Did Canelo lose 'cause he tried Filipino Fighting?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
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Gunting sounds like a very specific niche of... adult... activity. Like "What are ya into? Docking? Gunting?"
I mean, it does mean scissors so.... 😅
Fucking hell mike...
Yikes 😬
I'm just amused that Mike knows what Docking is! 🤣
If you're 40 and know what docking is, you spend too much time on the internet.
Cool piece. Its interesting to me that people are skeptical about attacking arms in Filipino martial arts, but they accept as gospel the focus in Muay Thai on using the round kick to break down an opponent's base (knee joint, calf, femoral nerve, etc.). Its the same concept. Its just a different limb.
I've been practicing and teaching this stuff for years. A lot of these MMA gym Bros think it's shit until they start to get hit with it. Also punching the arms can be very deceptive. I think Icy Mike talks about it in one of his videos. Don't turn the foot, Hit the arm with a jab, then turn the foot and with the same jab. Boom landing. Ron Balicki is an Icon. Thank you for bringing him into this conversation.
I have a good friend of mine who was a MMA fighter who got into the scrap outside of a bar and used it elbow right inside of a guy's arm and then follow through the rest of his combinations and knocked the guy out. It messed up the guy's arm up before he followed through. I often wondered if it would be effective but after that incident made me more of a believer that it can be pulled off.
I appreciate this video so much because much like wrestling, defanging the snake is found in almost all martial arts and can be used both defensively and offensively. Awesome video guys! Wing chun, Filipino boxing and muay Thai combination for example slashing elbows to the arm, knees to the legs.
100% thanks for watching
This is definitely your best video yet! Love the connection to the recent Canelo fight! In my personal experience guntings are very successful when used at the right time or in the right way, even with gloves on.
Thank you sir 🙏
Thanks for the great tutorial!!
I love that you did this video.
Canelo is using a boxing strategy that has been around for over a hundred years now, if your opponent has an attack that is hard to get around be it a jab or guard that exploits your style, you hit the arm and preferably the corresponding muscles, so say a snappy jab you'd target the forearm to remove the snap, for the power hand the bicep and brachioradialis, and if say they have a good long guard you target the shoulder or inside the arm which is very weak. Course there are other strategies but those are the basic ones. It's not going to do any significant damage to the arm a majority of the time, but it will force them to change their strategy. This video is more of a demonstration of kali, but from what you said and from what I've heard from a lot of people who talk about this fight, they don't know that hitting the arms is just a normal strategy in boxing, especially for in fighters against bigger guys, you're usually not taught this stuff as an amateur though because it doesn't make much difference when rounds are significantly shorter, so it's harder to tire out the arms, arms tend to be very durable, still would recommend to amateurs though.
Thanks for the insight. 100 years ago or so? About when the Americans went to the Philippines and were exposed to their boxing methods. Wonder if there's any corollation.
@@metrolinamartialarts Maybe, but I don't know if Jack Dempsey ever went to the Philippines, but it's certainly older than Dempsey, I just don't know where or who started it, and if Ali can put karate in boxing I'm sure it could happen, Asians have been in America before they had railroads.
@@metrolinamartialarts I just remembered something, my bad. You don't strike the shoulder to weigh down a long guard, you strike the outside of the lead arm shoulder to push them off balance, I forgot this isn't actually to damage the arm because it's more of a push since putting power in a strike to the shoulder can leave you open, so don't try that.
I have an analytical mind. I like to present the break a new technique down, not by moves, but by concepts.
For this I would first ask "what is stronger? Muscle, or Bone?" in the overwhelming number of cases, it's Bone.
Next, "what's stronger? the meat of a muscle? or it's tips and edges?" in all but a few cases it would be the tips and edges, connective tissue.
next, "what're stronger? Big bones? or little bones?" obviously, bigger bones are generally stronger.
Then coalesce them into a strategic concept: "If i use stronger bones to attack weaker ones as well as connective tissue, I can cause damage that might disable the targeted structure"
next: strategy, "I can use strikes aimed at vulnerable connective tissue that's exposed in dynamic actions of combat to disable my opponents limbs, which are, or wield, their weapons.
next: knowledge "I know this strike presents this target, and I know this can exploit that target dynamically" knowledge of anatomy is a must too...
I used to poo poo Kali limb destruction when apply to unarmed fighting, yea it make sense to defang the snake with a sword or knife but why bother doing that when attackig the head and body still create way better results and higher percentage.
But after i read about W.E.Fairbairn recently, his unarmed attack focused alot on knife hand chop to the forearm and bicep area to set up the strike to the throat. Tried it out a few time, it freaking hurts and my arm went limp after 5 chops in the way Fairbairn described. Granted, it's not Kali but it's still limb destruction. If this was someone else, i would poo poo it right away but since it's Fairbairn, i have to give it a shot. Also gunting the calf when you're in the opponent half guard or butterfly guard seems like a nice idea, have to try it next week.
Anything works without pressure. I’d like to see you or Ron spar someone (each other) while trying these techniques. It’s be interesting to see it work.
* I do believe there may be a place for repeatedly hitting small muscle groups with force. I.E calf kicks, bicep hits. I really liked that concept Ron demonstrated while grappling.
I actually spar it and use it in the 3rd round of my "Instructor spars a student" video
Probably works great with a stick, I'd guess not quite as much barehanded.
It Works ok barehanded; way better than in gloves
@@metrolinamartialarts Oh yeah, that makes sense
This tactic is a very common tactic in muay thai. Roundhouses are used break down forearms and arms of opponent.
It's kinda the same with the Okinawan/kyokushin karate blocks that snap the wrists so you can't punch
That's why you train with kali alongside Filipino boxing (suntukan, dirty boxing empty hands) or any striking arts but Filipino boxing is the best in close range or inside fist fight., Once gunting created an opening you should follow up with inside attack quick.
Rocky Marciano used to punch some of his opponents arms. He definitely had success with it
Just try lightly punching yourself on the inside of your arm in that space right between the bicep and tricep and feel how painful that can be, a solid hit there can make your whole arm go numb. Probably much better/easier to hit that particular spot in MMA with small gloves and more clinching/grappling though.
@@Tan12 Yeah but can you hit that exact point in a fight where both you and the guy you're trying to hit are moving, and you're trying to get that spot in the time it takes for his arm to retract?
I think you hit it correctly, the gloves took to much off of the techniques to make it viable
Very cool!
I recall a Roy Jones Jr. fight where he had intentionally and effectively targeted one of his opponent's arms, repeatedly. He mentioned that it was a conscious tactic.
In one of my fights as a young man my opponent caught me with a devastating shin kick to my shoulder. I instantly loss use of my left arm, slumping to my side. My opponent seemed as surprised as I was and acted rashly. I was fortunate to catch him with a right hook that ended the fight. I was a crying baby for the next 4 months. Lol!
Thank you for sharing the knowledge.
The way I learned guntings was that they are used to deflect with force and make a clearing. I never was given the rationale of limb destruction...we cleared the arm out of the way and kept on hammering..
Ron Baliki je l'adore c'est quelqu'un très gentil ❤💯
🤜💥🤛
I think the leg usage is the best usage, probably best to Incorporate it into grappling.
I tend to agree
Poor Ed. He got limbless for us to have this vid
I'm still scarred.
I believe Thai boxing also attacks the limbs. Excellent video!
Yup! They normally use their shins as the weapons
10:34 I don't know to which fight he is referring from Jake Lamotta... If he is talking about a fight against Sugar Ray Robinson as shown in the clip, then that information is wrong. Jake Lamotta fought Sugar Ray Robinson 6 times, he lost all of them but the 5th, which was won via split decision. There was no 5th round victory. If you know to which fight he is referring to please let me know
My sensei called this tactic "attacking the weapon" but, as you note, this is not something that i'd recommend for Sports. It's really intended to break carpels and the like with elbows and timed blows to joints to try to hyper-extend them into injury...
Also known as defanging the snake
@@metrolinamartialarts lol yes yes!
There was ana awesome of example of this recently in Wonderboy's fight with Kevin Holland. Literally won by destroying Kevin's hand (yes Kevin probably broke it punching wonderboy) but then Wonderboy targeted it to end the fight.
Yup! It was awesome
I believe it is the same as low kick. there are several people in mma who is success at using it, for example dustin poirier. he kicks his opponent on the same leg over and over throughout the fight until that leg becomes too heavy to be lifted. he is success, but many other low kick user are having losing streak in ufc. they are winning outside of ufc though
Great example!!
It seems like every time someone brings up Guntings, pressure points are not far behind.
Very true lol
@@metrolinamartialarts Even Ron seems sort of "ehhh it should work hypothetically" I don't know if I'd drop my guard to bet on that.
@@j.murphy4884 I play with it at a far range, but not in the pocket lol
That’s kool bro
I’m sharing this to my sensei
@@scottvangasbeck9431 lemme know what he says!
Gunting is either a noun or verb which means scissors or scissoring
No, Canelo couldn't hit Bivol clean, so he tried to punch the arms so that Bivol would let down his guard. In any case, when Canelo loads up and hits the arms some people can't tell the difference if the punch landed clean or not.
Interesting take!
IMHO Guntings do not work with padded gloves on your hand.... ?!
I tend to agree - but maybe there are different variations of it that do
@@metrolinamartialarts btw. i am a believer (in Guntings.... cause i ate a few ;-))...
Carnello: throws sloppy punches with bad aim because he's tired
FMA nerds: superior limb-based fighting
It's like Anderson Silva and wingchun all over again
Lol I mean he did do one class so he's a master
Food For Thought: Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.
I blame his diet for his loss
Oh interesting!
Nah, it's really not the same as saying "Does the jab work?" at all. Like not at all. Seriously, like it's not even a little, teeny, tiny bit like that.
I get that. Maybe the cartwheel kick? Like super specialized and only works for some but when it does work - ho boy.
@@metrolinamartialarts The real issue is there are too many unknown variables regarding your opponent’s physiology. There’s too much variation to make nerve attacks reliable, especially in high stress situations where the adrenaline and endorphins are flowing. So, while the thought of incapacitating an enemy with a well-placed strike, poke, slap, or some kind of “Vulcan” grip is way fun to think about, spending an inordinate amount of time practicing those kinds of techniques may not be the best strategy. Better to do it for fun and not rely on it as a core principle.
I get that, too - but we already know nerve attacks work at the highest level with dead leg from Thai-style kicks to the thighs and calves.
The arm has the same thing, just a much smaller target. Now, would I choose to hit somewhere on the arm vs face - I'd always choose face. But if I'm having trouble hitting the face, then I'm going for it. Especially with my short arms!
Gunting with gloves is hard to make work under the typical MMA round limit rules set. It works better with boxing fight lengths.
I did it to someone in boxing. The guy was better than me. And a counter puncher. I had better conditioning.
Round 1 and 2, I spent realizing he was better. Round 3 through 6, I spent punching his arms. By the end of Round 6, I could see he was struggling. Start of round 7, he comes out, tries to lift his arms and can't. And quits.
I was pretty angry at that.
Totally bare knuckles, it works a lot faster and differently.
Classic judo ground game, people use knuckle grinds into the ribs a lot. Try doing that with any MMA or boxing glove on.
So rule set determines optimal technique.
When I was doing one rope bridge river crossing for time in the US Army, times were getting too fast. So they kept adding complications and extra steps that had nothing to do with the best way to make a one rope bridge and more to keep things interesting for spectators.
Another great video!
Thanks for watching!
Kali may do this but this has been part of kickboxing and MMA forever and what they do has nothing to do with Kali and Kali deserves zero credit for it. It just happens to be something they have in common but those in combat sports do it with much more precision and with more effect. So Canelo didn't try filipino fighting he just did what many many many fighters do.
I'm not entirely sure that "forever" argument works on sports that aren't that old. 🤔
@@metrolinamartialarts That is the response you decided on lol. Funny. Doesn't change the fact that Filipino martial arts are not used in Boxing/Kickboxing/MMA at all. Can it work? Possibly but it is likely because they learned in their martial arts system or at their gym and not in Filipino martial arts. To try to tie the two together is disingenuous and misleading. It's like saying oh the way he steps to the angle is from Escrima when all combat sports work to get an angle. So the answer to the question on your video no he did not lose cause he tried Filipino Fighting because he didn't use Filipino Fighting.
@@CH-qw6yy feel better after typing all that when I already said it in the video? Lol
@@metrolinamartialarts Dang. You're sharp. You got me again.
@@metrolinamartialarts When I started at my current school and I started teaching my MMA instructor Kali. It opened up a whole new level of angular attack scenarios. He teaches kali footwork to all his MMA gym bros now. (They probably talk the same shit about Kali not being effective, but won't step foot inside my class and spar with me. Don't want to hurt their precious ego.) As a long time practitioner of MT Kickboxing under Ajarn Chai. As well as western boxing. I didn't switch stances. Switch kicks, yes. Switch stances, NOPE. Also MT and western boxing never taught me anything about attacking limbs. So Ed is 100% on this.