I am a big Vallejo fan but any hobbyist should know its all about the right tools for the job. AP tones for a quick shade and solid seal for gaming. Oils for a cleaner/panel wash. Golden for primes and especially (very important to me at least) for white. Great video!
Thank you very much, ironically I would recommend the SMS airbrush paints for priming because of the teeth it has and instant drying. So you are 100% right the right tools for the job. I hope that comes across in the video - Cal
Your critiques about Army Painter are valid, but I don't think their goal was pure pigments that you can mix, but a giant array of colors so that amateur artists don't need to mix. Love the channel, new sub!
Thanks glad to have another sub and one who engages. I think it's fair for them to have different goals like colour mixing not being their top priority is totally cool. The thing is they called it pure red, that was the issue, like I said if they had called it dragon red or something like that I don't think I would be as upset - Cal
Great video, Sunny & Cal! I was lucky to watch the live stream and see the paints in action while hearing your thoughts on them. I have the original Army Painter and Vallejo Model Air paints, each with their own strengths and uses in my hobby space. The Stargrave figures look fantastic, and I can’t wait to paint my own and share their story with the WAYPN community.
I look forward to seeing your wonderful characters! more Stargrave models would be very inspiring for us as well, thank you very much for tuning into all our streams we loved the Company ~Sunny
Thanks so much for running this experiment! I've been struggling with the paint I've been using and was starting to think that maybe it was a problem of materials rather than technique. Seeing your experiences clarifies that it's an issue of how I'm using the paints. Next step (I think): work out how to brighten up large shadows in my zenithal undercoat (I overbrush then drybrush). With that I can stop trying to even out large shadow areas with brighter ones in the undercoat. Thank you for sparking ideas about how I might improve my painting.
Yeah you're not alone it seems a pretty even split between Vallejo and Army Painter believing who would win, hopefully we will have more paint along streams with less pressure on them but yeah it was a very enjoyable experince having people like you joining us - Cal
I frikkin' LOVE your channel ❤️ Re/Vallejo wash. My Umber wash needed a deep stir with a stick. Found lots of gloop that had to be broken apart. Then the wash was grrrrrreat
I use the Vallejo Earth Wash. it is really awesome. My local store didn’t have a good collection of game color. I’ve been building a mix of citadel and Army Painter fanatic. Made the mistake of getting some Army Painter speed paint. Being new to painting has been a journey. Appreciate the video.
Thanks for doing this test, it was super informative. I enjoyed the streams, but the summation is well a put together and i liked that you talked about how the paints behave in real use case.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow if you do another testing, I might suggest you include a silver metallic. I can only speak for myself, but the NMM is not something I am as comfortable with (working on it) so having access to a metallic paint to fill that role would be welcome. I realize this can increase the cost (one more paint), but I also think it would cover a broader range of painters' common experience
@@PopeJrod Yeah we did talk about how we should probably include a gold and steel in our starter based off these experiences but we also think it's more comprehensive for the testing - Cal
I watched you guys struggle with the SMS. It's hard using a new brand sometimes, and urethane based is fiddley. In the scale model world SMS has a great reputation, but mostly with their airbrush line of paints. Anyway, love how some of the stargrave models turned out. The heads are super fun and varied.
Yeah I loved our Stargrave models I thought they were so fun I was so glad making them so different and varied! And I loved even more how they turned out once painted they are such a colourful collection of people - Cal
Oh and I should add yeah I do love the SMS paints when it comes to airbrushing but... the results speak for themselves... when it comes to their infinite colour range - Cal
@@frankiedafish77 Agreed on the airbrushing front for SMS! I felt really dumb once I figured out the bottle could be opened for the infinite colour ones, hopefully the steel balls I added will make some difference, because when I was getting a good result I wasn't mad at it so I want to see how far we can really push this paint, because the colours are so incredibly vibrant with these, I feel it a bit of a waste to not try again ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow most people that use it really enjoy it. The paints are thinner than GW so they can dilute faster on a wet palette, but for the drier climate in Arizona, they work extremely well.
Golden has another line called SoFlat Matte; using a bit of those and thinning them with some of the High Flow really cuts the gloss. The HF Titanium White is also an excellent replacement for Liquitex Titanium White when I'm out. I totally admit to being a Golden fanboy though; they're the first paint I reach for.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow The Fluid colors and High Flow still mix really well with matte mediums as well, or a more matte paint from another brand. I'm sure the conversion from USD makes it a bit more difficult for you guys, but if I go to my local arts supply store instead of a craft store like Michaels, the Golden paints in one or two oz. sizes are only $1-2 more expensive (depending on series and pigment) compared to miniature paints and significantly cheaper when you break it down per oz. They're definitely not the best choice if you're interested in copying Codex or GW approved color schemes, but as far as pigment saturation, mixability, and availability, they've won me over. If I was going straight miniature paint, I agree with you guys... Vallejo is my favourite, even though it's ironically the hardest for me to find locally.
I've been a citadel user forever, but ive recently been going to House of War in Ringwood and theyve got army painter, Duncan rhodes, Vallejo, sms, pro acryl, and more. So I'm slowly branching out to other brands.
That's great trying out other things is great, I am not saying citadel is bad I am actually surprised it ended up where it did. I expected Golden to do better because of the vibrancy of their colour but, the usability just pushed them down. My recommendation is always try new things but don't abandon your older thinks just because the new things are shining good luck on your journey - Cal
I backed both Two Thin Coats projects and they have been my go to for awhile but I do worry a bit about availability and price if I start needing replacements. Lately I’ve also been experimenting with Ammo Atom paints and for my workflow I am finding them really good. For your 3 color system I bet you would love the Ammo Atom SmartPaint set but that’s only available through Spraygunner and shipping to Australia could be a bit pricey. I picked up some last time I was in the states visiting family.
So they were available up north but not here but I think that is because that shop owner backed at the shop level. We would like to do this again but we were hit pretty hard with the cost plus lack of views so probably next time only one paint brand each time vs other older ones - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I have seen Army painter & Vallejo are at the store closest to me & if I go the other side of town, they have Tamiya, ICM & Humbrol paints.
They are quite renowned in the scale modeling community and to some degree in gunpla. I always thought of them as only airbrush lacquer paints. I want to try some but it’s not common in the US.
@@pbkobold is right that's how I know them from the Airbrush Lacquer Paints however, the Infinite Colour range was... not so good. SMS is an Australian brand @SomeDudeOnTH-cam that focus on as their name suggest Scale models, their name is short for Scale Model Supply. The focus on doing stuff for the Scale Model community which has a big cross over with Gunpla - Cal
Don't be, it'll be the best decision you'll ever make. There's still some citadel colours that are hard to beat compared to alternatives but even with the more expensive brands you'll find them better value.
Do our test, seven paints will cost you around 50 dollars and you don't have to look at it with regret, because you can call it an adventure. I hope this helped you. Citadel isn't bad as we said it's good old reliable - Cal
Only one place I know of sells Vallejo near me, and it's a 2-1/2 hour drive. Over a hundred freedom units away, and the online prices are not great here in the US.
After trying old Vallejo model colour, new Vallejo Game Colour, Citadel, Warpaints fanatic, Golden so flat and Pro Acryl, I'd say i prefer Vallejo Game Colour myself. Golden so flat should get around your gloss issue and the colours are punchy.
😍 I've not heard of Golden so flat or seen it in the stores but now I'm excited to find it and try it. Now that I have also figured out that we CAN add steel balls to the SMS bottles I'd like to try again with that and see how we can make it work better. But yes Vallejo number 1! ~Sunny
@@MrTrenttness Glad it was helpful man I hope it helps with your next paint choice I really recommend doing our experiment if you want to try out a new paint brand - Cal
Never used Golden; I actually like a number of the Citadel paints, but like everyone, I hate the pots and transfer them to dropper bottles; I rate their contrast paints as still the best of the 'speed' paint style. Army Painter, love a lot of the stuff they do, especially the tuffs, but I never really liked their paint; admittedly, I was jaded by the older stuff and not the fanatic range, which I am led to believe they have fixed the reactivation issue, to me they are just another medium level paint range like AK...SMS, I have used a bit, especially their fluoro range, just a pain to clean up, they seem pretty hard on the brushes as well as in use, and cleaning it out of an airbrush...urgh...so now I tend to use inks where I used them in the past, I do not like SMS and have moved on...Vallejo is my go to, I use it pretty much on every mini, especially the black, it is my favourite and has a huge range...the others that I use are Kimera, which are not as good as the beat-up, in my opinion, once these are used I won't get anymore, the availability is not good and not really a loss...sorry I am one of those, I have found myself using Pro Acryle more and more along with Vallejo, opacity and saturation is great and even on a wet wet pallet I find I get more one coat coverage...I like your work, its actually useful
I think the Dragon Red and Pure Red labels should have been swapped, I reach for their dragon red when I was a true red on my models. Pure red just dries too pink for me.
I really like Vallejo, but none of the stores carry it and the best i can get is order them from Poland (closest store that carries Vallejo) but they're often out of stock and buying all the paints that i want in one order is impossible.
@@Stormeris well I do hope at the end where we talk about the alternatives will help for when you need to get good paints in a pinch most places will carry citadel and/or Army painter. If you are able to get your hands on Vallejo that's even better ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Yeah, the stores do carry citadel and (non-fanatics Army Painter) and they're fine, but the few bottles of Vallejo that i have are my favorites
Hopefully you aren't brush lickers; cobalt is toxic. If you want to try some artist paints that aren't glossy, look at Golden SoFlat or Liquitex Acrylic Gouache.
Yeah it's a bad habit I have, but I really try not and try do other things but yeah... You're not the only person to mention Golden SoFlat, so I may check it out - Cal
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I am a big Vallejo fan but any hobbyist should know its all about the right tools for the job. AP tones for a quick shade and solid seal for gaming. Oils for a cleaner/panel wash. Golden for primes and especially (very important to me at least) for white. Great video!
Thank you very much, ironically I would recommend the SMS airbrush paints for priming because of the teeth it has and instant drying. So you are 100% right the right tools for the job. I hope that comes across in the video - Cal
Your critiques about Army Painter are valid, but I don't think their goal was pure pigments that you can mix, but a giant array of colors so that amateur artists don't need to mix. Love the channel, new sub!
Thanks glad to have another sub and one who engages. I think it's fair for them to have different goals like colour mixing not being their top priority is totally cool. The thing is they called it pure red, that was the issue, like I said if they had called it dragon red or something like that I don't think I would be as upset - Cal
Timestamps ⏱
0:00 Intro
0:36 pre review thoughts
6:53 Method
8:45 The Experiment
11:08 Citadel
18:04 Army Painter
23:52 SMS
31:04 Golden
39:02 Vallejo
47:51 Conclusion
53:04 Outro
53:36 End joke
Timestamps are broken sadly.
@@TheNatybo Fixed! thank you for letting us know - Cal
Great video, Sunny & Cal! I was lucky to watch the live stream and see the paints in action while hearing your thoughts on them. I have the original Army Painter and Vallejo Model Air paints, each with their own strengths and uses in my hobby space. The Stargrave figures look fantastic, and I can’t wait to paint my own and share their story with the WAYPN community.
I look forward to seeing your wonderful characters! more Stargrave models would be very inspiring for us as well, thank you very much for tuning into all our streams we loved the Company ~Sunny
Thanks so much for running this experiment! I've been struggling with the paint I've been using and was starting to think that maybe it was a problem of materials rather than technique. Seeing your experiences clarifies that it's an issue of how I'm using the paints.
Next step (I think): work out how to brighten up large shadows in my zenithal undercoat (I overbrush then drybrush). With that I can stop trying to even out large shadow areas with brighter ones in the undercoat.
Thank you for sparking ideas about how I might improve my painting.
Thank you very much this was truly a wonderful comment we are so glad that our experiences could help you improve! Keep those brushes wet! ~Sunny
Great comparison, great vid and most importantly, great chemistry between you two 🥰🥰 Best wishes
I am really glad you like the chemistry between us, and I am even more glad you like the video we put a LOT of work into - Cal
It was a pleasure to paint along with you working on this Video. I hope that you'll continue doing paint along live streams
I knew vallejo will win
Yeah you're not alone it seems a pretty even split between Vallejo and Army Painter believing who would win, hopefully we will have more paint along streams with less pressure on them but yeah it was a very enjoyable experince having people like you joining us - Cal
I frikkin' LOVE your channel ❤️ Re/Vallejo wash. My Umber wash needed a deep stir with a stick. Found lots of gloop that had to be broken apart. Then the wash was grrrrrreat
Well we do have a vortex mixer, maybe popping it onto that might help the black wash a bit more thanks for the tip ~Sunny
I use the Vallejo Earth Wash. it is really awesome. My local store didn’t have a good collection of game color. I’ve been building a mix of citadel and Army Painter fanatic. Made the mistake of getting some Army Painter speed paint. Being new to painting has been a journey. Appreciate the video.
I am glad you apricated the video I hope it helps with future hobby decisions - Cal
Beautiful painting
Thanks - Cal
Thanks for doing this test, it was super informative. I enjoyed the streams, but the summation is well a put together and i liked that you talked about how the paints behave in real use case.
Thanks so much for the feedback is there anything you would say we missed out on? ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow if you do another testing, I might suggest you include a silver metallic. I can only speak for myself, but the NMM is not something I am as comfortable with (working on it) so having access to a metallic paint to fill that role would be welcome. I realize this can increase the cost (one more paint), but I also think it would cover a broader range of painters' common experience
@@PopeJrod Yeah we did talk about how we should probably include a gold and steel in our starter based off these experiences but we also think it's more comprehensive for the testing - Cal
I watched you guys struggle with the SMS. It's hard using a new brand sometimes, and urethane based is fiddley. In the scale model world SMS has a great reputation, but mostly with their airbrush line of paints.
Anyway, love how some of the stargrave models turned out. The heads are super fun and varied.
Yeah I loved our Stargrave models I thought they were so fun I was so glad making them so different and varied! And I loved even more how they turned out once painted they are such a colourful collection of people - Cal
Oh and I should add yeah I do love the SMS paints when it comes to airbrushing but... the results speak for themselves... when it comes to their infinite colour range - Cal
@@frankiedafish77 Agreed on the airbrushing front for SMS! I felt really dumb once I figured out the bottle could be opened for the infinite colour ones, hopefully the steel balls I added will make some difference, because when I was getting a good result I wasn't mad at it so I want to see how far we can really push this paint, because the colours are so incredibly vibrant with these, I feel it a bit of a waste to not try again ~Sunny
Awesome video. Proacryl is super accessible for me because they are based in my hometown. But great points for all those brands
Ha ha that must be handy what kind of reputation do they have in the town - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow most people that use it really enjoy it. The paints are thinner than GW so they can dilute faster on a wet palette, but for the drier climate in Arizona, they work extremely well.
+1 for Proacryl. So good!!
This is actually great because I have a crap ton of golden brand
Glad we are helping out Mr.N hope it helps - Cal
Golden has another line called SoFlat Matte; using a bit of those and thinning them with some of the High Flow really cuts the gloss. The HF Titanium White is also an excellent replacement for Liquitex Titanium White when I'm out. I totally admit to being a Golden fanboy though; they're the first paint I reach for.
Yeah maybe the SoFlat Matte may be better, you're not the first person to mention it - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow The Fluid colors and High Flow still mix really well with matte mediums as well, or a more matte paint from another brand. I'm sure the conversion from USD makes it a bit more difficult for you guys, but if I go to my local arts supply store instead of a craft store like Michaels, the Golden paints in one or two oz. sizes are only $1-2 more expensive (depending on series and pigment) compared to miniature paints and significantly cheaper when you break it down per oz.
They're definitely not the best choice if you're interested in copying Codex or GW approved color schemes, but as far as pigment saturation, mixability, and availability, they've won me over. If I was going straight miniature paint, I agree with you guys... Vallejo is my favourite, even though it's ironically the hardest for me to find locally.
I have never painted a model in two hours! My Van Saar which was a relative speed paint took me a week!
Yeah, and I am sure you don't have a whole cheer squad roasting you on stream either. It's totally okay to go at your own pace - Cal
@@Nallenbot I also glossed over some minor details to get them done quickly 😅 I can only imagine an army painter doing these up 🥵 ~Sunny
I've been a citadel user forever, but ive recently been going to House of War in Ringwood and theyve got army painter, Duncan rhodes, Vallejo, sms, pro acryl, and more. So I'm slowly branching out to other brands.
That's great trying out other things is great, I am not saying citadel is bad I am actually surprised it ended up where it did. I expected Golden to do better because of the vibrancy of their colour but, the usability just pushed them down. My recommendation is always try new things but don't abandon your older thinks just because the new things are shining good luck on your journey - Cal
I backed both Two Thin Coats projects and they have been my go to for awhile but I do worry a bit about availability and price if I start needing replacements.
Lately I’ve also been experimenting with Ammo Atom paints and for my workflow I am finding them really good.
For your 3 color system I bet you would love the Ammo Atom SmartPaint set but that’s only available through Spraygunner and shipping to Australia could be a bit pricey. I picked up some last time I was in the states visiting family.
So they were available up north but not here but I think that is because that shop owner backed at the shop level. We would like to do this again but we were hit pretty hard with the cost plus lack of views so probably next time only one paint brand each time vs other older ones - Cal
Some good tips here, I have seen the Army painter stater set in store. I would just need to add a skin tone.
Army painter is good what do you have available in your local stores - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I have seen Army painter & Vallejo are at the store closest to me & if I go the other side of town, they have Tamiya, ICM & Humbrol paints.
We highly recommend Vallejo. We think that they are a great brand to learn with - Cal
Great video
Thanks - Cal
I did not tested Vallejo because of the avaibility. If I want to by paint, it ist very easy fpr me to get GM, Army Painter and Golden.
Totally fair availability is one of the biggest things we talk about - Cal
SMS paint? Never heard of those before.
They are quite renowned in the scale modeling community and to some degree in gunpla. I always thought of them as only airbrush lacquer paints. I want to try some but it’s not common in the US.
@@pbkobold is right that's how I know them from the Airbrush Lacquer Paints however, the Infinite Colour range was... not so good. SMS is an Australian brand @SomeDudeOnTH-cam that focus on as their name suggest Scale models, their name is short for Scale Model Supply. The focus on doing stuff for the Scale Model community which has a big cross over with Gunpla - Cal
I'm just scared to swap over from Citadel.
Don't be, it'll be the best decision you'll ever make. There's still some citadel colours that are hard to beat compared to alternatives but even with the more expensive brands you'll find them better value.
Art brands are a big jump but modeling brands like AK and Vallejo are the same thing but better.
Do our test, seven paints will cost you around 50 dollars and you don't have to look at it with regret, because you can call it an adventure. I hope this helped you. Citadel isn't bad as we said it's good old reliable - Cal
Funny Fact: The old big Vallejo Paint Set did come with three tones of Army Painter Quickshade
How many paints were in that one total? - Cal
Only one place I know of sells Vallejo near me, and it's a 2-1/2 hour drive. Over a hundred freedom units away, and the online prices are not great here in the US.
After trying old Vallejo model colour, new Vallejo Game Colour, Citadel, Warpaints fanatic, Golden so flat and Pro Acryl, I'd say i prefer Vallejo Game Colour myself. Golden so flat should get around your gloss issue and the colours are punchy.
😍 I've not heard of Golden so flat or seen it in the stores but now I'm excited to find it and try it. Now that I have also figured out that we CAN add steel balls to the SMS bottles I'd like to try again with that and see how we can make it work better. But yes Vallejo number 1! ~Sunny
Golden so flat huh we will have to take a look but we are very in the red for this video, share it around if you liked it - Cal
🔥🎸🔥
- Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow
Thanks for the video. I've been trying to branch out from GW's paints and this video is a big help. 🥳
@@MrTrenttness Glad it was helpful man I hope it helps with your next paint choice I really recommend doing our experiment if you want to try out a new paint brand - Cal
Never used Golden; I actually like a number of the Citadel paints, but like everyone, I hate the pots and transfer them to dropper bottles; I rate their contrast paints as still the best of the 'speed' paint style. Army Painter, love a lot of the stuff they do, especially the tuffs, but I never really liked their paint; admittedly, I was jaded by the older stuff and not the fanatic range, which I am led to believe they have fixed the reactivation issue, to me they are just another medium level paint range like AK...SMS, I have used a bit, especially their fluoro range, just a pain to clean up, they seem pretty hard on the brushes as well as in use, and cleaning it out of an airbrush...urgh...so now I tend to use inks where I used them in the past, I do not like SMS and have moved on...Vallejo is my go to, I use it pretty much on every mini, especially the black, it is my favourite and has a huge range...the others that I use are Kimera, which are not as good as the beat-up, in my opinion, once these are used I won't get anymore, the availability is not good and not really a loss...sorry I am one of those, I have found myself using Pro Acryle more and more along with Vallejo, opacity and saturation is great and even on a wet wet pallet I find I get more one coat coverage...I like your work, its actually useful
I think the Dragon Red and Pure Red labels should have been swapped, I reach for their dragon red when I was a true red on my models. Pure red just dries too pink for me.
hmmm maybe we will try with dragon red? We will give it ago - Cal
Who is wearing a fur coat while painting minis?!
That's Sunny's "Warm Robe" I keep telling her hey, come on... but does she listen to me... no, no she doesn't - Cal
@@maxbrandt6don't you? You should try it some time it's comfy 😁
Also I get cold easy ~Sunny
I really like Vallejo, but none of the stores carry it and the best i can get is order them from Poland (closest store that carries Vallejo) but they're often out of stock and buying all the paints that i want in one order is impossible.
Having it carried in your store is super important for what brand you choose - Cal
@@Stormeris well I do hope at the end where we talk about the alternatives will help for when you need to get good paints in a pinch most places will carry citadel and/or Army painter. If you are able to get your hands on Vallejo that's even better ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Yeah, the stores do carry citadel and (non-fanatics Army Painter) and they're fine, but the few bottles of Vallejo that i have are my favorites
Vallejo makes SUCH good stuff ahhhh
pro acryl is the best, vallejo for metallics
So people tell us but it isn't available here we can order it but nothing on shelves - Cal
Hopefully you aren't brush lickers; cobalt is toxic.
If you want to try some artist paints that aren't glossy, look at Golden SoFlat or Liquitex Acrylic Gouache.
Yeah it's a bad habit I have, but I really try not and try do other things but yeah...
You're not the only person to mention Golden SoFlat, so I may check it out - Cal