LC300 vs LC200 - towing, payload, accessories analysis and explanation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- #lc300 #lc300towing #payload
I now have all the technical details required to do a specification analysis of the LC300 vs LC200 for towing and payload and it's all explained in this video, plus some information on LC300 factory accessories.
Post questions as comments!
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So as soon as you put on a bullbar, some AT tyres, driving lights, roof rack, fridge and drawers in the back, transmission cooler, to get to a pretty "normal" outback touring rig, you will be able to hook up the 3500kg van and carry the driver, but now you've run out of GVM so the wife and kids will have to jump in the second car. Probably better to get a more modest caravan at 2500kg so the whole family can come along :) This is not new for the 300, though, would apply to all tow vehicles that claim 3500kg.
Agreed!!!
You didn’t mention the ball weight of the caravan which could be over 200kg
@@rattenfanger1502 350kg is included in my numbers for a 3500kg van, but not specifically mentioned. I did not specifically mention the weight of the 100kg fat boy driver either. Dropping the van to 2500kg still only gets you 100kg extra load, just enough to let his wife on board, but still no kids or food/water.
Key summary here for everyone - Toyota at best has made a 'slight' improvement over the LC200 after 10-15 years of research....
Yep!
Having the flexibility of additional gears is a big step forward in terms of driveability. At this price point, the only other choice of a large SUV wagon for towing around Australia and also a suitable daily driver for the shopping centers and CBD is still the Cruiser or the Patrol. Not a lot of other choices, at least for me, as the Euro wagons like X7, GLS, Q7 are non starters for the outback travels that I do too.
Other people's views obviously will be different. :)
@@tempestv8 Clutching at straws there buddy. The only thing a 'lack of competition' ensures is sustained high prices with minimal innovation. Sadly you are absolutely right regarding 'put up or shut up' as there is nothing else to even consider in 2022 other than used LC200.
@@__lancaster I tow reasonably regularly so I know from my personal experience with my own vehicle that the ratio differences between the first five gears on my vehicle are too wide to find a happy rev point. Studying the torque curve of the new engine and the ratios that are available with the new gearbox compared to the AB60F on the 200 Series shows that there are more ratios to play with in the peak torque rev range on the 300 Series. I am sure this will be of great benefit once I upgrade to a 300 Series and tow with it. Not sure how this is clutching at straws, its just mechanical science.
@@tempestv8 It's clutching at straws to claim it's 'innovation'...
Nice work as usual. The 100/200/300 series wagons have been woefully inadequate when it comes to nominal payload despite being good powerful stable tow vehicles.
I crunched the numbers for a 2021 5-seater LC78 GXL Troopcarrier for comparison with the LC300 GXL and the LC78 is way ahead on paper - it has 305kg greater nominal payload with identical tow weight limits and carries 70L more fuel. Opportunity missed with the 300 to up the GVM
Thanks, Robert! Hope you get a "real-time" test soon.
Thanks Robert, That means I can carry three more slabs of beer if I upgrade to the 300! Beautiful :D
Just remember to go for a long pee at the weighbridge if you buy any more on the way back.
@@larkhill2119 I carry a dingy and motor on my 200 gx roof but I have a GVM upgrade all good.
So glad to hear this, but I can only afford a 200, but very happy with it all the same.
Another great report,thanks Robert.GVM upgrade sorts it for those that tow the big weights,or carry big loads,pretty easy to sort,if needed.Unlike some other brands that have gone to monocoque design....I think i will be keeping our 200 for a while.
My LC200 GVM is 3800kg, using Lovells upgrade, my towing upgrade from Lovells is up to 4000kg, total GVM is 7800kg. I have a van that the ATM is 3950kg with rated chassis 4500kg. Now the why would I buy a 300LC being limited again. It is a conundrum.
Another great video, thanks Robert.
All that extra price increase for very little gain, gxl 5 years ago under 80 now over 100k, no one has yet broad cast fuel usage with all the reviews done to date,
Great video Rob, love the analysis. Are you to do one on the (Poor Man's Toyota) Patrol?
No plans :-(
Being a 200 Series owner, the extra power of the new gearbox-engine combo together with slightly higher payload is appealing, but I would like some anecdotal information re towing range. Could the reduced fuel capacity be offset by gearbox-engine improved efficiencies? Would be keen to see actual user experiences once these vehicles get delivered into the hands of the caravan towing fraternity. :)
So the 300, with extra fuel to make up the shortfall is much the same as the 200 in terms of payload?
Yes...good point 👍
Nice comparison
Thanks i want more about comfort driving
Thank you for another informative video
Thanks please share!
Great video very informative now it's been over 12 months and more is know about the 300 an update on your opinion would be good
Thanks. Not really changed, but guess what...the V6 has proved up to the jon!
Would love to see a 300 series vs 200 series landcruiser towing test to see if the v6 better on fuel when there towing 3.5T
I found that the specs sheet says one thing than the actual car. If you read the fine print it states the weights will vary depending on factory accessories fitted. In theory a SAHARA model has a payload of 650kg, but I have a photo of the compliance plate that states the payload of ony 500kg! And this car is just a SAHARA model without any bolt on accessories! So that's not a nice find if you are planning on towing. Also when it comes to legalities, I'd hate for the authorities or insurance company to reject the claim that it can tow 3500 ATM when the plate clearly states the GCM - max GVM = 3470 max caravan ATM.
Yes unladen (kerb/tare) weight will vary. However, just because GVM + 3500 doesn't equal GCM doesn't mean the car can't tow 3500kg.
More here -> l2sfbc.com/towing-weights-calculator/
@@L2SFBC that’s correct, Cars are normally over engineered compared to their specifications however insurance companies and department of transportation takes these specification plates as gospels. I would hate to be fined for having a car not comply according to the plates or worse insurance company declining a claim because they deemed you are overloaded. Obviously they have to prove you are overweight but first thing that they would look at are your compliance plates on both car and caravan. Am I wrong to assume this?
No they do look at the plates.
what model lc 300 are we talking about standard 5 seat models or base weight or 7 seat model base weight
base weight typically is 2500 kg anything betweem 2500-3000 is typically 7 seat with upgrade in suspension to carry heavier people losds
to tow 4 ton you are going to exceeding 2.5-3.5 ton to tow safely with close to 500kg tongue weight of 4ton 245 foot caravan you are about to tow, the more weight you add to combat 6.5+ gcm the more it will cost you when you start skirting 8 ton gcm you are likely going to be needing license upgrade to be applicable to gcm weight
Note: the troopy as we know in australia is a 11 seat passenger vehicle not to be compared with with the 4-6 door variant comparable to the 60, 80, 100 and 200 series..
If you happen to luck out to dual power train models you are all but running in fwd on the highways and freeways of Australia
If you want to tow with a troop carrier you arer likely lengthening its chassis and doing a 6x6 sock off the the showroom floor you may have a 1.64 ton pay load base on 6'1 an d a bare min 136kg adult
even at 150-250kg ball weght you might over weight
because at 2.5 ton plus 1.64 ton you gross 4.14 ton without hauling anything
Really after all these years making 4x4 vehicles toyota now make a snorkel that's not water proof that's shit like the air box on the 200 series that leaks in dust not really an air box tho , I'm hanging onto my 80 series last off the best I suppose Australia is already built toyota don't need to build a real tuff 4x4 any more
Am I thinking of this right? Your Max tow at GVM calculation is a hypothetical assuming Zero tow ball download? If the vehicle is at GVM without the trailer attached then you can tow 3,470kg provided no mass on the towball. If the vehicle is 350kg below GVM without the trailer attached then you can tow the full 3,500 with up to 10% on the towball. In practice it is impossible to hit GCM without exceeding GVM.
The GVM cannot be exceeded and the TBM is counted towards the GVM limit. I accounted for that in the calculations. There are several limits at play here and the tow limit is the first once reached; this could be GCM, max tow, or GVM. Yes in theory you cannot exceed GCM without exceeding GVM..but in the real world you'd have occupants, acessories, load so in that situation you may well hit GVM first.
@@L2SFBC thanks for the reply, really love your channel.
thank Robert for the video
keep my Isuzu 300/75 4x4 still better tow
Toyota's 200 spec sheet states 200kg roof rating when l last looked
Y62 patrol still a better option.
200 , 300 ? , gee wiz I'm sticking with my 80 series no computers and crap on it more safer and reliable out bush
Hello. Thanks for great information
LC200 & LC300 are they different on rear chassis structure?
The question is can I put LC200 Old (Brink tow bar ) to LC300 ???
Much appreciated
I doubt it but don't know for sure sorry
Who specifies these weights (?) - especially GVM and payload? Is this Toyota and how that applies to warranty? I ask that both in relation to the payload and the roof weight capacity. Agree that in both cases its seems very disappointing especially compared to Land Rover Discovery (current car) from 2015 and the new Defender. Chill on the comments about reliability comments .. lets not get side tracked but find both figures genuinely disappointing from an engineering perspective unless I have misunderstood the process that derives these figures. PS I am looking at a 300 so this isnt a Toyota vs Landrover based question :)
Engineers specify them in conjunction with marketing people and lawyers. Engineers say what's possible, lawyers build in a safety margin, marketing people take the margin out to make the numbers look better!
Asked Toyota dealer if the published vehicle GVM includes all passengers,fuel and accessories and they stated no, I have since been advised that it indeed includes those items, is that correct?
Wrong. GVM is the maximum the vehicle can weigh. Fuel pax etc are not relevant.
Any updates on GVM upgrades timelines
Not yey
@@L2SFBC HI Robert, still no update on timing ?
I have to question some of the numbers here. My 2014 GXL (No KDS) has a kerb weight of 2620kg (actual Wt as per Toyota Spec's, weigh bridge & Lic Papers) & NOT 2740kg as shown here. Also, the kerb weights of GXL, VX & Sahara in 200 series IS NOT the same for all. This means the LC300 GXL is only 40kg lighter than a 200 Series GXL. Remember also that 23kg of the LC300 kerb weight reduction is directly due to reduced fuel capacity (138Vs110L) . When assessing GVM, GCM, TBM etc etc, a 2021 LC300 GXL is in fact inferior to a 2014 LC200 GXL AND we have to assume that the LC300 fuel economy is 20% better when towing 3500kg!!! Do we now assume that Toyota is saying that the drivetrain capability & strength of the LC300 is not as good as the LC200?
The fact that the GCM on a LC300 is not the sum of GVM & Max Braked Tow Mass needs further explanation.
The figures are pulled from Toyota's spec sheets on their website as of 5th October, so they're using a consistent method between LC200 and LC300. That's because the exact 'unladen' (kerb/tare) varies, hence the approach above. The official compliance kerb weight is different again.
The LC300 smaller tank; the smaller tank weighs less, but 1L of diesel is around 0.8kg. So I don't know the difference given the factoring in for the lighter tank.
I don't see why the LC300 fuel economy should be assumed to be 20% better when Toyota's own figures aren't close to that?
I'm planning on interviewing a Toyota engineer, so you can ask those questions at that point :-)
@@L2SFBC I should have also stated that my 2014 LC200 IS the 4.5L T/D and NOT a petrol. Fuel wt saving was simply 28litres x 0.82 = 23kg (did not try and calculate tank wt savings) The current LC200 range when towing in real terms is at best just over 500km - which gets marginal here in WA at times. So to get the same range, the LC300 needs to deliver 20% better economy - otherwise we have to carry extra fuel (& weight). I would be questioning Toyota's spec sheets and certainly the kerb weight comparisons. In my 2014 brochure, Toyota clearly states a kerb wt of 2620 for GXL T/D.
That's the 2014 model. My stats were for 2021. Weights will vary over model years.
what is the optimum speed for twoing
When it gets a GVM upgrade be much better
So if you put a long range fuel tank in the LC300 you essentially have the same car? Slightly disappointed
Well, the 300 is a better 200...but fundamentally they will both pull 3500kg more or less the same way.
Does the frontal area of a van affect towing?
Yes it causes drag
@@L2SFBC In the manual of the Jeep Wrangler there is a maximum frontal area. Does that appear in the manual to other tow vehicles?
Not that I have seen interesting
So after all these years since the 200 came out, the 300 is just a whisker better as a tug, and even less so if it were carrying the same amount of fuel.
Disappointing.
Hope these sell like hot cakes so the 200 prices come down again lol
If you started your graph at 500kg rather than zero it would have helped to show the differences 😁