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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มี.ค. 2024
- what is genre and why does it exist?
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this was a quicker video mostly to launch the patreon. whether you become a member or not, i will always appreciate you for watching. ❤- www.patreon.com/ecyinka
Great video, lots of great points, don't like the title. It sort of goes against what you actually end up saying (as in, write the stories you want to write regardless of genre). I think a better title would have been something like "the problem with writing according to a genre" or some more catchy variation of that as it fits your message better. (Edit, he's changed the title and the new one is good😁)
Oh good, he was going to spread out from his title's point.
Here I was about to go strike an argument with him after I listened to the video. Now I can listen to it with a lot calmer mind.
But yes, genres are made so *readers* can have an idea about the content. Writers shouldn't even bother worrying about it and rather go with what they think works.
The thumbnail as well. Not only they are a bait-and-switch, it also made the video sound pretty rambly until I understood the switcharoo.
I don't like click bait titles, i prefer accurate ones.
Me, too. I wished TH-camrs would be more accurate sometimes.😮💨
I wouldn't call "Science Fantasy" a "dumb genre". DUNE is one of the best scifi novels of all time and it's arguably Science Fantasy.
I WOULD call "genre" dumb (which I think is your real point). You write a novel with science fiction elements, fantasy elements, mystery and thriller elements - and you can only pick ONE genre? THAT is BS. I want to get rid of the "Genre" categorization nonsense. Tags. Tags are where it's at. Same names, right, but now you can use them all. And if I ruled the world, I'd give each tag a 5 point system. DUNE would rate 5 on scifi, 3 on fantasy, 4 on political fiction, 2 on ecological fiction..... you get the point.
good shit.
Absolutely love this.
dune is not science fantasy, all fantastic elements in the book are based on science, it takes those concepts to extremes, that's the point
@@diemes5463 It takes them to magical extremes, which is the entire idea of the science fantasy genre.
agree, what goes into a story is more important than what shape it takes.
I think the reason why science fiction and fantasy are so similar to each other it's because conceptually magic and science are very similar both of them are just different systems to try and understand and manipulate the world.
They are both intellectual powers. One focus more on feeling while the other more on logic.
I saw this and my stomach dropped cuz I felt personally attacked lol I'm writing a science-fantasy where it's a fantasy setting set on a sci-fi megastructure, but I like your points on genre.
Can we agree that yinka is quickly becoming the best writing TH-camr?
I don't know what time span is "quickly" for u but if u go for the videos, I agree. I absolutly love his videso ;)
Hm, what genre do we think mythology fits into? Fantasy, because of fantastical elements not actually present in the real world? But perhaps not, given that the people who told these stories likely thought of them as real. Maybe it's own genre? Hmm...
I would say it is it's own genre. Depending if u are retelling a story from mythology or if u just use parts of it in your story. Otherwise it might more likely fit into fantasy, as a big genre bubble. Depending on what direction u take it could also be part of religious genre bubble.
I think mythopoeia and mythological fantasy are actual terms used in such situations.
"Here's one thing I like - here's more of it" is a great way to put it! I wish readers were more pushed to really ask themselves: * but... what is the actual thing I like?*
Also love you spectrumcore. Please continue delivering spectrums. The only extreme here is that I *always* want spectrums.
It is as when someone always says the don't like fantasy and but then u find out they only like it when there is just a tiny bit of magic in it. And they always thought fantasy means lotr style big fantasy world etc. No, u can get whatever u want and eventually we find the right subgenre neache for u ... maybe we find 50 that u like.
your channel is simply amazing and so fun and enlightening to watch
YOU GOT A PATREON!!!!!
New video, ya love to see it
(Curious how much of that like 200 message convo we had you used XD)
The term you're looking for is "cluster concepts", which is what genres are. Things without any necessary elements, but the more elements an object does have, the more they belong to that thing. (But they rarely have _all_ the elements.) And some of the elements are "closer" to the center of the cluster than others, ie. more common.
Great video. Really recommend the Genre section of Save The Cat. It focuses more on story type rather than story “look”. Really helped me think about story telling.
Your videos are always as quirky as they are entertaining and meaningful.
*SUBBED*
Take your time with video uploads, you are one of the few people who I don’t have to turn up the Playspeed. Your videos are really helpful so please, take all the time you need.
Thanks! Great video as always!
Pure fantasy is most Ghibli movies, especially ones like Spirited Away and Ponyo. Soft magic, no real "answers" or "lore" except what matters for dialogue/moving the characters to growing.
That was a daring title, I like it.
I think the Dragonriders of Pern series (Anne McCaffrey and later Todd McCaffrey) is a good example of a science-fantasy series moving through the spectrum. The initial novels seem to be mainly fantasy, focusing on another planet (sci-fi) where people ride dragons (fantasy?) to protect their world from thread (sci-fi). But the later novels explain how their ancestors travelled there from Earth, and involve time travel (in a sci-fi skin, rather than a fantasy skin, I think). Then later novels get into genetic engineering, dolphin training, etc. involving artifacts brought from Earth or constructed on Pern by the initial colonists.
Thx man! Needed to hear to write the story i want to write.
Genres exist and after your work is released to the world it will be categorized. If that stresses you out, just try not to think about it and focus on the story.
Yeah, genre really is something for after finishing the story so the readers get an idea of what to expect and to make it easier for the readers to find what they like. U can use a trillion genres if the story is carrieng them all
I would actually go further in the speculative fiction spectrum and add horror as like another corner of this triangle, as elements of horror can find itself in both fantastical and "traditional sci-fi" settings.
Take one of my favourite franchises, Dr Who, and how some of its stories will have elements of all three. Tomb of the Cybermen for example. You have the main characters travelling around in a police box that's bigger on the inside that can just produce food and other things for people at will. That's pretty fantastical. Then you have the spacefaring aspect and the side characters being on an alien world on some expedition where it turns out a bunch of cyborgs were dwelling. Pretty sci fi. Then you have the fact that the characters venture into catacombs and find these cyborgs. Then you have the Cybermen themselves, basically artificially reanimated corpses in robot suits who intend on subjecting you to that very same fate. Seems pretty horrific to me!
And that's just one example, there are loads of stories like this.
I don’t really know if this counts but my favorite Sci-fi setting,Mike pondsmith’s CYBERPUNK sits hard in the Sci-fi genre,with believable technology and a focus on realism when it comes to depicting the dark future. But at the same time,it contains stories of unconventional heroism and even its own mythology (the legend of Morgan blackhand,the infamy of Johnny silverhand,the basilisk of night city,Adam smasher,etc). In a way,you can have your own mythology and inject *parts* of fantasy into your sci-fi,or *parts* of sci-fi into your fantasy, but trying to make the two hardcore genres work together is very difficult to pull off.
I'll just focused on the characters, not the genre they are in.
BTW guys, if you want to read a decent litrpg fantasy book, i recommend "The way of the shaman" it can be a bit tropy, but its nice
Clickbaity title, but love the video
Genre and aesthetic seem to have a lot of overlap, which is why I think we can tell when something looks like sci-fi or fantasy. It's about the feeling of the story more than its actual content.
In my native language, "sci-fi" is literally translated as "scientific fantasy" , so it's already seen as a sub-genre of "fantasy" as a whole.
To me, the distinction lies mostly in the *themes*
*Sci-fi:* deals with ethical and philosophical dilemmas resulting from technological progress; actively questions what it means to be human.
*Fantasy:* has a spiritual core; explores and celebrates the human soul (without asking what it is) through the lenses of heroism, fate, love and duty.
*Cyberpunk:* conveys targeted social criticism, explores the duality of individual and community, deals with questions of freedom and self-identity.
Yes, that does mean I consider Star Wars closer to "fantasy" than sci-fi, in the same way that "the stars, my destination" is often called "cyberpunk before cyberpunk" by critics.
The thing I don't agree with is the idea that all works of fantasy/science fiction are on a gradient of fantasy/science fiction. When you add "magic" or loose science to science fiction, it doesn't slide in a spectrum towards fantasy, it slides towards Soft Science Fiction.
I think this is an important distinction because it's not the future, lasers and robots what makes science fiction and it's not the past, magic and dragons what makes sci-fi, but rather the tropes they use and the kinds of stories they tell that sets the genre. A story can have magic and be distinctly sci-fi, or have robots and be distinctly fantasy. The genres have different feels and goals other than the aesthetics and tools of magic and tech.
Science fiction writes about the future (usually) to talk about the present truths. Fantasy talks about the past (usually) to talk about timeless truths. Is how I like to frame it.
I place Star Wars as a fantasy first and foremost, not because it's got "the mysterious Force" but because it's archetypes and structure are squarely within fantasy. The valiant knights, the mystic sage, the princess, the outlaw, the evil lord, the duels, the beasts and the travels and the eternal fight between good and evil and "going back" to when things were right. The fact that they use blasters instead of crossbows, spaceships instead of regular ships and planets instead of distant lands is anecdotical. I only deem it _science_ fantasy, instead of "fantasy set in a futuristic setting) because there's the looming threat of techno-threat, like the Death Star or a clone/droid army playing second fiddle to the main fantasy-Dark Lord antagonist.
Star Trek is still plain (soft) science fiction, even if it features psionic powers and phoney space-physics or the odd medieval planet because it's themes and stories are entirely those of the forward-thinking space-race era. The science, technology, novely, innvation, invention and speculation are key in a way that it couldn't be told in any other genre.
genre itself is an imaginary concept, it only really exists to market fiction by giving it worded characteristics. i don't think there's such a thing as a dumb genre, because genre barely exist to begin with. if it works in the setting, it works, if it doesn't work in the setting, it doesn't.
I don't want to label my work as sci fi because although it has time travel(through ai copies of the arrangement of neurons being forced onto the brains of people in the past) the system of laws managing paradoxes and what is allowed before someone is erased from existence has shaped religions and philosophies in the countries which use it. And politics is a much bigger focus than writing the technology as convincingly as possible(my explanation for how it's possible being pretty weak but a combination of the problem with paradoxes as they're prevented in universe being of perception of events and not objective reality, and the shape of spacetime being different to our universe allowing it).
And honestly star wars is like a strawman example to me? Serial experiments lain is my best example of not fitting into either sci fi or fantasy.
Think most people agree the title is a lil misleading, but the video was good!
whatever you want to make, there's someone who will enjoy it.
Genres does exist to have a base to search in the literally TONS. Of. Fiction, be it movies poems or novels.
Fantasy and sci-fi are two of the most easily distinguishable genres that I don't think collide usually.
So yes. Science fantasy does sound dumb.
Literally the only thing I can think about that might be science fantasy is the ORIGINAL Fantastic Beasts studybook by Rowling (NOT the movies, the ORIGINAL BOOK), since it acts to be scientific on clearly fantasy-themed creatures.
love your content, I want to write cool stuff hopefully
Banger video
Purely fantasy? The question is to which point it is science. At some point the smithy was the hot stuff. some point before that tieing a hammered stone to a stick was the height of human invention. Is it only fantasy if there are no tools beyond magic itself? Are tools to support the magic allowed or does that stray away too far from the fantastical? Is agriculture a thing in pure fantasy?
I'd say rats hurdling fireballs at each other gets pretty close to pure fantasy
I get what you're saying and I 100% agree with the notion of just writing what you want to write without trying to shoehorn it into a genre.
That said, I get the feeling your definition of science fiction is off. Star Wars is not science fiction. It doesn't fit between sci-fi and fantasy. It's fantasy, pure and simple. Robots and starships and giant space stations do not make something science fiction. Those are just the trappings of certain kinds of sci-fi, but in no way are these things what define the genre. Science fiction is speculative fiction; it's a "what if?" story that addresses the impact of science and technology. This is why so many sci-fi stories are cautionary tales. By necessity, sci-fi needs to take place in a familiar setting (e.g. Earth), or an obvious derivative of it (e.g. the universe as seen in Star Trek). Without that familiar grounding point, the lessons of the story hold no water.
Fantasy, on the other hand, is pure imagination. It CAN take place on Earth, but doesn't need to. Fantasy typically explores less tangible concepts like good vs. evil, the power of love, or the relationship between all-powerful deities and mortals. Fantasy has its roots in real world myths, which were originally invented to explain natural phenomena, and then the many imaginative stories that evolved from there.
In short, the trappings do not define the genre. Defining genre that way makes the terms almost useless.
Both science and and magic are systems designed to help people understand and manipulate the world which is why there genres are so similar.
Black Leopard, Red Wolf
Yeah that title is a bit unnecessarily condescending and closed minded
don't blame the guy, is just how youtube culture works - these titles get more clicks, it's easy to spot. In the end he did talk about the genre with care and respect
As always, a great video. Love your work, but as others have said, the title left kind of a bad taste and is hardly even relevant to what you're actually talking about - the constraints of rigidly adhereing to genre in general.
Wouldn't pure fantasy be something akin to fairy tales? They're not about the science of the time at all and contain fantastical elements that couldn't possibly exist in the real world.
French fries
Second
Good video, VERY bad title.
I view genre as two things: 1) a way for people into specific niches to find things in that niche, 2) a barrier to originality.
My novel, Magitism: The Force of Magic, attempts to merge Science Fiction and Fantasy. The aliens view their own system as magical and humanity sciences the shit out of it to pick apart how it works.
It plays on the idea that we have magic today; we just have figured out how that magic works so well that we stopped viewing it as magic. Particle physics is just really well-described magic.
Genre is never a barrier to creativity (originality is inherit to the author as long as their not plagiarizing). What you've described sounds like a really compelling concept, and I will definitely check it out, but it still sounds like science fiction. Even if the aliens view something as magic, if it can be explained with science, it's not magic. Science can be wonderous without being rebranded as magic.
My favorite Alan Moore quote? Subscribed