I'm guessing that I could be speaking for a lot of people that have been watching the "prep" for the final processes on the actual parts: We can't wait to see it !!
I'm new to TH-cam, I'm a retired tool and die machinist, made dies for military, oil field, aerospace etc,didn't have the machines like yours, you are a master at your trade,the knowledge that you share with all who watch your channel, are very lucky, I have worked with inconell, waspalloy duradie all extremely tough to work with but your machine make it look easy, I like your TH-cam channel, very informative Thank You
Peter as a old job shop manual machinist I tip my hat to you son .I hung my shop coat 3 years ago and still dont understand CNC I can spell it but that is it
I can't understand why your channel hasn't blown up yet.... Your content is absolutely first class! Keep up the good work and hopefully the rest of the world will catch on to your channel...
I wonder the same thing. Recently though I've been experiencing problems with Edge Precision videos playing. I have an older computer (very powerful though) that is running Windows XP. (I down graded for a reason) because of this, I cannot view Peter's great videos until they have been published for about 3 weeks - for some strange reason. Anyway, if others are experiencing the same problems, it would cause them to not subscribe.
Peter, you are the best! I watch all your video's, they are always a joy to watch! I even recommend it to my friends here in Europe. I'm a engineer/cnc mill/cnc lathe guy myself and really like the way you tackle certain difficulties like fixturing the part correctly. It reminds me of difficult jobs I manufactured throughout the years. Keep up the good work Peter. Your camera work is really nice. And your content is GOLD!
You know these tv shows like the walking dead or blindspot and so on where they put cliffhangers at the end to make you curious about the next episode so you get hooked and keep watching. Well nothing gets me so hooked and excited like this video series. Keep the good stuff coming!
Great video, once again. I agree on what you said about the trochoidal toolpath - Its relatively slow but very reliable and does usualy need no babysitting. I use it preferable when I am machining and programming at the same time on one part - While its doing roughing with trochoidal toolpaths, I can concentrate on programming the finishing toolpaths.
Hi Stefan, They use trochoidal toolpath at my full time job all the time now thinking it is much faster when in reality the metal removal rate is no where as close as it use to be. We never had a back log at the CNC mills for decade and now it is the biggest back log in the shop. Steve
I have been thinking about your comment. I think it is interesting that I do the same thing. When working by myself I have to do everything (meaning locating ordering tools, programming exc.). I like to get the job running in some way. Than while the machine is running I can continue to program or look thru catalogs and make phone calls to order tools. Its interesting to see I'm not the only one. But to do this I need a very reliable tool path at the machine. I think people see this adaptive/trochoidal type cutting in videos and it does look impressive. If the machine isn't capable of the high acceleration rates necessary it wont be faster. You may never reach the programmed feed rates.
The main reasons I see people losing a lot of time on trochoidal toolpaths is because they aren't programming the back feedrate (when the tool lifts and moves) to the maximum feedrate of the machine (a bog standard Haas VF2SS can feed at 833ipm and accelerate to that pretty quickly), and/or they are using machines with slow accelerations. Like Peter said, acceleration is a major component, so if you lose a lot of time in the linking moves then high feed milling could be better.
@@EdgePrecision We do not use this method in production machining at all. Looks like it's very hard on the ballscrews. Interested in how often you check your backlash? Mazak VRX use heavy duty roller guides, I'm assuming this machine shares that. They fail after about 12 years of production with heavy machining. Mazak are excellent machines.
Hey Peter! I saw on Instagram that you had a pin eject from a tool holder at what was probably high speed! Nasty looking impact on the door glass! Really happy to see that the glass did its job!
I thought we were specialists until I saw their videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with others. I can not understand why some people can rate one of their videos negatively. Many thanks and continue to have many good ideas for working complex workpieces. MfG Markus
Some of the negative gooses would be just trolls or the jealous machinist types - This guy puts his heart and soul into these videos and he doesn't need to - he is just sharing his skills - The work he puts out is amazing on the cutting edge technical scale - I'm not saying this directly to peter coz I've told him so many times it's embarrassing - in one of his videos just to show off I think - he goes to a 2nd workshop with his blacksmithing gear and turns out a "blaclsmithed" (if there is such a word) lathe dog because he broke the cheap chinese one he bought - so this guy is super talented at the CNC end and the blacksmithing end - then to add insult to injury for us mere mortals - he is entirely self taught. What a talent.
Simply amazing. And all of this just to hold the real parts. I wonder if the design engineers have any idea what’s involved in making their ideas reality?
Great video Peter. I found out that plunge milling is fastest way to remove (rough) big amount of material in short time. But in HSMworks or Fusion 360 it's little bit tricky to set up, you must improvise. In MasterCam you have strategy specifically for plunge milling.
Hi Peter, I love those high feed mills. I had a 2" Sumotomo running at 400 IPM at .06 depth of cut in 01 with good insert life. The guy who took over the area tried ramping the RPM way up and slowing down the feed and only achieved 250 IPM and burned up inserts real fast. His conclusion was the cutter was no good when in reality he did not know how to use it. I asked him where he came up with his feeds and speeds and he said he just guessed at them. Steve
Thanks Steve. Yes this happens because of their lack of understanding of what going on. I'm surprised he didn't also increase the depth of cut beyond the inserts big tip radius. Thus negating the whole principal of the feed mill completely.
For the dynamic, or adaptive toolpaths, as your axial step over approaches zero, your feed rate will increase to infinity because of the radial chip thinning that takes place. I think that your feed rate could easily be doubled. At a certain point, it doesn't matter how fast your feed the tool is your step over is smash enough. It also makes more sense to step up your depth cuts with an adaptive cycle because the huge advantage is the constant step over so you can use the entire flute length. If you step down, you end up cutting the same area with each depth pass.
In materials that you can’t run high surface footage there is a diminishing return. In these materials it is faster to use a feed milling strategy. I have some small diameter solid carbide feed mills on test. This is for the actual material. We shall see. I have it programmed now with adaptive type of milling. I am doing full depth cuts. There is a limit to the feed that any machine can actually do in the small movements. Your cam software says one thing but the reality is the machine doesn’t have the acceleration rates (at lest not my 13 year old one) to actually get up to the programmed feeds in the small movements in slots. So the computer says on thing and reality is another. Also the file size gets so large that I have to break up the program into mutable files. This is inconvenient. Having to reload the programs over and over. Before you say run DNC. With that you can’t rerun tools . That is even more problematic.
You should try Tungaloy's dofeed indexable cutter for HFM.... their cutters damps a lot of vibration that Mitsubishi cutter can never damp.... inserts are pretty cheap as well, $13 i think... They have 8015 series inserts which are like GOD of hardened steel....i never trust the cutters with two inserts, if one breaks the next one follows and by the time you realize or reach the machine, it damages the pocket. i remember one time i did .75" Radial, .030" axial at 400 IPM on 4140 on freaking cat40 Fadal(Fanuc) machine and never hit 80% Spindle load. Your machine is beauty though..... did you name her..
Hey Peter, do you take chip thinning into account when programming the adaptive roughing cycles? You can increase the feedrates by a large margin and still get high material removal rates even with the small radial load.
The same is true of feed milling. Yes also in adaptive type of milling. With lower hp and smaller taper machines(40 and below) the adaptive cycles are probably the way to go. With more rigidity and power feed milling is better. At least that’s been my experience. Except in easer to machine materials. Such as aluminum.
adaptive clearing feed rates are generally much faster than you showed. for example IMCO speeds and feeds for their Ipt 7 flute endmills 1/2" endmill, 1.500 loc, 03cr in 304 stainless is 450sfm, 3438rpm, .0064ipt, 154ipm, 8%, .04" width of cut and 1.500" depth of cut. i have run this setup in a weldon holder on a 40taper haas for few years and its much faster than you presented, its my go to roughing tool. Also with amazing tool life. IMCO speeds and feeds are designed for HEM toolpaths. I highly suggest trying one of their 7 flute tools and speeds and feeds.
I should have been more careful the way I explained this. I wasn’t trying to say it was better in all conditions. What I was showing was two different machining methods of roughing. For machines with less horse power and rigidity this adaptive type of roughing does work good. In certain materials there may be a advantage to using high feed milling. I wasn’t trying to show it’s full potential in this video. Far from it. You are correct in what you are saying for your Haas mill. It has been my experience that when a machine is capable and there is a lot of volume of material to remove feed milling is faster. But high feed milling does and will put more stress and heat into the material.
Hi Peter, Fusion360 recently added "both way" machining strategy for their adaptive. The advice is to climb mill at your chosen DOC, and on the return conventional cut, reduce the DOC to 50 to 75% of the climb direction DOC. Doesn't work for all situations, but I have used it successfully for some work. Saves cutting a lot of air. I wonder if Esprit has a similar capability? Thank you for your wonderful detailed explanations.
@@spazzywhitebelt I've done it on Aluminium OK. I had issues with steel, but my machine is like trying to mill with a piece of spaghetti. It is only small.
@@chrisjh777 For roughing cuts, i thought it would make little difference, but I'm guessing the chip profile would be not good, and possibly get chip re-cutting. Just guessing.
I should have been more clear with my explanation. I have been holding the bored to nominal + .001. There tolerance is plus and minus .002. So if I machine the pins to minus .001 below nominal they should have a .001-.002 clearance on the bores in the parts. I hope that makes better sense.
You build it into the quote. You can't quote them one price, then realize you haven charged them enough for fixturing, then charge them a price different that the quote price at the end.
It all part of doing the job. I have hade customers that wanted the fixturing in the past. They had to pay extra for it. I keep and own all my fixtures. It’s built into the price. The next time I run the job it even goes better and makes better money.
@@EdgePrecision you did a video a while back about running a shop and I believe you talked about pricing in there but if you have time to discuss how you price a job like this I'd like to hear about it. I feel like you could really shot yourself in the foot on a job of that scope given just how many variables you have to consider. Do you always quote before starting a job or do you have enough relationship with the clients where they're okay doing time and materials?
@@jimazmachining6313 yeah certainly don't get paid for quoting...we recently put in a bid that had ~175 parts, spent a few days doing that. You do work for any of the distributed manufacturers? We're setup with one and I really like the whole here's what we'll pay deal. Thing that's annoying is you can't talk with the customer and advise for machinability.
Hey Peter just curious on your speeds and feeds during the dynamic cycle? On tool steels and alloy steels I'm routinely running 800 sfm and .012 chip load. It's proven faster for me then feed milling up to about 8xd.
Yes on materials that you can run a higher surface speed this style of machining can work. I could have done that on this fixture. My intention with this video was to show different methods. For the types of material I normally machine the feed mill generally works better. If your machine is capable of achieving the actual feed rates. Many older machines cant really reach the feeds in some of the small movements. Also then programs memory size gets to large for older controls this can be a problem.
@@Herbster472 I got a chance to attend Sandvik's MCT class a while back and they ran both adaptive style paths and the high feed paths. We ran the numbers and I was surprised to see that the HFM path had the higher MRR. Beyond running into data starvation issues, HFM might have the advantage because the inserts are designed to direct some of the cutting forces axially into the spindle so you can push those feedrates a bit harder.
Hi Peter. Are these Mitsubishi high feed mills good for stainless? I've tested some and Walter are the best for me until now. Just curious, depending on what you say I will test them.
Yes I use them on stainless and titanium as well. I also use Tunaloy and Iscar feed mills in these materials too. I think I like the tungaloy ones the best.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks for answering. I've tried Kyocera, Korloy, Taegutec and YG1. None of them could beat Walter in tool life and MRR. I got 2hrs of contact in 304 SS running with air. Would you mind telling me the geometries of the ones you use? Let me tell you man, your channel is the one I admire the most. Because it's real life machining, not boom this or boom that. I think I watched all your videos at least 3 times each, and I'm in business for almost 20 years. You are the reason I keep saying our company must get an Integrex. Thanks a lot.
What Specific change are you referring to? Using the steady rest. I made the spindle side a little longer (Good thing I did). So I felt the need for the steady. I made the cover over the rollers to keep shavings out from under them.
With Sandvik Silent bars If you take a finish cut and are very close to the size. Than if you just rerun the bar it will cut oversize. The bars are excellent at damping vibration (The Best) but they also flex away from the cut. So lets say you took a finish cut removing around .010" of stock. And you end up within .001" of your finish size. So you want to go in for that .001" of material. The bar has less pressure on it and it will cut larger than expected. Now with experience with the particular bar and head you are using you can learn to predict how much this will be and actually go smaller with your offset to compensate for this reduced pressure on the bar. Hope that make sense. Its a little hard to describe.
@@EdgePrecision Darn thanks for the quick respond , when i was learning cnc i mistake taking a finish pass and not setting the offset down thanks for the respond keep up the good videos.
Okay everybody, I am proposing a challenge....... ((The fastest time wins)), but, you have to make this part on 100% manual machines! Lol.. And no I am not supplying the materials, tooling, and machines...lol... I'm not saying it.can't be done, rather, how time consuming this part would be make with in tolerance and in a timely manner to be profitable... I don't think it would be profitable on manual machines, not that anybody would do this on manual machines... Sorry folks, just thinking out loud... Neat video as always.. Dru
The pocket that had the diamond shaped pins went all around the face. On this machine because there is Only 10MM X minus travel that was necessary. On the other pockets. I was able to position them above the X zero. So I could run them in the X-Y Style. I will always try to do the X-Y style of machining if possible. It will be faster because the rapid moves of the C axis are slower.
This is a little hard to say. I was doing a lot of other things at the same time. Not to mention video recording the process. The video recording pretty much doubles the time by it self. It took pretty much the whole day between programming video recording and editing. Plus people interrupting me with other things and ordering tooling for the operation.
Well I think I speak for us all when I say thank you for taking that extra time to film (and edit/upload) so we can all enjoy, learn, and just marvel at your talents.
I did run coolant you just didn't see it. I took clips without coolant. The feed mill was running air blast thru the spindle. This is the preferred coolant for a feed mill.
Edge Precision thanks for taking the time to answer, upon rewatching you can see the mist, it’s just a bit lost by time lapse! Very interesting thank you!
Your endmill look very slow in dynamic roughing.. take a look at hsm advisor for better feeds and speeds in dynamic you'll probably end up feeding 4x to 6x faster... really like what u doing btw!!
Hey, I have a question about some struggles I am having with threading wondering if you can help me out. Do you have a facebook I can maybe message you at ?
I remember at my last job seeing someone cutting a 3/4-inch deep pocket in 17-4 stainless in one pass using a 2-flute inserted mill with coolant and ended up rotating inserts every two parts because the cutting forces were so high. They did it because the higher-ups who don't do machining tightened up the department's budget too much and they didn't want to spend the money for 6-flute end mills. I just hate it when the HIPPOs get in the way.
Your roughing tools are too thin and too stuck out. As i compared feedmilling is not faster than adaptive milling. Adaptive milling puts lower stress into the steel.
I run a CNC machine daily, and this is where I come to relax.
same haha
I'm guessing that I could be speaking for a lot of people that have been watching the "prep" for the final processes on the actual parts: We can't wait to see it !!
On the edge of my seat and checking more times a day!
I'm new to TH-cam, I'm a retired tool and die machinist, made dies for military, oil field, aerospace etc,didn't have the machines like yours, you are a master at your trade,the knowledge that you share with all who watch your channel, are very lucky, I have worked with inconell, waspalloy duradie all extremely tough to work with but your machine make it look easy, I like your TH-cam channel, very informative
Thank You
Peter as a old job shop manual machinist I tip my hat to you son .I hung my shop coat 3 years ago and still dont understand CNC I can spell it but that is it
It’s beautiful!
Your process planning is attentive and processing techniques are great. I live in Taiwan and like your movie very much.👍👍
I can't understand why your channel hasn't blown up yet.... Your content is absolutely first class! Keep up the good work and hopefully the rest of the world will catch on to your channel...
Cool stuff, yeah long term it's probably not great for cutter life because you're conventional cutting.
And your English sounded fine.
I think the possibility is that they dont fully understand the complexity of the job and what it takes to produce these parts.
I wonder the same thing. Recently though I've been experiencing problems with Edge Precision videos playing. I have an older computer (very powerful though) that is running Windows XP. (I down graded for a reason) because of this, I cannot view Peter's great videos until they have been published for about 3 weeks - for some strange reason. Anyway, if others are experiencing the same problems, it would cause them to not subscribe.
Always enjoy learning something new in your videos Pete Thanks for taking the time.
Great work peter! I can't wait to see how it all comes together.
Never gets old! Well done.
Thanks for the video.
Peter, you are the best! I watch all your video's, they are always a joy to watch! I even recommend it to my friends here in Europe.
I'm a engineer/cnc mill/cnc lathe guy myself and really like the way you tackle certain difficulties like fixturing the part correctly. It reminds me of difficult jobs I manufactured throughout the years.
Keep up the good work Peter.
Your camera work is really nice.
And your content is GOLD!
Well done sir,what an idea, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
As always fantastic work
Just awesome! Can't wait for part 2.
Every time you blow me away. Tmbs up ! Thanks for showing :)
You know these tv shows like the walking dead or blindspot and so on where they put cliffhangers at the end to make you curious about the next episode so you get hooked and keep watching.
Well nothing gets me so hooked and excited like this video series. Keep the good stuff coming!
Nicely executed video and part as usual. :)
Great work.
Great video, once again.
I agree on what you said about the trochoidal toolpath - Its relatively slow but very reliable and does usualy need no babysitting. I use it preferable when I am machining and programming at the same time on one part - While its doing roughing with trochoidal toolpaths, I can concentrate on programming the finishing toolpaths.
Hi Stefan,
They use trochoidal toolpath at my full time job all the time now thinking it is much faster when in reality the metal removal rate is no where as close as it use to be. We never had a back log at the CNC mills for decade and now it is the biggest back log in the shop.
Steve
I have been thinking about your comment. I think it is interesting that I do the same thing. When working by myself I have to do everything (meaning locating ordering tools, programming exc.). I like to get the job running in some way. Than while the machine is running I can continue to program or look thru catalogs and make phone calls to order tools. Its interesting to see I'm not the only one. But to do this I need a very reliable tool path at the machine. I think people see this adaptive/trochoidal type cutting in videos and it does look impressive. If the machine isn't capable of the high acceleration rates necessary it wont be faster. You may never reach the programmed feed rates.
The main reasons I see people losing a lot of time on trochoidal toolpaths is because they aren't programming the back feedrate (when the tool lifts and moves) to the maximum feedrate of the machine (a bog standard Haas VF2SS can feed at 833ipm and accelerate to that pretty quickly), and/or they are using machines with slow accelerations. Like Peter said, acceleration is a major component, so if you lose a lot of time in the linking moves then high feed milling could be better.
@@EdgePrecision We do not use this method in production machining at all. Looks like it's very hard on the ballscrews. Interested in how often you check your backlash?
Mazak VRX use heavy duty roller guides, I'm assuming this machine shares that. They fail after about 12 years of production with heavy machining. Mazak are excellent machines.
Beautiful work.
Nice work! Thanks for sharing.
Great job, as always!
Hey Peter! I saw on Instagram that you had a pin eject from a tool holder at what was probably high speed! Nasty looking impact on the door glass! Really happy to see that the glass did its job!
Nice video again Peter! 👍👍👍 thanks!
I thought we were specialists until I saw their videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with others. I can not understand why some people can rate one of their videos negatively.
Many thanks and continue to have many good ideas for working complex workpieces. MfG Markus
Some of the negative gooses would be just trolls or the jealous machinist types - This guy puts his heart and soul into these videos and he doesn't need to - he is just sharing his skills - The work he puts out is amazing on the cutting edge technical scale - I'm not saying this directly to peter coz I've told him so many times it's embarrassing - in one of his videos just to show off I think - he goes to a 2nd workshop with his blacksmithing gear and turns out a "blaclsmithed" (if there is such a word) lathe dog because he broke the cheap chinese one he bought - so this guy is super talented at the CNC end and the blacksmithing end - then to add insult to injury for us mere mortals - he is entirely self taught. What a talent.
I like your tooling designing, that is something I can apply to my work, i'm around 3 and 4 axis,
Beautiful part
awesome as usual
That Mitsubishi 7/8" dia. cutter is amazing how it cuts through that super duplex matrl.
i like the steady rest shield.
Amazing stuff!!!!
Beautiful
That is a serious mandrel, well done as usual 👌
Looking good sir
Thank you!
Nice job!
I found that with highfeed mills going smaller depths of cuts and higher feed like 160-200 or more ipm can highly increase tool life of inserts
Simply amazing. And all of this just to hold the real parts. I wonder if the design engineers have any idea what’s involved in making their ideas reality?
Mazak integrex is an amazing machine.
Big enough to sling up a hammock an take a nap in also 😀
Awesome!!!
very work
Clever
Просто супер !
Great video Peter.
I found out that plunge milling is fastest way to remove (rough) big amount of material in short time.
But in HSMworks or Fusion 360 it's little bit tricky to set up, you must improvise. In MasterCam you have strategy specifically for plunge milling.
...takováto práce by mě fakt také moc bavila, to jsou prostě neuvěřitelně špičkové výrobky, jako bývalý strojař to umím ocenit 👉 👍👍✊🙋
Hi Peter,
I love those high feed mills. I had a 2" Sumotomo running at 400 IPM at .06 depth of cut in 01 with good insert life. The guy who took over the area tried ramping the RPM way up and slowing down the feed and only achieved 250 IPM and burned up inserts real fast. His conclusion was the cutter was no good when in reality he did not know how to use it. I asked him where he came up with his feeds and speeds and he said he just guessed at them.
Steve
Thanks Steve. Yes this happens because of their lack of understanding of what going on. I'm surprised he didn't also increase the depth of cut beyond the inserts big tip radius. Thus negating the whole principal of the feed mill completely.
Nice
You should up your feedrate when using adaptive but a good feedmill is hard to beat.
Daniel Machado - Brazil
Super man and a super Mazak.
For the dynamic, or adaptive toolpaths, as your axial step over approaches zero, your feed rate will increase to infinity because of the radial chip thinning that takes place. I think that your feed rate could easily be doubled. At a certain point, it doesn't matter how fast your feed the tool is your step over is smash enough.
It also makes more sense to step up your depth cuts with an adaptive cycle because the huge advantage is the constant step over so you can use the entire flute length. If you step down, you end up cutting the same area with each depth pass.
In materials that you can’t run high surface footage there is a diminishing return. In these materials it is faster to use a feed milling strategy. I have some small diameter solid carbide feed mills on test. This is for the actual material. We shall see. I have it programmed now with adaptive type of milling. I am doing full depth cuts. There is a limit to the feed that any machine can actually do in the small movements. Your cam software says one thing but the reality is the machine doesn’t have the acceleration rates (at lest not my 13 year old one) to actually get up to the programmed feeds in the small movements in slots. So the computer says on thing and reality is another. Also the file size gets so large that I have to break up the program into mutable files. This is inconvenient. Having to reload the programs over and over. Before you say run DNC. With that you can’t rerun tools . That is even more problematic.
You should try Tungaloy's dofeed indexable cutter for HFM.... their cutters damps a lot of vibration that Mitsubishi cutter can never damp.... inserts are pretty cheap as well, $13 i think... They have 8015 series inserts which are like GOD of hardened steel....i never trust the cutters with two inserts, if one breaks the next one follows and by the time you realize or reach the machine, it damages the pocket. i remember one time i did .75" Radial, .030" axial at 400 IPM on 4140 on freaking cat40 Fadal(Fanuc) machine and never hit 80% Spindle load. Your machine is beauty though..... did you name her..
On duplex, high feed milling inserts is a good choice?
You can actually run adaptive/trochoidal both ways if your CAM software supports it, I know HSM and Fusion 360 does.
Esprit does.
Hey Peter, do you take chip thinning into account when programming the adaptive roughing cycles? You can increase the feedrates by a large margin and still get high material removal rates even with the small radial load.
The same is true of feed milling. Yes also in adaptive type of milling. With lower hp and smaller taper machines(40 and below) the adaptive cycles are probably the way to go. With more rigidity and power feed milling is better. At least that’s been my experience. Except in easer to machine materials. Such as aluminum.
Hi, I love your videos! Just curious, what coolant are you using?
I use QualiChem Xtreme Cut 250C.
......technologically think-exactly!
adaptive clearing feed rates are generally much faster than you showed. for example IMCO speeds and feeds for their Ipt 7 flute endmills 1/2" endmill, 1.500 loc, 03cr in 304 stainless is 450sfm, 3438rpm, .0064ipt, 154ipm, 8%, .04" width of cut and 1.500" depth of cut. i have run this setup in a weldon holder on a 40taper haas for few years and its much faster than you presented, its my go to roughing tool. Also with amazing tool life. IMCO speeds and feeds are designed for HEM toolpaths. I highly suggest trying one of their 7 flute tools and speeds and feeds.
I should have been more careful the way I explained this. I wasn’t trying to say it was better in all conditions. What I was showing was two different machining methods of roughing. For machines with less horse power and rigidity this adaptive type of roughing does work good. In certain materials there may be a advantage to using high feed milling. I wasn’t trying to show it’s full potential in this video. Far from it. You are correct in what you are saying for your Haas mill. It has been my experience that when a machine is capable and there is a lot of volume of material to remove feed milling is faster. But high feed milling does and will put more stress and heat into the material.
Your CAM system should be able to tell you which method removes the most material the fastest (adaptive end-mill vs high feed cutter)?
Hi Peter, Fusion360 recently added "both way" machining strategy for their adaptive. The advice is to climb mill at your chosen DOC, and on the return conventional cut, reduce the DOC to 50 to 75% of the climb direction DOC. Doesn't work for all situations, but I have used it successfully for some work. Saves cutting a lot of air. I wonder if Esprit has a similar capability?
Thank you for your wonderful detailed explanations.
Have you done that in steel? I thought they only recommended it for soft materials like aluminum and plastic. It is a cool function
@@spazzywhitebelt I've done it on Aluminium OK. I had issues with steel, but my machine is like trying to mill with a piece of spaghetti. It is only small.
@@chrisjh777 For roughing cuts, i thought it would make little difference, but I'm guessing the chip profile would be not good, and possibly get chip re-cutting. Just guessing.
@@spazzywhitebelt I have done that in steel and worked fine but i dont know how well works in the long run. Sorry for my bad English I am from Europe.
@@debonh3828 Adaptive (trochoidal) machining is a roughing strategy only.
🇧🇷Daniel Machado - Brazil🌎
You lost me around 5:46. How do you get the pins to go in the holes if they are .001” bigger than the bores?
I should have been more clear with my explanation. I have been holding the bored to nominal + .001. There tolerance is plus and minus .002. So if I machine the pins to minus .001 below nominal they should have a .001-.002 clearance on the bores in the parts. I hope that makes better sense.
Edge Precision yes that makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
Hi Peter, why do you machine your locating lugs as diamonds instead of circle? I've seen you do it also in other videos.
Damien Pankhurst im guessing its for the four point contact. A full circle has too much surface area. And can make it difficult to slide on and off.
It makes the alignment less critical on diameter variations of the hole pattern. The purpose is more for rotational alignment.
Nice video, can i ask you what kind of software you using? or you programming it on machine? can you do a video about how you program that thing?
Bulik CZE he has a few videos that show him programming on his channel actually. He programs with esprit
do you usually charge the customer for the fixtures like add it to the quote or do you like add it to the final bill.
You build it into the quote. You can't quote them one price, then realize you haven charged them enough for fixturing, then charge them a price different that the quote price at the end.
It all part of doing the job. I have hade customers that wanted the fixturing in the past. They had to pay extra for it. I keep and own all my fixtures. It’s built into the price. The next time I run the job it even goes better and makes better money.
@@EdgePrecision you did a video a while back about running a shop and I believe you talked about pricing in there but if you have time to discuss how you price a job like this I'd like to hear about it. I feel like you could really shot yourself in the foot on a job of that scope given just how many variables you have to consider.
Do you always quote before starting a job or do you have enough relationship with the clients where they're okay doing time and materials?
@@jimazmachining6313 yeah certainly don't get paid for quoting...we recently put in a bid that had ~175 parts, spent a few days doing that.
You do work for any of the distributed manufacturers? We're setup with one and I really like the whole here's what we'll pay deal. Thing that's annoying is you can't talk with the customer and advise for machinability.
what kind of cutter at 10:10 seconds does the under cut. is that a screw in cutter to shank? it's the titanium nitrided cutter like a woodruff cutter.
Its a Iscar Multi Master tool. The carbide tip/insert screws into the shank.
Didn't have a shorter end mill for the first operation?
Realy? Get out of here
What feed speed doc were you using with that Endmill? I'm looking to machine some Cd4 stainless and need a place to start
I think if you start with parameters you would use for 316 ss it would be a good starting point.
@@EdgePrecision thank you!
MSC was saying somthing like 3.6 ipm .0005" per tooth.... I don't think that's right
Hey Peter just curious on your speeds and feeds during the dynamic cycle? On tool steels and alloy steels I'm routinely running 800 sfm and .012 chip load. It's proven faster for me then feed milling up to about 8xd.
Yes on materials that you can run a higher surface speed this style of machining can work. I could have done that on this fixture. My intention with this video was to show different methods. For the types of material I normally machine the feed mill generally works better. If your machine is capable of achieving the actual feed rates. Many older machines cant really reach the feeds in some of the small movements. Also then programs memory size gets to large for older controls this can be a problem.
@@EdgePrecision Gotcha! Thanks for responding and the excellent content.
@@Herbster472 I got a chance to attend Sandvik's MCT class a while back and they ran both adaptive style paths and the high feed paths. We ran the numbers and I was surprised to see that the HFM path had the higher MRR. Beyond running into data starvation issues, HFM might have the advantage because the inserts are designed to direct some of the cutting forces axially into the spindle so you can push those feedrates a bit harder.
Hi Peter.
Are these Mitsubishi high feed mills good for stainless?
I've tested some and Walter are the best for me until now.
Just curious, depending on what you say I will test them.
Yes I use them on stainless and titanium as well. I also use Tunaloy and Iscar feed mills in these materials too. I think I like the tungaloy ones the best.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks for answering. I've tried Kyocera, Korloy, Taegutec and YG1. None of them could beat Walter in tool life and MRR. I got 2hrs of contact in 304 SS running with air.
Would you mind telling me the geometries of the ones you use?
Let me tell you man, your channel is the one I admire the most. Because it's real life machining, not boom this or boom that.
I think I watched all your videos at least 3 times each, and I'm in business for almost 20 years. You are the reason I keep saying our company must get an Integrex.
Thanks a lot.
What CAM system do you use?
Esprit Cam.
Hi Peter, I noticed there is a change in ur fixture designed and manufactured. Did u change that for some reason?
What Specific change are you referring to? Using the steady rest. I made the spindle side a little longer (Good thing I did). So I felt the need for the steady. I made the cover over the rollers to keep shavings out from under them.
When you rerun the finish at 7:16 do you set the offset down ?, because you taking so little of a cut
With Sandvik Silent bars If you take a finish cut and are very close to the size. Than if you just rerun the bar it will cut oversize. The bars are excellent at damping vibration (The Best) but they also flex away from the cut. So lets say you took a finish cut removing around .010" of stock. And you end up within .001" of your finish size. So you want to go in for that .001" of material. The bar has less pressure on it and it will cut larger than expected. Now with experience with the particular bar and head you are using you can learn to predict how much this will be and actually go smaller with your offset to compensate for this reduced pressure on the bar. Hope that make sense. Its a little hard to describe.
@@EdgePrecision Darn thanks for the quick respond , when i was learning cnc i mistake taking a finish pass and not setting the offset down thanks for the respond keep up the good videos.
Okay everybody, I am proposing a challenge....... ((The fastest time wins)), but, you have to make this part on 100% manual machines! Lol.. And no I am not supplying the materials, tooling, and machines...lol... I'm not saying it.can't be done, rather, how time consuming this part would be make with in tolerance and in a timely manner to be profitable... I don't think it would be profitable on manual machines, not that anybody would do this on manual machines... Sorry folks, just thinking out loud... Neat video as always.. Dru
Why did you use C-X machining when roughing with the endmill but then used X-Y machining with the Mitsubishi mill?
The pocket that had the diamond shaped pins went all around the face. On this machine because there is Only 10MM X minus travel that was necessary. On the other pockets. I was able to position them above the X zero. So I could run them in the X-Y Style. I will always try to do the X-Y style of machining if possible. It will be faster because the rapid moves of the C axis are slower.
@@EdgePrecision Thank you.
Just out of curiosity about how long was the cycle time on this?
This is a little hard to say. I was doing a lot of other things at the same time. Not to mention video recording the process. The video recording pretty much doubles the time by it self. It took pretty much the whole day between programming video recording and editing. Plus people interrupting me with other things and ordering tooling for the operation.
Well I think I speak for us all when I say thank you for taking that extra time to film (and edit/upload) so we can all enjoy, learn, and just marvel at your talents.
Nice. M
Why no coolant Peter? I know a lot of people turn it off for filming, but you filmed almost the whole part being machined. Was it not getting hot?
I did run coolant you just didn't see it. I took clips without coolant. The feed mill was running air blast thru the spindle. This is the preferred coolant for a feed mill.
Edge Precision thanks for taking the time to answer, upon rewatching you can see the mist, it’s just a bit lost by time lapse! Very interesting thank you!
Cmon own up, who's that one guy who clicked dislike..
He's just jealous he doesn't have Peter's CNC skills haha :D
Now there are 2 lol! Maybe his little bro and his neighbor haha
have u tried a 45 degree tool on duplex i can send u some videos if u like
Your endmill look very slow in dynamic roughing.. take a look at hsm advisor for better feeds and speeds in dynamic you'll probably end up feeding 4x to 6x faster... really like what u doing btw!!
Hey, I have a question about some struggles I am having with threading wondering if you can help me out. Do you have a facebook I can maybe message you at ?
You can send me a message on Facebook messenger. It’s name is Peter Stanton.
I remember at my last job seeing someone cutting a 3/4-inch deep pocket in 17-4 stainless in one pass using a 2-flute inserted mill with coolant and ended up rotating inserts every two parts because the cutting forces were so high. They did it because the higher-ups who don't do machining tightened up the department's budget too much and they didn't want to spend the money for 6-flute end mills. I just hate it when the HIPPOs get in the way.
Your roughing tools are too thin and too stuck out. As i compared feedmilling is not faster than adaptive milling. Adaptive milling puts lower stress into the steel.
Great work peter! I can't wait to see how it all comes together.