You focused so much on whether or not he actually invented the swivel chair that you missed the bar that he invented it because he's down with 'revolutions'
"Endowed" is a word commonly seen in only three places: The Declaration, the world of high finance, and describing the size of one's pecker. Tommy was bragging about all three at once.
Frederick Douglass killed it in this battle. The actor portraying him does so with such conviction. It also helps that the real Frederick Douglass was an admirable man.
This battle basically happened because JB Smoove approached the ERB crew and said "I really want to play Frederick Douglass in an ERB. Can you make that happen for me please?" and they obliged.
Douglass definitely took this.. Occasionally, the ERB team will write a battle with an intended winner to teach a specific lesson or give a specific message. This is one of those battles.
Yea it’s no surprise Douglass won. Actually Jefferson had no chance. I think they should’ve teamed FD with someone who had a similar life maybe like Harrriet Tubman. Or maybe even someone not even related to slavery like that battle between mother teresa vs sigmund freud. It was good and hilarious.
@@chi7818 i hated the trump v clinton because of all the unbelievably obvious clinton bias throughout and painting trump badly. The point of the battles is so they're given an equal chance
@@beastlyman114 thats exactly what i mean about it not being even or fair, it was filled with bias. since these raps are both produced by the same group of people and they purposefully made Trump look bad, that's not fair is all im saying. if you write both sides, and make one shit on purpose it defeats the purpose and changes it from a fictional rap battle to a political message.
It's always so much fun to see someone with a deep understanding of the people involved in one of these battles react to them, especially if you're not a well of wisdom in that particular area yourself. As a European, I have a decent understanding of the American War of Independence/Civil War and what transpired, but I know significantly less about the specific people involved. Therefore, it was nice to have someone break things down way better than I could. I liked the battle but it's unfortunately very one-sided. It felt more like an examination of Jefferson than a battle between him and Douglass. I feel like I learned a lot about Jefferson - good and bad - but very, very little about Douglass. I appreciate that Douglass himself went after Jefferson's throat but Jefferson never said anything of note about Douglass. He criticized him for writing three autobiographies but then went on to spend his whole battle talking about himself, which kind of defeats the point. I think Douglass himself was outstanding, though. Even if Jefferson had come at him with everything he could have, I suspect Douglass would have won. He did an amazing job laying out all of Jefferson's flaws.
The other thing ERB does with historical figures is to try to mimic the way that individual spoke during speeches or ither media they were recorded doing. If they don't have voice recordings to work with they use their writing style which is evident here, also Shakespearevs Dr Seuss. Jefferson has a better flow deliberately. He understood music, and had a way with words unlike many others of his time. Douglas had to learn to read and write in a time and place where it was illegal for him to do so. He went on to write 3 books but the prose is not very fluid. Combined with his anger and frustration with what happened after the 13th amendment was ratified, the way he raps here makes sense.
Good catch on the Three-Fifths Compromise, which is often misunderstood. It was strictly for the purposes of counting states' population -- which determines how many representatives and electoral votes a state gets, as well as how much they would pay in taxation (more population = higher tax). Free blacks were counted fully.
@@jehuxtable That insured that Slave States would have MORE representation than the number of citizens that existed in their States. Many people totally misinterpret the Compromise. And it wasn't about taxes, the Federal Taxes were on imports and alcohol.
The 3/5ths compromise was a plan to help the free states get more reps in congress so slavery could be phased out over time. Also, the 3/5ths compromise didn't specify race, it specified slave vs free. So all black free men were counted as a full person, and there were many in the south. There is no way the US would have won independence if they didn't get the south to go along with them so even at the constitutional convention they had to give some concessions to the southern states, originally only free men were counted, but the south balked at that so they had to come to a compromise that would get the south to go along with the Constitution after the failure of the articles of confederation.
@@Foolish188 Please, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong; this is very much the sort of thing I don't want to be telling people if it's false, BUT the Compromise was itself to prevent the Slave States from having more power since the slave owners could force their slaves to vote their way. So while obviously the slaves should indeed be counted as full people, they're in a situation to have that power used against them. Truly a tragic irony to need to be counted as less of a person to help benefit your future, but history is severely fucked up.
Jefferson created the “mouldboard of least resistance" based off flaws in the European plow design. Which sounds like something Jefferson to call something 🙄 And he did invent the swivel chair. I’m not sure of any messiness around it. Supposedly it was the chair he drafted the Declaration in. Supposedly. Lots of “supposedly”s around Jefferson lol
the "moldboard' Modern American spelling, Jefferson using English spelling still in use there today, is a lot older then Jefferson It was first used in China more then 2000 yr ago. In this case the word moult comes from the Old high German word "molta" meaning loose soils this is what a moldboard does as will as allowing the plough to turn soil over and bury derby and weed seeds Any farmer knows this Dont use them much anymore as we now know that no til is a better way to farm
Douglass had Jefferson shook after that first verse. He took his eye off winning the battle and tried to appeal to the enemy. I just don't think he was ready for this but it happens
It wasn't so much that a black man was considered 3/5 of a white man. They were trying to determine how many congressmen and how much of a say each state would have and the slave states wanted to go by population so they would have more power and more say in the direction of the country. It's actually the people who want to end slavery that's made the 3/5 rule
Jefferson wrote, in the DoI, that all men were endowed, by their Creator, with inalienable rights, including Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. He went to war against the Barbary Pirates. When they did the census, slaves counted for 3/5s of a man. The slave states wanted to count them as 1 man, to boost the number of Representatives they sent to Washington, non slave states didn't want to count them, as slaves had no representation. Slaves would have been better off not being counted, as it only sent more pro slavery people to Washington
I'll definitely give the flow and cadence to Jefferson as well. But I give the "W" to Freddy D. He was punching like he was Tyson back in the day and Jefferson just insulted his lisp.
I’m so glad you finally cleaned up the vid display for ERB. Did my last reply to someone about it make you realize that it was just the Maker Studio-owned battles that were giving you issues? I didn’t know if that was specifically the case, but it was the running theory I had about why any ERB would get claimed.
NGL, I just discovered you today and have been watching ERB since inception. When I watched a video and saw you did ERB videos, I came straight to this one.
The dispute about Thomas Jefferson and the swivel chair tends to be whether he was using it while writing the Declaration of Independence or not. It isn't actually disputed that he invited the chair.
This whole thing is ridiculous because the actual Douglass was not a moron and so had a much better grasp of history and more respect for Jefferson than ERB does.
You're in a rap battle, you use the ammunition you have. Truth was for all of Jefferson's ideals, he never reconciled his loftiest goals with the actions of his life, and that applies to more than just slavery BTW. It's true he hated slavery, it's also true that he didn't do much about the issue either because of personal failings or the politics of the time wouldn't allow him to act decisively.
4:20 We KNOW he invented a book swivel so he could reference between multiple (mostly law) books...It's basically the same principle, but you may be right that he didn't have documentation for the chair...and they serve the same purpose, to allow you or the books to turn to see multiple laid across a desk...
Also about the photo bit. People often didnt smile or had stone face because getting your photo take took a long time. Camera shots were not instant and you had to stay very still for long periods of time so it can capture a clean image of you.
It was actually a carry-over from having a portrait painted. Neutral faces were the style of the time because it made sitting down for a painting easier. Large format photography would have shutter speeds ranging from 1/30s to about 30s depending on the light. Anyone can smile and hold still for a few seconds. By the 1920's cameras got smaller and shutter speeds got faster, so photographers started taking pictures of people more naturally (think Cunningham's depression work).
i have 2 major problems with this battle. the first is that: word play aside, fredericks lines *heavily* relied on constantly pointing out Jeffersons hypocrisy. which is a valid criticism...but it got tired fast (imo) the second is that jeffersons second verse was essentially a surrender. made me a little sad :( edit: oh, and the specifics about the 3/5ths compromise. each slave counted as 3/5 of a person for the purposes of a states population when it came to determining the number of representatives that state got.
One poor fact for Thomas Jefferson he intended to free his slaves on his death but Virginia outlawed that shortly before he died. George Washington was able to do it only because he died soon enough
But something most people do not know because I guess you just go with the loudest voice these days, he made all of his slaves part of his family, meaning they could not just be enslaved by another. Many did choice to be a slave for hire tho seeing how that was better than trying to find a job and be paid very little.
He still had slaves bruh…. And he still treated them like slaves. Being a slightly kinder slaveowner still makes you a fucking slaveowner. Which is still entirely fucked up when his own peers like Hamilton were abolitionists.
Regarding the photos: Fun fact! Because photographs at the time required long exposure and very few people could smile for that long, a lot of the photographs have the subjects wearing very serious expressions. So, who knows? There may be several "botched" photographs of Frederick Douglass where he couldn't keep his composure during the shoot and had to burst out laughing.
The Pirates bar was in reference to the First Barbary war. Jefferson attempted to buy treaties with the Barbary Pirates when he was Secretary of State. When the Barbars raised the price of tribute to keep US ships safe after Jefferson was elected President he refused and then sent the US Navy to attack the Barbary Coast, hence the First Barbary War.
9:55 One thing worth noting about the pictures at the time, they were faster than portraits, but nothing like modern cameras. It's definitely difficult to portray emotion in stone, but it's absolutely possible if you're trying and know what you're doing. Getting your picture taken in Douglass' day required sitting as still as possible for at least a few hours, so a relatively blank face was the easiest to hold for that long, trying to convey emotion there was dependent on the dedication and effort put forth by the subject, while with sculpture or portraiture, it was at least as much in the hands of the artist.
@@JamesWillmus Alright, thank you for the correction, though sitting still for a minute can still be plenty of strain if you're actually trying to keep a pailníonn expression on your face.
This was really a no-win scenario for Jefferson. Either he, as you said, wastes a verse apologizing for slavery, or he acts like it was alright and turns the audience against him that way.
Jefferson did make some steps towards equality that he should be credited for, however the hypocrisy in maintaining his own ownership of slaves and his fear of losing mass appeal keeping him from taking a stronger stance should also be noted. I do like how they mentioned the asterisk in this battle for this one. Its pretty fitting to the reality of the situation.
Ever seen the early draft of the Declaration of Independence where Jefferson takes a remarkably strong stand against slavery? It ended up being considered too controversial and scrapped -- the idea was, "Look, Tom, we're trying to gain freedom from England, let's not bring slavery into this now." The economy of the South was dependent upon slavery, and Jefferson couldn't deny that.
@@kck9742 yeah but tbh it seemed like he kinda gave up near the end. A defeatist attitude about it. There is a chance he could have put a lot more sway in public opinion in the later years of his life. I think he just got so used to "that's how it is" that he no longer felt that it could be fought against in significant ways.
In the 1800s it was considered foolish and clownish to smile in photos. That is why you see practically no old black and white photos with people smiling.
Eh, it's more that it took a long time to actually TAKE a photo back then, and you had to stay still for up to thirty seconds. Try holding a smile for that long -- it's uncomfortable. Also people didn't have great teeth (and many adults were probably missing some). There are quite a few examples of 19th century people clowning, smiling, and laughing in photos.
The first draft of the Declaration of Independence was written with a section dedicated to the Immorality of slavery and the fact that the Crown had forced it on the colonies. However it was removed because it was felt that the southern states would not approve.
The part where the character of Jefferson says. "OK I participated in a broken system that I hated but I had to do what I did to keep my financial system situated" that is the solid truth right there!
when Thomas Jefferson goes over his own resume he actually held back a ton.... every time people recently would call Hillary Clinton the most qualified candidate for president in history I would have to bust out laughing and mention all the shit that Jefferson did before he became president. Not even a close comparison. On the other hand the claim that her opponent Donald Trump was the LEAST qualified candidate in presidential history probably was true.
I really appreciate your explanations. I'm really kinda blown away by the fact about Douglas was a Marshall. That's awesome! Even for the time that's incredible 😮
Can we just appreciate someone teaching themself to read!? That's some incredible determination when most self teaching moments involve some sort of written research you pretty much need to know how to read. So if you can't read text, you'd usually have someone read it to you, but teaching yourself to fuckin read has gotta be a whole level of difficult I'm glad I didn't have to deal with, mad respect to those that did
thing is the 13,14 and 15th amendments were all opposed by democrats and the first 30+ blacks to ever hold major office were all republicans.many were pastors including Hiram Revels. the civil rights bill of 1866 also granted civil rights to blacks.also passed by republicans
To be fair, that was back when Republicans were the progressive party and the Dixiecrats were southern conservatives. While both parties will claim parts of their history from that far back, the reality is that neither party is the same organization that it was 150+ years ago.
@@kck9742 It wasn't magic. It happened around when Theodore Roosevelt split the Republican party. And your statement about Democrats always being on the side of tyranny is just flatly false.
@@davidharshman7645 LOL, okay, great detail there, bucko. It never happened. And yeah, Democrats were and always have been. Who supported slavery? Democrats. Who supported Jim Crow? Democrats. Who created the welfare state that keeps people dependent on government? Democrats. I can't think of a single time Democrats have been on the right side of anything. Today they are just absolutely insane.
I always enjoy seeing people's reactions to any of the ERBs the first time, with that being said: Luke Skywalker Vs Harry Potter, Trump Vs Biden, and George Washington Vs William Wallace are well written. Pretty much all of them are.
Jefferson's personal library became the Library of Congress, after the original collection was burned by the British in 1812 Jefferson owned the largest collection of books in the country so he donated it to start the new library. The books he gave are still in Washington today.
the pirates line is about the first Barbary War.. America's first foreign war, under Jefferson, against the pirates of the North African "Barbary coast"
When I first saw the clip I thought it was Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges vs Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and if ERBOH hasn't done them that would be a good one
He was stoic but he definitely had a regality to himself. He was a great inspiration 👏. Frederick Douglas was a badass. Like the most historic figure i can recall being friends with a former president.
I LOVE your look after Jefferson said “we cool?” Hell no! 🤣🤣🤣 Also, the hypocrisy wasn’t just about Jefferson’s stance on slavery, but literally his fame of being a founding father for gaining “freedom” from England all the while enslaving unrecognized Americans. I really like how Douglass spit facts, the right amount of outrage, but ended it like the intelligent man that he was, noting that Jefferson, and the US, needs to have an asterisk whenever there’s a discussion of freedom; because freedom isn’t free when it’s paid for on the backs of the enslaved.
3/5 compromise for representation in Congress - North didn't want to count slaves as citizens, thereby granting the South more representatives (which would have simply given the Southerners who could vote more representation than their Northern counterparts), and the South wanted the slaves counted in full (but not granted any rights of citizenship whatsoever, giving them exactly what the Northerners were objecting to). The 3/5 Compromise was struck, whereby each slave was counted as 3/5 of a person for the purposes of the Census used to determine seats in the House of Representatives. Incidentally, most Constitutional Originalists seem to conveniently forget about things like the 3/5 Compromise when making their arguments, and they tend to get really flustered when it's brought up.
Bro here did a decent job remembering history of these two men. Not bad... But you are a little off on the 3/5th thing......... Abolitionists in the North wanted to end slavery. They comprehended that if the Slaves were counted as a person, then the Slave Owners would have a super majority in congress based on population. It was the Abolitionist's idea that if the Slaves weren't counted as people, the Slave Masters wouldn't have so many representatives in congress, and in hopes that the fewer representatives of Slave Masters would cause there to be a majority of those who would abolish slavery. But the Slave Masters wanted power and control. So there was a "compromise" that the black slave would be counted as 3/5th's of a person. And the Slave owners won so many seats that we had to have a civil war just to end slavery. Remember children...... it wasn't "racist Republicans" that didn't want Slaves to count as people because of racism. It was because they didn't want the census to give slave owners more representation in congress. This is a critical distinction. But also remember, children, the abolitionists weren't "Republicans". They were the "Whig" Party - which later became the Republican party. Thomas Jefferson started the Democrat party. Slave owners just had to be slave owners, no matter what they had to write in congress.
Anybody ever, ever, ever would lose if they apologized for something that heinous... and then said "We cool?" In a rap battle specifically, but also IRL.
You seem to know a far bit about many things but your understanding of TJ even FD seems lacking. Please read "The Jefferson Lies: Exposing the Myths You've Always Believed About Thomas Jefferson" using original documentation the negative modern narrative is shown for what it is. And i cant recall the books on FD (as it was highschool) but he was far more impressive then most people know and one of his best traits was self improving so when he was asked to speak on the 3/5 compromises he read up and realized how imbecilic his understanding was.
Im pretty sure (might be wrong), but the only reason Jefferson kept his slaves was because he was using them as collateral since he was in a large sum of debt. Also, while writing the draft, he had multiple paragraphs saying that they should abolish slavery but multiple founding fathers heavily disagreed
Here is a black dude who knows more about Thomas Jefferson than I do. I wonder if he is one of those descendants of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings? I was glad that ERB did such a nice job with Fredrick Douglass. I am a fan of both historic figures. Douglass was more heroic. No question. He won here too I think. (I am related to Jefferson through a family named Sother by the way. This reactor could be my distant cousin like Jefferson is).
I'm not 100% on this but from what I think I remember, Thomas Jefferson, although having one of his primary beliefs being that a military should be small, he raised the size of the naval force so that the Barbary Pirates would leave the American merchant ships alone. He felt that appeasing the Pirates with bribes would only last temporarily before more money would be demanded to protect American ships.
They did dirty on Jefferson. Just because his opponent had the higher moral ground, it doesn't mean he should spend an entire verse apologizing. I think ERB were trying to remain too PC so they had to give this one to Douglas and made Jefferson weak on purpose.
As much as Hillary wanted to be first, Victoria Woodhull nominated Frederick Douglass as her Vice President when she was running for the Presidential Office. (She knew she couldn't win, but wanted women to be heard. Mr. Douglass wasn't aware that he had even been nominated until after the election.)
Jefferson couldn't free the baby mama because she wasn't his slave. She belonged to his wife. By Virginia law, he could only free his own half of his slaves, and only upon his death, which he did. He also included bashing the king over introducing and requiring slaves in the colonies in his draft of the declaration of independence, it was removed on subsequent writings because th southern states were needed to maintain independence. And lastly Douglas wouldn't have used the three fifths compromise in the way it was used here. He wrote and spoke about it and understood it was an attempt to reduce the power of the southern slave states and not to reduce slaves to being 3/5ths of a white man. Douglas is my favorite intellectual from that period and he was portrayed quite poorly in this battle.
Just one thing, in the Constitution it is a slave is counted as 3/5ths of a man, didn't matter the race of the slave, there were white slaves, black slaves and native slaves at the time, there were also black, white and native slave owners.
Thomas Jefferson wanted to make all people free at the time the constitution was written. Unfortunately, southern states didn't. They made their money through agriculture and slavery. That is why Thomas Jefferson's last paragraph was omitted.
Back then nobody smiled in photographs. It was expensive and rare so people wanted to show their serious side. The 3/5'th's compromise was wanted by the south for more representation.
The south wanted all slaves counted toward congressional representation. The compromise was proposed to actually reduce the power of the southern slave states.
Yeah...the 3/5th Compromise was for census purposes, determining how many electors and congressmen a state would be allowed. Unfortunately, slaves (and free blacks) of the time did not get direct representation in any way.
@@davidharshman7645 In fact, their numbers were used to get more southern lawmakers who would ensure they never got represented and nothing to help them could be passed. Thats a nice extra kick in the gonads. Though I have to wonder how many slaves back then were even aware of all that considering they cant exactly do google searches on their lunch breaks.
It really is too bad that there are no writing from Sally Hemings. Did she have any feelings for and want to be with Jefferson or was she a captive slave being raped? I remember reading that she went to France with the Jefferson family and had the opportunity to stay and be free, but actually (god knows why) to return to Monticello. They had six children together, which from his perspective likely means she meant a great deal to him. I think he likely loved her, but was it consensual in any way. This relationship is unusual particularly within the framework of slavery. If any writings of hers were to be discovered, it would possibly completely redefine Jefferson.
"was she a captive slave" Well seeing how very few slaves were captives in the first place along with the fact she was born in America, by a "white" father. Theres many reports on Sally from both Jefferson and his family and hers. He freed her brother at her request, she was not his slave to free but his wife so the word is he give her a good bit of money and allowed her and the children "runaway"....his slaves liked him, they liked being his slaves because of how well he treated them, he even made them part of his family which gave them benefits when they were freed, heck a few he freed even came back and worked for him, as in a slave for hire.
You focused so much on whether or not he actually invented the swivel chair that you missed the bar that he invented it because he's down with 'revolutions'
A 17 min reaction... its normal that hes gonna miss a bar or two
"and I ceased to be an alien to your unalienable rights" is ERB gold and so under-rated too.
Particularly followed up with. "We the people stopped meaning we the people who are white." Really dives the point home.
"Endowed" is a word commonly seen in only three places: The Declaration, the world of high finance, and describing the size of one's pecker. Tommy was bragging about all three at once.
It's not a proper ERB without a proper pecker joke.
Frederick Douglass killed it in this battle. The actor portraying him does so with such conviction. It also helps that the real Frederick Douglass was an admirable man.
This battle basically happened because JB Smoove approached the ERB crew and said "I really want to play Frederick Douglass in an ERB. Can you make that happen for me please?" and they obliged.
I had no idea that was the case, thank you for educating me. Also, that's awesome!
We can't prove he invented the swivel chair because Franklin hadn't invented the patent system yet
!!!!!!!
Makes one wonder why he invented that system...
Douglass definitely took this.. Occasionally, the ERB team will write a battle with an intended winner to teach a specific lesson or give a specific message. This is one of those battles.
Yea it’s no surprise Douglass won. Actually Jefferson had no chance. I think they should’ve teamed FD with someone who had a similar life maybe like Harrriet Tubman. Or maybe even someone not even related to slavery like that battle between mother teresa vs sigmund freud. It was good and hilarious.
Yeah, like the battle of the Bruces 😂
Yeah that’s when it got bad. Before it was for the most part even but then they went on this run where it pushes an agenda and that’s not fun.
@@chi7818 i hated the trump v clinton because of all the unbelievably obvious clinton bias throughout and painting trump badly. The point of the battles is so they're given an equal chance
@@beastlyman114 thats exactly what i mean about it not being even or fair, it was filled with bias. since these raps are both produced by the same group of people and they purposefully made Trump look bad, that's not fair is all im saying. if you write both sides, and make one shit on purpose it defeats the purpose and changes it from a fictional rap battle to a political message.
It's always so much fun to see someone with a deep understanding of the people involved in one of these battles react to them, especially if you're not a well of wisdom in that particular area yourself. As a European, I have a decent understanding of the American War of Independence/Civil War and what transpired, but I know significantly less about the specific people involved. Therefore, it was nice to have someone break things down way better than I could.
I liked the battle but it's unfortunately very one-sided. It felt more like an examination of Jefferson than a battle between him and Douglass. I feel like I learned a lot about Jefferson - good and bad - but very, very little about Douglass. I appreciate that Douglass himself went after Jefferson's throat but Jefferson never said anything of note about Douglass. He criticized him for writing three autobiographies but then went on to spend his whole battle talking about himself, which kind of defeats the point.
I think Douglass himself was outstanding, though. Even if Jefferson had come at him with everything he could have, I suspect Douglass would have won. He did an amazing job laying out all of Jefferson's flaws.
Very good disection of the battle and review
Yeah...I imagine that it is a lot easier to write disses about the fairly controversial Jefferson than Fredrick Douglass. For a lot of reasons.
Too many words for a TH-cam comment
@@davidharshman7645 nah, it’s just taboo for a white man to diss a black man too hard. Call a spade a spade. (coming from a latino)
Jefferson should have blasted Douglass for being a thief (Douglass stole himself by running away from his owner). Lol
The other thing ERB does with historical figures is to try to mimic the way that individual spoke during speeches or ither media they were recorded doing. If they don't have voice recordings to work with they use their writing style which is evident here, also Shakespearevs Dr Seuss.
Jefferson has a better flow deliberately. He understood music, and had a way with words unlike many others of his time.
Douglas had to learn to read and write in a time and place where it was illegal for him to do so. He went on to write 3 books but the prose is not very fluid. Combined with his anger and frustration with what happened after the 13th amendment was ratified, the way he raps here makes sense.
Good catch on the Three-Fifths Compromise, which is often misunderstood. It was strictly for the purposes of counting states' population -- which determines how many representatives and electoral votes a state gets, as well as how much they would pay in taxation (more population = higher tax). Free blacks were counted fully.
That ensured that slave states would have fewer representatives in the House of Representatives.
@@jehuxtable That insured that Slave States would have MORE representation than the number of citizens that existed in their States. Many people totally misinterpret the Compromise. And it wasn't about taxes, the Federal Taxes were on imports and alcohol.
The 3/5ths compromise was a plan to help the free states get more reps in congress so slavery could be phased out over time. Also, the 3/5ths compromise didn't specify race, it specified slave vs free. So all black free men were counted as a full person, and there were many in the south. There is no way the US would have won independence if they didn't get the south to go along with them so even at the constitutional convention they had to give some concessions to the southern states, originally only free men were counted, but the south balked at that so they had to come to a compromise that would get the south to go along with the Constitution after the failure of the articles of confederation.
@@Foolish188 Please, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong; this is very much the sort of thing I don't want to be telling people if it's false, BUT the Compromise was itself to prevent the Slave States from having more power since the slave owners could force their slaves to vote their way. So while obviously the slaves should indeed be counted as full people, they're in a situation to have that power used against them. Truly a tragic irony to need to be counted as less of a person to help benefit your future, but history is severely fucked up.
Jefferson created the “mouldboard of least resistance" based off flaws in the European plow design. Which sounds like something Jefferson to call something 🙄 And he did invent the swivel chair. I’m not sure of any messiness around it. Supposedly it was the chair he drafted the Declaration in. Supposedly. Lots of “supposedly”s around Jefferson lol
the "moldboard' Modern American spelling, Jefferson using English spelling still in use there today, is a lot older then Jefferson It was first used in China more then 2000 yr ago. In this case the word moult comes from the Old high German word "molta" meaning loose soils this is what a moldboard does as will as allowing the plough to turn soil over and bury derby and weed seeds
Any farmer knows this
Dont use them much anymore as we now know that no til is a better way to farm
@@frederickbays405 Thanks for the info 🖤
@@frederickbays405 No till is best, if you don't have to spend every second of your life with a hoe fighting weeds.
I felt like Jefferson really didn't have much of a second verse
Douglass had Jefferson shook after that first verse. He took his eye off winning the battle and tried to appeal to the enemy. I just don't think he was ready for this but it happens
Your knowledge is epic, erb reactions always on point
Been waiting for this one
Lol me too
Frederick Douglas was an amazing, intelligent person that fought for freedom for all.
I would like to see more of this specific kind of content
The “slave momma” was his wife’s half-sister, since her father also had a baby with a slave
Hell yeah keep em coming this channel getting up there
It wasn't so much that a black man was considered 3/5 of a white man. They were trying to determine how many congressmen and how much of a say each state would have and the slave states wanted to go by population so they would have more power and more say in the direction of the country. It's actually the people who want to end slavery that's made the 3/5 rule
He didn't just send soldiers.... Those were Marines, and it's the engagement that gave us "the shores of Tripoli" in the Marine Hymn.
Barbary pirates - “shores of Tripoli”
Semper Fi
USMC put the fight in their song.
The illness of my quill. He means the Declaration of Independence. He was a skilled writer.
Also, the ''When in the Course of human events..." part is at the start of said document.
The First Barbary War is part of what the kings and pirates beware referred to
Jefferson wrote, in the DoI, that all men were endowed, by their Creator, with inalienable rights, including Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
He went to war against the Barbary Pirates.
When they did the census, slaves counted for 3/5s of a man. The slave states wanted to count them as 1 man, to boost the number of Representatives they sent to Washington, non slave states didn't want to count them, as slaves had no representation. Slaves would have been better off not being counted, as it only sent more pro slavery people to Washington
Yup, fun fact: yeah, both Thomas Jefferson and John Adams died on the same day: July 4, 1826.
Both thought the other was the last to go too.
This is the one I've been waiting for lol
I totally missed the Straight Outta Compton reference. Also...your reaction to "We cool?" Hysterical!
I'll definitely give the flow and cadence to Jefferson as well. But I give the "W" to Freddy D. He was punching like he was Tyson back in the day and Jefferson just insulted his lisp.
You know your stuff my man, respect
Nice vids I love them keep up the good work.👍👍♥️♥️
Loved this battle when it came out, loved this video!
I’m so glad you finally cleaned up the vid display for ERB. Did my last reply to someone about it make you realize that it was just the Maker Studio-owned battles that were giving you issues? I didn’t know if that was specifically the case, but it was the running theory I had about why any ERB would get claimed.
Jefferson was also an apologist so it actually makes a lot of sense as to why a whole verse was dedicated to him apologizing
You break these down like no other.
congrats on 300k man!!
Douglass absolutely won this one
NGL, I just discovered you today and have been watching ERB since inception. When I watched a video and saw you did ERB videos, I came straight to this one.
Nice. I've seen this vid before many times and never noticed "dug less." Thanks!
The dispute about Thomas Jefferson and the swivel chair tends to be whether he was using it while writing the Declaration of Independence or not. It isn't actually disputed that he invited the chair.
This has to be my favorite ERB, the beat, the rhymes, the flow, the cadence… Impeccable
Boyd. Bruh. You don't look anywhere near younger than me enough to say Pepe Le Pew was before your time lol.
To be fair, he didn't own his slaves at his death, the bank did.
This whole thing is ridiculous because the actual Douglass was not a moron and so had a much better grasp of history and more respect for Jefferson than ERB does.
You're in a rap battle, you use the ammunition you have. Truth was for all of Jefferson's ideals, he never reconciled his loftiest goals with the actions of his life, and that applies to more than just slavery BTW. It's true he hated slavery, it's also true that he didn't do much about the issue either because of personal failings or the politics of the time wouldn't allow him to act decisively.
“What to the Slave Was the Fourth of July”
“Supposedly” and asterisks. Same thing lol
I love this one 🖤
Pepe le Pew was around for my generation. I was born in 1990 and remember watching Looney Tunes religiously.
Nice break down of this History Battle.
"When in the course of human events it become necessary" is the opening to the DOI so thats another one
This is a good one
Waiting for a Albert Einstein vs Stephen reaction
4:20 We KNOW he invented a book swivel so he could reference between multiple (mostly law) books...It's basically the same principle, but you may be right that he didn't have documentation for the chair...and they serve the same purpose, to allow you or the books to turn to see multiple laid across a desk...
Also about the photo bit. People often didnt smile or had stone face because getting your photo take took a long time. Camera shots were not instant and you had to stay very still for long periods of time so it can capture a clean image of you.
It was actually a carry-over from having a portrait painted. Neutral faces were the style of the time because it made sitting down for a painting easier. Large format photography would have shutter speeds ranging from 1/30s to about 30s depending on the light. Anyone can smile and hold still for a few seconds. By the 1920's cameras got smaller and shutter speeds got faster, so photographers started taking pictures of people more naturally (think Cunningham's depression work).
❤ quality content and I am certainly interested in more and coming back. You've gained me as a follower!
i have 2 major problems with this battle.
the first is that: word play aside, fredericks lines *heavily* relied on constantly pointing out Jeffersons hypocrisy. which is a valid criticism...but it got tired fast (imo)
the second is that jeffersons second verse was essentially a surrender. made me a little sad :(
edit: oh, and the specifics about the 3/5ths compromise. each slave counted as 3/5 of a person for the purposes of a states population when it came to determining the number of representatives that state got.
One poor fact for Thomas Jefferson he intended to free his slaves on his death but Virginia outlawed that shortly before he died. George Washington was able to do it only because he died soon enough
But something most people do not know because I guess you just go with the loudest voice these days, he made all of his slaves part of his family, meaning they could not just be enslaved by another. Many did choice to be a slave for hire tho seeing how that was better than trying to find a job and be paid very little.
Jefferson was also in crippling debt. Even if the state allowed him to free his slaves, I doubt his bank would allow such a thing.
He still had slaves bruh…. And he still treated them like slaves. Being a slightly kinder slaveowner still makes you a fucking slaveowner. Which is still entirely fucked up when his own peers like Hamilton were abolitionists.
Regarding the photos: Fun fact! Because photographs at the time required long exposure and very few people could smile for that long, a lot of the photographs have the subjects wearing very serious expressions. So, who knows? There may be several "botched" photographs of Frederick Douglass where he couldn't keep his composure during the shoot and had to burst out laughing.
Happy Birthday man
Since I first watched this the first time I loved Douglas' two parts. He comes in with a great and genius bang and beats Jefferson to the ground.
The Pirates bar was in reference to the First Barbary war. Jefferson attempted to buy treaties with the Barbary Pirates when he was Secretary of State. When the Barbars raised the price of tribute to keep US ships safe after Jefferson was elected President he refused and then sent the US Navy to attack the Barbary Coast, hence the First Barbary War.
Pretty sure you're right about Hamilton and Jefferson having a sort of rivalry
Jefferson had a rivalry with Adam's, Burr had the famous rivalry with Hamilton.
This a great timing upload because weren’t there news about NY wanting to remove a statue of Jefferson?
9:55 One thing worth noting about the pictures at the time, they were faster than portraits, but nothing like modern cameras. It's definitely difficult to portray emotion in stone, but it's absolutely possible if you're trying and know what you're doing. Getting your picture taken in Douglass' day required sitting as still as possible for at least a few hours, so a relatively blank face was the easiest to hold for that long, trying to convey emotion there was dependent on the dedication and effort put forth by the subject, while with sculpture or portraiture, it was at least as much in the hands of the artist.
Civil War photography shutter speeds were almost always less than a minute in length.
@@JamesWillmus Alright, thank you for the correction, though sitting still for a minute can still be plenty of strain if you're actually trying to keep a pailníonn expression on your face.
This was really a no-win scenario for Jefferson. Either he, as you said, wastes a verse apologizing for slavery, or he acts like it was alright and turns the audience against him that way.
Jefferson did make some steps towards equality that he should be credited for, however the hypocrisy in maintaining his own ownership of slaves and his fear of losing mass appeal keeping him from taking a stronger stance should also be noted.
I do like how they mentioned the asterisk in this battle for this one. Its pretty fitting to the reality of the situation.
Ever seen the early draft of the Declaration of Independence where Jefferson takes a remarkably strong stand against slavery? It ended up being considered too controversial and scrapped -- the idea was, "Look, Tom, we're trying to gain freedom from England, let's not bring slavery into this now." The economy of the South was dependent upon slavery, and Jefferson couldn't deny that.
@@kck9742 yeah but tbh it seemed like he kinda gave up near the end. A defeatist attitude about it. There is a chance he could have put a lot more sway in public opinion in the later years of his life.
I think he just got so used to "that's how it is" that he no longer felt that it could be fought against in significant ways.
In the 1800s it was considered foolish and clownish to smile in photos. That is why you see practically no old black and white photos with people smiling.
Eh, it's more that it took a long time to actually TAKE a photo back then, and you had to stay still for up to thirty seconds. Try holding a smile for that long -- it's uncomfortable. Also people didn't have great teeth (and many adults were probably missing some). There are quite a few examples of 19th century people clowning, smiling, and laughing in photos.
The first draft of the Declaration of Independence was written with a section dedicated to the Immorality of slavery and the fact that the Crown had forced it on the colonies. However it was removed because it was felt that the southern states would not approve.
The part where the character of Jefferson says. "OK I participated in a broken system that I hated but I had to do what I did to keep my financial system situated" that is the solid truth right there!
when Thomas Jefferson goes over his own resume he actually held back a ton.... every time people recently would call Hillary Clinton the most qualified candidate for president in history I would have to bust out laughing and mention all the shit that Jefferson did before he became president. Not even a close comparison.
On the other hand the claim that her opponent Donald Trump was the LEAST qualified candidate in presidential history probably was true.
I really appreciate your explanations. I'm really kinda blown away by the fact about Douglas was a Marshall. That's awesome! Even for the time that's incredible 😮
Can we just appreciate someone teaching themself to read!? That's some incredible determination when most self teaching moments involve some sort of written research you pretty much need to know how to read. So if you can't read text, you'd usually have someone read it to you, but teaching yourself to fuckin read has gotta be a whole level of difficult I'm glad I didn't have to deal with, mad respect to those that did
Regarding the nickel to quote Dave Chappelle “our money is nothing but baseball cards with slave owners on them”
The 3/5ths Claus was to under mind the southern plantation owners. So slavery would ultimately lose
thing is the 13,14 and 15th amendments were all opposed by democrats and the first 30+ blacks to ever hold major office were all republicans.many were pastors including Hiram Revels.
the civil rights bill of 1866 also granted civil rights to blacks.also passed by republicans
To be fair, that was back when Republicans were the progressive party and the Dixiecrats were southern conservatives. While both parties will claim parts of their history from that far back, the reality is that neither party is the same organization that it was 150+ years ago.
@@davidharshman7645 Please tell me when they magically switched sides. Democrats have always been on the side of tyranny.
@@kck9742 It wasn't magic. It happened around when Theodore Roosevelt split the Republican party. And your statement about Democrats always being on the side of tyranny is just flatly false.
@@davidharshman7645 LOL, okay, great detail there, bucko. It never happened. And yeah, Democrats were and always have been. Who supported slavery? Democrats. Who supported Jim Crow? Democrats. Who created the welfare state that keeps people dependent on government? Democrats. I can't think of a single time Democrats have been on the right side of anything. Today they are just absolutely insane.
I always enjoy seeing people's reactions to any of the ERBs the first time, with that being said: Luke Skywalker Vs Harry Potter, Trump Vs Biden, and George Washington Vs William Wallace are well written. Pretty much all of them are.
Jefferson's personal library became the Library of Congress, after the original collection was burned by the British in 1812 Jefferson owned the largest collection of books in the country so he donated it to start the new library. The books he gave are still in Washington today.
the pirates line is about the first Barbary War.. America's first foreign war, under Jefferson, against the pirates of the North African "Barbary coast"
When I first saw the clip I thought it was Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges vs Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and if ERBOH hasn't done them that would be a good one
He was stoic but he definitely had a regality to himself. He was a great inspiration 👏. Frederick Douglas was a badass. Like the most historic figure i can recall being friends with a former president.
Not sure if you’ve heard of Princess Rap battles, but I would recommend Cinderella vs Belle if you are interested.
For the sake of the battle, I would have really preffered if they had given Jefferson an actual second verse instead of an apology round.
Disney just bought Maker, and it was 2016 election, they had a lot of left leaning woke crap in their ERB that year.
Jefferson was an apologist. For slavery among other things. It's fitting.
I LOVE your look after Jefferson said “we cool?” Hell no! 🤣🤣🤣 Also, the hypocrisy wasn’t just about Jefferson’s stance on slavery, but literally his fame of being a founding father for gaining “freedom” from England all the while enslaving unrecognized Americans. I really like how Douglass spit facts, the right amount of outrage, but ended it like the intelligent man that he was, noting that Jefferson, and the US, needs to have an asterisk whenever there’s a discussion of freedom; because freedom isn’t free when it’s paid for on the backs of the enslaved.
Awe yess follow the dopamine
3/5 compromise for representation in Congress - North didn't want to count slaves as citizens, thereby granting the South more representatives (which would have simply given the Southerners who could vote more representation than their Northern counterparts), and the South wanted the slaves counted in full (but not granted any rights of citizenship whatsoever, giving them exactly what the Northerners were objecting to). The 3/5 Compromise was struck, whereby each slave was counted as 3/5 of a person for the purposes of the Census used to determine seats in the House of Representatives.
Incidentally, most Constitutional Originalists seem to conveniently forget about things like the 3/5 Compromise when making their arguments, and they tend to get really flustered when it's brought up.
Bro here did a decent job remembering history of these two men. Not bad...
But you are a little off on the 3/5th thing.........
Abolitionists in the North wanted to end slavery. They comprehended that if the Slaves were counted as a person, then the Slave Owners would have a super majority in congress based on population.
It was the Abolitionist's idea that if the Slaves weren't counted as people, the Slave Masters wouldn't have so many representatives in congress, and in hopes that the fewer representatives of Slave Masters would cause there to be a majority of those who would abolish slavery.
But the Slave Masters wanted power and control. So there was a "compromise" that the black slave would be counted as 3/5th's of a person.
And the Slave owners won so many seats that we had to have a civil war just to end slavery.
Remember children...... it wasn't "racist Republicans" that didn't want Slaves to count as people because of racism. It was because they didn't want the census to give slave owners more representation in congress.
This is a critical distinction. But also remember, children, the abolitionists weren't "Republicans". They were the "Whig" Party - which later became the Republican party.
Thomas Jefferson started the Democrat party. Slave owners just had to be slave owners, no matter what they had to write in congress.
1:43 he wrote things against John Adams
I don't see Frederick Douglas' verse as rage, more like indignation
Yes!🔥🔥🔥🔥
Anybody ever, ever, ever would lose if they apologized for something that heinous... and then said "We cool?"
In a rap battle specifically, but also IRL.
You seem to know a far bit about many things but your understanding of TJ even FD seems lacking. Please read "The Jefferson Lies: Exposing the Myths You've Always Believed About Thomas Jefferson" using original documentation the negative modern narrative is shown for what it is. And i cant recall the books on FD (as it was highschool) but he was far more impressive then most people know and one of his best traits was self improving so when he was asked to speak on the 3/5 compromises he read up and realized how imbecilic his understanding was.
Im pretty sure (might be wrong), but the only reason Jefferson kept his slaves was because he was using them as collateral since he was in a large sum of debt. Also, while writing the draft, he had multiple paragraphs saying that they should abolish slavery but multiple founding fathers heavily disagreed
Here is a black dude who knows more about Thomas Jefferson than I do. I wonder if he is one of those descendants of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings?
I was glad that ERB did such a nice job with Fredrick Douglass. I am a fan of both historic figures.
Douglass was more heroic. No question. He won here too I think.
(I am related to Jefferson through a family named Sother by the way. This reactor could be my distant cousin like Jefferson is).
I'm not 100% on this but from what I think I remember, Thomas Jefferson, although having one of his primary beliefs being that a military should be small, he raised the size of the naval force so that the Barbary Pirates would leave the American merchant ships alone. He felt that appeasing the Pirates with bribes would only last temporarily before more money would be demanded to protect American ships.
They did dirty on Jefferson. Just because his opponent had the higher moral ground, it doesn't mean he should spend an entire verse apologizing. I think ERB were trying to remain too PC so they had to give this one to Douglas and made Jefferson weak on purpose.
Agreed. Jefferson's first verse was good but he basically didn't have a second verse. It seemed like a whole lot of virtue signalling.
@@Wilsbourne Deisny had just bought Maker Studio, and the 2016 elections were that year so yeah.
As much as Hillary wanted to be first, Victoria Woodhull nominated Frederick Douglass as her Vice President when she was running for the Presidential Office. (She knew she couldn't win, but wanted women to be heard. Mr. Douglass wasn't aware that he had even been nominated until after the election.)
yeah not beyond your time with the looney toons thing I'm only 27 and grew up watching re-runs on something called "The Bugs Bunny and Tweety Show"
Jefferson couldn't free the baby mama because she wasn't his slave. She belonged to his wife. By Virginia law, he could only free his own half of his slaves, and only upon his death, which he did. He also included bashing the king over introducing and requiring slaves in the colonies in his draft of the declaration of independence, it was removed on subsequent writings because th southern states were needed to maintain independence. And lastly Douglas wouldn't have used the three fifths compromise in the way it was used here. He wrote and spoke about it and understood it was an attempt to reduce the power of the southern slave states and not to reduce slaves to being 3/5ths of a white man. Douglas is my favorite intellectual from that period and he was portrayed quite poorly in this battle.
Just one thing, in the Constitution it is a slave is counted as 3/5ths of a man, didn't matter the race of the slave, there were white slaves, black slaves and native slaves at the time, there were also black, white and native slave owners.
Thomas Jefferson wanted to make all people free at the time the constitution was written. Unfortunately, southern states didn't. They made their money through agriculture and slavery. That is why Thomas Jefferson's last paragraph was omitted.
Pepe le Pew was introduced around the time World War 2 ended but nowadays he's kind of been benched indefinitely due to controversy
TJ is my absolute favorite historical figure. He was brilliant but so incredibly irresponsible in all aspects of his personal life.
Back then nobody smiled in photographs. It was expensive and rare so people wanted to show their serious side. The 3/5'th's compromise was wanted by the south for more representation.
The south wanted all slaves counted toward congressional representation. The compromise was proposed to actually reduce the power of the southern slave states.
Yeah...the 3/5th Compromise was for census purposes, determining how many electors and congressmen a state would be allowed. Unfortunately, slaves (and free blacks) of the time did not get direct representation in any way.
@@davidharshman7645 In fact, their numbers were used to get more southern lawmakers who would ensure they never got represented and nothing to help them could be passed. Thats a nice extra kick in the gonads. Though I have to wonder how many slaves back then were even aware of all that considering they cant exactly do google searches on their lunch breaks.
It really is too bad that there are no writing from Sally Hemings. Did she have any feelings for and want to be with Jefferson or was she a captive slave being raped? I remember reading that she went to France with the Jefferson family and had the opportunity to stay and be free, but actually (god knows why) to return to Monticello. They had six children together, which from his perspective likely means she meant a great deal to him. I think he likely loved her, but was it consensual in any way. This relationship is unusual particularly within the framework of slavery. If any writings of hers were to be discovered, it would possibly completely redefine Jefferson.
"was she a captive slave" Well seeing how very few slaves were captives in the first place along with the fact she was born in America, by a "white" father.
Theres many reports on Sally from both Jefferson and his family and hers. He freed her brother at her request, she was not his slave to free but his wife so the word is he give her a good bit of money and allowed her and the children "runaway"....his slaves liked him, they liked being his slaves because of how well he treated them, he even made them part of his family which gave them benefits when they were freed, heck a few he freed even came back and worked for him, as in a slave for hire.