Baji Kungfu vs MMA - Bajiquan Tested (Zhan Qianxian vs Chen Yufei)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ต.ค. 2021
- We have Taiwanese awesome mixed martial arts journeyman Chen Yu Fei (陳宇飛) testing the effectiveness of Ba Ji Quan (八極拳) by going to a Taiwanese Baji place called 六藝武學 (Lucal Six Arts). Let's see how this form of Baji performs against Yufei's MMA blend. The Baji coach is Zhan Qian Xian (詹前賢). Leave your comments below and please subscribe to @Fly-dick-face !
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Here's Chen Yu Fei's channel: th-cam.com/channels/hprHjvFdWP_cD2nOqo8cdA.html Please go follow my Taiwanese brethren and tell him you came from Fight Commentary Breakdowns.
Here's Baji guy's channel: th-cam.com/channels/UctBPCAGa6m5jqBuUMX4fQ.html
For Chinese speakers, here's the interview with Yufei. 说中文的朋友，陈宇飞采访在这里：th-cam.com/video/ZbNq-dsLYI0/w-d-xo.html
That’s my shixiong hehe. Baji(at least the variation master Tang Jiajun teaches) is very centerline focused, probably why it seems like Xingyi and Wingchun
Personally i think martial arts that works will be visually similar because that's just how our body mechanics works, just like most of the weapon arts like spear and swords were almost similar body mechanics wise in every culture
Generally, yes, the basic would be very similar. Yet, from my experience teaching and training many different styles of weapon martial arts, they often agree on almost the same fundamentals while coming to different conclusions (techniques, strategy etc). Moreover, the difference in weapon design also makes some technique unusable for one weapon while favoured in the other. Even spear, the universal weapon throughout cultures, still has vastly different designs and techniques in different culture. Things you were taught to always do in one style is discouraged in another, though they are both effective separately.
We’ll sort of, but if you really pay attention you’ll see plenty of differences.
Of course, the difference would be in concept and bigger forms when doing kata or solo practice
But in practice, all martial arts that works will be similar, only little difference here and there
Agreed with a little bit of disagreement.
There is definitely a sharing of techniques across different martial arts. One good example is Judo's Ippon Seoinage, Wrestling's Shoulder Throw and the shoulder throw of Shuai Jiao and Sanda. They all are very similar, however the execution is different. The Judo version uses the opponent's force and leverage. The Wrestling version uses angles and leverage. I'm not so sure, but it looks like the Shuai Jiao version uses an explosive method of throwing.
Those technical differences in execution are what separate the martial arts. It's surely the same move, but there are different ways of doing it across various martial arts
Wing Chun works and it doesn't look like this at all. But that is because Wing Chun taps into a different level of body mechanics mastery, at this conventional level yeah they will have a lot of similarities.
Very impressed by the baji guy. I think one thing he could take from modern martial arts is to keep his chin down, but overall he's really a great ambassador for his style. I'd love to see him fight Qi La La in an MMA format that allowed elbows, knees, shoulder strikes, etc. - maybe in the King of Dragons tournaments or something.
Bajiquan without elbow attack is like seeing Muay Thai without knee attack, at that point you might as well just call it kickboxing.
Man, this ba ji quan guy did very well! I loved this, a pity we didn't get to see ba ji's famous elbows and knees in action. Maybe some other time with pads.
We saw some biceps, the softer side of the elbow. Quite ba ji.
@@StronglikeLion3 definitely!
@PJ Rivera so? Is your point to ignore this style of Kung fu now? And how does that make sense? Shouldn't we just include Baji to the list of accepted martial arts in the worldview of English speakers?
@PJ Rivera Almost every martial arts use knees and elbows. Although Muay Thai and MMA knee and elbow strikes use a different method to generate force compare to Bajiquan, would be interesting to see Bajiquan elbow strike sometime.
@@peterwang5660 Why are you react so strongly?
Bajiquan has been proven to be working from time to time despite having only 300 or less years of history
Li Shuwen (1864-1934) once reportedly saying, “I do not know how it feels to hit a man twice.” The stories say he killed many people in these matches, often with just one strike. They also say he was poisoned by the family of a man he killed in such a match.
But those are just stories. What makes the art more credible to me is the fact that the closest personal bodyguards of Sun Yat-sen and Mao Tse-tung were Li Shuwen's Bajiquan students, and the man hired to train Chiang Kai-shek's bodyguards in unarmed combat was a Li Shuwen student as well.
Super interesting! Thanks for giving me great leads to research!
@@FightCommentary you're welcome!
@@FightCommentary oh and for your information Huo Diange who was the bodyguard to Henry Puyi (China's last emperor) was a Li Shuwen student too.
Li Shuwen (Li Syo Bun in Manga Version) said"dont affraid to warrior who knew many styles,but to affraid to warrior who explore one style seriously".
That literally doesn't matter because MMA is western and china is china. If they fought western people then it could be proven effective. Cuz china vs china is literally could be baji vs fake styles not baji vs mma or other proven martial arts
Baji was used in the Nationalist army and the Chinese Liberation Army during modern China's early days
Howdy, Taiwanese here. In this video the Baji Coach, Zhan, emphasizes his tactic to stay outta ground fight and I am amazed how he managed that, which is also one of the core concept in traditional style since ground fight is really dangerous in gang fight. Yet I believe that Baji as a close range fight style is great combo with Westling (especially shuai jiao) technique. For example, in the standing grappling situation, using the iconic Baji Axe kick, which is oblique kick (thich should be banned in mma) that stamp on opponent's shin bone (may break it), will make throwing lotta easier. This is commonly the first skill one will learn in Baji class, and the one being ask to never use when you pick it up.
Baji.Quan practitioner actually doing good.
*the priest smiles*
Hey I understood that reference.
Yorokobe
Y O R O K O B E
S H O U N E N
I'm only familiar with Bajiquan thanks to the game Shenmue. This is my first time seeing it in the absence of horrendous voice acting and dialogue.
There's a Shenmue anime being released sometime soon. It looks very promising.
@@HeavyMetalRonin402 Ha... Let's hope it's better than Shenmue 3!
It's a great art! THere's plenty of good channels about it here on TH-cam too!
Loved this! Been interested in bajiquan for a long while! Would love to see more baji!
I like the music features you've been including at the end!
Excellent work Bajimen. Much of the small frame is seen here however Bajiquan’s focus is in counter striking, overwhelming, breaking and trading blows.
Gotta keep secrets.
Very cool. Thanks for the info!
that's a myth you quack, no such thing
I studied Bajiquan for years. It’s very linear so the rush down doesn’t surprise me. He obviously has other training but you can see his Baji strategy.
Amazing... And this saves the face of the wing chun centerline principle in a high degree!
I will send you some footage of sparring as well once i find a good sparring partner that is a bit more than average kickboxer.
Please do!
My old Kung Fu has some Baji in his arsenal. That stuff always felt effective
Nice! What's the school?
@@BajiquanLondon a small university school. It was also mostly wing chun and Shaolin. But the teacher had also dabbled in Baji and his teacher was taught by one of the guys in the Chinese government security. A tenuous connection, I know. Its also been a while since I was there so I'm not so familiar with it now
@@BajiquanLondon I just know that with some of techniques I got sent flying
@@joe94c haha, I mean, I do Wing Chun so I'm not some kung fu skeptic, but just to be sure you were 100% resisting right? weren't just cooperating with a demo.
@@peterwang5660 we used to spar :)
That was very interesting to watch, the baji practioners techniques were simple and effective, yet did leave him exposed, his chin was not tucked and one good shot there and its over. The mma guy even though he was smaller still had fun and it's good to see this type of exchange regardless of the outcome both can learn from each others style
Very cool...at least this time we got to see style elements of the Baji Kungfu which is much more interesting.
Good stuff
Beautiful video, and super interesting comments
Great to see some Bajiquan sparring!
It's important to remember that Bajiquan is one of those systems that has a large variation in how its branches developed. Taiwanese systems of Baji are went in a very different direction from mainland systems of Baji over the years and you can see it in how they fight and the attitudes of the practitioners. I think Taiwanese Bajiquan is a little bit underrepresented in martial arts popular culture compared to mainland lineages so it's great to see it get some love.
How are they different?
@@junichiroyamashita From my understanding the main thing that's different between the two is that most mainland lineages "added" a lot of new stuff and as such are larger, more complex systems with more forms and material. Taiwan bajiquan, probably owing to it still being practiced by the military there and thus needing to stay simple, is a much smaller system with a lot less to learn. They haven't really added onto it over the years.
Baji is a good workout, Man. I am practising it for a year now by myself, somehow its stance training help improve my boxing lol
My opinion on traditional martial arts is: fighting application looks so obsolate, but their exercises is pretty cool
Nice stuff! Who do you train with?
How do you even train Baji by yourself? Don't you need someone to correct your stances and movement?
@@shikinananya i bought some books and watch some tutorial of the first form and a couple of lectures from an internal style master. By the end, it of course flawed, but I got some understanding in context of movements and muscle twisting directions regarding these style. So primary it is just an exercise for me, i dont treat them as a source of applications.
the applicability of Baji-Quan kinda depends on weather or not you assume that the application should look exactly like the form. the form is a set of movements that are both excercises to develop body mechanics.
@@yamiyomizuki yeah I strongly believe that the forms are actually a martial-strength building exercises, when one possesses that type of strength, then any punches or kicks, with or without 'proper forms', will still be able to deliver great force.
That was great fun!!!
So we have proof Kung Fu works. Okay can we all admit it now
At least Baji and a few others, yes. But not all.
@@Stolas9 All kung fu is for fighting but not all kung fu is taught correctly.
No these bums made Kung fu look worse
@@tyrant_tarantula honestly if you're saying that I don't think you've ever sparred to any serious degree, or maybe you just don't think these guys can compare to your Sifu, but if your Sifu was any good he should have decades of experience and it's just at a different level you can't expect from guys as young as the two dudes in the video.
@@DJAraRealSalsa And not all Kung-fu works.
Was not expecting this baji Guy to be actually good, a suprise but a welcome one! Hope to see more of him in the Future
I'm interviewing him soon too!
keep practicing.. proud of your styles
While it was very fun and much better than usual, it looked like when you push for the heavy blow, baji is less damageing than the leg kicks of the mma. He was literally eating them all. On the toher side the Baji guy was very aware of the blows he could walk through leading to an advantage for a tackle. Interesting.
Wow kungfu guy knows how to hold his own. He feels like a pugilist. :)
Of course!
Good song. I'll have to look that one up.
You should have him commentate some of your videos on his channel!
That one was good, man. Liked both dudes' sparring and your comments. They did well.
It would be amazing if the traditional styles worked on being more competitive in the future to perform more like Western disciplines/MT/Kyokushin and still be genuine Chinese in form.
Furthermore, imagine if those Jet Li, Donnie Yen kungfu movie moves became reality at some point. Humans can evolve and develop crazy skills. It's not impossible to do crazy summersaults or jumping heel kicks in a real fight. It's just not trained enough. A few UFC, k1 and tkd fighters did prove this stuff is possible. The future of martial arts is bright, man!
Would love to see more of Baji,i am really interested in the shoulder,hip,and body strikes of it.
Without knowing how to write nor to read,the problem seems to be the footwork,also in other kung fu videos. They walk like they are unsure,with small nervous steps,and it feels like they are not able to enter correctly and use the bodyweight for a full strike. That seems to be the first thing to correct.
Baji guy did well, very cool sparring.
I am glad that baji guy did a good work; i saw a little of Baji quan and seems cool and effective.
This is the first time I saw Bajiquan in real sparring and it did quite good..
Would've been interesting to see a round with elbow pads, since Baji has a decent amount of elbows from what I remember
0:53~0:54 Actually speaking, this is a variant of famous Baji move- 猛虎硬爬山 : two fists(fist go with body weight , not just fist weight) and an elbow bumping. Finally he used a "push" after the 2nd fist instead of elbow bumping, because it's a practice match with kickboxing rule.
I knew nothing about Bajiquan until recently, and this sparring shows the Baji fighter to be very impressive. I notice right away that a big part of his strategy is to close the distance and force the opponent to fight at close range without being able to deliver big kicks, take-downs and throws, and other typical kick boxing attacks. The Baji guy makes himself difficult to take down, which is typical of Tai Chi, Bagua, Xingyi and other internal martial arts that are strong in balance, rooting, and using the other person's energy against them. But the Baji fighter in this is much more about straight-on or center line strategy, not using much in the way of angles, deflections or similar movement. But his body mechanics still look quite sound. I would say it's still pretty external or hard as a style, but it seems very effective. I'm definitely interested in learning more about it.
Props for sparring at least
Hot take: During the kickboxing, the baji guy seems to have respectable offense. I'm not seeing any defense, though. He "eats" the light punch and kick, then counters. That's not realistic if they were strikes thrown with bad intentions. I had a similar experience with a tai chi guy a long time ago. Basically pretending the strike didn't land.
What I found most interesting was how the baji practitioner broke out of the rear bear hug at 2:13.Iny kungfu school we"re taught to grab the pants leg and throw. But maybe what he did was a little safer.
Hey @Fight Commentary Breakdowns, I've been following your content for the past few years. Here in China there have been more and more full contact competitions where traditional systems send representatives to compete against one another. The representatives tend to be young and athletic with previous combat experience (many supplement the art they represent with Sanda/MMA/BJJ/Muay Thai/Kickboxing), so it isn't any of the Ma Baoguo/Lei Lei stuff you would expect. The rules are similar to Sanda, but from what I know they do allow some ground-and-pound, though I'm not too familiar with the competition format. More and more traditional schools here are teaching their students fighting applications and padwork rather than just going through taolu to compete nationally (although this is still the emphasis), and as a Chinese martial arts lover it's good to see more inheritors returning to their respective arts' combat roots to carry on the tradition. I'll help keep you updated, and in the meantime, keep rolling out the content! Many of your videos are good examples that support this old adage: "it's not the art, it's the artist".
I watched his original video and Qianxian said one of his favourite move is 铁炮开城 which is from xinyi. And in Xingyi there is a move called 炮拳 which is essentially the exact same move with a less fancier name
Ba Ji Quan wasn’t looking bad at all. I would love to see what it would look like with more head movement and ground£ training
Really impressed by baji guy
I know its easy to say while looking at the screen but what Id like to point out is he did took the back but didnt get to lower his level enough to be able to be between the floor and the other guy i.e. lifting him
Never heard of Ba Ji Quan until now. Looks somewhat like Hsing I Chuan. His size helped, along with his keeping up pressure. Interesting that alot (not all) of Hsing I Chuan masters were big guys as well.
The arts are very related down to the fundamental principles.
Couldn't use elbows I think, so many Baji signature moves were not used.
Baji is indeed a nice style when properly trained. In my personal ranking, Baji, Shuai Jiao, Choy Li Fut, Lama, Mantis, Xingyi and BSL are some of the best tcma systems.
BSL? What style is that?
@@javiersoriano671 Bak Siu Lam/Bei Shaolin/Northern Shaolin. Looks like a flashy long fist kungfu, but actually was one of the few styles that competed againt Muay Thai and didn't lost badly. In my country they had the best fighters in CMA, introduced Sanda, and even trained fighters that competed in the big events against guys like Liu Hailong, Bao Ligao, Shelly, Cung Le.
@@murilocaruy ayyeee I learned that style years ago and can definitely say it’s pretty good
Nice
Baiji guy is bigger, in shape and clearly has fight experience. Doesn't look like he's a ground fighting or expert, but he has some idea, and like you say, size matters. Its why we have weight divisions. It's interesting that he has a blitzing style, similar to wing chun guys who can actually fight, but he's also better defensively.
Love the song!!!!!
Baji has really cool take downs, I hope he tries some
Right? Would love them to do more!
I don't know if the MMA rules allows knee hit to the middle body, but there are moments where the baji guy, could land a knee hit, but it seems from the video he is hesitating for it
usually at times when people are on the ground, he would've striked the throat or blind the eyes
I couldn't see a Baji Quan in this sparing
I dunno if this is normal for most baji schools. But, meng cun one of the main baji schools also doubles as a San da school. I'll link you some of my favorite baji tao lu and training videos
Full contact sparring Always tells the truth
if you want to read more about Baji Quan, check out Goh Kenji by Matsuda Ryuchi. it is an incredible work. That manga series is the one bring me into martial arts.
Baji guy didn’t show much Baji… he just kinda rushed in and overpowered the smaller guy… Imo modern Baji ppl could strengthen their tactics by adding Muay Thai strategy and elbow setup. A lot of TCMA isn’t pressure tested, MT is! Add what works and drop what doesn’t!
Thank you! I see way to many people just rag on a style as whole as if there's nothing useful in it.
Secondly Muay Thai and Bajiquan seems dangerous as hell to put together and I actually love the idea of it.
Anyone who was a bajiquan practitioner in the movies was always a beast. Dannng, what happened.
If it's southpaw vs orthodox, would a vertical jab/cross push a boxing jab/cross downwards ?
Bajiquan and Xingyiquan are the most practical Chinese martial arts out there.
I see some ba ji ideas and moves from the small frame. So the guy tries. Although it looks like the baji guy hasn't yet put a lot of days into baji yet. Would be interesting to review this in a couple of years.
Would be interesting to know about how it felt to oppose the baji guy in that way you could perhaps imagine the skill level.
Let's hope he keeps sparring!
3:22 not rlly a bull dog choke more like he tried a scarfhold throw while on the knees and its a pin in wrestling too. usually told not to do in bjj and ppl say do side control instead but ik a few ppl who can make it work
That's because it's harder to get out of side control than it is to get out of a headlock
In kungfu this side control and headlock is called " old man carries a fish on his back's except it's done to your opponent standing up. You see it in one of Chen Ziqiang 2011 sparring video. Our baji man simpliy transfered it to the ground.
the Baji guy has so much size difference
baji guy looks like he's not even trying while kickboxer is going hard
The ring size did not encourage angling in and out.
Baji involves LOTS of grabbing folks and pulling them into punches. But to really get the flavor you should have MMA gloves because half of it is stand up grappling. VERY close in style. The Presidential bodyguards in Taiwan train in Baji. An honest to God Baji guy is not someone you want to do standup grappling with. Nearly half of it is Shao Jiao.
Bajiquan - Akira from Virtua Fighter! :D
Make a sparring to Applied Wing Chun guy, they are great
Sanda borrows some useful techniques from Baji (and other traditional art).The shoulder strike and wrestling moves that follow, for example.
Baji looks like a thai guy that's on a real hurry
Were is baji quan in this video...
MMA guy got rolled, as you said size matters
Is diferent than wingchun?
All Chinese stuff has a lot of stand up grappling built into it. So allowing throws /takedowns would help the Baji guy.
without palm, elbow and shoulder strikes baijiquan is less effective... the guy uses only kicks and punches and he's still going strong
In the first it’s clear as day the guy in yellow gloves isn’t experienced at all and he’s not really a kick-boxer .. it’s more like he learns some chinese martial art
0:33 there's a reason why so many Traditional Chinese martial arts aim to rapidly close in on the opponent.
It's not just a matter of style, but a matter of the context in which hand-to-hand combat occurred in ancient times.
here's an explanation by a martial arts teacher from a Taiwanese university: th-cam.com/video/UHS6RoPZhYk/w-d-xo.html#t=6m16s
and here's the (more elaborate) explanation in Mandarin: th-cam.com/video/j4p7F9HHBbw/w-d-xo.html
"theres no baji"
Uh oh.... XDDDD
Hi
Bajiquan is good technique if you know judo or standing jujutsu submissions.
BajiQuan guy should have used the elbow strikes on that one 😁
Baji is not for sparring. You cannot produce fajin with gloves on. It is for street self defence and an experienced practitioner would use it to disable, to end the fight asap! The level of injury one would want to inflict is dependent on the practitioner or situation, how necessary it may be to end the fight before it even starts.
Baji sparring with boxers etc is very misleading and is not gonna do much and then people get the wrong impression. Baji is Powerful, Beautiful and potentially lethal ❤
There"s a video of a silat practitioner knocking out a qualified bjj fighter who looks like and fights like the Royce Gracie of the 1990'sl. Go to 'Mergathi Putih Silat vs.Bjj. Then go to the rest of the video Mergathi Putih answers. Pretty soon baji quan will do the same and clear kungfus name.
Baji was design for lethal attack on the vital part of human, with those safe equipment i think we couldn't see the real effect of baji😁😸
It looks kinda like old timey boxing
I think it might just be due to how both would have been barefist. It's probably why Baji is known for it's use in elbows, bicep strikes and other areas of the body. Or at least that's my guess.
Respect to the Baji guy for not throwing elbows, those are literally lethal
@PJ Rivera baji is famous for its elbows though. Mma has a lot going for it
@PJ Rivera check out some videos of specifically baji, forms and applications, this video doesn't really showcase what makes baji unique
Baji guy won, clearly as well.
This is the Mountain in the Sea. Looks like Chun Yu Fei didn't take Baji-Quan seriously. He didn't do too well. Needs a better standing grappling game to take on a grappling Kung Fu style.
When any traditional martial artisit wins he tries to coin reasons.
Like kungfu guy had size advantage.
Wow
yellow gloves is scared to get hit.
So many video games in the 90's and 2000's used the Baji & Pigua Combo
Bajiquan... if it can be decent in a fight. Also the dude really needs to stop looking away when he's taking hits.
YOU CANNOT QUANTIFY BAJIQUAN IN A SPARING LESSON. PERIOD.
If any Kung Fu style is “just kickboxing” why is that a bad thing? That sounds like a good thing to me.
Probably because they have their own identities?
I'm kinda sick of styles at this point, there is effective striking and ineffective striking, both of these lads have clean well practiced striking skills
I didnt see any BAJI in there xD
that are not fights, that are kids playing around in the
in the children's room
For the all consuming all go ruthenium
who is supposed to be what ??
I'm no Kickboxer myself. I can tell this kickboxer has plenty to learn and practice before taking up challenges. Why is he doing some wing chun hand posing?
Bajiquan practioner here. There IS definitelly baiquan here. But still,its a very "soft" baji. He stops midway trough and retreats after he enters the other guy s defense. This is incomplete technique. He is supposed to advance. Always advance. As soon as he entered his defense,he should have done an elbow strike,shoulder strike and continue the "flow" as long as the guy is still standing. But,yeah,just a sparring,ok....