I mean I agree with everything you’re saying but crafting in games such as Minecraft and Terraria are (in my opinion) rewarding because through all of the exploration and fighting you were finally able to become stronger or more able to create things. And to me that is a great way to make a good crafting system
I agree, Terraria especially makes crafting feel important. For example, crafting the Terra Blade for the first time with all those insanely complicated recipes somehow feels really, really good. It brings weapons from all areas of your playthrough up to that point into one powerful weapon. And it gives a purpose to travelling through the underground jungle looking for spores and stingers, or getting hellstone, or beating the mech bosses, and mothrons during the eclipse. Idk it just seems like Terraria implemented the crafting system extremely well, dare I say better than Minecraft even.
I think these games have a certain aspect of crafting that makes them feel more enjoyable. The thing about these games is that they require you to go out of your way to explore to find crafting materials, instead of just putting all the ore and other materials in some mineshaft. Something else about the materials is that they do not respawn, so you cant stay there. These two mechanics seem to encourage players to go explore, and get moving, which gives the play incentive and improves the games as a whole.
I think it helps if the game already has a focus on you being able to edit and change the world; terraria, Minecraft, and other (usually voxel-based) games with destructible/buildable terrain are the kind that fits this vibe. Generic open-world games don’t necessarily, and it just feels shoehorned in to fit the trend. In those games most of the useful items could just be acquirable through killing specific bosses or enemies or exploring zones, as one time rewards, and would work better and simpler that way.
honestly, I feel like the best crafting system is the cooking system from Breath of the Wild. it feels fun, there are minimal menus to traverse, and there's always something new to cook
Fun fact: Minecraft's name didn't originally mean mining and crafting, it just meant "mining". Minecraft as a word was like Warcraft, Starcraft, witchcraft etc.
@@rowboat10 I realised that when Jacksepticeye went to a cave in Minecraft and asked "Is this one of those minecrafts?" Also the name was created before there was a crafting system, so it wouldn't make sense if it meant crafting
I feel like by intention the crafting system of games include the gathering resources. I’m just going to talk about Minecraft for this example, I feel like it’s crafting system is perfect as is. To separate the crafting part of Minecraft and the gathering part is kind of strange to me, it’s kind of like complaining that the main menu of a game isn’t super fun. The crafting system in Minecraft was created around the gathering part of it and the crafting table is a menu to use what you get into something. If it was made to where you have to press several buttons in order to craft instead of just one it’d get tedious quickly. Minecraft’s quick and easy crafting system so that you can go back to gathering is good as is and I’m honestly having a hard time seeing why you dislike it. It’s really not tedious at all and it’s an understandable way to connect the gathering materials part of the game to the building or mining parts of it
I don't get it. "you have to Google stuff" the video says. But you don't. You literally have a crafting book of all recipes. If you have the items the game can arrange them itself.
Hey man, thanks for the well thought out reply. I've decided to make another video entirely critiquing the crafting system in Minecraft--and I change my stance a bit as well (but stay tuned for the full story 😊) But thanks for making me question myself--it's always important to offer counterpoints! I truly appreciate it, and thank you for watching.
Recently i played Minecraft with a Thaumcraft mod and the whole gameplay was crafting things, to craft way better things. I donno, it was really hard for me to find a goal in vanilla minecraft. When I installed this mod i got just what i needed. You have a planty of cool things to craft, and when you do this, you'll get more of better staff to craft. BUT! You have to explore the minecraft world to find the ingredients. Maybe that's just my issue, but in vanilla I rarely treveled, and droped the game just as i built a house couse i didn't know what to do next. Well, i knew i need a nether portal and blaze rods, but i neaded to prepare for going for them. With the mod I had a progression and knew i was ready to go to... wherever I needed to go. And, yeah, there were some fun crafting mechanics, not just "press a button"
When you were talking about the game that's more about crafting then any other. I thought you were going to say potioncraft. Tldr: potioncraft is a game entirely about brewing which actually delivers on the witch/alchemist fantasy. By having you experiment to discover new potions and the best recipes to make them. Also, the addition of potion customization really appeals to me because I don't want to make a "strong potion of explosion" instead I can look through my receipe book and find "Goban's Gobtastic Explosion Juice" and brew up some of that. Long description: almost all of the time is spent on the crafting system. It's the only game I've ever finished crafting a potion and said "that was alright but, I can do better" and then remade the potion with a different recipe so I'd have a more efficient one for the future. Also, the idea of having a map which represents the space of possibilities for potions and then ingredients move you through that landscape is genius. The fact that it takes actual skill to make the most efficient/best potions is the icing on the cake. It's also the only game that's ever made me go "hm, what should I put into my potion next. Maybe some terraria? No, that'll ruin it, maybe some goblin shrooms? Haha! That's perfect" 10/10 would play again, in fact I'm going to go play it now that I'm thinking about it. I forgot I never finished making Life salt.
The crafting system in fantasy life is unique Each time you craft you have to preform a mini game of a set number of random actions as quickly as possible to get the best quality results
My experience of crafting in Minecraft: sharing recipes with friends, feeling I have learned something, and bragging about how many recipes we can memorize. The cases of crafting that are the most fun are when it has lots of layers, so getting the last item means being able to merge items like 5 times in a row to finally get the thin you worked so long for.
honestly I miss having to figure out crafting recipes on my own in minecraft. Its like a nostalgic part of my childhood ill never get back. Ill ever accidentally make my first torch or my first wooden axe ever only to never make one again
Personally, I feel like Monster Hunter: World (or any MH game, for that matter) actually does have a fairly solid take on a crafting system. Of course, I still wouldn't call it perfect, but I enjoy how it works: You hunt a monster for the first time, get to see the awesome gear it gives you, and see what you need to gather to make it. The thing where MHW differs from other crafting systems, however, is that the materials you need to gather are actually *from* the monsters themselves. This encourages you to get back into the action, hunt that same monster some more, and improve your skills at the game in the meantime. And then, of course, there's also the aspect of getting certain materials by breaking different parts on the monster, which often requires skill and consideration. I dunno, I just think it's neat how the crafting system in World encourages you to continue the action and improve your skills at the game to get better rewards for yourself. The only thing necessary is beating the monster for the first time to unlock the recipes, there's no real grinding just for the crafting recipes themselves. Anyways, I wrote a lot more than I was expecting to here.
an idea, building off the wicher, You find the blueprint for crafting bring it to the maker and then sometimes he may say "Oh I am short on this, could you grab a few of these for me?" that way sometimes, you still have to go out and find things but not... every... time...
I think crafting is overused and kinda sucks, but there are people who enjoy it. Not me, but one of my friend's favourite parts of Fallout (4+76) is the crafting, even though he admits it's tedious. I think game designers should make it fun to craft, and make it less integral to the gameplay, so I can spend my hours slaying Scorched Beasts and Deathclaws instead of sorting and scrapping armour and weapons. P.S. nice to see you back with videos Meraki, and still love the outro :D
If I have to think about two games/game series where crafting was really fun and rewarding, it would be Fantasy Life and the Atelier series (both JRPGs). I'd encourage you to make some research about those titles. For Fantasy Life, while it can definitely get repetitive, I've always loved when there was some added gameplay to crafting something, and that your skill (and your character's job level still) impacted the quality of the gear. It's just a little minigame, but the fact that most of the stuff you can gather out in the field is also a little minigame makes for a very nice gameplay loop. Only problem I had with this though, is that you had to change your job through a short but tedious process each time you wanted to gather/craft at max potential. About the Atelier Series, it really depends on the subseries, and my favourite in that crafting aspect would definitely be the Mysterious subseries, which had an amazing puzzle based crafting system. Especially in Atelier Sophie and Atelier Lydie & Suelle, learning how deep the crafting can get by yourself, experimenting with different positions or adding order for the ingredients gave something that could break the limits of what you thought you could work out. For example: an item has a several properties that only get added if you reach a certain number for some elements, and almost each time I tried reaching max potential for an item, I managed to do it after some long but fun experimentation, and it always felt rewarding. After that property thing, there's even some added depth with ingredient traits, ingredient traits combination to get better traits etc... It's such a shame though, that gathering is reduced to going out in the fields pressing a button to gather stuff or beating enemies for their drops, cause if gathering was as fun as crafting, those games would definitely be the go-to games for deep crafting (they are already, but only if you can stand slice of life with long ass character interactions, basic stories and meh gathering). Fortunately, Atelier Ryza has tried to add depth in gathering by giving different ingredients depending on the tool you use, but we're still not there.
I’m very glad TH-cam recommended your Minecraft music analysis video, because you’re a very underrated TH-camr. Your content is way too good for only 30ish k subs, so hopefully you get a lot more soon. Cheers.
I believe terraria is rewarding with its crafting system because while you’re mining/exploring almost everything you get can be used to create something else
The best crafting system I've seen are the ones in the TerraFirmaCraft mod for Minecraft, where crafting happens through methods like melting metal to cast it into new tools or putting iron into a bloomery to create wrought iron. It has an anvil system that feels kinda puzzle-y and more fun, though the downside to these is that it makes the game _very_ grindy at certain points, like when you need to make a ton of iron plates for a blast furnace. That being said, I do kinda agree that it seems like crafting systems are just put in games now because it's trendy, and I think they should be more carefully considered.
9:30 Yeah, in the community we call that "modded minecraft", one example for this might be "GT:NH" and it's a literal pain in the ass, it takes like at least 9000 hours to craft up everything to finish the game
There was a game called Fantasy Life some while ago on the 3DS that had a pretty Ok-ish crafting. The material gathering was the same, but to actually craft you had to complete this minigame that could actually improve the weapon if you perform well enough. _and that one crafting quest from Dragon Age Origins that made the salesman hate you because de smith took too long to make the dragon armor and misses the other commissions.. Aaahhh good times_
Old rpg ex: Baldur's Gate has no craft system, base attributes in weapon and armor, even so, your character gets powerful with and lvl.. recently games bring loot and 1000 weapon same appearance with different attributes.
I never really realized how bad crafting in most games is! Yeah, crafting in Minecraft can be tedious if you're building a mansion out of red netherbricks, but I feel like it's the best one out there. It can be satisfying, like when you finally get the bow recipe the right way round on the first try.
There's a game called Vintage Story, most people would mistake it for minecraft, but it has an extremely immersive crafting system. Pretty much every medieval trade is simulated well.
I think I'm the only person who doesn't mind these. I don't mind crafting, gear durability, etc. Mostly because I craft a shit ton of stuff in one go, play for hours on end, then craft a new set of gear. One game I'm currently obsessed with, The Long Dark, is 90% crafting in some way: 1)You set up a furnace to cook some bear meat 2) You hunt rabbits for the materials to make the best hats/gloves 3) You harvest the carcass at base and start drying its fur/guts to be usable 4) You then collect your cooked meat 5) Now you spend in-game hours to make knives and hatchets, the rarest tools in the game (rarer than the revolver and rifle ffs) Rinse and repeat just to stay alive, assuming you don't get eaten by a random bear
One game that I find has a different take on crafting is space engineers, instead of crafting a whole block, you mine the ore, refine it, assemble the required components and then weld the blocks up.
Horizon Zero Dawn has a small crafting system that’s not too tedious. You do have to craft ammo but it can be done on the go, if you open up your weapon wheel mid battle then you can make more ammo. It also helps that the materials aren’t the most difficult to find because looting enemies is such a massive part of the gameplay and you’re constantly running into more and more herds.
There are tons of games that try to make the crafting more interesting by putting skill or puzzle type gameplay into crafting and believe me its just more tedium on top of more basic systems. Take cooking in Genshin Impact vs Zelda BOTW. in Zelda I can can just grab my 5 ingredients and cook them up, spamming B to skip the animation and get my completed item. Genshin has a simple timed button press to make an item poorly, decently or perfectly. Once you make something perfectly a few times you can then mass craft that item and skip the timed button press altogether, but those first few times making it are just extra tedium. Another example is CREA. During crafting you get a puzzle like enhancement system added to crafting that lets you use extra collected items to enhance the gear by doing a little semi-random based descisions to balance some arbitrary numbers and its a confusing mess to get used to. Rather than adding to the feel of crafting it adds more tedium once again. The true goal of a crafting mechanic should be to be a reward for collecting things, and not the reason you collect things. For example: Say you added in 100+ secret random doodads to collect throughout your game, why not have that be a/the component of some legendary weapon or item upgrade. If you have each of the dragons in your game drop bones as a thing you can give the player an option to turn them into slightly better arrows. Don't have the player scour a mountainside for rocks so they can level up a skill to get better rocks and then eventually make something. You need to have everything that you make in your crafting system a reward, and not just a stepping stone towards the actual reward.
This is what makes minecraft modpacks amazing. You start with the crafting table, build a machine automatically producing the stuff you need to make better stuff end end up making a reactor combining super expensive stuff to make even more expensive stuff
Please check out the alchemy system in Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Crafting potions and poisons are not menu based. They take time, effort, and focus to be able to do it right and consistently. The closer you are to following the instructions, the more you can get out of your batch. You have to increase heat, time when you do any actions, when you add ingredients, what order you add ingredients, and even manage a hourglass to time everything. This is also on top of you finding the recipes if you don't want to try to discover them for yourself (which the game will record your best attempt with the recipe you did). If you want to read these recipes, you have to teach your character to read or they will just be a jumbled mess of letters.
Absolutely! Yes, thank-you! What annoys me most about the rise of crafting is that it can become shoe-horned into games that simply don't need it, 'Prey' *cough*. In games where you want action and the story to progress, crafting comes along to kill the joy, requiring an inordinate amount of time to wander collecting an unreasonable amount of crap, just to make a few bullets or a small medikit so the actual fun can continue for another, well 5 minutes before it's that time again. Developers, please stop shoving crafting in every bloody game just because it is the current fad. Also, games that traditionally do suit crafting, definitely need to be more creative with how it is implemented, not only in the gathering stage but in the making/building/smithing stage etc. Get the player to be hands on doing it. A very simple, but good example is the picking locks action used by the player in Skyrim. Above all try to do anything to break the repetitive monotony. That is what real world jobs already do to our souls. We play games to get away from that! lol
12:08 you should check out the crafting system for dragon quest 11 (the console/pc versions) It’s really similar to what you were saying in that time stamp and I think you’ll like it. It’s very rewarding too imo
In starve.io, crafting actually adds challenge to the game since when you craft you can do nothing but move around, leaving you vulnerable to mobs and other players.
I thought that I was the only one who think like that, specially about Skyrim's craft system(even if you just hit the ore you will obtain it, it's boring), thanks for the video.
Part of what makes crafting skills less fun than weapon skills in skyrim is that there is no difficulty or stakes to it. You can fight badly or well but there is no player skill in the smithing menu
I think that the crafting system can be better optimized through an addition of a quick craft menu, like Hypixel skyblock. Besides this, I think the game providing you with some sort of map to acquire the needed materialls would really make it far better, as then, crafting would be an exciting quest, instead of boring monotony.
I don’t know if anyone said this but I feel like crafting in games like skyrim should be like how lockpicking is, where you have to actually interact with the lock, or forge in this case to make the best armor and maybe the perks allow the crafting to be easier like how perks allow lockpicking to be easier. For example, you’d have to pour the molten materials, hammer them into place, tie pieces together and if it’s done perfectly you have a better version of an item than just looting it from a chest and if you don’t do so well then the item would suck. I feel like this system would be as rewarding as any other activity, because each of your actions while crafting directly effects how your gameplay with the item will end up.
In all honesty, I don't see how crafting could be a good thing in any games. It gets even more frustrating when you have to wait to craft something, its just grinding.
i think the best crafting system in a game i have ever seen was on that one flashgame "jacksmith". Ignoring the fact that that game is *about* crafting weapons and selling them, the crafting felt fun and inventive with a easy and predicable way to rank skill and improve.
I like having a crafting system but the thing that annoys me the most are: 1. RNG - Ingredients that have a 2% chance to drop. I don't care how good the sword is, I'm not gonna kill 200 monsters to get an ingredient. 2. Too many ingredients - Why does an item need to have 7 ingredients? Ingredients should be 3 at max, two ores and a magic stone.
I like your voice. You have a wide variety of vocabulary and the use of metaphors. The pronunciation is spot on! It is rare to see people having such range of vocab and pronunciation. The word used aren't bombastic either! 😊
Crafting in spiritfarer is awesome, everything is gameplay centred and it ends up feeling very natural and pleasent as you can always get better at the specific process you are trying to do.
One Game that nails Crafting in My Opinion is Satisfactory, the entire Point of the game is to automate everything so you don't need to craft anymore, but if you don't automate you're gonna have a bad time holding down your spacebar for the rest of eternity.
Surprised i diidnt hear a single mention of the atelier games and tge different takes on alchemy I could literally go on a 20 page long guide on just the basics of alchemy on atelier Sophie alchemist of the mysterious book , Your skill tree is you alchemy book of recepies and you proogres trough it by doing what each node says it requires Like crafting a plank with the "flickering light" trait Or defeating a named boss Or geting a particular material Each item in the game has particular stats related to alchemy : -Elemental color -Size -Quality 1-999 -Shape (think Tetris pieces) -Up to four random traits from hundreds available in the game And those traits can combine with others to create more powerful traits -material tags (wood, metal ,ore , paper, gunpowder, elixir, medicine, gem, weapon, weapon material, animal, etc ) The game is a dream come true for item maniacs like me
In all honesty I think Fallout 4's crafting system is pretty great. It ties neatly into the core gameplay loop, it makes meta-sense (you don't use two decanters to make a laser, you make 'crystal' out of decanters, which makes sense for a laser), isnt tedious (you level up your character most via quests and exploring, you only come back to the workbench for a moment once youve gotten materials or a perk that lets you craft better stuff), and feels significant - because yeah, crafting is way more reliable than relying on randomized loot. It sits perfectly in the background of the game.
Team fortress 2 has a cool crafting system, minus the economy. The way you get items is by random drops when playing. You can then smelt the items into metals, metals to better metals, and then back to new weapons or hats. If not for the economy, this would make it so you have to work towards getting the items and feeling satisfied at finally getting the pauper hat you wanted.
Hey Meraki I j wanted to ask if you could make a video about breath of the wild and maybe how it was successful despite breaking the Zelda formula. More of a suggestion than an ask. Anyways I’ll see ya around.
Skyrim, Zelda Botw, Horizon Zero Dawn, Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2, Witcher 3, Fallout, Dead Island, etc, etc, etc... If I have to play pick up sticks one more time in a video game, I'm retiring.
I feel like some games its the entire gameplay such as terria and minecraft but there is also other things that would be better like not having to mine and chop down logs you can just get it from chests once you finish it or that type of thing and also There is a trading game I play where you can trade mine and chop down trees or be a pirate, and so if you want to there is where you just get the doubloons(ingame currency) and trade with other players to get resources and as a pirate you cna do the same thing
My problem with crafting is that there is no challenge tied to the mechanic. No risk, only rewards for clicking that button. So it's just a time sink where all the items you can craft might as well drop out in the world, instead of the materials to make them. Crafting should be some sort of mini game or gameplay mechanic where you can actually fail and lose your precious resources, or where the end products reflect your performance and skill in the crafting game. I used to like crafting back when Skyrim first launched, but then I realized I just enjoyed the dopamine hits and didn't really value my time. If nothing but wasted time is added from having crafting materials drop instead of complete items, then the crafting feature is pointless imo.
As you were talking I thought "What if instead of pressing a button to forge a sword or something, you actually forged it yourself." Like in that one flash game, JackSmith, but YOU the player used the weapons. After going on a journey for materials you prepare your forge and use your own skill to create a weapon. Give crafting actual gameplay instead of just pressing buttons with no thought.
If you want fun progression, RL Craft is a great Minecraft modpack made by Shivaxi you can find on the Twitch app. Progression feels great because it's simple, but REALLY hard. All you need to do is spend XP levels to upgrade the skills, but obtaining the XP is the problem >:) Good luck if you choose to venture this path.
Terraria is a probable exception. Crafting is instant select-from-menu, and the only barrier is availability of ingredients and crafting tools. Ingredient acquisition is the core gameplay loop, which is exploration and grinding mobs for drops a la Diablo, and the more common ingredients are ubiquitous and easy to acquire. Even trying to obtain a singular ingredient will lead you to easily getting side-tracked with other resources. There is barely any story other than "explore, fight, craft, power-up." Factorio takes "avoid crafting" and makes a game out of it. It is impossible to progress without automating the entire crafting tree. Both are examples of minmizing the boring part of crafting: everything other than the output.
I have to disagree with you on this one. I LOVE crafting in games! It can be simplistic like in TES games, or more interesting like in Minecraft, but I still enjoy it. And the more complex it is - the more I enjoy it! When I played Conan Exiles with a bunch of my friends I was leveling in building and crafting (thouh more into building). Eventually a game looked like this: my friends were running around, fighting, gathering stuff, bringing it back to me, and I was mostly staying in the bas building a nice castle and crafting gear for all of us. And I absolutely loved it! As for Minecraft - the most boring part for me is gathering a ton of stuff for my building project.
I think something that sticks out to me here is minecraft has the most logical and bearable system of crafting, but yet its the quickest and least likely to get in your way. I don't think that's a coincidence.
There used to be this game called martial arts an mmorpg it got shutdown some years ago but you probably would call craft tedious there as well but for me it was fun, why? it was hard there was some stuff that u had to get that was % or just luck idk never really found how to actually efficiently make them and the materials was hard to get you had to kill alot and there was this mechanic that if you died to monsters you would lose exp so you see it was really fun the systems were fun to me it was difficult and getting the items making them was hyper the game was until lvl60 if i remember correctly i was around 20-25 when it got shutdown and until that point i was the solo player with the highest craft skill on all body parts and weapons on the game leveling was like wow classic if you fucked up you would die good memories.
About your statement that "as players, we are half the problem", you're not entirely wrong, but as the designers of CIV IV once said, "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game". If the designers don't take that into account, and end up making a bad experience for the player, they probably made the wrong choice. That being said, crafting is a notoriously hard system to make rewarding, that much is true. But with that in mind, crafting really should only be added to a game when it really adds to the experience, whether that's to make the player choose between making a medkit or a molotov (with your limited resources), or making the player look forward to beating the next boss for that sweet equipment upgrade. If it doesn't add anything to the game, don't put it into the game, period.
The only crafting games I have enjoyed were Factorio and Satisfactory. Crafting is a core mechanic and it's fun because you don't have to do it manually.
Minecraft does a lot of things great, but I don't like the crafting or mining. Ironically, those are the stuff in the name. The mining is boring and grindy, and the crafting is just a way to get the stuff you use. Obviously it's integral, but it is really flavorless.
I can see your point, and I do agree; some of the more grindy activities (mostly late-game) can be boring at times, but I do enjoy mining, and unlike other games, there's no crafting animation. Just my side of the story :D
It may sound a bit weird, but theres a flash game called "Jacksmith" where you spend a LARGE majority of the game is spent creating weapons. Its not used for downtime, in fact, I think its the opposite. it requires a lot of brain power to make a single sword that isn't a complete mess. And i feel like for games like Minecraft, or AC:NH it wouldn't work that well. because your trying to craft things in bulk. But I think you should check it out before flash is 👻if you know what im saying.
Out of curiosity, have you seen a game where resources are gathered through game play and then used for crafting rather than gathering elements to craft? Do you think that would work to improve crafting systems for you? I'm aspire to be a game dev and haven't considered it.
Honestly perfect crafting system is in dying light/far cry Craftable items are not necessary to beat the game, and materials are not rare Crafting only takes few seconds Also you know where you can find parts you need (you can even see marked locations on map) I wish more games would just implement this type of crafting Midwhile in many games crafting takes few minutes, materials are rare and craftable items are pretty much necessary
I've never really liked crafting in games, especially when you don't know it's in the game. Imagine this, your playing a star wars game, your having fun being a jedi or sith using either sides force powers along with a lightsaber but you have to stop every once in a while to fix that lightsaber. That sounds boring, I want to face a jedi or sith along with some dueling and maybe troops, not spend more than 5 minutes finding the right mineral to fix my lightsaber.
Wow. It is a cruel irony for WOW and Minecraft to have sucky crafting systems despite having "craft" in the name. WOW is a game I actually played, and it's my favorite video game. However I admit that the crafting can be sucky. I should be specific here. Gathering professions are great. They are part of the core fun. I am going to be in the wilderness anyway. I am going to complete quests and fight creatures anyway. So I might as well gather stuff there anyway. Skinning in particular is the best profession in the whole game. If I defeat a mammal or reptile animal, I think of leather as extra loot. Skinning only takes a few seconds per animal. It is the production professions that suck. I get stuck in a capital city. I make stuff at the designated workshop. Then I go to auction house. There is a lot of time going back and forth. It is so boring. Eventually I learned that selling materials is surprisingly lucrative. Then I had all my characters have only gathering professions. Then I can get in the auction house, dump my materials and get out. I make a ton of money without the hassle. I have it so each character has skinning mixed with herbalism or mining. This may seem like cheating, but I getaway with it. I don't mind the idea of crafting. I just think the execution needs improving. The one fix I would make is to have production faster. If someone wants to make multiples of the same item, just show the crafting animation once. That would make production a lot more bearable. There is plenty of downtime when visiting quest givers and venders. Adding lengthy crafting is overkill. This video had quite a few games as examples. However WOW in particular is the part that really clicked with me personally.
I've never complained about minecraft's crafting system... I think its really good, you layout materials in the logical order of the item you envision making. But the tedious and boring argument disappears when the lack of materials you can hold on you is added. You don't have to craft for that long. You can get a stack of arrows from a few materials, or a stack of slabs from a few materials, and even wooden planks. Its not tedious unless you are deliberately gathering an huge amount of resources.
I don't think crafting is really a problem. The big issue is the lazy grind that comes with it in games like wow and skyrim. The difference for a game like minecraft is the most of the crafting gameplay is spent exploring the world and over coming challenges to get ingredients which is arguably fun and rewarding. Games that do crafting wrong pad it out with grinding because there's not much depth to their system.
I mean I agree with everything you’re saying but crafting in games such as Minecraft and Terraria are (in my opinion) rewarding because through all of the exploration and fighting you were finally able to become stronger or more able to create things. And to me that is a great way to make a good crafting system
I agree, Terraria especially makes crafting feel important. For example, crafting the Terra Blade for the first time with all those insanely complicated recipes somehow feels really, really good. It brings weapons from all areas of your playthrough up to that point into one powerful weapon. And it gives a purpose to travelling through the underground jungle looking for spores and stingers, or getting hellstone, or beating the mech bosses, and mothrons during the eclipse. Idk it just seems like Terraria implemented the crafting system extremely well, dare I say better than Minecraft even.
Zenith: *now this looks like a job for me!*
I agree, they donn't have like a 100 hour long animation and you can easily mass produce with a click.
I think these games have a certain aspect of crafting that makes them feel more enjoyable. The thing about these games is that they require you to go out of your way to explore to find crafting materials, instead of just putting all the ore and other materials in some mineshaft. Something else about the materials is that they do not respawn, so you cant stay there. These two mechanics seem to encourage players to go explore, and get moving, which gives the play incentive and improves the games as a whole.
I think it helps if the game already has a focus on you being able to edit and change the world; terraria, Minecraft, and other (usually voxel-based) games with destructible/buildable terrain are the kind that fits this vibe. Generic open-world games don’t necessarily, and it just feels shoehorned in to fit the trend. In those games most of the useful items could just be acquirable through killing specific bosses or enemies or exploring zones, as one time rewards, and would work better and simpler that way.
honestly, I feel like the best crafting system is the cooking system from Breath of the Wild. it feels fun, there are minimal menus to traverse, and there's always something new to cook
Plus, seeing Link being adorable is more than enough
Kaden Stimpson yessss ikr
Or the papa's games on cool math lol
Laughs in Terraria
@@Auvisome
What’s the difference? I don’t play Terraria
Fun fact: Minecraft's name didn't originally mean mining and crafting, it just meant "mining". Minecraft as a word was like Warcraft, Starcraft, witchcraft etc.
WOW! I never knew that! Cool!
@@rowboat10 I realised that when Jacksepticeye went to a cave in Minecraft and asked "Is this one of those minecrafts?"
Also the name was created before there was a crafting system, so it wouldn't make sense if it meant crafting
@@aurin_komak did you mean to send this comment to someone else? You said the same thing twice
@@rowboat10 I meant to say it twice😎 Because I'm a fucking idiot😎👌💦
@Gun thanks
I feel like by intention the crafting system of games include the gathering resources. I’m just going to talk about Minecraft for this example, I feel like it’s crafting system is perfect as is. To separate the crafting part of Minecraft and the gathering part is kind of strange to me, it’s kind of like complaining that the main menu of a game isn’t super fun. The crafting system in Minecraft was created around the gathering part of it and the crafting table is a menu to use what you get into something. If it was made to where you have to press several buttons in order to craft instead of just one it’d get tedious quickly. Minecraft’s quick and easy crafting system so that you can go back to gathering is good as is and I’m honestly having a hard time seeing why you dislike it. It’s really not tedious at all and it’s an understandable way to connect the gathering materials part of the game to the building or mining parts of it
Oh sh*t oh f*ck it's tier list dude
Yeah, it's quick and easy (easier now with the recipe book), if mojanh changed the entire crafting system that would break the game
It would be annoying if you had to see an animation of steve crafting things every single time xd
I don't get it. "you have to Google stuff" the video says. But you don't. You literally have a crafting book of all recipes. If you have the items the game can arrange them itself.
Hey man, thanks for the well thought out reply. I've decided to make another video entirely critiquing the crafting system in Minecraft--and I change my stance a bit as well (but stay tuned for the full story 😊)
But thanks for making me question myself--it's always important to offer counterpoints! I truly appreciate it, and thank you for watching.
Skyrim is alpha tbh...
Can we talk about how he renamed his world from the given "New World"
To
"new world"
DONT EXPOSÉ ME LIKE THAT SMH
Heheheheheheheheheheheh. Good soldier.
Recently i played Minecraft with a Thaumcraft mod and the whole gameplay was crafting things, to craft way better things. I donno, it was really hard for me to find a goal in vanilla minecraft. When I installed this mod i got just what i needed. You have a planty of cool things to craft, and when you do this, you'll get more of better staff to craft. BUT! You have to explore the minecraft world to find the ingredients. Maybe that's just my issue, but in vanilla I rarely treveled, and droped the game just as i built a house couse i didn't know what to do next. Well, i knew i need a nether portal and blaze rods, but i neaded to prepare for going for them. With the mod I had a progression and knew i was ready to go to... wherever I needed to go.
And, yeah, there were some fun crafting mechanics, not just "press a button"
When you were talking about the game that's more about crafting then any other. I thought you were going to say potioncraft.
Tldr: potioncraft is a game entirely about brewing which actually delivers on the witch/alchemist fantasy. By having you experiment to discover new potions and the best recipes to make them.
Also, the addition of potion customization really appeals to me because I don't want to make a "strong potion of explosion" instead I can look through my receipe book and find "Goban's Gobtastic Explosion Juice" and brew up some of that.
Long description: almost all of the time is spent on the crafting system. It's the only game I've ever finished crafting a potion and said "that was alright but, I can do better" and then remade the potion with a different recipe so I'd have a more efficient one for the future.
Also, the idea of having a map which represents the space of possibilities for potions and then ingredients move you through that landscape is genius. The fact that it takes actual skill to make the most efficient/best potions is the icing on the cake. It's also the only game that's ever made me go "hm, what should I put into my potion next. Maybe some terraria? No, that'll ruin it, maybe some goblin shrooms? Haha! That's perfect" 10/10 would play again, in fact I'm going to go play it now that I'm thinking about it. I forgot I never finished making Life salt.
Really underrated channel! Great stuff.
Is it me or is it that just 3 months ago his avg viewers were 300k and now it’s not even 1k, u really deserve better for the effort you put in!!
It’s all the algorithm, never know what it’ll pick up 😅 but you being here more than enough for me to keep making content! I love it!
The crafting system in fantasy life is unique
Each time you craft you have to preform a mini game of a set number of random actions as quickly as possible to get the best quality results
My experience of crafting in Minecraft: sharing recipes with friends, feeling I have learned something, and bragging about how many recipes we can memorize. The cases of crafting that are the most fun are when it has lots of layers, so getting the last item means being able to merge items like 5 times in a row to finally get the thin you worked so long for.
honestly I miss having to figure out crafting recipes on my own in minecraft. Its like a nostalgic part of my childhood ill never get back. Ill ever accidentally make my first torch or my first wooden axe ever only to never make one again
One of the best crafting systems I have used was in a small game called Magicite, where it is a key part of the progression.
Personally, I feel like Monster Hunter: World (or any MH game, for that matter) actually does have a fairly solid take on a crafting system. Of course, I still wouldn't call it perfect, but I enjoy how it works: You hunt a monster for the first time, get to see the awesome gear it gives you, and see what you need to gather to make it. The thing where MHW differs from other crafting systems, however, is that the materials you need to gather are actually *from* the monsters themselves. This encourages you to get back into the action, hunt that same monster some more, and improve your skills at the game in the meantime. And then, of course, there's also the aspect of getting certain materials by breaking different parts on the monster, which often requires skill and consideration. I dunno, I just think it's neat how the crafting system in World encourages you to continue the action and improve your skills at the game to get better rewards for yourself. The only thing necessary is beating the monster for the first time to unlock the recipes, there's no real grinding just for the crafting recipes themselves. Anyways, I wrote a lot more than I was expecting to here.
an idea, building off the wicher, You find the blueprint for crafting bring it to the maker and then sometimes he may say "Oh I am short on this, could you grab a few of these for me?" that way sometimes, you still have to go out and find things but not... every... time...
Minecraft feels accomplished when getting items, which you use to craft, you feel accomplished after, but you don't feel like that in other games.
I think crafting is overused and kinda sucks, but there are people who enjoy it. Not me, but one of my friend's favourite parts of Fallout (4+76) is the crafting, even though he admits it's tedious. I think game designers should make it fun to craft, and make it less integral to the gameplay, so I can spend my hours slaying Scorched Beasts and Deathclaws instead of sorting and scrapping armour and weapons.
P.S. nice to see you back with videos Meraki, and still love the outro :D
I mean I crafted some Deadric armor
and it felt real good when I finally got it, but I agree the grind is annoying.
If I have to think about two games/game series where crafting was really fun and rewarding, it would be Fantasy Life and the Atelier series (both JRPGs). I'd encourage you to make some research about those titles.
For Fantasy Life, while it can definitely get repetitive, I've always loved when there was some added gameplay to crafting something, and that your skill (and your character's job level still) impacted the quality of the gear. It's just a little minigame, but the fact that most of the stuff you can gather out in the field is also a little minigame makes for a very nice gameplay loop. Only problem I had with this though, is that you had to change your job through a short but tedious process each time you wanted to gather/craft at max potential.
About the Atelier Series, it really depends on the subseries, and my favourite in that crafting aspect would definitely be the Mysterious subseries, which had an amazing puzzle based crafting system. Especially in Atelier Sophie and Atelier Lydie & Suelle, learning how deep the crafting can get by yourself, experimenting with different positions or adding order for the ingredients gave something that could break the limits of what you thought you could work out.
For example: an item has a several properties that only get added if you reach a certain number for some elements, and almost each time I tried reaching max potential for an item, I managed to do it after some long but fun experimentation, and it always felt rewarding. After that property thing, there's even some added depth with ingredient traits, ingredient traits combination to get better traits etc...
It's such a shame though, that gathering is reduced to going out in the fields pressing a button to gather stuff or beating enemies for their drops, cause if gathering was as fun as crafting, those games would definitely be the go-to games for deep crafting (they are already, but only if you can stand slice of life with long ass character interactions, basic stories and meh gathering).
Fortunately, Atelier Ryza has tried to add depth in gathering by giving different ingredients depending on the tool you use, but we're still not there.
I’m very glad TH-cam recommended your Minecraft music analysis video, because you’re a very underrated TH-camr. Your content is way too good for only 30ish k subs, so hopefully you get a lot more soon. Cheers.
In Stardew Valley there isn’t much of a crafting system, mostly it’s just drops and stuff you have to buy (not with irl money)
dang IDK why your last two videos didn't get as many views as before, because you definitely deserve it with your level of quality.
I believe terraria is rewarding with its crafting system because while you’re mining/exploring almost everything you get can be used to create something else
The best crafting system I've seen are the ones in the TerraFirmaCraft mod for Minecraft, where crafting happens through methods like melting metal to cast it into new tools or putting iron into a bloomery to create wrought iron. It has an anvil system that feels kinda puzzle-y and more fun, though the downside to these is that it makes the game _very_ grindy at certain points, like when you need to make a ton of iron plates for a blast furnace.
That being said, I do kinda agree that it seems like crafting systems are just put in games now because it's trendy, and I think they should be more carefully considered.
Did I just hear next week? HYPE
9:30 Yeah, in the community we call that "modded minecraft", one example for this might be "GT:NH" and it's a literal pain in the ass, it takes like at least 9000 hours to craft up everything to finish the game
bro every time I play Skyrim I'm always using console commands to get materials. Its not fun to constantly be on the lookout for materials imo.
Exactly what I did to make this video lol
Then why even play the game
There was a game called Fantasy Life some while ago on the 3DS that had a pretty Ok-ish crafting. The material gathering was the same, but to actually craft you had to complete this minigame that could actually improve the weapon if you perform well enough.
_and that one crafting quest from Dragon Age Origins that made the salesman hate you because de smith took too long to make the dragon armor and misses the other commissions.. Aaahhh good times_
I think you'd appreciate Vintage Story's Clayworking, Cooking and Smithing mechanics.
Old rpg ex: Baldur's Gate has no craft system, base attributes in weapon and armor, even so, your character gets powerful with and lvl.. recently games bring loot and 1000 weapon same appearance with different attributes.
I never really realized how bad crafting in most games is! Yeah, crafting in Minecraft can be tedious if you're building a mansion out of red netherbricks, but I feel like it's the best one out there. It can be satisfying, like when you finally get the bow recipe the right way round on the first try.
There's a game called Vintage Story, most people would mistake it for minecraft, but it has an extremely immersive crafting system. Pretty much every medieval trade is simulated well.
I think I'm the only person who doesn't mind these. I don't mind crafting, gear durability, etc. Mostly because I craft a shit ton of stuff in one go, play for hours on end, then craft a new set of gear. One game I'm currently obsessed with, The Long Dark, is 90% crafting in some way:
1)You set up a furnace to cook some bear meat
2) You hunt rabbits for the materials to make the best hats/gloves
3) You harvest the carcass at base and start drying its fur/guts to be usable
4) You then collect your cooked meat
5) Now you spend in-game hours to make knives and hatchets, the rarest tools in the game (rarer than the revolver and rifle ffs)
Rinse and repeat just to stay alive, assuming you don't get eaten by a random bear
One game that I find has a different take on crafting is space engineers, instead of crafting a whole block, you mine the ore, refine it, assemble the required components and then weld the blocks up.
Horizon Zero Dawn has a small crafting system that’s not too tedious. You do have to craft ammo but it can be done on the go, if you open up your weapon wheel mid battle then you can make more ammo. It also helps that the materials aren’t the most difficult to find because looting enemies is such a massive part of the gameplay and you’re constantly running into more and more herds.
There are tons of games that try to make the crafting more interesting by putting skill or puzzle type gameplay into crafting and believe me its just more tedium on top of more basic systems. Take cooking in Genshin Impact vs Zelda BOTW. in Zelda I can can just grab my 5 ingredients and cook them up, spamming B to skip the animation and get my completed item. Genshin has a simple timed button press to make an item poorly, decently or perfectly. Once you make something perfectly a few times you can then mass craft that item and skip the timed button press altogether, but those first few times making it are just extra tedium.
Another example is CREA. During crafting you get a puzzle like enhancement system added to crafting that lets you use extra collected items to enhance the gear by doing a little semi-random based descisions to balance some arbitrary numbers and its a confusing mess to get used to. Rather than adding to the feel of crafting it adds more tedium once again.
The true goal of a crafting mechanic should be to be a reward for collecting things, and not the reason you collect things. For example: Say you added in 100+ secret random doodads to collect throughout your game, why not have that be a/the component of some legendary weapon or item upgrade. If you have each of the dragons in your game drop bones as a thing you can give the player an option to turn them into slightly better arrows. Don't have the player scour a mountainside for rocks so they can level up a skill to get better rocks and then eventually make something. You need to have everything that you make in your crafting system a reward, and not just a stepping stone towards the actual reward.
This is what makes minecraft modpacks amazing. You start with the crafting table, build a machine automatically producing the stuff you need to make better stuff end end up making a reactor combining super expensive stuff to make even more expensive stuff
Please check out the alchemy system in Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Crafting potions and poisons are not menu based. They take time, effort, and focus to be able to do it right and consistently. The closer you are to following the instructions, the more you can get out of your batch. You have to increase heat, time when you do any actions, when you add ingredients, what order you add ingredients, and even manage a hourglass to time everything. This is also on top of you finding the recipes if you don't want to try to discover them for yourself (which the game will record your best attempt with the recipe you did). If you want to read these recipes, you have to teach your character to read or they will just be a jumbled mess of letters.
Plz make more videos I love your stuff it’s so good to listen too
Absolutely! Yes, thank-you! What annoys me most about the rise of crafting is that it can become shoe-horned into games that simply don't need it, 'Prey' *cough*. In games where you want action and the story to progress, crafting comes along to kill the joy, requiring an inordinate amount of time to wander collecting an unreasonable amount of crap, just to make a few bullets or a small medikit so the actual fun can continue for another, well 5 minutes before it's that time again. Developers, please stop shoving crafting in every bloody game just because it is the current fad. Also, games that traditionally do suit crafting, definitely need to be more creative with how it is implemented, not only in the gathering stage but in the making/building/smithing stage etc. Get the player to be hands on doing it. A very simple, but good example is the picking locks action used by the player in Skyrim. Above all try to do anything to break the repetitive monotony. That is what real world jobs already do to our souls. We play games to get away from that! lol
12:08 you should check out the crafting system for dragon quest 11 (the console/pc versions) It’s really similar to what you were saying in that time stamp and I think you’ll like it. It’s very rewarding too imo
Binged the entire channel in one sitting. Now what do I do?
In starve.io, crafting actually adds challenge to the game since when you craft you can do nothing but move around, leaving you vulnerable to mobs and other players.
I thought that I was the only one who think like that, specially about Skyrim's craft system(even if you just hit the ore you will obtain it, it's boring), thanks for the video.
Part of what makes crafting skills less fun than weapon skills in skyrim is that there is no difficulty or stakes to it. You can fight badly or well but there is no player skill in the smithing menu
I think that the crafting system can be better optimized through an addition of a quick craft menu, like Hypixel skyblock. Besides this, I think the game providing you with some sort of map to acquire the needed materialls would really make it far better, as then, crafting would be an exciting quest, instead of boring monotony.
If it's done well, it's really cool. If it's not done well, you spend 2 hours making fish bait
I don’t know if anyone said this but I feel like crafting in games like skyrim should be like how lockpicking is, where you have to actually interact with the lock, or forge in this case to make the best armor and maybe the perks allow the crafting to be easier like how perks allow lockpicking to be easier. For example, you’d have to pour the molten materials, hammer them into place, tie pieces together and if it’s done perfectly you have a better version of an item than just looting it from a chest and if you don’t do so well then the item would suck. I feel like this system would be as rewarding as any other activity, because each of your actions while crafting directly effects how your gameplay with the item will end up.
In all honesty, I don't see how crafting could be a good thing in any games. It gets even more frustrating when you have to wait to craft something, its just grinding.
i think the best crafting system in a game i have ever seen was on that one flashgame "jacksmith". Ignoring the fact that that game is *about* crafting weapons and selling them, the crafting felt fun and inventive with a easy and predicable way to rank skill and improve.
I like having a crafting system but the thing that annoys me the most are:
1. RNG - Ingredients that have a 2% chance to drop. I don't care how good the sword is, I'm not gonna kill 200 monsters to get an ingredient.
2. Too many ingredients - Why does an item need to have 7 ingredients? Ingredients should be 3 at max, two ores and a magic stone.
I like your voice.
You have a wide variety of vocabulary and the use of metaphors. The pronunciation is spot on! It is rare to see people having such range of vocab and pronunciation. The word used aren't bombastic either! 😊
Thanks so much!! That means a lot
Crafting in spiritfarer is awesome, everything is gameplay centred and it ends up feeling very natural and pleasent as you can always get better at the specific process you are trying to do.
Hey Meraki, are you ever going to do a video on firewatch?
Absolutely at some point !
One Game that nails Crafting in My Opinion is Satisfactory, the entire Point of the game is to automate everything so you don't need to craft anymore, but if you don't automate you're gonna have a bad time holding down your spacebar for the rest of eternity.
Surprised i diidnt hear a single mention of the atelier games and tge different takes on alchemy
I could literally go on a 20 page long guide on just the basics of alchemy on atelier Sophie alchemist of the mysterious book ,
Your skill tree is you alchemy book of recepies and you proogres trough it by doing what each node says it requires
Like crafting a plank with the "flickering light" trait
Or defeating a named boss
Or geting a particular material
Each item in the game has particular stats related to alchemy :
-Elemental color
-Size
-Quality 1-999
-Shape (think Tetris pieces)
-Up to four random traits from hundreds available in the game
And those traits can combine with others to create more powerful traits
-material tags (wood, metal ,ore , paper, gunpowder, elixir, medicine, gem, weapon, weapon material, animal, etc )
The game is a dream come true for item maniacs like me
God damn your content is fire, keep it coming
In all honesty I think Fallout 4's crafting system is pretty great. It ties neatly into the core gameplay loop, it makes meta-sense (you don't use two decanters to make a laser, you make 'crystal' out of decanters, which makes sense for a laser), isnt tedious (you level up your character most via quests and exploring, you only come back to the workbench for a moment once youve gotten materials or a perk that lets you craft better stuff), and feels significant - because yeah, crafting is way more reliable than relying on randomized loot. It sits perfectly in the background of the game.
Team fortress 2 has a cool crafting system, minus the economy. The way you get items is by random drops when playing. You can then smelt the items into metals, metals to better metals, and then back to new weapons or hats. If not for the economy, this would make it so you have to work towards getting the items and feeling satisfied at finally getting the pauper hat you wanted.
i didnt expect to be blessed with such beautiful content today. thank you so much
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this already, but the crafting system in Dragon Quest 11 is super fun, its an engaging lil mini game
Hey Meraki I j wanted to ask if you could make a video about breath of the wild and maybe how it was successful despite breaking the Zelda formula. More of a suggestion than an ask. Anyways I’ll see ya around.
Skyrim, Zelda Botw, Horizon Zero Dawn, Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2, Witcher 3, Fallout, Dead Island, etc, etc, etc...
If I have to play pick up sticks one more time in a video game, I'm retiring.
The autocrafter actually improved minecraft crafting a lot. You have to use it at first but then you can build a factory to craft for you.
Meraki: Crafting in video games sucks
Minecraft: am i a joke to you?
Agreed, it is indeed very annoying to grind for crafting materials. It's just like a pay to win game but the free to play experience
I feel like some games its the entire gameplay such as terria and minecraft but there is also other things that would be better like not having to mine and chop down logs you can just get it from chests once you finish it or that type of thing and also There is a trading game I play where you can trade mine and chop down trees or be a pirate, and so if you want to there is where you just get the doubloons(ingame currency) and trade with other players to get resources and as a pirate you cna do the same thing
All of your videos are just fantastic.
40k pog
My problem with crafting is that there is no challenge tied to the mechanic. No risk, only rewards for clicking that button. So it's just a time sink where all the items you can craft might as well drop out in the world, instead of the materials to make them.
Crafting should be some sort of mini game or gameplay mechanic where you can actually fail and lose your precious resources, or where the end products reflect your performance and skill in the crafting game. I used to like crafting back when Skyrim first launched, but then I realized I just enjoyed the dopamine hits and didn't really value my time.
If nothing but wasted time is added from having crafting materials drop instead of complete items, then the crafting feature is pointless imo.
As you were talking I thought "What if instead of pressing a button to forge a sword or something, you actually forged it yourself." Like in that one flash game, JackSmith, but YOU the player used the weapons. After going on a journey for materials you prepare your forge and use your own skill to create a weapon. Give crafting actual gameplay instead of just pressing buttons with no thought.
What about Minecraft?
@@rowboat10 I really don't know.
@@goldfedora378 have you not played?
@@rowboat10 Of course I've played, I'm just not sure how you would do that for Minecraft.
@@goldfedora378 nonono, what do you think of Minecraft's system?
If you want fun progression, RL Craft is a great Minecraft modpack made by Shivaxi you can find on the Twitch app.
Progression feels great because it's simple, but REALLY hard. All you need to do is spend XP levels to upgrade the skills, but obtaining the XP is the problem >:)
Good luck if you choose to venture this path.
I would really like to hear your thoughts on Factorio's crafting system.
a good crafting system imo is what vintage story is going for (not there yet but they're close)
Terraria is a probable exception. Crafting is instant select-from-menu, and the only barrier is availability of ingredients and crafting tools. Ingredient acquisition is the core gameplay loop, which is exploration and grinding mobs for drops a la Diablo, and the more common ingredients are ubiquitous and easy to acquire. Even trying to obtain a singular ingredient will lead you to easily getting side-tracked with other resources. There is barely any story other than "explore, fight, craft, power-up."
Factorio takes "avoid crafting" and makes a game out of it. It is impossible to progress without automating the entire crafting tree.
Both are examples of minmizing the boring part of crafting: everything other than the output.
I have to disagree with you on this one. I LOVE crafting in games! It can be simplistic like in TES games, or more interesting like in Minecraft, but I still enjoy it. And the more complex it is - the more I enjoy it!
When I played Conan Exiles with a bunch of my friends I was leveling in building and crafting (thouh more into building). Eventually a game looked like this: my friends were running around, fighting, gathering stuff, bringing it back to me, and I was mostly staying in the bas building a nice castle and crafting gear for all of us. And I absolutely loved it!
As for Minecraft - the most boring part for me is gathering a ton of stuff for my building project.
I personally really liked Dragon Age Inquisition crafting system, where used material has real influence on weapon or armor
I think something that sticks out to me here is minecraft has the most logical and bearable system of crafting, but yet its the quickest and least likely to get in your way. I don't think that's a coincidence.
There used to be this game called martial arts an mmorpg it got shutdown some years ago but you probably would call craft tedious there as well but for me it was fun, why? it was hard there was some stuff that u had to get that was % or just luck idk never really found how to actually efficiently make them and the materials was hard to get you had to kill alot and there was this mechanic that if you died to monsters you would lose exp so you see it was really fun the systems were fun to me it was difficult and getting the items making them was hyper the game was until lvl60 if i remember correctly i was around 20-25 when it got shutdown and until that point i was the solo player with the highest craft skill on all body parts and weapons on the game leveling was like wow classic if you fucked up you would die good memories.
I know a game that does it perfectly its named "fantasy life" dor the 3ds
I never got into skyrim. I really wanted to get into the game but for some reason I was feeling like I was just forcing myself. Good video anyways.
If I had to name a game with satisfying crafting system, I'd probably go for Monster Hunter.
i think that crafting food and ammo in rdr 2 is really fun
Minecraft has the best crafting system because it's not just a button you need to know how to craft. Memorizing the recipes are necessary.
About your statement that "as players, we are half the problem", you're not entirely wrong, but as the designers of CIV IV once said, "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game".
If the designers don't take that into account, and end up making a bad experience for the player, they probably made the wrong choice.
That being said, crafting is a notoriously hard system to make rewarding, that much is true. But with that in mind, crafting really should only be added to a game when it really adds to the experience, whether that's to make the player choose between making a medkit or a molotov (with your limited resources), or making the player look forward to beating the next boss for that sweet equipment upgrade. If it doesn't add anything to the game, don't put it into the game, period.
Once again, another amazing video. Will never get bored of your content mate ✌️
The only crafting games I have enjoyed were Factorio and Satisfactory. Crafting is a core mechanic and it's fun because you don't have to do it manually.
Minecraft does a lot of things great, but I don't like the crafting or mining. Ironically, those are the stuff in the name. The mining is boring and grindy, and the crafting is just a way to get the stuff you use. Obviously it's integral, but it is really flavorless.
Try the modpack RLCraft. It makes everything revolve around combat.
I can see your point, and I do agree; some of the more grindy activities (mostly late-game) can be boring at times, but I do enjoy mining, and unlike other games, there's no crafting animation. Just my side of the story :D
It may sound a bit weird, but theres a flash game called "Jacksmith" where you spend a LARGE majority of the game is spent creating weapons. Its not used for downtime, in fact, I think its the opposite. it requires a lot of brain power to make a single sword that isn't a complete mess. And i feel like for games like Minecraft, or AC:NH it wouldn't work that well. because your trying to craft things in bulk. But I think you should check it out before flash is 👻if you know what im saying.
Out of curiosity, have you seen a game where resources are gathered through game play and then used for crafting rather than gathering elements to craft? Do you think that would work to improve crafting systems for you? I'm aspire to be a game dev and haven't considered it.
Honestly perfect crafting system is in dying light/far cry
Craftable items are not necessary to beat the game, and materials are not rare
Crafting only takes few seconds
Also you know where you can find parts you need (you can even see marked locations on map)
I wish more games would just implement this type of crafting
Midwhile in many games crafting takes few minutes, materials are rare and craftable items are pretty much necessary
If you want a better minecraft crafting and smithing system then check out Vintage Story
I've never really liked crafting in games, especially when you don't know it's in the game. Imagine this, your playing a star wars game, your having fun being a jedi or sith using either sides force powers along with a lightsaber but you have to stop every once in a while to fix that lightsaber. That sounds boring, I want to face a jedi or sith along with some dueling and maybe troops, not spend more than 5 minutes finding the right mineral to fix my lightsaber.
Wow. It is a cruel irony for WOW and Minecraft to have sucky crafting systems despite having "craft" in the name. WOW is a game I actually played, and it's my favorite video game. However I admit that the crafting can be sucky. I should be specific here. Gathering professions are great. They are part of the core fun. I am going to be in the wilderness anyway. I am going to complete quests and fight creatures anyway. So I might as well gather stuff there anyway. Skinning in particular is the best profession in the whole game. If I defeat a mammal or reptile animal, I think of leather as extra loot. Skinning only takes a few seconds per animal. It is the production professions that suck. I get stuck in a capital city. I make stuff at the designated workshop. Then I go to auction house. There is a lot of time going back and forth. It is so boring. Eventually I learned that selling materials is surprisingly lucrative. Then I had all my characters have only gathering professions. Then I can get in the auction house, dump my materials and get out. I make a ton of money without the hassle. I have it so each character has skinning mixed with herbalism or mining. This may seem like cheating, but I getaway with it. I don't mind the idea of crafting. I just think the execution needs improving. The one fix I would make is to have production faster. If someone wants to make multiples of the same item, just show the crafting animation once. That would make production a lot more bearable. There is plenty of downtime when visiting quest givers and venders. Adding lengthy crafting is overkill. This video had quite a few games as examples. However WOW in particular is the part that really clicked with me personally.
I've never complained about minecraft's crafting system...
I think its really good, you layout materials in the logical order of the item you envision making. But the tedious and boring argument disappears when the lack of materials you can hold on you is added.
You don't have to craft for that long. You can get a stack of arrows from a few materials, or a stack of slabs from a few materials, and even wooden planks. Its not tedious unless you are deliberately gathering an huge amount of resources.
Dragon Quest Eleven is a good, not perfect, but good example of crafting
ur the fax machine jeez u said every single problem with crafting games
:0
I don't think crafting is really a problem. The big issue is the lazy grind that comes with it in games like wow and skyrim. The difference for a game like minecraft is the most of the crafting gameplay is spent exploring the world and over coming challenges to get ingredients which is arguably fun and rewarding. Games that do crafting wrong pad it out with grinding because there's not much depth to their system.