The Sinking of Novorossiysk - A Battleship's Mysterious End
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Ship mysteries are a dime a dozen. Many ships have vanished over the years, without a trace. Like the entire Proteus class, outside of Langley. Similarly, many ships have had odd sinkings. Maine is the one most people point to, though that's pretty well solved at this point. Mutsu is another option, in this regard.
And then there's the ex-Giulio Cesare. Renamed to Novorossiysk after transfer to the Soviet Union, this ship had a troubled life. Constant refits and visits to the drydock. A maintenance nightmare and an already obsolete ship.
Things can, and generally do, always get worse in the Soviet (or Russian) Navy.
Novorossiysk would succumb to a massive explosion in 1955. The source of this explosion has been argued ever since. The most probable answer, and the generally accepted one, is an old German mine.
However, conspiracy theories abound. Generally featuring Italian frogmen acting like they're in a James Bond film. Those...range from unlikely, to plain silly.
This video will cover them all, regardless.
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Given that WW2 sea mines are still being found, i have no issue with that explanation, including a faulty detonator not self disarming or not having gone off previously. The ship being in even a slightly different position would change the magnetic field affecting the detonator, plus the mine could also have drifted, twisted, etc.
"Itsa mine", as an Italian might say...
Mine. They found 3 more nearby, so safe guess is a magnetic mine.
Perhaps the battleship’s crew had not “degaussed” the ship?
@@SvenTviking Or the degaussing equipment had not been maintained.
Or Large airdroped bomb, they missed. They found one here 75 years after last bombing only while demolishing, since war rebuilt, bridge. As for detonation, even detoriation of part of mine (bomb) could set it off ship or no ship. A coincidence either way, though luck
The basic sea mine theory makes sense. What happened here was unusual, but not unprecedented - potentially "live' munitions from ww2 continue to be an ongoing concern even now.
I don't have any regard for the Italian frogmen theory. It might have been barely plausible around the time that the Giulio Cesare was first handed over, as there was a lot of strong feeling at the time. But, over 10 years later, when the ship was just one bad day away from sinking without outside help? I don't see it.
I also note that both the ship's overall condition and maintenance thereof would have been .... "extremely questionable" . These were undoubtedly factors when the damage was sustained and in ensuing attempts at damage control.
Maintenance was a serious issue with all soviet equipment. When you have as patch built a navy as Russia it gets even worse. The Italians do make pretty ships though.
Better than the French floating brothels for sure. th-cam.com/video/9ygXLnRAm-A/w-d-xo.html
I always appreciate you covering warships like this one, especially because of the amount of lives lost during her eventual foundering. Funny enough, I was hypothesizing aloud when you mentioned the damage on the hull that it may have been done by a derelict sea mine. It is very unusual that one of those types of mines would still have the capability to detonate on its own after almost a decade of being left alone. The internal mechanisms were probably rusted/neglected to the point of being near inert, but evidently, something managed to set it off.
I never realized this ship had such a stink of conspiracy theory surrounding it. While I absolutely enjoy a good mystery, I grow increasingly nauseous when I encounter people who just like to mouth breath theories about subjects they don’t understand. The lives lost on this Battleship couldn’t care less about what some internet no body thinks got them killed…
Sorry to hop on a soap box for a bit there, I’m done. As a last note, I was surprised that this incident was what derailed Admiral Kuznetzov’s career! While he would, as you mentioned, be reinstated, I’m sure his prestige never fully recovered.
Another awesome vid!!
Not that surprising that an old mine would still be dangerous. It's 2024, they're still areas in Europe that are off limits because of munitions and mines from WW1, which ended over 100 years ago as of now. Being old just makes old ordinance like that more dangerous and unstable, not less.
Fair point. Reminds me of the ‘Herman’ bomb that was found in a town in England which still had the same destructive power it held almost a century ago.
Having a `Comedy Carrier` named after an Admiral is truly wonderful. Mine!
If I may…
Italy was forbidden to possess ‘incursori’ after IIWW as far as 1952, and thereafter they were devoted to port demining until 1956. Therefore it is highly improbabile that they had technical support (submarine carrying the ‘maiali’ with which they hit Valiant and Queen Elizabeth at Alexandria) by 1955. Second Point, all italians were captured at Alexandria as their only escape plan was via land, while they were capable of escaping after their actions at Gibraltar as there they possessed a base in a cargo ship interned at Algeciras, a few miles away. None of these possibilities were available at Sebastopol, and therefore it is improbable that a newly rebuilt group would risk a military action thousands of mines away from homeland. Cheers
Obviously a sailor dropped a cigarette.
As a post blast bomb investigator, your assessment is correct.
Do you have any books on the subject of post blast investigation you would recommend?
The Russians just have the worst luck with their battleships... The conspiracy theories were kind of fun to listen to, though, given how salty the Soviets were about losing the battleship they had been trying to keep while certain Italians took advantage of the entire thing.
Worst luck in general when it comes to the Navy. A great example to explore is the voyage of the second Pacific squadron, search "voyage of the damned". Another is how US submariners used to call Russian sonar Helen Keller sonar from how they would constantly crash into everything.
Great video! After my video on the subject, I found the mine theory to be the most likely cause. However, the Italian frogmen theory is an interesting rabbit hole...
Tragic. Thanks for the story, Skynea. Take care, fair winds
This is an amazing salvage for the time.
She is a good looking ship tho.
Black and white photos do wonders to hide the squalor though. Ships have a habit of looking great from afar.
@@JRyan-lu5im I really meant her lines
Awesome history lesson.The Italians always had beautiful ships.Its
What a great story! Why haven't i ever heard this before?
"Admiral Kunetzov"? Isn't that the name of the Russian carrier that is always breaking down?
Yes. Obviously, the guy was cursed.
Not cursed so bad as Admiral Hood.
@@mikearmstrong8483 Good point!
Oh yea. Leftover Magnetic mine at it's best. 🙂 The Italians were happy to get rid of that garbage.
I’m going with the mine theory it. Only one to me that is even slightly plausible
I think we need. To. Get myth busters involved to solve it
Beautiful ship!
cool video....this is off topic but florida has the worst weather than any place i ever been....hot/humid, i never been in desert heat like az.......what place have you guys been where you were like i could never live here?
Gino Birindelli sends his regards
Well the brits sinking it theory is outlandish what would their motives be..
And when it comes to the Italians frogmenIt wouldn't just been too well defended There would have been anti-submarine nets patrolling destroyers not to mention they would have to have some pretty big Balls the pull of a stump like that
The battleship that ran like an Italian car! I feel sorry for the Russians working on it.
I really enjoy your videos!
So there were 600 some corpses in the ship when scrapping began? 🤢
Its like then the US had to re float the battleships sunk at pearl harbor they had been sitting in warm salt water for months and filled with their crew who died inside. Divers had to go inside and see all that then wash all the ships out when they got brought above water again
@@tomyorke3412that had be a horrific job to do.
And I bet those in the blast zone were never found
TY 🙏🙏
"Revenge is a Dish best served Cold!"...WHATEVER happened, Italy had the last laugh here....
it was first the Italian battleship Giulio Cesare but after the war when it was given to Russia it was given the Russian name it had when it sank
How deep was her mooring where she capsized?
It was the Galapagos turtles. Using their shells to magnetize themselves to the hull before shouting "To Valhalla!!" then detonating themselves.
There are problems with that theory also.
1) Galapagos tortoises have such long lifespans that they would be perfectly content to just wait, knowing they would outlast the ship (and the Soviet Union) anyway.
2) Being tortoises, they don't swim. I could see them possibly walking across the bottom of the Black Sea with rebreather gear, but not oceans. This means an Ecuadorian ship had to have transported them. Now you have yet another government trying to keep the facts secret, something that governments often are not particularly good at.
3) Galapagos tortoises always undergo degaussing to protect themselves from lightning strikes and and limpet mines, so I find it hard to believe they could suddenly magnetized their shells.
4) They're Hispanic. Why would they yell "To Valhalla"?
Granted, I don't know the Hispanic equivalent of Valhalla (if there is one), so I can't be sure on that point.
Personally... in cases like this... I'm a realist.
Look at the complete picture... look at the facts... and the evidence.
No 'what ifs'... no 'but it could have been'... type answers.
An Occam's razor type approach... suggests an old German mine caused the damage.
The rest is all supposition and conjecture... laced with the human need for drama.
You have to think like a Russian at the time. The ship had been approved by the state. The harbor had been approved by the state. The sweep had been authenticated as complete by the state. The state was perfect. Therefore saboteurs blew it up!
Believing the Soviets? Now THAT's a stretch.
Given the resources she used up for maintenance and rebuilds Italy (and any other cold war oponent of the USSR) had no interest in liberating the Red Navy of this burden.
Sorry, i meant: it voz Trotzkites.
Even this days the find sill mins from WW2 that a oprational.
Time traveling stormshadow missile
the SU handed back the HMS Royal Sovereign to the RN in 1949 and look it up how bad it was treated and not maintained by the SU
Imagine a battleship sized neglected fiat
I’m not Italian but I think the right pronunciation is “wholio” not “julio”.
Fix It Again Tony!
*Cue Terrible Italian version of "The Bond Theme"*
The Ukrainian resistance was pretty strong, even then. Maybe they knew about the German mine, and the fact that the ship was anchored over it. One frogman with a few pounds of TNT could have mined the mine, and KA-BOOM!!
You forgot to mention the Russian said it was aliens.....
A Bond plot requires a supervillain with an outlandish plan to get One. Million. Dollars. or to take over da whirled, which ever is most convenient.
Reminds me of the story about the Russian peasants that were gifted a new Ferrari. They used it to plow their fields.
Soviet's took any junk they could 😂. They literally got the craps when everything was done. Didn't stop them from trying to get them ok enough for actual battle, which really never happened with any of their acquisitions. They just wanted to be able to sit at the big table with the USA and the UK but we do far behind with technology they were fighting a losing battle. They will never be able to catch up even today. Russia is still a joke militarily
Dumb take
The USSR does not exist anymore.The cold war is over. It's not 1950. Open your eyes to the world we live in now. To do that you will have to bury your hate nastiness and r*c*sm.
There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that the sinking was mysterious. The fact that the Russians discovered more mines that were still capable of exploding within fifty meters of the ship proves this. You have to remember a few things here, one a prewar ship rarely had full protection against underwater explosions, and two the Russians are just plain incompetent when it comes to maintaining ships. Three, the Russian sailors were not trained in damage control. The sinking of the cruiser Moskova by the Ukrainians showed that the Russian navy hasn't changed since 1955! That a modern warship was unable to defend itself and then control the damage speaks volumes about the Russian Navy!
Typical case of immeasurable Russian incompetence and disregard for the safety of their countrymen and women, unbelievable and totally irresponsible
Probably it was the Soviets themselfs to sink that money pit of a nuissance ship😅😅😅
Maybe the Russians should just stick to rowboats - they don’t have much luck with larger ships. 😂
Looks like frogmen snuck in Italians didn't want anyone to have their ship
Insurance fraud?
Can we say, "CIA"!
Thanks Obama.
HMS Royal Oak suck by U47 at Scapa Flow in 1939 undetected. 1943 KMS Tirpitz sunk by X craft, crews detected but explosives were not! Italian Frog men sink the Novorossiysk, well they had 8 years to refining the efforts of the 1943 attacks. Magnetic mine, most likely but Frog men can't be ruled out! There's also the St Nazaire raid in 1942, operation Chariot, HMS Campbelltown was undetected and in plain sight was used to ram into the dry dock with a huge delay charge.
First, Italy was forbidden to have frogmen for years after the war. Italy was recovering from devastation only by the good graces of the USA, so it's highly unlikely that the Italian government would try to support a surreptitious (and expensive) program to keep an underwater assault team active. And how would they be "honing their skills" in peacetime above what they accomplished during the war?
Second, Campbelltown hardly went unnoticed; she was shot at very thoroughly on the way in to ramming the dock gate.
This reminds me of the various Ukraine war spam channels from the beginning of the war when hundreds of Russian “Battleships” were sunk, and every Russian floating thingie was called “battleship”
Say what you want, but the Italians didn’t want to give up their war time fleet. After the war the allies gave away most of the Italian fleet. Sea mines batteries were long out of power. I believe the Italians sent frogmen to sink her.