Review of R.F. Kuang's BABEL || No Spoilers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2022
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Rebecca F. Kuang, 'Goodness, Beauty, and Truth: The Value of Art in Times of Crisis' • Rebecca F. Kuang, 'Goo...
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This channel and your review style is a major inspiration for me! Thanks!
Aw, thank you so much! I’m honored!
Thank you for your measured take on this!
Thanks, Allen! I appreciated your encouragement!
Excellent review. I loved the book, but I agree with you completely agree with you on the author's reliance on telling versus showing. As you mentioned, it was most evident in the friendships of the four students. We were told how close they were, but we were barely shown that. We were shown a lot of squabbling so I didn't believe the characters were close, especially Letty. But I think the other things the book did with the themes was so successful that it compensated for weaknesses of some of the characterizations. It's easier to look past some of the weaknesses when the strengths are so compelling.
Thank you so much for sharing that, Andrew! Babel seems to be a passion project regarding the themes of colonization, racism, violence, and language. Wonderful hearing your thoughts!
Great talk. The idea of belonging and the conflicted feeling of being in a system sounds like it would be right up my alley.
Thank you! I liked that too and how an academic utopia can suddenly reveal itself as a racist prison.
I'm a bit late to this, but thank you for the helpful review, Johanna! I am keen to follow Kuang's progress as writer since I enjoyed some aspects of The Poppy War Trilogy, and a book that includes linguistic themes is definitely going to pique my curiosity. Also, I do love Oxford. I appreciate hearing about your experience with the book!
Thank you, Philip! I did think of you with all the language conversations, which were interesting. I’d love to hear your thoughts, especially since you love Oxford. I appreciate you watching and commenting!
Very interesting review! I am very excited to read this book. I have almost only heard rave reviews so I appreciate your nuanced review!
Thank you, Johan! I’m really looking forward to your review on this one!
I really can't wait to pick this one up! Thank you so much for your spoiler free review! =) It was interesting to hear your pros and cons about the book. It's always good to know what you're getting yourself into.
Thank you so much! I look forward to hearing your thoughts once you finish! 😊
Great review! This is a book I am planning to get to at some point , but I'm not nessesarely in a hurry. I really appreciate this nuanced review.
Thank you, Jake! I look forward to hearing your thoughts!
Thanks for your honesty in this review, in talking about the things that didn't work for you. I'm looking forward to reading this later this month!
Thank you, Josh! I hope you enjoy it and look forward to hearing your thoughts!
Thank you, Johanna, for this very nuanced and considered review! As somebody who has a mix of languages and cultures in her background, and also having translated texts myself I'm very interested in this. So, I really appreciate your insights and indepth review!
I have so much respect for your skill translating text! That has to be one of the most powerful talents a person can have. Thank you so much, Angela!
Wonderful review Johanna !
Thank you, Alicia! My favorite parts of this book were parts that reminded me of our translation discussion. 😊
Excellent review, Johanna! I think it’s difficult to read a book without comparing it to the works that came before, and I enjoyed hearing how this one differed from The Poppy War. I’m going into Babel with tempered expectations, but I’m hoping to find some elements I’ll enjoy!
Thank you, Sarah! I think there's much to appreciate even with the things I wished were executed differently. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and hope you enjoy it!
Great video! You really nailed the concept for this story.
Thank you, Jeremy!
@@Johanna_reads You're welcome.
This was a great review Johanna! I haven’t read the Poppy War series, because I just wasn’t sure it was my cup of tea. This book however sounds amazing!
I hope you enjoy it, Chas! Thanks for watching!
I plan on reading it by the end of the year ! Thanks for the review!
Thank you for watching! I hope you enjoy it!
I just finished and I completely agree that there did needed to be more showing - especially for those moments where we’re supposed to care for the characters, as you said.
I appreciate you sharing your agreement with me. Thank you!
Thanks, Johanna, for this perfectly balanced review. I'm about halfway through now, and agree with everything you're saying. I was thinking about this yesterday, wondering why I was having a hard time connecting and feeling anything, and I realized the times I was most engaged were when she'd tell us the characters were growing closer...but then like you're saying she never actually develops that. I love the themes, and I think that could have made it a 5 star book for me, if she'd shown them not just friendly but somewhat obsessed with each other (like I think most of us get in college--I want to relive that!) But at this point I'm at around 3.5, and considering DNF'ing. Not sure how much more I'll get from the second half than I did the first.
Wow, it really does sound like you’re having the same exact struggles I had! I’m sorry it’s not the best reading experience, and I appreciate your thoughts so much!
I am late to comment here though I watched this review a while ago...and I have been CONSTANTLY referring to this brilliant review by you Johanna. I referred to it just yesterday in chat I was participating in on Tori's channel. I refer to it so often because of your thoroughness, outstanding insights, the level of professionalism, objectivity, fairness, and balance of this review of a book that didn't completely work for you. I keep referring to this as one of the best reviews I've watched recently because it's no doubt difficult to make a review like this of a very popular book, that you weren't completely sold on.Kudos to you Johanna. It just speaks to what an excellent reviewer you are, and why we love watching your channel. A great review can lead readers to the book, even if the reviewer didn't personally love the book, when the review is done well. And this review of your was exceptional. You have definitely gotten me very interested in checking out this book. Thank you for this! Looking forward to your next review!
P.L., I cannot express how honored I am by this comment! I greatly admire your written reviews, and so this encouragement is all the more meaningful to me coming from you! It's also meaningful because I have received some feedback that I might be a little too careful in how I present my criticisms. Your compliment makes me feel validated in my efforts to consider the multiple perspectives and experiences an author's work can elicit. I sincerely hope you enjoy the book if you do pick it up! Thank you for making my day!
I'm not gonna read this until October, but I'm really looking forward to the themes in this book, especially about revolution and the violence surrounding it. Great review!
Thank you, Pete! I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts when you get to it!
Nice review, Johanna. I've heard a lot of hype for Babel, and your review tempers that hype a little. I don't plan on reading this book anytime soon, but when I do, I can go into it with realistic expectations. Thanks!
Thank you, Christopher! I’m so glad if the review was helpful!
Go Johanna!
Thank you! :)
Excellent review, Johanna! Watching this a few days late but this was such a great video! I really appreciate all of the constructive criticism you gave in this book and your delivery was so well done as it felt insightful and balanced, which is extremely hard to do for a book that is as huge in the fantasy community as this one is. I haven’t read any of RF Kuang’s books, but I’m looking forward to doing so soon! The question is: do I start with Poppy War or Babel…we shall see lol
Thank you so much, Alex! I’ve been working on the skill of figuring out exactly what is or isn’t working for me in a book and trying to frame it in a way that’s helpful for potential readers. Your kind feedback means a lot to me!
I think The Poppy War is more character driven, but it follows a traumatized, deplorable character based on the historical figure, Mao Zedong. The third book was a bit clunky plotwise, and the dialogue is a little YA in tone, but I thought the trilogy was entertaining overall. It also brought attention to a part of Chinese history I don’t think gets much attention here in the U.S., such as the Rape of Nanking. Babel is less character-driven, in my opinion, but might be the better option since it’s a standalone (if it remains a standalone). I’m sorry if that’s not much help!
Loved hearing your thoughts on this book! I loved it, but I did kinda struggle to start with but really got into it as it went on.
Thank you so much! I much prefer enjoying the second half more than the first than the other way around! 😁
@@Johanna_reads me too!
Great to hear your thoughts on this. You did a great job expressing the themes and Robin as a character, it was a difficult thing to truncate for me hah. Boy was the voice ever heavy lol I was like I geeeet it. Seems like we do have the same gripes!
Thank you, Fraser! I loved your review and you got me thinking more about the “commercial” prose with the footnotes as attempting an academic presentation. I hadn’t thought as deeply about the intention to appear more literary or academic, but it didn’t work for me in that regard, and I didn’t care for it being used as a device to point out every theme, reference, and character info readers should know. 😅
@@Johanna_reads yeah that was rough, I felt like they thought the reader was an idiot or something, and I guess that’s what commercial fiction has to be doing, but it’s sure annoying. And the annoying thing about it was it’s some random kid who asked everyone how they got to that point, yet it’s solely from Robin’s perspective even though he didn’t write it, and the writer obviously isn’t privy to all the stuff that’s be in the book anyway, so it’s I don’t know what that’s all about. A lot of clumsy things about it tbh.
I loved The Poppy War Trilogy. I'll have to go check out your review. This review reminded me to read Babel. It is now on my TBR. Thanks!
I hope you enjoy it, Layla! The more time apart from the book, the more my criticisms stand out to me. I actually enjoyed The Poppy War more though I have the unpopular opinion of not being crazy about the last book. I loved your discussion with Steven Erikson last weekend and always enjoy your insights!
Thank you for this balanced review and sharing your honest perspective.
Personally heavy-handedness of the theming and lacklustre characterisation were some of my issues with Poppy War (Book 1, didn't continue) as well.
Thank you for watching and sharing that! I think Kuang has shown growth as a writer while still having some of those similar approaches.
@@Johanna_reads Very very cautious about reading Babel and waiting for more reviews like yours. The moment people go 'best book evaa', I somehow retreat into a shell (even if the praise is justified!) 😊
On an unrelated note, I have been thinking about female-centric vs feminist works of fantasy. Is there a clear distinction in your mind between these two labels? Would you be willing to recommend a fantasy book/series which resonated with you as feminist literature?
Great critiques, that helps me sets my expectations. I don’t know if I mind tell > show but I actually don’t think I’ve given it much thought. It sounds like the result is just not a strong attachment to plot and characters?? I’ve definitely felt that before!
I’m so excited for the language aspect since I’m studying Spanish and French.
I look forward to hearing your thought, Jak! The language discussions in the book are ones I’ve become more interested in over this last year. Yes, I did struggle connecting with the characters, and I always try to go back and understand what parts interfered with that connection and why. I didn’t have any major issues with the plot. Much of it was kind of what I expected, but I’ve also read The Poppy War trilogy, so I knew going in how far Kuang is willing to go with abrupt shifts and other things I won’t mention 😅.
Great review, I’m probably picking this up in September or October; very excited for it, but definitely trying to manage my expectations a bit now ;)
I hope you it, Chris! Thanks for watching!
Thank you for not jumping on the hype train. I very much appreciate a balanced view.
Thank you, Penny!
Sounds good. I liked the first Poppy War book and have been meaning to finish the trilogy. This one looks really interesting
I hope you enjoy all her books! I had some mixed feelings about that trilogy though I preferred her character work in the trilogy compared to Babel.
Wonderful review, I have the hardest time doing spoiler free. Babel sounds really good as I love anything to do with language! and if there's going to be fantasy, some history in there is really cool. I am trying so hard to get into fantasy, but you will be glad to know I am halfway through a 500-page fantasy novel as we speak. I'll share more when I get to the review.
What? I must know what fantasy you're reading, and it sounds like a tome! So excited to hear your review on whatever it is! Than you, Brandon!
Great review! I keep on wanting to check this book out, but a lot of people have very reasonable critiques of some of the painful shortcomings. The overall message also gives me pause, especially with the subtitle. Nonetheless, the realistic, yet fantastical setting is great.
While this book wasn't for me, it certainly has a huge audience! The Oxford setting and subtitle were bold choices. I hope you enjoy it if you pick it up!
Excellent review, Johanna! I think you articulated yourself super well, love this balanced and thoughtful approach.
I personally loved the book, but I can totallly see why this won't work for a lot of readers. I am frankly surprised by the immense hype, because I don't think this book has mass appeal. The deep dive into the linguistics, the dark academia vibe and the overt messaging can be very hit or miss for people, I'd assume.
Also, I totally get what you mean about the character dynamics not feeling super genuine/well developed. It's kinda weird that I loved this book as much as I did, because I am normally a very character driven reader and these types of things can really make or break a book for me.
I guess I just really latched onto the story and was fascinated by the whole discussion about translation, (cultural) identity, colonialism and racism.
And I also loved that every single action had serious repercussions for not only our characters, but for the world at large. Like, the stakes were so high in this book and that made for a very compelling reading experience for me.
Loved hearing your thoughts, thanks for sharing!! 🤩
Thank you, Esmay! I always love reading your thoughts and think you explained beautifully why this story is gaining mass appeal even though you wondered how that would be the case. I think those are all wonderful reasons to love the story--the discussions on racism, translation, identity, colonialism, etc.--those are all such important discussions, and it's inspiring to see the passion Kuang put into those topics regardless of how I as an individual reader experienced the story. ♥️
The plot (and the inherent intrigue of translation itself) definitely carried the book over the characters. One thing I liked that this book did was give practical, material public facing value to things that generally have a more abstract value like silver.
Hi 👋 thank you for the review of the book. I’ve purchased this books hoping it will be good read for me 🤞 happy reading to you!! 🦋🍃🍂
Thank you, Safina! I hope you enjoy it! Happy reading to you too! 🤍
I'm very nervous to read this. I'm not sure if this will be for me (esp with your point on the narrative voice and the showing/telling), but regardless, I did buy the book. I'm planning to read it when I go back home to Oxford. Great review, Johanna.
I hope this helps with expectations going in, Zara! I would love to hear your thoughts on how well you feel she captured Oxford and the historical aspects in addition to everything else. Thanks for watching!
How did I even choose where this deep dive into this channel would lead?
I really love how the these brilliant authors portray the tragic character on the other side of the line, so to speak, can remain completely ignorant of everything the support characters risk and accomplish for another's benefit, spinning around what's so personal and selfless.
I think small details really sparkle in those quiet moments of our favorite characters torment.
Thanks for reading with such great accuracy and exposition.
I appreciate that! Thank you!
I just finished the book and I did enjoy it.
I also enjoyed your review and I will be subscribing to your channel 😊
Thank you so much, Sean! I appreciate the kind feedback and am glad you enjoyed the book!
Wow you gave away so much of the plot
I don't think I did, but some are more sensitive to plot details than others.
Thanks for the review Johanna. I have ordered this book a while back but unfortunately the Amazon India is saying that the book is available only from October 15th and the delivery date is one week from then. I am so sad but have no choice but to wait. I ordered the Kindle version but for some reason its all misaligned and not at all readable. I saw in one of the Discord discussions that RF Kuang is quite direct in terms of exposure and narration and doesn't believe much in textual subtlety. I had started that lecture of hers a while back but didn't get around to finishing it. Will definitely get back to it.
I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts, Angie! Thanks for stopping by! ♥️
What's up! I think Babel's theme is super interesting. I think some things traditionally associated with theme are extremely heavy handed, which leaves no opportunity for analysis for the reader. However, I think things like revolutionary strategy, which are traditionally associated with plot and not associated with theme are actually the theme in this book. Conversely, things like colonialism, which is almost always associated with theme is actually more of the plot here. While the book is a defense of violence, it is not clear on what types of violence are and are not defendable. There are pros and cons to this approach for sure, and one you touched on is that the plot is often super obvious. It reminded me of how telegraphed the plot was in 1984. But yea, I overall liked it.
Greg! So happy to read a comment from you 😊! I'm glad you liked the book, especially since you didn't care for The Poppy War. I feel like Kuang's style is very similar in this one, and she also addresses similar themes. Themes are certainly captured in the plot as well as characters. I just didn't feel particularly inspired by the way they were presented in this book.
I am going to Look into this Babel when I get out of the Malazan World🙂. Deadhouse Landing is Great, I have now started Kellanved's Reach.
Wow, you're really on a Malazan roll! Thank you for sharing and stopping by! 😊
@@Johanna_reads This Malazan world is addictive.😅
I am very interested in reading Babel, specifically I am interested in the portrayal of a academic life for international students, having been an international student myself I would like to see how The author talks about that experience. Thank you for the review! It was great!
Thank you, Diana! The experiences they shared as international students was explored a little bit, but they were mostly an isolated cohort. There's a footnote in the book explaining that was a Babel strategy to keep them under control. Another area where I feel like that was more told than shown.
@@Johanna_reads ohh that is a shame! It would be such a great opportunity to explore that further!! Thank you for letting me know!
Great video Johanna! Babel sounds interesting but I did not like the Poppy War trilogy at all and so I’ve been hesitant about reading it. Telling and not showing generally bothers me quite a bit and if there are not the strongest character connections then I do not think I’ll be planning on reading this book. Too many other books I’m dying to read anyways. Hope you have a good day!
Thank you so much for watching, Drew! That approach did feel excessive to me, and I think I’m in the minority in not deeply connecting to the characters. I had mixed feelings about The Poppy War trilogy and think this series would probably appeal most to those who were huge fans!
Just finished the book and I liked it overall, some of it was fantastic some I felt wasn’t polished enough and the difference between those were jarring. But as a project and where it dared to go was very good. Definitely a book I will think about for a while.
I agree! Thank you so much for sharing!
Great review! 🙂👌🏻 I’ve translated a book from German into English (nightmare job, never again 😜), so I’m very interested.
The only thing that makes me hesitate: I know everyone loved it, but The Poppy War really didn’t click with me. And Babel sounds, at least the beginning, quite similar. Would you say that it’s quite similar, or has Kuang’s writing & exposition changed/evolved since Poppy War?
That is so impressive, Matt! Translation of fiction is such an incredible skill.
I actually had mixed feelings about The Poppy War. I liked the first two books and didn't care for choices in the third or the ending. I think Kuang has grown as a writer in Babel, but I did have the struggles I mentioned. Hope you enjoy it if you get to it!
@@Johanna_reads Good lord, I translated an exhibition catalogue, not a novel! 😆 I’m definitely not good or patient enough for that. 😉
Exactly what I needed today, Johanna. I’ve been curious on this one. I personally don’t think I’ll like Kuang’s writing, I haven’t read Poppy War because of that. The topic and setting of this sounds really cool though. I might give it a try. Is the word “philology” present? That’d probably sell me, and really disappoint me if it’s not there considering time and setting. Cheers!
Philology is mentioned! Now you have to read it! Haha! I’m not sure you’d be particularly inspired by Kuang’s writing style. She does cover interesting ideas and a passion for the meanings of words. I’d love to hear your thoughts if you read it!
@@Johanna_reads Oh, now I do! Should be interesting.
You easily sound the nicest in your critiques of anybody on booktube, it would be impossible for anybody to take offense with you. This book is getting a lot of hype for sure, but I'm still waiting for more balanced opinions like this to emerge before making the call! Thanks for the review.
Thank you, Danny! That means a lot to me. I hope this review balances the very high expectations in a helpful way, and it’s a huge achievement if I struck that balance!
Awesome review, Johanna. I really enjoy the way you break down the pros and cons of a novel, especially with something that can fall so easily into the hype machine. I will be reading this in October, I'm excited for it!
Thank you, Kyle! I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it in October!
What edition did you get?
UK Hardcover looks a bit different
It’s a U.S. Harper Voyager edition I got at Barnes and Noble. This is one of the only covers in which I prefer the U.S. edition over the UK one, though both are nice!
I had to stop watching this because I started reading Babel last night and giving away the main character’s discovery in the first bit of the video is a major spoiler.
I’m sorry if that spoiled anything for your reading experience!
Great review my friend!! I’m fairly certain this
book just isn’t for me
Thank you, Andrew! I'm happy if this review was helpful. I would encourage you more towards Warlord Chronicles and can't wait to hear your thoughts once you start that series!
@@Johanna_reads I’m excited to start winter king next week I hope!!!
I had very similar critiques as you. Lots of telling rather than showing, the narrator driving some of the points home with a hammer, plus I felt like some of the characters were flat, their supposedly close relationships not shown on page, and overall it didn’t work for me as a work of fiction, especially in the fantasy genre. The insane hype didn’t do this book a favour in my opinion.
Thanks for sharing your criticisms. I agree with you, and it’s too bad because otherwise, there so many great discussion points. Glad it’s working for some readers though!
I've had a similar experience than you with this book, but the overt narrative voice you're talking about actually started bothering me much more in the second part, especially Letty's Interlude (*SPOILER* when Kuang's telling us she's really not wicked but does everything to portray her as cruel and insensitive - Letty's whole storyline was difficult for me to believe, it went way too far) and everytime she would make it sound like Mandarin is a superior language or that China was the ultimate victim when it also was an Empire at that time (which apparently contradicts The Poppy War discussions around political regimes, but I haven't read this trilogy). I enjoyed many aspects, but those important historical references lacked nuance for me, and it ended up disappointing me. Because of that, it read much younger than what I'd had expected from an adult novel. :/
All fair criticisms! I'm sorry it was a disappointing read. It's left an even more bitter aftertaste for me now that I've had more distance from the book. I can also see what you mean and agree about it reading younger than expected. What a bummer! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts!
I dnfed after chapter 10. Tried reading and listening to it. Found it quite boring and not much was going on, it was more about themes and mental struggle. Thought I would just listen to it to the end, but after browsing social media and reading news while listening to chapters 9 and 10, I came to the conclusion, that this book is just not for me :(
I hear you. I told some friends that if I were someone who dnf'd books, I would've dnf'd Babel at that point as well. I thought it was okay by the time I finished, but it's failed to leave an impression on me.
I felt quite bad, since I really don't dnf books, this was only the 4th I dnfef ever. Too bad you don't include a spoiler section about how it ends. It was hard to find a summary of it, only found bits and pieces, I was curious what actually happens, but couldn't read 300 pages in order to find out.
Btw I didn't read The Poppy War, I own it and I think I would like it, fantasy a is favorite genre of mine, I'm sure there is much action going on. Btw in Babel I felt too much going on off screen, I think maybe in the way you said the narrator was telling us what happened.
But I'm a bit unsure about her next book Yellowface, if it's again about themes and colonialism only, dunno
@@cinxschannel9937 I don't know if you're familiar with the myth of the Tower of Babel, but it's kind of dead giveaway of what happens at the end. There's a whole lecture with one of the professors talking about the most dangerous word to use with silver magic and the power of the Babel tower (can't remember how early in the book that happened). It was predictable, but she set it up well, I suppose.
@@Johanna_reads I think I got to read that lecture about the dangerous word and I did read what happens with the tower, that someone kills someone, and I read the epilogue.
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