he can just poke you out and also hook people and turn them behind walls so you can’t mateix
Happiest, calmest OW player:
Also good vid mate informative and funny 👍
Excited to see how you feel bout Marvel Rivals, I've been enjoying the playtest a lot, and I'd like to hear what you think the game should improve or expand upon (Delete Scarlet Witch)
nice tutorial I will use it in qp not to ruin peoples games but to avoid my games being ruined all jokes aside I know counters already but I wanted to hear your reactions I think we both can agree 6v6 is a must and to be honest I never played overwatch 1
i actually think dooms matchup after the post mid season 11 patch with maugas cardiac overdrive only being 3 seconds now is heavily favored for doom. the only way you die to mauga now is if you engage a mauga with punch into him with no slam, block or ult. if you have any of these CDs (maybe not just block cause that assumes mauga just shoots your block like a bot so u can get emp punch reset), you just bait cardiac, get out, come back and kill him. imo cage is the only way a mauga can kill doom now and its honestly kinda easy to bait it with ult, slam or punch.
There’s definitely more things you can do now as doom but I think if the mauga is good isn’t using his e like a monkey it’s still unplayable
Most valid OW2 I’ve ever seen, should we expect to see something similar on Support/DPS in the future?
Potentially but a lot of the concepts you saw in this video are plug and play just apply them to ur role
Came back to ow for the first time since ow1 this week, and yeah, the counter picking meta is so prevalent my dumbass figured out it's necessity by myself. This'll save me the struggle of having to think about my matchups as a tank main
i was sold after hearing “if you noobs just locked the fuck in” from the last vid 😭
watching this 2 months late and seeing dva dominate ranked due to powercreep is crazy
im a rein main, so I GIVE my backline all the backshots they need
THE ONLY guide we needed
Brooo please make guides for the other roles or like anything at all the content is very entertaining 👍
Actually great video
As t500 Orisa otp with 1000 hours on her- Zarya has THE easiest play-around out of them ALL. Extremely easy- u just dont charge her and take cover when she bubbles herself to avoid all the unecessary incoming damage, and start hard focusing her whenever she tries to push u- set up boundries. Zarya will understand shes useless against u and will swap.
DVa is THE HARD counter. Literally no play around aganst DVa in the current reality. Sigma is very easy. Ram is hard. Winston is also dive as DVa, but at least u have a change to pusnish Winston when he dives you by prevent him from escaping. Rein is 50/50, because yes you prevent Rein from doing anything on the map, but u also being useless at the same time while doing so. On Orisa you have to carry by making kills, Rein's 1600 hp shield doesnt allow u to do so (same as DVa's matrix, prevent u from killing anything) so in games where Orisa isnt allowed to make kills- whoever has better DPS wins.
@@Frogga_UFO can you share with us w/e you’re smoking
@@lytepk tell me where im wrong and ill explain to u why its not
id love to see a video somewhere on how to outskill couterpicking
That would be a hero specific guide if I ever do one
Up to you, but it would be very intuitive and helpful, though there's no outskilling mauga, for now.
I've played almost only tank in OW1, quit eventually and started support and dps in OW2 since you can't avoid counter picking 😢
If they gave Mauga a long spool up on his minigun it’d fix so many issues
@35:45 man i got a secret winston playstyle that owns Mauga on any map
Wish junkerqueen was a meta choice. Most engaging tank ever made imo
What tanks do you think are the best in this meta season 11 excluding obvious picks like Mauga?
Great vid
Maybe I’m wrong but I personally don’t think doom is that bad with a brig zen backline, mostly because you can pick and choose when u take damage, so you just have to play a lot safer and slower. Though I feel it’s largely dependent on the enemy comp
Cool now let's counterpick another game to play
actual freelo 😍😍
Can you help me understand your interpretation of Sigma's matchup against Rein? I believe that, given Rein's limited vertical mobility, on nearly all maps with high-ground, Sigma could easily poke out any Rein and prevent him from making it in range to swing. Now obviously, if sig was on attack, it would be a different story; however, on defense, I feel sig has a clear advantage, no?
Depends on your team comp but you can either charge across chokes or use ur shield to cover. Recharge your resourches and go again. Then once your on level ground with him you just pin at him if he rocks you cancle pin and shield and then he's in a bad spot
I hate how right you are abt junker queen being outclassed by every tank but ima still main her cuz she goated 🫠
Playing tank is so easy when you counter pick on attack. Kill them and it’s takes them forever to get back
heresy, as all knows dva is tank diver and duelist
perfect timing
ur my goat bro ❤
Got it, always play Rein!
I think that dva should be in losing for hog just because of dm shutting down hooks and is able to shred him and has the mobility to dodge him when needed
I still despise that Mauga has CC immunity on his charge. At this point just take it off.
clicked on a random vid and you’re a coach to the school i went to GO REDBIRDS RAHHHH 🛑🛑🦅🛑🛑
The title got me.
This rock paper scissors update is crazy
Lets see it!
goat🐐
GOAT BACK TO MAKING VIDEOS LETS GO DAY 1 OG BRING BACK 6V6
PLZ 🙏
Lyte: "GENTLEMEN"
Me, a...not gentleman: 👁👄👁
Yo I’m a Moira main should I give up my dreams and just play bap or Lucio
@@Kasey3s nah you can play Moira into top 500
@@lytepk I’m top 60 on console as a Moira otp
Bro you ain’t gonna believe the news
Bro is pretty much the joe mazulla of overwatch
@@REFWAG is he the goat too or what
@@lytepk look him up and find out for yourself
@@lytepklook him up, best coach in basketball right now
I LOVE COUNTER SWAPPING IN SPAWN FOR 1 MINUTE IN MY GAMES!!!
this video will make me stay in this kinda dead game for more time thx
This guy deserves a free bbl
Get this man a 6s gamemode
What is your favourite tank?
Doom👊
I preferred him as DPS in overwatch 1
Would you rather play tank against Mauga or double shield?
my goat
Why would Doom be bad into mauga? Absorb his damage, knock him back, avoid him, ult away from his ult, no? I dont play doom but it doesnt sound that bad
Cause he outsustains you and shreds you. The knock back isn’t enough and if u shift past him and it’s not onto a high ground he just charges at you and kills you. Cage fight prevents you from ulting too
Ty I didn't know that I don't play much overwatch these days
Your Mauga take was spot on. Garbage hero design. Also, lol the Michael Scott clip had me in stitches bro.
Loved (loving) the video but wdym by marking stuff, like "marks flanks"
Yeah marking means you tag them on an angle so they can’t go in anymore or they’ll get fried
@@lytepk ahh gotcha thanks man
As a doomfist OTP this is a video