Why Honda Made A 20,000 RPM Oval Piston Engine
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2021
- Honda's motorcycle racing division is responsible for many extraordinary and successful models in the history of Grand Prix, basically in any class of the series. In the late 1970's it was decided to compete against two-strokes with a four-stroke. And that was a true challenge. This is the story of the unique oval-piston engine.
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- Credits -
“RC211V Designing Story” by 本田技研工業株式会社 (Honda)
• RC211V Designing Story
“Honda RC116 (1966) vol.1 - 2-Cylinder 50cc GP Racer” by Deckay_F
• Honda RC116 (1966) vol...
“Museo Honda, vi raccontiamo il debutto della NR 500 pistoni ovali nel 1979 a Silverstone” by GPOne
• Museo Honda, vi raccon...
“1987 Swann Series Calder round 2 Roadracing with Honda NR750 !!!!” by Harrie SukkyYakky
• 1987 Swann Series Cald...
“4 cylinder Versus 3 cylinder. - MV Agusta 500's sound comparison.” by Pete Scott
• 4 cylinder Versus 3 cy...
“Motor GP500 Terakhir Bermesin 4-Tak, HONDA NR500 | History Lesson” by ENOANDERSON - Motorbike
• Motor GP500 Paling Gil...
“Bought a 1979 Honda Civic CVCC” by Misael Valdez
• Bought a 1979 Honda Ci...
“Sweet Yellow CVCC Honda Civic Zips back to Life” by 2stroketurbo
• Sweet Yellow CVCC Hond...
“GP Belgique 1978” by Leo Movies
• GP Belgique 1978
“Soichiro Honda & Ayrton Senna” by Fernando Maripan
• Soichiro Honda & Ayrto...
“1987 Swann Series Lake Side round 3 with Honda NR750 !!!” by Harrie SukkyYakky
• 1987 Swann Series Lake...
“1992 Honda NR 750 (V4 oval pistons 32 valve) promotional movie.flv” by TesztMotor
• 1992 Honda NR 750 (V4 ...
“Classic Motorcycle Racing: Ralph Bryans rides an ex-Mike Hailwood Honda 6 at Brands Hatch in 1989” by Michael Williams
• Classic Motorcycle Rac...
“HONDA NR 750 (Part 3)” by kompass60
• HONDA NR 750 (Part 3)
“HONDA NR750,500. Oval piston engine cutaway. 楕円ピストン NRエンジンカットモデル” by ODDEYE109
• HONDA NR750,500. Oval ...
“Honda NR 750 (Documental completo) HISTORY HONDA” by vulcanouf
• Video
“Historic Honda NR 500 WGP500 1979 (oval pistons) static video.flv” by hondaspeed9
• Historic Honda NR 500 ...
“Honda VF750F- 1984” by cobra66driver
• Honda VF750F- 1984
“Honda NR 500 op de Testbank” by Nederbug66
• Honda NR 500 op de Tes...
“Honda NS500 NSR500 WEB Mr. Bike” by Web-MrBIKE
• Honda NS500 NSR500 WEB...
“HONDA HRC NS500 (1984) Vol.1 - Freddie Spencer's NS500” by Deckay_F
• HONDA HRC NS500 (1984)...
“NR500 1983” by ROADRIDER JAPAN
• NR500 1983
“For Sale: 1992 Honda NR750. Oval piston goodness. Ready for public or private museum.” by Superbikeplanet
• For Sale: 1992 Honda N...
“HONDA NR750 sound” by nise1118
• HONDA NR750 sound
“HONDA NR 750 Dyno Run 2” by stevenm5317
• HONDA NR 750 Dyno Run 2
“HONDA NR の通過音だそうです” by NR TV
• HONDA NR の通過音だそうです - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
i like how every time they fixed something that broke they just made more power
The power of dream
They were onto something.
@EURO1215 (I Make 5hitty Videos)
the Power Of Dreams 💪
Honda as always pushing beyond!! First with the VTEC, oval pistons, 4WS, hybrid cars, sat-nav... Awesome vid man!
Vtec is just a fancy name for variable valve timing and fiat was the first to make it, the first hybrid car was made by porsche. But if you wish to talk about the more recent iterations of hybrid cars lets just toyota got there first and is a lot more beyond on the subject. The first car with sat-nav was actually a mazda eunos cosmo. So appart from two things on your list (oval pistons and 4ws) that by the way can highly be argued about it being actually worst than the norm (normal two wheel steering and round pistons) in what is honda beyond exactly?
Please dont think im saying honda is a bad brand. I love them. They had an amazing motorsports history and made a lot of interesting products. Still do today. And i own some honda motorcycles. but they are not pioneers or the best like a lot of people like to portray them.
@@dcd5050 Fiat made the first VVT And Alfa Romeo used it first, there was also a Cadillac with an experimental engine far before, and steam and aircraft engines which used VVT, but I'm sorry, you don't hear about those unless you research about it.... Honda took the variable valve timing and managed to break the 100hp per litre barrier back in the late 80's, and you should know what came after.
Also, the first navigation on a commercial car was the gyro-cator in 1981, I was not sat nav, but it used a clever system for navigation.
And about the hybrid, the insight came in 1999, the Prius came after in 2000, but the later was more successful, I won't take the Porsche mixte and the prototype from before into account, cause you just can't compare technologies fairly.
And my comment was a out Honda pushing beyond, not necessarily first, but it reads like that, my bad.
@@luisleon7027 actually the prius was first sold in 1997. Not after 2000. Plus the insight was a disaster in sales i mean the prius in 2017 sold double more units than the insight in all its life span.
@@dcd5050 perfect, my mistake, nice, you win!
Skyline:Muhahah:)
you meet the nicest people riding a honda.
Probably because the competition is way to far ahead 🤘😉
Yes, Honda owners are coming last, probably had to stop for repairs as well.
crazy people riding suzuki
@@ollolol7879 connering people riding yamaha
@@chikfidipoh6241 In Thailand, really have this quotes, Nice people ride honda, Crazy people ride suzuki, Cool people ride Yamaha Flexing people ride ducati
It wasn't a wasted effort as a lot of the learning from this bike was incorporated into the VFR and RVF 750 race bikes. The RC30 and RC45 were stunning machines.
Yep the RC45 was a proper Weapon
@@alanmacer5078 The most exotic of all that era were the pair of Silkolene sponsored bikes Honda brought to the 1991 TT Races. Hislop and Foggy went like demons on them.
@@howardosborne8647 Remember it well , a bit like Joey on the 2 Stroke 250 , amazing times 👍
I had a V65Sabre and always wanted to have that engine in a real race bike 🏍 style frame. Then adding turbos or supercharging to the factory style frame would have been great also. Mine had a pipe and a ignition advancement and carburetor work/fiddling..lol..from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸 🤠 it would beat STOCK V-max's
@@howardosborne8647 it was the biggest waste of time and money in Honda's history ..as it cost Honda $10,000,000 dollars and paying pop Yoshimura 10 years of his life on the clock trying to develop this engine to beat a two stroke...just because Mr. Honda had a mental problem against two stroke engines ...maybe because at that same area Yamaha was winning everything . Like Kenny Roberts 500cc square four 2-stroke yamaha that made 200hp+ @ around 11,000 RPM ..1st time out Kenny went to Europe and won the European Moto Grand Prix something no European rookie had ever done... Something no Foreigner had ever done... And something no American had ever done ever ... Honda has always been a couple of years behind technology of the other three Yamaha Kawasaki and Suzuki... And I'm not just talking engine technology but frame geometry and handling also ... And it was Suzuki what's the best track records of reliability and speed as it was Suzuki the first ones to build a injection system that works still works today.. Suzuki's biggest hit was the X6 Hustler two-stroke 250 CC oil injected twin cylinder as advertised would outrun a triumph 650 Bonneville in a quarter mile.
There is no possible way a four-stroke naturally aspirated engine of the same size will ever make more or even same horsepower as a two-stroke naturally aspirated of the same size engine as the 4-stroke... And it's not only the two stroke fires twice as often per revolution... And it's not only the fact that a two-stroke only has three moving parts compared to a modern 4-stroke today that has dozens of moving parts that all take extra horsepower to turn.... It is the small simple fact that 2-stroke engines are self supercharging ... Making boost in the bottom end then it's transferred to the combustion chamber where it is compressed one more time before it fires.... So when the boost pressure catches up with the exhaust tone from the expansion chamber the horsepower skyrockets to well over twice as many horsepower has a four-stroke naturally aspirated the same size.....this was all explained and demonstrated at Honda's h own R&D in a Honda Elsinore class instructed to me by none other than "Pop" Yoshimura himself back in 1975 .. and in the early 70's it was "Pop" Yoshimura who invented Honda's very first two-stroke "pop" called the RC125M ..and "Pop ” Yoshimura designed built raced and won all the motocross races in Japan and the championships 1971-1972 for Honda putting Honda on the map for the first time and in 1973 American Honda launched the CR125M Honda Elsinore two stroke that was the game changer as it was the fastest 125cc motocross bike money could buy ...and in 1974 came the CR250 that was ban from the open class cuz none of the big 4 stroke singles like the BSA 441 victor had a chance or the Ducati Desmo 450 scrambler or even a triumph B50 ..in 1973 the Yamaha MX500 single two stroke made more horsepower than a Honda CB750 four. And the Yamaha MX500 was 300 lbs lighter weight than a Honda four cylinder that was well over 500 pounds... So in 1973 and 1974 Honda ruled American Motocross with extreme light weight bikes .."pop's" first RC125M only weighed 138 Pounds and made about 25hp that was more than double of a Honda 4 stroke ...but the old man still had a mental problem with it all and refused to upgrade his new little buzz bombs ...that's when Yamaha shocked the whole world with self supercharging YZ engine with intake Reed valves that put the boost on steroids boosting the YZ125 to 30hp+ and the YZ250 to right at 50hp and Honda did nothing for four more years and in 1977 did not even have a 250 two stroke ...but it was harley- Davidson who showed up at the 1977 Daytona with an Aermacchi Harley-Davidson MX250 two stroke supercross bike that took the competition about two years to catch up ..mean time Honda and the ama said the new Harley was a piece of shit ..too tall too stiff and the engine was too pipey causing the rider to square off 180 degree berms , double in and double out of the whoops and clear all table tops like they were doubles ..and so nobody bought them ..willy g got pissed and shut down production ...and the fastest best handling Italiano q250 two-stroke was gone for good thanks to Honda who the next year Honda copied the Harley Aermacchi MX250 two stroke almost identical and Honda was back in the game
images.app.goo.gl/WzzvQWa9sMVXcJ5q6
images.app.goo.gl/axYpDKCNvaX6j6Vc7
The in the 80's when Kenny Roberts ate this oval piston Honda alive with four YZ125 top ends on one crank case with two crankshafts that made a 500cc square 4 with 200 HP and it was over until Honda and the EPA ban two strokes from production
www.motorcyclenews.com/amp/news/2015/november/mcn-plus---picture-story-rd500/
This engine was a thing of beauty! It's overly complex for the minimal gains in bhp, but an amazing feat of engineering! Honda has always stretched the limits of the materials of the time. It's hard to wrap your head around dime-sized pistons moving at 20,000 rpm in those 'old' HRC 50cc engines Honda built wayyyy back in the 60's! Great video, great subject! Now I got to look for the 250cc six that Hailwood rode- another great story of engineering!
Oval pistons are quite interesting. One of my favorite bikes Honda made and that is the CR500 2-stroke
Yes that is a powerful bike
A very interesting observation, at the height of Honda's domination of F1 with their incredible V6, new regulations for the next season came out stating that engines 'must have round pistons'. hmmmmmm
There was a reason for that rule, as if Honda could solve the sealing issue with the Rings they would have basically circumvented the V8 rule that had been in place since the mid 50's due to Moto Guzzi and their incredible 500cc V8. It produced practically double the power of it's competition and coupled with that slick dust bin faring it easily exceeded the tech of tires and frames. Basically it was a fast way of getting killed in a grand manner. This same grand death trap would have been revived.
Thats why I dont like F1 at all. Absolutely overregulated. Just give the teams a fixed budget, let them build whatever they want, may the best win. Thats how it should be.
Whatever machine you're sourcing, if Honda makes it, it's a safe bet it'll be a solid performer. Great company.
Sorry I can think of numerous Honda Bikes that had shall I say Issues. The oval piston race bike was a dismal failure, it has been a while but I believe that it NEVER won a major race. Now for other Honda Bikes, sorry I worked on bikes part time while in the Military and know quite well some of the Honda, ah shit issues. One that is well covered up is the Infamous Honda 500cc V4's. They claim it had a long production run, well yes it lasted for over a decade in production but EVERY of the over 11 reengineered engines had similar issues. First units didn't have cam bearings, yep the cam ran on the aluminum of the head, and that didn't work out very well. Then they went thru various changes and always there was a high mileage excessive ware problem. Try and find one now days, or if you have one try finding any parts for them. They all had crankshaft issues due to contamination of the oil system. Once the bike was out of warranty it was your problem, we had a small shop run by a retiree military guy and he had part time military or military retirees doing the work. We were nitpicky on our work, do it right or not at all was the sign on the wall. Well after maybe 10-12 of these bikes we declined to work on them due to the issues. Another was that CM400 Honda with the chain driven counter balancer, it wasn't if but when it would break and destroy the engine. We started taking them out, yep the vibrated a little more but then they didn't blow up. You had to do some internal mods though.
Interesting info. Thanks.
I never buy a Honda motorcycle again, simply cannot afford the parts and repair. Plus, Yamahas handle a lot better, Suzukis too, but having spent almost no money at all on any Yamaha the choice is easy. Love Italian bikes but lets be honest, poor quality is always one of the first things that comes up when discussing Italian bikes.
@@pflaffik Honda is good at hiding a problem child bike quite well. If you remember they marketed the VFR-500 for about 11 years overall and they all had engine issues. We had a small rehab shop in HI at the time, a handful of Military active and retired part time wrench twisting types, which started as a group hobby to a business. You get the picture, make your vacation a vocation. Well we got several of these Golden Turkeys along with several other Japan Brands that cost us a small fortune. The VFR-500 was a local Dr. who had it in college and wanted it rehabbed. Well the body work, i.e. paint and finish stuff wasn't hateful to procure. Now for the engine, that was a different story. Seems as if there were basically 9 versions of that engine and little if any crossing of parts. They ALL had CAM related issues, and that led to crankshaft fails. They ALL had spun bearings at around the 30-40k mile range on the crank. We found that they could not be reground, or for that fact you couldn't have them welded up and reground either due to the construction methods. They were face hardened and the steel under that was the strength of silly putty, as a race shop that rebuilt racing engines informed us. So at the time, in the late 80's, a functioning used crankshaft was going for around $1200 if you could find one and a good condition one was around $2400 again if it could be found. As for New, forget that Honda dropped them like a hot rock. We ended up on the short end of the stick on that Golden Turkey as we had nearly twice in the rebuild than the bike sold for new and the Dr. simply handed the title over to us vice paying the bill. He wasn't mad and thought we were trying to screw him, simply he didn't realize how expensive the parts were. From then on we DEMANDED that customers authorize parts purchases at a agreed price. A warning to all of you rehab it yourself guys and gals out there beware of orphan models from Japan, a simple component may not be available at ANY price and fabrication gets real expensive real fast. But a finished project is something to be proud of your skills. Make your vocation a vacation and enjoy the voyage of life.
Used to be
Every "failed project" yields knowledge.
It could be new machining techniques or material technology, no learning is ever wasted.
The project might have ultimately been a dead end, but learnings from it would've improved other successful products.
The only real failure is the attempt you didn’t learn anything from.
Concord was a case in point, titanium drilling,all from the 70s
Well said. Over the past 20 years as a research scientist I've always tried to tell students, people I've trained that the only failed experiment is one that you cannot learn from
But what did they learn? While Honda was wasting engineering resources on wild goose chases, the people at Yamaha kept focus and soon came out with the greatest street legal 4 stroke racer, the FZR400 which i have owned, and i driven similar Hondas from the 80ies as well, including the CBR400F. They look similar, both are 4cyl 16valve 400cc 4-stroke, both look like racers but only the Yamaha is, mainy due to the revolutionary Deltabox frame, it had no equal, the difference from other bikes is much bigger than you can imagine. CBR400F was a major disappointment but became popular, mostly due to Yamahas decision to not take the FZR400 to Europe (mine was a Japan import). Meanwhile, the CBR400F was like a cow in a horse race, it had nothing to do on a track, with less time wasted on oval bling the 80ies Hondas might have turned out competitive. So NO, Honda DIDNT LEARN ANYTHING from its oval lemon.
I had heard back when this engine was released Honda were developing this as a V8 but the ruling body had stipulated 4 cylinder maximum. So Honda used oval pistons to overcome this. Also I believe the slipper clutch was on the CBX750FE which I owned in the mid 80s and preceded the V4.
Honda did not start developing this as a V8 since the limitation in the number of cylinders was one of the reasons they pulled out of racing at the end of the 60s in other words, the limitation was there long before they started work on the NR. At the time, they were racing a 50cc twin, a 5-cylinder 125cc, and the legendary 250 and 350 (actually 297cc) six-cylinders, all of which revved well beyond 20k rpm. Honda new that to make more rpm, you need to divide the engine displacement into multiple lighter and smaller reciprocating components, so they certainly would have liked to build a proper V8, but since the rules didn't allow that, they went with what was basically a V8 with siamesed bores.
@@CaptHollister correct... the cylinder restriction was the result of moto guzzi's unbeatable 1966 v8 gp bike... the cylinder number wasnt the issue... it was piston speed limitations... for a 4-stroke to compete with 2-strokes needed comparable number of ignition cycles... which dictates double the rpm... basic maths & physics
@@Errol.C-nz nope. Moto Guzzi's V8 raced in the 50s, before Moto Guzzi retired at the end of the decade. The rule change was due to many factors, but Guzzi's V8 wasn't one of them
@@Errol.C-nz The Moto Guzzi V8 was raced briefly in the 1950s and never won a race, but killed riders. The way you obtain higher RPM is to fraction the engine displacement down into multiple smaller, lighter reciprocating parts. Thanks to this fractioning of displacement, the Honda 50cc twin, the 5-cylinder 125 and the 250 and 350 sixes could all rev to more than 20,000rpm. They had no flywheels to speak of and 8 or more transmission gears to compensate for the narrow powerband. Limiting the number cylinders absolutely put a limitation on how fast four-stroke engines could rev with 1970s-1980s technology.
The difference between 2 and 4 strokes is more complex than that. Yes, 2-strokes fire twice as often as 4-strokes, but until the advent of variable exhaust ports, they also had lower effective compression ratios due to the large losses straight out the exhaust port and lower brake mean effective pressure.And they have even narrower power bands. The Suzuki 50cc 2-stroke twin, for example had 14 gears on which the rider had to play a constant tap dance.
@@CaptHollister yes i got my date periods wrong... but short stroke principle to keep piston speeds under limits is the factor of more cylinders... piston & cylinder technology has enabled shorter & shorter bore stroke ratios key to higher rpm for the same displacements etc etc... but yeah agree with the complexities of 2 vs 4-stroke physics... cylinder heat being a critical one for 2-stroke & auto ignition (detonation? dieseling as has been called)... compressions vs corrected port timings are same issues towards powerbands for both... the NR had the same gutlessness down low... just that as rpms go up mechanical resistences go up by the square... still, they gave it a dam good go & established a lot of the foundations for todays 4-stroke race bikes
I attended a track day a few years ago here in New Zealand and there was an NR750 in my class, I will never forget being passed around the outside by the oval piston beauty 😍
One of the few times you don't mind being passed.
A great topic and video as always, VisioRacer! you bring some really unique info to the table with your videos, I always love learning the stuff you have to offer. Keep it up! Thanks for what you do, have a great day.
Much appreciated, mate!
Thanks for the very interesting history lesson into Honda's motorcycle racing past!
A great video/documentary, as always! The sound of the NR750 is awesome. Thank you!
Thanks for posting this vid. I remember when the NR500 was racing. I always wanted to see an oval piston. This is the first time I've seen one!
Thanks for the video . love Hondas. I read about how Honda started from a simple bicycle shop. My first and second cars were both 1978 Honda Accords hatchback 5- speed. Those cars were so dependable I went between New York and Toronto over and over again with them. Right now I have a 1978 Honda CB125S motorcycle which is my regular mode of transportation 12 months of the year through all four seasons.
Another great video, Visio. I have read that oval pistons occurred as a byproduct of chasing number of valves and airflow, not "cheating" a v8 out of the rules as they were at the time. In a circle, once you have 6 valves and a spark plug, there's no more head left, but lining up the valves allowed 8. In the same article it was mentioned that Honda also had a turbo GP engine in development at the same time - which was allowed at 1/2 half displacement - so they had 250cc turbo parallel twin that revved to 20,000 and made 125hp, but whose power characteristics would be unrideable, so they went with the oval piston 500... Honda is fascinating.
I believe you are incorrect. To compete against 2 strokes Honda needed their 4 strokes to rev high to make the same power as two strokes which fire twice as often. More, smaller cylinders (each with lower mass) allow the engine to rev higher. Honda had been successfully racing (normally aspirated) 4 stroke bikes with lots of pistons, for example there was the RC166 an inline 6 cylinder 250cc, the 1966 RC149 an in-line five-cylinder 125cc, as well 50cc twins and various others.
They wanted to build a V8 500 but new rules had been put in place banning engines with more than 4 cylinders by merging pairs of pistons together. The NR project was indeed an attempt to get all the beneifts of a V8 with only 4 pistons as the video suggested.
Had it been an airflow thing wouldn't they have attempted to put valves at each end (longitudinally) as well for max airflow, essentially 5 valves per cylinder compared w/ traditional designs? As built, the oval design utilised 8 valves per cylinder, or 4 per cylinder vs cylindrical designs. If more air was the goal, wouldn't we expect Honda to cram in more relative valves than the standard 4?
@@williambrasky3891 My initial comment was based on quotes from Honda engine designer Suguru Kanazawa (NR750 road bike) about the development of Honda’s GP bike in Classic Bike magazine October 2017 issue. Here’s a bit of it:
“When Shoichiro Irimajiri-san and his staff were given the responsibility of designing a ‘new engine’ for Honda’s return to racing in the 1970s - which basically meant not a two stroke - they realized they must increase valve size as much as possible to improve breathing and achieve more power through higher rpm. By using a single cylinder engine for experiments, we tried five, six and seven valves per cylinder but the results were not satisfactory.
We discovered you must have either four or eight valves per cylinder. With four valves, we could not achieve the necessary flow, but with eight valves the problem was how to arrange them on a round cylinder, and to operate them in a suitable way. Then one day, Irimajiri-san was driving home from his office, when he stopped at a traffic light. In Japan these are suspended in the air, with filter lights for protected direction changes underneath the three usual lights. He looked up and saw two rows, each with four lights, hanging in the air side by side. He suddenly realized how it would be possible to make an eight valve cylinder using an oval piston. The next day we began the development of the NR New Racing design!
After we made the decision to use oval piston technology, other advantages became apparent which, honestly speaking, we did not think of at first. Everyone compares one eight valve oval piston to two round four valve pistons, and because it was forbidden to make a V8 engine for 500 GP racing, people thought we made the oval piston V4 to avoid this rule. But this is not so; the technical advantages are even greater than a round piston V8, making the oval piston design the preferred choice in any case…”
...and then he goes on to list the advantages, and they were competing enough to entice them into trying to surmount the many difficulties of making an oval piston engine. Very interesting article. So anyway, that’s all I got, just an article in Classic Bike - but words straight from someone on the design team.
Cheers, T.
I think the theory would be to have a short stroke with the big bore, to create the high revs required.
Honda is and has always been the best motor builder, nice video 🙂
What a fantastic video you made! Congrats! And Thanks!
I was a teen reading on mags some of that story!
Unique bike!
What if they got it right and they got known for building oval piston civics and a 10k rpm nsx...
Your videos are awesome👍 keep them coming. Thank you
Great video, I learnt something more about Honda and their oval piston engines. 👍🏼
A brother of a good friend of mine talked about how his company was contracted by Honda to make a measuring device for the oval piston bores. It was interesting because he really didn't know anything about motorcycles and treated it just like any other job. On the other hand I remember 1979 and Honda flexing their technological muscle bragging how a 4 stroke would dominate 2 stroke GP racing. It was a humbling experience for Honda. The NR750 was Honda getting the last word in.😁
woww now im motivated to make an -oval- triangle piston for my 83" 100cc 2 stroke yamaha as well!!
So, basically you want to make a Wankel rotary
@@CaptHollister non rotational triangle.
Basically like inverse hemi haha
A Yamaha 100cc will never die, enthusiasts are still importing new parts for RS100 from Philippines. Most sold motorcycle in history i guess.
@@pflaffik Not even close. The most sold motorcycle in history, in fact, the most sold motor vehicle of any kind in history, is the Honda Super Cub which has so far sold more than 100 million units, not counting all the more or less legal Chinese copies, and is still in production.
I'm pretty happy that your channel has a lot of success,keep the good work😃👌
Thank you, mate!
We have a 2.2 diesel Civic with 347k miles on her - Hondas first foray into diesels and it makes the Fords Vws and Renault loke old cart horses- its smooth quiet loads of torque - of course the tree hugging save the planet brigade have put a stop to it - Honda don't imitate they innovate - Loved the oval piston story ! Thanks for that !!
Civic diesel , never heard of that ,but no doubt it's the best .
The newer 2.2 i-DTEC has more issues, risky to buy used compared to a VW 2.0 TDI.
Anyone remember the excellent 'hate something, change something' advert?
That they got the rings to seal boggles my mind.
Great point!
From the video it seems they installed the rings with the gaps on opposing sides which should in theory work. I am just not sure of the advantages of the design if there are any. I guess if they could have got success with a reliable engine that hits 20k RPM we would have seen it in production.
Good video. Thankyou for making it. ✌️
Honda is the biggest producer of internal combustion engines in the world
Another fact about Honda is that their Honda Cub engine is the most prolific petrol combustion motor ever made. They made millions of them and then licensed other manufacturers to use the design.
@@howardosborne8647 billions in number
Excellent video. Thank you!
Loved this video. Would like to see videos like this more often
Thanks!
That NR750 it's the stuff of wet dreams ! 😍👍
I had a 1987 45VF 750r or was it VF 45 750r the engine was Vfour at 45° of separation between the V part 750cc had lots more power than i ever could use that bike would pull front wheel n just turn of the wrist or turn rear tire during lite acceleration leave black marks on concrete road
@@scottyjones27 yep everything is fast when you are 18 , don't drive the new Fireblade SP @250bhp at the back wheel , We live in great times
Simple explanation: high revving engines have a short stroke and a large bore. They are OVERsquare. The more width of combustion chamber, the higher it can rev because the piston doesn't have to travel as far or as fast to move the same displacement. The slower pistons move and the lighter they are, the faster the engine can revolve.
Honda has always built some of the best stuff out there, out of all the bikes I've owned the 1983 v65 magna was my favorite! Man that was one screaming machine!!!
One of my faves too. The first generation V-Max was another.
The first production bike in the 9's (with 110 lb "Pee Wee" Gleason on board 😂), which is impressive even for a modern day bike.
This is why I love Hondas. They were always so innovative and found that competitive edge to get an advantage
Well made video sir, good job ,very informative and enjoyable to watch.
Much appreciated, Bradley!
Awesome concept. I’m not sure adding more contact area between the piston rings and the cylinder all makes sense but it definitely makes sense to distribute the force along the driveshaft and wrist pins if you’re going to go for higher rpm.
I had totally forgot about this piston design and motor. I barely remember the articles on it, but was impressed with what I thought was a brilliant design. Interesting to see what finally came of it. Honda is one impressive motor when it comes to horsepower and durability...
Nice video man.
I like that they did manage to develop it more and make a good engine out of it in the end and put out a great road bike.
Excellent video!
Thanks for sharing!
Bruh Yoshimura was a honda engineer!?! No wonder that combo is so beautiful in moderm technology
Another excellent video!
Thanks!
Was at Silverstone and withessed Ron Haslam do well on one, many years ago. I loved the exhaust tone, a Bretten or gig Buell sounds similar.
Why would Honda build a 10000 rpm oval piston engine? Because they can.
Not really, no, they wanted to build a V8 but new rules stipulated that 4 cylinders was the maximum. This was an attempt to get all the advntages of a V8 but with only 4 cylinders but it never really worked. Even the NR750 was only sold in limited numbers and had only just over half the horsepower they had been aiming for because otherwise it couldn't be made reliable.
So, to counter your comment; not only dod they not make it because they could; they couldn't. It was a glorious failure.
exactly it’s because they wanna
Only one way to find out what works!
My question would be why would they NOT build it.
the rumors was promising
made.me think of rotary engine
beeing a mechanic
i knew it wouldn't be right
especially reliability
thats why i live honda for ever
I didn't actually know that they released a production variant of that engine in a road-going bike. Good to know. Thanks for the insightful video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
My very first bike was a Honda C50 Cub which I quickly upgraded to a CD175, then a CB250G5. Lots of Hondas followed. Today I own 11 Hondas, 1 BMW, 2 Bultacos and I Velocette.
I have no interest whatsoever in any Suzukis, Kawasakis or Yamahas. I’m considering a 2008 MV Brutale, and the 1969 MV 750 Four is always on the list, as are several Moto Guzzis.
You have good taste on bikes...
With Yamaha you would need only 1 bike, and no repairs, i can see why that would be boring.
@@pflaffik Really? Which one? I cannot think of a single Yamaha that has ever interested me.
My bike collection contains mostly classics for my own riding enjoyment and investment (some are quite rare), and specials I’ve built myself. Some I’m restoring for sale.
Two are twinshock trials bikes. I also have European, Japanese domestic market and American examples of two models.
I loved my Bultaco Alpina!
Crazy beautiful engine, fascinating technology. Insane that they made it work.
I remember the oval pistons, and wondered how the heck that worked, and how the rings worked, thanks for this!
In 1979, 500cc GP bikes had to be 'bump started' when the flag dropped. I was on the inside of Copse Corner bend at Silverstone for the British Grand Prix. The 2 NR500s were both difficult to start compared to the 2 strokes. The flag dropped and most of the 2 strokes set off with Takazumi Katayama getting away near the back of the field and the English rider, Mick Grant not being able to start his NR500. He tried for about 100 metres and then it fired and he leapt aboard, rode for about 200 metres and as he reached Copse Corner he fell off and the bike immediately caught fire, right in the middle of the track. Fire Marshalls and Honda techies ran to the bike and put the fire out in a few seconds. The Honda guys then put covers over the bike and carried it away. Mick Grant walked away, slowly shaking his head. The race was real fun, with Barry Sheene narrowly missing out to the winner, Kenny Roberts. A very eventful day especially, as my mate had dropped his Guzzi Le Mans, on the way and came in on my pillion.
Even though it was unsuccessful, the NR500 project was amazing, absolutely fascinating and way ahead of its time. Honda tried too hard with this project, trying to put together too much innovations at a time. Maybe if they started with a more traditional approach to chassis design and engine cooling, GP history could have been really different!
😖
It was still more slow than a privateer on a RG 500 suzuki.
That was the nr-750 not nr500
As the RPMs went beyond any normal 4 stroke engine, I couldn't help bracing for it to blow! Amazing.
That was great - cool video format! I'd love more like this.
Engine sounds crazy!
Awww man! I used to draw oval pistons when I was a kids in the 70s. Cool!!
Thank you!!!
The production oval bike was news to me. Great deep dive
What a great sound
Wow extremely Fascinating 🧐
I like the Parallel Twin engine.
I'm 6'3" 215 pounds, CB500F pulls me around with no problems. Tons of torque and I love the sound.
Wonder how different the world would be for people living in the north if Honda made snowmobiles .
Great video. Because Soichiro (foolishly) hated two strokes, enormous amounts of time, money and resources were wasted on a project that was doomed to fail from the start. Fascinating to see the innovative engineering Honda came up with all the same.
it wasn't doomed to fail from the start, even in this video it showed that they made 1 cylinder test engines to see if it was feasible,and remember...they made a HIGH PERFORMANCE engine with a completely new and innovative design!
@@vasopel It hardly finished a race let alone come close to winning one! Its best finish was a 13th place! It was doomed in that trying to make a 4 stroke compete with a 2 sroke with equal capacity was never going to happen. Even today, if 2 strokes weren't banned a 750 would smash the current 1000 4 strokes. It would make more power, weigh less and with modern electronic systems to control traction and wheelies the 4 strokes would be relegated to boat anchors!
@@brodiejones2028 hm..seems to me you're a two-stroke fanboy, so no point talking anymore,have a nice day ;-)
Soichiro has a money and resources and he just want to "have fun" with his obsession. Honda make good 2 stroke in NSR and CR series.
@@argacc20417 yes nice he could attempt the project at least even if not successful. I previously owned a CR 250 MX bike and currently race a Honda RS125 2 stroke GP bike. It is epic!
You forgot to mention that as the oval piston bikes began winning, the rules got changed to limit engines to one connecting rod per piston, which effectively banned non-round pistons.
Excellent, as always, thanks. Btw, do you have a video about the 2s to 4s changing on GP or motorcycle history? That would be very interesting.
Nope, perhaps in the future
Oval piston NR750 was a boyhood dream machine for me, along with the Desmosidici!
Imagine if those honda engine actually become successful, I really wanna hear this engine rev in person
It’s still one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen
I notice your editing style has changed a bit. And I like it! 😉
Thank you!
@@VisioRacer Keep 'em coming! Fill us with wisdom! 😃
Honda is one incredible company.
Thanks for the video. Ja, at the end of the day you have to ask what for?
With Honda always something new
Interesting Video
A monster from Honda!!! Amazing
Honda only made the SL 90 for one year, 1969, and it was a good looking great riding street legal trail bike that had a cast iron cylinder vs the aluminum sleeved cylinder of the regular 90s. I beat the crap out of my 90 as well as my friends that had the regular stamped steel framed 90s with the aluminum cylinder. We rode bikes all day long in the summers. With the SL 90 I cracked the piston rings several times while under warranty. Some times a bore job and new piston and rings, sometimes a whole new cylinder. One time the cylinder and parts were sent to Japan for inspection by the engineers. I talked to the US distributer by phone, they wanted to know what I was doing. I explained that I heard the ring snap once after going down in water and after the motor died. It was later relayed to me via the dealer that I needed to run the bike normally after pushing it hard to allow the cast iron cylinder to cool, and also, no more warranty claims. At the time they said I held the US record for warranty claims for a Honda 90. May of just been dealer BS but it was valid for their shop.
“The cherry on the cake” lol I love you
I just been to Suzuka where the service area of highway located. They exhibited some dirt bikes at the entrance of food street which amazed me.
With today’s manufacturing technology, an oval piston engine and some free valve tech, that would be a killer engine!
That and all aluminum ..would probably be the best pound for pound
Although free valve alone makes it killer
I love picking on Hondas but Jesus Christ they are some amazing machines
This omits the fact that Honda was planning on using their clout to change GP rules and let four stroke V8s race against V4 two strokes. The FIM said "NO" so Honda stuck their necks out and made the V8 into a V4. We called the NR, the "Not Ready."
If I remember correctly, the NR750 in 1992 was $60,000 US dollars. A production bike, yes, buy certainly not produced for the masses. As a young man, though, what a machine to be amazed by.
That 500 sounds so good
Had a Honda dirt bike as a kid. Accidentally launched it into a river. Spent all day in there while I walked home to get help. Pulled it out. Started on the first kick..loved that bike.
The windscreen on the NR750 was tinted/ mirrored with titanium. They cost thousands of dollars if you can find one.
While visiting Japan in the early 1990's, I saw a few of these engines in the Honda Museum. Very impressive in person.
I had to wait until now to watch this, but I knew it would be a great vid when it started appearing on my homepage last week. Honda has always been an engine company, and damn good at making engines. They have decades of experience as a F1 engine supplier, but have always had their focus on cars be with economy cars. Whether you're talking about a neglected engine or an overstressed engine, Honda has your back (with winters/road salt, you're on your own).
They developed the 4 stroke cvcc car engine and revealed to the world that year. I have an 87 crx high fuel (hf) that gets 60 mpg on the highway. Same engine. Oh yeah, it meets emissions without a catalytic converter. Just an engine doing clean work running at 21 to 1 air fuel ratio. Please look it up. Its soooo Honda in every way. Cars had it till 88'. What fantastic engineering they had back then. Also the technology was debuted in 66 in a Nissan because they didn't have a chassis big enough for the engine. Bravo. Imagine what those engineers could do now without restraints!
That early 90's NR750 was my dream bike at the time. I wanted one so bad... alas I had to settle for a brand new for 1993 CBR 600F2 in Red White and Blue. Interestingly enough I picked it up from the dealership in Nov 1992.
The only new thing honda needs to make: olive crushers to provide vag trashcans with fresh oil. Hahahaha
αχαχαχαχαχαχαχα καλο 🤣🤣
The never ready 500 sounded fantastic as it ran last in the race.
That bike sounds sic
my favorite line was:
"i'm not sure if we were experimenting with cutting edge technologies or obsessed with foolish ideas"
The obsession was the big boss who disliked 2-strokes. He was a very special man. One of his friends was a Filipino billionaire from Cebu, who was granted the right to manufacture Honda motorcycles for the Philippine market, without any quality control from Honda, you will not find poorer made bikes, not competitive at all, and it helped Yamaha RS100 gain a reputation as unbreakable - of course RS100 wasnt unbreakable but compared to the nearest competitor Honda they were, so when the RS100 finally was discontinued in favour of a 4-stroke 125cc there were storms of complaints and they had to start making them again.
Please do a video on the Legendary built proof 3800 buick
That's definitely a unique design. Reminds me of the classic chicken sandwiches from Burger 🍔 King 👑 though 😁
Those were sooo good, especially the Italian one.
top video ty
It's channels like these were a voice over person would be encouraged.
Would love to see that in a Go-Kart !!
Mmmmmmm.
Yummy.
I remember Honda had the NR750 with oval pistons
Was this put in the Iconic NR750