DR650 project: basic suspension mods and tips︱Cross Training Adventure
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2016
- From the suspension guys at www.fullforceracing.com.au The DR650 finally gets its first stage suspension mods at Full Force Racing Components... a budget job on the front forks and a revalve on the rear shock - much better now. FFRC will do the DR650 suspension in various stages so we can look at the improvements each time. FFRC are sponsors for this series. As we mentioned in the first vid, the DR650 is a brilliant budget bike to transform into the sort of beast you want, once you work on a few major design issues. This is James from Full Force Racing Components, a suspension guru with more than a decades experience in designing, manufacturing and tuning custom suspension components for V8 racing cars, rally cars and all facets of motorbike suspension - motocross, enduro, speedway, flat track, and of course adventure bikes. He'll be modifying the DR650's suspension in various stages, this vid looks at his first steps in making that suspension work properly. The big one is suspension. If you are a featherweight and riding nothing harder than smooth dirt roads, you will find the stock setup okay, but the problem of course is the moment you are in trouble it won't be doing you any favours. The front end dives badly under panic braking, and if you run off the road it will bounce you like a trampoline in the rough stuff. The major problems? The springs are way too soft for most riders unless you are 75kg or less (165lb). The forks are the ancient rod design, have no damping adjustment, and virtually no damping either. And the dual rate fork springs are far too soft for too far into stroke before the stiffer part of the spring comes into action. Soft spring rate is a wimpy 0.38kg/mm spring rate. After seven inches it transfers to the stiffer 0.53kg/mm rate - this should occur at only three inches.
If you use heavier oil to get damping, you can't get good performance on both fast and slow fork movements, unlike a modern cartridge fork. Just pause to read more. There is nothing like a huge lump of metal between your legs to make you focus, pick good lines, use your body positioning and get your technique right. And the buzz of getting a big bike through some tough terrain is awesome. It also reinforces the fact that we usually put way too much emphasis on bling, or tyres, or suspension or the type of bike we are riding. Yes those things can make a difference, but in the long run it's far more important to learn the skills.
The rear spring does have adjustment for the compression damping, which barely makes any difference anyway. It is underdamped, and the ratio of compression to rebound damping is way out of sync too. First gear on the DR650 is the equivalent of third gear on many dirt bikes so there's plenty of clutch slipping to get the big bushpig over obstacles. Those of you familiar with Chris Birch will know he's been racing a KTM 1190 in enduros. Crazy? Yes but I can see why he's enjoying it. Having said that, the DR650 modifications we've made to the DR650 have transformed the beast into a much better bike. But it was often the other way around too. So there you have it. Many of you asked to see the DR650 on some of our tracks, and the big girl will probably feature a few more times too. Long live heavy metal. Oh and remember if you become a supporter you can access four extra ride vids each month. All for the cost of a cup of coffee. Or any caffeinated beverage. And far cheaper than a cocktail. If you are interested, watch our DR650 project bike series over on our adventure riding channel. It was very interesting to even see the dirt bikes occasionally make mistakes when the DR was having no problems.
Let us know if we used your music in other vids but forgot to credit you. Many thanks to the following artists for their copyright free music in various vids:
Music: www.purple-planet.com
Music: audionautix.com/
Music by Tobu: tobu.io
Music: www.bensound.com/royalty-free...
Music: soundimage.org - กีฬา
WARNING ABOUT FFRC PLEX VALVES The creators of DR650 Plex Valves sold the FFRC business. We picked up new Plex Valves for our latest DR650s and unfortunately they just don't seem to work they way they used to as the new owners have tweaked them. The forks are quite harsh and lost all the 'plushness'. We even tried 2.5W fork oil with no success. I would recommend trying the Intiminators or Cogent DDC instead until things get fixed. It seems FFRC has changed yet again to new owners... 🤔
COMPLETE LIST OF DR650 PROJECT VIDS
Introduction to the DR650 th-cam.com/video/58vB-5urcJI/w-d-xo.html
Power mods overview th-cam.com/video/z7GcNdlDwdk/w-d-xo.html
Transforming the carburetor th-cam.com/video/aN1aU0G4YQE/w-d-xo.html
GSXR exhaust mod th-cam.com/video/Em6SzMTF5SY/w-d-xo.html
DR650 known issues th-cam.com/video/rSNBa63UWx8/w-d-xo.html
Basic suspension mods th-cam.com/video/aTYAwIBX9aQ/w-d-xo.html
Protection for the DR th-cam.com/video/NQcXfOJsLSM/w-d-xo.html
Ergos: pegs, bars & seats th-cam.com/video/geLR5u8sMhI/w-d-xo.html
Weight reduction th-cam.com/video/h6fl-GWdURk/w-d-xo.html
Best suspension mods th-cam.com/video/sGdLm9sXzdo/w-d-xo.html
Fixing noisy starter motors th-cam.com/video/6P4n80FJP18/w-d-xo.html
Headlight upgrades th-cam.com/video/G28GoyWp6LI/w-d-xo.html
Steg Pegz review th-cam.com/video/SnI_pfkuQsg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the video! Would you be open to doing a DRZ400 project series? Would love to get an in depth take on how to improve the suspension on that bike.
That Suzuki horse... almost killed me. Too funny!
+sassed1 2many sweet hey? saw it on facebook and told the guy it would have to go into the next DR vid :)
Wouldn't it be nice if stuff came good out of the factory? Just a few inexpensive changes at the factory could really set some bikes apart.
+eveRide ADV it really doesn't make sense tyler. i know designing and retooling are expensive but suzuki could mainly just tweak existing parts. things like better springs and thicker fork and shock oil wouldn't even cost extra at all.
eveRide ADV a
The upgrades are part of making the bike more fun to ride. You can tweek it in areas that are important to you.
dang.....I really miss that intro music...nostalgia probably, but I love it as background for your vids, dunno why......oh well...
liked just for the warning at the beginning, anything else is a bonus haha
+offtheclockuk i'm sure i'll get sued at some anyway lol
Excellent series, Barry. Between you and Mr. Duhfactor, we get a healthy dose of suspension education, which for me is much needed. D'oh!
+osimnod i could rename myself mr doh factor perhaps :)
“Ancient rod design in the dr650”
I nod and agree as I’m actively converting my Harley to the older style by removing my emulators to justify lengthening my forks..)
Both my Harley chopper and now my DR650 have been an exercise in learning as I go, and videos in this series and others have been integral in helping me be a little less blind as I go along. I’m lucky that I’m light enough that the DR’s suspension was “acceptable” but as I get more and more into it I’m learning how acceptable doesn’t mean good. Thanks for putting this information out here in a way that’s easy to understand!
I've had a few DR650s now and I always keep the suspension stock for at least a few months to remind myself it's more about riding style than suspension mods. But man, it is always nice once the mods are done lol.
This series is awesome. Your doing a great job keep it up!
+DR Dan thanks dan, i know this vid largely just presents info that it out there already, but at least it's in one spot. in the next suspension vid i reckon there could be some new stuff no one has seen before, fingers crossed
Another great one.
Well done bud!! EXCELLENT!!!! Going in the right direction!!
+MrDuhfactor getting there... great rear end but just have to get the front dialled in properly now :)
can't wait to see it run when the mods are completed! thanks for another great episode.
+Randy Johnson likewise randy... i think after the next suspension mods and getting decent knobbies the DR will be really hitting its stride
Educational, thanks for posring :)
Can't wait to see that next upgrade.
+Tokkets they are still working on the suspension components but about to do another vid that's just some bling items....
Great stuff! Looks like he was scraping the poor DR's belly on the ground on those whoops at the start. I can't say I'm surprised though, haha!
Love your vids, guys! Stumbled onto the "why we ride in middle age" or some such, and haven't looked back since. Keep riding and shooting!
+BirdArvid ah yes that was a very silly vid. if i had any idea it would spread so widely i would have done a much better version :)
Hope at the end we can get the valve mods inside the rear shock. I have a lathe so could do these mods if I have the details. Great series, well done.
+Colin Riley i'll see what i can do colin. obviously any suspension tuner is not likely to hand out details but i've noticed FFRC do give out a fair bit of info publicly...
thanks for the tips, taking my dr650 around west oz on a camping trip - making a video series of the roadtrip
+MysticBarefoot nice one, hope you have a great trip! hopefully get this DR out for a big one when everything is set up :)
La suspensión de esta moto es excelente, es una muy buena maquina toda
When is the next suspension video coming out? I have loved your series and await with enthusiasm for your next video about DR650 upgrades. Thank you again for all the time and effort you put in to these.
whenever FFRC finish the next upgrade i'll report on it... hopefully soon!
I recently got both front and rear racetech springs which are set to my weight. It has made a big difference. The lack of front nose dive is the most noticable. I look forward to seeing you out on the trails at Mt Mee one day.
+stonemonkey any changes to the damping or valving stonemonkey?
Yeah when my mechanic put in the new springs they also added rebound separator valves. He told me that if I had any issues to call him and bring the bike back in as they still had a bit of wiggle room of adjustment. One of the hardest things about suspension is knowing if it is good or not. You can tell if suspension has changed things but it is a bit hard to know if it is "perfect" unless you ride the same make of bike with perfectly tuned suspension and compare.
+stonemonkey yep, can be quite hard to get it dialled in just right. i know some guys run over and over the same bumps and play with the clickers till it all smooths out... personally i don't worry too much as long as the bike isn't so bad it's trying to throw me off.
love the informational videos . i own the 2016 dr650 was out riding in whoops and sugar sand bone stock suspension im an agressive rider bike was allll over the place between the shit stock tires soft suspension i went down 4 times today making me feel like a beginner rider i hopped on my buddies cr250 and wow what a difference.. thing i noticed instantly was how well it took the whoops i took it as the cr250s suspension was wayyy stiffer and knobbies but i want my dr to handle sugar sand and whoops like the 250
+Erik troy even the most basic cheapest mods to the suspension will held a lot erik. but once you redo the valving and springs both ends it is a totally different bike to ride, you'll love it. this is just a silly vid but shows who easy the DR is to ride once you do the full job on the suspension: th-cam.com/video/VJMYMC4jxKM/w-d-xo.html
I could be wrong but the inner chamber of the DR shock is soft aluminum which gets chafed by the seal under hard use. Which in turn chews up the piston seal and causes total loss of damping. I have seen a few stock DRs go pogo after a day of rocks. Hopefully you will touch upon this and/or shown the inside of a blown out DR shock.
+Ryan Harrington great point ryan, we'll be covering that in the second stage of the suspension mods.
I just phoned up Full Force Racing this morning, and I'm sending my DR650 rear suspension off to them this afternoon, looking forward to seeing how much better it is.
+Busa Richard i think you'll like it richard! have you already done the forks, or going to try the do-it-yourself mods first?
+ADVENTURE OZ I'm doing the heavy springs and 10w oil in the front and will see how that feels. they quoted me $220 for the revalving job on the rear and I think that's bloody fantastic. . looking forward to getting the big girl back together, can't wait for the end of July and our Cape Trip. .
+Busa Richard very good idea to try the do-it-yourself on the forks first. $220 is incredibly cheap for a revalve, absolutely no point trying the tedious tricky do-it-yourself stuff on the rear at that price.
I went whole hog on the front suspension (thanks, Procycle!) and got the Cogent drop in cartridges and appropriately weighted springs. It's seriously a whole new bike. I wish I had skipped the TM40 carb and saved that money for my rear suspension. Suspension just makes such a massive difference.
+dustysquito i did have an FCR on a DR650 once and maybe it wasn't set up well, but i didn't really notice any difference between it and the BST magic mods. but then i'm always the guy who will do it cheap and easy where possible instead of shelling out the cash. :)
Everything I had read told me that the TM40 should have been this massive, awesome improvement over the stock BST40. I had already drilled the slide, messed with jets, and got a tapered needle, and I guess I didn't realize what a change it made. After I put in my pumper carb, I didn't make it out of my neighborhood before wishing I had spent the money on something else. Speaks volumes for how much you can do with that stock unit.
+dustysquito that's what i've heard many say, i don't want to kill off sales of the pumper carb but just think guys should mod the stock carby first and see what they think :)
excellent info in here mate, the pig will be dancing all over the dirt soon enough!!
+Andy Pandy Motovlogs oo yeah!
This is the fork upgrade I've currently gone with. Heavier shock spring also. I'm looking forward to throwing away a little more money and being able to trust the bike a bit more though
+Sweetman same here sweetman, we've got it pegged between doing a better job than stock but only coping with fast choppy ground and big jumps reasonably well, the best you can hope for with rod forks. FFRC will try to invent something like the intiminators (no mods, just drop them in) but with adjustable rebound and compression damping too hopefully. and cheaper too.
nice set up that guy has! i bet he could even get my beloved kdx 220 going straight.
+markmtbrider he seems to really know his stuff. at first i thought the dyno machine he uses was just a bit of bling but it's incredibly accurate and takes away a lot of the guesswork e.g. they had the well known KTM 4CS forks issue sorted within an hour or so using the dyno.
seems no one has much nice to say about the 4cs. if its so bad,its hard to believe ktm would use it.
+markmtbrider i don't know the full story behind it but it's certainly got a lot of ktm riders pissed off. after this many years in the market they should be able to get the suspension sorted before selling the bikes. :(
I love this series and can't wait to see the final product. You talked about intiminators and emulators, but are you intending on trying out the Cogent Dynamics' Drop-in Dynamic Cartridges (DDC)? I was hoping to get a set eventually (once the CAD$ improves a bit) and would love to get a good comparison review with all the other fixes for the DR's suspension.
Oh, and BTW, on the card showing the two types of suspension, the labels are reversed... the cartridge suspension is on the left, and the rod is on the right.
+Gervais Albert doh, thanks for that gervais, made a correction. the vids take so long to put together sometimes that i get sloppy checking stuff toward the end. from what i read, the FFRC guys will be doing something similar to cogent, but they want to add both adjustable rebound and compression damping into the same drop in unit if possible. not sure if it's doable but fingers crossed.
i was bouncing all over the place on the dr and no traction tire diggin in die go soft front end . florida sugar sand
thanks im 160 lbs was looking at the recor emulators for front forks not sure what to do about the rear i just adjusted the compression to the max on rear (after i got back home) and the rear definitely feels stiffer i put 1/2 longer fork spacers it definitely helped it stay up a bit i was going to try n go a half inch longer longer yet again . still want the emulators
I know full force now! I bought some golden tyres off them.
+JoeJoe Moto good bunch of guys, they sponsor quite a few local mx riders which is always a good sign
For $1000 you would be better off doing a 450 USD front end, something with decent brakes as well.
Rear shock can use 450exc, or Husqvarna.
I use emulators in my vintage bike and am happy with the results.
+The Wild Alaskan had them in my last DR with good results. FFRC are hoping to invent something like the intiminators but with adjustable rebound and compression damping.
When are you doing another front end suspension video ?
p.s.Keep up the good work :-)
not sure rick, FFRC have been extremely busy so just waiting to see when they have their new tricks for the forks manufactured.
Great video! Really nice shop! The front forks are not adjustable so are you setting them up for you body weight... once the bike is loaded and the extra fuel in the IMS tank are they still going to perform decently?
+Sum4Seb yep, just have to set the forks for my weight and 19L of fuel sum4seb. it's not a bad compromise now as the behave reasonably well on fast corrugations and big jumps, but do neither well. massively better than stock of course, but it will need something like emulators, intiminators, or the special valving FFRC are going to design to make it all work properly.
Have you noticed the upper clamp bolts and lower left clamp Bolts don’t flush with the backside they bolt to ?
Triple clamps? No, haven't checked them...
hello, love your videos adv Oz & everide and others. after all the upgrades with sweat added i would love to pick a bike with what i want already without spending 10,000 grand but i am speaking of buying used! by the way i riding light-adv to the woods with some gnarly stuff, yes its a broadband thats why im so confused and dont want to make the same mistake when buying that 2006 klr650, help any suggestions.
So for a lighter rider like 145lbs maybe stock set is adequate?
I've gotta get on this. My bike feels like it never touches the ground on the choppy bits, the rebound is so loose.
+sixthisoverdrive yup, that sounds like classic DR stock suspension unfortunately
It seems they call it "cash cow", in marketing terms. By the way, whats the cost of that suspension upgrades?
I wonder why someone cant make a full cartridge insert that replaces the existing fork caps?
+Beyond2Wheels that's one of the options that FFRC are going to look at, but they want to make sure it's cost effective too.
I have a '91 which uses linear springs as stock. Since they are worn out, I've decided to try progressive springs from Hyperpro, however I've noticed they're much longer than stock - like, about as long as spring+spacer so I'm wondering if I may be better off fitting them without any spacer installed. Does that make sense to you? I could almost call myself a sort of experienced rider but I'm completely ignorant about suspension.
i wouldn't even hazard a guess about this one, i'd suggest chatting with suspension specialist.
Does your suspension guy have any suggestions on re-shimming the stock valve on the rear shock? I know it doesn't have adjustable rebound, but maybe just some improvements in the rebound valving could help a lot. I have been considering tearing down my rear shock and adding some shims to increase rebound dampening, but don't have resources like a shock dyno so I'm not sure where to begin. I read somewhere that there was a pretty big jump between the high speed shims and the low speed shims so at a certain point it just goes away, maybe a smooth taper of shims?
+Beyond2Wheels a big problem here is no suspension shop gives away their settings usually. :( all i know is that heavier shock oil will help, but you need to increase the rebound damping in respect to the compression damping. i don't even know what they did to the rear shock but the difference was night and day....
+ADVENTURE OZ fair enough... so I'm wondering did they re-shim stock shock or did they replace the valve assembly completely the only reason I ask is I'm looking at doing my own but if it's not worth it why go to the trouble
+Beyond2Wheels i don't know exactly what they did, i'll try to remember to ask them next time i'm up that way
@@crosstrainingadventure did they respond it? they might be using internet explorer
Barry Was that a Feral Cat running up the bank to your right at 6:12?
+2gud4umenglez well spotted, took me a few runs before i spotted it. looks like a cat but hard to tell with the camera bouncing around.
I'm surprised there isn't anyone asking how to make this bike taller to make it comfortable for those of us over 6'3". Any ideas? I also think that the peg height in relation to the seat height is too squat. Even so I'm considering the DR650 for my next adventure bike based on being air cooled, no electronics and relatively lightweight.
pretty sure we covered that stuff in the DR650 ergonomics vid, stein....
Yep that was the video I watched right after making that comment.
Suzuki's website says this: "The inverted cartridge front forks combine the best features of
conventional and inverted designs to provide the smoothest riding
experience possible," Is this a misprint? or does my 2015 that I just bought have inverted cartridge forks? Thank you for your recommendation for the DR650.
www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/DR650SE/2015/DR650S.aspx#Overview
+Paul Dykstra that is hysterical, paul! the triumph of style over substance from the advertising guys... they aren't inverted, and they certainly aren't cartridge. the rod forks are a decade old design they have only stuck with because they are too lazy to change it, and it saves them a few dollars per bike lol!
+ADVENTURE OZ I just bought the DR. Is that special rear end suspension valve for sale?
1:52 aren't they switched?
Re: (reversed) figure @ 1:53 - I'm not sure I understand why the oil would be contaminated with air in a damping rod fork but not in an (open) cartdridge one!?
PS Thanks for your informative (and funny) videos!
so new dr650 + 1k for suspension + new rubber
you keep increasing the cost of the bike im saving for
+Gummy Bear just trying to stimulate the economy, gummy bear. :) actually if you just put new springs and heavier oil front and rear yourself you are only looking at AUD$400 tops. but a grand will give you the top shelf treatment. and of course the stock rubber is okay for just cruising around, it's just some idiots will insist on trying to ride the DR like a dirt bike lol.
oh ok i just like getting over there more then jumping. so im happy doing 50ks on fire road and 1gear up hills just to get there
+Gummy Bear in that case i'd suggest the budget suspension options first. and if you weigh 85kg or less you may find the rear spring is okay too. the front springs might just be acceptable if you are under 80kg and add longer spacers at the top of the fork to compress that ultra soft part of the spring further...
+ADVENTURE OZ I'm less than 75 kg (stock tank, no panniers); I would say that the front fork is OK, until you start jumping. It will completely collapse even after a small jump.
As regards increasing the preload, I'm not sure you can do much. The fork spring coils appear to be so close to each-another that I'm afraid you may run into coil-bind pretty easily with extra spacers, thus decreasing your wheel travel!? Note: I'm not a suspension specialist, at all; so I may be completely wrong :)
+frogzie not sure where the links are anymore frogzie, but there are details on when you'll start to get coil bind... maybe the DRRIDERS forum?
Love this video. Shame Suzuki blatantly ignores the horrible suspension. Guess that’s why the bike is so cheap.
with time and money, could u not just buy a different leg and clamp setup?
+francisca tjahja yep, as per the budget mods 3 in the vid some guys put forks on from different bikes. but we are tending toward the easier mods and using stock parts where possible.
is it possible I can buy that gas tank off you I would love to if it's for sale
0:43 that's hot
+sunjabib ahladeen a cool machine, that dyno... they said it takes all the guesswork out of getting the suspension and helped them work out some tricky problems too like the KTM 4CS forks
just name your price and if it's reasonable I will send you the money
Must be nice to live in a place Agenda 21 isn't actively trying to crush any offroad fun .
Pretty soon in the states we're going to be able goto work on their paved roads come home shut up and die quietly .
Since ive bought my first dualsport 90% of the places I used to ride are off limits.
I mind as well get a sport touring bike .
+Some dude bummer, things are still pretty good here down under...then of thousands of acres within an hour's drive of any capital city, as long as you have a licence and a registered dirt bike.
Lol the best mod l found for a dr 650 is sell it and buy a bike that has been designed in the current decade
And just pay double the money for double the number of things that can go wrong. 😂 Each to their own. These old dinosaurs definitely aren't for everyone.
@@crosstrainingadventure l spent 5 K on upgrades to my dr 650 and at the end of the day it's still a twenty+ year old design it has been reliable Australia wide but l just don't enjoy riding anymore you can't turn a pigs ear into a silk purse
Each to their own I guess. Personally I think it's better to just spend a max of $1000 to $2000 and do as many of the free and budget mods as possible. Otherwise.... yes. It's trying to turn the DR into something it isn't!
@@crosstrainingadventure screen/seat/pegs/centre stand /30ltr tank/racks/bars and risers /full stainless tune exhaust/front springs/Elka rear shock / 520 chain sprockets/force bash plate/ storm bark busters spent 5 K on the accessories and l think you need them if you do big ks per day longest day on my dr was 1050 ks and thanks to my Sargent seat l could still walk straight at the end of the day it may be a $700 seat but worth every cent the only track l haven't got yet is the canning stock route but it's still on my agenda
PS l have used other bikes for rides tt600/xt600/KTM 690 the dr is still the best all round comfort so far
Real Men ride'm as they find'em!
Ride more, bitch less!
Your life ain't ISDE calibre, now or will EVER be,
so relax and get BETTER without chewing up the landscape!
This bike would be north of $10k if purchased new with all these mods. Kind of crazy for a bike that hasn't changed in 2 decades. Then all said and done it's still a DR.. I think I would rather just buy a KTM or Husky for around the same money and I have a modern bike that doesn't need $5k in mods to make it fun to ride or have it in pieces in my garage to install all this crap.
huh? when i bought a ktm 690 it needed similar mods and expenditure to make it work properly... and the purchase price was almost double that of the DR650.