Note, the "Bradley Commander Hop" demonstrated in the video at around 7:48 was the official doctrine for a hasty dismount (and a variation of it is still on the books for Platoon Leaders in Bradley-equipped infantry and cavalry units). But, it wasn't practiced by all units for obvious clunky reasons.
A small request - your production values are excellent, but the glitch-effect you use for transitions goes on just often/long enough to be something of a potential epileptic/migraine trigger. If it could be reduced to a single glitch-cut, that would be an improvement, even if you kept the oldschool channel change sound. Love your stuff otherwise!
I'd love to see anything about the dutch forces. Squad layout, battle tactics, anything! I came across your channel about a week or two ago and I'm running out of videos already. Great footage keep up the work! Absolutely love it!
I am a retired 11M who was a Bradley Master Gunner. You got a lot right but there was never this shuffling of crew around. If the Platoon Leader Dismounted his gunner (who may or may not have been a Master Gunner since they were in short supply) would remain in his seat. There was nothing he couldn't do from the gunner's seat that would require a move. Also, in all my years in the only pistols I ever saw were assigned to the Company Commander, the Company XO and sometimes Medics. Never had one assigned to a Dismount gunner.
I had the same thought, Philip - I never saw shuffling of crew in an armored vehicle, be it an APC or IFV. That might turn out deadly under fire. And even administratively, it would be a headache. Issuing the sidearm to a machine gunner was the practice of MG teams. From what I've seen of most recent Mechanized Infantry units, the MG is issued to a single Soldier as if it were an auto rifle instead of an MG - M240, M249, or M60. That's sloppy. But, the US Army is relying on the support of the vehicle HMG or auto-cannon. You still see MG teams in some of the light brigades - Mountain, Air Assault, and Airborne.
@@christopherlarsen7788 My background is entirely as Mechanized Infantry so if Light Infantry MG crews were issued side arms I will take your word for it.
@@christopherlarsen7788 I think you are confusing, the mechanized units always relied in their vehicle for heavy close support or direct, so HMG is not only provided by the vehicle auto-cannon (if it have one) but by the HMG who are in company level, the platoon level MMG and squad level SAW.
Thanks for the feedback Philip. We demonstrated the crew shuffling mainly to show the intent of the official doctrine because a lot about the official Bradley doctrine is confusing to read about without visual help. We've posted a pinned comment stating that not all units followed this practice. As for the pistol, this was mainly talking about when the M60 was a permanent part of the squad rather than a spare weapon as it was officially after the widespread adoption of the M249. Army doctrine for permanent M60 gunners and now M240 gunners has been to give them a sidearm. As well, I've had soldiers who served in the mechanized infantry in the 1980s as M60 gunners tell me that they carried sidearms.
As a light infantryman, it seems weird to imagine a 6 man dismounted squad with asymmetric fire and maneuver until I remember that the Bradleys provide the fire while the pacs do the movement.
Yes, this is definitely not a large complement of dismounts, and it‘s going to be a serious problem if they are ever forced to operate away from their vehicle. The moment your vehicle gun can‘t support you, you are suddenly a very anemic rifle squad with extremely limited options. Hence why you should always be backed up by „leg“ infantry.
"The problem with planning against American doctrine is that American commanders do not follow their field manuals, nor do they feel compelled to follow their doctrine."
@@dylan4964 Roflmao I know what auftragstaktik are, just don't see the point of wehrabooing about it when literally the entire war history post WW2 (and included) is studied at military academies
@@nikolakaravida9670 what does ww2 have to do with auftragstaktik? Its a prussian principle Literally germany and "wehr" anything is irrelevant and your making yourself an absolute fool
I served in Baumholder Germany 8th ID 1/13th Infantry late 1982 through 1984, we still had M113A1's and A2's. We had the 11 man squads, I was an M203 gunner then a track driver until I got promoted to Corporal and became a track commander. It was my first mechanized unit after being in light infantry units in the 2nd ID in Korea and 7th ID at Ft Ord. I definitely preferred mechanized to humping 70 pound rucks up and down hills especially since I was an M60 gunner at Ft Ord. My Ft Ord unit ended up going back to Korea for Team Spirit in 82 and I remember struggling to climb up those hills with a full load and that 26 pound hunk of iron. Korea ain't nothing but hills and I was all of 155 pounds soaking wet at the time.
@@davidwillis8623 it was fun to drive but it took a lot of upper body strength. The M113A1 had power steering with a steering wheel of sorts. The M113 had two manual steering/braking levers. It was a hoot to drive in the woods some of the most fun I've ever had. That two stroke Series 53 Detroit Diesel could spool up really quickly.
@@davidwillis8623 We had two 'sticks'; pull back on the left and the left track stops - which turns the vehicle to the left. As Maiedova said, not for the weak. What I learned was Hollywood taught me how NOT to drive; there are a bunch of men and equipment being thrown around back there - who can't see out. If you drive too fast, or turn quickly, or go over humps quickly then people can get hurt.
Sorry there were 2 Armor Battalions in Korea, 1/72 and 2/72. Both were in first Brigade with 5/20 Mech Infantry. The second battalion 1/5 was in third Brigade and was supported by 1 tank company from the first brigade. Love your videos. Please make more. Kyle Oberst 19E 2/72 armor 87 to 88
@@alecjones4135 I had to basically dig everywhere to figure out what my unit did during the Vietnam war, but the best I could find was that they were there in 1969 and 29 guys were killed in country. Barely another word on that. Couldn’t figure out where they were stationed, what their mission was, if they were attached to anyone, etc
I remember 1-72 in 1HBCT when I was on Hovey (2012-13). They were over on Camp Casey with 2-9 Infantry, 302BSB, and 210th Fires while the rest of the brigade (1-15 Fires, 4-7 Cav, and 1BSTB) was over on Hovey. All that has since been shut down. 1HBCT no longer exists, with all of Area 1 handed off to the ROK. All US maneuver forces are down at Humphreys. 210th might still be on Casey, but I think even they were shifted south.
When I was in Mech Infantry in the mid to late 1980s from Private to Specialist E-4. I started as an M60 gunner even though I was by MOS as 11B1PC2 a qualified M47 Dragon gunner. Yes I was also Airborne qualified and sent to Mech Infantry. I handled the heaviest weapons like the M60 the most and the M47 Dragon. When we got the SAW, I was happy because it was lighter than the M60 and new. I was happy like getting a new toy from Santa. When we got new Privates slowly I became a grenadier then team leader and later track commander. Sometimes I became the PL's RTO due to my experience. I hated Mech Infantry very much that I got out of Mech to an Airborne Infantry Battalion in Panama. I found that Airborne Infantry was easier in technical skills and I knew much more in infantry skills tactically and leadership that was beat into me in Mech Infantry. Jumping out of airplanes was fun again because it's what I had enlisted for but long humping in the jungles of Panama sucked because I became the M60 gunner again. It got better as we got new Privates again from Airborne School. I went from M60 gunner in the weapons squad to Alpha team leader with an M203 in the 1st squad. What I found out that coming from Mech Infantry to Airborne was a Mech Infantry soldier was more capable technically than a Paratrooper and had more knowledge in doctrine wise to understand combined arms team operations for the European theatre. A Paratrooper only had the knowledge of succession of command to carry out the mission.
Hey, your production quality is amazing! From the graphics to the insert footage(witch is too good for the label "B Roll") to the little audio cues as things change. I hope you never feel like its not worth the effort. People don't always think about those details but they can FEEL when somethings lower quality. Keep it up!
Have to love those bush taxis, I was a grunt for about 9 years, and we went on battalion exercises with the MECH units, lots of fun. I was a tad confused when you mentioned the squad formations when dismounted, with the commander up front. The Australian army infantry units had the scouts up front, I was one of them. We’d have a forward scout, usually 20-30 metres Infront of the second scout, who would relay directions from the section commander. That being said, I love your content, from an analyst point of view, your spot on. Cheers
What you call scouts we called Point Men (not an official position now but was in WWII). Sadly, the reason for the trailing man is that after the enemy springs their ambush and gets the lead Point Man there is still someone alive to tell everyone where the bad guys are located. In training, I 'died' every time I was the Point Man; if the enemy is doing their job (and the cadre did) you won't know they are there until it's too late.
Content request: to put this Cold War formation into context, I'd love to see the same discussion for Vietnam era M113 rifle squads, even if its exactly the same.
I was a track commander (M113), stationed in Mainz Germany with 3/8 INF Mechanized between 1986-88. We rarely had full squads. Overall I served between 1984-88 and it was an interesting time of transition. From Steel pots to kevlar helmets, from cotton and wool to synthetics and gor-tex. M151 jeeps to HMMV. M60 tanks to Abrams. Our machine gunner was never issued a side arm. I was a Corporal (E4) but was a track commander, though most TC’s were E5 or E6 rank. Those were interesting times. I loved having the M2 .50 cal mg ….except when I had to lug that pig up the “Stairway to Heaven” in Baumholder. Salute to All who served !
I was stationed in Baumholder 82-84 1/13 INF, I was also a Corporal TC towards the end. It's funny but we went to Graf and Hohenfels to train, never actually did any major training in Baumholder. We were always shorthanded as well, they were offering huge re-enlistment bonuses at the time.
I'm one of the last of the old timers like you, 1/6 Infantry, Illesheim, West Germany 1985-1987. 1st Armored Division (aka the Speedbump Division as we were the closest division to the Fulda gap). I drove a M113 and was a SAW gunner. Might I add; C-rations to MREs, M16A1s to M16A2s, black boots to tan, Cobras for Apaches, Hueys to Blackhawks (we had attack helicopters and tanks on our post). There have to be a dozen other things that changed at the end of Ron Regan's Cold War Army.
I was at Mainz from Jan 83 to mid Dec84 with CSC 2/28 Blacklions became E Co 3/8 War Eagles M901s. He did not talk about us. We were on our way out the Bradleys were making us kind of redundant
I ETS'd from Germany in early 87, we were always understrengthed, we didn't have the M-249, our M-60 guy had a .45, and I was the assistant gunner, grenadier, I carried a 203. And also trained with the Dragon.
As a Wikipedia main editor for Orders of Battle, especially the Cold War and Modern Day, I hereby deem thee amazing XD. Btw, if you could do British/Soviet/French forces too (I know you focus on the Americans), that would be awsome!
Looking forward to the explanation of transition from the 3x6 platoon formation to the 2x2 platoon to the 3x9 platoon. Helpful to have this history because for some reason the current Infantry thinks the 9-soldier squad was something handed down on stone tablets.
Id imagine it has something to do with the way the platoon leaders, and to a larger extent, infantry officers are trained and used. Being that there has never been a dedicated mech infantry officer in the US army, all 11A (inf officer) are trained to the light infantry baseline. And once they are in the operational force, they will rotate between light and mech infantry units. Since they aren't trained to understand mech units and aren't continuously assigned to mech units, the institutional momentum was towards making the mech units resemble the light units. This is evidenced by the trend towards divorcing the vehicles from the squad and remodeling the squad to resemble light infantry squads.
In the dollar 94 in the early 80s, the only 45 in the platoon was carried by the medic. We also didn't have extra 60s, only the 60s in the squads. You're right about the under strength modifications. We were always under strength in the 194th. Our first trip to NTC in 1982, we were back filled with engineers just so we could field a third squad. NTC was still issuing out M48s in those days.
Great video! Some more detail for you (sorry for length of post) - Early 1983 - the very first battalion equipped with Bradleys - 1/41 Infantry 2AD Ft. Hood, TX - organization and tactics were still being tested, explored, ironed out. Some may have been carryover from 113 organization. 32 man platoons - 3 nine man line squads/1 five man HQ squad. All with M-16A1 unless otherwise noted. HQ squad had PL as commander(M-16A1 & M1911) SGT as gunner(also HQ squad ldr), PFC driver, PV2 RTO and PFC/PV2 rifleman from 2nd squad (to create two man dismount security with the RTO for the track in defense and replacing PSG who commanded 2nd squad BFV). 1st & 3rd Squads - SSG/SL commander (One would be Mstr Gunner), SP4 gunner, PFC driver, Dismounts -SGT/ASL (M203), SP4 Machine gunner (M60 & M1911), SP4 Grenadier (M203), SP4/PFC Rifleman/Anti-Armor/Asst MG (M47 Dragon-dependent on mission), PFC/PV2 Auto Rifle x2 (M249 SAW labeled weapon mounts in BFV but not issued yet - M16A1s w/bipod used). 2nd Squad - SFC/PSG commander, SGT/ASL gunner, PFC driver, Dismounts - SSG/SL (M203 - overall dismount cmdr if PL stayed mounted), SP4 machine gunner (M60 & M1911), SP4 Grenadier (M203), SP4/PFC Rifleman/Anti-Armor/Asst MG (M47 Dragon-dependent on mission), PFC/PV2 Auto Rifle x2. Attached SGT FO, PFC FO RTO, SP4/PFC medic would ride w/HQ squad. Of note - PLTs always under-strength - manpower priority was Germany so constant poaching of troops stateside to fill overseas slots. Only track commander to dismount would be PL at times - Gunner would run turret solo/no replacement for PL. Initial issue of BFVs had 7 dismount seats - one day in late 83 word came down would be 9 man squads - spent a day in the motor pool removing the 7th seat (the one right in front of the turret door) in all BFVs! M2A0 BFV so all 6 M231 FPWs on board. Only 13 BFVs per company (needed to equip as many Batts as possible) so none for XO -rode the Jeep/113/Deuce and a Half in the field. M1911s - CO/XO/PLT LDR x3/SL of mechanics/M60 gunners - all got chest rig holsters except the 60 gunners!!! The guys humping the pig all found creative ways to retain the pistol!😁 HQ PLT M2 IFV - CPT/CO commander, SP4 gunner, PFC driver, Dismount - PFC RTO M113 - SGT/Commo Sgt commander, PV2/Co Runner driver, Dismount - SP4 NBC specialist M151 Jeep - 1LT/XO commander, SP4/PFC Co Clerk driver (CO or XO driver in garrison) M35 2.5 ton truck x3 (one for each PLT in garrison) - 1SG commander, PFC/1st squad rifleman driver - SGT/Supply Sgt commander, PFC/2nd squad rifleman driver - SGT/Armorer commander, PFC 3rd squad rifleman driver Note: Mechanic squad below was integral to the line companies of the battalion - part of HQ PLT, lived in our barracks, did PT with us, stayed with us in the field, not part of HHC except for needed support. (8-10 men w/some mix of BFV Hull & Turret mechanics, Wheeled vehicle mechanic, tracked vehicle, electronics, recovery mechanics?? - don't remember which specialties there were) (All mechanics armed with M3A1 Grease Gun except SQD LDR w/M1911) M88 - SSG (PSG HQ PLT)/SL Mechanic commander, SP4 Recovery mechanic driver, SP4 BFV Turret mechanic, PFC BFV Hull mechanic M113 - SGT/ASL Mechanic commander, PFC Tracked vehicle mechanic driver, SP4 BFV Hull mechanic, PFC BFV Turret mechanic M939 5 ton truck - SP4 wheeled vehicle mechanic commander, PFC Electronics mechanic driver
Love the channel, LOVE this video. Just mentioning? And perhaps there were a few others out there like me? My unit (1986-88) was the 5/8 BN, 8th Inf. Reg, 8th ID, in Mainz. My squad had an E6, an E5, a driver, (E4) and ... me (E3) and one other guy (E4). I was the '60/Dragon gunner (11BC2 out of Benning), and he was the '203 guy. We were it. In those 2 years I fired the .45 once (never issued), the Dragon once, and the '60 about a Million times. For laughs? in 1987 I was also issued an M249 SAW. For those that know? Yes ; Whilst firing at Graf, I exited the '113 Rocking the '60 + 300rds, the SAW (on my back w/2 ammo drums), and my buddy Conrad had '203 with about 1 million rounds in a backpack full of Magazines. We weren't the only short squad in that Platoon, either. I DO, however, love seeing how it was "Supposed" to be.
During the 1980s, at least some of the Rifleman/snipers were armed with the M21 rifle with ART scope. No idea how widespread that was, but know it was true in some organizations (4/54 Mech). There were lots of M14s for the Marksmanship unit at FT Benning to convert.
When I was in a Mech Bn in Germany, my unit transitioned from the 113 to the M2. At one point (post drawdown?) we were so short-staffed that only one platoon in each company was full-up with dismounts, and the other two platoons carried one dismount in each Bradley for local security..they were essentially light tanks at that point...Also, a SAW ND inside a buttoned up M113 makes one hell of a mess.
@@goforbroke4428 1/6 IN 1 AD Vilseck. The BN went through transition during or just after DS. I actually went "TDY" to another BDE for DS and ended up in 3/35 AR MOS 11C. The ND of the SAW happened in the fall of 1989 if I remember correctly
My first active duty assignment was the B Co., 7th Battalion, 6th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 1st Armored Division, Bamberg Germany. I arrived there in mid-October 1989 after basic/AIT and the "11 Mike" Bradley course on Sand Hill at Ft. Benning. When we arrived on the kaserne from the train station, the driver took us by the motorpool filled with rows of M113s. I asked, "Where are all the Bradleys?" and he laughed and said, "We don't have Bradleys!" Then two weeks later, the Berlin Wall came down.
One of the possible variants not explored though suggested was to abandon the M47 Dragon ATGML for armored infantry. There were four TOW launchers in the platoon, which was more than sufficient medium to long range AT capability. The M72 LAW or M136 (AT4) was sufficient for close in defense. Then redesigning the rear deck, so that TOW reloads were carried in external armored ammo boxes. This would have given enough room for nine dismounts, a dismount leader and two four man fire teams. Each fire team would have a M203/M16 combination, an M249 SAW and two M16s. Evidently the main objection was the increased vulnerability of the loader reloading the TOW launchers through the rear deck hatch.
1983-84 1st ID at Panzer Kaserne. As an E-1 I was the driver. Then 203 gunner. Then volunteered for M-47 Dragon gunner. I remember being told that we would downsize to J-series squads. PCS back to Ft. Riley. The M113 served us well. And we heated our C-rations with the exhaust using metal coat hangers!
Very good, I was assigned to A/1/7 Infantry 3ID from 84-85. We had the then new Bradley IFV. I was the M-60 gunner. Nobody's that I knew was assigned as a sniper. 🙂
EXCELLENT!! Brings back a lot of memories. (50 seconds in) Ahhhh, the "pickle suit". Army uniform designer: I know! Let's throw out the Jungle Uniform and create a tight-fitting field uniform designed to make everything fall out of your pockets. 1st Infantry Division, Flat Earth with tall prairie grass; must be Fort Riley, Kansas. Only one man has a 30-round magazine, M16A1 rifles and a M203 grenade launcher. My life for a while. The Big Red One was in Kansas in 1975; they supported my R.O.T.C. summer camp (Basic training for officers). In 1977 - 78 (my time as a Mech Infantry rifle platoon leader in 2nd I.D.) there were two Mech battalions (1/17 and 1/31) and one tank battalion (1/72) in my brigade; all other battalions were leg-infantry. They must have rearranged things later. I never in my life heard of a sergeant F.O. and F.O. Radio-Telephone Operator (R.T.O.) attached to a rifle platoon (radio hand-set looks like a telephone with a push-to-talk button). Sergeants and Platoon Leaders were trained to call in Artillery for themselves. There was supposed to be a 2LT F.O. and R.T.O. per company, but I never saw them in the field with us (units in Germany had a different training policy). The P.L.'s track had two radios (and two great big "shoot me" antennae) for platoon frequency and company frequency, but only one R.T.O. during dismount (had to switch frequencies and often missed getting information). The Assistant Platoon Sergeant position was never official to my knowledge. As mentioned at 5:34 the Platoon Sergeant (P.S.) was Track Commander (T.C.) of one of the other tracks and that squad's senior Team Leader (T.L.) took over my track when I dismounted. The P.S. commanded the vehicle element after dismount. I never had more than about 7 men per squad. My senior sergeants had learned the hard way that Viet Cong RPG teams liked to sneak around behind armored vehicles. They insisted on leaving a rear-facing "air guard" in each track. This meant the dismount element was Squad Leader, junior Team Leader, Machine-gunner, and Assistant Gunner (A.G.); not a lot of bodies. There were no spare machine-guns, just the one per squad. The L.A.W.'s were useless; the average soldier could complete a forward-pass farther than he could hit a tank with a L.A.W., and those tiny 66mm rockets were the same as the original WWII bazooka; they couldn't take out a T-34 in 1950. I will never understand why we didn't just copy the RPG. Whenever you see men piling out of an A.P.C. notice that they carry almost no gear ("Going Hollywood"). The M113 has more room on the inside than any other A.P.C. every made - and yet there is no room for your rucksacks. The floor was lined with ammo cans and canned rations. The rucksacks are hanging off the sides (and sometimes ripped off the sides). You were lucky to carry two Dragons per track - those things are big! And remember, Dragons and the L.A.W. are single-shot; you better not miss - and yet we often did in training (so much harder than it looks).
I was in the 1st ID mechanized right at the transition from the M 113 to the Bradley.. Everyone who reupped went to Bradley school I got out but the way the recruiter explained it to us was the M 113 was like a battle taxi..you drove to the battle dismounted and were basically a leg until it was time to move.. A Bradley is a IFV that can contribute to the fight even against armor ..of course the M 113 had the 50 cal
With the formation of the 19C MOS, mechanized units are about to look a lot different. My son is considering reclassification to 19C due to the large reenlistment bonus. Can you make a video that breaks down the new mechanized units? I know indantry and armor MOSs will combine to create these units.
Well done. I served in the US Army Infantry from 1985 to 1994. Your information is remarkably accurate. And yes, as a machine gunner with the 1/17th INF Buffalos in the 2ID, Korea, I can assure you we were issued the M1911 handgun as a sidearm. I've also had the honor of working with One Shepherd Leadership Institute over the past four decades, as well as on multiple Department of Defense contracts. The anemic US Army Infantry squad structure comes up in discussion often. Most of us, including One Shepherd, agree that even the USMC Infantry squad at 13 Marines (now just 12) is left slightly short-handed. The Infantry should be a 14-man squad with a squad leader, deputy squad leader, and three fireteams of four Warriors. The last fireteam includes a 3-man MG crew with a fireteam leader carrying the grenade launcher to cover dead space. This configuration offers not only enough combat power to project the squad in offense, but also enough force protection assets in defense and stability/security operations. For Mechanized Infantry, the armored vehicle, auto cannon, and crew form an entire fireteam. These two or three Warriors replace an entire fireteam from the Mech Infantry squad. Ideally, this would leave the Mech Infantry squad at either 11 or 12 Warriors, depending on the vehicle platform.
Marines switched to 15-man squad. I can see one problem with 12-man mech squad(couple of them to be honest): 1.There's no modern IFV or APC in existence capable of carrying 12 fully equipped dismouts. In fact vehicle with such capability and proper protection, mobility, fire power wold be as big, as heavy and as expensive(if not more) as MBT. It gets even more complicated with wheeled vehicles. I don't think that even US Army will be able to field such a vehicle in sufficient numbers. 2. What's the point of such large number of dismouts? What kind of tasks such a big unit is supposed to perform? 3. Demographics. Modern armies are facing the problem man shortages. Slowly there's just less and less people willing to serve in the military or capable of filling the empty ballots. Because of that militaries tend to raplece soldiers with technique whenever it's possible, including squad level, not the opposite. In can see 14-man rifle squad working only at the expense of weapons squad. US Army is going in the exactly opposite direction. Instead of increasing the number of dismouts they plan to retain three 9-man mech squads but this time carried by 6 instead of 4 IFVs. IMO people proposing turning squads into mini platoons doesn't really know however this works or what problems come with it. Infantry squad doesn't work as a separate unit but as a part of platoon and company. You can't make such a proposition without taking to account higher echelons.
@@norbi1411 - The USMC Infantry squad has been 13 Marines since 1939. Today, the Marines are experimenting with two new squad structures - a 12-man and a 15-man squad. But neither has been officially adopted yet. So, the USMC Infantry squad remains at 13 Marines. As small as the M113A3 is from the outside, it turns out to be quite a large internal capacity. Both the M113A3 and M1126 Stryker were built with the capacity to carry 11 Soldiers. Both vehicles can be deployed globally by USAF heavy lift aircraft. These vehicles railhead easily, and can also be deployed en masse by ship. The M113A3 and M1126 Stryker have a crew of two, a driver and commander. This leaves for dismount two 4-man fireteams plus the squad leader. The US Infantry squad is supposed to have three maneuver elements led by a squad leader, regardless of whether they are Light or Mechanized. The M113A3 and M1126 compose three maneuver elements - two maneuver fireteams dismounted, plus the vehicle and crew forming the third maneuver element. So, 11 Soldiers fit into these two vehicles. They are deployable in these two vehicles. And with either of these two vehicles, the Mechanized Infantry squad has enough combat power for the offense, and force protection for the defense. As to your last point about militaries shrinking in size...yes. That happens when governments convince themselves that their military is an "un-necessary expense." Then a war erupts. The military is either completely defeated in just days and the entire country falls to an invading enemy. Or, the military suffers enormous casualties and loss of human life before the government finally admits that the military is very necessary for the nation's survival.
@@christopherlarsen7788 I'm far from an expert, but I have had the chance to actually try all kinds of squad and platoon organizations in a virtual environment, and have had many discussions about the optimal squad layout would be for various scenarios with both currently serving and retired members of various armed forces. An observation that often comes up that I agree with is that many Bluefor squads try to do too much, back during the cold war the Soviet doctrine of "Send a platoon if they send a squad, send a company if they send a platoon, if they send a company..." meant that smaller Bluefor formation were expected to be comparable in combat power to Soviet formations one step above them, and this is still coloring doctrine today by pushing down specialists and equipment to lower level formations arguably resulting in "bloating". This will only get worse as the battlefield becomes more technological, things like UAV operators are already becoming part of units all the way down to the squad level, and they are just the first in an inevitable stream of specialists required to operate whatever hits the battlefield next. I question whether larger squads are really the answer, and I would instead suggest that instead of trying to make our squads be able to act like platoons just letting them be squads instead. I would love to hear your thought on what a smaller platoon would do worse than the very large squad. I know it's heresy to say but I think the standard Russian squads and platoons are worth taking inspiration from when considering the future.
@@christopherlarsen7788 Decision to adopt new infantry squad structure was made like two years. "As small as the M113A3 is from the outside, it turns out to be quite a large internal capacity. Both the M113A3 and M1126 Stryker were built with the capacity to carry 11 Soldiers. Both vehicles can be deployed globally by USAF heavy lift aircraft. These vehicles railhead easily, and can also be deployed en masse by ship." First of all those 11 soldiers includes crew which is still 2-3 guys short to what you proposed. Second of all both of them are not IFVs but APCs. As it comes to the rest are you for real? M113 is an ancient design not fit for present, not to mention future battlefield. It offers none in terms of firepower or protection to it's crew. Stryker is capable of carring 9-man squad(which according to you is still not enough) but they all seat on benches. Now compare it to German Puma or Boxer, where every guy has it's own seperate mine protected seat. Not to mention that Stryker is still an APC. Bradleys dismounted element is about six people, and there's no indication that this will change with introduction of OMFV into service. "his leaves for dismount two 4-man fireteams plus the squad leader. The US Infantry squad is supposed to have three maneuver elements led by a squad leader, regardless of whether they are Light or Mechanized. " Nope. If I remember corectly form US Army manuals in both Stryker and Bradley units after squad dismounts vehicle crews falls under command of Platoon Sgt. who typically doesn't dismount, and there's no indication that this will change with introduction of OMFV into service. Also could you show me that third maneuver element in the light infantry squad? "As to your last point about militaries shrinking in size...yes. That happens when governments convince themselves that their military is an "un-necessary expense." " In 2021 USA spent on it's military over 700 billion dolars and plan to spend even more this year. I doubt that US goverment sees it's army as an "un-necessary expense"? But even with that kind of money it's very hard to beat bad demographics.
@@sproge2142 "I know it's heresy to say but I think the standard Russian squads and platoons are worth taking inspiration from when considering the future." Nah dude. Russian platoon with three IFV is designed to operate almost solelly as a whole unit. Losing even one vehicle would mean that the whole platoon could lose it's operational capability. It works in Russian Army which still relies on conscription and it is not as saturated with modern technology at lowest tactical level as Western armies. IMO Western armies should go in the opposite direction, something what US Army plans to do with mech. platoon after OMFV will replace old Bradleys. While the dismount element limited to 5-6 men is uneviteble, on the other hand it also means that platoon could get extra fith IFV which would carry all the "force multipliers" like UAV, UGV or loitering munition. www.ndia.org/-/media/sites/ndia/divisions/robotics/2019-quarterly-meeting/hatfield-presentation.ashx
At about the 3:40 mark you theorized that the M-60 gunner would have a .45 caliber sidearm. My memory from those days tells me that they didn't. The had only the machine gun.
Funny thing is? From 87-'88 I was the '60 Gunner. All our E7s and above were Vietnam vets. I wasn't until early 1988 that my 1stSgt noticed I didn't have a .45. He had me qualify with one at 7meters with him and about 50rds, gave me an Expert on my sheet, and I never saw one again.
Early to mid-80s 2nd Armored Division Ft. Hood, TX - every 60 gunner on a Brad had a 1911 as a backup weapon in our Bn. Also CO, XO, 3 PLT Ldrs and the SQD Ldr of the mechanics did too.
@@sedav4500 - I was in the 5th ID at the that time. We were the last in priority for resourcing. So our MTOE probably had .45s "required" but not "authorized". I guess that's why I never saw any of our M60 gunners carrying them.
The m113 in the army it’s pronounced one one three I know that’s nitpicking but thought it would help besides that love your videos keep up the great work
My unit the 7th battalion-6th infantry regiment changed over the the Bradley just as I was transferring to the 101st Airborne Division in March 1990. Cold Steel
Don't hate on the 113, that damn thing was to the army what Legos are to children. Aside the standard infantry taxi, there was an ADA variant, and improved TOW variant, some became command vehicles, some armored ambulances, mortar carrier, the smoke guys had them. I've seen them LAPES ed out of the back of C-130s, they were on our M-60/MK-19 range as targets. I took my first ride in a Bradley at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in MD around '87/88, the 113 soldiered on for a long time after that. I'll bet some retired E-9 converted one into a gut truck.
Random thought: every man in the dismount element carries a 100-round belt of machine-gun ammo. The smaller the dismount element, the fewer bullets brought along. Add in the Squad Automatic Weapon... Now what?
Kind of shocked you didn't include 24th mech. Sidenote, am I the only person who wishes he would go back to more write ups on his website, as opposed to videos?
A guy told me that s how they actually rolled out of that thing in DESERT STORM. M-60 dropped to the ground laying cover . And everyone else watched high and low. While everyone else spread
I wonder why the M113 does not have a name it’s just called armored personnel, carrier, or a PC and it’s not named after a person like so so much of the military ships and planes and vehicles or you know like yeah, most planes being named after lightning or eagle, etc. strange also, I wonder how the introduction of the striker or the impact that had on the make a nice day and fun trip
Anyway, the late 80s to mid 2000s in foundry said what I’m most familiar with Saturday I didn’t got the server because I had lost eyesight on one eye. We had a mandatory service in Sweden back you when I was supposed to but Alice. I couldn’t even be a military office person or something like that either. I wanted to help the troops but oh well. NM 60 and a sore in the same squad so much fire power! But why did they use dragons and not them 730 lol? I figured the logo is a more modern weapon than the dragon and the OK so it was called rifleman sniper, unlock designated, marksman back then interesting.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Note, the "Bradley Commander Hop" demonstrated in the video at around 7:48 was the official doctrine for a hasty dismount (and a variation of it is still on the books for Platoon Leaders in Bradley-equipped infantry and cavalry units). But, it wasn't practiced by all units for obvious clunky reasons.
Make video on Indian army structure
A small request - your production values are excellent, but the glitch-effect you use for transitions goes on just often/long enough to be something of a potential epileptic/migraine trigger. If it could be reduced to a single glitch-cut, that would be an improvement, even if you kept the oldschool channel change sound. Love your stuff otherwise!
I'd love to see anything about the dutch forces. Squad layout, battle tactics, anything! I came across your channel about a week or two ago and I'm running out of videos already. Great footage keep up the work! Absolutely love it!
@Patriot Wargaming Solutions "Death before dismount!" Cav and Armor hate to walk, even to chow.
I am a retired 11M who was a Bradley Master Gunner. You got a lot right but there was never this shuffling of crew around. If the Platoon Leader Dismounted his gunner (who may or may not have been a Master Gunner since they were in short supply) would remain in his seat. There was nothing he couldn't do from the gunner's seat that would require a move. Also, in all my years in the only pistols I ever saw were assigned to the Company Commander, the Company XO and sometimes Medics. Never had one assigned to a Dismount gunner.
I had the same thought, Philip - I never saw shuffling of crew in an armored vehicle, be it an APC or IFV. That might turn out deadly under fire. And even administratively, it would be a headache.
Issuing the sidearm to a machine gunner was the practice of MG teams. From what I've seen of most recent Mechanized Infantry units, the MG is issued to a single Soldier as if it were an auto rifle instead of an MG - M240, M249, or M60. That's sloppy. But, the US Army is relying on the support of the vehicle HMG or auto-cannon. You still see MG teams in some of the light brigades - Mountain, Air Assault, and Airborne.
@@christopherlarsen7788 My background is entirely as Mechanized Infantry so if Light Infantry MG crews were issued side arms I will take your word for it.
@@philipcampanaro8124 - So I'm told. But each unit very likely varies, depending on command priorities.
@@christopherlarsen7788 I think you are confusing, the mechanized units always relied in their vehicle for heavy close support or direct, so HMG is not only provided by the vehicle auto-cannon (if it have one) but by the HMG who are in company level, the platoon level MMG and squad level SAW.
Thanks for the feedback Philip. We demonstrated the crew shuffling mainly to show the intent of the official doctrine because a lot about the official Bradley doctrine is confusing to read about without visual help. We've posted a pinned comment stating that not all units followed this practice.
As for the pistol, this was mainly talking about when the M60 was a permanent part of the squad rather than a spare weapon as it was officially after the widespread adoption of the M249. Army doctrine for permanent M60 gunners and now M240 gunners has been to give them a sidearm. As well, I've had soldiers who served in the mechanized infantry in the 1980s as M60 gunners tell me that they carried sidearms.
As a light infantryman, it seems weird to imagine a 6 man dismounted squad with asymmetric fire and maneuver until I remember that the Bradleys provide the fire while the pacs do the movement.
Being armoured allows them to gain fire superiority without at risk of getting supressed by the enemy too.
Plus, remember, mech platoons were at least two squads, and light platoons had three squads and a weapons (machine gun) squad.
Being mechanized is a mess as an infantry man. At least in 1st cav
Yes, this is definitely not a large complement of dismounts, and it‘s going to be a serious problem if they are ever forced to operate away from their vehicle. The moment your vehicle gun can‘t support you, you are suddenly a very anemic rifle squad with extremely limited options.
Hence why you should always be backed up by „leg“ infantry.
Little bit more fire power than a weapons squad lol
Your graphics and motion design are getting better and better, it's a pleasure to discover every new video!
"The problem with planning against American doctrine is that American commanders do not follow their field manuals, nor do they feel compelled to follow their doctrine."
Auftragstaktik is taught at west point
@@dylan4964 No shit? Literally every WW2 tactic is still studied today. Stalingrad is a good example. It's the mother of urban warfare.
@@nikolakaravida9670 bro its ok you can just say you dont know what it is.
@@dylan4964 Roflmao I know what auftragstaktik are, just don't see the point of wehrabooing about it when literally the entire war history post WW2 (and included) is studied at military academies
@@nikolakaravida9670 what does ww2 have to do with auftragstaktik? Its a prussian principle
Literally germany and "wehr" anything is irrelevant and your making yourself an absolute fool
I served in Baumholder Germany 8th ID 1/13th Infantry late 1982 through 1984, we still had M113A1's and A2's. We had the 11 man squads, I was an M203 gunner then a track driver until I got promoted to Corporal and became a track commander. It was my first mechanized unit after being in light infantry units in the 2nd ID in Korea and 7th ID at Ft Ord. I definitely preferred mechanized to humping 70 pound rucks up and down hills especially since I was an M60 gunner at Ft Ord. My Ft Ord unit ended up going back to Korea for Team Spirit in 82 and I remember struggling to climb up those hills with a full load and that 26 pound hunk of iron. Korea ain't nothing but hills and I was all of 155 pounds soaking wet at the time.
What was the M113 like?
@@davidwillis8623 it was fun to drive but it took a lot of upper body strength. The M113A1 had power steering with a steering wheel of sorts. The M113 had two manual steering/braking levers. It was a hoot to drive in the woods some of the most fun I've ever had. That two stroke Series 53 Detroit Diesel could spool up really quickly.
@@davidwillis8623 more space than the Bradley!
@@davidwillis8623 We had two 'sticks'; pull back on the left and the left track stops - which turns the vehicle to the left. As Maiedova said, not for the weak. What I learned was Hollywood taught me how NOT to drive; there are a bunch of men and equipment being thrown around back there - who can't see out. If you drive too fast, or turn quickly, or go over humps quickly then people can get hurt.
1:11 That sir is a Warrior. Notice the mud guards, smaller turret, different angle on the sides, and most importantly lack of TOW missiles.
Good eye! The shape of the turret looked wrong, but I didn't know why.
The focus was on allied forces in west germany. British mechanized formations were one of the staple formations in west german defense.
Sorry there were 2 Armor Battalions in Korea, 1/72 and 2/72. Both were in first Brigade with 5/20 Mech Infantry. The second battalion 1/5 was in third Brigade and was supported by 1 tank company from the first brigade. Love your videos. Please make more. Kyle Oberst 19E 2/72 armor 87 to 88
You said it before I did. 5/88-5/89 1-506 @ Camp Greaves. 1-5 was our sister in 3d Brigade and home of some good friends.
I guess it's hard to find operational history of units unless you go read the units diary. Very time consuming I bet.
@@alecjones4135 I had to basically dig everywhere to figure out what my unit did during the Vietnam war, but the best I could find was that they were there in 1969 and 29 guys were killed in country. Barely another word on that. Couldn’t figure out where they were stationed, what their mission was, if they were attached to anyone, etc
I remember 1-72 in 1HBCT when I was on Hovey (2012-13). They were over on Camp Casey with 2-9 Infantry, 302BSB, and 210th Fires while the rest of the brigade (1-15 Fires, 4-7 Cav, and 1BSTB) was over on Hovey.
All that has since been shut down. 1HBCT no longer exists, with all of Area 1 handed off to the ROK. All US maneuver forces are down at Humphreys. 210th might still be on Casey, but I think even they were shifted south.
Second to None
🫡
PASGT helmets and the M16A2s with Woodland BDU just Blare out 80s!
When I was in Mech Infantry in the mid to late 1980s from Private to Specialist E-4. I started as an M60 gunner even though I was by MOS as 11B1PC2 a qualified M47 Dragon gunner. Yes I was also Airborne qualified and sent to Mech Infantry. I handled the heaviest weapons like the M60 the most and the M47 Dragon. When we got the SAW, I was happy because it was lighter than the M60 and new. I was happy like getting a new toy from Santa. When we got new Privates slowly I became a grenadier then team leader and later track commander. Sometimes I became the PL's RTO due to my experience. I hated Mech Infantry very much that I got out of Mech to an Airborne Infantry Battalion in Panama. I found that Airborne Infantry was easier in technical skills and I knew much more in infantry skills tactically and leadership that was beat into me in Mech Infantry. Jumping out of airplanes was fun again because it's what I had enlisted for but long humping in the jungles of Panama sucked because I became the M60 gunner again. It got better as we got new Privates again from Airborne School. I went from M60 gunner in the weapons squad to Alpha team leader with an M203 in the 1st squad. What I found out that coming from Mech Infantry to Airborne was a Mech Infantry soldier was more capable technically than a Paratrooper and had more knowledge in doctrine wise to understand combined arms team operations for the European theatre. A Paratrooper only had the knowledge of succession of command to carry out the mission.
That’s a good read, man.
Hey, your production quality is amazing! From the graphics to the insert footage(witch is too good for the label "B Roll") to the little audio cues as things change. I hope you never feel like its not worth the effort. People don't always think about those details but they can FEEL when somethings lower quality. Keep it up!
Have to love those bush taxis, I was a grunt for about 9 years, and we went on battalion exercises with the MECH units, lots of fun. I was a tad confused when you mentioned the squad formations when dismounted, with the commander up front. The Australian army infantry units had the scouts up front, I was one of them. We’d have a forward scout, usually 20-30 metres Infront of the second scout, who would relay directions from the section commander. That being said, I love your content, from an analyst point of view, your spot on. Cheers
Mmm the formations dismounted is different because he was talking about US Mech forces. Each country does things differently from each other.
What you call scouts we called Point Men (not an official position now but was in WWII). Sadly, the reason for the trailing man is that after the enemy springs their ambush and gets the lead Point Man there is still someone alive to tell everyone where the bad guys are located. In training, I 'died' every time I was the Point Man; if the enemy is doing their job (and the cadre did) you won't know they are there until it's too late.
Content request: to put this Cold War formation into context, I'd love to see the same discussion for Vietnam era M113 rifle squads, even if its exactly the same.
I was a track commander (M113), stationed in Mainz Germany with 3/8 INF Mechanized between 1986-88. We rarely had full squads. Overall I served between 1984-88 and it was an interesting time of transition. From Steel pots to kevlar helmets, from cotton and wool to synthetics and gor-tex. M151 jeeps to HMMV. M60 tanks to Abrams. Our machine gunner was never issued a side arm. I was a Corporal (E4) but was a track commander, though most TC’s were E5 or E6 rank. Those were interesting times. I loved having the M2 .50 cal mg ….except when I had to lug that pig up the “Stairway to Heaven” in Baumholder. Salute to All who served !
I was stationed in Baumholder 82-84 1/13 INF, I was also a Corporal TC towards the end. It's funny but we went to Graf and Hohenfels to train, never actually did any major training in Baumholder. We were always shorthanded as well, they were offering huge re-enlistment bonuses at the time.
I'm one of the last of the old timers like you, 1/6 Infantry, Illesheim, West Germany 1985-1987. 1st Armored Division (aka the Speedbump Division as we were the closest division to the Fulda gap). I drove a M113 and was a SAW gunner. Might I add; C-rations to MREs, M16A1s to M16A2s, black boots to tan, Cobras for Apaches, Hueys to Blackhawks (we had attack helicopters and tanks on our post). There have to be a dozen other things that changed at the end of Ron Regan's Cold War Army.
I was at Mainz from Jan 83 to mid Dec84 with CSC 2/28 Blacklions became E Co 3/8 War Eagles M901s. He did not talk about us. We were on our way out the Bradleys were making us kind of redundant
@J Zahoff what year did y’all get Kevlar helmets?
@@goforbroke4428 …’85 or ‘86 ? ….
A breakdown of the PATRIOT missile battalion would be awesome.
Finally true Bradley content, this is what I subbed for!! Excellent video keep up the good work.
I ETS'd from Germany in early 87, we were always understrengthed, we didn't have the M-249, our M-60 guy had a .45, and I was the assistant gunner, grenadier, I carried a 203. And also trained with the Dragon.
As a Wikipedia main editor for Orders of Battle, especially the Cold War and Modern Day, I hereby deem thee amazing XD. Btw, if you could do British/Soviet/French forces too (I know you focus on the Americans), that would be awsome!
Hey man thank for your service
@@MH-tr4kn ha ha ha thanks lol
Ah, yes TH-cam videos. The most reliable of all sources.
I love your new style of graphics. This made a lot more sense and better understanding of the topic.
Looking forward to the explanation of transition from the 3x6 platoon formation to the 2x2 platoon to the 3x9 platoon. Helpful to have this history because for some reason the current Infantry thinks the 9-soldier squad was something handed down on stone tablets.
Id imagine it has something to do with the way the platoon leaders, and to a larger extent, infantry officers are trained and used. Being that there has never been a dedicated mech infantry officer in the US army, all 11A (inf officer) are trained to the light infantry baseline. And once they are in the operational force, they will rotate between light and mech infantry units. Since they aren't trained to understand mech units and aren't continuously assigned to mech units, the institutional momentum was towards making the mech units resemble the light units. This is evidenced by the trend towards divorcing the vehicles from the squad and remodeling the squad to resemble light infantry squads.
In the dollar 94 in the early 80s, the only 45 in the platoon was carried by the medic. We also didn't have extra 60s, only the 60s in the squads. You're right about the under strength modifications. We were always under strength in the 194th. Our first trip to NTC in 1982, we were back filled with engineers just so we could field a third squad. NTC was still issuing out M48s in those days.
Yes, in 1979 our brigade from 5th Infantry Division borrowed the California National Guard's vehicles rather than spend the money to bring our own.
Some of the Bradley footage is giving me some vibes that it is second to none
Great video! Some more detail for you (sorry for length of post) - Early 1983 - the very first battalion equipped with Bradleys - 1/41 Infantry 2AD Ft. Hood, TX - organization and tactics were still being tested, explored, ironed out. Some may have been carryover from 113 organization.
32 man platoons - 3 nine man line squads/1 five man HQ squad. All with M-16A1 unless otherwise noted.
HQ squad had PL as commander(M-16A1 & M1911) SGT as gunner(also HQ squad ldr), PFC driver, PV2 RTO and PFC/PV2 rifleman from 2nd squad (to create two man dismount security with the RTO for the track in defense and replacing PSG who commanded 2nd squad BFV).
1st & 3rd Squads - SSG/SL commander (One would be Mstr Gunner), SP4 gunner, PFC driver, Dismounts -SGT/ASL (M203), SP4 Machine gunner (M60 & M1911), SP4 Grenadier (M203), SP4/PFC Rifleman/Anti-Armor/Asst MG (M47 Dragon-dependent on mission), PFC/PV2 Auto Rifle x2 (M249 SAW labeled weapon mounts in BFV but not issued yet - M16A1s w/bipod used).
2nd Squad - SFC/PSG commander, SGT/ASL gunner, PFC driver, Dismounts - SSG/SL (M203 - overall dismount cmdr if PL stayed mounted), SP4 machine gunner (M60 & M1911), SP4 Grenadier (M203), SP4/PFC Rifleman/Anti-Armor/Asst MG (M47 Dragon-dependent on mission), PFC/PV2 Auto Rifle x2.
Attached SGT FO, PFC FO RTO, SP4/PFC medic would ride w/HQ squad.
Of note - PLTs always under-strength - manpower priority was Germany so constant poaching of troops stateside to fill overseas slots. Only track commander to dismount would be PL at times - Gunner would run turret solo/no replacement for PL.
Initial issue of BFVs had 7 dismount seats - one day in late 83 word came down would be 9 man squads - spent a day in the motor pool removing the 7th seat (the one right in front of the turret door) in all BFVs! M2A0 BFV so all 6 M231 FPWs on board.
Only 13 BFVs per company (needed to equip as many Batts as possible) so none for XO -rode the Jeep/113/Deuce and a Half in the field.
M1911s - CO/XO/PLT LDR x3/SL of mechanics/M60 gunners - all got chest rig holsters except the 60 gunners!!! The guys humping the pig all found creative ways to retain the pistol!😁
HQ PLT
M2 IFV - CPT/CO commander, SP4 gunner, PFC driver, Dismount - PFC RTO
M113 - SGT/Commo Sgt commander, PV2/Co Runner driver, Dismount - SP4 NBC specialist
M151 Jeep - 1LT/XO commander, SP4/PFC Co Clerk driver (CO or XO driver in garrison)
M35 2.5 ton truck x3 (one for each PLT in garrison)
- 1SG commander, PFC/1st squad rifleman driver
- SGT/Supply Sgt commander, PFC/2nd squad rifleman driver
- SGT/Armorer commander, PFC 3rd squad rifleman driver
Note: Mechanic squad below was integral to the line companies of the battalion - part of HQ PLT, lived in our barracks, did PT with us, stayed with us in the field, not part of HHC except for needed support. (8-10 men w/some mix of BFV Hull & Turret mechanics, Wheeled vehicle mechanic, tracked vehicle, electronics, recovery mechanics?? - don't remember which specialties there were)
(All mechanics armed with M3A1 Grease Gun except SQD LDR w/M1911)
M88 - SSG (PSG HQ PLT)/SL Mechanic commander, SP4 Recovery mechanic driver, SP4 BFV Turret mechanic, PFC BFV Hull mechanic
M113 - SGT/ASL Mechanic commander, PFC Tracked vehicle mechanic driver, SP4 BFV Hull mechanic, PFC BFV Turret mechanic
M939 5 ton truck - SP4 wheeled vehicle mechanic commander, PFC Electronics mechanic driver
Love the channel, LOVE this video. Just mentioning? And perhaps there were a few others out there like me? My unit (1986-88) was the 5/8 BN, 8th Inf. Reg, 8th ID, in Mainz. My squad had an E6, an E5, a driver, (E4) and ... me (E3) and one other guy (E4). I was the '60/Dragon gunner (11BC2 out of Benning), and he was the '203 guy. We were it. In those 2 years I fired the .45 once (never issued), the Dragon once, and the '60 about a Million times. For laughs? in 1987 I was also issued an M249 SAW. For those that know? Yes ; Whilst firing at Graf, I exited the '113 Rocking the '60 + 300rds, the SAW (on my back w/2 ammo drums), and my buddy Conrad had '203 with about 1 million rounds in a backpack full of Magazines. We weren't the only short squad in that Platoon, either. I DO, however, love seeing how it was "Supposed" to be.
During the 1980s, at least some of the Rifleman/snipers were armed with the M21 rifle with ART scope. No idea how widespread that was, but know it was true in some organizations (4/54 Mech). There were lots of M14s for the Marksmanship unit at FT Benning to convert.
Would be cool to see a US mech infantry tactics and doctrine video similar to the Russian motor rifle one you did a while back.
Very cool overview of the squads themselves and how they changed. It would be very cool to see this at the company level, too.
When I was in a Mech Bn in Germany, my unit transitioned from the 113 to the M2. At one point (post drawdown?) we were so short-staffed that only one platoon in each company was full-up with dismounts, and the other two platoons carried one dismount in each Bradley for local security..they were essentially light tanks at that point...Also, a SAW ND inside a buttoned up M113 makes one hell of a mess.
HardcoreFourSix what year was this sir?
@@goforbroke4428 1/6 IN 1 AD Vilseck. The BN went through transition during or just after DS. I actually went "TDY" to another BDE for DS and ended up in 3/35 AR MOS 11C. The ND of the SAW happened in the fall of 1989 if I remember correctly
@@HardcoreFourSix what about the transition from m113 to Bradley? What year?
@@goforbroke4428 sorry, it would have been late 1990 or early in 1991 during or right after Desert Storm
@@HardcoreFourSix oh, cool.
My first active duty assignment was the B Co., 7th Battalion, 6th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 1st Armored Division, Bamberg Germany. I arrived there in mid-October 1989 after basic/AIT and the "11 Mike" Bradley course on Sand Hill at Ft. Benning. When we arrived on the kaserne from the train station, the driver took us by the motorpool filled with rows of M113s. I asked, "Where are all the Bradleys?" and he laughed and said, "We don't have Bradleys!" Then two weeks later, the Berlin Wall came down.
One of the possible variants not explored though suggested was to abandon the M47 Dragon ATGML for armored infantry. There were four TOW launchers in the platoon, which was more than sufficient medium to long range AT capability. The M72 LAW or M136 (AT4) was sufficient for close in defense. Then redesigning the rear deck, so that TOW reloads were carried in external armored ammo boxes. This would have given enough room for nine dismounts, a dismount leader and two four man fire teams. Each fire team would have a M203/M16 combination, an M249 SAW and two M16s. Evidently the main objection was the increased vulnerability of the loader reloading the TOW launchers through the rear deck hatch.
1983-84 1st ID at Panzer Kaserne. As an E-1 I was the driver. Then 203 gunner. Then volunteered for M-47 Dragon gunner. I remember being told that we would downsize to J-series squads. PCS back to Ft. Riley. The M113 served us well. And we heated our C-rations with the exhaust using metal coat hangers!
Driving The "M113" through small West-German towns (Early80's)...was FUN 😎😉
what a quality video ! 👏
Very good, I was assigned to A/1/7 Infantry 3ID from 84-85. We had the then new Bradley IFV. I was the M-60 gunner. Nobody's that I knew was assigned as a sniper. 🙂
Just started the video and I KNOW this is going to be so good 🤩
National Guard Mechanized units used the 1983 model until at least 2000 at least the majority that used(and a lot still do use) the 113.
i've read that a dedicated MOS for bradley crewmen is being introduced this October for the US army. Quite pleasing too hear.
These videos are wildly interesting. Love this content!
The 5th ID got Bradley’s and M1s in 1988/89. My unit was the first to get them at Ft.Polk
EXCELLENT!! Brings back a lot of memories. (50 seconds in) Ahhhh, the "pickle suit". Army uniform designer: I know! Let's throw out the Jungle Uniform and create a tight-fitting field uniform designed to make everything fall out of your pockets. 1st Infantry Division, Flat Earth with tall prairie grass; must be Fort Riley, Kansas. Only one man has a 30-round magazine, M16A1 rifles and a M203 grenade launcher. My life for a while. The Big Red One was in Kansas in 1975; they supported my R.O.T.C. summer camp (Basic training for officers). In 1977 - 78 (my time as a Mech Infantry rifle platoon leader in 2nd I.D.) there were two Mech battalions (1/17 and 1/31) and one tank battalion (1/72) in my brigade; all other battalions were leg-infantry. They must have rearranged things later. I never in my life heard of a sergeant F.O. and F.O. Radio-Telephone Operator (R.T.O.) attached to a rifle platoon (radio hand-set looks like a telephone with a push-to-talk button). Sergeants and Platoon Leaders were trained to call in Artillery for themselves. There was supposed to be a 2LT F.O. and R.T.O. per company, but I never saw them in the field with us (units in Germany had a different training policy). The P.L.'s track had two radios (and two great big "shoot me" antennae) for platoon frequency and company frequency, but only one R.T.O. during dismount (had to switch frequencies and often missed getting information). The Assistant Platoon Sergeant position was never official to my knowledge. As mentioned at 5:34 the Platoon Sergeant (P.S.) was Track Commander (T.C.) of one of the other tracks and that squad's senior Team Leader (T.L.) took over my track when I dismounted. The P.S. commanded the vehicle element after dismount. I never had more than about 7 men per squad. My senior sergeants had learned the hard way that Viet Cong RPG teams liked to sneak around behind armored vehicles. They insisted on leaving a rear-facing "air guard" in each track. This meant the dismount element was Squad Leader, junior Team Leader, Machine-gunner, and Assistant Gunner (A.G.); not a lot of bodies. There were no spare machine-guns, just the one per squad. The L.A.W.'s were useless; the average soldier could complete a forward-pass farther than he could hit a tank with a L.A.W., and those tiny 66mm rockets were the same as the original WWII bazooka; they couldn't take out a T-34 in 1950. I will never understand why we didn't just copy the RPG. Whenever you see men piling out of an A.P.C. notice that they carry almost no gear ("Going Hollywood"). The M113 has more room on the inside than any other A.P.C. every made - and yet there is no room for your rucksacks. The floor was lined with ammo cans and canned rations. The rucksacks are hanging off the sides (and sometimes ripped off the sides). You were lucky to carry two Dragons per track - those things are big! And remember, Dragons and the L.A.W. are single-shot; you better not miss - and yet we often did in training (so much harder than it looks).
A very informative video, thank you ☺️
Love the videos keep them coming
The boys goin in
Could you do a video about US Army air assault squads/operations?
Can you maybe do a video on the German army. I was a medic attached to a Panzergrenadier unit . I have no idea of the current state of the bundeswehr.
I was in the 1st ID mechanized right at the transition from the M 113 to the Bradley.. Everyone who reupped went to Bradley school I got out but the way the recruiter explained it to us was the M 113 was like a battle taxi..you drove to the battle dismounted and were basically a leg until it was time to move.. A Bradley is a IFV that can contribute to the fight even against armor ..of course the M 113 had the 50 cal
Fulda Gap is where I live!!
This is so cool, I like Cold War scenarios.
More 80s/Cold war stuff would be awesome
Me who plays Squad: *takes notes vigorously*
With those graphics averything seems clear and Simple.
Bradley's kick ass. They were so fun to drive, kicked the shit outta infantry and could slap a tank out of its range. Best army vic.
With the formation of the 19C MOS, mechanized units are about to look a lot different. My son is considering reclassification to 19C due to the large reenlistment bonus. Can you make a video that breaks down the new mechanized units? I know indantry and armor MOSs will combine to create these units.
Well done. I served in the US Army Infantry from 1985 to 1994. Your information is remarkably accurate. And yes, as a machine gunner with the 1/17th INF Buffalos in the 2ID, Korea, I can assure you we were issued the M1911 handgun as a sidearm.
I've also had the honor of working with One Shepherd Leadership Institute over the past four decades, as well as on multiple Department of Defense contracts. The anemic US Army Infantry squad structure comes up in discussion often. Most of us, including One Shepherd, agree that even the USMC Infantry squad at 13 Marines (now just 12) is left slightly short-handed. The Infantry should be a 14-man squad with a squad leader, deputy squad leader, and three fireteams of four Warriors. The last fireteam includes a 3-man MG crew with a fireteam leader carrying the grenade launcher to cover dead space. This configuration offers not only enough combat power to project the squad in offense, but also enough force protection assets in defense and stability/security operations.
For Mechanized Infantry, the armored vehicle, auto cannon, and crew form an entire fireteam. These two or three Warriors replace an entire fireteam from the Mech Infantry squad. Ideally, this would leave the Mech Infantry squad at either 11 or 12 Warriors, depending on the vehicle platform.
Marines switched to 15-man squad.
I can see one problem with 12-man mech squad(couple of them to be honest):
1.There's no modern IFV or APC in existence capable of carrying 12 fully equipped dismouts. In fact vehicle with such capability and proper protection, mobility, fire power wold be as big, as heavy and as expensive(if not more) as MBT. It gets even more complicated with wheeled vehicles. I don't think that even US Army will be able to field such a vehicle in sufficient numbers.
2. What's the point of such large number of dismouts? What kind of tasks such a big unit is supposed to perform?
3. Demographics. Modern armies are facing the problem man shortages. Slowly there's just less and less people willing to serve in the military or capable of filling the empty ballots. Because of that militaries tend to raplece soldiers with technique whenever it's possible, including squad level, not the opposite. In can see 14-man rifle squad working only at the expense of weapons squad. US Army is going in the exactly opposite direction. Instead of increasing the number of dismouts they plan to retain three 9-man mech squads but this time carried by 6 instead of 4 IFVs.
IMO people proposing turning squads into mini platoons doesn't really know however this works or what problems come with it. Infantry squad doesn't work as a separate unit but as a part of platoon and company. You can't make such a proposition without taking to account higher echelons.
@@norbi1411 - The USMC Infantry squad has been 13 Marines since 1939. Today, the Marines are experimenting with two new squad structures - a 12-man and a 15-man squad. But neither has been officially adopted yet. So, the USMC Infantry squad remains at 13 Marines.
As small as the M113A3 is from the outside, it turns out to be quite a large internal capacity. Both the M113A3 and M1126 Stryker were built with the capacity to carry 11 Soldiers. Both vehicles can be deployed globally by USAF heavy lift aircraft. These vehicles railhead easily, and can also be deployed en masse by ship.
The M113A3 and M1126 Stryker have a crew of two, a driver and commander. This leaves for dismount two 4-man fireteams plus the squad leader. The US Infantry squad is supposed to have three maneuver elements led by a squad leader, regardless of whether they are Light or Mechanized. The M113A3 and M1126 compose three maneuver elements - two maneuver fireteams dismounted, plus the vehicle and crew forming the third maneuver element.
So, 11 Soldiers fit into these two vehicles. They are deployable in these two vehicles. And with either of these two vehicles, the Mechanized Infantry squad has enough combat power for the offense, and force protection for the defense.
As to your last point about militaries shrinking in size...yes. That happens when governments convince themselves that their military is an "un-necessary expense." Then a war erupts. The military is either completely defeated in just days and the entire country falls to an invading enemy. Or, the military suffers enormous casualties and loss of human life before the government finally admits that the military is very necessary for the nation's survival.
@@christopherlarsen7788 I'm far from an expert, but I have had the chance to actually try all kinds of squad and platoon organizations in a virtual environment, and have had many discussions about the optimal squad layout would be for various scenarios with both currently serving and retired members of various armed forces.
An observation that often comes up that I agree with is that many Bluefor squads try to do too much, back during the cold war the Soviet doctrine of "Send a platoon if they send a squad, send a company if they send a platoon, if they send a company..." meant that smaller Bluefor formation were expected to be comparable in combat power to Soviet formations one step above them, and this is still coloring doctrine today by pushing down specialists and equipment to lower level formations arguably resulting in "bloating". This will only get worse as the battlefield becomes more technological, things like UAV operators are already becoming part of units all the way down to the squad level, and they are just the first in an inevitable stream of specialists required to operate whatever hits the battlefield next.
I question whether larger squads are really the answer, and I would instead suggest that instead of trying to make our squads be able to act like platoons just letting them be squads instead. I would love to hear your thought on what a smaller platoon would do worse than the very large squad. I know it's heresy to say but I think the standard Russian squads and platoons are worth taking inspiration from when considering the future.
@@christopherlarsen7788 Decision to adopt new infantry squad structure was made like two years.
"As small as the M113A3 is from the outside, it turns out to be quite a large internal capacity. Both the M113A3 and M1126 Stryker were built with the capacity to carry 11 Soldiers. Both vehicles can be deployed globally by USAF heavy lift aircraft. These vehicles railhead easily, and can also be deployed en masse by ship."
First of all those 11 soldiers includes crew which is still 2-3 guys short to what you proposed.
Second of all both of them are not IFVs but APCs. As it comes to the rest are you for real?
M113 is an ancient design not fit for present, not to mention future battlefield. It offers none in terms of firepower or protection to it's crew. Stryker is capable of carring 9-man squad(which according to you is still not enough) but they all seat on benches. Now compare it to German Puma or Boxer, where every guy has it's own seperate mine protected seat. Not to mention that Stryker is still an APC.
Bradleys dismounted element is about six people, and there's no indication that this will change with introduction of OMFV into service.
"his leaves for dismount two 4-man fireteams plus the squad leader. The US Infantry squad is supposed to have three maneuver elements led by a squad leader, regardless of whether they are Light or Mechanized. "
Nope. If I remember corectly form US Army manuals in both Stryker and Bradley units after squad dismounts vehicle crews falls under command of Platoon Sgt. who typically doesn't dismount, and there's no indication that this will change with introduction of OMFV into service. Also could you show me that third maneuver element in the light infantry squad?
"As to your last point about militaries shrinking in size...yes. That happens when governments convince themselves that their military is an "un-necessary expense." "
In 2021 USA spent on it's military over 700 billion dolars and plan to spend even more this year. I doubt that US goverment sees it's army as an "un-necessary expense"?
But even with that kind of money it's very hard to beat bad demographics.
@@sproge2142
"I know it's heresy to say but I think the standard Russian squads and platoons are worth taking inspiration from when considering the future."
Nah dude. Russian platoon with three IFV is designed to operate almost solelly as a whole unit. Losing even one vehicle would mean that the whole platoon could lose it's operational capability. It works in Russian Army which still relies on conscription and it is not as saturated with modern technology at lowest tactical level as Western armies.
IMO Western armies should go in the opposite direction, something what US Army plans to do with mech. platoon after OMFV will replace old Bradleys. While the dismount element limited to 5-6 men is uneviteble, on the other hand it also means that platoon could get extra fith IFV which would carry all the "force multipliers" like UAV, UGV or loitering munition.
www.ndia.org/-/media/sites/ndia/divisions/robotics/2019-quarterly-meeting/hatfield-presentation.ashx
Could You Do A Video About Infantry Platoons In The US Army During The Korean War.
I would like to see what the armored squads look like post 1993
Can do a couple videos about combat engineers. Light, airborne, mech and airassult.
At about the 3:40 mark you theorized that the M-60 gunner would have a .45 caliber sidearm. My memory from those days tells me that they didn't. The had only the machine gun.
Funny thing is? From 87-'88 I was the '60 Gunner. All our E7s and above were Vietnam vets. I wasn't until early 1988 that my 1stSgt noticed I didn't have a .45. He had me qualify with one at 7meters with him and about 50rds, gave me an Expert on my sheet, and I never saw one again.
Early to mid-80s 2nd Armored Division Ft. Hood, TX - every 60 gunner on a Brad had a 1911 as a backup weapon in our Bn. Also CO, XO, 3 PLT Ldrs and the SQD Ldr of the mechanics did too.
@@sedav4500 - I was in the 5th ID at the that time. We were the last in priority for resourcing. So our MTOE probably had .45s "required" but not "authorized". I guess that's why I never saw any of our M60 gunners carrying them.
In the 8th ID the Squad leader carried M203. I had to carry one everywhere during the 1980. Everything else is perfect..
Hopefully these guys can make one on the 82nd order of battle in the 70s and 80s. Those guys were very busy back then.
Great video. What was the organization/armament of the CHQ during this stretch?
The m113 in the army it’s pronounced one one three I know that’s nitpicking but thought it would help besides that love your videos keep up the great work
Now that you mention it! M-sixteen rifle, M-sixty tank, M-one-one-three track. I never questioned it.
My unit the 7th battalion-6th infantry regiment changed over the the Bradley just as I was transferring to the 101st Airborne Division in March 1990. Cold Steel
Don't hate on the 113, that damn thing was to the army what Legos are to children. Aside the standard infantry taxi, there was an ADA variant, and improved TOW variant, some became command vehicles, some armored ambulances, mortar carrier, the smoke guys had them. I've seen them LAPES ed out of the back of C-130s, they were on our M-60/MK-19 range as targets. I took my first ride in a Bradley at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in MD around '87/88, the 113 soldiered on for a long time after that. I'll bet some retired E-9 converted one into a gut truck.
1:10 this is FV510 Warrior
Great video!
1:10 is that a warrior vehicle?
Glad someone else noticed that as well
Wow cool video
I was a 11b in the 8th ID in the mid 80s and I never saw a scope on the M16a2. We were M113 equipped.
Random thought: every man in the dismount element carries a 100-round belt of machine-gun ammo. The smaller the dismount element, the fewer bullets brought along. Add in the Squad Automatic Weapon... Now what?
Good times, 8th ID Manheim Germany 1990-1992. We used 113 and Bradleys. 🇺🇲
Awesome video!!! B co. 1/61 INF, (eventually 5/6) 5th ID (M)-1988-92
Can you do 1970’s South African Armored Forces?
I see now why Team Yankee still used M113s and their Abrams was not the A1 variant as well.
Best book about a company sized unit ever.
Great stuff, as ever.
nice video battle order 👍
As i child i thought mechanized infantry meant mechawarriors or gundams
I mean who wouldn't!? That would be absolutely rad if gundams were mech infantry in reality!
same i thought they are exo infantry riding large vehicles
Evangelion theme starts playing
Kind of shocked you didn't include 24th mech. Sidenote, am I the only person who wishes he would go back to more write ups on his website, as opposed to videos?
Articles don't pay the bills
1:11 - not a Bradly nore a M113. It's a warrior IFV.
Could you make this video but for soviet BMPs and BTRs? Maybe also americal LAVs?
Would the 3 m72 laws be distributed to the other men along with the m47 dragon as to have max AT capabilities upon dismount?
Idk if you take request but I would love to see a video about air assault if that’s possible.
Wargame: red dragon players: 'just like the simulations!'
US Mech deck rules!
Still hoping for some west German infantry stuff
I like your content but please dont do the tv static thing for slide changes in the future.
As the manual says each squad gets a single PVS-4 day/night scope, I assume the Rifleman/Sniper gets it.
Make a video on Indian army structure 👑👑👑
Didnt know about the 3rd armd, my father was apart of that unit in germany
A guy told me that s how they actually rolled out of that thing in DESERT STORM. M-60 dropped to the ground laying cover . And everyone else watched high and low. While everyone else spread
I wonder why the M113 does not have a name it’s just called armored personnel, carrier, or a PC and it’s not named after a person like so so much of the military ships and planes and vehicles or you know like yeah, most planes being named after lightning or eagle, etc. strange also, I wonder how the introduction of the striker or the impact that had on the make a nice day and fun trip
One of the things that confuses me is why the modern mechanized infantry doesn't employ the vehicle crews as part of the squad.
Anyway, the late 80s to mid 2000s in foundry said what I’m most familiar with Saturday I didn’t got the server because I had lost eyesight on one eye. We had a mandatory service in Sweden back you when I was supposed to but Alice. I couldn’t even be a military office person or something like that either. I wanted to help the troops but oh well. NM 60 and a sore in the same squad so much fire power! But why did they use dragons and not them 730 lol? I figured the logo is a more modern weapon than the dragon and the OK so it was called rifleman sniper, unlock designated, marksman back then interesting.
If the boys had the kit and weapons we have today with the march of abttle at that time, we would look cool asf
Someone has been playing Combat mission Cold War...
What about US Airborne/Air Assault rifle squads/platoons in the 80s?
How topical for the early access release of Warno
M113 is a more simple system and it seems like it can carry more then Bradley😊
Do Americans call it an "M-One-Thirteen"? Though they were long retired when I joined, we referred to them as "M-One-One-Three" (Canadian)
Prepare to dismount!
All the M113 drivers in my battalion,1/6 Infantry, 1st Armored Division, had M203s to bloop out indirect fire in support of our dismounted infantry.