Surely Paul the groove doesn't need to be completely around spindle, in fact I'm sure I've had bikes which just had two scooped out areas for the bolts and that also prevents the spindle rotating if anything comes loose. So basically either with a round file cut two opposing flats or better still if you have a miller use that to cut two scoops the same diameter as the end cap screws. Mind you that fork leg lug was never designed to have such oversized bolts in it and the casting is getting quite thin about them, isn't it.
How about matching a stepped stud ie the end standing proud of the leg reduced in diameter so that you can leave the spindle standard. The spindle clamp may have to be replaced as the stud holes will be too large either sleeve it or new standard cap.
there is no locknut on the linkage arm? - (the bent linkage arm, and from a fleeting glimpse, the cams looked out of sync? as you know, the tls is crap unless sync is spot on. the tls is shiny though;)
@@paulhenshaw4514 nice idea, it would get rid of that welded stop at the same time, I really wouldn`t trust it myself, it might have been welded by the same orang utan
Those fork bolts are 42-5084 - 5/15x26 x 1 7/16 so those look a bit short. I've found the holes are a bit deeper and you can run a blind tap down and use a slightly longer bolt. You can get a 5/16 x 22 helicoil (5/16 BSF) but it all comes down to how big that new thread is. The groove in the spindle doesn't need to go all the way round, you could have 2 slots. Its would be a faff to assemble as you would have to have a few tries to get the spindle/brake plate in the right place but it would be stronger. I'd be inclined to try the slots first and if that proves too tricky to assemble I'd put it up in a lathe. It beggars belief that someone would tap the thread bigger without thinking about the spindle.
A possible solution...reduce the diameter of the thread on each bolt only in the area they occupy between the fork leg and the cap when it is in the installed position. To assemble front wheel to forks, would be necessary to slide the cap and bolts (together) endwise over the axle, then offer the cap/shaft/wheel assembly up to the leg and start up the bolts. A far better solution would be replacement of lower leg with stock unit, complete with original cap/bolts. This solution would allow a decent resolution to that atrocious welding job on the existing leg/lug. That weld looks very questionable...not safe is my guess.
There can't be much left that hasn't been bodged! I know they're not so common and I'm not sure about the availability of Imperial sizes (they are popular in the US so perhaps), might "Timeserts" be an option for the slider end?
As above Maybe replace the fork slider or make some stepped studs with nuts instead of bolts Or instead of turning a groove in that spindle just file or machine a radius either side of the spindle to clear the bolts
Good find. Would have been a shame to take apart the nice wheel it came with. As for the spindle groove, any benefit to just shaving off metal right where the bolts pass and not 360 degree around the spindle? Would leave more meat on the spindle for strength and the spindle does not rotate in the fork ends.
Anytime I'm taking something apart and thinking "why the hell did the previous owner do that"....I usually find out the "why" on reassembly. And it's rarely good. I put a crack in the bottom of a beautiful 1964 650 gas tank because someone stripped the mounting holes on the bottom then tapped them to a bigger size and used the incorrect style hardware store bolts. Being new to old motorcycles I didn't know the correct bolts had about 5 threads and a big shoulder so they couldn't be screwed in far enough to contract the bottom of the tank. After putting the tank back on one morning, I over tightened one of the bolts and gas started leaking out. I was not happy. I realized that over doing that bolt could create problems, so I was pretty careful with it. I think over years of having those incorrect bolts, it didn't take much to finally put a small crack in it.
It's a reasonable 'workaround'. Bsa should've factored in a safety margin on components anyway so eating into that factor by a judicious amount will be ok.
Can't you just round file deeper at the two points just to allow the bolts clearance? That means there's more metal left on the spindle but of course the cap will only fit at one position.
Easy enough to make a threaded insert out of steel bar and return the to the original bolt size. In fact you can drill out the existing bolts and tap them out to 5/16 cycle. Chop them off Loctite them in and jobs a goodun.
You will still need to use a stepped bolt or replace the cap of course. Makes you wonder what other degradations and obscenities have been done out of sight. It also drives home how unwise it is to stick your name all over something as he might not be responsible for the butchery, but it's certainly his name that is going to be remembered.
Could studs not be fitted into helicoil and remove a little bit of the studs then use nuts? Amazing the issues that present themselves when doing” simple” jobs😀
Just file enough for the bolts to pass in one place (so to speak) and mark the end of the spindle so it gets put back in the right place every time.
G'day Paul, two steps forward one back on this job, hope all works out you'll be glad when it's ready to ride, cheers mate, Neil 🤠.
Well done Paul. The owner can keep the flash looking front brake. Another option could be a replacement/used fork slider??
Excellent work.
Very interesting watching this process
Lovely piece of very cleaver engineering well done Paul. 👍Alan Northern Ireland.
I'd be replacing that fork leg myself but that's just me
not just you buddy! I just picture pointing that bike down a 1in3 hill - there are several in my area.
Just a thought - as the spindle doesn`t move in the clamp could you not just notch the groove on either side so that the bolts clear?
Thanks Paul.
All of that modification will give you the licks to start building chopped up custom sleds! Good plan of attack Paul.🤣👍
Surely Paul the groove doesn't need to be completely around spindle, in fact I'm sure I've had bikes which just had two scooped out areas for the bolts and that also prevents the spindle rotating if anything comes loose. So basically either with a round file cut two opposing flats or better still if you have a miller use that to cut two scoops the same diameter as the end cap screws. Mind you that fork leg lug was never designed to have such oversized bolts in it and the casting is getting quite thin about them, isn't it.
can you not use stepped studs
Yes my thoughts exactly 👍👍
Yes, good idea.
Yes, a replacement fork slider would be best option!
it gets my vote!
How about matching a stepped stud ie the end standing proud of the leg reduced in diameter so that you can leave the spindle standard. The spindle clamp may have to be replaced as the stud holes will be too large either sleeve it or new standard cap.
That will save relacing the wheel too.
there is no locknut on the linkage arm? - (the bent linkage arm, and from a fleeting glimpse, the cams looked out of sync? as you know, the tls is crap unless sync is spot on. the tls is shiny though;)
Stepped stud?
Can’t you get a replacement bottom leg with good threads rather than weakening that spindle again?
That is an option I will keep open, if need be.
@@paulhenshaw4514 nice idea, it would get rid of that welded stop at the same time, I really wouldn`t trust it myself, it might have been welded by the same orang utan
Those fork bolts are 42-5084 - 5/15x26 x 1 7/16 so those look a bit short. I've found the holes are a bit deeper and you can run a blind tap down and use a slightly longer bolt. You can get a 5/16 x 22 helicoil (5/16 BSF) but it all comes down to how big that new thread is. The groove in the spindle doesn't need to go all the way round, you could have 2 slots. Its would be a faff to assemble as you would have to have a few tries to get the spindle/brake plate in the right place but it would be stronger. I'd be inclined to try the slots first and if that proves too tricky to assemble I'd put it up in a lathe. It beggars belief that someone would tap the thread bigger without thinking about the spindle.
Thanks - at a guess, I think the holes and bolts are now 3/8 cycle thread.
A possible solution...reduce the diameter of the thread on each bolt only in the area they occupy between the fork leg and the cap when it is in the installed position. To assemble front wheel to forks, would be necessary to slide the cap and bolts (together) endwise over the axle, then offer the cap/shaft/wheel assembly up to the leg and start up the bolts. A far better solution would be replacement of lower leg with stock unit, complete with original cap/bolts. This solution would allow a decent resolution to that atrocious welding job on the existing leg/lug. That weld looks very questionable...not safe is my guess.
The 7 inch brake was used on the 500 triumph the 650 used the 8 inch.
paul if your a bit miffed about changing spindle, change the fork slider that is the problem.
There can't be much left that hasn't been bodged! I know they're not so common and I'm not sure about the availability of Imperial sizes (they are popular in the US so perhaps), might "Timeserts" be an option for the slider end?
Ok, loads better than the previous nightmare.
As above
Maybe replace the fork slider or make some stepped studs with nuts instead of bolts
Or instead of turning a groove in that spindle just file or machine a radius either side of the spindle to clear the bolts
Good suggestion
Just mill, or file two flats where the screws fit, that should do the trick.
Good find. Would have been a shame to take apart the nice wheel it came with.
As for the spindle groove, any benefit to just shaving off metal right where the bolts pass and not 360 degree around the spindle? Would leave more meat on the spindle for strength and the spindle does not rotate in the fork ends.
Stepped studs? That’d work and be a proper repair
Anytime I'm taking something apart and thinking "why the hell did the previous owner do that"....I usually find out the "why" on reassembly. And it's rarely good. I put a crack in the bottom of a beautiful 1964 650 gas tank because someone stripped the mounting holes on the bottom then tapped them to a bigger size and used the incorrect style hardware store bolts. Being new to old motorcycles I didn't know the correct bolts had about 5 threads and a big shoulder so they couldn't be screwed in far enough to contract the bottom of the tank. After putting the tank back on one morning, I over tightened one of the bolts and gas started leaking out. I was not happy. I realized that over doing that bolt could create problems, so I was pretty careful with it. I think over years of having those incorrect bolts, it didn't take much to finally put a small crack in it.
That's a job which should be given back to the owner to complete.....
The twin leader would be my preference. Couldn't you screw a blank plug into the fork leg and then drill and tap it?
Stepped studs and two nuts?
When you think you have seen everything on an old bike that is new.
It's a reasonable 'workaround'. Bsa should've factored in a safety margin on components anyway so eating into that factor by a judicious amount will be ok.
Can't you just round file deeper at the two points just to allow the bolts clearance?
That means there's more metal left on the spindle but of course the cap will only fit at one position.
Use a timesert paul
👍Paul 👍
I understand fitting a2ls brake but why not fit a 8 “ twin leader as A10 had 8” drums must have picked it up cheap
I thought stepped stud but 10 thou off in the lathe requires no purchase of hardware
Easy enough to make a threaded insert out of steel bar and return the to the original bolt size. In fact you can drill out the existing bolts and tap them out to 5/16 cycle. Chop them off Loctite them in and jobs a goodun.
You will still need to use a stepped bolt or replace the cap of course. Makes you wonder what other degradations and obscenities have been done out of sight. It also drives home how unwise it is to stick your name all over something as he might not be responsible for the butchery, but it's certainly his name that is going to be remembered.
But wait, there's more? Hopefully not to much.
Could studs not be fitted into helicoil and remove a little bit of the studs then use nuts? Amazing the issues that present themselves when doing” simple” jobs😀
I would do it on the mill.1 cut each side...Done....