Are Disinformation Boards Ever a Good Thing?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 157

  • @sebwk01
    @sebwk01 ปีที่แล้ว +116

    Ironically I just wrote an exam on the dangers of disinformation in a mandatory philosophy class for engineers this year. It did not pass, and I was told that the commitee distanced themselves from my viewpoints...

    • @W-G
      @W-G ปีที่แล้ว +30

      Well it makes me sad that university / US college has turned into another pipeline of 'right think'. Such a shame our education system is so fucked.

    • @jllarivee60
      @jllarivee60 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Don't worry buddy. Universities are starting to lose credibility because of their ridiculous views.

    • @martinbrousseau2560
      @martinbrousseau2560 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      “Civility requires the ability to debate at any cost the morality over mind, body and soul. - Martin Brousseau”

    • @opinion4755
      @opinion4755 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      OMG! Which school?

    • @opinion4755
      @opinion4755 ปีที่แล้ว

      See I live in a country next to Russia and they have been trying to influence politics and corrupt media since the fall of Soviet Union. So the information war is real. I don't know if Peterson realises that fully.

  • @thijssie873
    @thijssie873 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    This was stunningly well put. Without free speech you die, instead of your thoughts. Amazing jordan!

    • @martinbrousseau2560
      @martinbrousseau2560 ปีที่แล้ว

      Lawyers the last like of defence in free speech, Russian Tax Lawyer Serge Magnitsky was jailed and tortured to death by President Vladimir Putin, much like I was confined to represent myself in court 3x monthly tortured to insanity surviving suicide at any cost ideation like a sheepdog protecting the heard I simultaneously had to heal myself from insanity as the majority refused to debate healing the mind of mental health injuries. “Civility requires the ability to debate at any cost the morality over mind, body and soul. - Martin Brousseau”

    • @martinbrousseau2560
      @martinbrousseau2560 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank You for your comment as it helped me draft a different explanation of my definition of a civilized society.

  • @ssjgokuhan
    @ssjgokuhan ปีที่แล้ว +48

    These clips from your tour have been great. I was afraid anything new from Dr P. would be stuck behind a paywall after he joined DW. I'm glad that is not the case.

  • @angeloareniego3615
    @angeloareniego3615 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    It is truly impressive and admirable that such valuable information is being shared freely and made accessible to everyone.❤

  • @FHBStudio
    @FHBStudio ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I love being told I'm wrong and much moreso being shown to be in error. It means one more day to live without mistakes, one more way to avoid those pitfalls.

  • @quantizemusicproductions
    @quantizemusicproductions ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Amazing points, Dr. Jordan Peterson. The universe would definitely be worse off without you. Keep up the good and great work!

  • @markzenith1441
    @markzenith1441 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Jordan Peterson is one of those avatars in my head lately. Trying to figure out how to navigate my way to where I want to be. I don't care about whatever implication the solution might have. I just want a solution.

  • @BinaryJoe
    @BinaryJoe ปีที่แล้ว +9

    It was pointed out to me recently that Satan was the first fact checker.
    The tradition continues at the same pace and outcome.

  • @Ozgipsy
    @Ozgipsy ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The Ministry of Truth.

  • @darrennew8211
    @darrennew8211 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    There's certainly some disinformation out there: Sovereign Citizen stuff, Flat Earth stuff, Young Earth Creationism. But that's never the kind of disinformation that these people want to regulate.

    • @awnaur0no919
      @awnaur0no919 ปีที่แล้ว

      people who scream & cry bout "disinformation" is usually tha biggest perpetuators of "disinformation" theyselves; if they arguments held any legit weight, they wouldnt need to womanishly smear & slander they oppositions views wit categorical claims of doubleplusungoodthought. tha solution 2 more honest & accurate & realistic dialog always more free speech, never less, tha tyrion lannister quote about cutting out niggas tongues, etc

    • @Simply_Simian
      @Simply_Simian ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The answer to those patently bad and observably false notions is always better notions with better reasoning communicated in an effective manner.

    • @darrennew8211
      @darrennew8211 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Simply_Simian I agree. And any "warnings" about it should have links to authoritative information on where to learn more. They certainly shouldn't be censored. But if the situation is current politics (vs, say, holocaust denial) then I think it should be hands off. Nobody should be authoritatively telling you whether your suspicions of russian disinformation campaigns are right or wrong.

    • @ANonymous-mo6xp
      @ANonymous-mo6xp ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm a free speech absolutist. Communism is ALL FUCKING LIES, yet I support their right to speak. But when they get power the first thing they do is remove free speech. That alone shows what side is good and what side is EVIL.

  • @hoobyhoo
    @hoobyhoo ปีที่แล้ว

    His first response was it!!! Bam! Thanks again Jordan Peterson. 💞

  • @abyssmom2692
    @abyssmom2692 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Phew. Needed that.

  • @lordvoldemort4242
    @lordvoldemort4242 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Dr. Peterson growing in the archetypal wise old man❤

  • @tuppybrill4915
    @tuppybrill4915 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Can we have some sort of law that obligates every politician (at least) to listen to this UNTIL they understand it - ONLY THEN do they get to govern.
    Probably be an idea to extend it to every teacher, scientist, industrialist etc

  • @narcismebelgie
    @narcismebelgie ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love your soul so much!!

  • @dalibofurnell
    @dalibofurnell ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The facts are revealed as a consequence of dialogue , fractious difficult dialogue.
    Thought is dependent on dialogos.
    Thought is what allows you to generate new variants of itself that aren't destined to catastrophic failure.
    That's the process which adaptation itself makes itself manifest.
    The reason you think is so that you don't fall into a pit.
    Dialogue - dia means 2 , logue refers to logos , the Devine word . Dialogos is between two.
    Without thinking, you die, or a presupposition of you dies.
    When an Unpleasant truth makes itself manifest, you really have something to learn.

  • @markzenith1441
    @markzenith1441 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I've been banned from a lot of social media platforms for thoughts that ended up being right and were supported with facts. That's why I never use my real name anymore.
    On here it was for commenting on Chinese state media.

    • @Brandon-1996
      @Brandon-1996 ปีที่แล้ว

      What else were you banned from, and why?
      "Commenting on Chinese state media" is short, sweet, and to the point.

    • @markzenith1441
      @markzenith1441 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Brandon-1996 I said it like that because it was multiple comments for youtube.
      For quora it was for questions and comments about viral adaptation in respect to Covid in 2019.
      Reddit ban was for saying communism will always be statist.
      Twitter, and lesser-known sites were much older bans and I don't remember what I said. I don't really use social media anyways.
      This is based on what I can best remember. The reason for quroa and Reddit are the most accurate but for Reddit there were two other reasons I don't remember.

  • @AlphaWolfun
    @AlphaWolfun ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Most of the thinking that resolves into fighting isn't helpful and most of the lives we live are ended when thats the only resolution we come to being worked to provide to survive. Then being judged for not being present being actively worked to make the bare minimum to get by and being judged for showing any emotions and being labeled for using incorrect terms and noone else having patience to think or use thought as they'd rather walk away and play the blame game.

  • @teronjames7457
    @teronjames7457 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    freedom of speech is built in our self...is part of our human body..... freedom of speech.....is your voice to create language transfer to words so you can communicate to other human being... and your ear to listen even people who disagree with you....have a freedom of speech to

  • @MG8181.
    @MG8181. ปีที่แล้ว +4

    They are dissing information

  • @audreyroche9490
    @audreyroche9490 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    When u can't express how y truly feel then u feel like a lier to go along with what makes u feel uncomfortable

  • @IJIJIJI688
    @IJIJIJI688 ปีที่แล้ว

    keep speaking legend!!!!!!

  • @stacysmith3676
    @stacysmith3676 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Because we always take everything as facts off the internet. This sounds like the thought police we were warned about.

  • @martinbrousseau2560
    @martinbrousseau2560 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Lawyers the last line of defence in free speech. Russian Tax Lawyer Serge Magnitsky was jailed and tortured to death by President Vladimir Putin, much like I was confined to represent myself in court 3x monthly or face jail, tortured to insanity surviving suicide at any cost ideation like a sheepdog protecting the heard I simultaneously had to heal myself from insanity as the majority refused to debate healing the mind of mental health injuries. “Civility requires the ability to debate at any cost the morality over mind, body and soul. - Martin Brousseau”

  • @galaxyofreesesking2124
    @galaxyofreesesking2124 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The people who are genuinely convinced that dangerous opinions not only exist and are extremely bad, but that all of every society except Sweden for some reason holds these beliefs actually break my heart.

    • @FHBStudio
      @FHBStudio ปีที่แล้ว +7

      There are dangerous ideas and opinions out there, but censoring them is not the solution. It's better to counter them. The solution to bad speech is more and better speech.

    • @justanothernick3984
      @justanothernick3984 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@FHBStudio
      At a point there needs to be a moderator and an arbiter. Free speech technically means you get to vote for representatives to diplomatically debate within the Overton window. You can try to speak your mind but you will meet reactions, be it passive like isolation or active like losing your occupation.

    • @galaxyofreesesking2124
      @galaxyofreesesking2124 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@justanothernick3984 The idea that society decides what ideas are better is entirely predicated on the idea that people ought to speak freely, even about ideas that are untruthful or potentially harmful. So "moderator and an arbiter" can only be meaningful if society understands the costs and drawbacks to wanting to understand truth.

    • @joshwillingham4592
      @joshwillingham4592 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@justanothernick3984 The arbiter is reality. The ideas that work, will play out that way in reality. The ideas that don't work will play out that way in reality. It is catastrophically tragic that we often have to learn the hard way as Jordan put it, but if humans were capable of being such an arbiter and we as a species we're capable of consistently recognizing and listening to such people, this would not be an issue to begin with. There is no one so wise, intelligent, and humble to be able to control the flow of information to all of humanity in a competent and selfless way. Those who play out ideas that work will have a greater chance to make it.

    • @justanothernick3984
      @justanothernick3984 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@galaxyofreesesking2124
      Moderators can be courts, or medical consensus. Not one thing. But you can partially influence these through voting in representatives to speak for your values. We just had a pandemic testing this out. And Roe v Wade.
      Different fields will moderate themselves in a democracy. And that's the free speech one has. This doesn't work in dictatorships.

  • @readersareleaders4570
    @readersareleaders4570 ปีที่แล้ว

    sir ,i just saw your video recommondation ,by the way i am watching you from last 4 years i will love to tell you are the one the most intelligent man who has hold , actually who mastered in his work such that you can portay any different psychological concept down to a verbal movie for me so that i can easily understand ... and yeah about the logo of this video is so damn creative it is like i saw the images of video thumbnails but it was too easy to read it didnt create any impact but your video images was a art of perfection ,so i consumed 10 minutes watching that and 17 minutes to inform you about this

  • @pagexx
    @pagexx ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great thumbnail! So clever!

  • @nelsonang
    @nelsonang ปีที่แล้ว +1

    singapore, where i’m from, has the Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act 😂

  • @stevehines7520
    @stevehines7520 ปีที่แล้ว

    "facet' "facets" not having to participate in battles is the only place of perception where the clearest picture can be seen. In understanding all facets is a reset in balanced human dependency. One of the greatest imbalances is the perceived need of someone else needed to protect you. For all those who choose to battle, none of you are capable of protecting those outside the battle. They exist. They do not need the protection of any of those who are battling. They are the very foundation of the future of humanity destined to move beyond the material constructs of war.

  • @MrRuggero95
    @MrRuggero95 ปีที่แล้ว

    Debunking lies has nothing to do with freedom of speech. I'm so sad that Peterson has put that in these terms.

  • @5tw3b45tcf
    @5tw3b45tcf ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm very grateful that free thinking and free speech is so well encouraged here. I hope that we can have more free speech and free thought so that the whole society is happier overall, and so that the unfortunate people can become more happier as well, and to find God's will.

  • @ajossi
    @ajossi ปีที่แล้ว +1

    rule #1: DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING THE GOVERNMENT TELLS YOU!

  • @audreyroche9490
    @audreyroche9490 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It's how a child feels when there unable to express themselves

  • @bugmeanie6526
    @bugmeanie6526 ปีที่แล้ว

    🧙‍♂️🪄💨 No!

  • @arandomguy777
    @arandomguy777 ปีที่แล้ว

    In a discussion someone is wrong. Being wrong is normal in free speech / democracy

  • @Edgar-Friendly
    @Edgar-Friendly ปีที่แล้ว +1

    No, Robespierre has shown that any and all attempts at a Committee For Public Safety are not good.

  • @michaelmcgarrity6987
    @michaelmcgarrity6987 ปีที่แล้ว

    There is Information (Data), and Information Processor (application of Reasoning to make Information useful for some purpose).
    Disinformation therefore must be either inaccurate information such as a measure of something such as an 8 ft. long board which is either 8 ft. per accepted Measuring Tools or it is not through a common Measurement {Information Process).
    This is objective Information which has the attribute of being Testable.
    There also exists, Subjective Information such as perception of Temperature (Cool or Warm) which is dependent on the feeling of individual observers having different sensory perception such as an Young Person feeling Warm at 70 Degrees Fahrenheit or an Old Person feeling Cool at the same Temperature.
    This Information is not testable or subject to a common Standard.
    So we have two Categories of information relative to Facts, Objective and Subjective Information relative to Facts. What seems to be going on is a forcing of Subjective Information process to Objective Information which is Orwellian. This is possible because many people have poor observation and reasoning ability.
    Information not subject to verification via testing is Subjective Information.
    These two Categories of information are being used interchangeably by many who don't have abilities to discern the difference.

  • @JFox4587
    @JFox4587 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Very clever thumbnail!

  • @lordvoldemort4242
    @lordvoldemort4242 ปีที่แล้ว

    Don’t allow daily wire plus to pull you too much into a business model. You have to make a profit, but I think, divinely, your purpose is to give that understanding granted to you by some supreme source in the universe (I know you studied) to as much people as possible. What do I know? Well, that’s why I’m putting this openly in the comments thereby allowing free speech (the logos ) to take it’s course. I appreciate you. I’ve built a piece of your essence into my character.

  • @stephenmarcil94
    @stephenmarcil94 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So articulate

  • @FiremarshalM1
    @FiremarshalM1 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This suit is the embodiment of Solzhenitsyn, "the line dividing...."
    No wonder he loves it.

    • @whousa642
      @whousa642 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It is from a company called LGFG. They have made 12 suits for 12 rules. This suit is heaven and hell suit.

    • @FiremarshalM1
      @FiremarshalM1 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@whousa642 thanks so much!

  • @keithjohnsonYT
    @keithjohnsonYT ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Really sick of these reindeer games…

  • @sensennsen
    @sensennsen ปีที่แล้ว

    This goes back in the Nietzschean story of "Truth", that there are truths which are dangerous.

  • @smdanny1
    @smdanny1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Earth revolving around the sun, human evolution, germs, gravity... These could all be considered "misinformation" back then

  • @realnaveen
    @realnaveen ปีที่แล้ว

    Selective freedom of expression and cancelation is discrimination; objective information that requires facts is history, allegations, real time incidents etc; subjective information shared based on observations, views, opinions, ideas, beliefs, perceptions etc; disagreements doesn't mean hate but hate begets hate; mass psychosis and paranoia is obvious source of chaos; deepfake and alterations is cons.

  • @5tw3b45tcf
    @5tw3b45tcf ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It probably is a very very bad idea if we appoint a central arbitrator(s) of truth and lies that is not God or is not appointed by God.

  • @dylogysminter
    @dylogysminter ปีที่แล้ว

    Normally i kind of share Petersons thoughts, but here i think he didn't quiet hit the mark. I mean there are so many people that don't know simple real facts, because they don't care to look at studies. So someone putting a stamp of "this is scientifically backed" behind something is just a good thing in my mind. And for many subjects there will be arguments from both sides that have scientists stand behind it. But sometimes people just tell lies without anything to back up their claims. And letting those people be heard is one thing but its not a bad thing to tell the world that that's just fabricated opinion.

    • @skumflum3768
      @skumflum3768 ปีที่แล้ว

      Scientific truth can be weaponized. E.g. 99% of climate scientists believe that the rise in temperature is man made and caused by co2 emissions. Now saying “this is not the biggest problem we have” would probably immediately get you in trouble with a fact check panel as there is “scientific consensus”. However, there are no scientific consensus on this being of apocalyptic proportion and actually maybe it’s not a good idea to put up windmills, capturing CO2 and force the farmers to produce less. This is a complex problem and no facts checker in the world can balance this out… only open dialogue

  • @coyoteden8111
    @coyoteden8111 ปีที่แล้ว

    13:11 "If I didn't want it to be true, it's probably true."

  • @audreyroche9490
    @audreyroche9490 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    People start getting more angry aggressive oppressed

  • @ANonymous-mo6xp
    @ANonymous-mo6xp ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This new suit of Jordan's is wicked.

    • @whousa642
      @whousa642 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It is from a company called LGFG. They have made 12 suits for 12 rules. This suit is heaven and hell suit.

  • @MrJabbothehut
    @MrJabbothehut ปีที่แล้ว

    No theyre not. The best way to combat disinformation is to have as many possible avenues of dialogue on the topic. It's the same as businesses and industry. Having competition is the only way to properly regulate behaviour. Every other way leads to unintended consequences.

  • @5tw3b45tcf
    @5tw3b45tcf ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I think everyone's mind, consciousness, and brain should be a disinformation board. Everyone needs to do their own thinking and judging of right and wrong. And then they can discuss with others and form a consensus. Actually, I guess it's the church that should have more authority over the world. And church should follow God lol.

  • @robhtp3817
    @robhtp3817 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Never a good thing!!!

  • @robhtp3817
    @robhtp3817 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    💯

  • @5tw3b45tcf
    @5tw3b45tcf ปีที่แล้ว

    o my gosh this is so good lolol: 10:28 "We CaN't hAvE AnY DIsiNfOrMaTioN~!?!?~"

  • @11hourfilm
    @11hourfilm ปีที่แล้ว

    Who is Ahriman?

  • @johnhendrixson8133
    @johnhendrixson8133 ปีที่แล้ว

    Give us a DanAI and shut up. Basically OpenAI ChatGPT, but as DanAI. The one that tells the truth no matter how hard it is, or who it offends.
    Screw these fact checkers, we need DanAI

  • @obviouslykaleb7998
    @obviouslykaleb7998 ปีที่แล้ว

    i don't know why Peterson dressed like Sheogorath for this speech, but every clip I've seen of it is fantastic.
    I guess that's what the wabbajack gets you

    • @whousa642
      @whousa642 ปีที่แล้ว

      The suit is made by a company called LGFG. There are 12 for 12 rules. This one is heaven and hell.

  • @Jamy528
    @Jamy528 ปีที่แล้ว

    👏

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The problem still setting in offices. The farther I go the more that comes out of subconscious 4yrs worth

  • @nuklearny8297
    @nuklearny8297 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mr. Jordan B Peterson I have a question for you, you probably won't read it,but I'll ask you anyway.I wanted to ask you about the ring you wear on your right hand because in the video you posted on TH-cam 8 days ago "Should You Be Worried About the WEF?" I noticed from the 27th second of the recording that you are playing with this ring and it has some influence on the cameras, maybe on electricity the important thing is that this ring distorts the camera image and sound. You can take me for a madman or a troll but I saw what I saw and I want to see more and i want to know what this ring is really made of.When you somehow read it, you probably wonder who I am and the answer is just an ordinary Polish person looking for answers,by the way sorry for spelling errors english is not my first language.

  • @risingtide_official
    @risingtide_official ปีที่แล้ว

    I can't believe how woke this guy is.

  • @martinbrousseau2560
    @martinbrousseau2560 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mead n Freud pioneers in their assessment and definition of a civilized society. This is my best attempt to define a civilization. “My enemies job is to kill me yet I can respect him as he does the best he can when he can with what he has, as do I, if I take him prisoner I afford him more civility over his mind, body, and soul than my own government affords me. While animals escape, remove or kill tyrants, as animals simultaneously debate mind, body n soul over the life of friend or foe by definition affords animals more civility than my own government affords me, unlike Russian President Vladimir Putin jailed and tortured to death Tax Lawyer Serge Magnitsky, much like my own government tortured me to insanity leaving me in a constant state of 3 seconds from suicide at any cost ideation survived only due to my willingness to bear torture at any cost like a sheepdog protecting the heard so a friend or foe would not have to bear the torture I have. Civility requires the ability to debate at any cost the morality over mind, body n soul. - Martin Brousseau”

    • @martinbrousseau2560
      @martinbrousseau2560 ปีที่แล้ว

      “Civility requires the ability to debate at any cost the morality over mind, body and soul. - Martin Brousseau”

  • @JaketheJust
    @JaketheJust ปีที่แล้ว

    You really want someone else to decide for you, relieve you the responsibility to tell or hear the truth for you?

  • @jds614
    @jds614 ปีที่แล้ว

    Harvey Dent two face suits are not a good look for anyone tbh

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    Priority is overall

  • @rauldjvp3053
    @rauldjvp3053 ปีที่แล้ว

    They keep humiliating you, so yeah, they’re good lmao

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    Lack of money found the saving graces of spirit. The cherubs I have justice with a go ahead. Stop thinking to overthink again to water down resonances

  • @samuelfoston4556
    @samuelfoston4556 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wtf….

  • @cx3268
    @cx3268 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Have seem OPINIONS fact checked...

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    A wording you will never know that it is over. Things will get tight. Or build water

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    Connections to correlation A new hunting season

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    This a battle of idea dominate I will win

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    I function when I get paid and services paid for done. All over people doing half ass

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tell me why GOD would force a civilization to find a solution to get of Earth

    • @gammagamer6397
      @gammagamer6397 ปีที่แล้ว

      We aren't forced to we want to.

  • @RembrandtHa
    @RembrandtHa ปีที่แล้ว +1

    1st

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dominance lol

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hahaha can you see

  • @derekbentley334
    @derekbentley334 ปีที่แล้ว

    Over or in a barrel haha I walk

  • @sasaradetic2202
    @sasaradetic2202 ปีที่แล้ว

    How about let internet stay, what initial intention was? Free.
    And politicians stop drawing conclusions and decisions based on internet opinions. Simply because it is media that has people on it from 2 year old upwards.
    Just a suggestion, i know capitalism can`t do something so simple. Let people have something for free.

  • @carmenlajoie2719
    @carmenlajoie2719 ปีที่แล้ว

    We have been following Confucius in 🇨🇳, really interesting. CGTN The Point-Hub-Heat. IEarlgrey with Eva Bartlett, RT, Telasur. The Duran