That's a pity, I have owned my Dynatech Ogre XT MTB since 1994 (paid £999) and done many mile of loaded touring, commuting and off road stuff without any frame problem and is still my favourite bike to ride. It is well known that If you heat the frame too much the bonding will likely fail, same as if you heat a brazed frame too much that will come apart as well, just the bonding will fail at a lower temperature. To the best of my knowledge the adhesive used to bond the tubes together when manufactured by Raleigh was 3M Scotch Weld 7823 and it is difficult to find any information about this product these days so assume it is not available any longer. Maybe make it into a garden ornament, 😀
What caused the failure was the heat applied to the frame. There is no doubt. Anyone that knows adhesives, knows that the way to disassemble anything glued together whether be Aerospace adhesive or mucilage, Is heat and/or moisture. There are many different levels and qualities of adhesives. Per this video lesson, dont stove your Dyna frame. That is the only lesson here. Another clue to this issue is that so many joints failed simultaneously and so cleanly. I may add that there is also a reason that bonded frames aren't offered in sizes for very large people. These materials have a tighter range of stress limit. It is important not to disparage these frames as there are many across the world that people are still enjoying. Whether it is a Dyna, Technium, Trek, Alan, Radac, Specialized, Look, Vitus or any of many other bonded frames, we hear of very few failures till this day. Most that have failed in some way can be attributed to excess weight and the stress from it. This is one mistake, one failure. Reason noted. Don't heat your bonded bicycle frame.
It is such a shame but so important that you share this information Andy. If it was an air crash investigation they would all be recalled and warnings put out there on all platforms that sell them.
I’m very very happy you are fine and it wasn’t worse, but since it did already happen I’m happy you caught it on camera because it’s just such a “unicorn” situation where everyone had an idea but no evidence of this happening!
These frames had a reputation for failure in the 90’s. I had one in around 92/93 . It was a tad garish iirc but thankfully remained intact, my pals failed at the downtube/bb joint & another club mates frame went at the top tube/head tube joint. Tbh even as a die hard retro Raleigh fan I’d swerve a dynatech & bag myself a conventionally constructed frame.
I have a Bianchi SLX frame that had been severely bent after a collision with a vehicle, it’s currently a bare frame hung above my work bench. I love wall art that has a story. I think you should keep it.
Looks a bit more than loose! 😲 I'd suggest doing a @MonkeyShred and turning the remains of the frame or lugs into a fancy lamp for the workshop or living room.
used to sell the dyna-tech & M-Trax ranges when i was younger, something has been used to damage the bonding agent and the seat tube into the B/B has also been damaged. these were built using the same type of bonding agents as was used in aircraft production and had a rubberized backup to hold should the glue fail
Hi mate , i had 1992 odyssey and always regretted selling it and finally purchased a dyna tech mission, i want to respray it and im concerned about the heat or even without the heat , daft question can the lugs be welded where the tube enters the lug Regards Rob
@@dstroud666 I had no idea they used adhesive, I rode an older 27x1 1/4 wheeled Raleigh road bike in the winter and a couple areas had begun to separate, I just assumed it was faulty welds/brazes but frame being bonded with adhesive makes much more sense.
I have a vintage bicycle Shop in Switzerland and I have got a few Alan and other bonded Frames but they only have a decoration purpose. I never sell them as I cant Garant that they wont break or come apart.
I had two, they both failed in short periods of time but the down tube cracked around the hole where the gear changer fits not the lugs coming lose. Overall though dangerous.
This is only my personal opinion. I’ve not heard of other brands failing like this. Apparently even when new, Raleigh had a problem with them failing. My personal opinion is maybe different resin or the process was different in some way 🤔
Vitus 979 frames were bonded using a proprietary epoxy bonding agent. The Raleigh Technium was “glued” but more than that I couldn’t learn. One suggestion was that the frame size matters and this makes a lot of sense. Longer frame tubes exert greater torque moments on the gluing medium and lug-tube joint (torque = force x length, where length is the distance from the fulcrum point to the point where the force is exerted). This effect is no doubt cumulative. So I suggest, empirically, frequent inspections of the frame and tube/ lug joints. In this case the repeated torquing around the bottom bracket caused it to crack at the down tube joint as, I would imagine, the bonding material and the joint strength failed causing increased loads on the bottom bracket shell as the down tube was able to move in wider arcs with successive pedaling cycles. Given the variable and length of time since construction, the unknown rate of bonding medium deterioration over time, and the repeated stress cycles I would assume, out of an abundance of caution, these frames will eventually fail and suddenly at an unpredictable rate and more likely sooner for larger frames.
@@BikeItUK I imagine it would be a 2k finish that doesn't need high bake temp, the stove enamel was more popular with steel and needed a much higher temp to bake, not particularly good for carbon on bonded.. the frame might have just naturally failed after many years of use..shame still..😩
Probably although many thousands of the Raleigh Dyna-techs failed shortly after sale. I’ve so far never had a problem with other bonded manufacturers. Thanks for watching
@@BikeItUK to my knowledge there are two distinct types of failures for this frame either the lug fatigue(mechanical fracture) or bond failure. I had an FS900 Dynatech frame set that was all titanium, welded. I never had a problem with it but I have read elsewhere that it suffered from failures as well (I wish I still had that frame 😭)
get some epoxy on there, it will be ok, use aircraft glue, trusr me, ive done 3, i worked in bae systems bristol, nothing wrong with that, just a quick fix! bung it in the oven...
That's a pity, I have owned my Dynatech Ogre XT MTB since 1994 (paid £999) and done many mile of loaded touring, commuting and off road stuff without any frame problem and is still my favourite bike to ride.
It is well known that If you heat the frame too much the bonding will likely fail, same as if you heat a brazed frame too much that will come apart as well, just the bonding will fail at a lower temperature.
To the best of my knowledge the adhesive used to bond the tubes together when manufactured by Raleigh was 3M Scotch Weld 7823 and it is difficult to find any information about this product these days so assume it is not available any longer. Maybe make it into a garden ornament, 😀
Thanks for your knowledge and sharing your personal experiences. All the best
What caused the failure was the heat applied to the frame. There is no doubt. Anyone that knows adhesives, knows that the way to disassemble anything glued together whether be Aerospace adhesive or mucilage, Is heat and/or moisture. There are many different levels and qualities of adhesives. Per this video lesson, dont stove your Dyna frame. That is the only lesson here.
Another clue to this issue is that so many joints failed simultaneously and so cleanly. I may add that there is also a reason that bonded frames aren't offered in sizes for very large people. These materials have a tighter range of stress limit.
It is important not to disparage these frames as there are many across the world that people are still enjoying. Whether it is a Dyna, Technium, Trek, Alan, Radac, Specialized, Look, Vitus or any of many other bonded frames, we hear of very few failures till this day. Most that have failed in some way can be attributed to excess weight and the stress from it.
This is one mistake, one failure. Reason noted. Don't heat your bonded bicycle frame.
Thanks for watching and your knowledge it’s appreciated. Happy peddling all the bedt
It needs to become wall art for a long term reminder of that failure and what caused it. Cheers!
Hmm 🤔 definitely thanks buddy
It is such a shame but so important that you share this information Andy. If it was an air crash investigation they would all be recalled and warnings put out there on all platforms that sell them.
Yes, your right! True was you say about an aircraft 🤔 thanks for the support buddy
Hello there Andy.... happy to see you back....thank you for the update
Best regards always.....Rudy
Your very welcome thanks for the continued support much appreciated
I’m very very happy you are fine and it wasn’t worse, but since it did already happen I’m happy you caught it on camera because it’s just such a “unicorn” situation where everyone had an idea but no evidence of this happening!
Technology can be an amazing thing. To be able to share in a positive way is a wonderful thing. Happy peddling 👍
But as well art, can't be beat! Man, felt that one..huge fan of the Techniums😂
Thanks for the support much appreciated
These frames had a reputation for failure in the 90’s. I had one in around 92/93 . It was a tad garish iirc but thankfully remained intact, my pals failed at the downtube/bb joint & another club mates frame went at the top tube/head tube joint. Tbh even as a die hard retro Raleigh fan I’d swerve a dynatech & bag myself a conventionally constructed frame.
Definitely thanks for sharing your personal experiences
I have a Bianchi SLX frame that had been severely bent after a collision with a vehicle, it’s currently a bare frame hung above my work bench. I love wall art that has a story. I think you should keep it.
Thanks, I’m thinking 🤔 maybe leave it disconnected framed
Looks a bit more than loose! 😲 I'd suggest doing a @MonkeyShred and turning the remains of the frame or lugs into a fancy lamp for the workshop or living room.
I’ll have to check them out, thanks for the suggestion 👍
used to sell the dyna-tech & M-Trax ranges when i was younger, something has been used to damage the bonding agent and the seat tube into the B/B has also been damaged.
these were built using the same type of bonding agents as was used in aircraft production and had a rubberized backup to hold should the glue fail
Thanks for your knowledge much appreciated 👍
Good to hear your ok, speak next week pal
😉👍
Hopefully you can restore the connections and crack on with that beautiful bike
The fact that more lugs are becoming loose my confidence with it has gone
Hi mate , i had 1992 odyssey and always regretted selling it and finally purchased a dyna tech mission, i want to respray it and im concerned about the heat or even without the heat , daft question can the lugs be welded where the tube enters the lug
Regards Rob
Hi Rob, I’m honest not sure. I’m presuming they can
I have a Dyna Tech bike that I'm eager to restore. I will need some decals - where can I get those and other parts?
Mark from MRCreations painted all the details no decals used on this one
As you mention this frame is most likely damaged by heating the frame to harden the respray paint work.
How much heat is necessary to bake on the paint? Surely not enough heat to melt the braze/welds
Who knows, the Raleigh bonded lugs even from brand new had this problem. Maybe they used a different resin
Possibly yes
@@tajaipaul891 it’s bonded (glued) so heat can have a massive impact on strength (as could any solvents used)
@@dstroud666 I had no idea they used adhesive, I rode an older 27x1 1/4 wheeled Raleigh road bike in the winter and a couple areas had begun to separate, I just assumed it was faulty welds/brazes but frame being bonded with adhesive makes much more sense.
I have a vintage bicycle Shop in Switzerland and I have got a few Alan and other bonded Frames but they only have a decoration purpose. I never sell them as I cant Garant that they wont break or come apart.
True, so far it’s just the Raleigh brand 👍
I had two, they both failed in short periods of time but the down tube cracked around the hole where the gear changer fits not the lugs coming lose. Overall though dangerous.
Thanks for sharing your personal experiences 👍 much appreciated
Andy, In your opinion does this warning also apply to the anodized Vitus 979 frames as well? How often does a similar thing happen with them?
This is only my personal opinion. I’ve not heard of other brands failing like this. Apparently even when new, Raleigh had a problem with them failing. My personal opinion is maybe different resin or the process was different in some way 🤔
Vitus 979 frames were bonded using a proprietary epoxy bonding agent. The Raleigh Technium was “glued” but more than that I couldn’t learn. One suggestion was that the frame size matters and this makes a lot of sense. Longer frame tubes exert greater torque moments on the gluing medium and lug-tube joint
(torque = force x length, where length is the distance from the fulcrum point to the point where the force is exerted). This effect is no doubt cumulative. So I suggest, empirically, frequent inspections of the frame and tube/ lug joints. In this case the repeated torquing around the bottom bracket caused it to crack at the down tube joint as, I would imagine, the bonding material and the joint strength failed causing increased loads on the bottom bracket shell as the down tube was able to move in wider arcs with successive pedaling cycles. Given the variable and length of time since construction, the unknown rate of bonding medium deterioration over time, and the repeated stress cycles I would assume, out of an abundance of caution, these frames will eventually fail and suddenly at an unpredictable rate and more likely sooner for larger frames.
Was it stoved enamel painted?
Not to sure Mark from MRCreations did the paint work 👍
@@BikeItUK I imagine it would be a 2k finish that doesn't need high bake temp, the stove enamel was more popular with steel and needed a much higher temp to bake, not particularly good for carbon on bonded.. the frame might have just naturally failed after many years of use..shame still..😩
Like the old magnesium alloy racing car wheels of the 60s / 70s... they became fragile with age and dangerous.
Seems that way 👍
Sadly putting a heat cycle through the frame via a curing oven, has definitely brought an end to this frame😭
Probably although many thousands of the Raleigh Dyna-techs failed shortly after sale. I’ve so far never had a problem with other bonded manufacturers. Thanks for watching
@@BikeItUK to my knowledge there are two distinct types of failures for this frame either the lug fatigue(mechanical fracture) or bond failure.
I had an FS900 Dynatech frame set that was all titanium, welded. I never had a problem with it but I have read elsewhere that it suffered from failures as well (I wish I still had that frame 😭)
get some epoxy on there, it will be ok, use aircraft glue, trusr me, ive done 3, i worked in bae systems bristol, nothing wrong with that, just a quick fix! bung it in the oven...