Yugioh Champion Tries To Guess How Good MTG Cards Are w/
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Jesse Kotton tries to guess how good Magic: the Gathering cards are!
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If there are any other YugiTubers you'd like to rate MTG cards on the show, who would you want to see?
It'd be sweet if you could get Joshua Schmidt. He said that he likes doing these
Farfa would be kinda funny imo. He has no idea about how mtg works i believe
@@lamalogi2376 That would be great to have him on!
@@JoaoPedro-jk1ub I feel like he'd start using Hearthstone phrases
@@JoaoPedro-jk1ub Farfa definitely has knowledge of MTG, he has done one of these before
I'm gonna try to give an explanation to a yugioh player of why yorion is so broken.
So, Goki is a deck that is famous for its two card combos. You get any two warrior monsters in play, make Isolde, and you're off. This is called a "two card" combo, but it's actually a three card combo. The third card, Isolde, gets to live in your extra deck, and as such it sort of doesn't count. You can make the goki deck 100% warrior monsters, and know that when you get two of them the Isolde will always be available. If goki players had to play Isolde as like a card in their main deck, that they had to draw and then play from their hand by sacrificing the two material, it would be a MUCH worse deck. Even with all the same things it could do.
In magic, Yorion + a monster with an ETB effect is a "two card combo". Not as good as the ones in yugioh, but by magic standards its pretty strong. You get a nice bit of value, and the more ETB cards you have in play the better. Now, if Yorion was a card you had to play in your main deck, this would be a sorta mediocre combo. You have to worry about drawing both your Yorion and your ETB cards, and you could get stuck with Yorions in hand but nothing to bounce with them. Maybe you don't always get Yorion on turn 5 and you lose some percentages there.
BUT! Like Isolde, Yorion is in your "extra deck", so this two card combo becomes a 1 card combo. Your WHOlE deck can just be the stuff that's good to bounce with Yorion, just like the whole goki deck can be stuff that's good to make Isolde with. And further more, Yorion gets better the *more* ETB cards you get with it, so not only do you only need to fill your deck up with one kind of thing, it's a kind of thing you want as many of as possible. Most magic decks don't get to work this way. If you want synergy, you need to draw two different cards from your deck at the same time. Yorion decks (and companion decks in general ) are playing on a completely different level of consistency to non companion decks.
Yeah, pretty much. It's also why commander is so popular, since you always have access to a thing you can build your deck around. Yorion in particular can combo with things like virtue of knowledge and panharmonicon to increase the number of ETB effects per entry.
You could also have this artifact that bounces yorion and brings him back and then you can bounce everything again including an artifact like that one
Bouncing everything 3-4 times (depending on how many of the artifact you played)
It was bonkers
TL;DR companion was a mistake
Thanks, this helps a lot
Totally agree with all of this! Also to add - playing 20 more cards than the minimum deck size is a bigger drawback the narrower the field of playable cards is. If you have to play cards that are significantly worse in terms of quality to hit that 20, that cost feels steeper and there's a world where you might decide that it's not worth it. Yorion happened to release at a time when there was a pretty deep card pool, and players found that playing the extra 20 cards didn't noticeably bring down the overall individual card quality of the deck.
Really shows how different the logic behind evaluating cards in both games is when arguably the best yugioh player of all time got most of them wrong.
Yea that's what's so fun about these videos!
4 mana is too expensive.
…But there is this other card, that makes it cost 2 less, so you are wrong.
hmm. I like the format, because it fosters communication between different communities.
Still it doesn’t make a lot of sense to evaluate a single card from even different formats.
@@antman7673 same! And maybe thought-knot seer was too hard of a card to evaluate because the context is needed more than usual. Then again it’s fun for the creators to not have the context lol
Well thought knot is still pretty decent if you just play it on t4 not absolutely broken but it really helped tron out when you got disrupted or against combo.
I was really surprised he got yorion wrong when it's basically an 8th card in hand
Grass is one of Jesse's favorite ygo cards so to him, the payoff of having to run 20 extra cards in your deck must be basically "win the game when you play this card". Obviously if you just compare Yorion to Grass directly, it doesn't immediately seem even in the same stratosphere of power.
Yea that’s true, that’s what I like the most about making these videos
Hey Snatches, you make really helpful videos! It's cool to catch you in the wild, so thought I'd comment.
@@ytmikelol thanks!
That Grass Looks Greener was fun to the point where I've taken traumatize dredge to locals. It was terrible for several reasons but I did get to mill 30 cards with 1 spell and yorion was resetting stitcher supplier and shriekhorn and satyr wayfinder.
Yorion is like our grass looks greener, it is jank on paper, but works way better then you think in practice
Yep exactly!! I’ve already done a video where I make an MTG player guess the power level of Grass 😅
7:10 Ah yes. *Local Poketrainer Joey ends up in the hospital after a trainer sends out Emrakul, the Aeons Torn to combat his level 5 Rattata*. Lol
Lmaoooo
Thought knot seer is currently terrible, because in the formats where it used to be good it's enabler has been banned, and in other formats it's way too weak.
Karn Great Creator basically erased this card from Tron decks lol
Yeah I think he evaluated it well. If you can’t turbo it out, it’s bad. Which is true. It’s just the best thing to use your temple mana on. Eye of ugin would have been a more interesting card to look at imo.
@@subtleknife1 that gives me a good idea, doing eye of Ugin in a future video. Tron decks before MH2 used to play TKS in the sideboard against decks that would attack their mana to give a good turn 4 play before they got to Tron.
Eldrazi Aggro (Winter) was not the best Modern deck in history. It was by far Hogaak Dredge. I was playing Modern during the hay-day of both decks and dying to Hogaak sucked a whole bunch more because of how quick it became lethal. Like turn 3 and 4 quick, consistent turn 3 and 4. Like turn 3.5 was the average kill time. I was running Black Green Elves and turn 4 was the earliest I could kill if my opponent didn’t do anything. Turn 5 was my most consistent kill turn. With turn 6 being in a close second. Eldrazi was very early too but it wasn’t as consistent as Hogaak was.
@@Phelddagrif1998 albeit a small sample size, CardMarket Magic did a TH-cam series to find the best modern deck of all time and put every best modern deck in each year against each other, and Eldrazi Winter Aggro won the whole thing.
Demon of Caatastrophes feels like an unfair card to show to a modern Yu-Gi-Oh player. They can special summon like, 15 times in a turn, so the cost of tributing one body is almost nothing to them.
That’s the fun of having them evaluate a card like that!
I mean its also just a body that does nothing so to a yugioh player that should set off alarm bells. If something costs more than 3 mana that better be doing something to the board before it inevitably eats removal.
That card literally seems like some kind of zombyra the dark or chainsaw insect to me. A cheap high stats monster that has a downside written on it in order to "balance" it, but it just makes it bad overall.
@@kuroneko687 it looks more like Chaos max for me. Big, scary looking, huge stats, perfect beater. And then any good deck just beat it with 1 card and make you feel stupid.
Honestly I think it's fair as a modern yu gi oh player myself I can tell you it's way different than magic yu gi oh cards don't have a cost making players look at every card differently is it and despite getting most wrong he did understand for the most part how with certain synergies and speed of the format how some cards could be good
Hell yea Jesse! I would say you should have MBT on but his name literally means mono blue tron lol
I didn't know what MBT meant but I do now!
It actually means Marincess Blue Tang.
@@Ragnarok540 doubt it lol
It intially meant Mono-Blue Tron, as he played Magic competitively for quite some time before getting in to Yugioh.
After Marincess Blue Tang was released, there's a bit of a meme that MBT meant the Marincess monster the whole time.
Finally we have one video that goes this way around. Usually it's MTG players rating the other cards
Yea I thought it would be a good idea to switch it up!
You just have to look on channels from other games.
@@JonaxII there will be more yugitubers on here in the future for sure
Lurrus got banned in Vintage for power level reasons, which i didnt even know was possible until it happened.
Yea me neither lol
Free Black Lotus every turn.
Just a byproduct of restricting doing nothing in vintage when you're running just the one companion anyways since copies in the maindeck just flatout don't work with lurrus since it's mana value is 3 and it's companion requirement is
The other very important thing about companions is that you basically get to start with an extra card in hand. Yorion lets you trade 1 for 1 for most of the game, then end up with a 4/5 flyer after they run out of removal which will also probably get you several cards worth of value by reusing etbs.
Zirda is also banned in legacy so that makes 3 companions that are banned in formats (ignoring lutri since that wasn't from power level). Most of the others have seen some play because most of the conditions are pretty doable and an extra guaranteed card is great.
Yea getting the extra card is huge
I'm guessing that also means you get to otherwise run a deck with pretty low cost cards and maybe a bit higher land count than usual that caps at 4 mana except yorion and it means even with the extra cards your deck would end up very consistent because you have your top end guaranteed, which means most of your actual cards are playable early one, which means it also hurts less to be land flooded, which means you can make it very unlikely to get mana screwed without hurting your deck.
Not sure if I'm exactly right or if that's how it's played but I can see how having such a guaranteed connsistent play would mean you could make your deck very consistent in other ways that make the extra cards not matter.
Are there any 1 cost companion? cause that actually sounds kinda busted to be able to play a deck with a guaranteed turn 1 play that doesn't need to run any 1drop.
@@Laezar1 the cheapest ones are 3. They are definitely busted, though the errata that requires you to pay 3 to put them into your hand before casting them did make them a bit less so.
@@seandun7083 at least you dodged that bullet lol
@@Laezar1 Of course Lurrus of the Dream den (3 mana 3/2 with "once during each of your turns you may cast a permanent spell with mana value 2 or less from your graveyard) was played in vintage where you could cast it turn 1 off of black lotus, then just replay the black lotus... That one is strong enough that it has gotten banned in a few formats even after the errata.
It is worth mentioning that Reaper of the Wilds did see some fringe play in RtR-Theros Standard (before Siege Rhino) in the 'Jund Monsters' archetype which used ramp like Elvish Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid to deploy large midrange creatures such as Stormbreath Dragon, Polukranos, and even Reaper of the Wilds ahead of the curve. I would say his guess of it being a 'solid' card is not an unreasonable rating.
This was good, looking forward to more.
Limiting cards to a certain format would be a good way to anchor things. Also, an episode for Sealed/Draft formats would be a good way to look at common cards.
True! I didn’t think of doing an episode of a specific format
@@TheOneJameYT A legacy or Vintage specific episode would be interesting.
Vintage all-stars like Paradoxical Outcome, Golgari Grave Troll and Lodestone Golem are not great in most other formats. Legacy also has goofy-looking banned cards like Goblin Recruiter, Zirda, the Dawnwaker and White Plume Adventurer that look like bulk, but are basically one-card combos.
@@randommaster06 true!! I might try some of those
@@TheOneJameYT Looking forward to it.
@@TheOneJameYT Show them Banding.
The other thing about Rotting Regisaur is that I've seen it almost like a combo piece, playing it with cards like Fight Rigging or The Great Henge which really want you to have a huge creature on the battlefield and just having 3 mana overstatted creatures, even with big downsides like this one, is worth it.
Yep! Fight rigging is awesome
Fight rigging came way later but the henge makes this bearable. Back during standard you'll see this mainly in monoblack along with rankle and the annoying 1 mana vampire which imo is a bigger threat than this big dumb dead dino.
Good old Madness trigger as well
13:02 as far as im aware we yugioh players do just default to "on-summon" or maybe some variations of it like "on-normal", "on-flip", "on-special" etc depending on context though the latter can also encapsulate xyz/sync/fusion/pend/links but people will understand regardless
I wish we could all say ETB or battlecry!
The last one reads like the 2400 atk 4* monsters in yugioh.
Yea for real
8000/20 =400 and 400×7 = 2800 meaning that the equivalent should be 2800 attack In yugioh
@@flyingchicken973 Well yes, but I'm referring to monsters with super high attack for their cost but detrimental effects.
@@dudono1744 oh
modern yugioh a 8000 atk 4* wouldn't be good, hes evaluating it with other card game experience
Night on Bald Mountain/Ave Maria is a segment from Disney's Fantasia and yeah the demon there does look like Demon of Catastrophes. It's very good.
I think something extra that should be mentioned for Yorion is that there were enough generic-ish high power cards in its formats to the point the +20 deck size didn't really feel like a drawback when your deck's power level doesn't get diluted by playing extra cards.
Yea I agree!
Also that demon is called chernabog and is a boss fight in kingdom hearts 1
Magic creator Rhystic Studies actually made a video on the artist, Siddarth Chaturvedi, and commented that it was a subtle nod to the Fantasia demon. Highly recommend that video and his channel for learning about art in Magic
I think evaluating tks as “very strong” is maybe a misstep. At the time it was, but as of now it is very very mid. Only really good cause it costs a pseudo two mana
Yea I agree with you, the power level of modern has skyrocketed since modern horizons which has a lot to do with it too
card market did a modern mini tourney to see the best modern deck of all time and eldrazi aggro was still one of the best. So you weren't wrong about tks@@TheOneJameYT
If the eldrazi lands were still playable, it would see play for sure. Even though modern is more powerful, the eldrazi deck was very fast specifically because eye of ugin let you apply the mana discount to multiple spells per turn, so any loss in tempo on turn 1 or 2 is made up on 3 or 4
I think something to mention about demon of catastrophes is that it's part of the cost specifically - every time you even try to *cast* it, you have to sac a creature. If it gets countered, you still lose your sacrificed creature. You don't get to pick what you sacrifice after it resolves, you have to do it beforehand. Having less information when you're forced to take an action is always worse.
Yep! Exactly
Yugioh has a really good analogy to this. Tributing your monster for a Level 6 monster was historically pretty rare for the same reasons you mentioned. Tribute summoning really began to play more of a role in yugioh once the level 6s started to have ETB effects (the monarchs).
You can't stack multiple Eye of Ugins, they're legendary.
I meant eye of Ugin + Eldrazi temple for the turn 2 TKS play!
I really don't think TKS is still good in modern. Grief scam does a better job as a 2 card combo, and doesn't need to be played in EXACTLY a specific tron variant that really probably is worse than regular green tron
Yeah, there's so much wrong information in the first 5 minutes of the video (that's where i'm at), it's staggering.
@lordgod9958 the video isn't about what is better in modern lol. It's about sight reading a card.
TKS isn’t the best possible thing to be doing of course, but that doesn’t mean TKS isn’t a good card
Great video! It was awesome seeing the MTG analysis from a Yugioh player! Keep it up!
Also, if possible, try some Universe Beyond cards or some of the eternal format-legal Unfinity cards. Lol
Haha those would be hilarious
When Yorion was legal I played him in a combo deck. It was a toolbox combo deck, so the extra cards were just more toolbox slots.
It was based on Vivien on the hunt getting into a kiki-jiki + felidar guardian infinite damage combo.
I love Vivien on the Hunt! I have a few decks on this channel of me playing her
@@TheOneJameYT Great! A fellow man of culture! ;)
I play Magic and couldn't figure these out because you're considering whether or not they have *ever* been good rather than whether or not they are currently good :P I also don't play either Standard or Modern which are the formats these were played in, so that definitely doesn't help me.
It's hard to rate MTG cards for how good they currently are because there are so many different formats compared to Yugioh so I tried my best!
@@TheOneJameYT Yeah, I look at these and say "Well Yorion is fringe playable and none of the others are" but that's only *to my knowledge* since I don't know the history or current meta of every single format
@@mclark347 Yorion takes fairly recent history to know, similar to asking if Vanity's Emptiness is a good card or not. If I made it easy on the creators in the videos, it wouldn't be as fun to watch!
@@TheOneJameYT I guess it does make sense that the one considered broken is the only one currently still played in eternal formats, even if it is currently fringe
@@mclark347 yep! It’s also even played in the main deck of certain commander decks, and also a big part of the Pioneer meta (a different eternal format)
Its also worth noting that the discard effect on Rotting Regisaur can be used as a graveyard combos/value enabler. Its not necessarily strictly a downside.
True!
Madness anyone?
Hyped cards are always fun. In yu-gi-oh we just got the new Horus support and they were hyped. We saw none played on the last YCS (they were in decks,w e just didn't see any deck that topped use them on camera). A tuber even posted a vid saying the cards were bad, because the key card needed was easy to get of the field and the entire play is just dead.
Yea exactly, that’s one of the things that makes these videos so interesting, even on my end
One of the main reason of teh hype was because in the OCG Horus actually did great, but people always overlook the differences in the formats,
Forgot to mention that the discard part of Regi is not a cost to keeping it around. If you discard nothing the creature doesnt die, it just sticks around till something kills it.
I feel like that part was implied but I see how that would be useful to say
@@TheOneJameYT There's a somewhat significant difference in connotation between the "standby" phase in Yugioh and the "upkeep" phase in Magic. The latter implies some sort of required maintenance cost/process, and so to the unfamiliar eye it could definitely read like an action that must occur to "keep" the creature "up".
@@Metallicity yea I agree. I don’t think it should be called the upkeep but that’s just how it is lol
Yeah, that's a big part of what made it playable compared to similar cards before it. We've seen overstated creatures with a reoccurring downside several times before in the game, but they usually say if you can't pay the cost, sacrifice them, or in some cases tap them down. Also very key is that Regisaur has you discard before your draw step, so you don't get locked out of playing the game if you start top decking.
It meant the deck could thrive in aggro decks where it just empties its hand as fast as possible and then there's just no downside. Or for it to work in some graveyard focused decks where the discard was mostly an upside.
I think the power of companion would have made sense to him more if you said "imagine playing yugioh, but you start with 6 cards in hand and one of them is garunteed to be one of your best cards"
That’s basically the extra deck anyways lol
I appreciated that Fantasia reference and I agree yes it looks exactly like that demon. When Demon of Catastrophes came out I opened it in my prerelease pool and went Black Red Aggro with Open the Graves as my promo that pool was pretty good actually, I had Sarkhan, Fire Blood too. I made my money back on that pool. I went 2-1 so pretty good, the pack weren’t great most notable card was a foil psychic corrosion at the time was like $2.
I loved that card when I first got into magic
Yeah I was like that's nice, but I was thinking it's a callback to lord of the pit with someone at wotc feeling some heavy nostalgia and maybe the art director thinking let's get art that is similar that could also be fantasia-esque since it is a big demon.
The otter companion was also banned before it came out in commander b/c every red/blue could theoretically run an instant access card
Yea it’s just too free lol
The visible confusion on Jesse's face when he was told that karn allowed you to get a card from your side deck
🤣🤣🤣
This guy is super nice, down to earth, and comfortable being wrong, seems like a really cool dude.
I agree!
Just to uhm achskually - there is a combo deck that plays Yorion - some Aluren variants in legacy are on Yorion! However, the deck becomes more "midrange fair deck with an oops I win combo button," so Yorion works there
Nice! I don’t play close attention to legacy but I’m glad that’s a deck
@@TheOneJameYT oh totally fair, I just think it's cool and worth mentioning :)
Great video though!
You can’t go “eye of ugin, eye of ugin, cast TKS for free”
Yea I know, I misspoke there lol
Statistically, he should've got at least 2 right just guessing at random.
The odds of him getting everything wrong are so small we must consider the alternative - that he got everything wrong because he knew what the right answers were.
Still the three most important words when evaluating mtg creatures: Dies to Removal.
15:25 most of the Yorion bans weren't because of how good it is (and it is good) but because the extra 20 cards were slowing down games a LOT as you had to search the extra 20 cards and shuffle an extra 20 cards every time you triggered a fetch land when you were looking for the right shock land.
Yorion is literally Zealantis
“This card is very strong!” Thought-knot seer sees NO fucking play lol
Currently no, I might have been too excited about that one 😅
We NEEEED more of these
I agree!
When you use Yorion, you are still adding good cards to your decks, with lands to balance out the mana count. So yeah, the chance of you drawing any ONE specific card gets lower, but you are also getting the benefit of adding a bunch of good cards too. The idea behind it is interesting from a deck building theory perspective, the problem was it being an 8th card in your opening hand.
Great collabs, hope you grow on the platform! Not enough content creators knowledgeable on both games
I agree, and thanks!!
Ngl I got thought-knot wrong because in my head I was thinking "you summon this for 4 mana, then they respond with an instant to remove it, then you take one card from their hand, then they draw. So you'd be trading 4 mana + your thought-knot for one of their cards in hand. But as a yugioh player it's probably that I overestimated how available removal instant cards are
Yeah but even that is pretty good. You get to swap their best card in hand with a random card from their deck. And it's an exile not a discard. You also get information on their hand. You could easily set them up for an awkward turn, or take out a specific card they need to deal with your next turn.
The fantasia short in question was Night on Bald Mountain
Watching CovertGoBlue run Yorion I think around 1-2 years ago it was so awesome
I agree it was!
Forgot to add the hooray music.
For some reason the hooray music put itself earlier on in the video and I didn't catch that placement until it was too late lol
btw you cant souble eye of Ugin to play Thought-Knot for free.
A: The land is legendary so unless you have a card that makes you ignore the legend rule you can only have one in play
B: It only reduces generic Mana. The cost is 3 generic and C (That must be generated by a source that specifically adds colorless mana. Everything that generates generic mana was erratad to produce that many colorless instead. But you can't use lets say a forrest to pay for the colorless cost. That set).
fun fact: Oath of the Gatewatch (the set) is the only reason why generic and colorless mana are 2 different things
I meant to say Eye of Ugin + Eldrazi Temple for the turn 2 TKS 😅 and I didn’t know that about oath of the gatewatch!
I used to run a lurrus deck on Arena. So many crippling enchantments that put -2/-2 on opponents that I would use to kill their creatures and nerf their bruisers… not to mention the cheap black deathtouch critters that I could sacrifice endlessly.
It was good times.
Had a v2 with a ton of Orzhov creatures that would die and generate spirits, and a creature that dealt damage to the opponent every time a creature ETB’d under my control… or when one of my creatures died.
Yep I remember this deck. It played Dead Weight and Mire’s Grasp!
its funny how as a player i see this cards and can immediately evaluate but from an outside perspective its so complicated and hard to judge cards delicious 5/5 though... this is what happens when i devote way too much time to a card game
also another goody about rotting regisaur is its a nice explorer fight club deck piece which is fun for cheating big boy spells
Yea I love that deck! With fight rigging
3:45 MTG Judge here. Couple things wrong with that, first the legend rule, Eye of Ugin is legendary so there's no point where you'd have two in play in eldrazi winter, playing the second one means you lose the first. Second, even if you did play two with some Mirror Gallery type effect, Eye of Ugin reduces the cost by two generic mana each, Thought-Knot Seer requires three generic and one colorless, so you could only reduce the cost by the 3 generic mana with multiple Eyes of Ugin.
Yea i misspoke when talking about that. I meant to say the turn 2 TKS was with eye of Ugin and Eldrazi temple
I use Rotting Regisaur's discard effect as part of my Madness Vampire deck strategy:
- Falkenrath Gorger
- Olivia, Mobilized for War
- Bloodhall Priest
- Bloodghast
- Furyblade Vampire
- Stromkirk Captain
- Stromkirk Condemned
- Stromkirk Noble
- Flamewake Phoenix
- Hazoret the Fervent
- Madness spells
- Flashback spells
I love that!
Chernabog is the name of the Demon from the Fantasia bit, that resembles Demon of Catastrophes!
I had to replay a section of the first Kingdom Hearts, to prove to a friend that his name was, in fact, Chernabog, because I made the same comparison!
one thing not mentioned about the companions is that prior to the nerfing of the rule is that Lurrus was so good it was the only card banned in vinatge based solely on power level.
Yep it was a crazy time
It's kind of a special case, to be fair, I barely even count it as a power level ban. It wasn't banned because "oh my god it's so good nobody should get any copies". It was banned because restricting did actual literal nothing about how it was played. You actively wanted to *not* have more than 1 because copies in your deck meant no companion copy. So it was banned because restricting it like normal was 100% the same as just doing nothing.
"Imagine shuffling an 80-card deck."
*laughs in Commander*
LMAO
18:50 totally looks like the thing from that Disney movie
Now it's my time to have even the most remote clue as to what's going on!
That’s what I love to hear!!
You didn't mention that companion was a mechanic that is so broken that it needed to be errated
I saw Worldsea Dragon Zealantis being used in Crystal Beast combo and that reminded me of Yorion
It’s pretty close!
Forgot to mention graveyard centric decks, where rotting regisaur 's text box turns into upside
True, and madness decks
It's funny to me that someone with a moderate amount of knowledge about MTG is struggling with this, because I've had a similar experience with friends who are Yugioh players. One of my Yugioh friends has played MTG and has a decent understanding of how it works. Still, I had a lot of fun having her look at pairs of similar cards from the same or related sets, because most of the time, it was pretty hard for her to figure out which one of each pair was actually any good. Conversely, with my moderately good understanding of Yugioh, I usually have a pretty good idea of whether cards they show me are good or at least useful in some way, even though I find Yugioh to be absurdly convoluted. Maybe it's because of how pushed the Yugioh meta always is, and how dependent it is on certain types of really strong monster effects. Like, MTG has that "creatures without some ETB/LTB effect aren't worth it", but the magnitude of it is so much greater in Yugioh. Which actually makes it surprising that Jesse didn't infer that there would be a Yorion deck based around its recurring blink effect!
Yep! Everything is contextual and to be fair he has none of the context 😅
The issue with yorion is that it looks so terrible. You pay 8 mana split into 3 and 5 across 2 turns and pray that somehow didnt already lose you the game.
How many bodies do you have on board when you resolve yorion? I'd assume in an even game you have maybe 1 etb creature you played the previous turn.
Running 80 cards makes you less likely to see a specific etb that you might want to combo so instead its just good stuff.
The real culprits behind that deck are the Modern Horizon freebie elementals that have good ETBs and can come down at the same time as yorion.
He was right about demon of catastrophes looking like fantasia
Eye of Ugin is Legendary
That's right! I meant to say Eye of Ugin + Eldrazi Temple to cast TKS on turn 2!
Thought-knot Seer isn't played as much as it was in years past but it still has intrinsic strength
Yep!
There was so much wrong about the thought-knot seer, like the deck wasn’t called eldrazi winter, that was a time in the format
It became known as Eldrazi winter but it was also a time period
Wait, Jesse plays commander?? This can be the beginning of a lot of fun colabs!
I was surprised too!
Some reasons why Rotting Regisaur was good, while Demon of Catastrophes is bad:
* 3 Mana vs. 4 mana. This is SUPER important in most Magic formats, because mana efficiency is king and the effective difference between 3 mana and 4 mana is much greater than the effective difference between 4 mana and 5 mana. Most decks are built to guarantee you can get to 3 mana by turn 3 at pro levels, but the same is not true of getting to 4 mana by turn 4, and getting to turn 3 when you're on the play (having gone first) means your opponent has fewer removal options.
* Certain board cost vs. potential hand cost. Even if everything goes right and you have 4 lands on turn 4, you might not have a creature to sacrifice to the demon. Or you might have creatures, but they're more integral to your long-term game plan than the demon is. Meanwhile, the Regisaur costs nothing to play, and the cost only happens after it's been in play at least a turn cycle. If an opponent kills the demon before you can attack with it, you've lost both the demon AND the creature you sacrificed to summon it for no gain. If an opponent kills the regisaur before your turn, you've just lost the dinosaur and no other resources.
* Potential no-cost scenario. What happens if you don't have cards to discard to the Regisaur? Nothing. There's no penalty associated with it, and since it happens on your upkeep (before your draw step), you won't miss out on you draw for the turn if you can't pitch anything to it. The kinds of decks this plays in will empty its hand pretty fast to begin with, so there's a good chance this winds up being a virtual vanilla creature. The demon, on the other hand, always requires a sacrifice to play unless you're cheating it on to the battlefield, and if cheating cards on to the battlefield is your strategy, there's better targets for reanimation.
* Speaking of cheating things into play, you can use the Regisaur to pitch things into your graveyard for future reanimation if your deck is built around that strategy, turning its downside into an upside.
* One Black vs. Two Black. The color pips are a minor, but important, consideration. It's easier to play multiple colors when the cards don't cost multiples of the same color to case. The Regisaur often had a home in 3-color decks because of how easy it was to splash in, since it only required a single black mana. It could be the only black card in those decks and the land base could support it. meanwhile, the demon requires a heavier commitment to black to make sure it's castable on time, which limits the number of decks it might find a home in.
* 7 power vs. 6 power. A very small, but important, difference is that one point of Power. Three hits from the 7/6 Regisaur to a player at 20 life will kill them. Three hits from the 6/6 demon, even if they all connect, leaves that player at 2 life. And the only life point that matters in Magic is the last one, so you need to hit them a 4th time to actually with the game. A 3 turn "life clock" vs a 4 turn "clock" is much harder for a player to deal with, especially since it begins one turn earlier in the game (or two turns, if you give the Regisaur haste like the example in the video).
* Flying and Trample on the demon are redundant. Both of them are evasion abilities, abilities that allow a creature to avoid blockers in some fashion. Flying avoids creatures that can't fly, trample goes over the top of small creatures. It's very rare that you will need both on the same creature in most cases. So it might as well only have one of those abilities (Flying is usually better).
Jesse, the piece is called "Night on Bald Mountain" and the creature's name is Chernabog
Very good to know!
Would love to see this format with Cemoooo Distantcoder and Dzeef
It would be awesome to have them
you can't thought-knot seer off two eye of ugin on turn two, because it has a required colorless in it's cost. only the 3 generic part of the cost can be reduced.
I made a mistake in explaining it, but the turn 2 TKS play is what I was talking about, using eye of ugin and Eldrazi Temple
Evaluating creatures is always going to be hard. The "dies to removal" conversation is going to be based on what's in the format.
There's that one Angel from around the Ixalan period (can't think of the set or card name) that was really good. The problem is that there was always a removal spell in the format that bullied it out. If the angel wasn't played then people stopped running the removal. As soon as the angel started showing up in decks, the removal started showing back up. A great card that was a threat but got bullied out of the format.
Yea you’re right, which was probably one of the reasons I chose creatures over instants and sorceries. I just didn’t want the cards to be too obvious lol
@@TheOneJameYT You're evil and you know it! I approve.
@@only1sn1not1taken 😈
Chernabog from Disney's Fantasia. Demon of Catastrophes looks like Chernabog.
Thanks!!
@@TheOneJameYT No problem!
"Immagine shuffling an 80 card deck..."
Commander players sweating while watching this. 💀
🤣
Eldrazi winter wasn't the deck, it was the era. When Eldrazi were the number 1 deck BY FAR, easily a tier 0 deck for what ygo players would call a 'format. Also, Eye of Ugin is a legendary land so no, you don't go eye of ugin turn 1, eye of ugin turn 2. You would still only be able to have 1 eye of ugin on the field. What the deck did do though was play eye of ugin turn 1, and then play Eldrazi Mimic which is a 2 cost creature. Because of eye of ugin they would be free to play. And a playset in MTG is 4, not 3, so you could potentially have 4 creatures out on turn 1. Then turn 2 you would play Eldrazi temple, use it to add 2 colourless mana for a thought-knot seer to get a 4/4 creature onto the field, and with as many Eldrazi Mimics as you had, they would "mimic" the power and toughness of whatever colourless creature entered the battlefield. So basically you could have the up to 4 Eldrazi Mimics become 4/4's on turn 2. MTG starts at 20 life, and you could swing for 16 turn 2. That is unheard of in this game.
If you are going to do collabs like this, please do your research a bit more so as to properly inform your viewers.
I did misspeak when talking about eye of ugin. What I meant was eye of ugin + eldrazi temple is a turn 2 thought-knot seer. Also, Eldrazi winter was an era, but it's also a term used now to refer to the actual eldrazi deck being played at the time.
I do love this video format. Maybe mixing in some wider camera cuts would provide some more engaging viewing
I used to do that more often but people didn’t like it as much since they couldn’t continually read the cards on the screen!
"For 4 mana this card isn't great"
"This card is amazing cause you can cheat it out"
Yeah no shit
🤣
Awesome video!!
Thanks!
@@TheOneJameYT metalfoes true Draco was crazy, I was playing true Draco Kozmo lol you guys would just steal my ships 😭
Thought Knot Seer is played heavily.
Yeah uh...I dunno if I'd tell some one that without saying "back in the day". The deck it was in got it's key pieces banned so now this card isn't played any where.
It was played heavily in mono green tron all the way up till recently, when Karn Great Creator started seeing more play. It’s still played to this day in eldrazi tron too.
My man, thought-knot hasn't had a Top 8 finish since 2021. Both of those decks have been fringe at best for over two years
@@TheOneJameYT
Still played vs being a contender is a big distinction. The deck is rogue and no where near top tier quality. Much less not even being that good of a card on it's own. Even when the deck was in it's prime it wasn't any one of the creatures that made it good, it was the lands themselves.
Holy shit I wasnt expecting him on here
More banger guests to come!
Fantasia lol would be that disney movie
Every card Jesse called wrong, I called right watching this but I thought the dinosaur was going to be trash. xD
Haha literally opposite 😅
Hey, Yugi player here. I got a ruling question regarding the shown companion: I know there are cards in mtg that create exact copies, no? would the copy trigger the etb too? and could it target the og companion and they would reenter themselves and other etbs every turn?
yes but all the companions are legendary so you can only control one at a time. so you have to sacrifice one before the trigger resolves
Yorion was used with a card called Charming prince who had a mode of flickering one other creature on etb
TyrantOfTales is correct
While you can play Clone (4 mana creature, enters the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield) on Yorion to retrigger the ETB like you describe, Yorion (and all other companions too) is Legendary so one of the two would be sent to the graveyard before the new ETB resolves. You could choose to keep the OG Yorion, thus blinking (that's what we call this exile-and-bring-back Interdimensional Matter Transporter effects in Magic) it and the rest of your board and getting another full blink next turn but the Clone wouldn't be around anymore so you can't loop this.
@@MrMarnel i see, ty. i had no clue the rules of legendary cards would work that way
There is a card, Spark Double, that enters as a copy but is no longer legendary.
The problem with that is they only come back on the next end step, so looping Yorion like that is actually really slow, not to mention all the creatures you blink will either be exiled for your opponents turn so they could just attack you without worrying about blockers, or they'll be exiled during your turn and you won't be able to attack.
Reaper of the wilds was relised BEFORE Rhino (Rhino if KTK while Reaper is original Theros), and actually was pretty good in MonoG devotion with black splash (for thoughsize). MoinoGreen was kinda top-deck and Gb was MonoG-killer while against other decks it was nearly as good as monoG but worse against burn, because have less health-gain then MonoG.
Yea I believe I said in the video that Reaper came out before Rhino, but when Rhino came out, people stopped playing Reaper. I wish Reaper continued to be good though!
@@TheOneJameYT fetches, delve and rtr rotation wrecked devotion board strategy, aeverybody start playing some "Abzan-blue" vs "jeskai-black" 4c midrange grindfest. And as reaper doesnt fill graveyard even dedicated BG strategies prefered things like Nyx Weaver or Tasigur over Reaper :(
7:48 I think the cards selected for this game shouldn't be meta dependent because it's literally impossible for a Yugioh player to know the meta context of the time. Any card, no matter how good can be dwarfed in a meta if a better card existed to fill it's niche but that doesn't mean it's bad in absolute terms. As a Magic player, I can say the key insight that Jesse could have used to correctly guess the answer here was that you need 6 mana available to both play and protect this card making it too slow when "enter the battlefield" effects always exist. He shouldn't need to know about Siege Rhino otherwise this is just a game of chance guessing whether a better card existed at the time of release for the same mana cost.
Correct, he shouldn’t have to know about siege rhino but it’s not really about him being right, it’s about hearing his thought process and it’s entertaining to hear his thoughts about cards that are good or not from an outside perspective. It wouldn’t be fun if I made it easy on him, right?
@@TheOneJameYT I'm not so sure. His thought process was correct for some of them but he got it wrong anyway because an enabler card happened to exist which he didn't know about. Figuring out the answer to these should only depend on broad knowledge of what kind of strategies exist in the colours. For example, he could have gotten Yorian by recognising it's basically a free card and ETB blink strategies are probably a thing but he didn't so he deserved to lose that one. And he should have assumed that removal and chump blockers are prevalent for large creatures that are cheap but otherwise do nothing. But for Thought-Knot Seer, it's only okay without Eldrazi lands. Its niche is filled today by cost delay creatures like Anointed Peacekeeper which saw play in certain mono white decks last year but the standard rate for these types of creatures is now 3 mana and Thought-Knot costs 4 outside of Eldrazi decks.
There are ways to add context without giving it away. I've played this game with my Yugioh friends guessing Magic cards and I always tell them the format they're considering the card in. Commander, Standard and 1v1 eternal formats play very differently from each other so it's a tiny bit of context to know how big the card pools are and how fast the format is. I also stay away from cards that broke formats in the past but only because of additional combo enablers that my Yugioh friends have no knowledge of unless it's a really weird combo piece that they have a chance of spotting by how janky it reads (Lotus Field). Otherwise the answer to every mediocre looking card is "it's good if it combos with something" and then take a 50/50 guess on whether it does.
@@ilyafoskin thanks for the feedback. Really thought out, and I’ll take this into account for future videos.
A battle cry in Hearthstone is not when it enters the battlefield. A battle cry is only triggered when you play the card from hand.
Fair enough 😅
yorin is my flicker deck commander because its fun as a flicker on a creature it neat
And super fun
one way I thought thought knot could be good is, if you have a way to exile it like the thumbnail, it's giving them a card to discard.
Yea that’s another way to look at it if they have no cards in hand it’s almost a free roll
@@TheOneJameYT it would have been fun in my alchemy deck, wich used cards that when an oponen discards a card you get a copy, and to make up for the lack of cards for oponent to discard, I used bounce and cards taht gave oponent cards too :> SO that would have been perfect for the deck.
@@wolfwing1 yea it would’ve been!
Man LITERALLY has the Eye of Ugin on the screen and gets the play WRONG
I meant to say TKS on turn 2 is from eye of Ugin and Eldrazi temple lol
JUSTICE FOR REAPER OF THE WILDS 😭
I put this one in there for you guys!!
Giving him tks without format knowledge is unfair (also you can't play 2 eye of ugin, it's legendary). Also doesn't still see t1 play
Regisaur was also part of Hogaak summer towards the tail end as an incredible plan b
Every card I give is a little unfair since there’s no context, that’s part of the fun of seeing pro players’ evaluations!
I think that's just a poor premise then. There's a massive difference between cards being good because of low card quality in a given format and cards being good because of the actual broken enabler. Giving eye of ugin for example would be much more agreeable to me. This card is actually just unplayable now that eye is not legal, so pretty unfair heuristic
While a couple of these may have been unfair with the card alone, I assume if he asked 'Can you cheat this out?' then you would have told him about the synergy. The companion is still a little absurd to me though. Can you use its effect multiple times a game? I think that was my incorrect assumption that it could only be used once.
You can use the effect multiple times per game and even loop them!
You can only summon it from exile to your hand once per game, however it's bounce effect triggers every time it enters the battlefield so if you bounce it with another card then you can just loop it and whatever broken etb effect creatures you have on the board with it
these videos are real cool to see how people see cards. even in magic itself there are really powerful cards and mana sometime plays a part and sometimes not. a few notes Eye of ugin is legendary so you can only have one on the board at a time and it would never make the card free even if you could you would have to pay the mana symbol. also speed is not the same for the games though not seer is still really good even on turn 4 or on curve just know what they have and taking something away can make or brake a game most destroy all card cost 4 or more and just taking that away is super good food for thought for everyone
Shuffling an 80 card deck.. couldn't tell you how that feels as a commander player that plays land tutors lol
Haha I get that same feeling
I play Magic and I STILL thought Thought-Knot was trash. It's fun seeing people try to rate Magic cards because there's so many crazy synergies they're just not aware of that can boost a card from pack filler to being on a ban list.
Yea Magic has so many formats within the game that making these videos is pretty hard. I should’ve done a better job explaining the formats and why this card went from really good synergistically, to being power crept after modern horizons.
I mean, it kinda is. It's only good when you can Eldrazi it out way ahead of curve, which is a) really unlikely with only 4 copies of Eldrazi temple per deck, and b) not a very good plan even if the Mana was still consistent, just because the deck doesn't get enough cards on that level. It's very 2016, and also Eye of ugin being banned makes it a lot worse. This saw very little standard play.
Never played Magic and only got one wrong (the Sky Nomad). Though honestly I would have gotten two wrong if I didn't remember Jame mentioning that Reaper of the Wilds was bad in a previous video. In my defense for Sky Nomad I assumed that returning in Magic would be like returning in Yugioh, i.e. when a monster banished by Timebreaker Magician returns to the field it can't activate it's on summon effect.
Yea in Magic even a creature “returning” to the battlefield still triggers it’s on summon effects! Yorion is awesome.
I've been a tournament-player for over 10 years (more close to 20) when Yorion released and I also got it wrong.
Pretty much everybody did.
Even when it saw play I was still sceptical if it was really good, or just you know....people are stupid.
Yorion was only banned for taking to long to shuffle. Not for being too good. Also nothing wrong with companions.
It was also good, and more companions have gotten banned for power level reasons (Lurrus)
Just as a note -- m19 had llanowar elves so regisaur had ways to get out on t2 for a short time.
I wasn't sure if that was in Standard or if it was only in Pioneer once Regisaur came out. I could be wrong though.
@@TheOneJameYT m19 had elves, both 19 and 20 were in standard for like ~2mo so not super long
Something else about Yorion is that there's so many cards in magic, and there's a lot of redundancy. It's not a drawback to play 20 more cards if those 20 cards are just as good as the first 60. Yorion decks usually aren't trying to combo off, just play a controlling game, and always having access to an extra card that threatens to make you go over the top at any point is way too strong. Magic is inherently a resources based game, and every inch counts. An 8 card starting hand is much much better than a 7 card hand
Yep exactly
He got Thought-Knott Seer right "unless you have a way to cheat it out" Eye of Ugin counts as cheating.
But he seems way too focused on statlines, which are a huge deal in Hearthstone, but only matter in low-power interaction formats like Standard.
Also, Sheoldred is Legacy playable, bordeline Vintage playable in black decks. Its not like, Orcish Bowmasters good, but it punishes the powerful draw spells and works well with your own draw spells (especially The One Ring). Not really fair to compare it to a borderline-standard-playable beater.
I agree he got it right when he said "if you can cheat it out." This isn't meant to purposely fool the player, it's meant to get them to talk about their logic and thought process while having a little fun, and that's interesting! And comparing the 4/5 stat lines of different creatures is a reasonable thing to do, and I even explained the power level of Sheoldred compared to the others. If I explained every single nuance with the cards I'm giving the guests, the video would be way too long and not as engaging.
the only question is why put Rotting Regisur in a deck when you could put in colossal dreadmaw? Thats all you need in a card so powerful even if you arnt in green its worth putting in.
Colossal Dreadmaw is ALWAYS better than the alternative
Soon the YGO, MTG and Hearthstone communities will be so in tune that we'll just be able to say "battlecry" and people will know.
I hope so!!