Using 正 as a tally mark reminds me of running for class president during primary school back in China. My teacher used 正 for counting votes. As a kid i would think about other Chinese glyphs for this work, like any glyph with five strokes would work. But later on I found 正 to be the most elegant option, for its order of strokes is horizontal line - vertical line - horizontal - vertical - horizontal.
Imagine I'm showing you a 132 ...because I really struggle isolating my ring finger like that. I can sort of do every combination by physically blocking the fingers from going up using the rest of my hand, but it's quite uncomfortable.
I independently invented the system at 3:36, except I continue with another diagonal stroke, then put dots inside each of the 4 empty triangles formed, making it useful up to 10. Somewhat similar to that forestry one you mentioned, except much easier to cram close together: every grouping is always completely self-enclosed. In addition, if I happen to have a situation where I'm able to add tens of tallies at a time, I have a shorthand for a ten tally: a square with a single dot in the center. If I want an even shorter shorthand for multiple tens, I contain the number, minus its trailing zero, inside a square/squarish box, keeping its digits separate from other such figures and making it clear its also an additive part of the other surrounding tally marks.
Even better option to count wasps is to count how many sting marks they left on you, since you don't have to engage with the objects themselves but rather their imprint on some medium (your body)
@@svennoren9047 wasps can sting multiple times but as far as I know they don't regenerate their venom like a cooldown ability, so you do need to exclude the uninflamed stings. But I don't actually know how long it takes for a wasp to get another dose of venom.
I met someone from China who used 五 (the number 5) as a tally mark. It was techincally writing it incorrectly as 五 is four strokes but he would treat the third stroke as two separate strokes and have a line of 5s that all meant five. I played with making seven segment 5s (which use 5 of the 7 segments) but it just didn't stick with me.
Oh that's cool. For context, the third stroke is the horizontal line in the middle, which then extends into the vertical line in the lower right. So it already looks like two different lines anyway.
You didn't say why tallies look like they do. Farmers collected stalks of wheat by hand and took a stalk of wheat to tie bundles together at intervals.
I'm from Spain myself and I've played many card games before. But I have to say, I have never in my life seen that square tally mark system. Not as a tally at least, everyone I've ever seen count with tally marks would use the common method used in the US
It’s funny how Spaniards refuse to use English words under any circumstance, but will copy the Germanic/anglosaxon tally system without even thinking about it
I feel like the tallies wouldn't work with the hornets. After the ordeal there is /no/ way you're gonna know which ones you haven't countered already. So the tallies would be useless. Also, ordered groupings vs disordered individual tallies distorts the effect. You'd be able to count individual tallies using multiplication if you wrote them down ordered, just as you would not be able to do it with grouped tallies if they weren't in a proper grid. The real reason to group tallies is because we can count up to 4 things at a glance, but have to start individually counting at 5. It's called subitizing.
The latter two tally seems better than the first one. When I use it, the four identical vertical lines make it slower to read and offer more opportunities for mistakes. It would be harder to notice, too.
I count stacked goods at work (sheets of particle board/plywood/mdf) and I count them by marking their edges thus: I mark a dot '.' on each of 1-4 and 6-9, a stroke '--' on each 5, and a plus '+' for 10, two '++' for 20, etc.; very useful for counts between 1 and 50 . . -- . . . . ++ . . . . -- . . . . + . . . . -- . . . . 27
Wait the video is only 10 days old. It feels like a random 3 year old video from a variety youtuber and it feels like i must have seen a video about this topic atleast once before
I actually use pen-and-paper tallies in my job. I scorekeep for hockey, and part of my job is to count shots and goals per team per period. Using a digital tally doesn’t work as well because I want to be able to separate shots by period and by team - and be able to go back and visually see the numbers. I divide my paper into 2 columns (one for each team) and three rows (one for each period). To signal that a shot went in, I put a dot under the tally mark when I count the shot. This system lets me easily figure out “5, 10, 13 shots… 2 goals… 11 saves,” for each goalie for each period. Edit: math 😅
You left out the baseball umpire's tally device, which clicks off balls and strikes. Long story short, the count is kept for every batter and cleared when the next batter starts. It counts two things, balls up to 4 and strikes up to 3. Fancy ones also keep score.
ive always tallied using five crossed out Is instead of four. i understood it as "i got five of the things, so im gonna cross them out to know im done with this section", it never occurred to me to count the cross out line as another "object". it also just feels and looks more pleasing to me to have a group of five represented that way
It is possible* to count up to 1,023 on just your two hands (and up to 4,095 if you have six fingers on each hand) using binary. * This is possible, yes, but not practical for most people.
Roman numerals used to be random symbols, but then evolved to look more like letters, like the numeral for 500 (D) came from the roman numeral for 1000 (at the time it was just a circle with a stick through it) so the numeral for 500 was simply half of the circle, turning into a D.
do characters in chinese take different pronunciations at times? does that make it difficult to read names? is 正 in your name supposed to mean something or was it just picked for the sound of it? the idea of having a number in your name is pretty cool
@@calengo454 no, 正 is not the word for the number 5 😂 it’s a character with a completely different meaning that is just sometimes used to tally things up because of how it is written.
my teacher in middle school gave me an ink stamp with 正 on it, had no idea it meant "correct" untuk watching this video but I guess I can mark peoples homework correct in Chinese now 🤣
@@calengo454 Chinese characters in Mandarin have only one pronunciation. In languages that borrowed the hanzi, they can have different pronunciations: for example in Japanese the characters have a "kun" (japanese, 1+syllables) and "on" (chinese transcription, one syllable) reading, and they can take many more different pronunciations in words or names. For example, in Japanese the tally character 正 has two kunyomi (tada, masa) and two onyomi (sei, shou). In names it can be pronounced "oo", "kuni", "ma", "masashi", "tadashi", or many other ways. You just have to know which reading to use for a name, often there is no certain way to tell just from reading it on paper. People often introduce themselves by saying their name and the characters it's written with (e.g. "I'm Honda Tadashi, 'Tadashi' written with the character for 'correct'"). I can't think of any numbers appearing in Chinese names, but there are some Japanese names that have number one in them like 一ノ瀬 (Ichinose, it's a surname though). East Asian given names are usually chosen for their meaning unlike most Western names.
@@zyanai Wrong. Many chinese characters have different pronunciations. 长 has zhǎng and cháng, 行 xíng háng, 为 wèi wéi, 着 zhe zháo zhuó zhāo. And there are more.
I think, at least in the British Isles, there have been oral forms of tally which also correlated with finger positions. Used for livestock. Someone will know.
@@masuterukasu The reason you can fit it in specifically, is that while the stick as a perfect diagonal at 45° might be 1 long, each of the sides are only 1 ÷ sqrt(2) long, so shorter than 1. Again, only accurate for a perfect 45° angled diagonal stick, relative to the other sticks
I once actually invented my own tally system First, you make three vertical lines and then you cross them with another three vertical lines to form a grid of sorts, meaning that you get to count up to 6 things per tally I created it because I watched a video about base 6 counting some time before then and i was just sort of bored I've also never used it, because i personally do not count in base 6 Why did I make it
My whole life I thought the tally mark (didn’t even know it was called that) had 5 vertical lines crossed by another one, I don’t know if pop culture and media lied to me or I just didn’t notice but either way I’m kind of frustrated because having 4 vertical lines crossed by the fifth one makes more sense and I consider myself an observant and analytical person, and finding this out just now makes me disappointed in myself
A perhaps interesting addition to this is the old English yan-tan-tethera counting system where (frequently) shepherds would count to 20 then make a mark on the ground or move their hand on their crook. It's thought this might be the origin of the nursery rhyme "hickory, dickery, dock" as 8, 9, 10 would be "hovera, dovera, dick" in some areas.
This is somewhat incorrect. Roman numerals are most likely based on a tally system. It was later on when the letter 'I' was equated with the Roman number 1.
The V = 5 is from Venus occultism. Venus passes in between (occults) the Earth and Sun 5 times every 8 years. L = 50 because L is ten times V (10 * 5). L represents Saturn (El) the mythological husband of Venus (his "Ev"). Mythologically, the Sun is their son. The sacred number of the Sun is 7 😮 (son ----> Sun)
I mean, even if you are just trying to survive, as a person living back then, there wasn’t much to do on your “free time”. Like I’m thinking of disabled people, who couldn’t do any sort of hunting, gathering, building, kind of jobs, like I bet there were times were nothing much happened and they had food shelter and basic needs covered
Using lying, i can count up to 8 billion
Wow, You’re so talented
Pfft, I can count up to a hundred thousand billion morbillions.
The only limiter would be time and the insanity you would face after counting to 7,986,526,928 and then losing your place and having to start over
real
The question is, why can’t you do the same while standing or sitting?
Using 正 as a tally mark reminds me of running for class president during primary school back in China. My teacher used 正 for counting votes. As a kid i would think about other Chinese glyphs for this work, like any glyph with five strokes would work. But later on I found 正 to be the most elegant option, for its order of strokes is horizontal line - vertical line - horizontal - vertical - horizontal.
I was such an insufferable brat as a kid that I would probably have used 四 for counting just to mess with people's brains.
@@Kouma013 or worse, count in base 4 using 六 lol
@@BirdieRumia or 五
@@Emile.gorgonZoladang lol
Japan use the same tally mark known as 正の字, I wonder its origin, or is it just China and Japan both invented it in parallel
For counting, I like to use finger binary. Using two hands you can count up to 1023.
What's 132 in finger binary
0001000110@@katakana1
@@katakana1 oops
@@katakana1 I see what you did there
ps:
00100 00100
Imagine I'm showing you a 132
...because I really struggle isolating my ring finger like that. I can sort of do every combination by physically blocking the fingers from going up using the rest of my hand, but it's quite uncomfortable.
If I got stung by hundreds of hornets, I'd be dead.
Checkmate, atheists.
I independently invented the system at 3:36, except I continue with another diagonal stroke, then put dots inside each of the 4 empty triangles formed, making it useful up to 10. Somewhat similar to that forestry one you mentioned, except much easier to cram close together: every grouping is always completely self-enclosed. In addition, if I happen to have a situation where I'm able to add tens of tallies at a time, I have a shorthand for a ten tally: a square with a single dot in the center. If I want an even shorter shorthand for multiple tens, I contain the number, minus its trailing zero, inside a square/squarish box, keeping its digits separate from other such figures and making it clear its also an additive part of the other surrounding tally marks.
Nice, I'm gonna use this!
But I don't get why they say that it's the most common tally in Latin America,I'm Latin American and have never seen that sort of tally.
@@FaPsAnimates2 it's very common here in brazil
I'm happy you mentioned the 10-count boxes as this is what I use and I've never seen anyone else do it besides the one who showed it to me
tally hall is so ingrained in my brain that whenever I see "tally" all I think about is TALLY HALL!! TALLY HALL!!
We're in the mini mall!!
I immediately think of Harry Belafonte singing "Come Mr tallyman, tally me bananas".
working the carnival!
SAME???
Tally hall fans… in the wild…
I like using a 5 point star as tallymarks
What line do you start with?
@@metawarp7446 bottom left to the top point.
@@dogindagrass thanks for responce :)
@@dogindagrass correct
Even better option to count wasps is to count how many sting marks they left on you, since you don't have to engage with the objects themselves but rather their imprint on some medium (your body)
An elegant solution, since a wasp can only sting once.
@@svennoren9047 wasps can sting multiple times but as far as I know they don't regenerate their venom like a cooldown ability, so you do need to exclude the uninflamed stings. But I don't actually know how long it takes for a wasp to get another dose of venom.
I met someone from China who used 五 (the number 5) as a tally mark. It was techincally writing it incorrectly as 五 is four strokes but he would treat the third stroke as two separate strokes and have a line of 5s that all meant five. I played with making seven segment 5s (which use 5 of the 7 segments) but it just didn't stick with me.
Oh that's cool. For context, the third stroke is the horizontal line in the middle, which then extends into the vertical line in the lower right. So it already looks like two different lines anyway.
That’s evil
great video can’t wait for the sequel Different Ways To Hall
getoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyhead
@@Yvelluap you're walking in the woods.
there's no one around and your phone is dead.
out of the corner of your eye you spot them;
*_tally hall._*
"Your new job is counting hornets."
Me, who's deathly allergic to hornets: My WHAT?
You didn't say why tallies look like they do. Farmers collected stalks of wheat by hand and took a stalk of wheat to tie bundles together at intervals.
I'm from Spain myself and I've played many card games before. But I have to say, I have never in my life seen that square tally mark system. Not as a tally at least, everyone I've ever seen count with tally marks would use the common method used in the US
In Chile at least we use the square tally mark.
@@mjbalboIn Brazil as well
We use it in Argentina. The match variant as well.
It’s funny how Spaniards refuse to use English words under any circumstance, but will copy the Germanic/anglosaxon tally system without even thinking about it
I’ve seen it in France but only by old people
I feel like the tallies wouldn't work with the hornets. After the ordeal there is /no/ way you're gonna know which ones you haven't countered already. So the tallies would be useless.
Also, ordered groupings vs disordered individual tallies distorts the effect. You'd be able to count individual tallies using multiplication if you wrote them down ordered, just as you would not be able to do it with grouped tallies if they weren't in a proper grid.
The real reason to group tallies is because we can count up to 4 things at a glance, but have to start individually counting at 5. It's called subitizing.
_italicised_
_italicization_ is done with _ underscores, not slashes
@@aeaeeaoiaueaY'know the slashes were intentional, I didn't mean to italicize.
@@dojelnotmyrealname4018 nvm
The latter two tally seems better than the first one. When I use it, the four identical vertical lines make it slower to read and offer more opportunities for mistakes. It would be harder to notice, too.
In Portugal we use WHAT?!
Ain't no way, I've NEVER seen that being done here in my life xD it's always ||||/
I count stacked goods at work (sheets of particle board/plywood/mdf) and I count them by marking their edges thus: I mark a dot '.' on each of 1-4 and 6-9, a stroke '--' on each 5, and a plus '+' for 10, two '++' for 20, etc.; very useful for counts between 1 and 50
.
.
--
.
.
.
.
++
.
.
.
.
--
.
.
.
.
+
.
.
.
.
--
.
.
.
.
27
Wait the video is only 10 days old. It feels like a random 3 year old video from a variety youtuber and it feels like i must have seen a video about this topic atleast once before
I actually use pen-and-paper tallies in my job. I scorekeep for hockey, and part of my job is to count shots and goals per team per period. Using a digital tally doesn’t work as well because I want to be able to separate shots by period and by team - and be able to go back and visually see the numbers. I divide my paper into 2 columns (one for each team) and three rows (one for each period). To signal that a shot went in, I put a dot under the tally mark when I count the shot. This system lets me easily figure out “5, 10, 13 shots… 2 goals… 11 saves,” for each goalie for each period.
Edit: math 😅
I use to work an inventory job that was a lot of counting and 正 tallys are objectively the best.
Also, tally hall.
back in my days, 正 is used to tally many different things, and I can confirm most of what is said about for the Chinese counting method is indeed 「正」
The chinese tally looks like what happens if you put 2 portals in eachother
What do you mean by that
@@case_sensitive from the game portal?
@@VictoriaWolczynska I don't really see it. And I've played both games
正
I dont rlly see it tho 🤔 can u elaborate?
You left out the baseball umpire's tally device, which clicks off balls and strikes. Long story short, the count is kept for every batter and cleared when the next batter starts. It counts two things, balls up to 4 and strikes up to 3.
Fancy ones also keep score.
4:37 funnily enough, in Finnish the five-stroke tally shown in 0:49 for example is called as "logger's tally".
I'd think the bigger problem would be that all the wasps moved, so you'd be recounting them anyway.
ive always tallied using five crossed out Is instead of four. i understood it as "i got five of the things, so im gonna cross them out to know im done with this section", it never occurred to me to count the cross out line as another "object". it also just feels and looks more pleasing to me to have a group of five represented that way
It is possible* to count up to 1,023 on just your two hands (and up to 4,095 if you have six fingers on each hand) using binary.
* This is possible, yes, but not practical for most people.
The square with the line through it seems very efficient.
I count this as one good video
Roman numerals used to be random symbols, but then evolved to look more like letters, like the numeral for 500 (D) came from the roman numeral for 1000 (at the time it was just a circle with a stick through it) so the numeral for 500 was simply half of the circle, turning into a D.
TRUCO MENTIONED 🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷
The opening felt like a GCSE question, instantly felt the panic haha
Now please make a video that shows how you tally count the wasps in the nest shown at 0:19, with wasps swooshing in and out all the time!
The problem with the physical box method is if you want to count objects that aren't all the same size it won't work well
I like to Tally in the Hall
i can see you're in the minimall
Oooooh I thought the title was “The different ways to italy”. This makes a lot more sense
You’ve earned a subscriber.
Wasn't the tally from the DRC not just a period tracker?
It is interesting that most of the simple tally methods count to 5
Lol, my Chinese name has 正 in it
do characters in chinese take different pronunciations at times? does that make it difficult to read names? is 正 in your name supposed to mean something or was it just picked for the sound of it? the idea of having a number in your name is pretty cool
@@calengo454 no, 正 is not the word for the number 5 😂 it’s a character with a completely different meaning that is just sometimes used to tally things up because of how it is written.
my teacher in middle school gave me an ink stamp with 正 on it, had no idea it meant "correct" untuk watching this video but I guess I can mark peoples homework correct in Chinese now 🤣
@@calengo454 Chinese characters in Mandarin have only one pronunciation. In languages that borrowed the hanzi, they can have different pronunciations: for example in Japanese the characters have a "kun" (japanese, 1+syllables) and "on" (chinese transcription, one syllable) reading, and they can take many more different pronunciations in words or names.
For example, in Japanese the tally character 正 has two kunyomi (tada, masa) and two onyomi (sei, shou). In names it can be pronounced "oo", "kuni", "ma", "masashi", "tadashi", or many other ways. You just have to know which reading to use for a name, often there is no certain way to tell just from reading it on paper. People often introduce themselves by saying their name and the characters it's written with (e.g. "I'm Honda Tadashi, 'Tadashi' written with the character for 'correct'").
I can't think of any numbers appearing in Chinese names, but there are some Japanese names that have number one in them like 一ノ瀬 (Ichinose, it's a surname though). East Asian given names are usually chosen for their meaning unlike most Western names.
@@zyanai Wrong. Many chinese characters have different pronunciations. 长 has zhǎng and cháng, 行 xíng háng, 为 wèi wéi, 着 zhe zháo zhuó zhāo. And there are more.
I think, at least in the British Isles, there have been oral forms of tally which also correlated with finger positions. Used for livestock. Someone will know.
The box tally also uses two different lengths. the square root of 2 isn't 1, you know?
but it's bigger than 1, so you can fit it in.
@@masuterukasu The reason you can fit it in specifically, is that while the stick as a perfect diagonal at 45° might be 1 long, each of the sides are only 1 ÷ sqrt(2) long, so shorter than 1. Again, only accurate for a perfect 45° angled diagonal stick, relative to the other sticks
I once actually invented my own tally system
First, you make three vertical lines and then you cross them with another three vertical lines to form a grid of sorts, meaning that you get to count up to 6 things per tally
I created it because I watched a video about base 6 counting some time before then and i was just sort of bored
I've also never used it, because i personally do not count in base 6
Why did I make it
3:30 Very very very....very correct
TALLY LIKE TALLY HALL OMG NO WAY WTF OMG OMG
GUYS I TS A TALLY LHALL REFERENCE LIKE THE HIT BAMD STARTE DI N ANN ARBOR MICHIGNA IN 2002 GUYS!!1! /POS
I allways count with tally sticks because its consistent and complete (Pressberger arithmetic)
okay, but why is the French/Portugese/Spanish tally different tho ??
Clocks use the Roman numeral IIII for 4.
Peak Content
something something TALLY HALL REFERENCE❗❗🙀🙀 something something
i prefer the hall method to tally
indeed, the hall method is the best
How do you know which hornet you've already counted tho?
Using Apple Vision Pro
My favorite by far is the forestry tally
My whole life I thought the tally mark (didn’t even know it was called that) had 5 vertical lines crossed by another one, I don’t know if pop culture and media lied to me or I just didn’t notice but either way I’m kind of frustrated because having 4 vertical lines crossed by the fifth one makes more sense and I consider myself an observant and analytical person, and finding this out just now makes me disappointed in myself
can i tally in a hall
She criticizes me for being egocentric
only in a minimall.
@@accountpc4311 You practice your mannerisms into the wall
@@harshhorde3649working the carnival
@@Louis14022 if this mirror were clearer i'd be standing so tall
Sorry, it will only let me subscribe once :(
If I subscribe with my 2nd account will I get 2x the videos?
give us the different ways to hall
Tally hall reference?
A perhaps interesting addition to this is the old English yan-tan-tethera counting system where (frequently) shepherds would count to 20 then make a mark on the ground or move their hand on their crook. It's thought this might be the origin of the nursery rhyme "hickory, dickery, dock" as 8, 9, 10 would be "hovera, dovera, dick" in some areas.
I subscribed
Life hack: To keep hornets away, plant some peppermint and lavender. 😊
Be honest. You saw 正 on illustrations that no child should see.
That's how I first learned about that tally system
As French, I've never seen this form of tally.
Hall??????????????
@@aarna707 theres more where this came from :3
In portugal the square one isn't used, we uso ||||/
So I pressed the subscribe button 20 times but it seems the tally did not increase 😂
he just wants subs
You sound a bit like Chills
... Hall.
But can you melt the hornets with citric acid?
No, but it can neutralise their sting.
Thanks!
the german one:💀💀💀
How on earth are you going to count hornets??
Why doesn't he just count the sting marks?
This is somewhat incorrect. Roman numerals are most likely based on a tally system. It was later on when the letter 'I' was equated with the Roman number 1.
Maybe the true origin of their country's name. I tally -----> Italy
The V = 5 is from Venus occultism. Venus passes in between (occults) the Earth and Sun 5 times every 8 years.
L = 50 because L is ten times V (10 * 5). L represents Saturn (El) the mythological husband of Venus (his "Ev").
Mythologically, the Sun is their son. The sacred number of the Sun is 7 😮 (son ----> Sun)
I never took that job.
Only 200 times happier?
I don’t get why they don’t use 五 instead, it means 5 and it also had 5 lines.
because 五 is properly written in 4 strokes instead of 5. 五 has 4 strokes: 1) 一 2) l 3)𠃍4) 一
tally hall
looking for a cavern, a place where she can stay
Hey i've seen that symbol before. no need to ask, you already know the answer
Tally hall reference?????????
hall
Yes
正
一
｜
一
｜
一
my mind just exploded
from wikipedia
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%E6%AD%A3-order.gif#/media/File:%E6%AD%A3-order.gif
It’s crazy that they think people trying to survive would need to have prime numbers for any reason
I mean, even if you are just trying to survive, as a person living back then, there wasn’t much to do on your “free time”. Like I’m thinking of disabled people, who couldn’t do any sort of hunting, gathering, building, kind of jobs, like I bet there were times were nothing much happened and they had food shelter and basic needs covered
I thought for sure there'd be more
Who/what t.f. is Tally Hall?!
band formed in ann arbor michigan, very cool band that makes a lot of fabloo/wonky rock music
they all wear different color ties btw
i thought the kanji was fucking loss. i hate it here
sqrt 2 =1 type shi
🎉
if you don't use 正 you're wrong
正 is literally correct, literally
Chinese, Japanese, All that is the Same...
I’ve been searching for this comment
no, you can say ̅| ̅| ̅|̅|̅
tally hall
you certefiedly banana all de time
tally hall
tally hal