DANGEROUS ELECTRICS FOUND DURING AN INSPECTION - Electrician Life
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ธ.ค. 2024
- DANGEROUS ELECTRICS FOUND DURING AN INSPECTION - Electrician Life
Join Electricians Lee and Luke as they carry out a very thorough electrical inspection and testing procedure, otherwise known as an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) in order to assess the safety (or not) of the electrical installation. They find some pretty dangerous wiring faults along the way!
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He is such a down to earth guy lee he is a credit to anyone working with him
Well said!
He conducts himself well
Minor terminology nitpick -- Ohm's Law is V = IR. I don't think P = IV is named after anybody.
Why do you disconnect earths when IR testing? The tester is floating so surely a connection to earth should make no difference?
.? If the home owners is in and they are washing up/ touching radiatos etc.. would 500v going through the earth give them a shock? (Water bond).
@@deano6188 quite possibly. Always taught to not energise the earth during IR testing.
Quite funny at college and all they teach is IR live-CPC is the first IR test
@@shaungrain4921 College is based around an aspect of electrical installation and testing it moves you through module's to learn and become a Competent person...Have you hear of a "safe system of work?". Where 2 or more people are working on the same consumer unit/ incomer? ... both lock-off and brief each other of their planned works to keep each other safe and out of harms way. The customer is part of your "safe system of work" and "on-site risk assessment".
My question above was would/could you get a shock off bonded parts if left connected when IR test is done but more to the point would you take the chance?
The test should include mass of earth as well as the cpc, I fell foul of this years ago ( before RCD’s) when a plasterer screwed through a line into a skim bead, the whole building was ‘live’ and a guy pointing up some brickwork outside on metal ladders copped an unfortunate one !
Spotted the Steel Blue boots, worn nothing but them since discovering them in Perth in 2004. Definately the most comfortable steel toe boot.
you don't have to put down the plastic consumer unit as a c3 unless it's under the stairs, also did you test L_N on insulation resistance or do you bother ?
That board is still live while he’s caressing the outgoing lines and turning to camera, smart!
Lee that was a great Tutorial. I think that anyone that knows their subject can talk at ease on it and you certainly did today.
Its what I like about our trade ,there should be no loose ends and its all in the details. The combination of both physical and mental ability is what makes it such a good fit for someone as a career choice. Every job is different and you bring your accumulated skill set to the job at hand each time .Plus you never stop learning.
Finding that mis wiring to the shower unit was a good example of building up your question list for trouble shooting and problem solving.
"clonker" now that's a new one.
Glad to see you reviewing your use of the magnetic cable leads for testing. Always good to review and upgrade how your doing things and perfecting your skill set. Luke must be loving it. Lee is a good teacher, Different to Cory. He brings his own teaching method. One on One is always a great way to teach and learn. Plus the teacher learns twice in the teaching. Well done.
Happy New Year !!! Love the Masks.
Thanks a lot
Domestic electrics is not a skill, it is just manual labour. If you understand the 3 pin plug you have learnt about 80% of what is needed to undertake domestic electrics. There is no mental ability required, that is why there are no many sparky's good and bad out there.
@@deckertyrell3340 🤦♂️
@@deckertyrell3340 if you understand the 3 pin plug, could you please change my one way light to an intermediate and test it afterwards? thank you x
@@dreamer-2972 Sure, just fit a couple of kinetic light switches and a receiver at the light fitting. No cables or skill required.
Nice to see Lee on the channel again. Alongside your continued growth! Keep on trucking!
Thanks 👍
Did you do your IR test on the ring with all the appliances still plugged in? I can almost never get good readings that way, always seems to be a rogue appliance that causes a leakage!
I don’t comment that often but this video is I’m certain the best testing /eicr video on TH-cam. Lee’s confidence and down to earth way of explaining is A1. He certainly is an asset to your company Jordan and you should be proud. 👍 If testing was explained this way at College students would grasp it so much easier because what he did in the video is reality not in a perfect environment. Top top marks Lee keep them coming my friend.
Lovely comment thanks so much!
Great video - many thanks. One question - if I heard correctly, did you say that the voltage for the lighting in the conservatory was 120V because the earth wasn't connected, and became 240V when it was reinstated? Can you explain why this is
I'm no electrician, so I'm waiting for this as well.
its basically going to earth via the neutral if any light/appliance is switched on, not the cpc I think..
I'm no electrician, but I assume they were measuring potential between earth and live. In the disconnected run of earth cable, the voltage could be anything, perhaps affected by induced currents, so the difference between the cpc and earth becomes less than 230v.
Awesome video Lee and Luke! Luke and Reuben are so fortunate to have such knowledgable blokes to teach them!
Thanks!
In my country, we can only do EICR if we've taken a 200 hour course and got our certification. Also need at least 3 years on the field as an electrician. Btw we measure isolation resistance at 1kV.
Great video. Would you still record the faults found on the certificate even though they have been rectified during the eicr?
A B32 is supposed to hold a current of 38.4 amps for an infinite amount of time (32*1.2) so the shower definitely isn't going to trip anything, especially considering it won't likely be used for extended periods of time - even teenagers have limits to how long they shower. The sustained overload might shorten the MCBs life span but I have no idea how relevant that is. Definitely not correctly designed though, the load current shouldn't exceed the MCB rating. If the cable is large enough for a B40 you could fix that during the board change.
Been called out for an EICR after the previous 'electrician' spent 30 mins just standing at the board and wrote down his findings from there. yet no earth's were connected around the lighting circuits etc
The '1Mohm' limit is only for the global test of the installation using the reciprocal with all final circuits connect and loads removed, according to the regs in sec 6, is it not?
Not too bad, correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't you be checking th continuity of the bonding conductors if you can't see the whole run. (At the start of the eicr) Also, step 2 with ring r1 +rn , guidance note 3.good spot on the shower though.
One of the most useful videos you guys have done. Explained the process well and the tester functions. Well done
During IR tests, put one croc clip on live & neutral then the other croc on cpc. Fewer tests needed. Revert back to L-E & N-E if/when you have a low reading with L & N together to cpc
Great video as always guys. As you say, a thorough inspection but nothing more than should be done if an EICR is done properly. Unfortunately, as you said at the start of the video, so many sparkies nowadays do a fly by test giving sparkies like us that pride ourselves on doing a proper job a bad name. Very informative as always.
Thanks a lot
Yeah your right, the reason people do them so quick is because they are too thick to realise the responsibility they are taking on when they sign that document, and occasionally it will come back to bite them in the arse, although that doesn't happen enough.
Good video, nice find on the shower and conservatory lights, well done lads👍🏻. However would normally test continuity of bonding conductors, had a few that have been cut in past, especially the water when it's in a refurbished kitchen.
100%... Ive seen main bonding conductors removed by plumbers/kitchen fitters/gas engineers countless times. Tossers
Can I ask how the 2 both missed the cooker isolator switch, directly above the hob heat source and not within 300mm regulation?
C2 all day but missed it?
We can only presume they missed it. There is no hard and fast rule on distance. EGBR states 100mm clearance hob to socket horizontally
It was on the report as a C3 - no signs of overheating damage
@@artisanelectrics Jog on you con artist, robbing folk absolute blind with some on the work it’s embarrassing!
Did you have to pull the washing machine out etc? I’m due to have the test done on my housing association house later this month, and I’m dreading it. I’ve been in the house for 20 years and a test has never been done.
Good video but why don’t you use a wander lead to check continuity of main protective earthing conductors to gas and water intake ?
Agree James I always test with the r2 wander lead to check continuity. There are some that are fed to under a concrete flooring to a spike near the CU and then to the MET on the older buildings 👍
We usually do that but dont always have time to show everything in these videos
So how do yous IR test the ring final you skipped that bit ?
Did you test all 3 cores of the T&E at the same time for the IR reading?
Great content. Thanks guys.
Like the video Lee nice to see the pride that is taken in your work. It’s a shame other companies don’t have guys like you. I had a EICR test conducted in my council property London borough of Havering by a sub contractor. I would like to say how professional he was, start time 9:30 my DB is located under the stairs. Out from the cupboard by 9:40 job done thank you have a nice day. That’s all he done I would love to see the report. I had reported it nothing done as usual. Think this company has got the contract for the largest London borough in England how many homes could be at risk?
Query , when you did ZE the gas and water bond where still in place as they were still in the service head connection.
26:12 Nobody spot the cooker isolator switch directly above the hob and heat source and not flag it on the report? Easy one to miss there?
Good video, thanks guys.. I always go round with a socket tester on every skt b4 powering off, just to verify all is potentially good there; also determines what skts are on which cct , altho I appreciate if you do that on the Zs test it basically does the same thing.
Incidentally, you dont strictly need to do a Zs test if the circuit is rcd/rcbo protected as the trip test suffices to prove ADS.
Thanks for sharing the video !
Our pleasure!
Great video for me still learning 👍, when you do your figure of 8 on the rfc then carry out your tests is the highest reading then your R1+ R2 ? And whats considered a pass /fail ?? Cheers
Yes that’s right! The readings should all be the same though more or less unless there as spurs off the ring. There is no, pass or fail as such but a high reading would warrant further investigation as it could increase the Zs reading to a level too high to trip the MCB in the event of a fault.
20:30 Wasn't Ohms Law about resistance? However, nice video- Though I am from DIN EN/VDE standard and not so much BS, I still feel a high level of competence during all explainations. Things maybe different on the island- but turn out to be quite similar in the end.....
Belated congratulations on 100k subs, I remember the days of when you were just hitting 10k - 20k - great content keep up the great work.
Would the ZE not be invalid in this case as the bonding to the gas and water are still in place because they are direct from the main incomer head? This will give you parallel paths. This would be more a ZDB?
Gn3 suggests that the preferred method of providing Zs is calculation but both methods are good.
at 17:00 i thought what privet dirve?
What software does he use for EICR?
What soft water do you use to input your results for the EICR
Hi Lee, you disconnected the earth at the board to get your Ze but you forgot that all the bonding was connected together at the service head.
There was one red cable there (in the ring main breaker??) with about 1 cm of exposed copper. He made no mention of this!!!
Good video and good explanation of the power calculation but it's not Ohm's law.
Does the gas and water not affect the Ze test?
Yes, should have been disconnected
Yes we disconnect main bonding conductors and only test the main earth when doing Ze, then reconnect them before doing PFC/PEFC tests
Good job, well explained, top tradesman,
Shouldn’t be disconnecting cpc, on I r tests
Electricians did inspection/testing for an EICR about six months ago. They 'only' did two things (1)testing at the consumer unit and (2)put a mains socket tester in each socket. I very naively thought they'd inspect/test all the visible cabling, every socket (by removing the covers), every electrical item that was hard-wired in (such as light fittings) or able to be plugged into a mains socket and test for earth leakage current (protective conductor current) etc etc. I thought they'd be here all day but they left after about an hour and a half. Silly me 🤣
How much did you pay them to expect a full days work ?
Really appreciate you sharing and explaining Lee , going more in-depth of the work you are doing planning out and taking notes , as a new Sparky learning . This help Us massively to learn and take on bored the quality of work you do guys . And what in take to be A1 Sparky ⚡️👊
Really helpful but im studying and advanced lvl 3 diploma in electrical installations and ohms law is v=IxR ohms is resistance and he done it with power ?
Did you check the voltage before you performed the calculation or just assume
What do you think about the current system you use on the iPad to record the info? I’m a developer and hear from a few sparks that none of the systems on the market are really that good?
We use a great little system, will share a video on it soon.
What would a Good EICR test cost just about to move and just wondering what sort of cost I should be looking at?
I'm moving a bit out of your area (Gloustershire)
I live in the FOD in Gloucestershire and the company I work for charge about £120+ depending on size of the property
It really depends on local labour rates, we bill them for either half a day or a full day depending on number of circuits, size of house etc.
Great content, one critisim though. The ohms law bit, not a good idea to upsize breakers without proving the cable is adequate.
Good stuff but I'm gonna nit pick on the terminology. Doing the IR tests he said he was gonna "send 250V down" and if the readings were good, "send 500V down". Voltage doesn't go down anywhere: that's current. An IR test is to stress your insulation at a higher voltage at which it would normally operate to ensure it will not fail, or "leak". Voltage is electrical pressure. It's just like a water or hydraulic system where you might increase the pressure in the system to ensure you don't have any leaks or to show up a slight leak which is difficult to find. If you increase the pressure too much, the pipe would rupture. This is the same for voltage and why our insulation has a limit to the voltage it's rated at: too much voltage and the pipe bursts!
How did you prove the bonding to gas and water? Was it just a visual of the clamp and a small length of visible cable? I’ve seen a few where the short length of cable goes nowhere, which it could easily as you can’t check it’s entirety
We usually do a long wander lead test with one end disconnected
Nice job Lee and Luke...very clear and down to earth explanations throughout...well done!!
What's with that bright blue edging round the door and fuse box?
Looks like it was taped up for painting.
Ah, masking tape 👌
Why not reading taking for the bonding? You should always take a reading. I was on a job the other day where it looked good both ends but I got a high reading. Turns out they weren’t connected.
I know you guys are going back so likely everything will be double checked for a second time.
Other than that enjoyed the video tho 😀, I’m sure the lads will do this going forward but if I ever don’t have R1 and R2. I always check RN and R2.
Great work again
Quality video guys. I've just found your channel yesterday and I'm hooked. +1 subscriber
So with the Pull cord switch, are they Double pole? (We don't have electric showers here in Aust ) But if they are not, then the Pull cord would not disconnect the Active from the shower which would be a serious problem. Great work Guys.
Great vid.
Ffs just bought one of those R1 R2 links. Ha. Nice to see the shower getting properly tested. Did you take oven out as well?
A single socket connected to the breaker in the CU is surely a spur, not a radial.
Nice one fellas good videos 👍👍
Ha!Polarity!Isnt really a thing in the Netherlands.Of course in the breaker box we do attend to the polarity,but because we switch the phase AND the zero wire,it really doesn't matter how you put the plug into the socket.And the plugs are reversible.But offcourse the down-site is again that you cant get it all on one connection.But thats just for the electrician.☺
Another great video Lee! Fantastic descriptions and great explanations on reasonings for the way you choose to do things.
With number of points I always mark that as a limitation as I can’t guarantee if you have missed any sockets or lights etc
@6.39 - measuring Ze - disconnecting main earth - ok so far - but then you mention testing to live and neutral for Ze?
Surely Ze is the "true" fault/loop impedance seen "back" to the DNO source via the main earth conductor and live conductor ONLY ? ie the "main fault path loop" ( TNC-s in this case - so - even though the CPC in this case is bonded to the neutral conductor at the service head - Ze test uses only the main earth/cpc and live conductors only ? )
( reason for disconnecting main earth conductor is to remove parallel paths which would/might reduce the Ze reading - that is - measuring via "just" the main eth conductor gives a "true" Ze - which we need for calculating Zs etc and to thus appropriately rate final circuit parameters and breakers )
By contrast - to find PFC ( Prospective Fault Current) - you need the "lowest" impedance to give the highest possible PFC ( I = V/Z) so I can understand reconnecting the main eth to include parallel paths to reflect the "practical/in service case under fault condition - and then indeed testing live-neutral in addition as this may give a higher PFC. - However - I see that you used three connections on this test - I suspect that the test instrument is checking the "best" ( or worst depending on how you look at it) combination of eth/live neutral/live to give highest PFC - thus needing three connections ?
Of course - this test is to prove that the disconnection current rating of breakers is adequate ( usually rated at 6kA on domestic installations )
Great video guys 😎
Great video Lee & Luke of Artisan Electrics ! Haven't touched domestic installations in a long time, and this was a great Refresher Course !
Glad you enjoyed it
You can apply diversity to a 10kW cooker so the breaker could be 30 instead of 45A.
In NL its not allowed to switch lights or whatever in a bathroom, oly outside though wee don't have all that fuzz here. I think its more safe
I would always check the pull cord & cooker isolator in a domestic property, whether the readings at the shower are good or not.👍🏼
Agree! 9/10 problems and even potential overheating/arcing are at switch terminals in my experience, so I always do an inspection of these switches..
Congrats!
If you wasn’t to change the board having a shower and the bathroom lighting circuit should be a C2. Good video though 👍🏼
Excellent video. Very interesting to learn new EICR tips and techniques. Also, the honest comments of the magnetic test lead.
I enjoy watching you guys work, however I will continue to say, here in the USA, its pretty much turn it on, and hope it doesn't go BANG! 💥 If no breakers trip, tests complete and it works! 👍😁 Although we do have local government inspection officials come out and do at least two inspections, the rough in (1st fix) and then the final (2nd fix). They work for the city / county that you live that will come out at each phase to make sure things are following the code books. It makes sure that the installers are following the rules, however there aren't any tests like you guys do, its all visual only. You either get a pass or fail, and if its a fail then you have to fix what you missed and get reinspected again to get a pass. The inspections are based on the permits that you file with the local govt as to what you are doing, that is what will trigger the inspections. There are many that just don't get permits and do it, and then never get inspections.
WOW thats crazy, no testing?!
God bless America 🙏
Aren't UL lamp holders using a cardboard insulator as well? The ones we use in light fixtures that we make for the USA (brass lamp holder) don't have an earth bond either!
Its quite ironic here in the U.K. as the majority of the EICRs and testing carried out is to a pretty poor standard, half the time its just a number crunching tick box exercise. This is not helped by the fact the ones that do a proper job are slated for “overcharging” and let down by a set of poorly written guidance documents which everybody “interprets” their own way usually to circumnavigate a reg they have breached or to deny they have not followed good working practice.
We are by no means perfect as i am sure Artisan and other good youtubers on here will testify with some of the crap work they have showed up.
@@rattlehead85 my EICR was done in 45 mins without turning any circuits off. When he finished and said everything was fine no worked required, I then asked him what certain switches did and he had no idea. I then asked whether I needed an RCD and suddenly he stated I did and it would need adding.
Loving the videos guys, doing my inspection & testing in a few months so watching you guys quite a bit ✌🏼
Awesome
Good job Lee and Luke working well together.
Thanks 👍
good work Lee very informed information
Very interesting eicr video. I noticed you said you was doing a Ze test. Under those circumstances that would not be classed as such as you left the protective bonding conductors connected at the head (probably as it was sealed). As a result you have obtained a Zdb reading which is not an accurate test to confirm external earth fault loop impedance as one of your bonding conductors could be masking a poor earth connection. Also did i miss you did not carry out the PSCC test. Normally on a tn-c-s system both your pscc and pfc readings should be closely matched. On systems where it is not clearly visible what system you have obtaining these readings will give you an indication of what earthing arrangement you have. Use your limitations box to detail and explain why you are recording a Zdb to cover yourself. You highlighted at the shower pull that the neutral was hanging out. This reinforces why as electricians we should also be doing the “missing tests” from bs7671 and GN3 being the r1-rn test and the end of line L-N PSCC test to each circuit where feasible. BS7671 is a minimum standard and the test certs need to be updated as so much is missed on eicrs which could easily be obtained.
Also always carry out continuity tests before doing I.R tests as by blindly doing the I.R first could give you irrelevant readings if your cpc is discontinuous as was proved at your switch point.
Excellent content Lee 👌🏻👌🏻👍🏻👍🏻
In the UK at least the Ze is always done at the board at the origin of supply and not at the DNO supply head. 'Zdb' would be used if you wanted to show the Ze for a secondary board that wasn't at the origin eg. a Garage board.
Lee was also using the brand new all singing all dancing KT63 PLUS Multifunctional test which test PFC and PSCC at the same time.
Great video. 👍 you can't get everything 100 per cent right but your doing a quality job
Thanks 👍
Oh no another sparkie testing wrong when doing an IR test the earth must be connected to the earthing terminal 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Could learn a lot from Lee. A credit to your company
He's a good egg is Lee... damn good at what he does too! 😊
Never disconnect the protective conductors to IR test , if a neutral was nailed to a water pipe this fault would not have been found .
Did he test all 3 cores at the same time for the IR?
@@JAUS95 no he linked the L and N and tested them to CPC.
@@robertwilliams7222 why would you do this and not just test L-E and N-E? I'm an apprentice so just curious
@@JAUS95 less chance of damage to any equipment plugged in. There will be no potential difference (0V) between the live conductors.
@@JAUS95 if there happens to be a N-E fault/short and you do not connect L to N together you will stick your 500V IR test voltage across any connected loads and quite possibly damage them if you do a L-E IR test
Absolutely great video guys!
Thanks!
"Ze" reading... don't forget your water and gas are bonded at main head so there be no true "Ze".
Great vids love watching Artisan Electrics no matter who's in the spotlight. 🛠
Right remark 👍
Sorry did not see this reply until after i posted. 100% correct buddy. As he could not remove the protective bonding he’s ended up with a reading under Zdb constraints. You’d consider yourself very unlucky if it was the case that the Ze was actually missing and masked but still possible. 👌🏻
Great video 👍
Found exactly the same with the r1 r2 lead, gone back to the croc clips - much more accurate
Still watching, but I'm wondering was it usual in the past to have some circuits not on RCD?
In South Africa there are some cases where certain circuits can be off RCD (e.g. burglar alarm, fridge, emergency lighting), but it's not standard to find that. Only seen that once at a retirement village where lights were not on RCD so the residents didn't end up in the dark if they had faults.
Some times for example you can have a power circuit on a mcb and all your spurs rcd spurs so it's a local disconnect and segregated rather than when said device trips the rcd spur it wouldn't trip the breaker as well
Yes there is no set regulations,ideally the circuits you are talking about is best run on the surface and are not buried in wall ! the first reg for rcd was installed for use outside ie mowing the lawn etc
In a nutshell yes, it was usual to have circuit’s with no (30mA) RCDs in the past. When I trained back in the 1994 we were on the 16th edition regs, on TN systems the only thing that had to have RCD back then was sockets reasonably expected to supply portable equipment outdoors, it was usual to see just one of the sockets with an integrated RCD used for this too. Then in the 17th edition in iirc 2008 we had to RCD protect concealed unprotected cables buried in the walls
@@cumberland1234 yes ,when the reg come out to cover the circuits with a rcd the nic inspector on his visit said what's chance of an old girl drilling through a cable or coming down the stairs and the rcd tripping leaving her in the dark ! at least we have rcbos know 👍
In Finland RCD wasn't much used until late 1990's, before that only fuses. Wasn't until a few years ago that pretty much everything is on a RCD.
When you IR test at 500v do you unplug everything ,disconnect loads etc like smoke alarms you never seem to mention the hazards of damaging electronics
And if there's sensitive electronics you can't isolate, you're permitted to reduce the test voltage from 500 to 250V. The persons doing this should know it, and persons which don't know about this shouldn't perform such tests. 😉
He did a global I.r test , by linking line and neutral to earth u are taking away the potential difference between the two live conductors, he tested at 250 first and following a suitable reading he put to 500, so he did mention it and showed how he gets round it 👌
@@GeoB24 when you connect your L+N you are taking away any potential hence you are not skewing your results this does not protect electronics it just gives you a better result it certainly doesn't mean you should then test at 1000v you should always test at working voltage when appliances or loads are still in line hence my original question it might all have been disconnected
@@robertwilliamson3934 it’s 500v test for 230v circuits, and pretty sure it doesn’t damage equipment, obviously disconnect where possible but shouldn’t damage equipment
Sorry meant to read 500v
22:05 - That plonker didn't use / reattach cord grips either. Must be a plumber! 🙄
and colour blind!
We call em alligator clips across the pond.
Edit: I remember the Ohm's triangles from my physics days. Although, to me when you say Ohm's Law, my brain goes to V=IR.
Good job lads👌
Another good video but one thing even though the earth was visible at the water and gas it still needs testing could be cut or damaged
Definitely
Surely if you put that shower on a 40 amp you will have to upgrade the cable to a 10mm, 6mm should be on a maximum of 32 amp?
Looks like a 10mm in the junction box.
6mm clipped direct is 47A …
@@Marco-mg9tv yeah I'm aware what the cable itself can handle and that's only if u can prove 100 percent where and how the cable is run and clipped
@@robbiemarshall1481 yes agreed but unless it’s buried in the loft insulation which can be checked then 6mm Not going to be an issue if connections are tight and sound and no signs of thermal damage.if was 10mm and you don’t know 100% the reference method would you deem that cable has been selected appropriately??…
@@Marco-mg9tv if the shower was larger I would have it on a 10mm, in Scotland we have been taught to put a maximum breaker size of 32 amp MCB on 6mm, harsher regs here and bit of a grey area I suppose may be a factor