DIY Spindle Square "Reloaded"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2015
- Reloaded. See what you missed
DIY Spindle square. (Build it Use it)
This is the first video in this series of three videos showing you step by step how to build a Spindle square. The second Video shows how to use it, and the 3rd how to pimp it out :-)
Talk about serendipitous. I just accidentally ordered two dial indicators instead of one and they’ve already shipped. I think I’ll build this. Thanks!
I’m going to use that excuse Someday :-)
I remember when you first released this. Couldn’t help but watch it again 7 years later.
I am so glad I found this channel.
I've been wanting one of these, now I'll make one!
Thanks for the video and inspiration.
Dale, this was a great video. I've gained a new level of respect for your work- in that you really kept practicality at the forefront of this project. It's silly how picky hobby machinists can be about useless details. Anyone who has ever trammed a head knows you've accomplished exactly what you needed to. Big thumbs up from me!
Hi, I agree with Ras, never use a file without a handle especially with the amount of energy the chuck can give it to jam the tang into your wrist. This advise does not come from trolls but engineers/machinists who have survived whole. Regards.
Thank you. I always wanted to make one, but thought that it needed to be very precise. It's with a great interest the I look at you work this down in such a simple way.
Really appreciate.
Great video, clear, concise and educational. I'm looking forward to watching part B and C.
I learnt so much in this video. The quality is amazing and to top it your good teacher. Thanks
This will be the first thing I'm going to make: the spindle square! thanks!
Great Video Work by the way!
Thanks Dale - I have been moving in that direction but haven't found much on the Bolton items. Thanks for your time and advice - I'll keep on checking around!
+Doug Jackart :-)
The good news is that I was thinking about building one of these. The bad news is that I missed the 2 week deadline by 9 years.
After tramming my mill a few days ago I was thinking about how to make the shaft exactly perpendicular to the square piece I finally came to two conclusions. After all, this is being made to improve on the accuracy of the tram so the conclusion must be that it's not already an acceptable version of perfect. First, the two pieces don't have to be toolroom square to one another because once the dial indicators are calibrated that takes out any irregularity. Second, if the face of the shaft is cut square on a lathe and threaded for a retaining screw, it will square up when the screw is tightened.
It's important to make sure that all of the gibs are properly adjusted before tramming including the knee gib. If it's loose and the knee clunks occasionally when being lowered, the angle of the knee to the head is changing every time it's raised or lowered.
Great application of practical engineering and design. One of the most important lessons that I needed to learn as a precision mechanical designer was to not over design your project. Go for the simplest solution for any problem (opportunity) and it will usually be the lowest cost to manufacture. Its a beautiful thing.
Hi dale, great videos you inspired me to build one of these ,great project for a beginner like me ,very useful ,and saved a small fortune on the cost,thanks again.
this sounds like a fantastic series. i can't wait to watch more. (love the idea of a bead roller video!) thanks dale your videos have help my machining a lot
Im going to be doing some Bead rolling videos next month
Nice video, going to build one too. I like the cleanliness of your workshop
I've been wanting one of these... $ being the reason I don't have one until now, so thanks for the idea! For assembly I like to freeze the shaft and oven heat the holder, slip it in and it locks down in a very short time. Thanks again
Thanks for taking the time to do these vidios. Great job!
I am only 5 years late to the party, I enjoyed this video and am just getting started learning machining.
I must say that while I find your videos interesting ... what most impresses me is the quality of the footage. I mean you are setting up lighting ... using a discreet microphone ... I am finding it very easy to watch. Thanks :)
GaWajn Thank you:-)
Hi Dale, you love feeding the trolls. the second troll feeding was "no handle on your file" i'm not a safety nazi but i do have a scar on the palm of my right hand from a jeweler's file. everyone has a nerve bundle at the base of the palm. if this is cut your whole hand goes numb. nice build. thanks for sharing.
Nice project and good quality video. I have learned metal working pretty much on my own and there are a lot of blank spots in my knowledge... you filled in a few of them.
Hi Dale...
Enjoyed, great subject, filming and production. IMO, I take this video series as a teaching series so with that said your audience will generally be people learning/enjoying the trade, you did a lot of various teaching discussions during the vid. So rather than ask the "trolles" to comment.....using the file as you did and then explain the negative issues as a teaching tool for the newbies along with a refresher for the trolles.
Just my 2cents..
All the best
Chuck
outsidescrewball Thanks for the the advice.
Dale d
Nice job. Thanks for sharing and keep up your great work!
At first, I figured this would be useless! The worrisome thing for me watching this was the very idea of using an out of tram mill to drill the holes for your mill trammer.
It wasn't until I did a lot of reflection on it that it dawned on me that the holes for the gauges and the central pivot *only need to be true to each other.* It will not matter at all how much wobble the cross bar has when turning in the spindle - the height of each gauge relative to the spindle will not change if the mill is in tram when checked. VERY NICE!
its useless. You cant compensate that wobble. We made a single right hand angled one in shop on a precision machine accurate to 2 tenths and it still wobbled making around the table indications worthless. that 2 tenths was amplified at 12" and getting the bar in straight without a specific protocol is near impossible. This is why companies charge $100 and up for a professional one. It looked awesome when it was finished its too bad it couldnt do the job.
@@ilovehobbies3782 What wobble? Wobble could ONLY come from loosely fitting parts. That's not necessarily the situation when making this on an out of tram mill. I guess "wobble" didn't describe what I meant by the variance due exclusively to holes being other than square. Consider the situation when the milled is already in tram
_____\_____
\ \ Now mentally rotate this so the slants are upright (since they are IN LINE WITH THE SPINDLE). Zero each Gauge. Gauge 1 would read 0.0 while Gauge 2 would read 0.0
Now spin the 180
_____/_____
/ / Now, Gauge 2 would read -.005 while Gauge 1 would read +.005
If it was out of tram, then Gauge 2 would read -.006 while Gauge 1 would read +.004
See how that works?
I hope yall realized he had one in his hand before making the one he built in the video. He looks at his other one while the block is in the vise.
Thanks for the video I’m just getting into milling recently bought a Hartford mill and that’s one thing I need to do is get my head square wish I was able to win the contest but looks to be years late lol thanks for the tips
Great job with the video and the spindle square. Would of liked to see you set up and use a slitting saw, but I'm sure you will in future videos. Nice job
I agree that your long throw press would be a great 'Build it Use it' video :)
Ottimo lavoro
Complimenti
Dale
I know this is an old video, but I have to mention that if you just tram to the vise, you are not sure the head is square to the table. If you ONLY work in the vise, that is fine and probably the best choice, but often I find that I clamp direct to the table for work that will not fit in the vise, and really want the table square for those operations as well as having the vise square.
John
So how do I use an oversized drill bit? Don’t I guess, I had a hard time finding better quality mt 3 drills for my lathe but the mill is r8, what is your answer, r8 good enough or ?
Troll food, wedding band and no file handle
Dale, have been enjoying your videos. I like your style: "...it's good enough for this project...". I don't know where i picked it up, but when i file on the lathe i hold the file underneath the work, and backwards. So if the file caught on the chuck it would go away from you.
I reckon the second is using the file without a handle.
Great video.
I remember my first file, had a handle :-)
Hey Dale, rewatching this video and was wondering any modification you would change or add since it is 2021?
Also have seen you on ARW discussion but not in the shop. Hope your doing okay and be back in to doing some new projects. Miss your videos 👍🏆
Hey Dale,
Very good video editing and a very very useful shop tool! Looking forward to Part's 2 & 3, and be sure sure to add some more troll food, you know that's what keeps them coming back...
Regards,
Ray
Ray Caniglia Thanks for the advice on the troll food. I think the next dish will be served cold and messy. LOL
+Ray Caniglia sup ray .the troll suck he has no handle on his file lol and most my files dont nether and i look at it this way there my hands and ill do what i want with them hehe
+Metal Tips and Tricks (Dale Derry) nice video i made one of these a few years ago for my 1st project they are a nice tool to have and save lots ov time. again thanks
another great show, loved the bandsaw story, .......your a natural teacher...
Rick L Thanks Rick
Dd
I have watched this a couple of times, and I'm wondering if it is critical that my mill is tramed before I drill the three holes. It seems the center rod would have to be at a perfect 90deg.
Even with the hole not at 90 the indicators are zeroed individually thus removing the error in the tooling.
if you tram the head to the vise, and the vise is raised due to chips under it, would the head be crooked to the traveling axis? would that create a situation where an end mill , or drill would not be parallel to the ways?
Exactly. Tramming the vise is all well and good but first your mill head HAS to be square with the table (ways).
Would wearing that ring possibility be troll food? Especially while in close proximity to the chuck while using the file.
Very cool build Dale, 2 Q's,,,, how come you didn't just use thumb screw in the indicators and not slit the side to pinch it together, and how critical was the drilling the main holder hole at a 90deg. angle ? or isn't that that important, this is why we tram mills, going to build this one, Thank you so much 👍👍👍👍
What length did you make the shaft? Thanks Cool project
Why does the band saw blade guide move? Loose elevator set screw?
I use to work machining Aluminum water pumps for GM V6 engines and the company used Varsol it's no more flammable than WD-40 and at that time was bought in 40 gallon drums. Buy Varsol paint thinner brush cleaner. I also use it on magnesium bell housings for FORD trucks.
Wish I would have seen this 7 yrs ago. Going to part B
Is your chuck a integral shank
Can you tell us where you got it
Amazing
"we trust the machine " to make square holes at the bracket ...in order to check the machine for squareness , this sounds counter intuitive . my mill is low end and i really need this check to be as accurate as i can. thank you for your info . if it wasn't for you and some other nice people in youtube i would not been able to learn anything about machining. thanks a lot.
It shouldn't matter if the holes are square, so long as they are all the same. This is the reason that all 3 holes were drilled without moving the part in the vise until all 3 holes were drilled.
Isnt the lube going to transfer to the saw blade pullys
If that Riser Block on your Mill gets any bigger your going to need a Scaffold. lol and yes you are Right about Drill chucks Keyless or Not anything over 1/2 inch I try and use a collet. plus you can put more force on it in Tuff Material I have seen Chucks Pop out of Tapers that hold it to the R8 adaptor from using drills that are too Big
The accuracy of the spindle square is dependent on the squareness of the mill spindle in the first place. How did you square the mill before building the tool to sqaure the mill?
Your mill doesn't have to be square. The only thing that matters is the three holes you drill are parallel to each other.
I use 2 pipe wrenches to unjam my keyless chuck when using huge drill bite lol works great
Thanks i am making one
Good "real world approach". The shop is coming along nicely. Guess I am not the first to see no handle on the file.
Larry Perna Thanks for watching. Some people didn't notice the handle.
is there any way you can go into more detail of the ins and out of your enco mill I have one at work and would love to understand it better
+Trustin Ellis I have plans to do, but im not sure when ill get around to shooting it.
Thanks for replying.. so I have a conundrum I need to tap a three-quarter pipe threads and half inch by 2 inch 6061 aluminum flat
strap any ideas how to do that with the mill I know it's possible because we are having it Outsource.I would like to do it my self.
I like how you poke the trolls.
Me too
you definitely have some of the most enjoyable videos to watch. Good video good sound and some pretty good advice at times. Thanks for your time and effort.
Good for you
Dale - what happened to the original, why the reload?
BasementShopGuy Some of the files were missing
G'Day , Very excellent , i just got a mill tonight , i really enjoy making , if its not for my motorcycle it for my lathe or drill press , and now hopefully for my mill , Looking forward to number 2 ...Or should i say B.
+Johnny Mees no number 2 can't you tell
09Jan2016 Enjoyed this video Dale and your presentation. I'm a newbie to most of the mill info but like it. In fact as I surf Utube, your videos are the ones popping up! No lathe or mill in my shop yet but would appreciate your feedback on lathe/mill combos - in particular Bolton Tools model BT- 500. Thanks and will be tuning in moRe!
+Doug Jackart
I think combo machine are good start, but they do have their limitation. I think you should try to fine a form online and see how other people like theirs.
This is why God gave us DRO......Great video, but DRO makes it SO much easier....And way less chance of error.
Try Paraffin wax as a lubricant for your bandsaw blade, instant difference in cutting speed and little to no mess.Just touch a block of it to the sides of your blade every 10 seconds or so.
***** I also use a block of beeswax.
Been using a bar of soap. Where I live anything remotely related to anything has to be shipped or gotta go to the city. The soap I can get at dollar General. Which is the only thing in 30 miles.
What brand is the band saw?
+John McKenna
14" Delta
Pretty good, not a machinist yet.....just a hint, on your mill spindle 12 1/2 turn, no need to adjust dial for your estimated play in nut, this is not accurate, crank anti clock past 12 1/2 turns, then clock turn to 0 or .100". You might need to brush up on lathe turning tooling with sharpening, turned shaft shouldn't need filing.
That anchor lube made a mess, use WD 40 also if anything.
+Konely King
thanks of rah info
How did you determine that your mill was off by 0.013"?
BandAid hello. I just run my table a few cranks of the handle to take up lost motion, set the dial to zero, lightly back off until you feel the screw engage and read the dial. for higher accuracy, mount an indicator to see exactly when the table starts moving. also be aware this number may be differant along the entire length of the screw due to slightly more wear in the area that has seen the most action over the years. sometimes this is negligible, but to be safe, I make the measurement in the middle, where my vise sits.
TY
When I cut Thick Steel or Aluminum on the Do All Band saw at work I use a Light spray of WD 40 been doing it for years with no problem you also need a small air jet pointing at your Blade to blow out the Chips from the Teeth cuts like Butter
Hi, I like the idea of the air blowing on the blade. every once in a while I use wd 400 too>
Hi I'd like to have it I need one for high school the lathe there is definitely not square
I just subscribed to your channel :)
Pople BackyardFarm Thanks
Dd
Thanks for an interesting video!You, and several other skilled mechanics, use WD40. Yesterday I saw WD40 in a shop, bought it and used it. Yes, shure it works well.Reading the label on the bottle made me afraid. "Use good ventilation, avoid skin contact. Might cause deasiness and skin trouble…..". Does it contain both drugs and poison? I am surpriced that WD40 is allowed to be sold.For cutting aluminium I since long was told to use, Red or White Spirit which is a lot less hasardeous.I used the WD40 for cutting steel and it works well. However a paste, Allo Cutting Paste, sold by Allo Naturprodukter AB in Sweden, worked well too, and it is told to be biologicaly degradable. It easily removed afterwards. WD40 calls for dropping all the equipment in carosine….What do You Think Dave?Regards,Stefan
Yup--Saw both of the troll issues. So why DON'T you use a handle? Do you know something the trolls don't? Great video BTW.
Rick Rose I don't have handles on my files because I don't have any handles. I usually by them used and they never seem to have handles. :-(
***** It's easy to make handles, you have a lathe. I've made some nice ones from osage orange that someone gave me.
I noticed on one of Randy Richards' videos that he had files with golf balls attached as handles. Interesting idea. Cheap and easy.
Rick Rose I pick up cheap screw drivers. Get them for free at Harbor freight or a hand full at a flea market for a buck. I heat the screw driver blade with a torch to remove it. Then depending on the size of the file I will heat the handle tip to melt it in or use epoxy to glue it in. Works great and is cheap.
38:26 sorry you did the press over an opening... This bridging can cause a bowing in your tooling... Meaning no longer in equilibrium.
Hi
Would you please get a file handle. You are such a neat guy I would not like you to sustain a serious injury. Hope you dont think I am nattering. You shows are great.
Ian in Victoria B.C.
Hi Ian. Sorry about the file handle.
I thought he was a good machinist until I notice vice grip handle on the on/off switch on the vertical mill.
I would enter but I want to make my own, thanks
Thats ok. Its a fun project to make. :-)
The proper name is telescope gage. A snap gage is u shape and usually 2 anvils, commonly used as a go no go gage.
Never use a file without a handle! If you're too cheap, just drill a little hole in a golf ball and hamer it on.
Square cuts save much material. Speed/heat is more important than lube,
Hi, I bellive that your sistem isn't correct, and the reason it's the possible error in the pliers, (also the pliers can be imperfect). In presence of pliers error you will compensate this error but you will be out of square, correct? The only system to be real in square it's a magneto direct on the bottom side off spindle machine whitout any component in the middle and make a clock on the table. You will be absolutely sure to be in square.Regards
You should have saved the chair lift and body lift you may need them some day
🤪
the second is no handle, or it could also be the cross slide is too close to the chuck, if the file bites it could feed your right hand rapidly into the cutter on the tool post!!, also PLEASE do the jobs at true speed, doing 20 x means we haven't a clue how long the project takes when we do it, also it can hide any tips you give whilst cutting is underway.
I need a spindle square to tram in my milling machine so that I can make this videos spindle square.
Have you ever noticed how you have to make a tool in order to make a tool in order to make a tool? A tool within a tool, within another tool. Toolmaker inception...
My first thought watching this video was buy a DRO buddy...
Yes, that was pretty painful.
Problem making your own if your equipment isn't accurate and you don't have good metrology tools than your well apt to install your arbor off center and if its even a tenth off that will cause inaccuracy as you rotate the spindle each end will alternate up and down (as much as 100 thou or more) making your tool worthless. You'd really need a fixture with a good indicator while you press the arbor in and watch carefully. Personally id never use someones homemade square unless i knew exactly how they made it and watching this method i wouldn't use it. While some things look rather simple and the initial construct looks easy and usable these require a good amount of accuracy to make that home builders just don't have available to them. save the time and spend $100 on one that you know is tried and true.
So is step 1 buying a mill thats already trammed?
The thing is though that it doles the drill more when it enters a cut then being in a cute.
Witch is why when you do peck then you make long peck's
Reason for the long chips is that your ether have to meany rpm's or not going fast enough down in the material so that the drill can break the chips ( just like with inserts on the leath's insert tool holder or the mills knife / face mill ( they have that little odd formen peaks to break the chip's. Also called "the chip breaker") ( have gotten 16 hours of education on just how the chip is formen. How and why we break the chips and what temperature that there right on the " cutting end")
This grit paper can wrap your finger around shaft, careful .
Not to sound like a dochebriklet. But isn't this device kind a useless you need two dial indicators and. you can't be sure If your tool is acccurate. The classical way I think is easy enough
Yes and no. Yes - both indicators have to measure identically(not necessary accurately).
For home gamer - it is actually easier and more cost effective to make tramming tool like this, only with one dial indicator.
the tool itself doesn't have to be accurate to set the indicators where they are accurate. You simply use a fixed point to set the indicators both to zero and off you go. I use these all the time. One of the most loved of my toys.
Yeah well sure thing. But You need to fix the two indicators every time unless you are planing to. Sacrifice two indicators just to keep on your tool
Sorry my english is so suck it generally takes about 15 seconds to set the dials using a parallel as your fixed point.
Plus you need to find the two indicators. But the other one is missing cus you where so drunk last night trying to tram your head and got angry so you broke the indicator now you only have one then you need to go buy another indicator. But can't cus your drunk so you need to call your mate to drive you to shop but it closes in 10 minutes so you have no time plus your cat is stuck on your toaster and you need to go save your cat put then your wife starts nagging and you get really angry so you trow the cat at your wife now she trips down and pours hot tee all over hear. You need to drive your wife to hospital and your cat to vet but can't do that cus your drunk. So lets summ this up 2 cases of beer 40$, bill from the vet 300$, Bill from hospital 500$, Fine for driving under the influence 500$ New indicator 100$. USE ONE INDICATOR ONLY!
WD-40 has changed over the years. The formulation is a little different than the original
gbowne1 That make sense It seems a little oiler now.
there is seemingly also different formulations for different countries.
Bill Lewis
That's because it causes cancer in California.
WD 40 is bad for this, cutting fluid you need to use
Tramming off the vise is not accurate for anything. I still dont under stand why people do that. The bed is more representative of the ways.and perpendicular to your z axis
that really freaks me out baby. oh behave
LOL
WD 40 will ruin your rubber on the wheels
The file was backwards yes feed me the troll
Lol
Build Something Cool I watch all your new vids I would love a decent size lathe and mill but it’s to hard to get them where I live. I watch your channel and Abom religiously great material always learning something new
That is NOT how you take out lash.
Clearly accuracy is not of importance! My god anyone else see the run out on the center drill ? I guess that's what u get with cheap Chinese keyless chuck
never good enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!take the time do it right
That is without a doubt the worst sounding bandsaw I’ve ever heard in my life…!!!
Interesting , using an untrammed mill to drill perpendicular holes ? am i missing something ?
I've been wanting one of these... $ being the reason I don't have one until now, so thanks for the idea! For assembly I like to freeze the shaft and oven heat the holder, slip it in and it locks down in a very short time. Thanks again
+HaWK OT
great suggestion